View Full Version : Fremont A's??
TJH1923
08-17-2008, 07:05 PM
A's getting an F
Just when it appeared Billy Beane's overhaul of the A's roster with parcels of blue-chip prospects for pitchers Dan Haren and Rich Harden and outfielder Nick Swisher had the team headed for a bright new future, things couldn't be bleaker in Oakland again. The season-ending shoulder injury to third base staple Eric Chavez and outfielder Ryan Sweeney's thumb injury have decimated the A's lineup and, at 4-22 since the All-Star break, they are on pace to surpass their 1943 Philadelphia A's ancestors' worst-ever second-half record of 15-61 (.197). Even more troubling is growing pessimism, between the failing economy and collapse of the real-estate market, about co-owner Lew Wolff's grand plan to move the A's down the 880 freeway to a new ballpark community in Fremont.
Above is an excerpt by Bill Madden of the NY Daily News in Sunday's paper
(8/17/08).
I thought the A's ballpark plans were a done deal. Is this deal about to fall through?
mandrake
08-17-2008, 10:17 PM
A's getting an F
Just when it appeared Billy Beane's overhaul of the A's roster with parcels of blue-chip prospects for pitchers Dan Haren and Rich Harden and outfielder Nick Swisher had the team headed for a bright new future, things couldn't be bleaker in Oakland again. The season-ending shoulder injury to third base staple Eric Chavez and outfielder Ryan Sweeney's thumb injury have decimated the A's lineup and, at 4-22 since the All-Star break, they are on pace to surpass their 1943 Philadelphia A's ancestors' worst-ever second-half record of 15-61 (.197). Even more troubling is growing pessimism, between the failing economy and collapse of the real-estate market, about co-owner Lew Wolff's grand plan to move the A's down the 880 freeway to a new ballpark community in Fremont.
Above is an excerpt by Bill Madden of the NY Daily News in Sunday's paper
(8/17/08).
I thought the A's ballpark plans were a done deal. Is this deal about to fall through?
Apologies to any A's fans, but they should never have moved to Oakland in 1968. An argument can be made for the move to KC in 1955, but Oakland never seemed to be a up to the task. When they had great teams, the owner still said that "the city can't even get a world series parade right". I believe they should move to NJ.
From what I have heard, the proposed park in Fremont or wherever may be the smallest in MLB.
Yankees2k6
08-17-2008, 10:18 PM
There are so much "Tree Huggers" In the Bay Area.
BiZmaRK
08-17-2008, 10:27 PM
Apologies to any A's fans, but they should never have moved to Oakland in 1968. An argument can be made for the move to KC in 1955, but Oakland never seemed to be a up to the task. When they had great teams, the owner still said that "the city can't even get a world series parade right". I believe they should move to NJ.
From what I have heard, the proposed park in Fremont or wherever may be the smallest in MLB.
If the A's had never moved to Oakland in the late '60s, what city would have been awarded an expansion team in lieu of the Royals?
Has anyone thought if it is really to the advantage of the A's to rename the team 'Fremont' if they do indeed move to a new ballpark in Fremont?
Aviator_Frank
08-18-2008, 07:04 AM
How about the Bay Area A's. Then when they play the Angels the Fox scorestrip on the top of the TV picture could read BAA vs LAA
TJH1923
08-18-2008, 07:12 AM
Is the ballpark project on the verge of falling through or is the project a done deal?
PeteU
08-18-2008, 07:55 AM
There are so much "Tree Huggers" In the Bay Area.
What the hell does that have to do with the price of eggs?
PeteU
08-18-2008, 08:03 AM
If the A's had never moved to Oakland in the late '60s, what city would have been awarded an expansion team in lieu of the Royals?
Has anyone thought if it is really to the advantage of the A's to rename the team 'Fremont' if they do indeed move to a new ballpark in Fremont?
Perhaps Toronto? I heard they had long been seeking to get a major league team prior to 1977.
I don't like the team being named after Fremont. It gives off a minor league vibe. While actually a pretty large city of 240,000, it still has that suburban nowhere feel to it (that similarly plagues anywhere a team would play in New Jersey). While I don't think that would stop the A's from building a ballpark there, I don't think they would want to name themselves after that city, either.
Bay Area A's makes some sense, but is kind of clunky. Personally, I like Northern California A's. Pretty straight forward and to the point.
six4three
08-18-2008, 08:06 AM
Is the ballpark project on the verge of falling through or is the project a done deal?
It is most emphatically not a done deal.
There are, I believe, environmental studies yet to be completed (which may have been the source of Yankees2k6' inane comment, as though these studies are somehow exclusive to California and weren't performed for the new Yankee Stadium).
Until they are complete, nothing is a done deal. The stadium plan could collapse for any number of reasons unrelated to the environmental studies - say, the financing could fall through.
six4three
08-18-2008, 08:09 AM
Perhaps Toronto? I heard they had long been seeking to get a major league team prior to 1977.
Goes back farther than that - Toronto was one of the places O'Malley threatened to move the Dodgers in 1958 when it appeared that the Chavez Ravine plan would fall through and he wasn't going to get his free LA real estate.
Has anyone thought if it is really to the advantage of the A's to rename the team 'Fremont' if they do indeed move to a new ballpark in Fremont?
Yeah, they can name them something similarly idiotic as the Angels:
The Oakland Athletics of Fremont
Goes back farther than that - Toronto was one of the places O'Malley threatened to move the Dodgers in 1958 when it appeared that the Chavez Ravine plan would fall through and he wasn't going to get his free LA real estate.
Toronto was also on the list for a Continental League franchise had that league taken shape. Figure Buffalo, which was a bigger city back then, and Montreal who got a team a few years later would have been in the running. Actually, if Montreal was in the AL it could have set up a nice rivalry between the two cities and helped keep that franchise afloat...
wvkeeper
08-18-2008, 10:49 AM
Maybe they will be moved to Sacramento/Portland/Vegas/Boise/Salt Lake City/Tacoma/Vancouver/Eugene/Spokane/ or San Jose...
:rofl:
six4three
08-18-2008, 11:35 AM
Has anyone thought if it is really to the advantage of the A's to rename the team 'Fremont' if they do indeed move to a new ballpark in Fremont?Yeah, they can name them something similarly idiotic as the Angels:
The Oakland Athletics of Fremont
That joke hasn't been funny since 2005.
Actually, strike that. It was never funny.
DiggerODell
08-18-2008, 11:41 AM
I would think the logical name IF they ever move to Freemont would be:
Golden State Athletics (A's).
It's worked pretty good for the Warriors.
Lafferty Daniel
08-18-2008, 11:51 AM
I still think it would be in the A's best interest to move to San Jose. (although I'm sure the Giants would fight it)
That joke hasn't been funny since 2005.
Actually, strike that. It was never funny.
Who said I was joking? It is idiotic.
I still think it would be in the A's best interest to move to San Jose. (although I'm sure the Giants would fight it)
For whatever reason San Jose has been determined to be Giants territory. I wonder how when you had two teams in one Metropolitan area, and for decades they were only 3 miles apart how one gets certain suburbs over the other.
six4three
08-18-2008, 03:14 PM
Who said I was joking? It is idiotic.
Yes, we know it. We all get it.
Even Moreno, who desperately needs the LA name but was forced to keep Anaheim out of a contractual obligation, knows it. Soon as he's free he'll drop "of Anaheim" and be done with it.
It's a bad name. It's a compromise. The result of a delicate legal balance that satisfies no one. I doubt that the A's would willingly enter into anything like this.
Coach Bombay
08-18-2008, 03:18 PM
Yes, we know it. We all get it.
Even Moreno, who desperately needs the LA name but was forced to keep Anaheim out of a contractual obligation, knows it. Soon as he's free he'll drop "of Anaheim" and be done with it.
It's a bad name. It's a compromise. The result of a delicate legal balance that satisfies no one. I doubt that the A's would willingly enter into anything like this.
So we should just ignore that fact that Angels have a ridiculous name, just to please you?
BiZmaRK
08-18-2008, 03:57 PM
Perhaps Toronto? I heard they had long been seeking to get a major league team prior to 1977.
I don't like the team being named after Fremont. It gives off a minor league vibe. While actually a pretty large city of 240,000, it still has that suburban nowhere feel to it (that similarly plagues anywhere a team would play in New Jersey). While I don't think that would stop the A's from building a ballpark there, I don't think they would want to name themselves after that city, either.
Bay Area A's makes some sense, but is kind of clunky. Personally, I like Northern California A's. Pretty straight forward and to the point.
What is wrong with calling them the Oakland A's after they move to Fremont?
Many sports franchises play in cities that don't bear the team name.
Among them:
Buffalo Bills
Detroit Pistons
New York Jets
New York Giants
Phoenix Coyotes
Ottawa Senators
BiZmaRK
08-18-2008, 03:59 PM
I still think it would be in the A's best interest to move to San Jose. (although I'm sure the Giants would fight it)
The A's should have offered the Giants Barry Zito some two years ago in exchange for the territorial rights to be lifted. I bet the Giants would have gone for it.
BiZmaRK
08-18-2008, 04:00 PM
I would think the logical name IF they ever move to Freemont would be:
Golden State Athletics (A's).
It's worked pretty good for the Warriors.
Why did the Warriors change from San Francisco to Golden State when they crossed the bay? Did the city of San Francisco not allow them to keep the name "San Francisco"? If so, how would that have been to the advantage of the city of San Francisco?
DiggerODell
08-18-2008, 04:19 PM
Why did the Warriors change from San Francisco to Golden State when they crossed the bay? Did the city of San Francisco not allow them to keep the name "San Francisco"? If so, how would that have been to the advantage of the city of San Francisco?
Not being a basketball fan per say and even though I grew up in the bay area, I'm really not qualified to answer your question. To the best of my understanding though, it was the teams decision to rename it "Golden State" to draw a wider fan base in Northern California. I admit, back in '72 or so when the new name took effect, I thought it was kind of hookey but through the years it sort of grew on me (I am sure much like the fans of old Boston Patriots change to New England).
There have been several instance where teams have taken on a regionally recognizable name (Minnesota sports teams, California Angels, Florida Marlins and here where I now reside for 26 years the Colorado Rockies among others) but Golden State and New England are the only ones I can think of right off hand in which the location of a team is more or less a nickname in and of its ownself. Anybody knows any others feel free to correct me on that.
Where ever the A's end up (hopefully still in the bay area or at worst Sacramento) I think "The Golden State A's" would be a fitting name.
placount
08-18-2008, 04:20 PM
So we should just ignore that fact that Angels have a ridiculous name, just to please you?
No we should do it out of respect to everyone who's tired of reading that dead horse being beat.
Lafferty Daniel
08-18-2008, 05:01 PM
For whatever reason San Jose has been determined to be Giants territory. I wonder how when you had two teams in one Metropolitan area, and for decades they were only 3 miles apart how one gets certain suburbs over the other.
Yeah, it makes no sense. Even if you look at a map, San Jose is really on the Oakland "side."
http://www.bayarealuxuryhomes.com/images/SF_Bay_Area_Map.jpg
DiggerODell
08-18-2008, 05:11 PM
Yeah, it makes no sense. Even if you look at a map, San Jose is really on the Oakland "side."
http://www.bayarealuxuryhomes.com/images/SF_Bay_Area_Map.jpg
I never thought I would actually see my hometown on a post here! See that little town on your bay area map called "Benicia" along the Carquinez Strait? Thats were I grew up and resided the first 18 years of my life (middle of map towards the top).
I forget exactly how the Giants came to claim San Jose as part of their territory, but I think it had something to do with them planning to building PacBell back in the late 90's. I reckon "proximity" had little to do with their claim.
Lafferty Daniel
08-18-2008, 05:16 PM
I never thought I would actually see my hometown on a post here! See that little town on your bay area map called "Benicia" along the Carquinez Strait? Thats were I grew up and resided the first 18 years of my life (middle of map towards the top).
I forget exactly how the Giants came to claim San Jose as part of their territory, but I think it had something to do with them planning to building PacBell back in the late 90's. I reckon "proximity" had little to do with their claim.
Nice, I actually grew up in San Francisco and Antioch. Benicia looks like it's in a nice location.
BiZmaRK
08-18-2008, 05:25 PM
Not being a basketball fan per say and even though I grew up in the bay area, I'm really not qualified to answer your question. To the best of my understanding though, it was the teams decision to rename it "Golden State" to draw a wider fan base in Northern California. I admit, back in '72 or so when the new name took effect, I thought it was kind of hookey but through the years it sort of grew on me (I am sure much like the fans of old Boston Patriots change to New England).
There have been several instance where teams have taken on a regionally recognizable name (Minnesota sports teams, California Angels, Florida Marlins and here where I now reside for 26 years the Colorado Rockies among others) but Golden State and New England are the only ones I can think of right off hand in which the location of a team is more or less a nickname in and of its ownself. Anybody knows any others feel free to correct me on that.
Where ever the A's end up (hopefully still in the bay area or at worst Sacramento) I think "The Golden State A's" would be a fitting name.
Why not keep the name Oakland A's? Especially if they remain in the East Bay? Oakland is the anchor city of the East Bay and they would still be drawing from the same general fan base.
And if they are going to change their name, why wait until they move? Why not do it now?
BiZmaRK
08-18-2008, 05:26 PM
Yeah, it makes no sense. Even if you look at a map, San Jose is really on the Oakland "side."
http://www.bayarealuxuryhomes.com/images/SF_Bay_Area_Map.jpg
San Jose is no more on the Oakland side than it is on the San Francisco side.
It is, however, closer to Oakland than to San Francisco. But not by much.
BiZmaRK
08-18-2008, 05:27 PM
I never thought I would actually see my hometown on a post here! See that little town on your bay area map called "Benicia" along the Carquinez Strait? Thats were I grew up and resided the first 18 years of my life (middle of map towards the top).
I forget exactly how the Giants came to claim San Jose as part of their territory, but I think it had something to do with them planning to building PacBell back in the late 90's. I reckon "proximity" had little to do with their claim.
Wasn't some famous baseball player from Martinez, right across the Carquinez Strait from you?
DiggerODell
08-18-2008, 05:32 PM
Why not keep the name Oakland A's? Especially if they remain in the East Bay? Oakland is the anchor city of the East Bay and they would still be drawing from the same general fan base.
And if they are going to change their name, why wait until they move? Why not do it now?
You certainly make me regret not having qualified my previous posts on the topic. I agree 100% Oakland should be the first choice so long as you say they stay in the East Bay region. It appears that most folks tend to think that won't occur and myself, no longer living in the bay area, have no clue what the skinny is on that subject.
But you make a fabulous observation! I agree, if the A's tended to want to change their name in regard to a move, why not do it before hand. Perhaps they think it would be construed as presumptuous of actually remaining in the bay area? Not sure. Excellent point though and well taken.
mitch300
08-18-2008, 05:41 PM
Wasn't some famous baseball player from Martinez, right across the Carquinez Strait from you?
Joe Dimaggio use to dock his boat in Martinez. Also the city next to Benicia is the home of CC Sabathia, Jeff Gordon,Bill Buckner, Tug Mcgraw, and Linebacker for the Steelers his last name was lloyd.
DiggerODell
08-18-2008, 05:55 PM
Joe Dimaggio use to dock his boat in Martinez. Also the city next to Benicia is the home of CC Sabathia, Jeff Gordon,Bill Buckner, Tug Mcgraw, and Linebacker for the Steelers his last name was lloyd.
Thanks for bringing that information to light! . . . Vallejo is actually the city I was born.
DiggerODell
08-18-2008, 05:59 PM
Wasn't some famous baseball player from Martinez, right across the Carquinez Strait from you?
Joe DiMaggio was born in the town in 1914. DiMaggio was the eighth of nine children born to Sicilian immigrants, delivered by a midwife identified on his birth certificate as Mrs. J. Pico. His mother, Rosalia, named him "Giuseppe" after his father; "Paolo" was in honor of Saint Paul, Giuseppe's favorite saint. The family moved to San Francisco when Joe was one year old.
mitch300
08-18-2008, 06:06 PM
I forgot Kevin Dean who went to Hogan High was the #1 draft pick of the Expos I think it was early 80's. He never made it to the big show.
Cubs1945
08-18-2008, 08:30 PM
Without San Jose I don't see the A's being any more than a small market team. The Coliseum is a dump not fit for baseball with the Raiders there. The Giants are the dominant team economically in the bay area. Bud Selig said if he was commish in 1968 he wouldn't have let the A's move there. Portland, Las Vegas or a return to Philadelphia would be better than staying where they are at.
Tony19
08-18-2008, 09:12 PM
Apologies to any A's fans, but they should never have moved to Oakland in 1968. An argument can be made for the move to KC in 1955, but Oakland never seemed to be a up to the task. When they had great teams, the owner still said that "the city can't even get a world series parade right". I believe they should move to NJ.
From what I have heard, the proposed park in Fremont or wherever may be the smallest in MLB.
If there is a third team in the NY/NJ area, I think I'll kill myself. Let's get another Canadian team or something...
Knick9
08-18-2008, 11:57 PM
Whatever Wolff is supposedly smoking when it comes to this certain issue, he needs to stop. I just don't see this turning out good at all. In fact, I see this push for help in Fremont is gonna lead to something ugly. I don't know what, but I get that odd feeling.
Fremont is a mirage and a pipedream, nothing more. Portland, San Antonio, and Virginia (maybe) say "hello."
BiZmaRK
08-19-2008, 12:05 AM
Joe Dimaggio use to dock his boat in Martinez. Also the city next to Benicia is the home of CC Sabathia, Jeff Gordon,Bill Buckner, Tug Mcgraw, and Linebacker for the Steelers his last name was lloyd.
I couldn't remember if DiMaggio grew up in Martinez or San Francisco.
Interesting observation about Jeff Gordon. How old was he when his family moved from Vallejo to Indiana?
Bill Buckner went to high school in Napa
CC Sabathia went to high school in Vallejo
You're probably talking about Greg Lloyd. I don't know where he went to high school.
Jermaine Dye went to high school in Vacaville
Aaron Miles went to high school in Antioch
Broderick Perkins (formerly of the Padres) went to high school somewhere in that area.
Jim Turner (former kicker for Jets & Broncos) went to high school in Crockett.
We need a special thread for this.
http://www.baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?p=1287307#post1287307
BiZmaRK
08-19-2008, 12:08 AM
Without San Jose I don't see the A's being any more than a small market team. The Coliseum is a dump not fit for baseball with the Raiders there. The Giants are the dominant team economically in the bay area. Bud Selig said if he was commish in 1968 he wouldn't have let the A's move there. Portland, Las Vegas or a return to Philadelphia would be better than staying where they are at.
If the Giants were smart, they would let the A's play at AT&T Park. Not only could they make a ton of money off the A's, but it would send a message around that the A's aren't worthy of even their own stadium.
PeteU
08-19-2008, 06:54 AM
Fremont is a mirage and a pipedream, nothing more. Portland, San Antonio, and Virginia (maybe) say "hello."
With what money? And in San Antonio and Virginia (where? Norfolk-VA Beach? Richmond? NOVA?), what venues?
PeteU
08-19-2008, 06:58 AM
If the Giants were smart, they would let the A's play at AT&T Park. Not only could they make a ton of money off the A's, but it would send a message around that the A's aren't worthy of even their own stadium.
And they could probably challenge Wayne Huzienga and the Dolphins for the worst lease of a MLB stadium in the league.
With what money? And in San Antonio and Virginia (where? Norfolk-VA Beach? Richmond? NOVA?), what venues?
Northern VA is out now that the Nationals exist in DC. But other cities are out there. San Antonio has a AA stadium that holds 9,500 but you can temporarily expand it to 20K in a pinch or retrofit the Alamodome until a full time stadium is built. Portland has a 20K minor AAA facility, so if you sell that out you still outdraw the Marlins or A's.
As for what money the same that every city uses to finance a new park.
PeteU
08-19-2008, 07:38 AM
Northern VA is out now that the Nationals exist in DC. But other cities are out there. San Antonio has a AA stadium that holds 9,500 but you can temporarily expand it to 20K in a pinch or retrofit the Alamodome until a full time stadium is built. Portland has a 20K minor AAA facility, so if you sell that out you still outdraw the Marlins or A's.
As for what money the same that every city uses to finance a new park.
"Expand it in a pinch" probably means $50 million at a very bare minimum. And the Alamodome is simply not practical to retrofit for baseball--to make it even remotely baseball ready it would probably cost at least half as much as it costs to build a new stadium. Unless you are up for 190 foot foul lines.
As for Portland, PGE Park works fine for a temporary venue only if financing and a timetable for a new stadium is already in place. Stick a team in there with questions as to whether funding for a new park gets approved, and the process drags out indefinitely, and you are simply robbing Peter to pay Paul if you think moving to Portland is going to resolve another team's bad stadium situation.
A question to you: Why was Washington DC considered the only realistic place to move the Expos, even considering the fact that Peter Angelos was going to fight tooth and nail against the move?
Finally, the money question is so much incredibly easier said than done. Until any city or state government actually puts a realisitic funding proposal on the table, everything else is mere fantasy speculation.
giantsrule
08-19-2008, 03:15 PM
Yeah, it makes no sense. Even if you look at a map, San Jose is really on the Oakland "side."
http://www.bayarealuxuryhomes.com/images/SF_Bay_Area_Map.jpg
there goes where i grew up, daly city, right on the SF border...
mitch300
08-19-2008, 04:43 PM
I couldn't remember if DiMaggio grew up in Martinez or San Francisco.
Interesting observation about Jeff Gordon. How old was he when his family moved from Vallejo to Indiana?
You're probably talking about Greg Lloyd. I don't know where he went to high school.
Jermaine Dye went to high school in Vacaville
http://www.baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?p=1287307#post1287307
I believe Gordon went ot Indiana around 11-12 years old. But that's a guess.
Yes Greg LLoyd was the Guy.
One day I was at the batting cages at Scandia in Cordelia and I see Willie Mcgee hitting in the fastest pitching cage (80 mph). It was real cool being that close to a major leagie player watching him hit. It was in the off season and he lived in Richmond and the cages were broken so he came to Cordelia.