UQFC - Top 61-80 Candidates

[BlueBlood]

Welcome to the fourth block of twenty names of eligible Cooperstown candidates not in the Hall of Fame.

Here are the top sixty names that this lengthy series of polls and lists has resulted in:

This Project's Top 60 Candidates For The Hall Of Fame

1. Ron Santo
2. Bert Blyleven
3. Tim Raines
4. Dick Allen
5. Bill Dahlen
6. Minnie Minoso
7. Alan Trammell
8. Paul Hines
9. Ted Simmons
10. Deacon White
11. Sherry Magee
12. Bobby Grich
13. Mark McGwire
14. Joe Gordon
15. Ross Barnes
16. Joe Torre
17. Dale Murphy
18. Stan Hack
19. Andre Dawson
20. Harry Stovey
21. Lou Whitaker
22. Charlie Bennett
23. Larry Doyle/Wes Ferrell/Carl Mays
26. Bob Caruthers/Darrell Evans
28. Joe Start
29. Bill Freehan
30. Vern Stephens
31. Dave Parker
32. Tony Mullane/George Van Haltren
34. Will Clark
35. Heinie Groh
36. Keith Hernandez
37. Jim Rice
38. Albert Belle
39. Dwight Evans
40. Gil Hodges
41. Ken Boyer
42. George Gore
43. Ezra Sutton
44. Dickey Peace
45. Jack Glasscock
46. Dan Quisenberry
47. Tommy Leach/Cal McVey
49. Cupid Childs
50. Wilbur Cooper
51. Jimmy Sheckard
52. Charlie Keller
53. Pete Browning/Graig Nettles
55. Gavvy Cravath/Jimmy Ryan
57. Jim Kaat
58. Wally Schang
59. Bobby Bonds
60. Wally Berger

Pitcher:

1. Bert Blyleven
2. Wes Ferrell/Carl Mays
4. Bob Caruthers
5. Tony Mullane
6. Dan Quisenberry
7. Wilbur Cooper
8. Jim Kaat

First Base:

1. Dick Allen
2. Mark McGwire
3. Joe Start
4. Will Clark
5. Keith Hernandez
6. Gil Hodges
7. Cal McVey

Second Base:

1. Bobby Grich
2. Joe Gordon
3. Ross Barnes
4. Lou Whitaker
5. Larry Doyle
6. Cupid Childs

Shortstop:

1. Bill Dahlen
2. Alan Trammell
3. Vern Stephens
4. Dickey Pearce
5. Jack Glasscock

Third Base:

1. Ron Santo
2. Deacon White (also see Catcher)
3. Stan Hack
4. Darrell Evans
5. Heinie Groh
6. Ken Boyer
7. Ezra Sutton
8. Tommy Leach
9. Graig Nettles

Catcher:

1. Ted Simmons
2. Deacon White (also see Third Base)
3. Joe Torre
4. Charlie Bennett
5. Bill Freehan
6. Wally Schang

Left Field:

1. Tim Raines
2. Minnie Minoso
3. Sherry Magee
4. Harry Stovey
5. Jim Rice
6. Albert Belle
7. Jimmy Sheckard
8. Charlie Keller

Center Field:

1. Paul Hines
2. Dale Murphy
3. George Van Haltren
4. George Gore
5. Pete Browning
6. Jimmy Ryan
7. Wally Berger

Right Field:

1. Andre Dawson
2. Dave Parker
3. Dwight Evans
4. Gavvy Cravath
5. Bobby Bonds

[BlueBlood]

For the following names, vote either "Yes" "No" or "Maybe" in response to whether or not you feel they are deserving of Cooperstown acknowledgment.

This Week's Ballot:

Tommy Bridges
George J Burns
Mike Donlin
Bob Elliott
Frank Howard
Tommy John
Bob Johnson
Fielder Jones
Herman Long
Thurman Munson
Don Newcombe
Tony Oliva
Urban Shocker
Reggie Smith
Lee Smith
Luis Tiant
Bobby Veach
Mickey Vernon
Bucky Walters
Jim Wynn

[BlueBlood]

Tommy Bridges - No
George J Burns - No
Mike Donlin - No
Bob Elliott - No
Frank Howard - No
Tommy John - No
Bob Johnson - No
Fielder Jones - No
Herman Long - Maybe
Thurman Munson - Maybe
Don Newcombe - Maybe
Tony Oliva - No
Urban Shocker - Maybe
Reggie Smith - No
Lee Smith - No
Luis Tiant - Maybe
Bobby Veach - No
Mickey Vernon - No
Bucky Walters - Yes
Jim Wynn - No

[jjpm74]

Tommy Bridges No
George J Burns No
Mike Donlin No
Bob Elliott Maybe
Frank Howard No
Tommy John No
Bob Johnson No
Fielder Jones Maybe
Herman Long Maybe
Thurman Munson Maybe
Don Newcombe Yes
Tony Oliva No
Urban Shocker Maybe
Reggie Smith No
Lee Smith Maybe
Luis Tiant No
Bobby Veach No
Mickey Vernon No
Bucky Walters Maybe
Jim Wynn No

[dgarza]

Tommy Bridges - YES
George J Burns - YES
Mike Donlin - YES
Bob Elliott - YES
Frank Howard - MAYBE
Tommy John - NO
Bob Johnson - YES
Fielder Jones - NO
Herman Long - NO
Thurman Munson - NO
Don Newcombe - NO
Tony Oliva - YES
Urban Shocker - MAYBE
Reggie Smith - MAYBE
Lee Smith - YES
Luis Tiant - NO
Bobby Veach - YES
Mickey Vernon - MAYBE
Bucky Walters - YES
Jim Wynn - NO

[leecemark]

Tommy Bridges -maybe
George J Burns - no
Mike Donlin - no
Bob Elliott - maybe
Frank Howard - no
Tommy John - maybe
Bob Johnson - maybe
Fielder Jones - no
Herman Long - maybe
Thurman Munson - maybe
Don Newcombe - maybe
Tony Oliva - maybe
Urban Shocker - maybe
Reggie Smith - no
Lee Smith - no
Luis Tiant - maybe
Bobby Veach - no
Mickey Vernon - no
Bucky Walters - maybe
Jim Wynn - maybe

--Well we've reached the point where I have no unqualified "yeses". Some of the maybe are stronger than others though. Bridges, Munson and Wynn are on my current BBFHoF ballot. Long I'm currrently voting for in the Progressive Hall of Fame project. I could be talked out of any of them though.

[jalbright]

Tommy Bridges--no
George J Burns--no
Mike Donlin--no
Bob Elliott--no
Frank Howard--no
Tommy John--np
Bob Johnson--no
Fielder Jones--no
Herman Long--yes
Thurman Munson--no
Don Newcombe--no
Tony Oliva--no
Urban Shocker--no
Reggie Smith--no
Lee Smith--no
Luis Tiant--no
Bobby Veach--no
Mickey Vernon--no
Bucky Walters--yes
Jim Wynn--no

[Brad Harris]

Tommy Bridges--yes
George J Burns--no
Mike Donlin--no
Bob Elliott--yes
Frank Howard--no
Tommy John--np
Bob Johnson--yes
Fielder Jones--no
Herman Long--yes
Thurman Munson--no
Don Newcombe--no
Tony Oliva--yes
Urban Shocker--no
Reggie Smith--no
Lee Smith--no
Luis Tiant--no
Bobby Veach--no
Mickey Vernon--yes
Bucky Walters--yes
Jim Wynn--yes

[jjpm74]

Tommy John--np



Tommy John--np


:confused:

What is np? Is it some kind of special ranking? :shhh::rofl:

[BlueBlood]

Wow. I thought it was a mind blowing coincidence, then I realized Classic copied Jim's ballot before editing. :rofl:

[henrich]

Tommy Bridges-maybe
George Burns-no
Mike Donlin-no
Bob Elliot-maybe
Frank Howard-no
Tommy John-yes
Bob Johnson-maybe
Fielder Jones-no
Herman Long-no
Thurman Munson-maybe
Don Newcombe-no
Tony Oliva-no
Urban Shocker-no
Reggie Smith-maybe
Lee Smith-yes
Luis Tiant-yes
Bobby Veach
Mickey Vernon-maybe
Bucky Walters-yes
Jimmy Wynn-no

[jalbright]

:confused:

What is np? Is it some kind of special ranking? :shhh::rofl:

bad typing--going one key to the left on the second letter

[Paul Wendt]

bold - yes
underline - maybe
plain - no

Tommy Bridges
George J Burns
Mike Donlin
Bob Elliott
Frank Howard
Tommy John
Bob Johnson
Fielder Jones
Herman Long
Thurman Munson
Don Newcombe
Tony Oliva
Urban Shocker
Reggie Smith
Lee Smith
Luis Tiant
Bobby Veach
Mickey Vernon
Bucky Walters
Jim Wynn

Bucky Walters climbed to Maybe during last week's close look at teammate Paul Derringer (No).

By the way Walters and Reggie Smith are leading contenders for the Hall of Merit this winter.
(2008 election results (http://www.baseballthinkfactory.org/files/hall_of_merit/discussion/2008_results))

Somehow Tommy John and Lee Smith are maybes here although I have not considered voting for them next door at the BBFHOF. Dolf Luque and David Cone are coming up in the same category. Perhaps this is the venue to make up for supporting so few pitchers everywhere else.

[Erik Bedard]

The Paul method.

Tommy Bridges
George J Burns
Mike Donlin
Bob Elliott
Frank Howard
Tommy John
Bob Johnson
Fielder Jones
Herman Long
Thurman Munson
Don Newcombe
Tony Oliva
Urban Shocker
Reggie Smith
Lee Smith
Luis Tiant
Bobby Veach
Mickey Vernon
Bucky Walters
Jim Wynn

[Freakshow]

Tommy Bridges - NO
George J Burns - NO
Mike Donlin - NO
Bob Elliott - M
Frank Howard - NO
Tommy John - M
Bob Johnson - M
Fielder Jones - NO
Herman Long - M
Thurman Munson - NO
Don Newcombe - M
Tony Oliva - NO
Urban Shocker - M
Reggie Smith - M
Lee Smith - NO
Luis Tiant - M
Bobby Veach - M
Mickey Vernon - M
Bucky Walters - M
Jim Wynn - YES

[jjpm74]

For those who consider Jim Wynn a HOFer, I'm curious as to why? I've read the park adjustment argument, but his home/road splits are very similar and even giving him 20 HRs still makes him a mediocre player with marginal MVP consideration and limited All Star appearances.

[Freakshow]

For those who consider Jim Wynn a HOFer, I'm curious as to why? I've read the park adjustment argument, but his home/road splits are very similar and even giving him 20 HRs still makes him a mediocre player with marginal MVP consideration and limited All Star appearances.
It's due to Wynn's production in these 8 seasons, a hall of fame prime:

YEAR AWS WARP3
1965 31 11.7
1967 28 8.6
1968 32 10.4
1969 36 9.7
1970 27 7.8
1972 30 9.2
1974 32 11.1
1975 21 7.3

career 307 94.6


I'd advise against putting much weight on popularity contests like MVP and AS awards.

[BlueBlood]

Everyone's got until Saturday (tomorrow) at 10 PM EST. Then we move on to 81-100.

[BlueBlood]

Closing this early as history has never led to any last minute voters.

Results:

61. Bucky Walters: 6.25 (62.5%)
- (5 Yes, 5 Maybe)

62. Jim Wynn: 3.5 (35%)
- (3 Yes, 2 Maybe)

63. Herman Long: 3.25 (32.5%)
- (2 Yes, 5 Maybe)

64. Bob Elliott: 3 (30%)
- (2 Yes, 4 Maybe)

65. Tommy Bridges/Bob Johnson: 2.75 (27.5%)
- (2 Yes, 3 Maybe)

67. Tony Oliva: 2.5 (25%)
- (2 Yes, 2 Maybe)

68. Lee Smith: 2.25 (22.5%)
- (2 Yes, 1 Maybe)

69. Tommy John/Don Newcombe: 2 (20%)
- (1 Yes, 4 Maybe)

71. Luis Tiant/Mickey Vernon: 1.75 (17.5%)
- (1 Yes, 3 Maybe)

73. Urban Shocker: 1.75 (17.5%)
- (7 Maybe)

74. Bobby Veach: 1.25 (12.5%)
- (1 Yes, 1 Maybe)

75. Reggie Smith: 1.25 (12.5%)
- (5 Maybe)

76. George J Burns/Mike Donlin: 1 (10%)
- (1 Yes)

78. Thurman Munson: 1 (10%)
- (4 Maybe)

79. Frank Howard/Fielder Jones: .5 (5%)
- (2 Maybe)



Ranking Of The Top 80 Candidates Allowing For Upward And Downward Mobility Between Blocs of Candidates:

1. Ron Santo
2. Bert Blyleven
3. Tim Raines
4. Dick Allen
5. Bill Dahlen
6. Minnie Minoso
7. Alan Trammell
8. Paul Hines
9. Ted Simmons
10. Deacon White
11. Sherry Magee
12. Bobby Grich
13. Mark McGwire
14. Joe Gordon
15. Ross Barnes
16. Joe Torre
17. Dale Murphy
18. Stan Hack
19. Andre Dawson
20. Harry Stovey
21. Lou Whitaker
22. Ken Boyer
23. Charlie Bennett
24. Larry Doyle/Carl Mays/Wes Ferrell
27. Bob Caruthers/Darrell Evans
29. Joe Start
30. George Gore/Bucky Walters
32. Ezra Sutton
33. Bill Freehan
34. Vern Stephens
35. Dave Parker
36. Dickey Pearce
37. Jack Glasscock
38. Tony Mullane/George Van Haltren
40. Dan Quisenberry
41. Will Clark
42. Tommy Leach/Cal McVey
44. Heinie Groh
45. Cupid Childs
46. Keith Hernandez
47. Jim Rice
48. Albert Belle
49. Wilbur Cooper
50. Dwight Evans
51. Jimmy Sheckard
52. Jim Wynn
53. Charlie Keller
54. Herman Long
55. Pete Browning/Graig Nettles
57. Bob Elliott
58. Tommy Bridges/Bob Johnson
60. Gil Hodges/Tony Oliva
62. Gavy Cravath/Jimmy Ryan
64. Lee Smith
65. Tommy John/Don Newcombe
67. Jim Kaat
68. Luis Tiant/Mickey Vernon
70. Urban Shocker
71. Wally Schang
72. Bobby Veach
73. Reggie Smith
74. Bobby Bonds
75. George J Burns/Mike Donlin
77. Thurman Munson
78. Wally Berger
79. Frank Howard/Fielder Jones

[leecemark]

--BB, your scoring system seems a little out of balance. 4 maybes (Munson) ought to rank higher than 1 yes (Burns/Donlin). In the case of Donlin my no should be considered more of a "no way!, what are you thinking by even bringing his name up in a Hall of Fame context".

[BlueBlood]

I wanted to gauge actual support. A yes is a yes vote if we were having elections right now. Pretty much all of these "maybe" votes are people we'd consider further down the road but not in the immediate future. A half point just felt like way too much. Should a guy with two people who might possibly consider him in the future rank higher than a guy with an actual supporter?

[leecemark]

--2 maybes, maybe not. 4 definatley yes. My maybe are not neccassarily guys I wouldn't vote for now. Several of them are getting my votes in one project or another as we speak. I'm just not sure that I'd vote for them in an ideaL hall or if I'd be willing to go for bat for them if I had a real vote.