Safeco Field - why does it need a roof?

[BiZmaRK]

From April to September, Seattle gets less days of measurable precipitation and less total precipitation than any of the following cities:
Cleveland, Cincinnati, Detroit, Boston, New York, St. Louis, Philadelphia, Atlanta, Miami, Chicago, Pittsburgh, Washington and Baltimore.
Seattle has a retractable roof on their stadium, but none of the cities mentioned above have retractable roofs on their stadiums. Can someone explain this?

[aqib]

From April to September, Seattle gets less days of measurable precipitation and less total precipitation than any of the following cities:
Cleveland, Cincinnati, Detroit, Boston, New York, St. Louis, Philadelphia, Atlanta, Miami, Chicago, Pittsburgh, Washington and Baltimore.
Seattle has a retractable roof on their stadium, but none of the cities mentioned above have retractable roofs on their stadiums. Can someone explain this?

Because when it rains it pours...

[vpadilla1995]

cuz in seattle it rains sumtimes.

[Yoda]

From April to September, Seattle gets less days of measurable precipitation and less total precipitation than any of the following cities:
Cleveland, Cincinnati, Detroit, Boston, New York, St. Louis, Philadelphia, Atlanta, Miami, Chicago, Pittsburgh, Washington and Baltimore.
Seattle has a retractable roof on their stadium, but none of the cities mentioned above have retractable roofs on their stadiums. Can someone explain this?

Where'd you get your data?

That doesn't seem right.

I had a friend recently move here from seattle and she said that sudden and frequent showers are the norm out there. :shrug:

[Ralf]

When they built Safeco, retractable roofs were in vogue. Dollars to donuts they wouldn't put one in now if they had to do it over.

[Power Wally]

From April to September, Seattle gets less days of measurable precipitation and less total precipitation than any of the following cities:
Cleveland, Cincinnati, Detroit, Boston, New York, St. Louis, Philadelphia, Atlanta, Miami, Chicago, Pittsburgh, Washington and Baltimore.
Seattle has a retractable roof on their stadium, but none of the cities mentioned above have retractable roofs on their stadiums. Can someone explain this?

I don't know for sure, but Seattle might have more total rainfall during the baseball season. On the days it does rain, it rains all day. Therefore, a "rain delay" in another city would be a "rainout" in Seattle.

[mrakbaseball]

Those other cities probably do get more rainfall during the baseball season, but a retractable roof is good thing to have. If a roof will prevent rainouts and delays, why not build one? Even with the roof "extended" at Safeco, it still has an outdoor feel.

[jimmyjimjimz]

From April to September, Seattle gets less days of measurable precipitation and less total precipitation than any of the following cities:
Cleveland, Cincinnati, Detroit, Boston, New York, St. Louis, Philadelphia, Atlanta, Miami, Chicago, Pittsburgh, Washington and Baltimore.
Seattle has a retractable roof on their stadium, but none of the cities mentioned above have retractable roofs on their stadiums. Can someone explain this?

that's just like asking why was kurt cobain so depressed? (besides the fact that his wife was and probably still is a crack addict) It's always raining in Seattle.

[mrakbaseball]

that's just like asking why was kurt cobain so depressed? (besides the fact that his wife was and probably still is a crack addict) It's always raining in Seattle.

Did you not read the first post?

[six4three]

Those other cities probably do get more rainfall during the baseball season, but a retractable roof is good thing to have. If a roof will prevent rainouts and delays, why not build one?

Because they're frigging expensive.

If there's no compelling reason to build one, such as an abnormally high percentage of games affected by weather, then cities shouldn't spring for one.

[Lions/Tigers@Cubs.OhMy!]

I believe, though I have no available data, that Seattle also suffers from the southern miami/marlins problem of it raining some amount almost every day (during certain seasons). Of actual rain, those other cities might get more but that's because when it rains in those cities it pours. In Seattle, even when it's not actually raining, there are a lot of gloomy overcast days with constant mist. Notice they didn't put the Seahawks in a dome. Football can be played (and should be) in that kind of weather climate.

And besides Safeco is an awesome looking retractible dome park... (from the pictures at least, I won't get there until 2011)

[Seattle1]

Two words: opening day 2008.

[DrBear]

There's one thing to remember - the Mariners cover the entire Pacific Northwest. Reality or not, people think of Seattle as rainy and won't drive long distances if they're afraid of a rainout and tickets they can't use.

[BiZmaRK]

There's one thing to remember - the Mariners cover the entire Pacific Northwest. Reality or not, people think of Seattle as rainy and won't drive long distances if they're afraid of a rainout and tickets they can't use.
How can that be a factor? I'm sure the fan base within 50 miles of the Mariners is not much different than the fan base within 50 miles of Pittsburgh or Cincinnati.

Furthermore, if football can be played in the rain, why can't baseball be played in the rain. Not to mention that baseball often is played in the rain.

[Brad MCdonald]

Agreed. We come from Vancouver, BC (with the border ,its about 3 hours) to Safeco. Its really great knowing that the game will be on rain or not.I was at a game in 99 or 2000 when it was raining at game time(pouring actually)..about 2 innings after the start it cleared up and, to the sound of "Here Comes the Sun"
by the Beatles, they opened up the roof..and the crowd went wild! If there was no roof ,based on the heavy rain early that day, the start would have been delayed or outright postponed.You have to live in Washington,BC or Oregon to understand the need for a retractable roof. s

[BiZmaRK]

Agreed. We come from Vancouver, BC (with the border ,its about 3 hours) to Safeco. Its really great knowing that the game will be on rain or not.I was at a game in 99 or 2000 when it was raining at game time(pouring actually)..about 2 innings after the start it cleared up and, to the sound of "Here Comes the Sun"
by the Beatles, they opened up the roof..and the crowd went wild! If there was no roof ,based on the heavy rain early that day, the start would have been delayed or outright postponed.You have to live in Washington,BC or Oregon to understand the need for a retractable roof. s
I was at a game there about three years ago. Up until about 30 minutes before game time, it was heavily overcast with intermittent showers. Then it cleared up and was bright and sunny from about 15 minutes before game time throughout the whole afternoon. Yet they didn't open the roof. The locals explained to me it was because if they start the game with the roof closed, then they are required by MLB rules to keep it shut. Makes no sense to me.

If post season games can be played in the rain, then regular season games should be played in the rain. I'd like to think that baseball players aren't a bunch of sissies like golfers are.

[Seattle1]

What are you talking about BiZmaRK? You can't play baseball in a downpour. A light drizzle, maybe.

[marlins739]

If the Seattle weather is anything like here in South Florida, regardless of the rainfall statistics, it looks like it is going to rain every afternoon in the summer. It's hard to get motivated to drive 3 hours even if it might not be raining at the ballpark at game time. Knowing the game will go on is a nice thing that would help attendance here.

When I was in Seattle in 06, it never stopped raining or misting the whole time I was there. The roof was closed, and we wouldn't have seen a game there if they didn't have the roof

[BiZmaRK]

What are you talking about BiZmaRK? You can't play baseball in a downpour. A light drizzle, maybe.
Yes, you can play in a downpour.

[BiZmaRK]

If the Seattle weather is anything like here in South Florida, regardless of the rainfall statistics, it looks like it is going to rain every afternoon in the summer. It's hard to get motivated to drive 3 hours even if it might not be raining at the ballpark at game time. Knowing the game will go on is a nice thing that would help attendance here.

When I was in Seattle in 06, it never stopped raining or misting the whole time I was there. The roof was closed, and we wouldn't have seen a game there if they didn't have the roof
As I indicated earlier, Seattle gets less days of measurable precipitation and less overall rainfall from April to September than cities such as Cleveland, New York, Baltimore, Atlanta and Detroit.

[Lions/Tigers@Cubs.OhMy!]

Despite being on the margin of the rain shadow of the Olympic Mountains, the city has a reputation for frequent rain.[61] This reputation derives from this frequency of precipitation as well as the fact that it is cloudy an average of 226 days per year (cf. 132 in New York City).[58] Nonetheless, the so-called "rainy city" receives a smaller quantity of actual precipitation annually, at 37.1 inches (94 cm)[62], than New York City, Atlanta, Houston, and most cities of the Eastern Seaboard of the United States. Seattle was also not listed in a study that revealed the 10 Rainiest Cities in the continental United States. [63] Most of the precipitation falls as drizzle or light rain, with only occasional downpours. Spring, late fall, and winter are filled with days when it does not rain but looks as if it might because of cloudy, overcast skies. Winters are cool and wet with average lows around 35–40 °F (2–4 °C) on winter nights. Colder weather can occur, but seldom lasts more than a few days. Summers are dry and warm, with average daytime highs around 73–80 °F (22.2–26.7 °C). Hotter weather usually occurs only during a few summer days. Seattle's hottest official recorded temperature was 100 °F (37.8 °C) on July 20, 1994; the coldest recorded temperature was 0 °F (-18 °C) on January 31, 1950.[62]


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seattle,_Washington

okay, so it doesn't actually rain there that much... I'm still pro-retractible roof if it's done with as much style and class as SafeCo Field... Matter of fact, I still want my Minnesota retractible roof... are you now going to tell me that it's not freezing fricken' cold there and snows nine and half months out of the year?! :eek:
http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh175/rehasty/P1230044_oldseventh.jpg

[Seattle1]

As I indicated earlier, Seattle gets less days of measurable precipitation and less overall rainfall from April to September than cities such as Cleveland, New York, Baltimore, Atlanta and Detroit.

It can rain a lot in April. Also, imagine the Mariners finally make the World Series, and an early storm blows in off the Pacific in October that year. One of those bad storms with lots of rain and wind for several days on end right when the Series is in Seattle for three games. Having the roof just for those three days alone makes the whole thing worth it. Not to mention all the other rain days it prevents from time to time.

And no you really can't play baseball in a downpour. It's dangerous for the batters for one thing because it's a lot harder to see the pitched ball.

[Power Wally]

The Mariners are, by far, the farthest away in average distance from the other teams in baseball. Make up dates wound reak havoc because of this. The leagues like to run a tight schedule, and the TV networks dont have the time for them to dilly-dally around.

They are the closest team to Alaska, Washington, and parts of Oregon, Idaho and Montana, plus a good chunk of Canada. People would be pissed to show up at a rainout.

[BiZmaRK]

The Mariners are, by far, the farthest away in average distance from the other teams in baseball. Make up dates wound reak havoc because of this. The leagues like to run a tight schedule, and the TV networks dont have the time for them to dilly-dally around.

They are the closest team to Alaska, Washington, and parts of Oregon, Idaho and Montana, plus a good chunk of Canada. People would be pissed to show up at a rainout.
Do you think people aren't pissed when they show up for a game in Cincinnati, Atlanta, Baltimore, Philadelphia, Boston or Detroit and the game is postponed due to rain?

[Seattle1]

that's just like asking why was kurt cobain so depressed? (besides the fact that his wife was and probably still is a crack addict)

Did you know it is a myth that Kurt Cobain was depressed? The only person who said that a lot was Courtney Love in the months leading up to his murder. That's because she was calculatingly painting a public picture of him as a depressed, suicidal rocker who could off himself at anytime. Then it came as no surprise when she paid for a professional hit to get rid of him and have it staged to look like a suicide. People thought, 'oh yeah I guess that makes sense,' but in reality it was all manipulative Courtney Love the whole time.

If you're interested in learning more, spend some serious time here:

http://www.cobaincase.com

:lookitup

[DrBear]

Believe me, I've had tickets to see the Brewers play the Red Sox at Fenway and had the game rained out. It's a bummer after going all that way. (I made up for it by going to see John Williams conduct the Boston Pops, which ain't a bad bit of substitute programming.) It's no fun. But I'm just a one-time visitor. Imagine a Mariners fan from Juneau who flies into Seattle at great expense only to get a rainout. He won't come back every year. Or groups that make plans for a long bus trip from Idaho or Oregon. That's one reason Kansas City kept Astroturf in Kaufmann Stadium, and the Reds the same in Riverfront. It's not an absolute but it's something to consider.

At least the Mariners kept it at a roof, not totally enclosing the building.

[BiZmaRK]

Believe me, I've had tickets to see the Brewers play the Red Sox at Fenway and had the game rained out. It's a bummer after going all that way. (I made up for it by going to see John Williams conduct the Boston Pops, which ain't a bad bit of substitute programming.) It's no fun. But I'm just a one-time visitor. Imagine a Mariners fan from Juneau who flies into Seattle at great expense only to get a rainout. He won't come back every year. Or groups that make plans for a long bus trip from Idaho or Oregon. That's one reason Kansas City kept Astroturf in Kaufmann Stadium, and the Reds the same in Riverfront. It's not an absolute but it's something to consider.

At least the Mariners kept it at a roof, not totally enclosing the building.
Who is to say a Red Sox fan won't drive in from Burlington, Vermont at great expense to see a Red Sox game? Or a Braves fan drives in from Wilmington, North Carolina to see a Braves game. Or a Tigers fan drives in all the way from Ishpeming on the upper peninsula to see a Tigers fan. These fans travel great distances to see their teams, but they're not guaranteed a game. Why should fans in the Pacific Northwest be so special?

At least a Twins fan who drives in all the way from Minot, North Dakota will be guaranteed a game.

[Seattle1]

BiZmaRK are you a troll?

[Power Wally]

Do the teams have to get a special permit from the leagues for a retractable roof, or something?

[DGDGBD]

From April to September, Seattle gets less days of measurable precipitation and less total precipitation than any of the following cities:
Cleveland, Cincinnati, Detroit, Boston, New York, St. Louis, Philadelphia, Atlanta, Miami, Chicago, Pittsburgh, Washington and Baltimore.
Seattle has a retractable roof on their stadium, but none of the cities mentioned above have retractable roofs on their stadiums. Can someone explain this?
The seattle mariners decided that they wanted a retractable roof, plus they figured out a way to swing the additional cost. The other cities you mentioned decided, for one reason or another, that they did not want, or could not afford the additional cost for, a retractable roof. Satisfied? Its as simple as that.

[BiZmaRK]

You seem to have a problem with Safeco having a retractable roof. Why? It's not going away. It's a positive addition to the ballpark. A necessity? Probably not, but it's nice to know it's there.
1) It's an eyesore. I've been there. And one time I was there on a bright sunny day and they kept the field covered with the roof.
2) If I'm going to Detroit or Pittsburgh, I'm not guaranteed a game. But if I go to Seattle, I might be guaranteed a game, but it might be "indoors" on a sunny day.

[BiZmaRK]

Do the teams have to get a special permit from the leagues for a retractable roof, or something?
That's a really good question. I remember years ago when there was discussion about doming Candlestick Park because it would get so cold there on dry summer evenings. Would the league have granted that permit?

[BiZmaRK]

BiZmaRK are you a troll?
I don't think you understand the difference between trolling and engaging in a healthy & challenging debate with others with whom you share an interest.

[Seattle1]

....healthy & challenging debate....


:think:


Oohhhhhhkaaayyy...

[Power Wally]

I don't think you understand the difference between trolling and engaging in a healthy & challenging debate with others with whom you share an interest.

Debate about what? Seattle's right to have a roof? If you dont like it, dont go. Nobody is forcing you to go to Safeco Field.

[Sean O]

Debate about what? Seattle's right to have a roof? If you dont like it, dont go. Nobody is forcing you to go to Safeco Field.

"if you don't like it, don't go." Sorry dude, that is the single worst argument given about a wide range of different topics. He doesn't like the roof, and he's discussing it, what's the harm in that?

It seems like the Seattle = roof thing may be based more in subjectivity than reality, and he makes some good points.

[Seattle1]

It seems like the Seattle = roof thing may be based more in subjectivity than reality, and he makes some good points.

Good points? Name one. BiZmaRK asked for what purpose does Safeco Field have a retractable roof, and he has been provided with abundant valid rationale from multiple posters to answer that question. However, he keeps harping on it as if no one has answered his question. That is the sign of a troll.

[PeteU]

I think if the statistics on rain are legitimate, there is an actual issue here.

IMHO, Safeco Field is far and away the most attractive of all the retractable roof ballparks. However, with that being said I think it would be more attractive as a ballpark without the roof for obvious purposes. So Safeco without a roof could probably be in the top tier of new ballparks whereas Safeco with a roof is merely above average.

Not to mention it would have cost a lot less to build Safeco without a roof.

Of course, if the thinking of Seattle/Washington was for Safeco to host other events than just Mariners games, a roof could be justified. Not a Super Bowl, of course, given that Safeco was designed for baseball first and isn't large enough for a Super Bowl, but perhaps a Final Four?

The problem with a Final Four is that given despite the roof there is still exposure to outside elements at Safeco, it wouldn't be the most comfortable of venues for a basketball game. Not to mention the fact that having the roof closed for that amount of time would probably kill the grass.

[cdn_ball]

Bizmark,
the dome can open or close during the course of a game. It's happened atleast 2 to 3 times already this year in toronto.

[BiZmaRK]

Good points? Name one. BiZmaRK asked for what purpose does Safeco Field have a retractable roof, and he has been provided with abundant valid rationale from multiple posters to answer that question. However, he keeps harping on it as if no one has answered his question. That is the sign of a troll.
The statistics on rainfall are correct. As PeteU says, there is room for a legitimate debate.

Some of the responses bear merit. But many raise further issues. Additionally, new people pop in here and want to discuss this - often bringing up new angles on this topic.

Instead of going troll-hunting, why not engage in a discussion about baseball.

[Nat Bailey]

1) It's an eyesore. I've been there. And one time I was there on a bright sunny day and they kept the field covered with the roof.
2) If I'm going to Detroit or Pittsburgh, I'm not guaranteed a game. But if I go to Seattle, I might be guaranteed a game, but it might be "indoors" on a sunny day.

FWIW I've been quite a few times, and I don't feel its an eyesore.
Also they haven't had the roof closed on any sunny days that I've been there, only rainy ones.

[Manhattan]

FWIW I've been quite a few times, and I don't feel its an eyesore.
Also they haven't had the roof closed on any sunny days that I've been there, only rainy ones.I was at only one game at Safeco Field during June 2000 with lots of my relatives in Seattle,WA. during an interleague play game that San Diego Padres beat the Seattle Mariners 7 to 4. There lots of rain up in Seattle,Washington.

[KevinWI]

Retractable roofs rock. Every team should have one.

People who don't like them seem to think it's obvious that they 'suck'.

[PeteU]

Retractable roofs rock. Every team should have one.

People who don't like them seem to think it's obvious that they 'suck'.

Meeh. They're unavoidably ugly, even when the park below the roof is attractive (see Safeco). A retractable roof will undoubtedly take away from the asthetics of the park.

But for the fact that it makes a lot of practical sense given its location, I hate the idea that the new Marlins park is going to have a retractable roof. It automatically means the Marlins won't have the most attractive park in the league. (But don't get me wrong, I'm still glad they are getting a new park.)

[Power Wally]

The beauty of Seattle more than makes up for the "ugliness" of Safeco.

[JohnCropp]

From April to September, Seattle gets less days of measurable precipitation and less total precipitation than any of the following cities:
Cleveland, Cincinnati, Detroit, Boston, New York, St. Louis, Philadelphia, Atlanta, Miami, Chicago, Pittsburgh, Washington and Baltimore.
Seattle has a retractable roof on their stadium, but none of the cities mentioned above have retractable roofs on their stadiums. Can someone explain this?

Umbrellas at ballparks are irritating.

[Yankees12]

Safeco certainly isn't ugly - it's one of the best ballparks today - but I do think it would be made better by a lack of roof.

On the surface, yes, it is obvious why Safeco has a roof - the Mariners figured it would be worth the cost to put it in and decided to spend the extra money to install a retractable roof. But there are underlying issues here that are worthy of discussion, including what drove the Mariners to decide that a roof was worth it. Statistically, they really don't need it any more than a lot of other major league cities that get along fine without a roof.

I do think that the perception of Seattle as extremely rainy fueled much of the desire for a retractable roof (just as it fueled much of the desire for a dome in the 1970s), and teams moving from domes generally want a retractable roof on their next stadium (Houston and Seattle are the two that did, the Twins did not although they initially planned to, and the Rays want a retractable sail on their new park). I'm sure those two things are the main reason Safeco has a roof on it.

The question is, does Safeco Field need a roof? Statistics seem to show that it doesn't need one.

[J.R.]

No park needs a retractable roof. The two markets that truly need indoor baseball, Arizona and Houston, might as well have fixed designs since they play a ridiculously small amount of games with the lids open.

The retractable designs are ugly, and they are a foolish expense in publicly funded stadiums.

[JohnCropp]

No park needs a retractable roof. The two markets that truly need indoor baseball, Arizona and Houston, might as well have fixed designs since they play a ridiculously small amount of games with the lids open.

The retractable designs are ugly, and they are a foolish expense in publicly funded stadiums.

I bet you said the same thing about lights in '88.

[Power Wally]

I dont see how building a retractable roof in the past will come back to bite them in the a.. in the future.

[OBomb]

As someone who lived in Seattle for four years, I can say that Safeco Field really did not need a roof. The Seahawks have done alright next door at Qwest Field for the last 6 years with simply two large canopies covering either grandstand. In fact, the Seahawks went something like three whole season before rain fell during one of their games, and they play at the beginning of the Seattle rainy season.

The only time when Safeco would really need a roof is at the beginning of the season, but because of cold rather than rain. The temperature the first few weeks of April will rarely get above 45 or 50 degrees in the Emerald City, thus necessitating something to at least somewhat reduce the coldness. Even then, Safeco Field's roof acts more like an umbrella, leaving the ballpark exposed to the air temperature outside unlike what is seen in Houston, Arizona, Milwaukee, and Toronto.

One thing that should be mention is that the Mariners have experienced a rain delay since moving into Safeco Field. In a game against the Angels, played in July 2000, I believe, the skies opened up and the game was delayed because the roof malfunctioned and wouldn't move. As a result, the Safeco Field groundskeepers had to run like chickens with their heads cut off to first locate the tarp, then put it on the field. It was truly one of the funniest, most ironic things I've ever seen in my life.

Having said all of that, Safeco Field is probably the most beautiful ballpark I've ever seen. It's retro, but not overdone considering that brick and steel fit in very well with the Pacific Northwest. It's also unique in its food selection, affordable, and just simply nice. For a team that does not have a slew of history in the way of championships and had had trouble keeping superstars (ala Randy Johnson, Ken Griffey, A-Rod, etc), the Mariners really tried hard to give this place some personality and it worked well.

[JohnCropp]

I think the reality is that Safeco Field does not need a roof, but that the Mariners wanted a roof.

Why did they want a roof?

Just in case a family thinks twice about coming to the game because of the weather.

The bottom line is the bottom line. The Seattle Mariners need to provide a comfortable venue for people to go to to watch games. Unlike football which is played a tenth of as many times and in front of a more active and hearty audience, baseball teams need to make it as easy as possible for the casual fan to justify coming to a game.

Charting average rainfall doesn't really apply to this unless you are charting when the rain falls and how it relates to gametime conditions. An all day drizzle is going to affect attendance worse than an hour long down pour because folks know a down pour will pass.

That said, I think the Mariners have great stadium and am so glad that they got out of the Kingdome but not out of Seattle.

... man, I had too much time to think about this.

[Yankees12]

I dont see how building a retractable roof in the past will come back to bite them in the a.. in the future.

It won't, it's just a question of aesthetics, and whether something that isn't really aesthetically pleasing, no matter how well it's done, was necessary given the situation.

[Seattle1]

The Seahawks have done alright next door at Qwest Field for the last 6 years with simply two large canopies covering either grandstand.

I feel the need to point out again that football and baseball are very different sports in that football can and should be played in all types of weather, including rain, sleet, snow, mud, etc. (no mud at Qwest of course but you get the gist). Baseball, by contrast, cannot be played in such conditions.

In light of that, I am glad Qwest is an open-air stadium. A dome for football is sacrelige. And I am satisfied with the retractable roof for Safeco. Thank goodness it wasn't a permanent dome, and that there is a real grass playing field.

[Power Wally]

I kind of like the way that the Safeco and Quest roof structures compliment each other.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/50/Safeco_Field_day.jpg/800px-Safeco_Field_day.jpg

http://bp0.blogger.com/_9IY2B99RZIo/R_Z8JJ4QU7I/AAAAAAAABos/xxSVoyVDpV0/s400/safeco+field.jpg

[J.R.]

I bet you said the same thing about lights in '88.

No, I'd hate to have to play postseason games at USCF. The lights were absolutely necessary.

[Stumanji]

I've lived in the PacNW my entire life and have spent more time at Safeco Field than any other professional venue, hands down.

That said, I really struggle to understand this "eyesore" argument and this "aestheticly pleasing" point. I don't see anything ugly about the roof, how it rests when it's open, or how it looks when it's closed. I've been to a dozen games where the roof was open, and the park was great. I've been to a handful of games where the roof was closed, and the smells of the harbor, with a cool breeze, and seagulls swirling around above the field still made it feel like you're at an outdoor game. I've been to a handful of games where the roof was closed up until the opening ceremonies, and opened for the game.

Then again... Safeco Field is a remarkable beauty compared the inside (and outside, for that matter) of the Kingdome.

(FYI - The roof can be opened during the game (only once), with an inning of advance notice to the Umpire Crew Chief, so long as the visiting team does not appeal the opening of the roof as an advantage to the home club)

Does the field NEED a retractable roof? I say yes. Like many pointed out, an M's game in the northwest isn't something the fans do on a whim. For many people I know, it's a two or three week advanced-notice day long vacation. The last game I went to, I drove 275 miles to see the game, and I'm sure I'm not the only one that put that kind of mileage on my car for a three hour show. I bought tickets two months in advance, made sure I saved up enough money for gas and concessions (I'm not wealthy) for my stay at the park.

That's not to say fans in Cincinnati, Detroit, or any of these other rainy cities don't suffer, as I'm sure many fans have been turned away by rainouts at those parks. I just think, with Seattle representing such a LARGE area of fans, it was a wise investment.

[Chevy114]

I feel like with their past attendence issues that doing whatever it takes to keep fans coming in is a smart move. I hope the rays try to get a retractable roof of some kind when they build a new stadium to help with the summer rain storms just like seattle did.

[BiZmaRK]

Safeco certainly isn't ugly - it's one of the best ballparks today - but I do think it would be made better by a lack of roof.

On the surface, yes, it is obvious why Safeco has a roof - the Mariners figured it would be worth the cost to put it in and decided to spend the extra money to install a retractable roof. But there are underlying issues here that are worthy of discussion, including what drove the Mariners to decide that a roof was worth it. Statistically, they really don't need it any more than a lot of other major league cities that get along fine without a roof.

I do think that the perception of Seattle as extremely rainy fueled much of the desire for a retractable roof (just as it fueled much of the desire for a dome in the 1970s), and teams moving from domes generally want a retractable roof on their next stadium (Houston and Seattle are the two that did, the Twins did not although they initially planned to, and the Rays want a retractable sail on their new park). I'm sure those two things are the main reason Safeco has a roof on it.

The question is, does Safeco Field need a roof? Statistics seem to show that it doesn't need one.

The fact that Seattle has a baseball stadium with a retractable roof only reinforces its image as a wet & rainy city. It is my guess that this has a negative impact on tourism.

[Power Wally]

The fact that Seattle has a baseball stadium with a retractable roof only reinforces its image as a wet & rainy city. It is my guess that this has a negative impact on tourism.

Unitil the rest of the city's attractions sue the Mariners over this, I'm not going to worry about it.

[PeteU]

Just for craps and giggles--what Safeco would look like if it were completely open air.

http://i348.photobucket.com/albums/q344/Tommy_Carcetti/safeco_field.jpg?t=1219693662

[Power Wally]

^^^^ Cool. Now can you make it face Mt Rainier?

[BiZmaRK]

^^^^ Cool. Now can you make it face Mt Rainier?
As long as he is merely photoshopping it, he could move Mt. Rainier to be to the northeast of the ballpark.

[cgcoyne2]

Did you know it is a myth that Kurt Cobain was depressed? The only person who said that a lot was Courtney Love in the months leading up to his murder. That's because she was calculatingly painting a public picture of him as a depressed, suicidal rocker who could off himself at anytime. Then it came as no surprise when she paid for a professional hit to get rid of him and have it staged to look like a suicide. People thought, 'oh yeah I guess that makes sense,' but in reality it was all manipulative Courtney Love the whole time.

If you're interested in learning more, spend some serious time here:

http://www.cobaincase.com

:lookitup


Great, just frickin great. Now you got me hooked on something else. This Cobain thing is crazy, now I'm hooked. Dirty dog....:banghead:

UUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUGGGGGGGGGGGGGG

[Seattle1]

Great, just frickin great. Now you got me hooked on something else. This Cobain thing is crazy, now I'm hooked. Dirty dog....:banghead:

UUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUGGGGGGGGGGGGGG

:D

Sorry, but it had to be said. The guy clearly didn't kill himself, so it pains me whenever I see that myth perpetuated. The weird thing is, that's not unique to Cobain. People are murdered all the time with their murders staged to look like suicides.

If you liked that website, there's also this book:

Love & Death: The Murder of Kurt Cobain (http://www.amazon.com/Love-Death-Murder-Kurt-Cobain/dp/0743484835)

You might be able to check it out of a library near you.

[wildwoodstadium]

I've lived in the Seattle area all my life and Seattle has very cold, wet longsprings. While it doesn't rain hard as often as most places, it's the constant cold rain in the spring that makes it miserable to watch baseball. This spring was awful, but not a lot of rain, but many night games with temps in the 40's and wet.

Also the fact that the Seahawks didn't have rain or other bad weather during games for the first few years was just freakish good luck. I don't know how many times it rained before and after games but not during. Of course last season that came to an end when we had 60mph winds one game and many in the area were without power and couldn't watch the game. Then the snowstorm where many fans didn't make it home until 3 in the morning. There were other bad weather games also. The year before Qwest opened they played in miserable weather at Huskie stadium. They were just lucky!

[raiderjohn]

Try running a comparison with the Twins new park. The biggest thing is that the new park will be open air. Advanced ticket sales will drop, that family of 4 90 minutes a way would be less likely to buy tickets for a late September or early season games. Maybe by year 3-4 see how attendance compares with the Twins now.

[Seattle1]

Yes, you can play in a downpour.


Are you watching tonight's game? Ballgame suspended because of rain.

:twocents:

[SteveJRogers]

Ballparks in the Northeast, and Ohio and Michigan should have retractable roofs!

That's right, even Philly, New York, Boston, etc.

[Mario Mendoza...HOF Lock]

Ballparks in the Northeast, and Ohio and Michigan should have retractable roofs!That's right, even Philly, New York, Boston, etc.

Retractable roofs take away the whole feel of watching a ballgame outside. Not as bad as a dome, but similar in many regards. Philly, NY, Boston and the rest don't need any retractable roofs. Not to mention their fanbase wouldn't appreciate them.

If you took a poll of the cold, wet crowd at CBP tonight, I'd bet my life the majority would say "hell no" to a roof of any kind. You might even get booed for bringing it up.

Retractable roof parks are the new cookie-cutters. Fortunately they can (and all eventually will be) removed, hopefully in our lifetimes. Football and baseball are outside games...elements and all. In my opinion, of course:rant:

[Aviator_Frank]

What else I personally don't like about retractables is the "abuse of the roof priveledges" by the home club - closing it under perfectly sunny days because the players or the television humps don't like the shadows.

How many times have you seen that happen in places like Houston, AZ in April & May and Milwaukee. So instead of basking in 80-degree outdoor glory the baseball fan gets to rot inside under a clamshell dome. No thanks.

Seattle always has the top down unless it's raining; maybe they see so little sun up there they're happy to let it in.

[Astros]

What else I personally don't like about retractables is the "abuse of the roof priveledges" by the home club - closing it under perfectly sunny days because the players or the television humps don't like the shadows.

How many times have you seen that happen in places like Houston, AZ in April & May and Milwaukee. So instead of basking in 80-degree outdoor glory the baseball fan gets to rot inside under a clamshell dome. No thanks.

Seattle always has the top down unless it's raining; maybe they see so little sun up there they're happy to let it in.

In May it is already usually in the 90s in Houston. It goes down into the 70s or upper 60s later at night (9pm on average). April is usually the nicer month and we've played the entire month with the roof open.

[Aviator_Frank]

Didn't they have it closed during the playoffs?

[Astros]

Didn't they have it closed during the playoffs?

Yes. There were a lot of afternoon games and it was still hot outside so they decided to close it. The LCS games were a lot cooler at night and there were some nights when it rained. The preference is to keep the roof open but they also have to consider fan complaints. Yeah, sitting in the sun draws complaints.

[wildwoodstadium]

Seattle always has the top down unless it's raining; maybe they see so little sun up there they're happy to let it in.

I think you nailed it. If it's above 50 and sunny in the spring, people wear shorts.

[boisemarinersfan]

I really like the roof. think it is totally cool and helps make Safeco unique.

[Aviator_Frank]

What's nice about Safeco is that when the roof is retracted it gets the hell out of the way in right field. You have an open-air ballpark remaining in center and left.

Of course the non-sealing, no climate control nature of it probably helps. :)

That has got to be one of the biggest stadium upgrades of all time, from the concrete tomb of the Kingdome to Safeco's green grass and wide open skies. And in mid-season, too, which means there was no waiting for next year when it opened.

[Stumanji]

I think you nailed it. If it's above 50 and sunny in the spring, people wear shorts.

And a t-shirt.
And sunglasses.
And drive with the top down (or windows down).

We cherish the sun on the westside of the state in Washington.

I've been on the Eastern side now for 6 months, and in the summer it was blistering hot. All told, in the time I've been here, it's rained about 10 times.

On the west side, you'd be lucky to see the sun 10 times in 6 months it seems (not that it's raining - just always cloudy).

[TheBeginningWasTheEnd]

The fact that Seattle has a baseball stadium with a retractable roof only reinforces its image as a wet & rainy city. It is my guess that this has a negative impact on tourism.

The whole of Western Washington is wet and rainy, and honestly, tourism does just fine, maybe not compared to California Florida or Hawaii, but it's not like we have a Disney Land or are anywhere near tropical.

The D-Backs have a retractable roof, do you think that makes people think that Phoenix is wet and rainy?

[PhillyFan]

I don't know if this has ever been mentioned but why don't they have a retractible roof which instead of going out to the outfield when open, retract behind home plate? Granted the entrance to home plate would not look as inviting. My reason for this would be while in the park you wouldnt have to look at the roof as it would be behind most of the fans. Just a thought. Having said that....I loved SAFECO...thought it was very unique.

[Dodgeboy]

Actually, when the Twins were still planning on a roof, that's exactly what they were planning. It would have retreated over the third base line and "parked" over the HERC plan to the NW.

Oh yeah, it's would NOT have been climate controlled, just a giant, open sided umbrella, just like Safeco's

[PhillyFan]

I did not know thats what the Twins had tossed around. Just seems like it would make more sense to me to have it behind the fans.

[mrakbaseball]

..........

[mrakbaseball]

There's one thing to remember - the Mariners cover the entire Pacific Northwest. Reality or not, people think of Seattle as rainy and won't drive long distances if they're afraid of a rainout and tickets they can't use.

How can that be a factor? I'm sure the fan base within 50 miles of the Mariners is not much different than the fan base within 50 miles of Pittsburgh or Cincinnati.
.

Agreed. We come from Vancouver, BC (with the border ,its about 3 hours) to Safeco. Its really great knowing that the game will be on rain or not.I was at a game in 99 or 2000 when it was raining at game time(pouring actually)..about 2 innings after the start it cleared up and, to the sound of "Here Comes the Sun"
by the Beatles, they opened up the roof..and the crowd went wild! If there was no roof ,based on the heavy rain early that day, the start would have been delayed or outright postponed.You have to live in Washington,BC or Oregon to understand the need for a retractable roof. s

The beauty of Seattle more than makes up for the "ugliness" of Safeco.

Safeco certainly isn't ugly - it's one of the best ballparks today - but I do think it would be made better by a lack of roof.
The question is, does Safeco Field need a roof? Statistics seem to show that it doesn't need one.

Safeco Field is probably the most beautiful ballpark I've ever seen. It's retro, but not overdone considering that brick and steel fit in very well with the Pacific Northwest. It's also unique in its food selection, affordable, and just simply nice. For a team that does not have a slew of history in the way of championships and had had trouble keeping superstars (ala Randy Johnson, Ken Griffey, A-Rod, etc), the Mariners really tried hard to give this place some personality and it worked well.

40-50% of SAFECO Field's attendance is made up from outside of King County. The Mariners fanbase includes the entire Northwest, Washington, Oregon, Idaho, Montana, Alaska and Western Canada. A roof makes sense. Same reason Royals/Kauffman Stadium had the carpet, the Royals at the time drew crowds from the entire Midwest.

[mrakbaseball]

SAFECO Field's roof was closed, "extended" 21% of the time and 61% of the Mariners' attendance comes from places outside of King County. :reporter:

[Bobby_Ayala]

Why does Safeco need a roof? To guarantee scenes like the one below never occur. In the Mariners' lone trip to NYS, 2 of the 3 games were delayed by rain. I love Safeco's roof.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3617/3676088701_c2a47ac1e6.jpg?v=0
from Baker's Sea. Times blog

[The Korean]

Why does some people think the roof is ugly?

[Rob R]

Why does some people think the roof is ugly?

Maybe because it looks like this? :shrug:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3260/2420597008_997e40b3f8.jpg[/QUOTE]

And makes the exterior look like this? :shrug:

http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w241/fafafooey69/Ugh.jpg
http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w241/fafafooey69/CkXTJL4i.jpg

[muckandgrind]

^^Exactly. Retractable roofs look like giant erector sets. Way too much steel.

While I've never been to Safeco, it appears that it's not the worst of the retractables. I've been to Miller Park and my opinion is that park is awful. There is no "ballpark feel" to it, feels more like a stadium than a ballpark. County Stadium was much nicer.

[Anubis2051]

^^Exactly. Retractable roofs look like giant erector sets. Way too much steel.

While I've never been to Safeco, it appears that it's not the worst of the retractables. I've been to Miller Park and my opinion is that park is awful. There is no "ballpark feel" to it, feels more like a stadium than a ballpark. County Stadium was much nicer.

Not all of them. I love the look of the new marlins park, it seams like they did the retractable roof right. Even the support poles have a modern, classy look. But other than that, yes, your statement is accurate, at least IMHO.

[Power Wally]

Why does Safeco need a roof? To guarantee scenes like the one below never occur. In the Mariners' lone trip to NYS, 2 of the 3 games were delayed by rain. I love Safeco's roof.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3617/3676088701_c2a47ac1e6.jpg?v=0
from Baker's Sea. Times blog
If Safeco didn't have a roof, I would have been looking at something like this last Sunday, when I visited Seattle for the first time in 10 years. The game might have completed, but it was tied in the 6th when the roof closed, and I'm talking about the middle of July.

[UnderPressure]

If I'm not mistaken, 62% of the year, it's cloudy in Seattle.

Out of all the four baseball-only parks with a retractable roof, I'd say Milwaukee has the most unnecessary roof.

[KingmanIII]

If I'm not mistaken, 62% of the year, it's cloudy in Seattle.

Out of all the four baseball-only parks with a retractable roof, I'd say Milwaukee has the most unnecessary roof.
But most of that 62% occurs from mid-autumn to early spring, not during baseball season.

[Zoso]

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c55/ZoSoKarl/Rainfall.jpg

Seattle gets bombed in the winter months, but it's pretty dry in the summer like the rest of the coast. From what I hear, they get a higher rate of cloudy, misty days in the summer, that are just irritating for doing things outdoors even though they aren't totally prohibitive. I've only spent 5 days in Seattle and it was cloudless and pushing 60 the whole time, and this was in Februrary. But that's anecdotal thus I can't really testify, however I'd generally take their weather over Chicago's in a nanosecond.

[Trickyhop]

If Safeco didn't have a roof, I would have been looking at something like this last Sunday, when I visited Seattle for the first time in 10 years. The game might have completed, but it was tied in the 6th when the roof closed, and I'm talking about the middle of July.

It rained last Sunday?

[Trickyhop]

Maybe because it looks like this? :shrug:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3260/2420597008_997e40b3f8.jpg
Quit posting that same piece of crap picture from the same idiot that doesn't know how to take pictures! They took a picture directly into the natural overcast lighting that comes in from the outfield when the roof is extended. Overcast days in Seattle are BRIGHT, and the light coming in from the oufield is killing the light from the indoors at that angle. Ugh.

I can make any stadium look dark and damp using photography.

I personally can't see any way Safeco would have been built without a retractable roof. Builidng the M's a new stadium was voted down by locals in the first place. The team even threatened to move away from Seattle at the time, so a proposed stadium needed as much support as possible, and the roof helped in that area. Seattle has a stigma of being rain soaked 24/7 365 days a year, and as false as that is, people tend to believe it enough that a roof at Safeco was necessary business wise.

[Bobby_Ayala]

If you are going to pay 2009 prices, you should be guaranteed 2009 comfort. Safeco's roof guarantees you'll see a game in dry conditions, NYS offers no such guarantees.

[Rob R]

If you are going to pay 2009 prices, you should be guaranteed 2009 comfort. Safeco's roof guarantees you'll see a game in dry conditions, NYS offers no such guarantees.

You tell 'em, Bobby! And while we're at it, they should tear down all the stores, bars and restaurants in Manhattan--on 5th, Madison, The Village, the Upper West and East Sides, etc., and put up shopping malls in their place! House all those shops in a beautiful structure - maybe mimic the breathtaking exterior of that beautiful palace, Safeco! Why should people have to walk, eat and shop in the rain?!

And then I suggest we put the icing on the cake - build a bunch of Wal-Marts throughout NYC. Why the heck shouldn't NYC have Wal-Marts too!?! Now, we're talkin' the refinement and beautification of NYC!

[mets16]

Look, Safeco kept the Mariners in Seattle, a city who recently proved they can't even handle a pro basketball team, so I know why the place means so much to you. But to say that Safeco is the best ballpark is a little crazy. I would rather sit in the rain than sit in an indoor ballpark, and don't tell me it is open air, if I knock walls down and still have a roof over me, I am inside. You can say that it is the best retractable roof ballpark, but do you enjoy being the "best of the worst"? I mean the whole retractable roof craze was a blemish on the face of Major League Baseball.

[Bobby_Ayala]

You tell 'em, Bobby! And while we're at it, they should tear down all the stores, bars and restaurants in Manhattan--on 5th, Madison, The Village, the Upper West and East Sides, etc., and put up shopping malls in their place! House all those shops in a beautiful structure - maybe mimic the breathtaking exterior of that beautiful palace, Safeco! Why should people have to walk, eat and shop in the rain?!

And then I suggest we put the icing on the cake - build a bunch of Wal-Marts throughout NYC. Why the heck shouldn't NYC have Wal-Marts too!?! Now, we're talkin' the beautification of NYC!
There's nothing wrong with Safeco's roof. I like having games being played on-time without delay. That's all. You enjoy NYS and attending games there. Terrific. I just pointed out that when Seattle played at the Yankees, 2 of the 3 games were delayed by rain. That doesn't happen at "erector set eyesore" Safeco. I'm extremely grateful for the dry, outdoor baseball Safeco offers. Good luck.

[Rob R]

There's nothing wrong with Safeco's roof. I like having games being played on-time without delay. That's all. You enjoy NYS and attending games there. Terrific. I just pointed out that when Seattle played at the Yankees, 2 of the 3 games were delayed by rain. That doesn't happen at "erector set eyesore" Safeco. I'm extremely grateful for the dry, outdoor baseball Safeco offers. Good luck.

You know, at least your not a jerk and can take ribbing as well as give it back. But rarely, if ever, have you attacked the person. I have to give you credit for that - sometimes I don't have as much restraint.

[KingmanIII]

Look, Safeco kept the Mariners in Seattle, a city who recently proved they can't even handle a pro basketball team, so I know why the place means so much to you. But to say that Safeco is the best ballpark is a little crazy. I would rather sit in the rain than sit in an indoor ballpark, and don't tell me it is open air, if I knock walls down and still have a roof over me, I am inside. You can say that it is the best retractable roof ballpark, but do you enjoy being the "best of the worst"? I mean the whole retractable roof craze was a blemish on the face of Major League Baseball.
Dude, what are you talking about? The only reason the Sonics relocated is because the city wouldn't let Clay Bennett (an Oklahoma native) extort them for a new $500 million arena (Key Arena was renovated in 1995).

And for the last time, Safeco Field's roof doesn't sit over the stadium when open.
http://static.fortes.com/2005/06/safeco/safecopano.jpg

[Bobby_Ayala]

Look, Safeco kept the Mariners in Seattle, a city who recently proved they can't even handle a pro basketball team, so I know why the place means so much to you. But to say that Safeco is the best ballpark is a little crazy. I would rather sit in the rain than sit in an indoor ballpark, and don't tell me it is open air, if I knock walls down and still have a roof over me, I am inside. You can say that it is the best retractable roof ballpark, but do you enjoy being the "best of the worst"? I mean the whole retractable roof craze was a blemish on the face of Major League Baseball.

Dude, what are you talking about? The only reason the Sonics relocated is because the city wouldn't let Clay Bennett (an Oklahoma native) extort them for a new $500 million arena (Key Arena was renovated in 1995).

And for the last time, Safeco Field's roof doesn't sit over the stadium when open.
http://static.fortes.com/2005/06/safeco/safecopano.jpg
Listen, it's common knowledge that Safeco Field is an outdoor ballpark. Even when the roof is extended, it's open-air. That's a fact. It's a giant umbrella, or a giant moving carport. That isn't open for interpretation. They don't even say the roof is "closed" but use the word "extended" instead. Safeco is the only outdoor ballpark that is free of delays and postponements. That is a very good thing, I fail to see the negative there.

[Anubis2051]

Listen, it's common knowledge that Safeco Field is an outdoor ballpark. Even when the roof is extended, it's open-air. That's a fact. It's a giant umbrella, or a giant moving carport. That isn't open for interpretation. They don't even say the roof is "closed" but use the word "extended" instead. Safeco is the only outdoor ballpark that is free of delays and postponements. That is a very good thing, I fail to see the negative there. I'm sorry but mets16 :blah:does nothing but look for fights. For whatever reason, he rips the city of Seattle every chance he gets. :yawn:

A screen house is open air, but I'm still inside. If I roll down the windows in my car, I'm still inside. I drive a Jeep, and if I take the doors off, I'm still inside. I'm sorry, but so long as there is a roof over my head, I'm inside.

http://www.sunrealtync.com/images/rentalimages/138screenporch.jpg
http://www.dx4life.com/blankman/images/Jeep/IMG_0617-small.jpg

[Zoso]

A screen house is open air, but I'm still inside. If I roll down the windows in my car, I'm still inside. I drive a Jeep, and if I take the doors off, I'm still inside. I'm sorry, but so long as there is a roof over my head, I'm inside.

http://www.sunrealtync.com/images/rentalimages/138screenporch.jpg
http://www.dx4life.com/blankman/images/Jeep/IMG_0617-small.jpg

But it's a helluva lot more pleasant on a summer day to sit on the screen porch than to sit in the kitchen. Of if it's raining. That's kind of the point, dude.

[Anubis2051]

But it's a helluva lot more pleasant on a summer day to sit on the screen porch than to sit in the kitchen. Of if it's raining. That's kind of the point, dude.

I get that, and I agree. But he's saying you're outside, which isn't true. There is a solid roof over your head, and walls on three sides. You're inside. :waving

[CandlestickBum]

I get that, and I agree. But he's saying you're outside, which isn't true. There is a solid roof over your head, and walls on three sides. You're inside. :waving

Scenario:

You're in your backyard, standing in the kids (empty) pool and have an open umbrella.

Outside or inside?

Your at an outdoor handball court that someone put a tarp over the top.

Outside or inside?

:ooo::crazy:D:hissyfit::silent:

Question to locals, if there's a storm, does it get windy inside? I'm talking Candlestick hot dog wrapper swirling around the ballpark windy.

Not breezy, windy. Just wondering. I think this inside outside thing is kinda funny, it's fresh air, no A/C, no heating, that's good enough for me, fresh air.

And you guys love your ballpark, so it must be allright. Don't see too many Minute Maid lovers around now do ya?

[marlins739]

I'd rather sit under a metal sky than have an hour rain delay if it's something that happens regularly, but maybe I'm in the minority.

The interesting thing about the open air design is what happens to people in the left field bleachers if it's windy and raining outside. I guess they just get wet

[mets16]

I'd rather sit under a metal sky than have an hour rain delay if it's something that happens regularly, but maybe I'm in the minority.

The interesting thing about the open air design is what happens to people in the left field bleachers if it's windy and raining outside. I guess they just get wet

Yes, but how often do we have it in New York? I will take the 10-15 times a year than a roof.

[The Korean]

Maybe because it looks like this? :shrug:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3260/2420597008_997e40b3f8.jpg

And makes the exterior look like this? :shrug:

http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w241/fafafooey69/Ugh.jpg
http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w241/fafafooey69/CkXTJL4i.jpg[/QUOTE]

I think it looks sexy.

[Anubis2051]

Scenario:

You're in your backyard, standing in the kids (empty) pool and have an open umbrella.

Outside or inside?

Your at an outdoor handball court that someone put a tarp over the top.

Outside or inside?

:ooo::crazy:D:hissyfit::silent:

Question to locals, if there's a storm, does it get windy inside? I'm talking Candlestick hot dog wrapper swirling around the ballpark windy.

Not breezy, windy. Just wondering. I think this inside outside thing is kinda funny, it's fresh air, no A/C, no heating, that's good enough for me, fresh air.

And you guys love your ballpark, so it must be allright. Don't see too many Minute Maid lovers around now do ya?

But thats the thing. It's not open all around. with an umbrella, you have a full 360 degrees of open air. At safeco, left field and a tiny bit of right is open. That's basically like opening the back door to your house. Are you outside then? no, of course not. And Minute Maid has it's own problems.

and you guys keep complaining about that picture, but it seams most pictures with the roof closed look dark:
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3187/2939091674_c7c31179ed_o.jpg

[Zoso]

I agree. A nice off-white roof would be much better, considering the dark color of the ball.

[CandlestickBum]

But thats the thing. It's not open all around. with an umbrella, you have a full 360 degrees of open air. At safeco, left field and a tiny bit of right is open. That's basically like opening the back door to your house. Are you outside then? no, of course not. And Minute Maid has it's own problems.

Eh, the pix "thekorean" posted make it look a bit more like Miller.

Anubis, I understand it's not completely open, was under the impression it has a very, and I want to emphasize very, since so many supporters do, very open feel to it.

However, thinking about it, to support that statement. I do not recall many pictures with the roof "closed", other than from that ONE single angle.

I'm just saying. *shrug*

Sattelites still love their new stadium though, no denying that. Maybe because anything other than the Kingdome would look like baseball heaven in comparison?

[marlins739]

Yes, but how often do we have it in New York? I will take the 10-15 times a year than a roof.

So then you can be thankful that Safeco Field isn't in New York. Have you been there? It really is nice in person. I was there on a rainy day, and even though the weather had cleared up by game time, it was nice to know that there would definitely be a game that night. Nobody is suggesting that NYS and Citi Field should have roofs, so there's nothing to fight about. Compared to Citi and NYS, you have more of a view of the outside world from Safeco, which isn't almost completely closed in by scoreboards in the outfield.

[CandlestickBum]

Something I havent noticed mentioned in this thread:

The US Army Jungle Warfare School is located near Seattle. It's RAINforest country up there.

That's why there's a roof. Doh!

[jnakamura]

Sattelites still love their new stadium though, no denying that. Maybe because anything other than the Kingdome would look like baseball heaven in comparison?

That must be it.



http://bestuff.com/images/images_of_stuff/210x600/ugly-woman-12424.jpg
KINGDOME


http://www.insidesocal.com/outinhollywood/,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,rosie1.jpg
SAFECO FIELD

[CandlestickBum]

That must be it.



http://bestuff.com/images/images_of_stuff/210x600/ugly-woman-12424.jpg
KINGDOME


http://www.insidesocal.com/outinhollywood/,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,rosie1.jpg
SAFECO FIELD

http://www.mercymachines.net/images/lmao.jpg

[Rob R]

That must be it.



http://bestuff.com/images/images_of_stuff/210x600/ugly-woman-12424.jpg
KINGDOME


http://www.insidesocal.com/outinhollywood/,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,rosie1.jpg
SAFECO FIELD

That's some funny shite.

[MarthaT]

That must be it.



http://bestuff.com/images/images_of_stuff/210x600/ugly-woman-12424.jpg
KINGDOME


http://www.insidesocal.com/outinhollywood/,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,rosie1.jpg
SAFECO FIELD

LOL :laugh

[Rob R]

Why does Safeco need a roof? To guarantee scenes like the one below never occur. In the Mariners' lone trip to NYS, 2 of the 3 games were delayed by rain. I love Safeco's roof.



Have no fear. Cashman loves Safeco so much that he decided to put a roof over NYS. The same exact roof, same look as Safeco, as a matter of fact. It's going up as I write this.

http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w241/fafafooey69/NYSErectorSet-1.jpg

[mets16]

Have no fear. Cashman loves Safeco so much that he decided to put a roof over NYS. The same exact roof, same look as Safeco, as a matter of fact. It's going up as I write this.

http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w241/fafafooey69/NYSErectorSet.jpg

Haha, just don't walk down the first base side... you will question yourself if you are by a ballpark or an industrial park

[Rob R]

Haha, just don't walk down the first base side... you will question yourself if you are by a ballpark or an industrial park

Yeah, but one side will still look like half a stadium! Just cover one eye as you approach it. That's the trick.

BTW, I tweaked the pic, that's why it's not showing in your post. I'll see what Citi looks like as half a ballpark when I get the chance.

[Rob R]

Oh no, Citi Field has added a roof and got the Safeco makeover!

http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w241/fafafooey69/CFErect2.jpg

[Bobby_Ayala]

Have no fear. Cashman loves Safeco so much that he decided to put a roof over NYS. The same exact roof, same look as Safeco, as a matter of fact. It's going up as I write this.


NYS could have used the roof today, another rain delay.:laugh Tomorrow the Mariners will indeed face the Cleveland Indians, in perfect dry, outdoor conditions, on time at 7:10 p.m. :nod:

[baseballman1243]

NYS could have used the roof today, another rain delay.:laugh Tomorrow the Mariners will indeed face the Cleveland Indians, in perfect dry, outdoor conditions, on time at 7:10 p.m. :nod:

Wow are you really bragging about that. Give me a break.

[Bobby_Ayala]

Wow are you really bragging about that. Give me a break.

Not bragging. It is a truthful comment. You like NYS, and enjoy that place, which is great. All I did was state while NYS endures another weather related delay, Safeco will host a ballgame tomorrow outdoors, in dry conditions. That's all

[baseballman1243]

Not bragging. It is a truthful comment. You like NYS, and enjoy that place, which is great. All I did was state while NYS endures another weather related delay, Safeco will host a ballgame tomorrow outdoors, in dry conditions. That's all

Who cares. Who wants to play baseball indoors. That blows.

[Anubis2051]

As for Inside Verses Outside, you are clearly in the minority on this one. If there is a roof overhead and the elements are kept out, you are inside. Baseball was meant to deal with the elements, not shut them out. Thats for Hockey and Basketball. Most teams play though slight rain, and it can have a great effect on the game. It makes for a much more interesting game than one that is in a completely controlled environment where the elements can be shut out. Thank god the twins at least are moving outside next year.

[Bobby_Ayala]

What I don't quite get is why would anyone take issue with a baseball venue that is free of delays and postponements or with a person who enjoys attending games at said venue. Yes Axl, I've been to Safeco Field. You ask for a specific number? 39 games. I did not attend games in 2002 or 2008. My first games at Safeco was in August of 1999. Safeco's 2nd homestand. The Mariners were swept by the Yankees in a 4 game series and then went on to defeat the White Sox. I witnessed Buhner's 300th HR in 2000, Record tying and breaking wins in 2001. Ichiro breaking Sisler's record in 2004, also Edgar Martinez's final MLB game. I've attended many games there. Scrutinize someone else.

[KingmanIII]

Unlike most of you, I've actually been to Safeco and with the roof open it feels NOTHING like an indoor ballpark.

I'm from KC, BTW, so I'm not biased toward the place.

[NinthWithoutNen]

Wow, a lot of you guys are being jerks about this. When I visited Seattle, the place looked fine when the roof was open, and when it started raining, the roof closed and I actually got to watch baseball!

I do prefer non-domed stadiums, but Safeco does the dome right.

[Captain Cold Nose]

Several posts have been deleted. as always, posts on this site are not supposed to be about other posters unless it is directly related to the thread. This is for everyone. Knock it off.

[KingmanIII]

Several posts have been deleted. as always, posts on this site are not supposed to be about other posters unless it is directly related to the thread. This is for everyone. Knock it off.
That's the BF "New York Mafia" for you -- disagree with one of them and you're in for it -- strength in numbers.

[Bobby_Ayala]

Baseball was meant to deal with the elements, not shut them out..
No it wasn't, that's why there are rain delays and postponements. If it's pouring rain, the game won't be played.

[ChineseDemocracy]

Pics or it didn't happen.

[Captain Cold Nose]

That's the BF "New York Mafia" for you -- disagree with one of them and you're in for it -- strength in numbers.

If anyone, anyone has an issue with other posters or feel there is a disruptive element they are encouraged to report such posts as opposed to escalating things on the public boards. There is no such thing here as status by geography. Not legitimately, anyway.

Trash talk does work both ways, though. There are plenty of posters who are fans of the New York teams who are very respectful of the fans of other teams. And there are plenty of posters who will knock New York and its fans every chance they are allowed. Neither is appropriate here.

[Trickyhop]

Holy ****. This whole Safeco thing has gotten blown way out of proportion. Only Americans, and possibley Canadians could possibley have such stupid arguements. Every MLB team plays in a palace, and if you want to argue about ugliness and such, it just shows how ignorant and spoiled we are in America to worship sports the way we do (myself included). Hell, I loved the Kingdome.

Baseball is nothing but entertainment. It competes with Jazz festivals, bead festivals, and fishing season. It's just entertainment, get over it. Things are way too personal in here.

[Bobby_Ayala]

Holy ****. This whole Safeco thing has gotten blown way out of proportion. Only Americans, and possibley Canadians could possibley have such stupid arguements. Every MLB team plays in a palace, and if you want to argue about ugliness and such, it just shows how ignorant and spoiled we are in America to worship sports the way we do (myself included). Hell, I loved the Kingdome.

Baseball is nothing but entertainment. It competes with Jazz festivals, bead festivals, and fishing season. It's just entertainment, get over it. Things are way too personal in here.

Well said. :applaud:

[Bobby_Ayala]

Well, to guarantee the image below will never occur at outdoor Safeco Field :cool:
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3465/3798805761_c4f7036a23.jpg

[baseballman1243]

Well, to guarantee the image below will never occur at outdoor Safeco Field :cool:
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3465/3798805761_c4f7036a23.jpg

Who wants to play baseball indoors. That blows.

[Bobby_Ayala]

Who wants to play baseball indoors. That blows.

Not too many, but I'm glad Safeco is outdoors.

[baseballman1243]

Not too many, but I'm glad Safeco is outdoors.

When it's raining it's indoors. That sucks I would rather take a rain delay.

[Bobby_Ayala]

Duplicate post

[Bobby_Ayala]

When it's raining it's indoors. That sucks I would rather take a rain delay.
1. Incorrect, Safeco is outdoors, the roof is an umbrella, you still breathe fresh air, and feel the wind.
2. Rain delays suck. :cool:

[baseballman1243]

1. Incorrect, Safeco is outdoors, the roof is an umbrella, you still breathe fresh air.
2. Rain delays suck. :cool:

Baseball sucks when played under a roof. Who cares about 3 or 4 rain delays that you will probably never be at.

[Bobby_Ayala]

Baseball sucks when played under a roof. Who cares about 3 or 4 rain delays that you will probably never be at.Baseball under a roof, while still being outdoors, like Safeco, is preferable to rainy baseball. I wasn't at Safeco's ONE delay, which occured in 2000, Safeco's 1st full season, for about 45 minutes, due to a computer glitch. Now if you are insinuating one of CD theories, shame on you. CD was frustrated he ran out of excuses to make for his aging park.

[Bobby_Ayala]

I don't live in world where having an outdoor ballpark (Safeco) where there are no rain-delays, where games are begun on-time, as scheduled and played to completion is a bad thing. :twocents: I just cannot take issue with Safeco having a roof.

[baseballman1243]

I don't live in world where having an outdoor ballpark (Safeco) where there are no rain-delays, where games are begun on-time, as scheduled and played to completion is a bad thing. :twocents: I just cannot take issue with Safeco having a roof.

Do you think every stadium should have a retractable roof?

[shake-n-bake]

A retractable roof is much different than playing indoors. At Safeco you hear the trains, feel the temp. outside, the wind, the moisture in the air, etc. Much different than the Kingdome, particularly the sounds. I hated to see people cheering when the Kingdome was imploded. I like what Seattle has now much better, but hard to cheer seeing a place you and your dad spent so much time in go away forever.

One nice thing about no rain outs is we live 4 hours away. The weather here in the NW is always subject to change. My son got to either open or close the roof (can't remember now) on his birthday about 5 or 6 years ago. We were at the ballpark way before the 2 hours before game time when the gates open. I was taking his picture with Ichiro (a huge Fathead type deal on an outside door) and this fella starts talking with my son, found out it was his birthday, and asked if he'd like to operate the roof. Him getting to close the roof would be much better deal for us than driving another 4 hours back home with him getting car sick every 23 miles and never have gotten to see a game.

[marlins739]

The Yankees would draw (and do draw) without a roof because they have enough fans in a very small area that don't have to travel very far to go to the games. They can decide half an hour before whether or not to go to the game, and there are enough Yankee fans that the demand for tickets is not dependent on the weather. However, as hard as this is for Yankee fans to believe, not every team is the Yankees, and most teams have to do more than just play to bring in the crowds. For teams like the Mariners that draw from a large area with iffy weather, who might not want to drive for hours if there's an excellent chance of rain, having a roof is a great way to guarantee that a game will be played. Same goes for the other teams with roofs, especially the Astros, D-backs, and Marlins.

That doesn't mean that every stadium should have a retractable roof. Even a Yankee fan would be forced to admit that the weather is less suited to baseball in Seattle and Miami and Houston than it is in San Diego, LA, and other places. I would argue that the Rangers should have a roof, since it's so hot in Texas (I'll see for myself next weekend). Any possible Rays ballpark should definitely have a retractable roof. Other cities have good enough weather that the occasional rain delay won't kill attendance.

As a baseball fan, I say baseball under a roof is better than no baseball at all. Who enjoys rain delays?

[Anubis2051]

The Yankees would draw (and do draw) without a roof because they have enough fans in a very small area that don't have to travel very far to go to the games. They can decide half an hour before whether or not to go to the game, and there are enough Yankee fans that the demand for tickets is not dependent on the weather. However, as hard as this is for Yankee fans to believe, not every team is the Yankees, and most teams have to do more than just play to bring in the crowds. For teams like the Mariners that draw from a large area with iffy weather, who might not want to drive for hours if there's an excellent chance of rain, having a roof is a great way to guarantee that a game will be played. Same goes for the other teams with roofs, especially the Astros, D-backs, and Marlins.

I'm sorry, but this is just not true. I live in central Jersey (yes, it exists South Jerseyans) and I need at least an hour and a half, two or three if I drive in, to get to the Stadium. The season ticket holders who sit near me are also from either Jersey or PA. There are a lot of Yankee fans in NYC, but even more from Jersey , CT, Northern PA, and the rest of NY. Theres even a lot from Southern Jersey, (parts of which are even further south than Baltimore btw), I remember being in a McDonalds in Ocean City NJ, and the kid behind the counter saw my hat and was telling me he was driving three and a half hours the next day to head up to the stadium. A lot of us run the same risk as people in Washington, and we seam to do it ok.

[marlins739]

I'm sorry, but this is just not true. I live in central Jersey (yes, it exists South Jerseyans) and I need at least an hour and a half, two or three if I drive in, to get to the Stadium. The season ticket holders who sit near me are also from either Jersey or PA. There are a lot of Yankee fans in NYC, but even more from Jersey , CT, Northern PA, and the rest of NY. Theres even a lot from Southern Jersey, (parts of which are even further south than Baltimore btw), I remember being in a McDonalds in Ocean City NJ, and the kid behind the counter saw my hat and was telling me he was driving three and a half hours the next day to head up to the stadium. A lot of us run the same risk as people in Washington, and we seam to do it ok.
I didn't mean to say that there weren't Yankees fans outside of the immediate NYC area, because there are plenty. Lots of my own family members are Yankees fans (and a few Mets fans) who live a solid hour with no traffic from either ballpark. I just mean that there are enough people in the immediate area to support the team, which is something most other cities don't have, so they have to find other ways to bring in the crowds

[DiggerODell]

Holy ****. This whole Safeco thing has gotten blown way out of proportion. Only Americans, and possibley Canadians could possibley have such stupid arguements. Every MLB team plays in a palace, and if you want to argue about ugliness and such, it just shows how ignorant and spoiled we are in America to worship sports the way we do (myself included). Hell, I loved the Kingdome.

Baseball is nothing but entertainment. It competes with Jazz festivals, bead festivals, and fishing season. It's just entertainment, get over it. Things are way too personal in here.

For all the time I have spent on BBF in the past year and one half, the sentiment, spirit & perspective of Trickyhop's post here should be considered "post of the year" by many! You nailed it Trick . . . I am only sorry it is on a thread which is not considered one of the threads seen by all or even many. If I ever figure out how to put it at the end of my tagline as a quote . . . I will. "Every MLB team plays in a palace"! Lest we ever forget this. Hell, I loved the Stick! ha!

[Bobby_Ayala]

Who enjoys rain delays?baseballman1243 does. :laugh

[mets16]

baseballman1243 does. :laugh

No, he enjoys baseball in it's purist form. :laugh

[baseballman1243]

No, he enjoys baseball in it's purist form. :laugh

Thanks you actually just summed up what I've been trying to say. Baseball is supposed to be played outdoors. Florida should have a retractable roof because it rains there A LOT. Safeco on the other hand should not. Baseball is a game that is played on grass in the sun. It's a sport meant for the outdoors. How you enjoy the game with a roof over your head is beyond me. I'll take the 4 rain delays out of 81 games.

[Bobby_Ayala]

Do you think every stadium should have a retractable roof?
No, but I don't object that Safeco has a roof, and I know that the Baseball Club of Seattle and Safeco attendees don't object either. It works. It fits.
It belongs. :twocents:

[baseballman1243]

No, but I don't object that Safeco has a roof, and I know that the Baseball Club of Seattle and Safeco attendees don't object either. It works. It fits.
It belongs. :twocents:

If it didn't have a roof then it would work also. Face it, the roof is unnecessary and is only there because the stadium was built during a time when having a retractable roof was fashionable.

[Bobby_Ayala]

Baseball is a game that is played on grass in the sun. It's a sport meant for the outdoors. How you enjoy the game with a roof over your head is beyond me. I'll take the 4 rain delays out of 81 games.
At Safeco, the game is played on grass, and sometimes in the sun, and always outdoors.
I've said before, I prefer games being played, on schedule and to completion than being delayed or postponed. I don't disapprove of the roof one bit.

[RoastedPeanut]

1. Incorrect, Safeco is outdoors, the roof is an umbrella, you still breathe fresh air, and feel the wind.
2. Rain delays suck. :cool:

Baseball needs to feel like it did at inception.. Elysian Field; a park open to air, bright sky, or cloudy precipitation.. The second we start going out of our way to convenience our perception of an event, the scene is lost. When was the last time you said to yourself, "Damn.. This Donato's Pizza break at the seventh inning is worth being here!"

This roof debate isn't even a near argument.. If the population surrounding Seattle is so concerned with baseball, they would have made a move to bring the sport into their towns.. Look at the Continental League..

[muckandgrind]

It won't be long before retractable roofs will be as fashionable as 8 track tapes. Heck, even dome stadiums like the Astro Dome and Metro Dome were fashionable for about five minutes. No matter how much you try to dress up the pig, it's still a pig. That view from the 3rd base line at Safeco is not a pretty one as you can't help but staring at that montrosity looming above right field. Is it better than a completely domed stadium? Yes, but only slightly.

IMO, Arizona is the only ballpark that would probably require a roof. Miami and Houston are debatable. Seattle and Milwaukee? No way.

[Bobby_Ayala]

Baseball needs to feel like it did at inception.. Elysian Field; a park open to air, bright sky, or cloudy precipitation.. The second we start going out of our way to convenience our perception of an event, the scene is lost. When was the last time you said to yourself, "Damn.. This Donato's Pizza break at the seventh inning is worth being here!"

This roof debate isn't even a near argument.. If the population surrounding Seattle is so concerned with baseball, they would have made a move to bring the sport into their towns.. Look at the Continental League..
Time evolves. It (the roof) works, it fits. It belongs and it's not going away. :highfive:

[Bobby_Ayala]

So that the image below, doesn't happen during Seattle home games. :thumbsup:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3191/2398078578_850c428907.jpg

http://www.flickr.com/photos/el_molino12/

[Anubis2051]

So that the image below, doesn't happen during Seattle home games. :thumbsup:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3191/2398078578_850c428907.jpg

http://www.flickr.com/photos/el_molino12/

Bobby, is this all you do all day? Search the internet for pictures of stadiums with the tarp down? We get it, SAFECO doesn't have rain delays. Instead you get to play baseball in an airplane hangar. Congrats.

[Bobby_Ayala]

We get it, SAFECO doesn't have rain delays. Instead you get to play baseball in an airplane hangar. Congrats.:blah: :blah: :blah:

[Bobby_Ayala]

This pretty much sums it up and is worded perfectly.
Pictures don't do justice. Safeco is a beautiful park, and you have to see it in person to respect it. The steel and brick might not be attractive to some, but it fits in amazingly well with the SoDo district of Seattle, plus it is unique from all other MLB parks, and adds character to the place. It's funny how I haven't heard a single negative thing about the place from anybody who has been there, but hundreds from people who have never been to Seattle. Weird....

[Bobby_Ayala]

. If the population surrounding Seattle is so concerned with baseball, they would have made a move to bring the sport into their towns.. Look at the Continental League..
What about the Continental League? That league never got off the ground. You're measuring Seattle's appetite for baseball based on a failed league 50 years ago? How about Buffalo?

[Anubis2051]

:blah: :blah: :blah:

Note the lack of a response to the question and the truncated quote. Mature bobby.

[Bobby_Ayala]

Fixing Safeco Field's roof (http://seattle.bizjournals.com/seattle/stories/2007/12/17/story4.html)

[Bobby_Ayala]

A Special Ballpark (http://www.djc.com/special/safeco/)

[KingmanIII]

Bobby, is this all you do all day? Search the internet for pictures of stadiums with the tarp down? We get it, SAFECO doesn't have rain delays. Instead you get to play baseball in an airplane hangar. Congrats.
http://www.wickedsunshine.com/WagePeace/Election2004/Images/AwJeez,NotThisShitAgain!.jpg

As I've testified countless times before, with the roof open Safeco feels NOTHING like an airplane hangar. Get off it.

[Rob R]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_qcYBJId7o

[Trickyhop]

For all the time I have spent on BBF in the past year and one half, the sentiment, spirit & perspective of Trickyhop's post here should be considered "post of the year" by many! You nailed it Trick . . . I am only sorry it is on a thread which is not considered one of the threads seen by all or even many. If I ever figure out how to put it at the end of my tagline as a quote . . . I will. "Every MLB team plays in a palace"! Lest we ever forget this. Hell, I loved the Stick! ha!


DiggerODell,

Thanks for the very underserving compliment and understanding. I've visited many ballparks around the country and Canada as well, and each is special in its own way. Having played hardball on some very harsh grounds, and enduring playing through pouring down rain in WA. state, I think the Seattle Mariners are so lucky to not have to deal with rain with the roof. Purity of the game? It's all relative and based off of opinion. It's a worthless argument. This whole thread is just a bunch of opinions thrown about with barrel chests sticking out. Boring.

I personally would be more than happy to play ball in ANY of the MLB parks out there, and personally having played stickball in foreign countries, you can see why people from outside of N. America work so hard to come to America/Canada to play professional baseball. The stadiums are all beautiful, and here we are bickering over stadiums none of us are even close to being talented enough to play in. It would be a thrill for anyone in this thread to have the honor of playing a real MLB game in front of a huge crowd at Safeco field, or any other MLB park. Period.

[porsche twin turbo]

They considered building a ballpark with a retractable roof in Philadelphia but the cost was too determined to be more than Philadelphia could afford.

It seems to rain a lot at Phillies games but perhaps Phillies ownership doesn't mind because fans buy a lot of beer during hour-and-a-half rain delays.

In my opinion, they didn't build the upper concourses at Citizens Bank Park and Camden Yards large enough to accomodate the number of people standing around during a rain delay.

We visited Seattle last month. The weather was beautiful but it rained the night we went to see the Mariners, so I'm glad Safeco Field has a retractable roof.

[LI METS FAN]

They considered building a ballpark with a retractable roof in Philadelphia but the cost was too determined to be more than Philadelphia could afford.

It seems to rain a lot at Phillies games but perhaps Phillies ownership doesn't mind because fans buy a lot of beer during hour-and-a-half rain delays.

In my opinion, they didn't build the upper concourses at Citizens Bank Park and Camden Yards large enough to accomodate the number of people standing around during a rain delay.

We visited Seattle last month. The weather was beautiful but it rained the night we went to see the Mariners, so I'm glad Safeco Field has a retractable roof.

And Safeco's roof is just that...a roof... it's not a totally enclosed stadium like Arizona's, Houston's or Tampa's which all need air-conditioning, making it an expensive proposition. Seattle's is truly still open air, if it rains the roof comes out but its still open on the sides so no air-conditioning. I have been to Seattle dozens of times (lots of relatives) and none of my relatives have a/c but they do complain about the rain.

[muckandgrind]

Does anyone know many games, on average, are played under the roof as opposed to under blue sky at Safeco every year?

[Seattle1]

Does anyone know many games, on average, are played under the roof as opposed to under blue sky at Safeco every year?

It's not all that many actually. I think the tour guide said it's like 10 or 14 games a year or something like that.

[jnakamura]

It's not all that many actually. I think the tour guide said it's like 10 or 14 games a year or something like that.

This was my first summer in the Northwest and was pleasantly surprised at how warm, dry and beautiful it is from June through September.

But the rains and cold...they are-a-comin'.

[RoastedPeanut]

Playing in a rain delay or a postponement, in my opinion, is similar to freezing the kicker. An added touch of stress and unfamiliarity is placed upon the game that inherits a loss for control. In this light is where the true talent resides; with unfavorable conditions, is it likely that a handicap will cause an individual to step up to the plate or watch him falter..? Athletics and sport constitute the motivation behind baseball's origins. Taking a deviation in terms of a shortcut takes away from the meaning. In history, a couple of games determined the difference between 61 and 61*. Steroids differentiated true ability for substituted artificial variables. Indoor venues altered drag coefficients relating to trajectory. It still feels like an organization is playing God with the implementation of altering nature. For all included inconvenience, baseball is meant to be outside to all included elements. If the wet ball at NYS yesterday decided to turn into a dry ball in fair conditions, would it have bounced off of the CF's glove and behind..?

Food for thought..

[DrBear]

. It still feels like an organization is playing God with the implementation of altering nature.
No, the organization is implementing the increase in its income by bringing in fans who might be hesitant to come to a game if rain is being threatened, especially from a long distance away, where rain checks are meaningless.

[Seattle1]

No, the organization is implementing the increase in its income by bringing in fans who might be hesitant to come to a game if rain is being threatened, especially from a long distance away, where rain checks are meaningless.

Right, it's a pretty good strategy actually. Some people make the trip all the way from Portland, or even all the way across the state from Spokane. That would really suck to drive that far only to have a game rained out. Driving around the West is not the same thing as the hop, skip, and a jump distances along the eastern seaboard megaopolis.

[RoastedPeanut]

No, the organization is implementing the increase in its income by bringing in fans who might be hesitant to come to a game if rain is being threatened, especially from a long distance away, where rain checks are meaningless.

So.. Based on this philosophy, the second largest blackout market in terms of distance traveled, the Minnesota Twins, were absent minded in regard to moving from a sheltered environment into the weather pending outdoors..?


Maybe Arlington should have pitched a tent over their ballpark while we're at it..

Cleveland had to begin a season on the road because of nature creeping into view..

Colorado postponed some playoff action as a sacrifice to their devotion to the game..

The sad and honest truth still resides in the fact that balls hit at this park carry farther with the roof closed than with it open..

This tends to come across as a last ditch effort for a city that cannot field a team in the major league's..