Freakshow
07-31-2008, 08:17 AM
This is an idea for a new project. Well, it’s too simple to call a project, so let’s call it a game. I invite someone else to step forward to be the game Moderator; if not, I can run it.
I stole this concept from someone who stole it from someone else. It’s kinda fun, even a little addictive. I think it would be a great addition to our site. This game doesn’t require any research, really. And it doesn’t need a constant moderator to baby-sit daily; I tried to write this so that the game runs itself. I tried to keep the rules simple and understandable.
The basic idea is we rank every player in history, taking turns listing the next name. Well, maybe we plan on the top 500 players initially. The collaboration we did recently (http://www.baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=70849) in the History forum had a major flaw: it was an open game (anyone could play) with no recourse for bad selections. Overall, we had a pretty good group there, but we still had players listed a hundred places too high, like Pedro Martinez at #21, Trevor Hoffman at #85 and Sam Rice #106. I like the concept, but clearly, there must be some mechanism to discourage players from being listed too early. I’ve attempted to devise rules to curb such abuses.
First off, we’ll set up a signup sheet here for a week or two. I think we want a closed group; non-gamers can post comments, but only moves posted by Gamers are counted. Maybe limit it to 40 (50?) Gamers maximum. You don’t have to be a BBFHOF voter, but it would help if you already have a system in place for assessing hundreds of players. We’ll establish a rotation of Gamers, arranging the names randomly. If we really get a lot of Gamers (+20) we should pause after each round (or perhaps after every other round) and re-randomize, reordering the names for the next round. If we have enough room, we’ll allow latecomers to sign up after the Game has started, putting them at the end of the current rotation.
We’ll use Hall of Fame criteria for ranking players, so everything counts (character, managing, their overall contribution). Only players whose primary contribution was his play on the field will be considered for the list. So, Dickey Pearce, George Wright and Frank Grant should be considered; AG Spalding, John McGraw and Rube Foster should not.
Active players will be included, but they should be ranked on their value to date, not projecting them to how you think they will end up. Negro leaguers will be included. Credit for Japanese play can be given for players who played at least four years in MLB. (Or should we include all Japan League stars?)
Basically, Gamers have three options: 1) Add a player; 2) Remove a player; 3) Reinstate a player, then add a player.
1) Add a player - Pretty simple, just recopy the list, adding your guy at the bottom. Doing this means you’re OK with the previous two players listed. Place the statement, “[Gamer X] is now on the clock” to signify the end of your turn. More about “on the clock” later.
2) Remove a player – You may remove one of the last two names on the list, adding your player at the bottom. After your player’s name, place this statement in parentheses: “sorry, I had to remove [player X] – Xth time”. (The same player can be removed up to a maximum of three times; after that he stays put the fourth time he is listed.) Then place the “clock” statement to end your turn.
3) Reinstate and add – Before listing your player you can list the name of a player who was Removed in the previous turn. After the reinstated player’s name, place the word “reinstated” in parentheses. (You may not Reinstate and Remove in the same turn.) Then place the “clock” statement to end your turn.
On The Clock – A Gamer ends his official turn with the statement “[Gamer X] is now on the clock”. Gamer X has to wait at least an hour before he may post his official turn. This delay is to encourage discussion and feedback from the other Gamers as to the previous turn, as well as discussing the upcoming pick. They can try to persuade Gamer X to play his turn in a certain way. If Gamer X posts his turn early (<57 minutes after the previous turn) one of the other Gamers must alert him that he posted too early, that his turn is not official. In this case, after the required hour has passed Gamer X must make a post to reaffirm his turn or it will not count.
Unexcused Absence - Gamer X forfeits his turn if he has not posted his official turn (or reaffirmed his turn if posted too early) within 24 hours of being On the Clock. One of the Gamers should alert the Gamer following Gamer X that he is now On the Clock. Gamer X will be placed at the end of the round, if he requests to stay in the game; otherwise he will have no turn this round. This counts as an Unexcused Absence. A Gamer will be expelled from the game after two Unexcused Absences.
Excused Absence - If Gamer X knows he will be away from the game, he should make this known to the other Gamers before his turn comes up. This way, everyone knows to skip him and put the next Gamer on the Clock. Gamer X will be moved to the end of the current rotation if he requests it; otherwise we’ll simply skip his turn. This eliminates having the game on hold for 24 hours, keeping things moving.
Example of Play
Freakshow’s turn:
1. Babe Ruth
Paul Wendt is on the clock.
==========================
Paul Wendt’s turn (may Add a Name or Remove Ruth):
1. Babe Ruth
2. Honus Wagner
Classic is on the clock.
==========================
Classic’s turn (may Add a Name or Remove Ruth or Wagner):
1. Babe Ruth
2. Willie Mays (sorry, I had to remove Honus Wagner – 1st time)
jjpm74 is on the clock.
==========================
jjpm74’s turn (may Add a Name, Remove Ruth or Mays, or Reinstate Wagner and Add a Name):
1. Babe Ruth
2. Willie Mays
3. Ty Cobb
leecemark is on the clock.
==========================
leecemark’s turn (may Add a Name, or Remove Mays or Cobb. Wagner no longer qualifies for reinstatement, but may be added):
1. Babe Ruth
2. Willie Mays
3. Ty Cobb
4. Barry Bonds
jalbright is on the clock.
==========================
jalbright’s turn (may Add a Name, or Remove Cobb or Bonds):
1. Babe Ruth
2. Willie Mays
3. Ty Cobb
4. Honus Wagner (sorry, I had to remove Barry Bonds – 1st time)
ErikBedard is on the clock.
==========================
ErikBedard’s turn (may Add a Name, Remove Cobb or Wagner, or Reinstate Bonds and Add a Name):
1. Babe Ruth
2. Willie Mays
3. Ty Cobb
4. Honus Wagner
5. Barry Bonds (Reinstated)
6. Walter Johnson
AG2004 is on the clock.
===========================
AG2004’s turn (may Add a Name, or Remove Bonds or Johnson):
1. Babe Ruth
2. Willie Mays
3. Ty Cobb
4. Honus Wagner
5. Walter Johnson
6. Ted Williams (sorry, I had to Remove Barry Bonds – 2nd time)
Chickazoola is on the clock.
===========================
These rules are not meant to be set in stone. We should be open to improvements to the rules, if actual play indicates a better procedure should be adopted.
In actual play, I would hope that the Remove option would only be used for players you think are listed significantly early, and not to replace guys you have coming up soon in your queue anyway
There is a potential pitfall in keeping the same order for each rotation. If you get a few like-minded voters bunched together, there may not be the desired check on questionable selections. Likewise, if you get a very different system following you, you may see every one of your selections Removed, which isn’t much fun. Re-randomizing the rotation would help alleviate these concerns, but that requires the Moderator to run that after each rotation (or periodically). If we have a large number of Gamers, this reordering would not have to be done too frequently. We’ll allow a 24 hour grace period after reordering for all the Gamers to check the new rotation.
The job of Moderator is pretty simple in this game. Since all Gamers are being asked to be aware of the sequence of play, the Moderator’s main job is to keep track of the list of Gamers (and reorder them, if we decide to do that) for each round of play. The lead post in the Game thread will be edited to reflect the current order of the list of Gamers. A roster of all players listed, in alphabetical order, should also be maintained in the lead post. The Moderator would also be the court of appeal for any questions on player eligibility, unforeseen events or any attempts to undermine the aims of the Game. Again, if anyone of you would like the job, it’s yours.
What I envision for this is a sort of Battle of the Heavyweight Systems. While the ranking is collaborative, the Game is competitive, in a sense; my system vs. yours. If you make an unusual choice in your turn, you should have an argument to back it up; otherwise the other Gamers are obliged to turn on you for screwing up the list. Each name will have to pass the scrutiny of at least two other voters before it becomes permanent. We’re collaborating to, hopefully, produce a better ranking than any one of us could produce on our own. Again, don’t nit-pick; if a guy is placed just a few spots higher than you have him, leave him alone.
Above all, we should maintain a spirit of cooperation. We’re working together to produce the very best rankings that we can. We seek to enlighten others, relying on the force of our evidence more than our rhetoric. We hope that all Gamers will engage in a civil discourse that has become the hallmark of this forum.
There will be no rush to get this “done”. Potentially, the game could continue for years, as long as a couple people want to continue listing players. If we average four turns per day, in a year we would rank nearly 1,500 players.
So, who’s game? Sign up in this thread if you’re interested. Comments and critiques on these rules are welcome. Three questions have been posed:
• Would someone like to be the moderator for the Game?
• Should we allow Japanese league players to be considered?
• Should we periodically reorder the rotation of Gamers?
I stole this concept from someone who stole it from someone else. It’s kinda fun, even a little addictive. I think it would be a great addition to our site. This game doesn’t require any research, really. And it doesn’t need a constant moderator to baby-sit daily; I tried to write this so that the game runs itself. I tried to keep the rules simple and understandable.
The basic idea is we rank every player in history, taking turns listing the next name. Well, maybe we plan on the top 500 players initially. The collaboration we did recently (http://www.baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=70849) in the History forum had a major flaw: it was an open game (anyone could play) with no recourse for bad selections. Overall, we had a pretty good group there, but we still had players listed a hundred places too high, like Pedro Martinez at #21, Trevor Hoffman at #85 and Sam Rice #106. I like the concept, but clearly, there must be some mechanism to discourage players from being listed too early. I’ve attempted to devise rules to curb such abuses.
First off, we’ll set up a signup sheet here for a week or two. I think we want a closed group; non-gamers can post comments, but only moves posted by Gamers are counted. Maybe limit it to 40 (50?) Gamers maximum. You don’t have to be a BBFHOF voter, but it would help if you already have a system in place for assessing hundreds of players. We’ll establish a rotation of Gamers, arranging the names randomly. If we really get a lot of Gamers (+20) we should pause after each round (or perhaps after every other round) and re-randomize, reordering the names for the next round. If we have enough room, we’ll allow latecomers to sign up after the Game has started, putting them at the end of the current rotation.
We’ll use Hall of Fame criteria for ranking players, so everything counts (character, managing, their overall contribution). Only players whose primary contribution was his play on the field will be considered for the list. So, Dickey Pearce, George Wright and Frank Grant should be considered; AG Spalding, John McGraw and Rube Foster should not.
Active players will be included, but they should be ranked on their value to date, not projecting them to how you think they will end up. Negro leaguers will be included. Credit for Japanese play can be given for players who played at least four years in MLB. (Or should we include all Japan League stars?)
Basically, Gamers have three options: 1) Add a player; 2) Remove a player; 3) Reinstate a player, then add a player.
1) Add a player - Pretty simple, just recopy the list, adding your guy at the bottom. Doing this means you’re OK with the previous two players listed. Place the statement, “[Gamer X] is now on the clock” to signify the end of your turn. More about “on the clock” later.
2) Remove a player – You may remove one of the last two names on the list, adding your player at the bottom. After your player’s name, place this statement in parentheses: “sorry, I had to remove [player X] – Xth time”. (The same player can be removed up to a maximum of three times; after that he stays put the fourth time he is listed.) Then place the “clock” statement to end your turn.
3) Reinstate and add – Before listing your player you can list the name of a player who was Removed in the previous turn. After the reinstated player’s name, place the word “reinstated” in parentheses. (You may not Reinstate and Remove in the same turn.) Then place the “clock” statement to end your turn.
On The Clock – A Gamer ends his official turn with the statement “[Gamer X] is now on the clock”. Gamer X has to wait at least an hour before he may post his official turn. This delay is to encourage discussion and feedback from the other Gamers as to the previous turn, as well as discussing the upcoming pick. They can try to persuade Gamer X to play his turn in a certain way. If Gamer X posts his turn early (<57 minutes after the previous turn) one of the other Gamers must alert him that he posted too early, that his turn is not official. In this case, after the required hour has passed Gamer X must make a post to reaffirm his turn or it will not count.
Unexcused Absence - Gamer X forfeits his turn if he has not posted his official turn (or reaffirmed his turn if posted too early) within 24 hours of being On the Clock. One of the Gamers should alert the Gamer following Gamer X that he is now On the Clock. Gamer X will be placed at the end of the round, if he requests to stay in the game; otherwise he will have no turn this round. This counts as an Unexcused Absence. A Gamer will be expelled from the game after two Unexcused Absences.
Excused Absence - If Gamer X knows he will be away from the game, he should make this known to the other Gamers before his turn comes up. This way, everyone knows to skip him and put the next Gamer on the Clock. Gamer X will be moved to the end of the current rotation if he requests it; otherwise we’ll simply skip his turn. This eliminates having the game on hold for 24 hours, keeping things moving.
Example of Play
Freakshow’s turn:
1. Babe Ruth
Paul Wendt is on the clock.
==========================
Paul Wendt’s turn (may Add a Name or Remove Ruth):
1. Babe Ruth
2. Honus Wagner
Classic is on the clock.
==========================
Classic’s turn (may Add a Name or Remove Ruth or Wagner):
1. Babe Ruth
2. Willie Mays (sorry, I had to remove Honus Wagner – 1st time)
jjpm74 is on the clock.
==========================
jjpm74’s turn (may Add a Name, Remove Ruth or Mays, or Reinstate Wagner and Add a Name):
1. Babe Ruth
2. Willie Mays
3. Ty Cobb
leecemark is on the clock.
==========================
leecemark’s turn (may Add a Name, or Remove Mays or Cobb. Wagner no longer qualifies for reinstatement, but may be added):
1. Babe Ruth
2. Willie Mays
3. Ty Cobb
4. Barry Bonds
jalbright is on the clock.
==========================
jalbright’s turn (may Add a Name, or Remove Cobb or Bonds):
1. Babe Ruth
2. Willie Mays
3. Ty Cobb
4. Honus Wagner (sorry, I had to remove Barry Bonds – 1st time)
ErikBedard is on the clock.
==========================
ErikBedard’s turn (may Add a Name, Remove Cobb or Wagner, or Reinstate Bonds and Add a Name):
1. Babe Ruth
2. Willie Mays
3. Ty Cobb
4. Honus Wagner
5. Barry Bonds (Reinstated)
6. Walter Johnson
AG2004 is on the clock.
===========================
AG2004’s turn (may Add a Name, or Remove Bonds or Johnson):
1. Babe Ruth
2. Willie Mays
3. Ty Cobb
4. Honus Wagner
5. Walter Johnson
6. Ted Williams (sorry, I had to Remove Barry Bonds – 2nd time)
Chickazoola is on the clock.
===========================
These rules are not meant to be set in stone. We should be open to improvements to the rules, if actual play indicates a better procedure should be adopted.
In actual play, I would hope that the Remove option would only be used for players you think are listed significantly early, and not to replace guys you have coming up soon in your queue anyway
There is a potential pitfall in keeping the same order for each rotation. If you get a few like-minded voters bunched together, there may not be the desired check on questionable selections. Likewise, if you get a very different system following you, you may see every one of your selections Removed, which isn’t much fun. Re-randomizing the rotation would help alleviate these concerns, but that requires the Moderator to run that after each rotation (or periodically). If we have a large number of Gamers, this reordering would not have to be done too frequently. We’ll allow a 24 hour grace period after reordering for all the Gamers to check the new rotation.
The job of Moderator is pretty simple in this game. Since all Gamers are being asked to be aware of the sequence of play, the Moderator’s main job is to keep track of the list of Gamers (and reorder them, if we decide to do that) for each round of play. The lead post in the Game thread will be edited to reflect the current order of the list of Gamers. A roster of all players listed, in alphabetical order, should also be maintained in the lead post. The Moderator would also be the court of appeal for any questions on player eligibility, unforeseen events or any attempts to undermine the aims of the Game. Again, if anyone of you would like the job, it’s yours.
What I envision for this is a sort of Battle of the Heavyweight Systems. While the ranking is collaborative, the Game is competitive, in a sense; my system vs. yours. If you make an unusual choice in your turn, you should have an argument to back it up; otherwise the other Gamers are obliged to turn on you for screwing up the list. Each name will have to pass the scrutiny of at least two other voters before it becomes permanent. We’re collaborating to, hopefully, produce a better ranking than any one of us could produce on our own. Again, don’t nit-pick; if a guy is placed just a few spots higher than you have him, leave him alone.
Above all, we should maintain a spirit of cooperation. We’re working together to produce the very best rankings that we can. We seek to enlighten others, relying on the force of our evidence more than our rhetoric. We hope that all Gamers will engage in a civil discourse that has become the hallmark of this forum.
There will be no rush to get this “done”. Potentially, the game could continue for years, as long as a couple people want to continue listing players. If we average four turns per day, in a year we would rank nearly 1,500 players.
So, who’s game? Sign up in this thread if you’re interested. Comments and critiques on these rules are welcome. Three questions have been posed:
• Would someone like to be the moderator for the Game?
• Should we allow Japanese league players to be considered?
• Should we periodically reorder the rotation of Gamers?