Thoughts on 50/70....

[tominct]

We have organizations that sponsor 50/70 leagues. They play with leading, stealing....otherwise regular baseball rules. I think it's a nice bridge to the 90 foot diamond, but the powers that be in my local organization are reluctant to make any changes, which are largely field related, districts and states, (We're Cal Ripken).

I am reluctant to move my son onto the bigger field, but I think it is better for his development.

Thoughts?

Tom

[callyjr]

We have organizations that sponsor 50/70 leagues. They play with leading, stealing....otherwise regular baseball rules. I think it's a nice bridge to the 90 foot diamond, but the powers that be in my local organization are reluctant to make any changes, which are largely field related, districts and states, (We're Cal Ripken).

I am reluctant to move my son onto the bigger field, but I think it is better for his development.

Thoughts?

Tom

not sure how it could hurt him.

[chinmuzik]

50/70 is the perfect bridge to the large diamond. I can't see how it would "hurt" the development of a young baseball player. My son played two years at 50/70 and transitioned well to the "big" diamond.

[Chris O'Leary]

We have organizations that sponsor 50/70 leagues. They play with leading, stealing....otherwise regular baseball rules. I think it's a nice bridge to the 90 foot diamond, but the powers that be in my local organization are reluctant to make any changes, which are largely field related, districts and states, (We're Cal Ripken).

I am reluctant to move my son onto the bigger field, but I think it is better for his development.

Most of the leagues here in STL are around 52/75 in 7th grade and then move back a bit more (e.g. 55/80) in 8th.

I couldn't imagine playing on a full-sized field in 7th grade.

[Bryton]

Our travel leagues up here us 50/70 in 11/12U and then 13/14U it goes to 54/80, then up to full size fields.

[Bolts-Baseball]

In our league (Cal Ripken as well) both our fields are equipped to change base lengths from 46/60 to 50/70... The retrofit plans were on RipkenBaseball.com... We built our new field a few years ago when Ripken said they were going to 50/70/225 for their World Series...

[Encinitas]

What's the rush? Let him play where his friends are. You'll see plenty of 50/70 in travel ball.

[BaseballOC2]

the first year of school bal (6th Grade, if you make it) almost everyone transitions from the LL 46/60, to the pro size diamond.

[scorekeeper]

the first year of school bal (6th Grade, if you make it) almost everyone transitions from the LL 46/60, to the pro size diamond.

That’s been generally my experience in this area.

I guess it wouldn’t bother me as much, if there was some other criteria used to funnel players into a field size other than age. Just like some 12YO’s are too mature for the 46/60, some 13YO’s are too immature for even the 54/70, let alone the 60/40.

I honestly don’t get what the big deal is if a player isn’t able to maintain his .600 BA and 15 K’s per game he had as a 12YO stud, and has to face only being able to bat .400 and get 10Ks a game on the big field! To me, its all relative to the player’s skill vs his competition.

If a place has the wherewithal to have 40’, 46’, 50’, 54’, and 60’ fields, God bless ‘em. But is it necessary to have those in between sizes? I don’t think so!

My boy was a puny 5’3/nothin’, 11YO Pitcher. He didn’t throw exceptionally hard, but at 11, I would have him throw all his away from team practices off the 60’ mound. Once or twice a week he’d throw 20 pitches or so, and guess what. When he 1st started doing that, he could barely pitch the ball to me in the air. It only took a few sessions on that mound before he could actually pitch from that distance, and after that, he just got better at it. He got plenty of time on the short mound because of team practices and games, so it was no big thing.

Our league went from the 46/60 for the 12YO AS Tournament, straight to the 60/90 for Jr fall ball. Some of the other kids struggled all fall and part of the spring, but he never missed a beat and neither did some of the better players. But by the end of the next spring, everyone was used to it.

[TG Coach]

My son played LL and LL all-stars on the 46/60 and 11U and 12U USSSA on the 50/70. I don't believe it makes a difference what size field a kid plays on in the preteen years. 60/90 is a whole new ball game.

When making the decision it's important to think in terms of the best interests of all the kids. Don't be overwhelmed by the dads of kids who can weasily handle the 50/70. The local Ripken league went 50/70 this year. I heard the play was really sloppy.

[Coordinator]

When making the decision it's important to think in terms of the best interests of all the kids. Don't be overwhelmed by the dads of kids who can weasily handle the 50/70. The local Ripken league went 50/70 this year. I heard the play was really sloppy.

My Cal Ripken league cut one of our two fields to play 50/70 games but we weren't able to use it full time in 2008 due to drainage issues. Still, we played a handful of games at 50/70, including games with the neighboring town which has converted majors to 50/70. My experience is that the kids adapted quickly, not just the kids who already play at 50/70 in AAU. I expected a disparity between the groups but my observations are that the 4 extra feet for pitching gives hitters more time and even the weakest hitters made solid, consistent contact. The infielders made more plays between having more time to field grounders and the 10 extra feet between bases.

The bottom line for us was the scale of the field slowed the game down a bit. We're planning on playing majors at 50/70 next year with leading, stealing, warnings for balks and 2-1/4 inch barrel bats. One beauty of Cal Ripken leagues is we can customize local rules as needed to meet our needs, including leading, etc.

By the way, there is still a 46/60 Cal Ripken Tournament Trail through a World Series for 10U and 12U brackets. The trend is 50/70 though. New Hampshire has a 50/70 state tournament. 3 of 8 teams in our district went to the 50/70 trail. I can't see my league implementing other diamonds on the way to 60/90 just because we don't have enough kids at each age, or the field space but 50/70 makes sense for us.

[old perfessor]

What's the rush? Let him play where his friends are. You'll see plenty of 50/70 in travel ball.

Bingo. At age 11, 12, 13...kids want to play where their friends are. That's really what makes baseball fun. I could never understand the parents of some boys my son played with at these ages running around investigating various local baseball programs to see where their son could get on a better team. Sometimes I sincerely think we should just drop the kids off at the field with a bag of equipment and balls and then have all parents leave. Just let the kids run their own game.

[Bryton]

Bingo. At age 11, 12, 13...kids want to play where their friends are. That's really what makes baseball fun. I could never understand the parents of some boys my son played with at these ages running around investigating various local baseball programs to see where their son could get on a better team. Sometimes I sincerely think we should just drop the kids off at the field with a bag of equipment and balls and then have all parents leave. Just let the kids run their own game.


I guess it depends on what your kid wants. I think when it comes to my son, he knows what he wants. He was not having fun playing rec ball against kids who had a hard time playing the game. Yes its supposed to be fun. But, why can't it still be fun while also playing at the highest level possible for your age? I don't push my kid to play travel ball. It's what he wants to do. He comes to me to help him become the best player he can be. He loves playing at a very high competative level.

"Sometimes I sincerely think we should just drop the kids off at the field with a bag of equipment and balls and then have all parents leave. Just let the kids run their own game."


My son does that with his friends all the time and they all have a ball doing it. But when it comes down to actually playing in games, he wants to play at the highest level possible.

Just my 2 cents, and how my son feels.

[scorekeeper]

I guess it depends on what your kid wants. …

The reason they’re not called adults is, it’s a given that kids do not often make decisions that are in their best interests. ;)

Before anyone gets all butt twisted and insists that their child is the exception, just consider how much of Jrs attitudes and thinking comes from dad, mom, big brother, the neighbor, or somewhere other than a well thought out decision on his own.

[Bryton]

The reason they’re not called adults is, it’s a given that kids do not often make decisions that are in their best interests. ;)

Before anyone gets all butt twisted and insists that their child is the exception, just consider how much of Jrs attitudes and thinking comes from dad, mom, big brother, the neighbor, or somewhere other than a well thought out decision on his own.


lol.

So my son wanting to play against better compition. Wanting to work hard and practice to be the best player he can be, is him "not often make decisions that are in their best interests." Hummm, I think my son has a pretty good idea at the age of 13 what he wants out of playing sports right now. I don't push him to play. He wants to play. I never said my son was the "exception." And his thinking thank you very much as I have already stated comes from him, and what his goals and dreams are. I don't have to push him to do anything when it comes to playing his sports. He wants it on his own. I as his parent am just there to help guide him and try and reach his goals and dreams. If I think he is making a wrong decision on something, trust me, I will intervene, but I don't see how working hard and wanting to play against better competition is him not making "decisions that are not in thier best interest." So what, are you saying a kid can't think for his or herself till they are atleast, what, 16. Come on.

[Encinitas]

Bryton you didn't start the thread Tominct did, and my reply was to him, which has spawned some further replies. He has like a 9 year old or maybe 10 if I recall whereas your son is 13... Big difference.

My point was that it is not necessary for a dad or son to choose a league because they think they will develop into a more complete ballplayer. It's little kids playing baseball. Now for your son, yes, I might be looking for something a little more competitive.

[scorekeeper]

Bryton,

You’re responding emotionally and taking what I said as a personal putdown, rather than thinking about what was said. Read it again, especially the last sentence! You forget that there are hundreds of other people who influence your kid’s thinking, other than you. A scary thought perhaps, but that doesn’t make it less true.

But, that doesn’t make you a bad or stupid person! It just means you’re a parent. Sooner or later, all parents go through the same thing with their kids, and it doesn’t happen only with sports. My parents went through it, I went through it, and if my kids have kids, they’ll go through it too.

[scorekeeper]

…Now for your son, yes, I might be looking for something a little more competitive.

Sorry, just couldn’t resist. ;)

Assume there are two teams where the players on both sides are of relatively equal skill. Would it make any difference as far as how much each team tried to win, whether those two teams were made up of say the best players in the state, or just a bunch of rag tag kids from the neighborhood?

IMHO, the degree of competitiveness comes from how much alike the two teams are, not the degree of their skills. I think what most people mean when they say competitive as its being talked about here, is a generally higher skill level.

[Encinitas]

Sorry, just couldn’t resist. ;)

Assume there are two teams where the players on both sides are of relatively equal skill. Would it make any difference as far as how much each team tried to win, whether those two teams were made up of say the best players in the state, or just a bunch of rag tag kids from the neighborhood?

IMHO, the degree of competitiveness comes from how much alike the two teams are, not the degree of their skills. I think what most people mean when they say competitive as its being talked about here, is a generally higher skill level.

If you are parsing words what I mean is he might want to try and face better pitching. Sorry we just had a little earthquake here, I need to take a walk, but I just mean as you approach HS ball you can experiment more because so many kids quit playing at that age. We still play in the local Pony, and we try and pick up some games against JV kids though we still an entire full year before HS.

I think the advice to a dad of a 13 is slightly different than a 10.

[scorekeeper]

If you are parsing words what I mean is he might want to try and face better pitching. Sorry we just had a little earthquake here, I need to take a walk, but I just mean as you approach HS ball you can experiment more because so many kids quit playing at that age. We still play in the local Pony, and we try and pick up some games against JV kids though we still an entire full year before HS.

I think the advice to a dad of a 13 is slightly different than a 10.

I see you had a good sized shaker!

You can call it parsing or picking at nits, but you got what I was trying to say. ;)

Its just that for so long I’ve heard people refer to what is nothing more than generally higher skilled players of the same general age, as competitive, or comp, rather than saying what they really mean. That’s how our language evolves.

What’s funny to me is, you’re indicating that its somehow associated with HS ball, when it starts much earlier than that for a great many players now-a-days. But you do bring up a good point. I wonder if its possible to figger out if a higher percentage of players quit playing at that age now, or at some pint of time in the past, say 50 years ago.

Another interesting point I’ve sometimes considered is, if everyone at a given age or level wanted to play only the best, or at least teams better than them, what possible reason would one of those better teams want to play them? I mean what’s in it for a top HSV team playing a bunch of 14YO’s?

I don’t really know that the advice to a dad with a child of one age should really be all that different from the advice to a dad with a child of some other age. I’ve never given it a lot of thought, but right off hand I don’t see why it’d be different at all.

[kgrifeyjr30]

I started playing on the 60/90 field in the 6th grade for the middle school team and I'd say it definitely helped me get a jump start over other kids my age. I'll be playing college baseball in 2010.

[scorekeeper]

I started playing on the 60/90 field in the 6th grade for the middle school team and I'd say it definitely helped me get a jump start over other kids my age. I'll be playing college baseball in 2010.

That’s fairly common around here.

I seriously doubt that there’s any empirical evidence that proves its better developmentally to play the transitional distances. I suspect though, that it makes a lot of parents feel a lot better. LOL!

[TG Coach]

I started playing on the 60/90 field in the 6th grade for the middle school team and I'd say it definitely helped me get a jump start over other kids my age. I'll be playing college baseball in 2010.

You're not playing college ball because you played on the 60/90 in 6th grade. You're playing college ball because you possess the ability to do so. Had you played on a 46/60 or 50/70 in 6th grade you would still be playing college ball.

[kgrifeyjr30]

Maybe, but I felt it was a distinct advantage getting a year or two ahead of kids on the big field because it isn't an easy transition. Especially by the time Freshman year came along. If you're looking for a successful High School career then having an advantage of experience Freshman year is a good place to start. There's many things I would've gone back and done differently in my baseball career so far, but getting an early start on the big field is not one of them is all I'm trying to say.

[scorekeeper]

Maybe, but I felt it was a distinct advantage getting a year or two ahead of kids on the big field because it isn't an easy transition. Especially by the time Freshman year came along. If you're looking for a successful High School career then having an advantage of experience Freshman year is a good place to start. There's many things I would've gone back and done differently in my baseball career so far, but getting an early start on the big field is not one of them is all I'm trying to say.

Whether or not it helped you isn’t really the issue is it? What’s important is, you’re proof positive that the transitional fields aren’t necessary, and in fact might even be a hindrance! When something like that isn’t necessary, its likely that the additional cost isn’t worth any possible advantage there might be.

[kgrifeyjr30]

scorekeeper- you could be right and btw my last post was a response to tgcoach just incase it was unclear

[dmullen]

My son started playing on the 60/90 field when he was 12 (7th grade middle school team) - very few of the 6th grade boys could make the throw from third to first or from SS to first. Some of the 7th grade boys couldn't either. They also played with -3 bats some of the boys couldn't even swing those things properly. Pitching from 60 feet wasn't easy for a bunch of these kids either. In short it was a growing experience for most of the boys - but hey that's life. My kid survived and is now playing HS baseball on the big fields and doing pretty well. Just enjoy your time with your boy regardless of the field size. That's what you'll remember not the how big the field was but the good times you had watching your kid growup.

Not a big deal to me - whatever your son wants to do would be what I would do. This is not life or death as some people would make it out to be. Its just kid baseball.

[scorekeeper]

scorekeeper- you could be right and btw my last post was a response to tgcoach just incase it was unclear

Trust me. I’m on your side here! I can see playing on an intermediate field if it’s the only thing that will keep a player in the game, but not if its just so they can maintain great numbers or be a star.

People say players need to play against the best to test themselves, well, what better test than to play on the big field rather than something less?

[BallCoach06]

Bingo. At age 11, 12, 13...kids want to play where their friends are. That's really what makes baseball fun. I could never understand the parents of some boys my son played with at these ages running around investigating various local baseball programs to see where their son could get on a better team. Sometimes I sincerely think we should just drop the kids off at the field with a bag of equipment and balls and then have all parents leave. Just let the kids run their own game.

Couldn't agree more! You just don't see kids playing wiffle ball, over the line, or pickup games for fun anymore. There always seems to be parents or organizations that think they have to be involved in every aspect of the game. I guess for the most organizations (AAU, USSSA, etc.) I can see why, the almighty dollar.

[BallCoach06]

50/70 is the perfect bridge to the large diamond. I can't see how it would "hurt" the development of a young baseball player. My son played two years at 50/70 and transitioned well to the "big" diamond.

I think the quicker kids get moved to a bigger field the better. From what I know about Ripken Leagues, I really wish more leagues around here would go with Ripken over Little League.

[kgrifeyjr30]

"Sometimes I sincerely think we should just drop the kids off at the field with a bag of equipment and balls and then have all parents leave."

Ugh, I agree, I can't stand parents at baseball games 90% of the time. lol

[tominct]

Thanks guys for the feedback. There are lots of reasons I posted, and have interest in moving my son. It is much about his development, but there are also other factors.

I happen to be a middle school coach by the way, and the seventh graders who play for me regularly, year in and year out, are kids that have played on some type of transitional field or the major league diamond BEFORE they try out in the spring. Perhaps not in fifth grade, but certainly by the end of sixth or the fall of seventh grade.

Chris insists that he couldn't imagine 7th graders on the big field, which leads me to wonder what besides the inverted W he really knows about baseball. I live in New England and have been around Middle School baseball as a player in the 70's, an umpire in the 80's and 90's and a coach with over 12 years experience, and in all that time, Middle School baseball, (or Junior High baseball as it was known) has ALWAYS been on the 90 foot diamond, and there have always been 7th graders playing! The idea that one "could not imagine" 7th graders on the big diamond betrays some insistance on denying reality.


I understand the comments about friends, that isn't lost on me, or my son.

IMHHO, the age change a couple of years ago was the worst thing. See related thread.

Tom