here's something you don't see everyday

[ipitch]

On Saturday, Skip Schumaker had 6 hits batting leadoff (which is where he normally bats), and today he's batting 9th, with the pitcher batting 8th! :crazy
Leave it to Tony LaRussa.

[STLCards2]

On Saturday, Skip Schumaker had 6 hits batting leadoff (which is where he normally bats), and today he's batting 9th, with the pitcher batting 8th! :crazy
Leave it to Tony LaRussa.

Uncle Skippy is hitting below .190 against lefties- he shouldn't be in the game at all, forget what spot in the order he is.

[NYMets523]

It'd be worse if he was batting 7th ahead of the pitcher.

[deadball-era-rules]

Looney Larussa. I've never been a big fan. If a guy manages the 1980s Oakland As and then goes to the late 1990s-2005 St. Louis Cardinals, he should have way more than two measly World Series trophies. Tony gets a lot of undeserved credit.

[digglahhh]

Looney Larussa. I've never been a big fan. If a guy manages the 1980s Oakland As and then goes to the late 1990s-2005 St. Louis Cardinals, he should have way more than two measly World Series trophies. Tony gets a lot of undeserved credit.

Yeah - his recent teams have clearly underacieved. :confused:

Name a more deserving candidate for Mgr of the Year, please. Look at this freaking roster...

[GiambiJuice]

Yeah - his recent teams have clearly underacieved. :confused:

Name a more deserving candidate for Mgr of the Year, please. Look at this freaking roster...

Here's a list of teams who have 4 players with 18 or more homers:

1. St Louis Cardinals.

LaRussa stinks

[Afterglow]

Here's a list of teams who have 4 players with 18 or more homers:

1. St Louis Cardinals.

LaRussa stinks

Yea man, he totally sucks. Have you seen what he is working with?

The dude has a fully healthy Adam Wainwright. Mark Mulder hasn't lost a game, and is striking out more guys than innings pitched. That and there #1 ace Chris Carpenter has an all-time low ERA of 0.00.

I think Tony should be canned stat.

Hell I could win working with this team.

[GiambiJuice]

Yea man, he totally sucks. Have you seen what he is working with?

The dude has a fully healthy Adam Wainwright. Mark Mulder hasn't lost a game, and is striking out more guys than innings pitched. That and there #1 ace Chris Carpenter has an all-time low ERA of 0.00.

I think Tony should be canned stat.

Hell I could win working with this team.

He overmanages more than anyone in the game. He happens to get saddled with great teams all the time. He is not a good manager.

[Afterglow]

He overmanages more than anyone in the game.

No he doesn't. The reason he puts the pitcher at 8th in the order is to get more guys ahead of Pujols, the second time around in the order.

That and besides Pujols. What else are they doing offensivly in between hitting these homeruns?

How about that amazing bullpen?

Great closer?


He happens to get saddled with great teams all the time.

Cause the last few years are prime examples of that.:hp

He is not a good manager.

I agree.

He is a great manager.

[Captain Cold Nose]

Folks, we are not going to have a rehash of the Billy Beane thread from the other day. LaRussa's managerial ability is an offshoot of Schumaker batting 9th instead of the pitcher, so it's on-topic, but be respectful. Which doesn't mean taking someone's words and twisting them.

An ounce of prevention . . .

[NYMets523]

No he doesn't. The reason he puts the pitcher at 8th in the order is to get more guys ahead of Pujols, the second time around in the order.

Elias proved that La Russa's theory isn't true. Batting the pitcher 8th didn't put more guys on base for Pujols.

[Afterglow]

Elias proved that La Russa's theory isn't true. Batting the pitcher 8th didn't put more guys on base for Pujols.


Does this somehow make him a bad coach?

I like it. He apparently likes it. And he has rings.

That and he is doing it with what could be the definition of overachivers this year.

[digglahhh]

Here's a list of teams who have 4 players with 18 or more homers:

1. St Louis Cardinals.

LaRussa stinks

That's a completely arbitrary cut-off point; it's disingenuous and you know it! The Cards are 7th of 16 NL teams in homers - essentially middle of the pack.

Their closer imploded and then got hurt. His replacement was adequate for a while but has recently channeled the spirit of Eric Gagne. Carpenter hasn't pitched, and Wainwright has been injured. They've gotten about 375 innings from the combination of Lohse, Wellemeyer, and Looper.

Some things have gone their way that you can't necessarily credit LaRussa for, I admit. Molina is having a better season with the bat than could have been expected. Ludwick and Ankiel have really stepped up. Schumaker has been productive. Troy Glaus has been healthy.

I'm just saying, on paper this team shouldn't be contending.

[Afterglow]

That's a completely arbitrary cut-off point; it's disingenuous and you know it! The Cards are 7th of 16 NL teams in homers - essentially middle of the pack.

Their closer imploded and then got hurt. His replacement was adequate for a while but has recently channeled the spirit of Eric Gagne. Carpenter hasn't pitched, and Wainwright has been injured. They've gotten about 375 innings from the combination of Lohse, Wellemeyer, and Looper.

Some things have gone their way that you can't necessarily credit LaRussa for, I admit. Molina is having a better season with the bat than could have been expected. Ludwick and Ankiel have really stepped up. Schumaker has been productive. Troy Glaus has been healthy.

I'm just saying, on paper this team shouldn't be contending.

You could also add Albert getting injured and missing some time to the problems this team has faced.

This team is as tough as nails.

[GiambiJuice]

yep, it's truly amazing that they are in 3rd place in their division despite having Tony Larussa as their manager.

[digglahhh]

yep, it's truly amazing that they are in 3rd place in their division despite having Tony Larussa as their manager.

Care to make any substantive contribution to the discourse here, or are you content undermining your own position in the mids of others just so you can have a few chuckles and amuse yourself?

Look, I dislike LaRussa's persona. I think he's smug and generally unlikeable. He is very good at his job though, and I'm not going to deny him that.

[GiambiJuice]

Care to make any substantive contribution to the discourse here, or are you content undermining your own position in the mids of others just so you can have a few chuckles and amuse yourself?

Look, I dislike LaRussa's persona. I think he's smug and generally unlikeable. He is very good at his job though, and I'm not going to deny him that.

It's all subjective. It's impossible to quantify whether someone is a good manager or not. I rely on my own observations. I have watched LaRussa over the years and I believe he is a terrible manager. That's my opinion. If you don't like it, sue me.

[NYMets523]

Name a more deserving candidate for Mgr of the Year, please. Look at this freaking roster...

That's easy. Freddi Gonzalez

[digglahhh]

That's easy. Freddi Gonzalez

Yeah - that's the other guy with a good case.

[Afterglow]

It's all subjective. It's impossible to quantify whether someone is a good manager or not. I rely on my own observations. I have watched LaRussa over the years and I believe he is a terrible manager. That's my opinion. If you don't like it, sue me.

The problem is, you haven't given an actual reason as to why he is bad.



O, it is amazing that there in third place. On paper they should probably be dead last.

[Imgran]

O, it is amazing that there in third place. On paper they should probably be dead last.

Not in the NL Central they shouldn't. The Pirates, Reds and Astros all clearly belong where they are.

LaRussa gets a lot of credit for the work of Duncan. If the starting rotation didn't hideously outperform every year I doubt LaRussa has the reputation he has. It's that rotation that's the key to the so-called outperformance, and the white-haired old man who keeps everything in order there is the real MVP of the St. Louis Cardinals.

[digglahhh]

It's all subjective. It's impossible to quantify whether someone is a good manager or not. I rely on my own observations. I have watched LaRussa over the years and I believe he is a terrible manager. That's my opinion. If you don't like it, sue me.

You coulda just said that instead of contriving some arbitrary numbers and taking unnecessary shots at the guy.

Would you mind specifying what tendencies/specific decisions LaRussa is prone to that you feel result in negative outcomes for his teams?

When I say "specify," that means that responses like "he overmanages" will be considered non-responses. Give me concrete examples of things he does.

[GiambiJuice]

You coulda just said that instead of contriving some arbitrary numbers and taking unnecessary shots at the guy.

Would you mind specifying what tendencies/specific decisions LaRussa is prone to that you feel result in negative outcomes for his teams?

When I say "specify," that means that responses like "he overmanages" will be considered non-responses. Give me concrete examples of things he does.

just off the top of my head...making a zillion pitching changes and batting the pitcher 8th (defying statistical evidence that it doesn't work)

[redlegsfan21]

Elias proved that La Russa's theory isn't true. Batting the pitcher 8th didn't put more guys on base for Pujols.

I think Elias is wrong here, lets say an inning begins with the #9 batter, and instead of a pitcher batting (probably .160 BA), you have a player batting (STL: .255). So, 1 in every 10 innings, the #9 is getting on when the pitcher normally doesn't, so thats 1 in 10 times that Pujols has someone on base when he normally doesn't. Though the stats won't be different at any other point. So, it depends how many times the inning begins with the #9 batter instead of the #8 batter.

I should point out that the # of runs scored might be the same but Pujols would be taking RBIs from other Cardinal batters.

[digglahhh]

just off the top of my head...making a zillion pitching changes and batting the pitcher 8th (defying statistical evidence that it doesn't work)

Batting the pitcher 8th is a legit gripe if you're not a fan. I don't think it matters all that much. I probably wouldn't do it.

The zillion pitching changes thing isn't really a criticism unless you tell me why it doesn't benefit the team. All teams make a zillion pitching changes.

For example, does he use his lefties too early in games and leave himself without his LOOGYs when premier lefties come up in the late innings of close games? An argument like that would have some merit to it, "making a zillion" pitching changes in and of itself doesn't reflect poor judgment.

[redlegsfan21]

Batting the pitcher 8th is a legit gripe if you're not a fan. I don't think it matters all that much. I probably wouldn't do it.

The zillion pitching changes thing isn't really a criticism unless you tell me why it doesn't benefit the team. All teams make a zillion pitching changes.

For example, does he use his lefties too early in games and leave himself without his LOOGYs when premier lefties come up in the late innings of close games? An argument like that would have some merit to it, "making a zillion" pitching changes in and of itself doesn't reflect poor judgment.

Playing each game like it's Game 7 of the World Series.