Paul Wendt
07-26-2008, 01:00 PM
Prompted regarding Rick Ferrell, last night I wrote this about his generation of catchers in "The < 100 OPS+ HOFers (http://www.baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=80942)" (#9).
Dickey, Hartnett, Ferrell, Lopez, Luke Sewell, and Rollie Hemsley played about as long as any catcher had played (and isn't there a seventh?) --measured in games or full seasons, not simply calendar time.
The "seventh" may be Lombardi or Cochrane. Their careers were not short. Probably because they were great batters and Hemsley was a weak one, they played about equally in careers of different calendar length. There are eleven catchers from this generation with 12.4 down to 8.3 full seasons at catcher (fse fielding games), no one else with even 5.6 seasons. Cochrane did not play after 1937; the ten others played in the majors until 1940-47.
Probably Schalk was a pathbreaker in making catcher almost a one-man job, for more than a decade. Certainly Ferrell a generation later was one of a crowd treading that path, and he wasn't one who surpassed Schalk in that dimension. He was a good batter for a catcher, as Schalk probably wasn't, but the norm was up since Schalk's day --the batting norm as well as the durability norm. Enthusiasm for Schalk's work on the field was and is greater than for Ferrell's (Bill James gives them A and B-(!). All things considered, I put Ferrell at the bottom. I see the case for honoring Schalk as a player, not the case for Ferrell.
This table covers the "early half" of the top 32 catchers thru 2006, by career playing time (fse: shares of team games, denominated in seasons).
underline marks the Hall of Fame members
bold marks the featured generation of catchers (fifth generation)
blue marks the preceding generation
The others listed were all active in the 1880s. No one who debuted in the 1890s or 1900s is even in the top 50 today.
deb fin was is
'28 '47 #1 #5 Al Lopez ___ > 12 full seasons
'29 '47 02 09 Rick Ferrell
'84 '12 01 10 Deacon McGuire
'22 '41 04 12 Gabby Hartnett
'12 '29 02 13 Ray Schalk
'28 '46 06 15 Bill Dickey ___ > 11
'73 '91 01 18 Pop Snyder
'21 '42 08 23 Luke Sewell
'11 '28 04 24 Steve O'Neill
'31 '47 10 26 Ernie Lombardi ___ > 10
'86 '02 03 28 Wilbert Robinson
'28 '47 12 29 Rollie Hemsley
'25 '37 13 30 Mickey Cochrane
'13 '31 06 32 Wally Schang = 9.47 full seasons
Columns 1-2 give the major league career span, debut to finale. Eg, Cochrane 1925 to 1937.
Column 3 gives career rank after the 1947 season, for everyone in the featured generation (bold); career rank at retirement for the other, earlier catchers. Eg, Cochrane #13 through 1947; Snyder #1 at retirement.
Column 4 gives career rank through 2006. Eg, Cochrane #30.
The list gives 14 of the 32 leaders through 2006, everyone from the featured generation and earlier.
The next top-32 catcher by debut is Jim Hegan 1941.
---- more on the top 32
1 "first generation" - Snyder. During 1873-83, with about 60-84 team games, catcher could be almost a one-man job for several seasons.
2 first golden age - McGuire, Robinson
0 early deadballers - Johnny Kling and Co.
3 late deadballers - Schalk, O'Neill, Schang. Schang is two full seasons below Schalk. I went this far down because he is always in the air here, he has been mentioned in this thread, and two times 16 is attractive in mlb history.
8 second golden age, the featured generation - bold
When did the 18 more recent leading catchers debut? 1940s = 3, 0, 5, 5, 2, 3 = 1990s.
---- that covers the top 32
There are three more 1930s catchers with 8 full seasons (normally at least 12 years as a regular).
deb fin #was is
'28 '45 #21 41 Gus Mancuso
'23 '40 #22 42 Jimmie Wilson
'28 '45 #23 53 Spud Davis = 8.32 full seasons
That's all, no one else from that generation in the top 150!
. . .
#150 Charlie Moore, 5.63
#151 Joe Torre, 5.59
So these eleven catchers came along, debuts 1921-31, finales 1937-47. They all did as much catching, measured by career full seasons equivalent, as the twelve leading catcher in four previous generations.
Al Lopez and Rick Ferrell did play longer than anyone previous, surpassing Deacon McGuire. But Cochrane, Dickey, Hartnett, and Lombardi were great batters and they played almost as long as anyone previous. I think people overrated Lopez and Ferrell, and Sewell and Hemsley, and overrated the careers of the four great hitters, because people didn't quickly "catch up" to some changes that partly explain away the relative bulk of their work.
Dickey, Hartnett, Ferrell, Lopez, Luke Sewell, and Rollie Hemsley played about as long as any catcher had played (and isn't there a seventh?) --measured in games or full seasons, not simply calendar time.
The "seventh" may be Lombardi or Cochrane. Their careers were not short. Probably because they were great batters and Hemsley was a weak one, they played about equally in careers of different calendar length. There are eleven catchers from this generation with 12.4 down to 8.3 full seasons at catcher (fse fielding games), no one else with even 5.6 seasons. Cochrane did not play after 1937; the ten others played in the majors until 1940-47.
Probably Schalk was a pathbreaker in making catcher almost a one-man job, for more than a decade. Certainly Ferrell a generation later was one of a crowd treading that path, and he wasn't one who surpassed Schalk in that dimension. He was a good batter for a catcher, as Schalk probably wasn't, but the norm was up since Schalk's day --the batting norm as well as the durability norm. Enthusiasm for Schalk's work on the field was and is greater than for Ferrell's (Bill James gives them A and B-(!). All things considered, I put Ferrell at the bottom. I see the case for honoring Schalk as a player, not the case for Ferrell.
This table covers the "early half" of the top 32 catchers thru 2006, by career playing time (fse: shares of team games, denominated in seasons).
underline marks the Hall of Fame members
bold marks the featured generation of catchers (fifth generation)
blue marks the preceding generation
The others listed were all active in the 1880s. No one who debuted in the 1890s or 1900s is even in the top 50 today.
deb fin was is
'28 '47 #1 #5 Al Lopez ___ > 12 full seasons
'29 '47 02 09 Rick Ferrell
'84 '12 01 10 Deacon McGuire
'22 '41 04 12 Gabby Hartnett
'12 '29 02 13 Ray Schalk
'28 '46 06 15 Bill Dickey ___ > 11
'73 '91 01 18 Pop Snyder
'21 '42 08 23 Luke Sewell
'11 '28 04 24 Steve O'Neill
'31 '47 10 26 Ernie Lombardi ___ > 10
'86 '02 03 28 Wilbert Robinson
'28 '47 12 29 Rollie Hemsley
'25 '37 13 30 Mickey Cochrane
'13 '31 06 32 Wally Schang = 9.47 full seasons
Columns 1-2 give the major league career span, debut to finale. Eg, Cochrane 1925 to 1937.
Column 3 gives career rank after the 1947 season, for everyone in the featured generation (bold); career rank at retirement for the other, earlier catchers. Eg, Cochrane #13 through 1947; Snyder #1 at retirement.
Column 4 gives career rank through 2006. Eg, Cochrane #30.
The list gives 14 of the 32 leaders through 2006, everyone from the featured generation and earlier.
The next top-32 catcher by debut is Jim Hegan 1941.
---- more on the top 32
1 "first generation" - Snyder. During 1873-83, with about 60-84 team games, catcher could be almost a one-man job for several seasons.
2 first golden age - McGuire, Robinson
0 early deadballers - Johnny Kling and Co.
3 late deadballers - Schalk, O'Neill, Schang. Schang is two full seasons below Schalk. I went this far down because he is always in the air here, he has been mentioned in this thread, and two times 16 is attractive in mlb history.
8 second golden age, the featured generation - bold
When did the 18 more recent leading catchers debut? 1940s = 3, 0, 5, 5, 2, 3 = 1990s.
---- that covers the top 32
There are three more 1930s catchers with 8 full seasons (normally at least 12 years as a regular).
deb fin #was is
'28 '45 #21 41 Gus Mancuso
'23 '40 #22 42 Jimmie Wilson
'28 '45 #23 53 Spud Davis = 8.32 full seasons
That's all, no one else from that generation in the top 150!
. . .
#150 Charlie Moore, 5.63
#151 Joe Torre, 5.59
So these eleven catchers came along, debuts 1921-31, finales 1937-47. They all did as much catching, measured by career full seasons equivalent, as the twelve leading catcher in four previous generations.
Al Lopez and Rick Ferrell did play longer than anyone previous, surpassing Deacon McGuire. But Cochrane, Dickey, Hartnett, and Lombardi were great batters and they played almost as long as anyone previous. I think people overrated Lopez and Ferrell, and Sewell and Hemsley, and overrated the careers of the four great hitters, because people didn't quickly "catch up" to some changes that partly explain away the relative bulk of their work.