Please help with son's swing

[The Duece]

My son plays for a 9-year-old Little League team, as well as a select team. He is coming off a spring season where he struggled to adjust to "kid pitch" baseball (he was in machine pitch). He was swinging at bad pitches and taking perfect ones--the classic definition of a slump. He has since come on nicely, becoming more aggressive and attacking the good pitches. He has plenty of pop on his bat. He recently hit his first home run in a game over the 200 ft. fences, which his moon shot cleared easily. Although I am thrilled and humbled by his natural power (he is the only kid in his league's age group to hit one out), I would like to get him hitting more consistently and avoiding the strikeouts. A typical game for him is this: K, BB, Triple. That's hitting .500, I know, but I think its very strange to look at his stats and see him with 8 triples and only one single, to go along with 10 strikeouts. I have experimented with the idea of having him swing only at 80% in order to try and trade a little power for consistency, but it just messes up his timing.

Would you guys mind taking a look at his swing and offering any comments or suggestions? Its hard for a dad to look at his own son without prejudice, and I would appreciate hearing what you guys think of his stroke, and how it can be improved. Thank you in advance.

This clip is a batting practice shot off the center-left field fence. It has been slowed down slightly:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kWS8HGZrnjo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kWS8HGZrnjo

[brewers96]

Ok, I watched it about 5 times and this is what I got:

1. Keep hands about shoulder height. (couldn't really see this)
2. He shouldn't be moving his left foot that far out.

This is all I could see wrong. Have him try this and see what happens.

Good Luck!

brewers96

[Drill]

Looks big for his age, I would say wait till he grows more but well you know he looks more mature than the regular nine year old.

Right now i would just change his approach to what he swings at when up at the plate and situation hitting.

Basics you can wait on your pitch at this level till the pitcher gets one over. He has two free swings to wait for his pitch. Teach him how to choke up and protect the plate on the third strike and have him be aware of where the runners are on base.

If he learns that when he gets really bigger or goes up to the big feild he will be ahead of the game.

Find a local batting coach, have him check his basic out. Stance hands and basic swing from start to finish, for his age and size.

He looks good for his age but just looking at one video and one pitch i cannot tell if his stance is to wide at the end of his swing. So please find someone local to watch him.


find a local coach, it looks like he has a pretty good swing for his age and size.


drill

[azmatsfan]

He has a great swing for a 9-year-old. If he's hitting HRs and Triples when he connects then I wouldn't mess too much with his swing. The transition from machine to live pitching is hard. They're use to every pitch being a strike over the middle of the plate. It may just be a matter of pitch selection and recognizing the pitch location sooner. I definitely wouldn't tell him to swing at 80%.

[new2thesport]

I thought that the swing had everything that I read in here about a good bat swing. "no bat drag", "front leg straight and back leg bent", "hips was first".
To me, the swing looks stiff though. Thats the best word I can describe it as since I dont know what it is.
disclaimer: I am not a coach and not an instructor, I am a learning parent who came to baseball fever to learn.
I am curious to see what the knowledgeable ones here at baseball fever will say of the swing.

[mightylakers]

Man he looks like a 13 yo kid and swing like 13 yo.

IMO

1) He seems to squish the bug a little.

2) His upper body lunging a little? Maybe because of the pitch location. Still he can wait a little longer and let the ball come deep in the zone.

How is he doing with fast pitches?

[Go Cardinals]

Ok, I watched it about 5 times and this is what I got:

1. Keep hands about shoulder height. (couldn't really see this)
2. He shouldn't be moving his left foot that far out.

This is all I could see wrong. Have him try this and see what happens.

Good Luck!

brewers96

how are any of these a problem? mlb hitters represent many different styles including some of which you said was wrong.

[brewers96]

how are any of these a problem? mlb hitters represent many different styles including some of which you said was wrong.

I never said that these were problems.

I just know from past experience I've been told to keep my hands about shoulder height. This helps especially for a young player because you don't have to go through all that other stuff that slow their swing down.

The whole foot thing just shows that he's hitting for power. If he's trying to get the perfect pitch to pull it out of the park, he's not concentrating on just making contact.

[TG Coach]

You should focus on his mechanics and not stats. Don't push him he's only nine. If he loves playing he'll ask for help. Don't get all excited about his nine year old accomplishments. I'm guessing he's bigger than most kids. Just enjoy him playing the game. Never teach a kid to swing 80%. Teach him to swing properly and in control.

How tall is he? How tall are you? How tall is his mother?

[jbooth]

My son plays for a 9-year-old Little League team, as well as a select team. He is coming off a spring season where he struggled to adjust to "kid pitch" baseball (he was in machine pitch). He was swinging at bad pitches and taking perfect ones--the classic definition of a slump. He has since come on nicely, becoming more aggressive and attacking the good pitches. He has plenty of pop on his bat. He recently hit his first home run in a game over the 200 ft. fences, which his moon shot cleared easily. Although I am thrilled and humbled by his natural power (he is the only kid in his league's age group to hit one out), I would like to get him hitting more consistently and avoiding the strikeouts. A typical game for him is this: K, BB, Triple. That's hitting .500, I know, but I think its very strange to look at his stats and see him with 8 triples and only one single, to go along with 10 strikeouts. I have experimented with the idea of having him swing only at 80% in order to try and trade a little power for consistency, but it just messes up his timing.

Would you guys mind taking a look at his swing and offering any comments or suggestions? Its hard for a dad to look at his own son without prejudice, and I would appreciate hearing what you guys think of his stroke, and how it can be improved. Thank you in advance.

This clip is a batting practice shot off the center-left field fence. It has been slowed down slightly:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kWS8HGZrnjo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kWS8HGZrnjo

That is a good swing no matter what age, but exceptionally good for a 9 YO.

The K's are probably from not being used to live arm pitching and not having a good mental plan for the at-bat. Hard to get 9 year-olds to be mentally disciplined at the plate.

Teach him what Ted Williams always told hitters, "Get a GOOD pitch to hit."

[Mark H]

Stands straight up and fans his front leg open to initiate rotation but the arms may be fine. Perhaps Booth will convert it to gif or something we can watch in slo mo. In any case, it would be interesting and informative to see him swing at something below the shoulders. Preferably thigh high or lower.

[jbooth]

Stands straight up and fans his front leg open to initiate rotation but the arms may be fine. Perhaps Booth will convert it to gif or something we can watch in slo mo. In any case, it would be interesting and informative to see him swing at something below the shoulders. Preferably thigh high or lower.

I don't see that. And, I'm not sure what you mean by "fans the front leg open."

He turns his front toes toward the pitcher a little, no different from what Ted Williams did. He's pushing from the backside and rotating into foot plant as far as I can tell.

http://firstpickclub.com/video/patricka1.gif

http://firstpickclub.com/video/patricka2.gif

Drops the back elbow as the hips turn, lags the bathead, gets the hips turned fully and the weight off the back foot when the bathead is in the lag position and whips the hands inside the ball. I don't know how a 9 yo could do it much better.

I don't see a whole lot of difference between him and this guy;

http://firstpickclub.com/video/pujolsside1.gif

Patrick turns the hip a tiny bit early into foot plant and could keep the shoulder in a tiny bit longer, but he's 9 and Albert's one of the best ever.

[Mark H]

He does connect well. Let's see a clip on a low pitch. One thing he could sure improve on is his bp pitcher. :)

[bob_r]

Although he looks very big for nine, that bat looks too big to me - what size is it?

[dannyboy]

jbooth,

in all sincerity, - good for you again.

Seems like a 180 from this post:
http://www.baseball-fever.com/showpost.php?p=1253876&postcount=40

and I agree. Really.

I’d like for you to talk more about “the other stuff”, - the other stuff that goes into hitting as opposed to swinging. The other stuff that, in addition to mechanics, make a complete hitter.

You said:
Teach him what Ted Williams always told hitters, "Get a GOOD pitch to hit."


How?

How do you teach it, Jim?

[Ursa Major]

First year of kid pitch can be tough for anyone, even if they have a lot of pop. But, this is a big kid and a very good swing for this age group.

It really would help to hear what kind of pitches he has trouble with. This clip shows a meatball above the waist, which he should feast on with this swing. As MarkH notes, the real key is how he does on the low and/or outside strikes. Does he tilt over at those at all, or does he remain erect and just try to extend his arms down to reach them?

While we can debate about whether he does fan the front knee open early, he does not load the front knee at all, so it may well be that he opens up on the outside pitches. It may be worthwhile as a drill to try him to hit some BP pitches with an exaggerated loading/closing of his front knee, to see if that helps him on outside pitches (with the incidental benefit of perhaps giving him more pop on all pitches). In fact, you can use as a model for this drill the Pujols swing that Jim Booth compares his too. (Indeed, that IS the key difference between his and the Pujols swing.) :shhh:

But, it doesn't look like he overswings now, so I wouldn't tell him to cut down his swing. At that age, you may just get slow bat speed and muck up his rhythm. He may just need to see a lot more pitches and, as Jim notes, get a mental plan and a little focus when he goes up to the plate.

And, like any 9 year old, he may 'drive you crazy' -- if you let it -- by swinging at lousy pitches and then letting good pitches go by. Be calm and use it as a learning experience ... and enjoy the ride. You're gonna see a lot more home runs over the next few years.

[callyjr]

I don't see that. And, I'm not sure what you mean by "fans the front leg open."

He turns his front toes toward the pitcher a little, no different from what Ted Williams did. He's pushing from the backside and rotating into foot plant as far as I can tell.

http://firstpickclub.com/video/patricka1.gif

http://firstpickclub.com/video/patricka2.gif

Drops the back elbow as the hips turn, lags the bathead, gets the hips turned fully and the weight off the back foot when the bathead is in the lag position and whips the hands inside the ball. I don't know how a 9 yo could do it much better.

I don't see a whole lot of difference between him and this guy;

http://firstpickclub.com/video/pujolsside1.gif

Patrick turns the hip a tiny bit early into foot plant and could keep the shoulder in a tiny bit longer, but he's 9 and Albert's one of the best ever.

I see a lot of difference, his back foot is not getting pulled through like Pujols ,its turning, the knee doesn't jerk forward. The kid is not using his lower body half as much as Pujols does.

[jbooth]

jbooth,

in all sincerity, - good for you again.

Seems like a 180 from this post:
http://www.baseball-fever.com/showpost.php?p=1253876&postcount=40

and I agree. Really.

I’d like for you to talk more about “the other stuff”, - the other stuff that goes into hitting as opposed to swinging. The other stuff that, in addition to mechanics, make a complete hitter.

You said:

How?

How do you teach it, Jim?

It's not a 180. I said you could talk mental aspects once they have a good swing. He has a good swing.

I still don't think a 9 YO is going to apply whatever you try to teach them. As I said, their brains aren't connected well yet. There are some exceptions, but most will not execute any part of the plan that you give them. Just my experience, maybe others have had better luck.

[jbooth]

I see a lot of difference, his back foot is not getting pulled through like Pujols ,its turning, the knee doesn't jerk forward. The kid is not using his lower body half as much as Pujols does.

No sh$$, he's 9 and Albert is an elite pro. And, I believe I said he wasn't the same as Albert, I said he was close.

[dannyboy]

jbooth,

ok, not 180.

you said:
Teach him what Ted Williams always told hitters, "Get a GOOD pitch to hit."

how do you teach it, Jim?

[brett]

His hips should start sooner ahead of the shoulders. He is having to start his shoulders too early. His bat would have to be moving forward before the pitch.

[jbooth]

He does connect well. Let's see a clip on a low pitch. One thing he could sure improve on is his bp pitcher. :)

Here's a lower pitch.

http://firstpickclub.com/video/lowerpitch.gif

He should land on a bent front leg and get on it more, before starting the hands. The leg should straighten just before contact.

[Chris O'Leary]

Here's a lower pitch.

http://firstpickclub.com/video/lowerpitch.gif

He seems to be lunging a bit.

I'd love to see the frame at the Point Of Contact. This clips has a couple of frames before and after, so you can only guess what he looks like at the POC.

[Sammy]

I'm wondering why no one has mentioned a load pattern. Granted he's only 9, but any powerful swing starts with a load. He's doing what most kids do with no formal hitting instruction, which is "stride and swing the arms". I disagree with the thought that a 9 yr. old cannot be taught the basics of a high level swing. Sorry, but it's more a statement about the teacher than the student.

So, instead of just a "stride and swing" from his basic stance, why not teach him to load - like Pujols? Front foot lifts, hips slightly reverse-rotate. Then as he strides forward, the hands stay back at roughly shoulder level until toe touch.

That's very simplified, and there's a LOT more to it than that, but it's a start towards having a more powerful swing. I just hate to see 14 & 15 yr. old kids going into high school that still swing like this - and there are a TON who do! But NOW is the time for this boy to start working at a powerful swing. Congrats, Duece for starting him now!

[Catchingcoach]

Looks big for his age, I would say wait till he grows more but well you know he looks more mature than the regular nine year old.

Right now i would just change his approach to what he swings at when up at the plate and situation hitting.

Basics you can wait on your pitch at this level till the pitcher gets one over. He has two free swings to wait for his pitch. Teach him how to choke up and protect the plate on the third strike and have him be aware of where the runners are on base.

If he learns that when he gets really bigger or goes up to the big feild he will be ahead of the game.

Find a local batting coach, have him check his basic out. Stance hands and basic swing from start to finish, for his age and size.

He looks good for his age but just looking at one video and one pitch i cannot tell if his stance is to wide at the end of his swing. So please find someone local to watch him.


find a local coach, it looks like he has a pretty good swing for his age and size.


drill

Drill,

Did you get the Private Message from Catching Coach??

[callyjr]

No sh$$, he's 9 and Albert is an elite pro. And, I believe I said he wasn't the same as Albert, I said he was close.

actually this is what you said.

I don't see a whole lot of difference between him and this guy;

this guy was the clip of Pujols.

[jbooth]

I don't see a whole lot of difference between him and this guy;



"Don't see a lot of difference", and "not the same", and "close" all mean the same thing.

I never said, there was NO difference, or that they were the SAME, or EQUAL.

YOU said, "I see a LOT of difference." I said, "I DON'T see a whole LOT of difference." Which implies that there is SOME difference.

[BoardMember]

Although a good swing for a 9 year old, there are a few major issues being developed........

http://i35.tinypic.com/2coslzq.gif.........http://i35.tinypic.com/10ibeqt.gif........http://i36.tinypic.com/2dtd9xu.gif
http://i38.tinypic.com/2aiospg.gif..........http://i38.tinypic.com/2hmezrk.gif

[azmatsfan]

I see a couple of the same problems in that last swing that I'm seeing with my 10 yr old. Instead of tilting to hit the low pitch, he's reaching down. And he's not staying back on the slower pitch so he ends up becoming disconnected at contact.

[The Duece]

BoardMember, would you please elaborate some more about your post for me. I would be interested about your thoughts. Thanks in advance.

[The Duece]

Please let me thank everyone for your thoughtful analysis of my son's swing. You've given me a bunch of ideas with which to move forward and teach my son. Just to clarify, he plays on a nine-year-old little league and select team, but in reality he just turned 10 years old. The clip makes him appear older and bigger than he is. There are probably 4 guys taller than him on his team. He does have a big upper body, however, and he projects the image of a kid that is about to hit the crap out of the ball. He feasts on high pitches, especially, and inside balls that he can turn on. His problem is with pitches that are low or away. Thus, he gets way up on the plate so that a pitch right over the middle is a little inside like he likes it. His recent home runs in practice and the game have been to center field, but he tends to be out front. He hardly ever singles, its either extra bases or strikeouts, feast or famine. I would like to shorten the periods of famine.

After bragging to you guys about his recent dinger, he promptly went out tonight and struck out twice against a good little pitcher.

That's baseball!

[BoardMember]

BoardMember, would you please elaborate some more about your post for me. I would be interested about your thoughts. Thanks in advance.

Duece, I'll keep in simple terms:

1.) He falls onto the front leg. Fix: A good load includes "sitting into the back leg" a bit, so the forward stride is a Level Move to slightly upward explosion that occurs as the front leg block extends.

Keeping the positive move level is critical to maintaining a consistant plane to contact. Many hitters "choose a plane", then sabotage that plane with "vertical fall" into contact, causing quick "handsy" adjustments that rob the timing and power of the swing.

SIT/REACH/PUSH is the best way I've found to maintain a Level Positive move into foot plant/rotation. When we do this, squared contact percentages increase quickly.

Watch the horizontal line through the belt line from launch to contact on these hitters when compared to your son:

http://i38.tinypic.com/2aiospg.gifhttp://i38.tinypic.com/2hmezrk.gifhttp://i36.tinypic.com/2dtd9xu.gif

2.) Falling onto the front leg is a MAJOR cause of lunging and loss of balance.

Unlike pitchers who do fall onto the front leg, our hitters need to keep the eyes "behind contact" in order to square the bat/ball.

IF the hitter falls onto the front leg, and creates a forward bend in the torso toward the pitcher, he/she WILL make an adjustment by moving the hands out early, way out in front to make sure contact is in front of the eyes.

This is a MAJOR cause of early disconnection and is a large reason for an armsy swing that is ALWAYS WAY out in front...........

A lot of instuctors don't understand this reason for early disconnection.

Staying behind contact with proper posture is the biggest assistant to connection........:)