Open letter to Maddux, Glavine and Smoltz

[abolishthedh]

After listening to the game last night between the Cardinals and Padres, Greg Maddux took the loss to fall to 3-8. Here is his full boxscore line:

IP...Hits...ER......Walks......Ks......HR
4....8.......6.......1.............4......1

With this in mind, I'm posting this open letter to the three pitchers to do the right thing. It might help their chances to be inducted into the Hall together, as at least some of us think of them.

And so it has come to this. Greg, your last victory was May 10th. You've had some quality starts since then against the Cubs, Dodgers, Tigers and Marlins. But victories are harder and harder to come by for older pitchers because of the fact that 6 innings appears to be your limit. This is not news. In between these 'quality starts', you're not helping your team by being out there. You are getting pounded like Steve Carlton was in his final year. Announcers spend their time discussing your older day performances. In last night's game, the announcers discussed how hard you threw when you first came up. You actually threw your fastball at 95mph once! Today's younger fans would never know because we can't tell you from Jamie Moyer. And there's nothing wrong with that-- Jamie is a fine pitcher, but Jamie is not headed for the Hall with the chance to go in with his former teammates. Please spare us the sight of seeing you out there in a poor imitation of how you've pitched for 20 years.

Tom, your turn. There is nothing left to achieve, and the Braves will not be headed to the playoffs this year because there are three teams ahead of yours who are stronger and healthier. One of those teams is the hottest team in the league. Try not to think of them as your former team. You haven't pitched since June 10th, when you felt the discomfort which has you on the 15day DL with a sore left elbow. Last that I counted, this is more than 15 days ago. We baseball fans know that something is up. As I have said to your friend, Greg, older pitchers need to pitch at least 6 solid innings in order to make a significant and positive impact on the team. Before you were hurt, you made it this far 4 times out of 10. Some of those starts were in tough luck, but that's how it is for older pitchers.... you will pitch in tough luck fairly often when your team doesn't score much for you. You don't want that elbow to continue hurting so much you can't play golf:)

John, heads up. The Braves have apparently just placed you on the 60-day DL after your stay on the 15 day DL. Now, I'll admit that I have forgotten when that 15 day DL stint began. However, you were placed on the 60day list on July 7th, and that was certainly more than 15 days after the original announcement. Braves fans were saddened by all this because you had been pitching so well. However, I am hoping your 2 well known friends will also announce an upcoming retirement and that you'll join them before you go through what they are going through. Call Tom and ask him about those playoff chances please, because it pains me to see you in denial.

Would the three of you please consider a joint announcement and retire together, and then take time to heal your wounds and your pride on the golf course? You can settle up on the course on who goes first on your Hall acceptance speeches, and with today's gas prices, we fans can budget for only one visit to Cooperstown. It'll be a 3-for-one deal, and charging it won't seem so outrageous.

Here are the three pitchers' lines as of 07/19/08:

.......................W/L.............ERA...........IP............H....... ..W.........K........HR
Maddux.............3-8............4.21.........124...........132......2 5........63......12
Glavine..............2-3............4.85.........59.3 ........60 ........33.......34.......9
Smoltz...............3-2............2.57.........28............25........ .8........36.......2

[blacksilverfan12]

Nice idea. Kind of sad, to see three great pitchers retire at once. But sadly, they're done. All three of them. Hopefully they take your advice and retire together

[SamtheBravesFan]

Nice idea. Kind of sad, to see three great pitchers retire at once. But sadly, they're done. All three of them. Hopefully they take your advice and retire together

I hardly think Maddux is "done". He's stuck on a team with the second-worst offense in the majors and he has 10 no-decisions. If he's traded to a contender, he'll "magically" become better.

[BlueBlood]

Are we really to believe that the institution that hasn't elected Blyleven because he didn't reach 300 Wins will elect Smoltz right away? Glavine/Maddux are locks because they reached the arbitrary statistic, but Smoltz could be waiting quite some time.

[redlegsfan21]

Are we really to believe that the institution that hasn't elected Blyleven because he didn't reach 300 Wins will elect Smoltz right away? Glavine/Maddux are locks because they reached the arbitrary statistic, but Smoltz could be waiting quite some time.

They'll elect Smoltz because he was one of the best in two aspects of pitching, starting and finishing. Plus he is the only person to have 200+ wins and 150+ saves.

[The Splendid Splinter]

Do you know that beside last night and 3 other games- if you take those games out for Maddux... he would have a 2.56 ERA for the season!!!

Yes... there are a couple games where he just loses it, but beside those 4 games..... he's been amazing. That said... those 4 games REALLY bring his numbers down cuz they are horrible. His run support gotta be one of the worst this year for a SP... it's like 3.2 RS/9. If he played anywhere that had a decent offense, he would've passed Clemens in wins already and be among the leaderboard.

I don't think Maddux is done though.

[STLCards2]

Are we really to believe that the institution that hasn't elected Blyleven because he didn't reach 300 Wins will elect Smoltz right away? Glavine/Maddux are locks because they reached the arbitrary statistic, but Smoltz could be waiting quite some time.

nevermind who deserves it more, but Smoltz has been recieving the "Future Hall of Famer" tag for about 2-3 years now. Once that happens at this stage of a career, it is over. Unfortunatley, nobody ever used that phrase when Blyleven was pitching. Smoltz will get in first or second ballot-probably joininhg Maddux and/or Glavine.

[Los Bravos]

nevermind who deserves it more, but Smoltz has been recieving the "Future Hall of Famer" tag for about 2-3 years now. Once that happens at this stage of a career, it is over. Unfortunatley, nobody ever used that phrase when Blyleven was pitching. Smoltz will get in first or second ballot-probably joininhg Maddux and/or Glavine.Agreed. I'm not going over John's resumé, yet again, but another aspect to consider is that with all of his injuries and consequent missed time, it's very hard to dismiss him as a "compiler."

[yamsi12]

good letter.

I was at a Maddux game 4-23-08 when he didnt get his 350th win, then I was at the may 10th game when he did. It was nice to see 350, dont know if any pitchers will ever reach that number after him.

[parlo]

Do you know that beside last night and 3 other games- if you take those games out for Maddux... he would have a 2.56 ERA for the season!!!

Yes... there are a couple games where he just loses it, but beside those 4 games..... he's been amazing. That said... those 4 games REALLY bring his numbers down cuz they are horrible. His run support gotta be one of the worst this year for a SP... it's like 3.2 RS/9. If he played anywhere that had a decent offense, he would've passed Clemens in wins already and be among the leaderboard.

I don't think Maddux is done though.Removing 20% of a pitchers bad starts would significantly alter almost any pitchers numbers. Maddux has the misfortune of being on a terrible team, but he has also benefitted from pitching in spacious Petco Park.
2008 Home/Away Maddux
Home: 2.51, Away: 6.27 If we toss out his road games, his ERA is very good .
Another thing that hurts Maddux is that he has too many games where he only goes 5-6 innings.

[Afterglow]

Another thing that hurts Maddux is that he has too many games where he only goes 5-6 innings.


How old is he? 41? On your hand, could you name me the pitchers at that age who would routinely pitch more than that in this day and age? And don't give me any PED suspects either.

Infact give me someone from any era who did that at that age.

And when it comes to his home-road splits. Most of the Padres pitchers have splits like that.

[parlo]

How old is he? 41? On your hand, could you name me the pitchers at that age who would routinely pitch more than that in this day and age? And don't give me any PED suspects either.

Infact give me someone from any era who did that at that age.

And when it comes to his home-road splits. Most of the Padres pitchers have splits like that.I am not criticizing Maddux, I am just responding to an earlier post that makes it seem as if he is still in his pitching prime.

[SamtheBravesFan]

I am not criticizing Maddux, I am just responding to an earlier post that makes it seem as if he is still in his pitching prime.

Well, of course he's not in his pitching prime. Everyone knows that. He's just not so bad that he needs to retire. He's not like Steve Carlton was at the end of his career.

[Afterglow]

I am not criticizing Maddux, I am just responding to an earlier post that makes it seem as if he is still in his pitching prime.

It seemed like you were saying he was worse than he really was. The dude can still pitch decently.

[janduscframe]

This may surprise you. Entering last season, old goat Doyle Alexander had one more win than the kid named Smoltz... 194 to 193. I realize the bullpen work cost Smoltz some wins, but I still think that's kind of a flukey, I would never have guessed that stat..

[parlo]

It seemed like you were saying he was worse than he really was. The dude can still pitch decently.He can pitch "decently", but I dont think he has been "amazing" as Splendid Splinter stated. I think it is a flawed argument to state what his ERA would be if you removed the worst 20% of his starts this year. Every pitchers numbers would be significantly better if you remove the bottom 20%.
He has also really struggled in road games.
I think he can still pitch, and would love to see him on a contender this year.

[SamtheBravesFan]

He can pitch "decently", but I dont think he has been "amazing" as Splendid Splinter stated.

I think Splinter meant that Maddux is amazing for a guy his age.

[parlo]

I think Splinter meant that Maddux is amazing for a guy his age.Fair enough, I may have misinterpreted it.
Maddux has certainly been hurt by the lack of run support, but he has also been helped by Petco. It would be nice to see him on a contender. For a while I thought he was going to go to the Braves or Cubs, but that may no longer be the case.

[SamtheBravesFan]

Fair enough, I may have misinterpreted it.
Maddux has certainly been hurt by the lack of run support, but he has also been helped by Petco. It would be nice to see him on a contender. For a while I thought he was going to go to the Braves or Cubs, but that may no longer be the case.

That is my guess, because... well, Maddux is up there in years.

Greg has a full no-trade clause in his contract. The only team that I think he'll want to be traded to is the Dodgers, and I'm skeptical of that happening. He'll probably stay with the Padres.

[GiambiJuice]

Smoltz was much better than Blyleven. Where is this comparison coming from?

[Captain Cold Nose]

Smoltz was much better than Blyleven. Where is this comparison coming from?

Post #4. Not really a comparison, though.

[Old Sweater]

I hardly think Maddux is "done". He's stuck on a team with the second-worst offense in the majors and he has 10 no-decisions. If he's traded to a contender, he'll "magically" become better.

Maddux may not want to be traded away from PETCO.
2008
Home 2.51era 11 games
Away 6.27era 10 games

The anti Coors hurts the Padres hitters at home mentally like the Rox on the road.

[SamtheBravesFan]

Maddux may not want to be traded away from PETCO.
2008
Home 2.51era 11 games
Away 6.27era 10 games

The anti Coors hurts the Padres hitters at home mentally like the Rox on the road.

They seem to hit a little worse at home vs. the road (.012/.003/.019 increase when they go on the road), but it does stand to reason that Maddux isn't going to be winning many more games if he stays in San Diego.

[sturg1dj]

Are we really to believe that the institution that hasn't elected Blyleven because he didn't reach 300 Wins will elect Smoltz right away? Glavine/Maddux are locks because they reached the arbitrary statistic, but Smoltz could be waiting quite some time.

first of all let me state for the record that I am a Blyleven supporter


Smoltz is a bigger name than Blyleven. You wanna talk arbitrary, Smoltz has 77 fewer wins than Blyleven. He also has 154 more saves. What helps Smoltz is that he pitched in 40 postseason games while Blyleven pitched in only 5 (which is not his fault at all, and if you look at the numbers he was great in those games.)

I just think Smoltz is a lock because the media has been saying he is for years. and if the three retire at the same time then they will all go in at the same time Tinkers, Evers, Chance style

[GiambiJuice]

first of all let me state for the record that I am a Blyleven supporter


Smoltz is a bigger name than Blyleven. You wanna talk arbitrary, Smoltz has 77 fewer wins than Blyleven. He also has 154 more saves. What helps Smoltz is that he pitched in 40 postseason games while Blyleven pitched in only 5 (which is not his fault at all, and if you look at the numbers he was great in those games.)

I just think Smoltz is a lock because the media has been saying he is for years. and if the three retire at the same time then they will all go in at the same time Tinkers, Evers, Chance style

...and because Smoltz was a MUCH better pitcher. It's really not even close.

[sturg1dj]

...and because Smoltz was a MUCH better pitcher. It's really not even close.

well I thought the same thing initially, then I took a quick look at the numbers


they are closer than you think

[geezer]

Well, tonight might be Greg Maddux last start as a Padre, against the Reds, I hope he goes on a winning note.

[abolishthedh]

IMHO, my assumption on Smoltz making the Hall is largely based on his action of 'taking one for the team' by going to the bullpen when he was asked to do so. I don't remember the specifics, but I thought someone asked him about the idea and he agreed to do it. This is very unusual for a player of his profile and impact potential. He then proved at least a few critics and cynics wrong by reconverting to a successful starter. I know of no parallel to this in baseball history, and if anyone has a comparable story, please share.

[SamtheBravesFan]

IMHO, my assumption on Smoltz making the Hall is largely based on his action of 'taking one for the team' by going to the bullpen when he was asked to do so. I don't remember the specifics, but I thought someone asked him about the idea and he agreed to do it. This is very unusual for a player of his profile and impact potential. He then proved at least a few critics and cynics wrong by reconverting to a successful starter. I know of no parallel to this in baseball history, and if anyone has a comparable story, please share.

There is no direct comparison. Not even Dennis Eckersley went back to starting. This is why Smoltz has the "unique" thing going for him.

[The Splendid Splinter]

There is no direct comparison. Not even Dennis Eckersley went back to starting. This is why Smoltz has the "unique" thing going for him.

To a lesser extent and not as good... Ryan Dempster basically joined Smoltz in that category.

[SamtheBravesFan]

To a lesser extent and not as good... Ryan Dempster basically joined Smoltz in that category.

Aha. You're right about that. I suppose what could make Smoltz look better then is that he did it at age 38 after pretty severe injury problems.

[JoVision]

Off Topic

Sam . . . might wanna check chips numbers in the rbi column in your signature

[SamtheBravesFan]

Off Topic

Sam . . . might wanna check chips numbers in the rbi column in your signature

I haven't updated it in a couple of days, so of course it would be wrong either way. :P I'll fix it.

[geezer]

Maddux finally won last night.