The tie that could have been

[Lovernotafighter]

A sacrifice fly by Michael Young that plated Justin Morneau in the 15th inning, ended the longest All-Star game in league history. More importantly, it avoided another embarrassing tie for Bud Selig and MLB.

Follow this link to read more:

http://www.hardballreport.com/content/view/1320/86/

[Solrac]

The game would have been played until there was a winner.

[zahavasdad]

JD Drew and David wright were gonna pitch in the 17th Inning

The game would not have lasted very long

[Knick9]

JD Drew and David wright were gonna pitch in the 17th Inning

The game would not have lasted very long

True, but that would exactly prove how much of a hypocrite Bud Selig really is. When the All-Star Game meant nothing in 2002, Selig called it a tie, and the possibility of any position players pitching were never brought up. But now, when the All-Star Game supposedly "counts", if you run out of pitchers again, Selig feels just fine having position players pitching to determine HFA for the World Series, right?

That's one reason why I was rooting for a tie game. Trust me, an embarassed Selig would try to get of Dodge in that scenario.

[rockin500]

True, but that would exactly prove how much of a hypocrite Bud Selig really is. When the All-Star Game meant nothing in 2002, Selig called it a tie, and the possibility of any position players pitching were never brought up. But now, when the All-Star Game supposedly "counts", if you run out of pitchers again, Selig feels just fine having position players pitching to determine HFA for the World Series, right?

That's one reason why I was rooting for a tie game. Trust me, an embarassed Selig would try to get of Dodge in that scenario.
position players pitch in a regular season game so i fail to see what the difference is (since that could affect a playoff spot or not). It is what it is.

[spark240]

In a way, it might have been nice to see position players sent out to pitch... it would have provided an incentive for future ASG managers to actually manage their rosters, almost like a real baseball game.

[Honus Wagner Rules]

Why does Selig get blamed for the 2002 All Star game tie? He wasn't mananging either team. Sounds more like Selig hatred. :rolleyes:

[YankeeDJW]

This is why the whole homefield advantage for the winner is absurd. Selig is trying to make it a fun exhibition game as well as something important to potential playoff teams. It just doesn't work. I think having a position player pitch in '02 (or '08) would've made it exciting and fun. Instead, you sit their hoping the pitcher throws an eight pitch inning so he can come out and pitch the next. Players press at the plate and on the field because of the added pressure; it just doesn't fit in with all the preceding festivities. Just make the game fun and tell the manager a tie is unacceptable.

[NYMets523]

A sacrifice fly by Michael Young that plated Justin Morneau in the 15th inning, ended the longest All-Star game in league history. More importantly, it avoided another embarrassing tie for Bud Selig and MLB.

Follow this link to read more:

http://www.hardballreport.com/content/view/1320/86/

That article says Papelbon blew the save. He gave up the go ahead run. Billy Wagner blew the save.

[blacksilverfan12]

The only good thing about a possible tie would that it be it could prevent injury. If Kazmir or Lidge has to go out for a 16th inning and has some serious injury, all of a sudden this isn't some fun little exhibition. It's one team's playoff chances going down the drain. That would make Selig look worse than a tie would

[PeteF3]

Both Hurdle and Francona managed to the point where they had bullets in the holster for the 15th inning. I'm not sure what more could have been asked of them.

Admittedly, I was puzzled by Francona using K-Rod to get 1 out, but that's not a big thing. Sometimes games go long and you just plain run out of players, even in games that really do count.

At some point, you're sacrificing your own chances to win in 9 innings because you're saving Roy Halladay in case he has to start the 18th.

[spark240]

Both Hurdle and Francona managed to the point where they had bullets in the holster for the 15th inning. I'm not sure what more could have been asked of them.

Look at the rosters they had! Other than Cook, was any pitcher on either side really utilized well, relative to their abilities?

At some point, you're sacrificing your own chances to win in 9 innings because you're saving Roy Halladay in case he has to start the 18th.

With Halladay available, I suspect your chances are best if you use him to start the first inning, and don't pull him after the second...

The only good thing about a possible tie would that it be it could prevent injury. If Kazmir or Lidge has to go out for a 16th inning and has some serious injury, all of a sudden this isn't some fun little exhibition. It's one team's playoff chances going down the drain.

What, an injury to a starter in the second inning, that's still fun?

Again, if Kazmir or anyone else isn't really there to play, then he shouldn't be there at all.

[blacksilverfan12]

What, an injury to a starter in the second inning, that's still fun?

No, I meant if any injury happens

[sturg1dj]

they should just cancel the all-star game and let everyone rest for 3 days. I mean I like the all-star game and all but making it mean anything is absurd. It was just an exhibition to show off the talent of the players and give fans something to watch. So what if it ends in a tie? Hell, I wouldn't even care if they didn't keep score. Anyone who complains about the tie is spoiled...and I am saying this from the prospective of someone who originally was a complainer.

this is the equivalent of working on your day off just to prove how good at your job you are.


if you ask me the tie was the right thing and maybe for the future they should stipulate an inning limit just for the all-star game.

[dgarza]

this is the equivalent of working on your day off just to prove how good at your job you are.
Except those guy get bonuses for making the AS Team, so it's not really a day off.

[sturg1dj]

Except those guy get bonus for making the AS Team, so it's not really a day off.



is the bonus the same as their regular salary? I am actually asking, I have no idea

[west coast orange and black]

in the 12th i thought, "great, here we go again."

fortunately, the game ended with a victor, but the following scenario could have easily occurred:

david wright switches to pitcher and brad lidge fields third, or an on-field double-switch occurs and lidge fields some other position. an error on lidge (‘cause the ball always finds the new guy), a single and two walks later, the american league pennant winner has home field advantage.

that ain’t (w)right.

the only scenario possibly worse would have been for wright to walk his first two batters and get lifted for a different position player who then promptly walks the next two on eight pitches.
whichever way it would have gone would have been bad. hurdle was asked to pamper a few of the guys and complied except for lidge, who got up in the ‘pen more than once. maybe all of those throws had a hand in doing him in.

anywaze, suppose detroit, currently in a holding pattern at .500 ball sneaks into the play-offs, does well in the playoffs and advances into the world series against either the cubs or the cards, who each end up with 100 wins.
the tigers get home field advantage and that’s plain crazy.

the all-star game is an exhibition and ought to be treated as such. back in the day, the biggest stars would go 5+ innings, some playing the entire game. today the managers try to get all players into the game, a strategy that contradicts the “this time it counts” silliness.

for the most part the pitchers were not utilized well.
maybe there oughtta be arule that pitchers who are named to the squads get to go and soak it all in, but those who pitched sunday are formally named as ineligible and replacements are named so that the pitching can be at full strength. i think there were 7 pitchers who pitched sunday, including lincecum, who were on a real short leash.

the outcome of the annual summer classic ought have no bearing on anything except bragging rights for the players.

[dgarza]

is the bonus the same as their regular salary? I am actually asking, I have no idea
Not sure what you're asking.

The bonus are not the same amount as their contract, no.
But they can make extra money vs. not making the ASG.

[sturg1dj]

what I am saying is they are not being contractually compensated for the work they are doing. So they are not being paid for their work, they are being compensated for an achievement.

[west coast orange and black]

dgarza: Except those guys get bonuses for making the AS Team, so it's not really a day off.

most do, but some do not.
it is per the player k.

[sturg1dj]

in the 12th i thought, "great, here we go again."

fortunately, the game ended with a victor, but the following scenario could have easily occurred:

david wright switches to pitcher and brad lidge fields third, or an on-field double-switch occurs and lidge fields some other position. an error on lidge (‘cause the ball always finds the new guy), a single and two walks later, the american league pennant winner has home field advantage.

that ain’t (w)right.

the only scenario possibly worse would have been for wright to walk his first two batters and get lifted for a different position player who then promptly walks the next two on eight pitches.
whichever way it would have gone would have been bad. hurdle was asked to pamper a few of the guys and complied except for lidge, who got up in the ‘pen more than once. maybe all of those throws had a hand in doing him in.

anywaze, suppose detroit, currently in a holding pattern at .500 ball sneaks into the play-offs, does well in the playoffs and advances into the world series against either the cubs or the cards, who each end up with 100 wins.
the tigers get home field advantage and that’s plain crazy.

the all-star game is an exhibition and ought to be treated as such. back in the day, the biggest stars would go 5+ innings, some playing the entire game. today the managers try to get all players into the game, a strategy that contradicts the “this time it counts” silliness.

the outcome of the annual summer classic ought have no bearing on anything except bragging rights for the players.

wow, couldn't have said it better


just imagine if there was a 7 game world series where each team won its home games, and the loser of the series had the better record. That could mean that the world series could be decided by a position player thrown a BP fastball to Justin Morneau...wow

[dgarza]

So they are not being paid for their work, they are being compensated for an achievement.
Such as they are being compensated for their expenses?
No, I think it's a bonus vs. compensation.
Bonuses are income.
Compensation is not, it is a recuperation of expenses.

[sturg1dj]

Such as they are being compensated for their expenses?
No, I think it's a bonus vs. compensation.
Bonuses are income.
Compensation is not, it is a recuperation of expenses.

no, what I mean is that each player has a salary. If split up then you can figure out how much they make per game. Do the players make the same money for the all-star game as they do for a regular season game?

[sturg1dj]

I don't believe you can blame Selig for the tie that happened, but you can blame Selig for never making the tough decision but instead always trying to make every happy.

He needs to decide if he wants the game to count or to be an exhibition, because it should not be both since the World Series is much too important. If he wants it to count then I would suggest removing the rule where every team needs a rep and fan and player voting. Each team needs the best players possible if it is going to be as important as this. They need to take the starting 9 and play them the whole game and pitch a pitcher until he gets tired.

[dgarza]

most do, but some do not.

I guess the players who were never expected to make the ASG (Gregg Olson) would never of had that written into their contract.

[dgarza]

no, what I mean is that each player has a salary. If split up then you can figure out how much they make per game. Do the players make the same money for the all-star game as they do for a regular season game?There's more to it than that. There are incentives for extra games, not just ASGs, but post-season as well.

It's not a simple flat salary. If it were, there would be players who wouldn't try as hard in the "extra games," even the WS games.

[west coast orange and black]

make it a rule that starting pitchers who threw on sunday are ineligible for the all-star game.oh, they get to go and soak it all in, but reserves are formally named to replace them (i think that there were 7, including lincecum).

it's crazy that the managers conferred with the teams of the 7 pitchers as to how to handle them.
either the game is a true exhibiton and managers try to get everyone in, or it "counts," and the managers actually manage.

my vote goes to the all-star game being played for bragging rights, only.
home field advantage oughtta go to the team with the better record, or maybe be rotated as it used to be.

[west coast orange and black]

about two-thirds of last season's all-star players picked up extra cash for making the teams, with $100,000 the top amount.
i do not know about this year's percentage.
(curiously, bonds was not among those with all-star bonuses last season.)

[sturg1dj]

There's more to it than that. There are incentives for extra games, not just ASGs, but post-season as well.

It's not a simple flat salary. If it were, there would be players who wouldn't try as hard in the "extra games," even the WS games.

during the playoffs there is a system in place to play the players

the Players’ pool is created from 60% of the total gate receipts from the first four World Series Games; 60% of the total gate receipts from the first four games of each League Championship Series; and 60% of the total gate receipts from the first three games of each Division Series. The Pool is distributed as follows: World Series Winning Team: 36%; World Series Loser: 24%; League Championship Series Losers (two teams): 12% each; Division Series Losers (four teams): 3% each; Non-wild Card Second Place Teams (four teams): 1% each. The division of a team’s Players’ pool shall be made by a vote of the Players, in a meeting chaired by the Player Representative.

[west coast orange and black]

there's a reason why players have accountants.
in whichever state(s) a players plays, taxes gotta be paid.

[White Knight]

JD Drew and David wright were gonna pitch in the 17th Inning

The game would not have lasted very long

Am I the only one here who would have loved to see that?

[blacksilverfan12]

Am I the only one here who would have loved to see that?

That'd have been funny to see

[White Knight]

That'd have been funny to see

Sure would have. The only thing is, it sets up a potential injury. Remember what happened to Jose Canseco when he pitched a game?

[sturg1dj]

Am I the only one here who would have loved to see that?

i am all for the occasional position player pitching...but not when it is to determine the home team of the world series

[BeatEmBucs]

Why does Selig get blamed for the 2002 All Star game tie? He wasn't mananging either team. Sounds more like Selig hatred. :rolleyes:

He should've had the balls to tell the (mis) managers to fight to the death. The way he flung his arms in an "I don't know what to do" pose during that game isn't exactly my idea of leadership, which should be the #1 trait in a commissioner. As any Bud the Dud apologist will tell you baseball has prospered under his watch, but I think baseball would be much more prosperous with a real commissioner.

[EddieBrinkman'sGlove]

If Spring Training games are allowed to have ties because of their exhibition status, then I don't see why having a tie-game in an exhibition All-Star game is any different. I think Selig overreacted by giving the game extra significance, though I am warming up to the idea. I eagerly stayed up to watch the game to see who would win. If the game was just an exhibition without meaning I wouldn't have. Maybe it was because the game was in Yankee stadium, but the players actually wanted to play in the game and seemed to care who won.

[Knick9]

position players pitch in a regular season game so i fail to see what the difference is (since that could affect a playoff spot or not). It is what it is.

Then I guess it also is what it is why we have an idiot for a commish? :rolleyes:

Position players pitching in a game that will determine HFA for the World Series is just wrong on so many levels. You don't want a possible postseason scenario for your team to be determined on something that a player, who doesn't even pitch normally, does on the mound. How in the world does that make sense?

[rockin500]

Then I guess it also is what it is why we have an idiot for a commish? :rolleyes:

Position players pitching in a game that will determine HFA for the World Series is just wrong on so many levels. You don't want a possible postseason scenario for your team to be determined on something that a player, who doesn't even pitch normally, does on the mound. How in the world does that make sense?
I guess I just dont see how its a travesty. no worse than a position player in a regular season game.

[sturg1dj]

I guess I just dont see how its a travesty. no worse than a position player in a regular season game.

no worse? much worse!


the idea here is to let the best players at each position determine home field advantage. Putting a position player in to pitch is not having the best player at a position determine it.

either go all or nothing, none of this middle of the road crap. Allow the manager of the team to pick the all stars and not have to have a player from each team. Then have the managers manage as if they were managing a real game....so no subs unless the percentages so to and keep a pitcher in until he is no longer effective. If this game determines something as important as home field advantage in the world series then this game needs to be taken more seriously. So that is the question I ask you then: is the all-star game worth that much?