Talked with Don Mattingly today

[StraightGrain11]

Wow! Talk about experiences and opportunities in your life...
I never thought I would ever even get to see the man - let alone talk hitting with him!!! Truly amazing; I am still in shock. :faint:

[Jake Patterson]

Wow! Talk about experiences and opportunities in your life...
I never thought I would ever even get to see the man - let alone talk hitting with him!!! Truly amazing; I am still in shock. :faint:
My best man was Mattingly's roomate while in the Yankees. Great stories.

[Go Cardinals]

why do this to us? tell us some stuff that he said that stood out.

if I'm not mistaken, wasn't he a lau guy?

[StraightGrain11]

why do this to us? tell us some stuff that he said that stood out.

if I'm not mistaken, wasn't he a lau guy?
Solely to toture you, Connor. :laugh I'm kidding.

Some of the things I remember that stood out to me the most were:

That he likes to see the hitter load "soft" - not "quick/jerky" - nice and smooth, very rhythmic. He kept telling the guy he was working with today, "suave, suave" ("soft" in spanish) during his bp round.
He was also telling him that on inside pitches, he shouldn't be opening his hips to "turn on" the ball - but rather keep the hips "closed" and use the hands [to get to the ball]. His basis for this was that in order to open the hips like you think you would have to, to hit an inside pitch, you lose your ability to "go away" and hit the outside pitch [hard]. So he was telling him to (I'm paraphrasing, here) to keep his hips doing what they would be on a pitch away and use his hands to (this is quoted) "drive the ball over the 2Bman's head (LH hitter) - rather than down the line. If you go down the line, you're coming around the ball and not staying thru it." So he was big on "getting the ball out in front" and "going back between the pitcher's legs" (basically, taking everything back up the middle, on every swing - regardless of pitch location; if you went away/pulled, he wanted you staying "over the [middle IF's] heads").
The other thing that he said, that really stood out to me, was that "the bottom hand should be the lead/main hand in the swing. If you use your bottom hand you will be 'short to the ball', if you use your top hand, you end up coming around and lengthening your swing. So bottom hand is the key to the shortest path [to the ball]." Now, he wasn't talking about power, here - just starting the swing, "getting to the ball". And the way he was showing it to me made sense, so...:)

There are just some experiences in life you can't ever even begin to imagine...because you never even think there's a possibility...and then somehow, someway, you're in the right place at the right time and....is this a great game or what? (I'll probably have to quote that to Tim Kurkjian, won't I?) :)
Baseball has given me so many special moments and experiences in my short life, I don't know if I will ever fully be able to "repay" it; but I make sure I give it everything I have, to do so, every chance I get.

[FiveFrameSwing]

The other thing that he said, that really stood out to me, was that "the bottom hand should be the lead/main hand in the swing. If you use your bottom hand you will be 'short to the ball', if you use your top hand, you end up coming around and lengthening your swing. So bottom hand is the key to the shortest path [to the ball]." Now, he wasn't talking about power, here - just starting the swing, "getting to the ball". And the way he was showing it to me made sense, so...:)


In my opinion you got this backwards.

If you place a focus on your top-hand then you will have more of a linear hand path and be short to the ball.

If you place a focus on your bottom-hand then you will have more of a circular hand path (CHP) and be longer to the ball.

A focus with the bottom-hand should drive the ball farther (rotational vs linear).

[StraightGrain11]

In my opinion you got this backwards.

If you place a focus on your top-hand then you will have more of a linear hand path and be short to the ball.

If you place a focus on your bottom-hand then you will have more of a circular hand path (CHP) and be longer to the ball.

A focus with the bottom-hand should drive the ball farther (rotational vs linear).

I stood right there and listened to him say it. He repeated it twice - just to make sure I understood. If "[somone] has it backwards", then it is Don, not I. I am only RELAYING information.

I will do my best to get his "explaination" as close as possible.
He was basically describing/showing me that the bottom hand is the one "closest to the pitch/point of contact" - therefore it has the shortest distance to go to get there. If you focus on the top hand, you have a tendency to work away from/around your body (and around the bottom hand) and, thus, lengthening the swing. That's probably not word-for-word, but that's the best I can remember him showing/describing it. :shrug:

[cosmo34]

On the replay of the Sox/Rays game, Orel just said "your bottom hand is your power hand and your top hand is your accuracy hand" referring to how Pena is gripping with his top hand since his finger is still broken.

Interesting.

And I would agree with what FFS said, though it seems to be no fault of yours SG. You were just relaying what you heard.

[StraightGrain11]

Kinda forgot this...also about loading...

Another thing he was talking about was "really [feeling] yourself load up". He was telling me a few ways to get a hitter to do/feel it are sometimes by telling them to "try and hit the ball as far and as hard as they can. Sometimes, if you tell a hitter to simply 'make contact,' they will just stride, get out on their front foot and then they have nothing left- it's a wasted swing. But if you tell them to see if they can hit the ball over the centerfielder's head, then they'll be [more inclined] to really load-up and try and drive it out there." He also said "another thing you can have them do, is have them get back and load up on one leg, and then go". He was actaully doing the exact same thing Ripken does here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7K6DUcL2L8&mode=related&search=) as he said this; I couldn't believe it when I saw him do it - I almost thought it was Cal for a second :crazy (it was THAT close/similar/exact)!

[DerekD]

Did you ask if he wished he would've stayed another year?

[RuthMayBond]

On the replay of the Sox/Rays game, Orel just said "your bottom hand is your power hand and your top hand is your accuracy hand" referring to how Pena is gripping with his top hand since his finger is still broken.
That makes sense. I bat righty even though I throw lefty, a RARE combination. Since I throw lefty my left hand is my power (such as it is) hand, and it is my bottom hand since I bat righty.
Did you ask him if he can get a lifetime contract with the Yanks so he can continue being their curse?

[FiveFrameSwing]

I stood right there and listened to him say it. He repeated it twice - just to make sure I understood. If "[somone] has it backwards", then it is Don, not I. I am only RELAYING information.

I will do my best to get his "explaination" as close as possible.
He was basically describing/showing me that the bottom hand is the one "closest to the pitch/point of contact" - therefore it has the shortest distance to go to get there. If you focus on the top hand, you have a tendency to work away from/around your body (and around the bottom hand) and, thus, lengthening the swing. That's probably not word-for-word, but that's the best I can remember him showing/describing it. :shrug:

This information contradicts that of Dmac's information.

IMO, the hands are close to the same distance at launch. If anything, the bat is angled back towards the field and it is the top-hand that is closer ... but in any respect they are pretty close to the same at the point when an initial emphasis is made.

Despite the argument of which is closest, what is important is the path that each hand would follow if it were dominant. If I understand Dmac's information correctly, then the top-hand would likely be more linear or direct to the ball, whereas the bottom-hand would follow more of a circular hand path.

[Stealth]

If you read Mattingly's book he is a bottom hand guy..........

[thehogans]

Solely to toture you, Connor. :laugh I'm kidding.

Some of the things I remember that stood out to me the most were:

That he likes to see the hitter load "soft" - not "quick/jerky" - nice and smooth, very rhythmic. He kept telling the guy he was working with today, "suave, suave" ("soft" in spanish) during his bp round.
He was also telling him that on inside pitches, he shouldn't be opening his hips to "turn on" the ball - but rather keep the hips "closed" and use the hands [to get to the ball]. His basis for this was that in order to open the hips like you think you would have to, to hit an inside pitch, you lose your ability to "go away" and hit the outside pitch [hard]. So he was telling him to (I'm paraphrasing, here) to keep his hips doing what they would be on a pitch away and use his hands to (this is quoted) "drive the ball over the 2Bman's head (LH hitter) - rather than down the line. If you go down the line, you're coming around the ball and not staying thru it." So he was big on "getting the ball out in front" and "going back between the pitcher's legs" (basically, taking everything back up the middle, on every swing - regardless of pitch location; if you went away/pulled, he wanted you staying "over the [middle IF's] heads").
The other thing that he said, that really stood out to me, was that "the bottom hand should be the lead/main hand in the swing. If you use your bottom hand you will be 'short to the ball', if you use your top hand, you end up coming around and lengthening your swing. So bottom hand is the key to the shortest path [to the ball]." Now, he wasn't talking about power, here - just starting the swing, "getting to the ball". And the way he was showing it to me made sense, so...:)

There are just some experiences in life you can't ever even begin to imagine...because you never even think there's a possibility...and then somehow, someway, you're in the right place at the right time and....is this a great game or what? (I'll probably have to quote that to Tim Kurkjian, won't I?) :)
Baseball has given me so many special moments and experiences in my short life, I don't know if I will ever fully be able to "repay" it; but I make sure I give it everything I have, to do so, every chance I get.

Wow...congrats! What a great experience. And reading what you said Mattingly was talking about was almost word for word what Rick Down had said to me when I was lucky enough to get a one-on-one hitting lesson from him. That was one of my greatest experiences...like you (or Tim :shhh:) said...is this a great game or what!

[Shake Zula]

I'm really confused on bottom hand VS top hand. I was mostly using my top hand before learning Lau's Law... (and the method did took me to the next level), but Yeager's DVD had me going to top hand again. I guess it's the matter of comfort. I saw Brett Gardner's swing yesterday and his looked like downright 100% bottom hand swing

[mbs]

um--there is a reason your dominant hand is on top.....because it is DOMINANT!!!!!!!!!

[jbooth]

Wow...congrats! What a great experience. And reading what you said Mattingly was talking about was almost word for word what Rick Down had said to me when I was lucky enough to get a one-on-one hitting lesson from him. That was one of my greatest experiences...like you (or Tim :shhh:) said...is this a great game or what!

You use BOTH hands, it's just that you can only consciously focus on, or feel, one at a time when you swing.

IMO, the bottom hand/arm is active at the launch of the swing, both hands/arms accelerate the bat after launch and prior to contact, and the top hand snaps the bathead into the ball.

This fits with what Ted Williams describes. The shoulders bring the arms around, that means that the front arm is most active at the start as the front shoulder muscle firms up and connects the shoulder to the bat. Then, after you get to the "bat lag" position, or position of hands leading the barrel, as Ted described it, the rear arm begins to extend and then the top hand snaps the bathead into the ball.

If you do nothing with the top hand, you won't get that late snap into the ball, but if you do nothing with the bottom hand you won't fully utilize the rotation of the torso.

You have to be careful thinking too much about the top hand. It is important for power, but you can easily mess up your swing. If you pull too early with it, you get bat drag, and if you push with it, you'll just shove the bat at the ball instead of whipping it, and if you push with it, you may cast the bathead out early and/or get your hands too far away from your body.

Many pros have been asked which hand they use, or which is important, and half say the bottom, and half say the top.

IMO, they use both in perfect synch of bottom, both, top and it happens so fast that you can't teach it.

It might be described as; rotate, pull and snap. Or, Hips, Handle, bat Head.

The Hips get the torso going, the front arm/bottom hand get the Handle going, and the top hand/rear arm snap the Head into the ball. And all that happens in about 16 hundreths of a second.

[FiveFrameSwing]

You use BOTH hands, it's just that you can only consciously focus on, or feel, one at a time when you swing.

IMO, the bottom hand/arm is active at the launch of the swing, both hands/arms accelerate the bat after launch and prior to contact, and the top hand snaps the bathead into the ball.

This fits with what Ted Williams describes. The shoulders bring the arms around, that means that the front arm is most active at the start as the front shoulder muscle firms up and connects the shoulder to the bat. Then, after you get to the "bat lag" position, or position of hands leading the barrel, as Ted described it, the rear arm begins to extend and then the top hand snaps the bathead into the ball.

If you do nothing with the top hand, you won't get that late snap into the ball, but if you do nothing with the bottom hand you won't fully utilize the rotation of the torso.

You have to be careful thinking too much about the top hand. It is important for power, but you can easily mess up your swing. If you pull too early with it, you get bat drag, and if you push with it, you'll just shove the bat at the ball instead of whipping it, and if you push with it, you may cast the bathead out early and/or get your hands too far away from your body.

Many pros have been asked which hand they use, or which is important, and half say the bottom, and half say the top.

IMO, they use both in perfect synch of bottom, both, top and it happens so fast that you can't teach it.

It might be described as; rotate, pull and snap. Or, Hips, Handle, bat Head.

The Hips get the torso going, the front arm/bottom hand get the Handle going, and the top hand/rear arm snap the Head into the ball. And all that happens in about 16 hundreths of a second.

Nice post Jim.

My current understanding is pretty much as you have described.

[mbs]

hogans---and what did Down want you to do with your stride???????????

[soceric]

I stood right there and listened to him say it. He repeated it twice - just to make sure I understood. If "[somone] has it backwards", then it is Don, not I. I am only RELAYING information.

I will do my best to get his "explaination" as close as possible.
He was basically describing/showing me that the bottom hand is the one "closest to the pitch/point of contact" - therefore it has the shortest distance to go to get there. If you focus on the top hand, you have a tendency to work away from/around your body (and around the bottom hand) and, thus, lengthening the swing. That's probably not word-for-word, but that's the best I can remember him showing/describing it. :shrug:

Makes perfect sense to me. It's a lot easier to be short/compact with a strong bottom hand and especially a coordinated dominant bottom hand.

[Jay924]

Kinda forgot this...also about loading...

Another thing he was talking about was "really [feeling] yourself load up". He was telling me a few ways to get a hitter to do/feel it are sometimes by telling them to "try and hit the ball as far and as hard as they can. Sometimes, if you tell a hitter to simply 'make contact,' they will just stride, get out on their front foot and then they have nothing left- it's a wasted swing. But if you tell them to see if they can hit the ball over the centerfielder's head, then they'll be [more inclined] to really load-up and try and drive it out there." He also said "another thing you can have them do, is have them get back and load up on one leg, and then go". He was actaully doing the exact same thing Ripken does here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7K6DUcL2L8&mode=related&search=) as he said this; I couldn't believe it when I saw him do it - I almost thought it was Cal for a second :crazy (it was THAT close/similar/exact)!

I was under the impression that the tee is suppose to be placed where the front foot lands. In the clip Cal's foot lands about a foot or so short of the tee. I was wondering if it is due to the specific drill or just personal preference?

[ShawnB]

I'm not even going to get into what Mattingly said.

I collect hitting books, And he wins my award for the worst book ever written. Besides the lack of any information, it was the worst book I ever looked at.

Remember Williams laughed at him while he tried to describe hitting. And after reading the advice in this thread I could see why.

[Jake Patterson]

I'm not even going to get into what Mattingly said.

I collect hitting books, And he wins my award for the worst book ever written. Besides the lack of any information, it was the worst book I ever looked at.

Remember Williams laughed at him while he tried to describe hitting. And after reading the advice in this thread I could see why.
"The measure of a good coach (in this case I'll also use instructor) is not how well he played the game, it's how well he can teach it." I saw Mattingly at the World Baseball Convention. I would not recommend.

[The Glovedoctor]

As far as I am concerned, if anyone wants to learn about hitting, pick up a copy of Ted Williams book "The Science of Hitting." I found a lot to learn about the mental side of hitting in this masterpiece.

There are numbers of different "styles" of hitting. Everyone has different strengths and weaknesses in their swing. The most important thing is working the pitcher into giving you a pitch to hit, and knowing what to do with it.

Anyone agree with that?

[CoachB25]

Keep the hips closed? This is Pujos' Homerun last night!

http://images.stltoday.com/stltoday/resources/pujols300swing625july5.jpg

I'm taking a stab at this but I'm thinking his hips aren't closed. :hide:

Straightgain, no shot at you and I understand you are relating what you saw and heard. I might also interject that in a live bp session, the instructor and the hitter might be working on concepts that aren't clear to any observers per flaws etc. already identified in that hitter.

[cosmo34]

I have a feeling "keep the hips closed" is just a cue for his hitters. He doesn't mean literally keep the hips closed, probably just a reminder not to open up, turn and burn, and hook that ball foul.

[StraightGrain11]

I have a feeling "keep the hips closed" is just a cue for his hitters. He doesn't mean literally keep the hips closed, probably just a reminder not to open up, turn and burn, and hook that ball foul.

Yes. It's not a matter of IF they open, it's a matter of WHEN they open. If you think "keep your hips closed", they will do so until the last possible moment - which is what you want. If you start thinking "open the hips to hit an inside pitch", they will do so immeadiately and breakdown good, strong mechanics. I have seen it taught that way before (seeing Don show it that way), and I've taught it myself that way (for some time) to my students/players. All with good results.

[MannyRamirez2006]

looking at mlb players before they swing most of them are holding the bat very lightly of course. However you do see some players (Manny, Abreu, Youk to name a few) hold the bat very lightly with the top hand and the bottom hand is held firmer. I messed around with this and it seems as if if helps me. Although I do feel like I am top hand dominant and don't use my bottom hand like I should so that could be a reason why.

It doesn't hurt to actually try this in bp and see what you get for results. Just barely hold on to the bat with your top hand but hold a firmer grip with your bottom hand. Still a relaxed grip but firmer then your top hand.

I am still very lost as to what really is the truth about all this but I would have to say that the bottom hand is more of the "power" hand if you will. Just hit a ball off a tee with your top hand only 10 times and then bottom hand only and try to hit it with the goal being hit it as far as possible and see what happens. I guess it could be an interesting experiment. Can't hurt to try.

[sd72667]

"The measure of a good coach (in this case I'll also use instructor) is not how well he played the game, it's how well he can teach it." I saw Mattingly at the World Baseball Convention. I would not recommend.

I guess the Yankees and now the Dodgers must think Don is a pretty solid batting instructor. Being a former player, Don relates well with the players.
I always believed that Don was a student of the game when he played. I am from his hometown, as I live a couple of miles from him. Some of my friends are also friends with him. I also have heard a few good stories. I do not know him personally. When I was young I studied his swing and copied his swing over and over. I am now trying to teach my son Don's basic swing pattern.

[Jake Patterson]

I guess the Yankees and now the Dodgers must think Don is a pretty solid batting instructor. Being a former player, Don relates well with the players.
I always believed that Don was a student of the game when he played. I am from his hometown, as I live a couple of miles from him. Some of my friends are also friends with him. I also have heard a few good stories. I do not know him personally. When I was young I studied his swing and copied his swing over and over. I am now trying to teach my son Don's basic swing pattern.

I should edit the above to add that there are those who do very well at the professional level, but cannot relate well with kids and vise-versa. Based on what I saw I would not recommend Don for kids.

[sd72667]

I should edit the above to add that there are those who do very well at the professional level, but cannot relate well with kids and vise-versa. Based on what I saw I would not recommend Don for kids.

I agree 100% that it is very difficult to teach baseball to younger kids. I literally pull my hair out trying to teach hitting, pitching to my son, who is 10 yrs old. This year his hitting has greatly improved. It makes me feel good that he finally is understanding the concepts I "throw" :eek: at him. Some instructors are just too complicated for kids. I have seen a few like that around here.