How to produce proper arc?

[BTHOtu]

I've been hearing alot about arc lately, and was just wondering how to produce it properly. Is it tilt, a high lead elbow or what? It's really starting to confuse me.

[StraightGrain11]

I've been hearing alot about arc lately, and was just wondering how to produce it properly. Is it tilt, a high lead elbow or what? It's really starting to confuse me.

Hmmm...when people refer to "arc", they are generally referring to the path of the hands, not the bat, so much....which are you referring to?
http://www.chrisoleary.com/projects/Baseball/Hitting/Images/Example_CircularHandPath_PeteRose_001.JPG

[BTHOtu]

The path of the bat as it goes behind the head.

[tom.guerry]

arc is best thought of in my opinion as what Williams describes as matching the plane of the swing to the pitch and what mankin/batspeed.com describes as early batspeed.

this requires a stretch and fire type swing where you keep the hands back and shoulders closed as the hips open.

this requires a lot of "upper body resistance".

this in turn requires handle torque and shoulder tilt, not shoulder turn and handle pull.

[Ursa Major]

Sorry, Tom, you're taking us off into metaphysics when the question was very simple. I think for every essential purpose, the term "arc" refers to the path of the hands -- they form an arc to the hitting zone, rather than making a straight ("linear") path to the ball. (Since you're the primary proponent of Mankin here, I'm surprised that you veer off that point, as his DVD is entitle The Final Arc, and he emphasizes more than any other guru the need for the "circular hand path."

The idea is that, under the law of conservation of angular momentum, this circular path (or arc) will produce the greatest amount of barrelhead speed into the ball, as well as producing a number of other neat benefits (like expanding a batter's "happy zone").

How do you best achieve it? Making the hands independently move in an arc while trying to turn a 30 oz. bat is pretty near impossible. The idea is to keep the hands affixed to a spot near the back shoulder and -- with the initial impeteus provided by the hips and shoulders -- the body's rotation causes the "connected" hands to move in a rotational arc. Then the hands and wrists snap just before contact to provide the asome final, additional impetus. So, key is the connection and the body rotation, with the posture part of PCR providing primarily the aiming mechanism (and some additional muscle tension) to make sure the plane of the bat arc crosses the flight path of the incoming pitch.

[StraightGrain11]

The path of the bat as it goes behind the head.

Hmmm...that sounds more like "loading/separation" than it does "arc"...:think:
Do you remember what you were reading? I would be happy to read over it and see if I can "sort" things out a little better for you. :)

[Mark H]

Do you remember what you were reading? I would be happy to read over it and see if I can "sort" things out a little better for you. :)

I thought Ursa's answer was good but I thought this offer was very very good and appropriate.

[Stealth]

So, key is the connection and the body rotation, with the posture part of PCR providing primarily the aiming mechanism (and some additional muscle tension) to make sure the plane of the bat arc crosses the flight path of the incoming pitch.

Ursa - I am not sure I understand this (part in bold) - can you explain how posture acts as an aiming mechanism as it's primary role in the swing?

[LAball]

I noticed how important arc on the bat head was when I was hitting fly balls and grounders for the fielders. I throw the ball up with my bottom hand and swing 1 handed with my top hand. At first I used a linear swing because it was easier to hit the ball, but I couldnt hit long fly balls. Then I changed to a more circular swing and was easier to get the proper trajectory and power on the ball. One main point I wana say is rotation is not only about rotating the body but also make sure the bat head has a rotating motion. Having bat Drag ensures this circular arc imo, thus people say bat drag has a powerful albeit slow swing.

I also noticed my son had a linear bat swing at the end of the season :mad:. I didnt realy emphasis the bat head in practice, but the body mechanics (go figure) What I did notice about the linear swing is that its easier to make contact cuz it almost feels like a bunt. I think soft toss on an open field will correct this problem so he can see what swing will give him power and fly/linedrives. A note to add, maybe my son never swings with an arc because I ask him to be a contact hitter since he was the youngest in his age division. thanks for listening to be rant about how I screwed my sons swing.

[StraightGrain11]

I thought Ursa's answer was good but I thought this offer was very very good and appropriate.

It's more out of my own curiousity that I was wondering what he was reading. :think: And, if I/we had a chance to read it, we would be able to address his thoughts more "specifically", than we are right now "guessing" what he is referring to (but I kind of suspect you understand that's where I was going with that, Mark; just clarifying for others :)).

I appologize, Ursa, if I made it sound like your answer was "unsatisfactory" - I agree, it is a good and very thorough response. :)

Ursa - I am not sure I understand this (part in bold) - can you explain how posture acts as an aiming mechanism as it's primary role in the swing?

You "adjust" your body's "posture" to the height of the pitch. On pitches "up in the zone", you will be more "upright"; on pitches "down in the zone", you will be more "tilted" over the plate. So, basically, I believe, he referring to "tilt" - yes, Ursa?

I guess the way I look at it is this, when attempting to hit a pitch, you're body takes in two coordinates to "map" the possible final loaction of the ball (point of contact):
1) Position relative to the HEIGHT of the body (is the pitch HIGH or LOW)
2) Position relative to the WIDTH of the plate (is the pitch INSIDE or OUTSIDE)
"Posture adjustments" - or "tilt" (of the BODY) - address coordinate 1. The HANDS address coordinate 2. So the body and hands are working together on every swing to get the "fat part of the bat" on the ball, every time - essentially, where to "aim" the bat/swing.

[FiveFrameSwing]

I've been hearing alot about arc lately, and was just wondering how to produce it properly. Is it tilt, a high lead elbow or what? It's really starting to confuse me.

If I understand the thread titled "Dmac - Grounders/Flyballs tweaking" correctly, then a key portion of producing CHP has to do with bottom-hand dominance.

[Stealth]

It's more out of my own curiousity that I was wondering what he was reading. :think: And, if I/we had a chance to read it, we would be able to address his thoughts more "specifically", than we are right now "guessing" what he is referring to (but I kind of suspect you understand that's where I was going with that, Mark; just clarifying for others :)).

I appologize, Ursa, if I made it sound like your answer was "unsatisfactory" - I agree, it is a good and very thorough response. :)



You "adjust" your body's "posture" to the height of the pitch. On pitches "up in the zone", you will be more "upright"; on pitches "down in the zone", you will be more "tilted" over the plate. So, basically, I believe, he referring to "tilt" - yes, Ursa?

I guess the way I look at it is this, when attempting to hit a pitch, you're body takes in two coordinates to "map" the possible final loaction of the ball (point of contact):
1) Position relative to the HEIGHT of the body (is the pitch HIGH or LOW)
2) Position relative to the WIDTH of the plate (is the pitch INSIDE or OUTSIDE)
"Posture adjustments" - or "tilt" (of the BODY) - address coordinate 1. The HANDS address coordinate 2. So the body and hands are working together on every swing to get the "fat part of the bat" on the ball, every time - essentially, where to "aim" the bat/swing.


StraightGrain: I was more interested in how posture was an "aiming" mechanism. In the time frame you have to hit a baseball is it possible to aim by adjusting your posture and then swinging? I don't believe so - I was hoping Ursa would add/clarify his statement.

[wogdoggy]

StraightGrain: I was more interested in how posture was an "aiming" mechanism. In the time frame you have to hit a baseball is it possible to aim by adjusting your posture and then swinging? I don't believe so - I was hoping Ursa would add/clarify his statement.



if you have to tell yourself tilt to hit you are dead immediately..think of using your hands and the posture takes care of itself..dont ever take the thought of your hands out of the equation..thinking posture tilt etc will freeze you up on anything except right down broadway..think hands and the posture sets itself..my opinion

[Ursa Major]

Stealth said: StraightGrain: I was more interested in how posture was an "aiming" mechanism. In the time frame you have to hit a baseball is it possible to aim by adjusting your posture and then swinging? I don't believe so - I was hoping Ursa would add/clarify his statement.Straight took my casual statement and ran with it better than I could have. Posture helps you "aim" by adjusting for the height of the pitch. As the pitch comes toward you and even as the shoulders rotate, you adjust their pitch so that the back shoulder is aiming at and rotating into where you think the ball will arrive at the plate. See how ARod adjusted during his swing to the ever-lowering height of this pitch:

http://s95294420.onlinehome.us/userfiles/arod_front_4SLO.gif

As Woggy notes ... uh, sorta correctly, IMHO :) ... you also can't completely take the hands out of the equation, especially as you move up the competitive ladder and face breaking pitches. He likes the cue of aiming with the hands; I get better results by using the aiming with the back shoulder cue, just because I feel that any cue that uses the term "hands" risks encouraging disconnection.

And, Straight, no apology necessary. I understood you were addressing BTHOtu's post.

[Stealth]

Ursa - thanks for clarifying. Do you have your hitters actually think about aiming with their rear shoulder to hit the ball in a game situation?