Carlos Quentin

[cosmo34]

Anybody see the piece on him on Baseball Tonight?

Eduardo was talking about how Greg Walker (White Sox hitting coach) has changed up how he rotates with his lower half, and uses more of a left handed type "pivot" of the backfoot and had some clips of it.

Anyone catch it, or have a Tivo rolling? I could only hear some of it and didn't catch it all.

[hiddengem]

Anybody see the piece on him on Baseball Tonight?

Eduardo was talking about how Greg Walker (White Sox hitting coach) has changed up how he rotates with his lower half, and uses more of a left handed type "pivot" of the backfoot and had some clips of it.

Anyone catch it, or have a Tivo rolling? I could only hear some of it and didn't catch it all.

I caught it all..keeps his direction good and prevents him from spinning. Thome has always hit like this..among many others.

[cosmo34]

Awesome, thanks.

I had noticed Thome (among others) doing it before, hence where my "left handed pivot" came from. Seems like it could be something that the untrained eye might mistake it for the dreaded "squishing of the bug".

Possible to go a little more in depth?

[Go Cardinals]

what is this left handed pivot?

[cosmo34]

Watch the back foot.
http://hittingillustrated.com/library/AGonzalez7.gif
http://hittingillustrated.com/library/Bonds15.gif
http://hittingillustrated.com/library/Thome2.gif
Hard to see on the Thome one with the pitcher in the way, but Quentin is basically the same as him.
http://hittingillustrated.com/library/Pujols2.gif

Yes, I know, it's a very crude description.

[cubsphill]

an explaination with clips is always good :)

[cosmo34]

More the merrier.

[Baseball gLove]

Mike Moustakas & Matt Dominguez do this. My son does too.

[Chris O'Leary]

Watch the back foot.
http://hittingillustrated.com/library/Bonds15.gif


For the record, I would never use Bonds' lower body as an example of what to do.

The steroids enable him to be less efficient.

[beemax]

For the record, I would never use Bonds' lower body as an example of what to do.

The steroids enable him to be less efficient.

Can you explain why you would never use his lower body as an example of what to do?

Who would you say would be better examples and why?

IMO, the steroids enabled him to hit more Home Runs than anyone else has ever hit. He played in an era where, depending on who your source is, the majority of guys were using.

I believe he was about as efficient as it got when it came to hitting with power.

[Shake Zula]

That clip looks like his pre-steroid era though

Without his lower body usage, he woudln't be playing baseball long enough for him to get steroids in late 1990's (or early 2000's)

[kylebee]

For the record, I would never use Bonds' lower body as an example of what to do.

The steroids enable him to be less efficient.

He hit like this for years.

[cosmo34]

For the record, I would never use Bonds' lower body as an example of what to do.

The steroids enable him to be less efficient.


I absolutely knew you would say this. This is absolutely false, as I have stated several times before as have others. Fact is, many many lefties follow a similar pattern. Another fact, Bonds has been doing that his entire career, all the way back to his ASU days.

Look at the hat of that Marlins pitcher. That was 95-96. Well before his "alleged" use.

Are Adrian and Thome on steroids too? Didn't think so. Funny how you singled him out while ignoring the same thing in the Gonzo and Thome clips.

If anyone is watching the game right now, you could clearly see what Quentin does during the side view of his home run.

[Go Cardinals]

thome just went yard with it

[hiddengem]

For the record, I would never use Bonds' lower body as an example of what to do.


Probably the best hitter to ever walk the planet, and he was damn good before steroids..yet he's not an example of what to do? You tend to scare me Chris.

[jbooth]

Probably the best hitter to ever walk the planet, and he was damn good before steroids..yet he's not an example of what to do? You tend to scare me Chris.

Nah, he's not the BEST ever, he's the 4th best IMO, behind Ruth, Williams and Hornsby. ;):laugh:D

[beemax]

Chris,

I would really appreciate it if you would address the questions I asked you on post #10 here. Thanks in advance.

[Chris O'Leary]

Can you explain why you would never use his lower body as an example of what to do?

Because he doesn't get up on his back toe like most ML hitters do. Rather, what he does is more like squishing the bug, and I don't think we want to encourage squishing the bug.


Who would you say would be better examples and why?

Anyone who gets up on the point of their back toe.

Pujols, A-Rod, Manny, Soriano...

[Chris O'Leary]

Probably the best hitter to ever walk the planet, and he was damn good before steroids..yet he's not an example of what to do? You tend to scare me Chris.

For multiple reasons, and general principles, I would never encourage anyone to copy Barry Bonds.

There are much better people to copy.

[Stealth]

For multiple reasons, and general principles, I would never encourage anyone to copy Barry Bonds.

Simply an unbelievable statement!

[beemax]

Because he doesn't get up on his back toe like most ML hitters do. Rather, what he does is more like squishing the bug, and I don't think we want to encourage squishing the bug.

IMO what happens with the back foot is more cosmetic than anything else. Does Bonds not have proper weight shift because he doesn't always get up on his toe? What about Thome? Adrian Gonzalez? Josh Hamilton? Andruw Jones? David Wright? Jason Bay? Jay Bruce? Jimmy Rollins? Justin Morneau?
Troy Glaus?

All of these guys have swings where they do not always get up on their back toe, yet they have had or are having great success.

Getting up on the back toe is not an absolute by any means. I used to think it was as well, but further research showed me it wasn't. Again, like I said, sometimes it is purely cosmetic and nothing else. The rotation that these guys have is key, and IMO that is the absolute with all high level hitters. Getting up on the back toe is not.

[jbooth]

For multiple reasons, and general principles, I would never encourage anyone to copy Barry Bonds.

There are much better people to copy.

He has a fundamentally perfect swing, and nearly identical in fundamentals to Ruth, Ted Williams, Frank Robinson, all with lifetime averages over .300 and over 500 HR's, but they're not good to copy?:confused::eek:

[cosmo34]

Because he doesn't get up on his back toe like most ML hitters do. Rather, what he does is more like squishing the bug, and I don't think we want to encourage squishing the bug.




Anyone who gets up on the point of their back toe.

Pujols, A-Rod, Manny, Soriano...

Hmmmmm, all RH hitters. Righties and lefties do not always do the same when it comes to this.

MANY lefties do not do this. Bonds is not the only one. You are still ignoring the FACT that Thome and Gonzo do this, among many others. What about the amazing numbers that Bonds put up before his "alleged" use? Did he just get lazy? No, he was always doing the same thing.

PS
http://www.donstephens.net/bonds-apr1501.jpg
http://www.backbackback.com/web%20images/tw2lr.gif

[Chris O'Leary]

He has a fundamentally perfect swing, and nearly identical in fundamentals to Ruth, Ted Williams, Frank Robinson, all with lifetime averages over .300 and over 500 HR's, but they're not good to copy?:confused::eek:

IMO, when it comes to role models what matters isn't just how good of a PLAYER someone was but also how good of a PERSON they were.

Why not teach people to copy Stan Musial?

[Chris O'Leary]

Simply an unbelievable statement!

Please.

There are much better PEOPLE to copy.

What about Ken Griffey Jr.?

[cosmo34]

IMO, when it comes to role models what matters isn't just how good of a PLAYER someone was but also how good of a PERSON they were.

Why not teach people to copy Stan Musial?

Then you must immediately get rid of everything you have ever done with Pete Rose, and never use him again. Otherwise you're being a hypocrit.

This is about swing mechanics. I don't give a rats behind what Bonds supposedly did. Fact is, dude has an immaculate swing, and there is no denying that. You just don't like the guy, so his swing is something that shouldn't be looked at.

There isn't alot of clips out there of Musial. For the last 20 years or so, you could turn on Sportscenter on any given night, and probably see some Bonds highlights.

That you discount his mechanics because of your perception of him as a person is ludicrous. Absolutely ludicrous.

[cosmo34]

And I'm still waiting for your explanation as to why you are ignoring the Thome and Gonzo clips.

Are they not good enough people too? No that can't be it, everybody knows Thome is an outstanding person and teammate.

[hiddengem]

Because he doesn't get up on his back toe like most ML hitters do. Rather, what he does is more like squishing the bug, and I don't think we want to encourage squishing the bug.

Are you kidding me Chris? Are you are telling us that becuase he doesn't get on his toe, he's not one to learn from? Nevermind his amazing balance, lower half shift, ability to stay on the ball to all fields, awesome throw with his top hand/arm. ect ect.

I suppose since Chipper tends to lay that foot back, he's not one to learn from either? We all know he's a terrible hitter.

Chris, its about the lower half shift, and not spinning off the ball. It has nothing to do with squishing the bug. Thats why they do this. Watch Luke Scott, Eric Chavez and many others. I know alot of guys that get up on their toe that are terrible spinners and constantly pull off the ball.

THIS is squishing the bug, Bonds isn't close to this.
http://www.graylon.hittingillustrated.com/trent8.gif

[cosmo34]

http://hittingillustrated.com/library/Chipper5.gif

Terrible indeed.

He must be on steroids too. I don't know how else he can get away with being this badly inefficient.

[Chris O'Leary]

Then you must immediately get rid of everything you have ever done with Pete Rose, and never use him again. Otherwise you're being a hypocrit.

Neither Pete Rose nor Ted Williams were great people, but it was never suggested that they took steroids and HGH to enhance their performance.


This is about swing mechanics. I don't give a rats behind what Bonds supposedly did. Fact is, dude has an immaculate swing, and there is no denying that. You just don't like the guy, so his swing is something that shouldn't be looked at.

I don't think cheaters should be held up as examples when there are non-cheaters who are just as worthy (if not more).

You'll notice that I have never help up McGwire as an example. I used to admire him. Now, not so much.


That you discount his mechanics because of your perception of him as a person is ludicrous. Absolutely ludicrous.

Your attitude sums up the problem with much of sports today.

That results are all that matters.

[Chris O'Leary]

THIS is squishing the bug, Bonds isn't close to this.
http://www.graylon.hittingillustrated.com/trent8.gif

Actually, that's not squishing the bug.

I have seen much worse.

[Chris O'Leary]

http://hittingillustrated.com/library/Chipper5.gif

Terrible indeed.

Notice how Chipper's back foot gets unweighted, goes airborne for a couple of frames, and slides sideways. That's different than what Bonds does.

I'm fine holding Chipper up as an example for kids. From what I've heard, he's a solid person.

[cosmo34]

Neither Pete Rose nor Ted Williams were great people, but it was never suggested that they took steroids and HGH to enhance their performance.




I don't think cheaters should be held up as examples when there are non-cheaters who are just as worthy (if not more).

You'll notice that I have never help up McGwire as an example. I used to admire him. Now, not so much.




Your attitude sums up the problem with much of sports today.

That results are all that matters.

So you can draw the line between them because of what YOUR values are. You can't have it both ways. Pick one. Either use Bonds, Mac, and Rose; or none at all.

My attitude? Umm we are discussing hitting mechanics. Not values. And what's your point?

You are excellent at dodging questions, Chris.

WHAT ABOUT THOME AND GONZALEZ?!?!?!?!?!?

[cosmo34]

Notice how Chipper's back foot gets unweighted, goes airborne for a couple of frames, and slides sideways. That's different than what Bonds does.

I'm fine holding Chipper up as an example for kids. From what I've heard, he's a solid person.


But its not the absoulte unquestioned ideal "coming up on the toe" so it cant be good.

You need to stop acting like we are "some of your kids". People on this board are not 10. You don't need to recommend hitters based more on your perception of what kind of person they are so the kids look up to them as role models and hitters as well.

We are talking about mechanics, and nothing else. I don't care what he supposedly did. I'm not even a Bonds fan. But you cannot discount his mechanics. He is an amazing hitter and there is a ton to learn from him.

[Chris O'Leary]

So you can draw the line between them because of what YOUR values are. You can't have it both ways. Pick one. Either use Bonds, Mac, and Rose; or none at all.

For all of his faults, which are numerous, Pete Rose was never accused or even suspected of using steroids.


My attitude? Umm we are discussing hitting mechanics. Not values. And what's your point?

My point is that as coaches and teachers, values are something we should discuss with our kids.

It's not just about the results, it about the process.


You are excellent at dodging questions, Chris.

WHAT ABOUT THOME AND GONZALEZ?!?!?!?!?!?

I don't know the swings of Thome or Gonzalez very well, so I can't say much about them. I can't say whether this is their typical swing or an outlier.

I will say that's not a great clip of Thome because you can't see much of his back leg.

I like to spend most of my time on guys who I have multiple clips of so I know what is a pattern and what isn't.

[hiddengem]

Notice how Chipper's back foot gets unweighted, goes airborne for a couple of frames, and slides sideways. That's different than what Bonds does.

Ok, so are you backtreading on your toe statement?

I'm fine holding Chipper up as an example for kids. From what I've heard, he's a solid person.

I'm perfectly fine with you not wanting to use Bonds as an example of a way to hit because he has a bad track record. Well not exactly, since I think he's one of the best ever, if not THE best.

HOWEVER,
What I think you need to do on here and your website is post a disclaimer saying that your teachings on the mechanics of hitting are not just that, but that your personal feelings on the hitters themselves will cause you to either like their mechanics or not. Thats what it sounds like to me.


Here is some Thome
http://www.hittingillustrated.com/images/Thome308.gif
http://www.hittingillustrated.com/images/Thome303.gif

[cosmo34]

For all of his faults, which are numerous, Pete Rose was never accused or even suspected of using steroids.




My point is that as coaches and teachers, values are something we should discuss with our kids.

It's not just about the results, it about the process.




I don't know the swings of Thome or Gonzalez very well, so I can't say much about them. I can't say whether this is their typical swing or an outlier.

I will say that's not a great clip of Thome because you can't see much of his back leg.

I like to spend most of my time on guys who I have multiple clips of so I know what is a pattern and what isn't.

So gambling=fine, steroids=not; right? Just seeing how much your personal opinion affects your words/teachings.

Well, we're not talking to kids right now, are we.

Every clip I find of Thome and Gonzo show the same thing. It's all there. Like Connor said, Thome did it clear as night on his home run yesterday.

What I think you need to do on here and your website is post a disclaimer saying that your teachings on the mechanics of hitting are not just that, but that your personal feelings on the hitters themselves will cause you to either like their mechanics or not. Thats what it sounds like to me.

Truth be spoken. It's all about perception, not just about their mechanics.

[Chris O'Leary]

Ok, so are you backtreading on your toe statement?

No.

Chipper is still a bit of an outlier.

Just not as much of an outlier as Bonds.

[hiddengem]

For all of his faults, which are numerous, Pete Rose was never accused or even suspected of using steroids.



Isn't that funny..Rose is banned from the game and Bonds isn't.

[Chris O'Leary]

So gambling=fine, steroids=not; right? Just seeing how much your personal opinion affects your words/teachings.

Pete Rose's gambling problems did not affect his swing or the results or his swing.

[Chris O'Leary]

Isn't that funny..Rose is banned from the game and Bonds isn't.

You could argue that it's not fair, but it does make sense.

Rose broke a written rule of baseball while Bonds didn't.

[cosmo34]

Niether did Bonds. His swing has been the exact same SINCE HE WAS AT ASU.

I ask you again to check the video I posted. That is clearly from 95-96. Before he ever "used" anything.

You just contradicted yourself. Rose broke a written rule. His values are not something that should be spread to kids (using your methods).

Bonds didn't break any rules. But by your definition of your own values, he is a terrible person.

Pick a side here. You can't have it both ways.

Fact is, Bonds swing is masterful. You cannot deny that. Try and spin it any which distorted way you want, anyone can learn from one of the top 5 greatest hitters THAT EVER LIVED.

[Mark H]

Actually, that's not squishing the bug.

I have seen much worse.

I too have seen worse but I have to agree with HG on this one. That's bug squishing.

[Chris O'Leary]

I too have seen worse but I have to agree with HG on this one. That's bug squishing.

The thing is that this guy gets some weight shift.

In a prototypical bug squisher there's no weight shift. They start back, stay back, and spin on their back instep.

http://www.chrisoleary.com/projects/Baseball/Hitting/Videos/Video_Hitting__Youth_RT_1B_001.gif

[Twitch5]

For all of his faults, which are numerous, Pete Rose was never accused or even suspected of using steroids.

I think that's more a result of the era that Rose played in. From everything I've read about Rose, he would be the first in line if something would give a player an "edge".

[Chris O'Leary]

Bonds didn't break any rules. But by your definition of your own values, he is a terrible person.

Pick a side here. You can't have it both ways.

Fact is, Bonds swing is masterful. You cannot deny that. Try and spin it any which distorted way you want, anyone can learn from one of the top 5 greatest hitters THAT EVER LIVED.

Barry Bonds is a cheater, and he cheated in order to take a record away from a far more deserving player and a better man.

I have chosen to deal with that fact by ignoring Barry Bonds.

[Chris O'Leary]

I think that's more a result of the era that Rose played in. From everything I've read about Rose, he would be the first in line if something would give a player an "edge".

That's immaterial and pure supposition.

Pete Rose never used steroids or HGH.

Barry Bonds did.

[CoachW]

I have been on these boards for a while and honestly thought Chris had some good ideas on pitching and hitting(especially pitching), but my opinion has changed greatly over the past few months for many reasons. This argument Chris that you have going about Bonds compared to Rose is very interesting to say the least. In one of your last posts you called Bonds a cheater. Rose was the manager of a MLB baseball team and gambled on his team trying to win money. Is that cheating? This argument that since Bonds took steroids you won't look at his swing but Rose is ok since he didn't take steroids borders on plain weirdness. My respect for you as a coach and expert has really taken a serious dive man. At least be consistent in your beliefs and be man enough to admit when maybe you made a mistake.

Coach W

[Chris O'Leary]

I have been on these boards for a while and honestly thought Chris had some good ideas on pitching and hitting(especially pitching), but my opinion has changed greatly over the past few months for many reasons. This argument Chris that you have going about Bonds compared to Rose is very interesting to say the least. In one of your last posts you called Bonds a cheater. Rose was the manager of a MLB baseball team and gambled on his team trying to win money. Is that cheating? This argument that since Bonds took steroids you won't look at his swing but Rose is ok since he didn't take steroids borders on plain weirdness. My respect for you as a coach and expert has really taken a serious dive man. At least be consistent in your beliefs and be man enough to admit when maybe you made a mistake.

Pete Rose's swing wasn't affected by his cheating.

[jbooth]

IMO, when it comes to role models what matters isn't just how good of a PLAYER someone was but also how good of a PERSON they were.

Why not teach people to copy Stan Musial?

Well, that wasn't the topic, at least for ME. I was only talking about the swing. I think Bonds is a rotten individual, but I don't think a person can swing much more effeciently and effectively than he and Williams did.

[CoachW]

Look I don't agree with what Bonds did or might have done. I feel steroids definitely would help him hit the ball farther, but why not look at his swing when he played with the Pirates? I mean his swing is still the same basically. I have no problem with you not liking Bonds or not wanting your kids to idol him, but is this really just about which guy's swing you want to look at?? It doesn't seem that way to me and if it is just about the swing, then why not look at his swing prior to the "steroid era"??

Coach W

[beemax]

Pete Rose's swing wasn't affected by his cheating.

Then why not just stick to Bonds' pre-roid swing, where the only difference is about 40 pounds of muscle.

His mechanics are the same. His numbers and longevity were affected by his cheating. His mechanics stayed consistent. In an era where the majority of players were using, he stood head and shoulders above the rest. I don't think that is because he was using any better steroids, he just had the swing that was better than everyone else's.

[beemax]

I don't think cheaters should be held up as examples when there are non-cheaters who are just as worthy (if not more).

You'll notice that I have never help up McGwire as an example. I used to admire him. Now, not so much.


...Yet you use Mark McGwire on your website... hypocrisy anyone?

[beemax]

Barry Bonds is a cheater, and he cheated in order to take a record away from a far more deserving player and a better man.

I have chosen to deal with that fact by ignoring Barry Bonds.

... Yet you have swing analysis of Barry Bonds on your website...

You also seem to have no problem with using Roger Clemens and his mechanics on your website. I guess you are just ignoring what he has done when it comes to cheating as well.

Listen, I have no problem using any guy's swing or delivery to teach. What type of person he was has no effect on if I will learn from him or not. To say that you ignore Barry Bonds because he cheated while using him on your website, along with McGwire and Clemens, is so hypocritical its not even funny.

This whole thing would not have come to this if we stuck to the mechanics and left the other things out of it. Chris, you chose to share your opinions and it appears that your foot is becoming lodged in your mouth.

[Chris O'Leary]

Then why not just stick to Bonds' pre-roid swing, where the only difference is about 40 pounds of muscle.

His mechanics are the same. His numbers and longevity were affected by his cheating. His mechanics stayed consistent. In an era where the majority of players were using, he stood head and shoulders above the rest. I don't think that is because he was using any better steroids, he just had the swing that was better than everyone else's.

I'm fine with that, as long as its from college or the first couple of years in his career. There are some jumps in his numbers (e.g. SLG) that make me wonder when he really started using.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/b/bondsba01.shtml

[Chris O'Leary]

... Yet you have swing analysis of Barry Bonds on your website...

Because people have asked for it.

[beemax]

Because people have asked for it.

Doesn't look like you are ignoring him.

[Chris O'Leary]

...Yet you use Mark McGwire on your website... hypocrisy anyone?

Please.

I have one photo of Mark McGwire on my entire web site.

[Stealth]

Chris - No bug squishing in that clip, what are you looking at?

I agree with the others: you don't have to like Bonds but the guy is arguably the greatest hitter of all time. We should all be watching his clips and learning from him, period.

[Chris O'Leary]

Chris - No bug squishing in that clip, what are you looking at?

Which clip are you talking about?

[beemax]

Please.

I have one photo of Mark McGwire on my entire web site.

Lets revisit what you said:

Originally Posted by Chris O'Leary
I don't think cheaters should be held up as examples when there are non-cheaters who are just as worthy (if not more).

You'll notice that I have never help up McGwire as an example. I used to admire him. Now, not so much.

Never?

You never use him, yet you do... hmmm...

[cosmo34]

I'm fine with that, as long as its from college or the first couple of years in his career. There are some jumps in his numbers (e.g. SLG) that make me wonder when he really started using.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/b/bondsba01.shtml

What when he raised his SLG by a .130 points over one year? I dont know about you, but I don't expect too many 24 year old players to slug .500 when they are hitting .248. The year before he hit .283 and almost slugged .500. His 25 year old season he bumped his average up to .301 and his slugging raised along with it.

Yup, guys don't improve from their 23-25 year old years and any jumps in performance is solely due to steroids. Nevermind that the guy has some of the best genetics out there. He couldn't have made an adjustment in his approach and started turning and burning more often could he? Nope, he used steroids all the way back to 1990. You heard it here first gentlemen, guys don't make adjustmets or grow up naturally. They simply up the dosage.


Let's recap- You never use Mac, but you have him on your website. You ignore Bonds, but you have him on your website. Clemens falls under the same category of those two, but you have him on there as well.

Gonzo, Thome, Bonds do the same thing. Bonds should be discounted because of his steroids, and your distaste for him.

Rose shouldn't because his rule breaking was different that Bonds.

You think Bonds swing should be discounted because steroids enable him to be less efficient.

Video proves otherwise. He's been swinging that way his ENTIRE career.

If it was just the steroids, why wasn't every player that used hitting 60+ home runs? Because Bonds has superior mechanics and genetic talent.

This isn't a discussion about how you feel about a player. Keep your feelings out of this. This is a discussion about mechanics and mechanics only.

Bonds is a Top 5 player of all time. Bonds has some of the best mechanics ever. You discount him because of how you feel about him.

On a mechanics only matter, Bonds should be worshipped.

This hasn't been your finest showing.

[cubsphill]

barry bonds is my role model. i hope to someday use as much ped's as him.

[Mark H]

The thing is that this guy gets some weight shift.

In a prototypical bug squisher there's no weight shift. They start back, stay back, and spin on their back instep.

http://www.chrisoleary.com/projects/Baseball/Hitting/Videos/Video_Hitting__Youth_RT_1B_001.gif

As I agreed with you, I've seen worse. But I don't see him getting off the backside among other things.

[hiddengem]

The thing is that this guy gets some weight shift.

In a prototypical bug squisher there's no weight shift. They start back, stay back, and spin on their back instep.

http://www.chrisoleary.com/projects/Baseball/Hitting/Videos/Video_Hitting__Youth_RT_1B_001.gif


Chris, you have really regressed lately...This guy has zero weight shift, and is the prototypical bug squisher. I think he actually goes backwards with his shift. Are you telling your "student" that I played against tonight this stuff?

[jbooth]

Chris, you have really regressed lately...This guy has zero weight shift, and is the prototypical bug squisher. I think he actually goes backwards with his shift. Are you telling your boy that I played against tonight this stuff?

http://www.chrisoleary.com/projects/Baseball/Hitting/Videos/Video_Hitting__Youth_RT_1B_001.gif

Yes, he's squishing badly, his back foot is rotating before his hip moves, and he has little, if any, shift.

[LAball]

For multiple reasons, and general principles, I would never encourage anyone to copy Barry Bonds.

Barry Bonds has unrealistic swing because he uses a tiny bat with unrealistic power.

Maybe Young Barry's swing can be studied...

[cosmo34]

34/31.5 is tiny?

As far as I know, he stayed with that size for a long time.

Griffey is 34/31, Arod is 34/32.

[FiveFrameSwing]

Getting up on the back toe is not an absolute by any means.


Correct! Getting up on the back toe is not an absolute. It is more an indication of a proper forward weight shift, but one does not have to have get up on their back toe to produce a proper weight shift.

It is the "weight shift" that is more of an absolute.

[FiveFrameSwing]

HOWEVER,
What I think you need to do on here and your website is post a disclaimer saying that your teachings on the mechanics of hitting are not just that, but that your personal feelings on the hitters themselves will cause you to either like their mechanics or not. Thats what it sounds like to me.


I laughed out loud when I read this.

Personally I see specialists because of their knowledge and ability to transfer information that I find valuable.

In terms of coaching, I largely rely on the parents to teach the kids "values". Should the "values" of a kid not match up with my expectations (i.e., stealing, casual swearing, etc.) then I cut them. IMO their parents failed to prepare them properly. It's not my problem. I don't believe a coach should be giving parents parenting advice.

Barry's swing is exceptional. I study it frequently. I'd consider it foolish to ignore his highly efficient swing.

[FiveFrameSwing]

Isn't that funny..Rose is banned from the game and Bonds isn't.

You made me laugh out loud again.

That was just too funny!

[FiveFrameSwing]

http://www.chrisoleary.com/projects/Baseball/Hitting/Videos/Video_Hitting__Youth_RT_1B_001.gif

Yes, he's squishing badly, his back foot is rotating before his hip moves, and he has little, if any, shift.

Agree! This hitter's lower body mechanics are terrible and are a direct result of multiple flaws in his swing.

[Chris O'Leary]

Chris, you have really regressed lately...This guy has zero weight shift, and is the prototypical bug squisher. I think he actually goes backwards with his shift. Are you telling your "student" that I played against tonight this stuff?

http://www.chrisoleary.com/projects/Baseball/Hitting/Videos/Video_Hitting__Youth_RT_1B_001.gif

No.

The clip shows a terrible swing that I have had no input in (he goes to a private instructor) and that makes me sick whenever I look at it.

In particular, I hate the lack of weight shift and the pretty much dead lower half.

HG, PM me with your e-mail address and I'll send you a Pujols analysis that I've been sending to my higher-level followers (which is currently a more accurate term than "student"). If focuses on how Pujols still shifts his weight significantly despite his minimal stride. I haven't seen Yeager's stuff, but I think what I'm talking about and advocating is pretty consistent.

[Chris O'Leary]

Some people are under the impression that this is a clip of one of my students...

http://www.chrisoleary.com/projects/Baseball/Hitting/Videos/Video_Hitting__Youth_RT_1B_001.gif

It is NOT.

This kid plays on my son's team but goes to a private hitting instructor.

I agree with all of the negative comments about his swing (e.g. squishing the bug, dead lower half, lack of weight shift) and am actively trying to get the instructor to change what he teaches.

[Mark H]

If focuses on how Pujols still shifts his weight significantly despite his minimal stride.

No doubt.

.

[Mark H]

Some people are under the impression that this is a clip of one of my students...


It is NOT.

This kid plays on my son's team but goes to a private hitting instructor.

I agree with all of the negative comments about his swing (e.g. squishing the bug, dead lower half, lack of weight shift) and am actively trying to get the instructor to change what he teaches.

I'd love to sit in on a lesson and see what he takes money for. How long has he been going to this instructor.

[Chris O'Leary]

I'd love to sit in on a lesson and see what he takes money for. How long has he been going to this instructor.

I think he's been seeing the instructor since January or so.

[Mark H]

Ouch.


.

[Chris O'Leary]

Ouch.

I think what's confusing people is that he CRUSHES the ball during lessons and in BP and generally looks awesome. However, that is generally against soft-tossing coaches. I'm not sure, but I also think he may have hit against soft-tossing opponents.

The problem is that for reasons we've established, his swing doesn't translate against good pitching.

In general, a veritable plague of bat drag is problem with multiple guys on the team who either have private instructors or who won't listen to me.

Now, I'm not saying that my son kills the ball, but he IS able to catch up to most pitching and hit solid singles.

[Mark H]

Yeah bat draggers are heart breakers for those that see how well they hit with power against pitching of a certain level.

[hiddengem]

HG, PM me with your e-mail address and I'll send you a Pujols analysis that I've been sending to my higher-level followers (which is currently a more accurate term than "student"). If focuses on how Pujols still shifts his weight significantly despite his minimal stride. I haven't seen Yeager's stuff, but I think what I'm talking about and advocating is pretty consistent.

Ok.

Tough night tonight for Andres. Haven't quite been there, but close.

[phantom]

...............................

[3and0]

by this turning up on the toe like stated in the first post is it a little bit more like a golf swing should look like or what?