pivot back foot?

[BaseballOC2]

i've heard from hitting coaches to pivot your back foot, i've also heard from other coaches not to pivot your back foot when your swinging.

should i pivot my back foot when i swing?

i've heard that if you do you will loose all of your power, is this true?

[Jake Patterson]

OC2,
Any of the rotational threads discuss this. Take a look at them first and then come back with questions. We would have to understand your definition of "pivot." The back foot does rotate up so the back toe comes off the ground and moves forward. Like this:
45551

[BaseballOC2]

what i'm talking about is if you look at a carlos quentin slow swing (hard to find) his back foot never pivots or (leaves the ground), it stays on the ground, and never lifts. I've heard that, that gives more power.

[jbooth]

what i'm talking about is if you look at a carlos quentin slow swing (hard to find) his back foot never pivots or (leaves the ground), it stays on the ground, and never lifts. I've heard that, that gives more power.

The foot is irrelevant. The power comes from rotating the hips. Quentin is in the very small minority of players who keep their foot down, and he was taught to do it, to correct another problem.

ALL MLB hitters rotate, and the lifting of the back heel, and often the whole foot, is a result of the foot following the rotation. Most hitters shift into the front foot as they rotate, and the more weight you shift, the more the back foot comes up. Quentin is keeping the foot down to keep the rotation centered. I can only remember seeing one or two other MLB hitters out of 450 who keep the back foot down like he does. The VAST majority look like this;

http://firstpickclub.com/images/manny_contact.jpg

http://firstpickclub.com/images/heelup.jpg

[StraightGrain11]

what i'm talking about is if you look at a carlos quentin slow swing (hard to find) his back foot never pivots or (leaves the ground), it stays on the ground, and never lifts. I've heard that, that gives more power.

:laugh I was wondering when that was going to come up...:rolleyes:
It has more to do with that "spinning" on your back foot is simply that - spinning, there is little (if any) weight-transfer occuring.
This is more what he is referring to...
http://www.swingtraining.net/clips/marte-drew-hands.jpg
You cannot get your foot into this position if you are "spinning" on it.
Pay close attention to this motion (on the R - JD Drew)
http://www.swingtraining.net/clips/marte-drew-drag.gif
as the foot "rolls" from the outside to the inside, weight transfer occurs.
Here are few more "live" examples...
You will notice that as the hips turn, and the knee comes "down and in", the back heel is "lifted" off the ground (as opposed to the foot spinning).
http://www.swingtraining.net/clips/marte-drew-st.gif
http://www.swingtraining.net/clips/arod-06-07-st.gif
http://www.swingtraining.net/image/upton-weeks-soriano-st.gif
http://www.swingtraining.net/clips/wright-06-07-x4-st1.gif

[Stealth]

I have seen some instructors teach their kids to pivot and then swing - ugh!

[BaseballOC2]

i think when i swing i can cover the outter half of the plate better, and go offosite feild harder, is this right or am i doing something wrong?

[BaseballOC2]

Also I have another question in this one, I have been feeling lately that i am getting jammed on every pitch, even pitches down the middle. I am standing in the middle of the batters box, so I don't think that I am crowding the plate. I always feel now that I am extending my hands on inside pitches, and getting "sawed-off"? why?

[jbooth]

Also I have another question in this one, I have been feeling lately that i am getting jammed on every pitch, even pitches down the middle. I am standing in the middle of the batters box, so I don't think that I am crowding the plate. I always feel now that I am extending my hands on inside pitches, and getting "sawed-off"? why?

You're probably pushing your hands toward the ball, or toward the pitcher, instead of keeping them inside the ball. Or, IOW, the hands should stay close to your body and extend toward the SS if you're righty, and to the second baseman, if you're lefty. Your hands should go around your body with your rotation, unless the pitch is down and away.

[Swing Coach]

Ditto what Mr. Booth said. If you think "take the hands to the ball" you will get sawed off....especially on inside pitches. I have experience with this in a wood bat tourney I play in every year.

[Chris O'Leary]

should i pivot my back foot when i swing?

i've heard that if you do you will loose all of your power, is this true?

No.

Keeping both heels on the ground will turn you into a weak, arm-y swinger.

That's why 99% of major leaguers do not do this.

[Shake Zula]

I've come across this Pedro Alvarez clip, and at 0:10 of the clip, they show a slo-mo of his swing and he really looks like he's spinning/pivoting on hit back leg like Drew Butera in Dr. Yeager's DVD.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfhY6-EpovM

I do feel that it's inefficient, but fascinating...

[Chris O'Leary]

I've come across this Pedro Alvarez clip, and at 0:10 of the clip, they show a slo-mo of his swing and he really looks like he's spinning/pivoting on hit back leg like Drew Butera in Dr. Yeager's DVD.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfhY6-EpovM

I do feel that it's inefficient, but fascinating...

What I see at :10 is totally normal in terms of back foot action.

[tom.guerry]

I think it is important when looking at many hitters to identify the details of sequence that are universal/"ideal".

a universal like this in my experience does NOT have to mean it can be seen on video of every player, BUT it means that, where seen, the sequence is always the same and opposed actions are NOT seen.

So with back foot (MLB pattern) , you see first slight ANTI-bug squishin rotation as leg abduction/knee spreading transitions into rotating into toe touch.

THEN there is some eversion/extension of the back foot, similar to last bit of push with overhand pitching. rubberbandwinding continues

THEN there is the effect of rotation that turns heel to sky. drop and tilt/additional torso coil/load/stretch/cusp/x-factor stretch

THEN there is toe drag. unloading

then heel falls back in reaction to disconnection/deceleration.

[Stealth]

Also I have another question in this one, I have been feeling lately that i am getting jammed on every pitch, even pitches down the middle. I am standing in the middle of the batters box, so I don't think that I am crowding the plate. I always feel now that I am extending my hands on inside pitches, and getting "sawed-off"? why?


Often times when the hands come forward during the load and they do not "stay back" near the rear shoulder at launch you will get jammed.

[Johnny Yuma]

I really enjoyed viewing the video and reading the informative post by StraightGrain11 regarding spinning on the back foot - lack of weight transfer.

Any thoughts by anyone on how to get out of this very thoroughly ingrained habit? Has anyone else ever experienced this problem?

[FanRuth714]

help with back leg posted elsewhere:

I just returned from my visit with Dr. Yeager. During that time I had the opportunity to meet Hidden Gem. Dr. Yeager and I went to watch him play and some things really became clear. Yeager said that the foot work is 2/3 of the swing. During that AAA game you could see the ones that had the right foot work and those who didn't. A couple of players stood out when watching live. Hidden Gem and two teammates of his the SS (cant remeber his name) and a player named Billy Butler. Their lower body actions were the begining pattern of the high level swing. These guys weren't feeling for their swings. They had the ability to just let it go.

In the upper left clip Brandon is doing all of his work with the front side. He is doing the lifting of the stride foot with his front leg and moving out with the front leg. In the upper right clip he is doing all the work off the back leg. The loading or sitting is a start. It brings the weight off the front foot so you can move it forward by shifting off the back side. In my practice sessions with Yeager he casually said something that clicked for me. In my mind I am striding with my back leg. The ability to go forward yet stay back.

Left clip is rushed and jerky the right clip is smooth and under control.

retkag

[StraightGrain11]

I really enjoyed viewing the video and reading the informative post by StraightGrain11 regarding spinning on the back foot - lack of weight transfer.

Any thoughts by anyone on how to get out of this very thoroughly ingrained habit? Has anyone else ever experienced this problem?

Yuma, check your PMs.

[FiveFrameSwing]

You're probably pushing your hands toward the ball, or toward the pitcher, instead of keeping them inside the ball. Or, IOW, the hands should stay close to your body and extend toward the SS if you're righty, and to the second baseman, if you're lefty. Your hands should go around your body with your rotation, unless the pitch is down and away.

Well said Jim!

[mbs]

Booth:The power comes from rotating the hips.

the power comes from the legs pushing against the ground......

[Mark H]

From another thread in answer to a poster talking about a push.


Again, sort of. Is it ankle extension or knee extension? So then would you really say push from the back foot? Sort of. It is the part touching the ground. As I've said before, Grandma, Larry Little League and elite ML hitters all would show a push on a force plate at the beginning of momentum development/stride. Same thing only different. This difference is what Dixon was trying to characterize in his book.

[jbooth]

Booth:

the power comes from the legs pushing against the ground......

Which needs to be done in such a way that it rotates the hips. You can push against the ground and not rotate the hips (slide sideways), which would not give any power to the hit.

The goal is to rotate the hips and torso. How you think of doing it is a personal thing, but you are correct, in reality it comes from leg action.

[mbs]

in reality it comes from leg action.


Yes Jim..





H you will see the light--one day.....

[Mark H]

Leg action. Sort of. It's not knee extension but there is pressure against the ground certainly. And Booth makes a good point about part of it.

It's entirely accurate to say the momentum buildup in the core/butt/upper thighs to lower torso is fueled by pressure against the ground. That momentum of the middle is then used to fuel the swing.

[FiveFrameSwing]

It's entirely accurate to say the momentum buildup in the core/butt/upper thighs to lower torso is fueled by pressure against the ground.


I agree.


That momentum of the middle is then used to fuel the swing.

I'll need to think of this some more.

To me it's about accelerating and decelerating segments ... i.e., the transfer of momentum to various body segments. I believe I've read some of your posts in which you used the term "unloading", and I've often wondered if what you meant was the transfer of momentum to various body segments.

[Mark H]

I agree.



I'll need to think of this some more.

To me it's about accelerating and decelerating segments ... i.e., the transfer of momentum to various body segments. I believe I've read some of your posts in which you used the term "unloading", and I've often wondered if what you meant was the transfer of momentum to various body segments.

Yes sometimes that is what I'm talking about, but the first segment is the big one. I sometimes am referring to this when I'm talking about loading and unloading http://imageevent.com/siggy/hitting/analysis;jsessionid=d5xnfocck1.buffalo_s?p=10&n=1&m=20&c=4&l=0&w=4&s=0&z=9 and sometimes I'm referring to this http://imageevent.com/siggy/hitting/analysis?p=9&n=1&m=20&c=4&l=0&w=4&s=0&z=9 but it's all part of the kinetic chain/unloading/transferring momentum from the proximal big parts (starting with the butt) to the distal smaller parts as you point out.


On the first point you agreed with me on, this I think is at the bottom of the disagreement between those who argue ground and legs versus those who argue move the middle. I'd say it's often a case of not understanding each other's view point and definitions and not always a true substantive disagreement.

[FiveFrameSwing]

Thank you Mark.

[beemax]

what i'm talking about is if you look at a carlos quentin slow swing (hard to find) his back foot never pivots or (leaves the ground), it stays on the ground, and never lifts. I've heard that, that gives more power.

It doesn't always stay on the ground. I believe he tries to keep it down, as it is an adjustment he has made this year, but it definitely does not always stay on the ground.

In regards to Quentin and his back foot, it has obviously been discussed quite a bit on here lately. IMO, what the back foot does is not as important as the rotation that is involved in it. Some guys get off their toe, up on their toe, or neither. What matters is the rotation, not necessarily what your back foot does.