Alomar vs Biggio

[George H Ruth]

Both spent most of their career at second, and both of them were great. But who was better, and why?

I'll my respond shortly

[Otis Nixon's Bodyguard]

At his peak, I'd say that Alomar was slightly better, but Biggio gets the nod for career value. It wouldn't surprise me if that is the consensus around here.

[Colorado Express]

Maybe I'm crazy, but I think Alomar was a much better 2B than Biggio. Numbers are more similar than I would care to admit, but Alomar seemed to be much more dominant during his time. Biggio's power surge and change in build makes me a bit suspicious, too.

[Transplanted Fan]

Alomar at his peak was a vastly superior player than Biggio at his peak, especially on the defensive end. If Roberto could have played at a respectable level into his forties like Craig did, instead of dropping off from being an All-Star and MVP candidate at 33 to out of baseball at 36, we would not be having this conversation. Longevity and character do matter in baseball, and Biggio definitely prevails over Alomar in those categories. If I had to choose one, Alomar would prevail by a small margin. They're both Hall-of-Famers in my book, though.

[George H Ruth]

I loved both of these guys and I realize that Biggio had the HBP's and all that but Iwould take Alomar everyday of the week, he was a freak out there. Defensively I do not think we will see another player that would make plays like Robbie did, he had instincts like I have never seen before. he was a surly player and known by many as the guy who spat in the umpires face but he was an incredible hitter, line drive with power and average kind of hitter, knocked runs in and back to the defense...he made plays that people thought were impossible; playing for the Blue Jays, ball hit between him and Olerud, both go for it...Alomar gets it and the pitcher is not covering so Alomar beats the runner to the bag with a head first slide to get the runner by a step...saw him do a similar thing with the Orioles a few years later. Biggio was nice and a great person by Robby Alomar was the real deal.

[Otis Nixon's Bodyguard]

They're both Hall-of-Famers in my book, though.

Agreed, although Biggio will likely have a much easier time getting in.

Although I've already conceded that Alomar was better at his peak, I'll make a case for Biggio being a little closer than some of you might think. In terms of OPS+, their top five full seasons were:

Alomar: 150, 141, 139, 136, 129
Biggio: 143, 141, 139, 138, 130

That makes them look neck-and-neck as hitters. For some reason, I feel like Alomar's advantage as a hitter is a little larger than that though. They were both stealing plenty of bases at a good success rate as well. Alomar's big advantage was on defense - he is truly one of the great defensive second basemen of all time. Biggio wasn't bad at all, but he wasn't in Alomar territory. Either way, they're not that far apart overall. Does anyone know why Alomar stopped being productive at age 34? I don't remember it being a big deal, but rather him just quietly dropping off the map. If he'd been able to decline more gradually, I don't think there would be any argument (other than the spitting incident) against putting hin in the HOF. As it stands, I'd still vote for him though.

[Afterglow]

I loved both of these guys and I realize that Biggio had the HBP's and all that but Iwould take Alomar everyday of the week, he was a freak out there. Defensively I do not think we will see another player that would make plays like Robbie did, he had instincts like I have never seen before. he was a surly player and known by many as the guy who spat in the umpires face but he was an incredible hitter, line drive with power and average kind of hitter, knocked runs in and back to the defense...he made plays that people thought were impossible; playing for the Blue Jays, ball hit between him and Olerud, both go for it...Alomar gets it and the pitcher is not covering so Alomar beats the runner to the bag with a head first slide to get the runner by a step...saw him do a similar thing with the Orioles a few years later. Biggio was nice and a great person by Robby Alomar was the real deal.

I perfer Robbie as a player. But I get the sense that on this forum, people are gonna say that Alomar was a sportscenter type product. And what I mean by that is there gonna say that he is considered by many to be so great was because of his flashy plays. And that he really wasn't as great as he is considered, and Biggio was better.

I personally think that Alomar was a better 2nd baseman.

Biggio's prime offensivly is really good. But so was Robbie's. Robbie was able to drive in runs without a ton of power. He never went over 24 homers, but was still able to drive in 120.

If Robbie had a little more power he could have been a 5-tool player.

Too bad Robbie didn't get 3000 hits.

Biggio is hall bound. But I don't think Robbie is. Not because he doesn't have the numbers, but because of his innate ability to directly spit in people's eyes.

He should get in. But I personally think he will be shut out.

[George H Ruth]

He should get in the Hall though, during his prime he was one of the best players in the league, offensively and defensively.

Robbie belongs in the Hall of Fame, I know he didn't get to 3,000 hits, but I believe he should still get in. He retired due to injuries, if he was able to play another couple of more years I believe that he would of reached 3,000 and not one person would say that he doesn't belong in there.

Some of Biggio's numbers might be better, but if you compare both players side, Alomar is better then Biggion in a lot of aspects of the game in my opinion.

[Afterglow]

I also beleive he should get in. But that doesn't mean he will.

And injuries did catch up to him. And he got old quick. But I do beleive he would have gotten to 3000 had he been healthy. But he wasn't.

[willshad]

he suddenly dropped off the map because the mets have been cursed in recent years. Every time they add a star player, he is not as good as he was before. See also P. Martinez, C. Beltran, M. Vaughn, T. Glavine, J Santana, M Piazza, C Delgado

[Afterglow]

See also P. Martinez, C. Beltran, M. Vaughn, T. Glavine, J Santana, M Piazza, C Delgado

Most of those guys were starting to age. Tho I think I heard that Santana's pitch speed had decreased before the trade.

Which is one of those little things you never tell the other team. :rofl:

[baseball junkie]

Seriously how is this even a discussion? Alomar was always vastly superior.

I know you want a justification but just look at the stats.

We couldn't even be having this discussion if the Astros hadn't kept sending Biggio out to second base to artificially increase his career hit total and help him hit a milestone.

Is Craig Biggio the worst hitter to ever get 3,000 hits? I think so.

[Second Base Coach]

This is from a March, 2005 item over at ESPN:

Alomar's (retirement) announcement came one day after he committed two errors in one inning of a spring training game with the Devil Rays, who signed him to a $600,000, one-year contract in January.

Tampa Bay was attractive to Alomar because he wanted another chance to play every day, but the 37-year-old switch-hitter has been bothered by back and vision problems in recent weeks.

"I played a lot of games and I said I would never embarrass myself on the field," Alomar said. "I had a long career, but I can't play at the level I want to play, so it's time to retire."

He said he had doubts even entering camp.

"I just can't go anymore," Alomar said. "My back, legs and eyes aren't the same."

[George H Ruth]

This is from a March, 2005 item over at ESPN:

Alomar's (retirement) announcement came one day after he committed two errors in one inning of a spring training game with the Devil Rays, who signed him to a $600,000, one-year contract in January.

Tampa Bay was attractive to Alomar because he wanted another chance to play every day, but the 37-year-old switch-hitter has been bothered by back and vision problems in recent weeks.

"I played a lot of games and I said I would never embarrass myself on the field," Alomar said. "I had a long career, but I can't play at the level I want to play, so it's time to retire."

He said he had doubts even entering camp.

"I just can't go anymore," Alomar said. "My back, legs and eyes aren't the same."

I totally respect that from a player, he was used to play at a very high level and during his playing days, and was always considered one of the best second baseman during his tenure in Major League Baseball.

Why take the field when you know that your not able to play at the same level you played your all career. Go out with some dignity. Smart move from his part in my opinion.

[Otis Nixon's Bodyguard]

Is Craig Biggio the worst hitter to ever get 3,000 hits? I think so.

That "honor" probably goes to Lou Brock. I consider Biggio and Cal Ripken Jr. a notch above Brock with the wood, but probably still below all of the other 3,000 hit men.

[STLCards2]

he suddenly dropped off the map because the mets have been cursed in recent years. Every time they add a star player, he is not as good as he was before. See also P. Martinez, C. Beltran, M. Vaughn, T. Glavine, J Santana, M Piazza, C Delgado

Santana is putting up similar numbers to last year. He is in the top 7-8 in the league both innings and ERA+. The first noticable drop in his numbers came last year as a Twin. he went from super-dominant to really, really good. I wish people would stop acting like Santana is mediocre or something (I am not saying you are doing this - just in general). As another poster said, all of the guys you mentioned (save Satana and Beltran) were signed entering their decline phase anyway. They would have put up worse numbers that their career bests on any team. The issue isn't a "curse" but the Mets desire to spend big money on guys who's best is behind them. This is an ownership/GM issue, nothing else.

[PVNICK]

Defensively does someone have an explanation for why their range factors per 9 were nearly identical 4.97 for Alomar and 4.95 for Biggio both with a 5.06 league average? Vizquel's range is also near league average, so maybe it was something with Cleveland's staff or the park or the staff. I have to go with Biggio, there's just something about Alomar I never liked, even pre-spitting, that I can't quite put a finger on.

[willshad]

Santana is putting up similar numbers to last year. He is in the top 7-8 in the league both innings and ERA+. The first noticable drop in his numbers came last year as a Twin. he went from super-dominant to really, really good. I wish people would stop acting like Santana is mediocre or something (I am not saying you are doing this - just in general). As another poster said, all of the guys you mentioned (save Satana and Beltran) were signed entering their decline phase anyway. They would have put up worse numbers that their career bests on any team. The issue isn't a "curse" but the Mets desire to spend big money on guys who's best is behind them. This is an ownership/GM issue, nothing else.

just seems strange that guys are great the VERY SEASON before the Mets got them, then sudenly declined the NEXT season. Delgado , Alomar, Beltran, and Glavine, Vaughn are the extreme examples. The 2003-05 mets should have been an all time great team, with the talent they had. Beltran, Vaughn, Alomar, Floyd, Leiter, Piazza, Reyes, Wright, Pedro, Glavine. Talk about under achieving.

[Second Base Coach]

Defensively does someone have an explanation for why their range factors per 9 were nearly identical 4.97 for Alomar and 4.95 for Biggio both with a 5.06 league average? Vizquel's range is also near league average, so maybe it was something with Cleveland's staff or the park or the staff.

My guess would be the fact that almost everyone grades out to be an "average" fielder, and positive quirks often cancel out with negative quirks over the course of a player's career.

At least that is how current defensive metrics work out. I have yet to see a good one.

[KCGHOST]

I'll take Alomar for peak and career value. Only thing that makes this close is Biggio hanging around an extra five years putting up nominal numbers.