View Full Version : My Boys
Chris O'Leary
06-27-2008, 11:38 AM
I know that people are wondering how I apply the ideas I talk about with my own kids (and whether I even know what I'm talking about). Well, I just got a new toy (a 60 FPS videocamera) and I've been taping my boys to see how they are doing.
I am going to take a chance and post some of those videos so you can see how these ideas are working with my own boys. I am sure that my detractors (e.g. Paul Nyman, Richard/Teacherman, and others) will figure out a way to smear me with these, but who cares.
http://www.chrisoleary.com/projects/Baseball/Pitching/Videos/Miscellaneous/IO_CrowHop_06252008_001_Small.gif
This first clip is of my younger (8.5 YO) son throwing around to warm up during practice.
The funny (and surprising) thing is that he's using a crow hop, despite never having been taught how to do it. Either it came naturally to him or he's been watching my older son and me long toss.
I really haven't taught him much about throwing, period. We just play catch a lot and he's figured it out on his own and by watching my older son, my son's teammates, pro players, and me.
Maybe Paul will actually like this clip because my younger son isn't lacking in the intent department. He's got one of the strongest arms on the team, in part because he wants to.
Here's a link to a larger (4MB) version if you want to see more details...
- http://www.chrisoleary.com/projects/Baseball/Pitching/Videos/Miscellaneous/IO_CrowHop_06252008_001.gif
Not to hijack, but what type of camera did you buy?
APPpitch
06-27-2008, 11:56 AM
Chris,
Very nice. Just have your son bring his throwing arm down first in order to create a circle and you're gold.
Right now, he brings it out of his glove horizontally and it lays flat.
A nice circle with a slightly bent elbow is all he is missing right now; maybe keeping the glove side arm up and then in would be nice instead of the drop to the side.
Have fun!
And yes, did you buy the Casio camera?
-scott
callyjr
06-27-2008, 12:05 PM
i have a bday coming soon, i might want to look at a new video cam also. I would be interested to know the brand as well.
Chris O'Leary
06-27-2008, 02:10 PM
Sanyo Xacti VPC-CG9 9MP.
Shoots 60FPS at 640x480 resolution.
$270 at Amazon.com. Also got an 8GB memory card for $30.
rkbenn
06-27-2008, 02:32 PM
Not bad Chris for 8. IMO, I would like to see more lead with front hip, later separation, and lower separation. Like someone else said a little more bend of his arm. I have my son drop ball by back rear back leg, then come up to the thowing position that feels natural for him. Not bad though. RK
phantom
06-27-2008, 02:33 PM
Lookin good!.....funny how many times you see.....dad's throwing with their kids and the kids throw exactly how the dads are throwing...faults and all......mainly because its what they see and think is the proper way.
Sometimes you gotta teach the dads the proper way before you teach their kids.
Congrats Mr. Leary!!!.....
Lookin good!.....funny how many times you see.....dad's throwing with their kids and the kids throw exactly how the dads are throwing...faults and all......mainly because its what they see and think is the proper way.
Sometimes you gotta teach the dads the proper way before you teach their kids.
Congrats Mr. Leary!!!.....
It's not just the dads......why do you think so many girls have poor throwing form? Because their female coaches don't know how to throw either......
azmatsfan
06-27-2008, 06:16 PM
I don't know. Has your son thought about soccer?
Only joking! He's got nice mechanics for 8. His glove arm flies out as he follows through, but I would have taken a team full of kids that could throw like him on my 9/10 team this past season.
callyjr
06-27-2008, 09:49 PM
but I would have taken a team full of kids that could throw like him on my 9/10 team this past season.
I'll 2nd that
StraightGrain11
06-27-2008, 10:31 PM
His glove arm flies out as he follows through
That doesn't matter. The arm/glove is where it needs to be (over the Plant Foot) when the ball is released - Roger Clemens does (well, did) the same thing. :)
http://www.chrisoleary.com/projects/Baseball/Pitching/ImageSequences/RogerClemens_3B_001/Video_Pitching_RogerClemens_3B_001_48.jpghttp://www.chrisoleary.com/projects/Baseball/Pitching/Images/Pitchers/RogerClemens/RogerClemens_2006_001.jpghttp://www.chrisoleary.com/projects/Baseball/Pitching/ImageSequences/RogerClemens_3B_001/Video_Pitching_RogerClemens_3B_001_49.jpg
http://www.chrisoleary.com/projects/Baseball/Pitching/ImageSequences/RogerClemens_3B_001/Video_Pitching_RogerClemens_3B_001_51.jpghttp://www.chrisoleary.com/projects/Baseball/Pitching/ImageSequences/RogerClemens_3B_001/Video_Pitching_RogerClemens_3B_001_52.jpghttp://www.chrisoleary.com/projects/Baseball/Pitching/ImageSequences/RogerClemens_3B_001/Video_Pitching_RogerClemens_3B_001_54.jpg
http://www.chrisoleary.com/projects/Baseball/Pitching/ImageSequences/RogerClemens_3B_001/Video_Pitching_RogerClemens_3B_001_56.jpghttp://www.chrisoleary.com/projects/Baseball/Pitching/ImageSequences/RogerClemens_3B_001/Video_Pitching_RogerClemens_3B_001_59.jpghttp://www.chrisoleary.com/projects/Baseball/Pitching/Videos/Miscellaneous/IO_CrowHop_06252008_001_Small.gif
dolphindan1
06-27-2008, 11:07 PM
I don't know. Has your son thought about soccer?
Only joking! He's got nice mechanics for 8. His glove arm flies out as he follows through, but I would have taken a team full of kids that could throw like him on my 9/10 team this past season.
thats the only thing I kinda see wrong too...I think he needs to tuck the glove not let it swing around his body...but he will pick that up too...he is only 8...looks good to me...
StraightGrain11
06-27-2008, 11:43 PM
thats the only thing I kinda see wrong too...I think he needs to tuck the glove not let it swing around his body...but he will pick that up too...he is only 8...looks good to me...
See the above post. :)
Why does it matter what the glove does after the ball is released - as long as it is in the "proper" position (and the mechanics are "sound" up to) when the ball is released?
That would be like comparing finishing a swing one-handed to finishing with two hands - as long as the body is in the correct position at contact, what does it matter?
This is NOT comparable to finishing "high" or "flat" - because in order to finish "flat", something ["unsound"] must have occured earlier in [the mechanics of] the swing for you to do so. And by the concensus, it's sounds as if his mechanics are "sound" up to release, therefore the "finish" (follow-thru) is purely "style" - it does not affect the DELIVERY (everything up to release) of the ball/pitch in anyway.
Ursa Major
06-28-2008, 12:15 AM
For 8.5, that's a fine motion. Rather than tinker with it, I'd suggest getting him prepared for pitching in 9-10 y/o ball by working off a rubber and hitting spots. He can fine tune the issues discussed by others as part of his pitching motion, but for a general throwing motion for a fielder, he'd be in the top 10% of any team in that age bracket. So, go ahead and focus on hitting or fielding or, better, yet, just having a heap of fun playing with him.
But, heck, it doesn't matter what we think. What counts is what the Marshallistas think... and what the "over/under" bet is among that crowd as tp when he'll have a career-ending pitching-related injury because he's not using Marshall-approved mechanics! :p
Deemax
06-28-2008, 07:25 AM
IMO your sons arm is working just fine.
His footwork is backwards though. Crossing your back leg in front of your front leg in your stride forward totally eliminates the possibility of him keeping his lead hip and front shoulder closed. IMO this is not a crow hop.
I know your a fan of hip seperation. What your son is doing with his feet in your clip wont aid hip seperation at all.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q5JCb3DWDEE
If you want to get a better gauge of how your sons feet are "naturally" working, have him stand in center field and hit him a ball. Tell him to see if he can throw the runner out at the plate. Watch his footwork when he gears up to make his best throw, and compare how his feet work with this throw as opposed to the clip you posted.
StraightGrain11
06-28-2008, 07:31 AM
IMO your sons arm is working just fine.
His footwork is backwards though. Crossing your back leg in front of your front leg in your stride forward totally eliminates the possibility of him keeping his lead hip and front shoulder closed. IMO this is not a crow hop.
I know your a fan of hip seperation. What your son is doing with his feet in your clip wont aid hip seperation at all.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q5JCb3DWDEE
If you want to get a better gauge of how your sons feet are "naturally" working, have him stand in center field and hit him a ball. Tell him to see if he can throw the runner out at the plate. Watch his footwork when he gears up to make his best throw, and compare how his feet work with this throw as opposed to the clip you posted.
Yes, PITCHERS are taught to play long toss/warm up this way because it aids in [replicating] "staying closed" [during a leg-kick].
But MOST fielders will not throw this way out of crow-hop. Most fielders will step "inside" with their plant foot - as his son is doing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LF28ahIO2Bg :)
Deemax
06-28-2008, 08:04 AM
But MOST fielders will not throw this way out of crow-hop. Most fielders will step "inside" with their plant foot - as his son is doing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LF28ahIO2Bg
We are seeing two totally different things. I dont know how the video you posted relates to Chris's son at all. Remember In my post to Chris's clip I suggested he throw from the outfield to see how his feet are working?
The video you posted isnt close to the video Chris posted.
In your clip, when the outfielders arm action begins his feet are not crossed (rear leg over and infront of lead leg).
In Chris's clip they are.
This is backwards. If you want to teach this I wont argue with you, but its physically a weaker move.
StraightGrain11
06-28-2008, 08:48 AM
We are seeing two totally different things. I dont know how the video you posted relates to Chris's son at all. Remember In my post to Chris's clip I suggested he throw from the outfield to see how his feet are working?
The video you posted isnt close to the video Chris posted.
In your clip, when the outfielders arm action begins his feet are not crossed (rear leg over and infront of lead leg).
In Chris's clip they are.
This is backwards. If you want to teach this I wont argue with you, but its physically a weaker move.
It's not? When does the rear leg (red) "cross behind" the lead leg (green)? Yes, I will agree, their timing is not the same - but the "footwork" is. I also agree that throwing from the OF is the best way to determine a player's "natural throwing motion". :)
azmatsfan
06-28-2008, 10:20 AM
That doesn't matter. The arm/glove is where it needs to be (over the Plant Foot) when the ball is released - Roger Clemens does (well, did) the same thing. :)
Look, I don't want to analyze Chris' son's mechanics to death, but the location of hs glove is no where near where Clemens is when he's releasing the ball. The boy's glove arm flies out. Clemens' glove is tucked into his chest. That being said, most 8/9 year olds have this same problem, and it's easy to fix.
StraightGrain11
06-28-2008, 11:57 AM
Look, I don't want to analyze Chris' son's mechanics to death, but the location of hs glove is no where near where Clemens is when he's releasing the ball. The boy's glove arm flies out. Clemens' glove is tucked into his chest. That being said, most 8/9 year olds have this same problem, and it's easy to fix.
Gloves are in the same spot - I think it is the forward angle of the body that is throwing you off....Remember, the body works to the glove - not the other way around. :)
azmatsfan
06-28-2008, 01:01 PM
Gloves are in the same spot - I think it is the forward angle of the body that is throwing you off....Remember, the body works to the glove - not the other way around. :)
We're saying the same thing I think. The glove may be in the same place in relation to his lead foot, but certainly not in relation to his chest. If he gets more weight out on that front foot he'll be there.
Also, it appears his glove is to his side and not in front of his body. It's hard to tell at this angle, but based on his follow through it appears to be the case anyway.
utility91
06-28-2008, 10:20 PM
my first year of baseball was when I was nine. The kid looks awesome.
callyjr
06-29-2008, 11:41 PM
Chris,
Thanks for posting this as it got my interested in seeing what my boy looked like. I was amazed at some of the things my boy is doing that you just don't pick up with the naked eye.
I would post a clip, but I don't want to hijack the thread, just wanted to say thanks for the idea.
Cally
rkbenn
06-30-2008, 09:10 AM
We're saying the same thing I think. The glove may be in the same place in relation to his lead foot, but certainly not in relation to his chest. If he gets more weight out on that front foot he'll be there.
Also, it appears his glove is to his side and not in front of his body. It's hard to tell at this angle, but based on his follow through it appears to be the case anyway.
i agree with your comments.
CoachHenry
06-30-2008, 09:13 AM
Your son's throw looks very nice and mechanically sound for his age.
Chris O'Leary
07-02-2008, 11:17 AM
Just to close this off, thanks to all who replied.
I agree that his biggest issue is that he does fly open with his glove, and we are going to work on brining his chest to his glove as he gets ready to pitch next year, but in general I'm not going to mess with him.