Top Guns Baseball

[utility91]

I just finished up this camp and am raving, I thought it was a great opportunity to show yourself. Has anyone else attended this camp? any comments?
thanks,
Nick

[Jake Patterson]

I just finished up this camp and am raving, I thought it was a great opportunity to show yourself. Has anyone else attended this camp? any comments?
thanks,
Nick
Nick, It's the right thing to be doing if you want to be playing as an adult.

Here's the problem... (And these are just very raw guesses...) In CT we have about 4-5 of these events in some form that I know of (possibly more when considering the smaller events held by the D1 colleges). If we assume that there are southern states that hold more of these events than CT and northern states that hold less we could assume that CT is a good barometer. At those I attend I see approximate 100-200 players. If we can accept this and accept that CT has about 3.5M people that would mean .17 players trying out at these camps per 1000 people (That's using 150 players per camp). Take this same number country wide and we have .17 X (300,000,000/1000) = 51,000 players at these camps. And this does not include all the college camps, pro camps, etc. and those being held over seas.

I went through this with my son... The PRIMARY reason for these camps is to raise money. Private companies who organize them are FOR PROFIT. Colleges who organize them do so to raise money for their teams. This does not imply that they are all scams, but I would offer caution when getting jazzed up at doing well at one.

[APPpitch]

Jake,

What has been your experience with Perfect Game?

The Northeast headquarters is in CT.

-scott

[Jake Patterson]

Jake,

What has been your experience with Perfect Game?

The Northeast headquarters is in CT.

-scott
I do not have any direct experience with them, but have spoke with Legion, HS coaches who have had players attend...

Like the others I feel it's a showcase for profit and 99% of those who attend do not have a shot. If you look at what these companies do...

They will get 100-200 players with some charging as much as $300.00, most are $100-$200. If they conduct 20 showcases per year that would be 20 X 150 players X $150.00 = $450,000.00

UCONN probably made $20,000.00 for their showcase last year and they used UCONN players (at no cost) to help run the drills.. and they were probably serious about 1-2 players.

I know the trends, but like basketball, the move away from community based ball to club based ball is bad for the sport and the those from the poorer communities. We are moving the game from America's greatest pastime to America's greatest business. Sad.

[TG Coach]

The PRIMARY reason for these camps is to raise money. Private companies who organize them are FOR PROFIT. Colleges who organize them do so to raise money for their teams. This does not imply that they are all scams, but I would offer caution when getting jazzed up at doing well at one.

There's nothing wrong with a business making money. It's up to the customer to make a rational decision they will get the desired result from the product.

[TG Coach]

Jake,

What has been your experience with Perfect Game?

The Northeast headquarters is in CT.

-scott

Perfect Game is the premier showcase organization. They're hooked in with Baseball America. When you hear how the MLB rates a player those ratings came from BA and PG. Head First runs a quality showcase for top students. TPX also runs quality showcases.

If an athlete is interested in a particular program it would be wise to attend their showcase. If a player is that good they get invited free. A local D1 runs showcases. They invite lower level D1, D2 and D3 coaches to watch. These are programs that won't be stealing the players the Big East school wants.

I went to watch one Sunday. Of the 36 players (they run six 36 player sessions) I saw four players with the kind of bat speed capable of playing Big East baseball. From talking to a player on the team I found out the coach found the four at PG showcases in other parts of the country and invited them to the showcase.

[TG Coach]

Like the others I feel it's a showcase for profit and 99% of those who attend do not have a shot. If you look at what these companies do...

The athlete has to make a rational decision about what kind of showcase to attend. That's why when posters think I'm a little harsh here with some of the high school kids here, I'm trying to reign them in to view things in terms of reality.

My son's team is playing in a D2 showcase this weekend. I don't think a D2 showcase is a bad move for a kid who knows he's not D1 material. The key is a kid admitting he's not D1 material (which is most players). It's irrlevant to my son. The schools attending are not important to him academically. But for some kids on the team these programs could be the right fit.

[Jake Patterson]

TG, I know you and I will never agree over this and I am OK with that. I look at many of these companies as snake oil salesmen selling to to the ignorant masses. They first fill parents' and players' heads with visions of grandeur and then slowly milk them until their kids finally quit the game.

I also see ignorant parents (sometimes self-inflicted ignorance) who actually believe that Jr. is the next coming of the Babe. They fill their sons and DD's heads with all kinds of false hope taking away from their children what the game can truly give to all involved.

If utility is the average ball player who attends these things (which typically makes him above average for his age) He probably has no shot at the pros, but I'll bet there was some coach there telling him how much potential he has, hell he probably even received a written report card telling him how good he could be. "If I were you son, I'd come back next year and the year after. Oh and yeah the prices are going up next year. Good luck and keep swinging." I think it's bad for the game and I feel bad for the game there are coaches willing to fill parents with this garbage and parents who are unwilling to learn.

[BallCoach06]

Like the others I feel it's a showcase for profit and 99% of those who attend do not have a shot. If you look at what these companies do...

The athlete has to make a rational decision about what kind of showcase to attend. That's why when posters think I'm a little harsh here with some of the high school kids here, I'm trying to reign them in to view things in terms of reality.

My son's team is playing in a D2 showcase this weekend. I don't think a D2 showcase is a bad move for a kid who knows he's not D1 material. The key is a kid admitting he's not D1 material (which is most players). It's irrlevant to my son. The schools attending are not important to him academically. But for some kids on the team these programs could be the right fit.

This hits the nail on the head. IMO, many kids shoot too high and really miss out on other options. I just helped run an professional tryout last week and the area scout that ran the workout made a comment that really rang true for many of the players. The message was a simple one for players looking to go to college and hopes of playing further along, "Find a school where you will play".

That is so true. If college players have aspirations of playing higher (pro ball), they have to be seen. In most cases, you can only be seen by playing. Picking the right college where they can play as soon as possible can be very important. As is getting a quality education that they will take with them the rest of their lives.

Perfect Game is right in my backyard. To the kids I come across that have college/pro level talent, I recommend that they attend one PG Showcase. I tell them this simply so they can get into their database. From there, do what you need to do to be seen. Attend tryouts, college camps, play in fall/spring/summer leagues depending on where you live, and if need be attend more showcases, but I help them to realize their talent level and try to help steer them in the right direction to help them as a player and their pocket book.

[callyjr]

TG, I know you and I will never agree over this and I am OK with that. I look at many of these companies as snake oil salesmen selling to to the ignorant masses. They first fill parents' and players' heads with visions of grandeur and then slowly milk them until their kids finally quit the game.

I also see ignorant parents (sometimes self-inflicted ignorance) who actually believe that Jr. is the next coming of the Babe. They fill their sons and DD's heads with all kinds of false hope taking away from their children what the game can truly give to all involved.

If utility is the average ball player who attends these things (which typically makes him above average for his age) He probably has no shot at the pros, but I'll bet there was some coach there telling him how much potential he has, hell he probably even received a written report card telling him how good he could be. "If I were you son, I'd come back next year and the year after. Oh and yeah the prices are going up next year. Good luck and keep swinging." I think it's bad for the game and I feel bad for the game there are coaches willing to fill parents with this garbage and parents who are unwilling to learn.

There are many ways to look at this, I attended many college games this year and also both OR and WA state HS tourneys, The scouts that I have gotten to know went to very few of the HS games and there sure didn't seem to be any college coaches attending. One HS game the only reason the scout was there was to see a sophmore that threw 95. He didn't pitch that night so the scout was kinda pissed that he wasted his night.

How else are these kids gonna get in front of the colleges and scouts. It is a business and some kids will never make it it but will keep the dream alive due being on front of these people.

Cally

[Jake Patterson]

"Find a school where you will play".

If you want to play ball this is great advice.

[Jake Patterson]

There are many ways to look at this,
Cally
I think there are only several ways...

I agree with you post above, that showcases have become the focal point when searching for talent. I have posted this several times, but will offer it once again. I spoke with a (several actually) D1 coach at the World Baseball Convention this past Feb. His view, one I share, was that showcases and TB are the worse thing that ever happened to the game as it places less emphasis on community based ball (HS) and places more emphasis on "pay to play" organizations i.e. TB, showcases, tourney teams, etc. He also admitted that while many college coaches feel the same, he also admitted that he and his cohort group are the ones who perpetuate the problem by attending them.

I am not questioning the value they offer for those very few who have the capabilities, I question the overall value they bring to the game.
Jake

[callyjr]

I think there are only several ways...

I agree with you post above, that showcases have become the focal point when searching for talent. I have posted this several times, but will offer it once again. I spoke with a (several actually) D1 coach at the World Baseball Convention this past Feb. His view, one I share, was that showcases and TB are the worse thing that ever happened to the game as it places less emphasis on community based ball (HS) and places more emphasis on "pay to play" organizations i.e. TB, showcases, tourney teams, etc. He also admitted that while many college coaches feel the same, he also admitted that he and his cohort group are the ones who perpetuate the problem by attending them.

I am not questioning the value they offer for those very few who have the capabilities, I question the overall value they bring to the game.
Jake

i c, good point

[TG Coach]

TG, I know you and I will never agree over this and I am OK with that. I look at many of these companies as snake oil salesmen selling to to the ignorant masses. They first fill parents' and players' heads with visions of grandeur and then slowly milk them until their kids finally quit the game.

I also see ignorant parents (sometimes self-inflicted ignorance) who actually believe that Jr. is the next coming of the Babe. They fill their sons and DD's heads with all kinds of false hope taking away from their children what the game can truly give to all involved.

If utility is the average ball player who attends these things (which typically makes him above average for his age) He probably has no shot at the pros, but I'll bet there was some coach there telling him how much potential he has, hell he probably even received a written report card telling him how good he could be. "If I were you son, I'd come back next year and the year after. Oh and yeah the prices are going up next year. Good luck and keep swinging." I think it's bad for the game and I feel bad for the game there are coaches willing to fill parents with this garbage and parents who are unwilling to learn.

I don't disagree with much of what you said. But players don't necessarily attend showcases to play pro ball. There are D1 through D3 coaches at showcases. Do you think a kid from Lubbock, Texas played at Trinity (CT) by accident?

As I stated earlier, it's up to the player and the parents to grasp reality regarding future potential. I have a kid on my travel team who thinks North Carolina is interested in him. I'm considering signing my cat up on their recruiting page to prove UNC is interested in having my cat attend their camps and showcase as well. This kid's chances of playing at UNC are slim and none. And Slim already got on his horse and left town. He could be a good D2 prospect.

We recently recruited a new player whose dad is a high school coach. When I told him the story he laughed. He said there aren't any UNC prospects on our team. He said he sees four potential D1 "possibilities" and that kid isn't one of them.