KId hits knuckle balls ?

[basesloaded04]

I have a 13 year old who hits alot of balls that dont have any spin chould someone help also ,I know its been talked about before but chould someone tell me the best drill to stop bat drag .Thanks

[virg]

There's a good thing about knucklers; it's a sign that he's hitting them on the nose. You don't want to mess with that over a little backspin. That might come when making a more necessary correction.

Make sure your "bat drag" diagnosis is correct. No fishing.

[basesloaded04]

thanks for the reply i have been aliitle worried about that as far as the bat drag goes i think thats what his problem is he plays for the middle school and plays on a travel team the thing is one coach preaches getting the bathead started first the other preaches starting the knob first and let the hands sling threw so we get a little confused , anything you can add would be a great help.Thanks

[StraightGrain11]

I agree. Knuckle balls = GOOD thing! :) Keep hitting them.

As far as hitting...
I think I would listen to the 2nd coach. "Getting the bathead started first" will often lead to "looping" [the swing]. Taking the hands - or the knob - to the ball is a better cue, as the bathead is now following the hands - which is how it should be - and taking a direct path to the ball.
If by "getting the bathead started first" he is describing something others on here refer to as "tip and rip", then that would be a little different - but he needs to be explaining it this way.

"Tip and Rip":
http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa173/xvue84/hitting%20clips/cansecofoul.gif
The motion Canseco makes with the bat towards the LH batter's box to start his swing is described as "tipping" by many on here. However, since I believe he is also "starting the bathead first" (the way YOUR coach probably means it), you will notice the bat "falls off" behind him and gets him a nice loopy swing. :)

[Mark H]

I agree with Straight and, for perhaps the first time, with Virg. Good calls.

[basesloaded04]

Thanks alot guys now we know what to work on we have a batting cage , l screen and hitting tee is there any drills to make sure hes not bat draging ,my son loves baseball and i do all i can to help but its hard for me to tell if his bat is dragging or not . again Thanks alot for your help.

[Go Cardinals]

I agree with Straight and, for perhaps the first time, with Virg. Good calls.

Mark I think everyone who has ever read a hitting thread here would know that you agree with straightgrain

[virg]

I'm on his ignore list so he seldom knows whether we agree or not

[StraightGrain11]

Thanks alot guys now we know what to work on we have a batting cage , l screen and hitting tee is there any drills to make sure hes not bat draging ,my son loves baseball and i do all i can to help but its hard for me to tell if his bat is dragging or not . again Thanks alot for your help.

Well, if your front-tossing him from behind the L-screen, it can be hard to tell, as you are trying to concentrate on getting the ball in a place where he can hit it and you have a "front-view" as opposed to, the preferred, "side-view" (best).

Common "symptoms" of bat drag are a "stiff/locked front arm", shoulders that really "fly open" and a bat that "drops off" behind the body - as opposed to "staying on top [of the ball]".

Make sure he's not "swinging up on the ball", but taking more of a "down and thru (back at the pitcher)" approach to the ball. Have him think more about using his hands to "drive the bat thru the ball" as opposed to using his body to "pull the bat into the ball". Things like that. Bat drag is fixed more "between the ears", as it has to with your approach to attacking the ball.

Not to "show up" anyone on here, but as this is a place for learning, I will use a few photos (Attached Images) from a post on here, about a week ago, of some one with a little bag drag. These should help you "diagnose" the problem (strictly focusing on the upper-half). You will notice how the hands have kind of "gotten behind the body" in comparison to the other photos (I would refer to these as "optimal hitting position(s)" - where you need to get to. Cano and Utley are demonstrating "bat LAG" - not to be confused with "bat DRAG").

http://www.baseball-fever.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=31178&stc=1&d=1194152620

[virg]

straightgrain11;
I accept your examples of lag and drag. But would you say the drag condition would produce knucklers and not slices?

basesloaded04;
is your guy slicing any?

[basesloaded04]

Im sorry ifeel kinda dumb to ask this but what would you call slices , if you mean fouling the ball off to his right because he is a right handed hitter he does do that abit but i thought he may have been dropping his back shoulder not to get off on a diffrent subject or any thing. I would like to say that my son has taken pitching and hitting lessons from 2 ex mlb players and none of them go in deph as you guys i thinkall of you guys are great and even though some may disagree with other im sure you help alot of people. thank all of you who have replyed to my post . now i will wait for your responce on the slices.

[Nater44]

That Utley shot is a great shot for this thread! Nice work posting that.

[StraightGrain11]

straightgrain11;
I accept your examples of lag and drag. But would you say the drag condition would produce knucklers and not slices?

basesloaded04;
is your guy slicing any?

You mean slices instead of knucklers? :) Most likely, yes. I'm not saying HIS player is dragging, I was just saying that the player in the exampe I showed was. I was merely giving him something to "check" his player against.

Slice: Usually the spin the ball has when it is not pulled. Most hitters - EVEN on balls hit "straight away" to center - will have/put spin on the ball in the opposite[field] direction (generally created from hitting the "inside" of the ball [good] or being "late" [bad]). Knucklers are the result of hitting the ball dead square - so he is neither inside the ball nor getting around it (as most pull hitters do).

The reason your pro instructors probably have not gone into this much depth is because hitting needs to be kept SIMPLE. :) The more complicated you get, the harder it is to learn to do. Players will begin thinking too much and run themselves right into a slump for nothing. I never talk with my players in this much detail unless they specifically ask me to. It is good to have knowledge. But the teacher must use his WISDOM as to when to increase his student's knowledge base. If you start talking "bat lag" and "compact swing" and "body tilt" with a 9 year old, it would pretty much be the equivalent of teaching square roots and logarithms in kindergarten. :crazy Keep it simple, keep it fun! :thumbsup:

[Mark H]

I'm on his ignore list so he seldom knows whether we agree or not

There's an ignore list? Where?

[Go Cardinals]

There's an ignore list? Where?

Click on someone's user name

[virg]

basesloaded
straightgrain's definition of slices is like mine. I'll take it another step for you... balls sliced to the opposite field hook to that foul line a/c spin imparted by a dragging bat... bat still pointed a bit backward at contact because the trunk outran the hands.

s-grain, I have had a few pupils open our dialog with "just tell me what to do; I don't want to know why" and had to wonder who they'd been talking to. And then there were the ones who asked Why. Maybe there's a way to see one coming?

MarkH ignored the ignore list?

[StraightGrain11]

basesloaded
straightgrain's definition of slices is like mine. I'll take it another step for you... balls sliced to the opposite field hook to that foul line a/c spin imparted by a dragging bat... bat still pointed a bit backward at contact because the trunk outran the hands.

s-grain, I have had a few pupils open our dialog with "just tell me what to do; I don't want to know why" and had to wonder who they'd been talking to. And then there were the ones who asked Why. Maybe there's a way to see one coming?

MarkH ignored the ignore list?

:shrug: I was always a "why" guy. I NEEDED to know "why" I was doing something. For me, it was easier to learn something if I understood why I was doing it. Simply doing something "because" has never felt right to me - very uncomfortable, actually (the best way I can describe the feeling might be: cliff diving at night - you can't see where you're going and you don't know whats waiting for you when you get there). If you're students are asking "why", tell them. If they couldn't handle it, they probably wouldn't ask. HOWEVER, having said that, they also might just be "testing" you to see if you really "know what you're talking about" and not care one way or the other - but now they've got the information in their heads and don't know what to do with it :noidea.
Personally, I just try and read the player. If I tell him to do something, and he does it kinda "half-hearted" (and I know he's not normally like that), THEN I go into more detail and explain to him why I'm having him do it. Once he understands, then I usually see the intensity kick back in. :)

[kylebee]

:shrug: I was always a "why" guy. I NEEDED to know "why" I was doing something. For me, it was easier to learn something if I understood why I was doing it. Simply doing something "because" has never felt right to me

Amen. Your posts have been quite informative as of late.

[basesloaded04]

ok guys i know what you mean by sliceing now and no the balls he hits dont usally slice , id say half the balls he hit just look like knuckle balls for some reason he hits the ball prety hard and he dont strike out much but the last practice he started missing alot of pitches the coach said he was bat dragging so i figured the knuckle balls and the back dragging was connected.

[virg]

He's good, and the coach worries out loud.

A funny BP might only mean the pitching was off. Or he might have been trying to place-hit and didn't say. I hope he can resist a coaches planted suggestion and I suspect he can. Don't saddle him with the worrying.

[Mark H]

MarkH ignored the ignore list?

I guess. lol

[basesloaded04]

hey mark h have you ever thought about working with some kids on hitting ,sounds like you would be a good one .ill give you my email if your intrested!

[Mark H]

Work with one college team and a few friends but I will refer you to my mentor who is way better than me. Been through most of them and finally settled on this guy.

mark_h45@hotmail.com

[basesloaded04]

hey mark sent you an email hope you got it