1969 Rookie Draft

[leecemark]

--The rookie draft is now open. There will be no clock until June 6th so you've got plenty of time to think things over, make deals, etc. If there is an error in any of the traded picks please point it out as soon as possible. Errors not corrected before that pick is made won't be corrected nor compensation made. The player picked would simply move to the true owner of that slot.
--Remember that the deadline for non-tenders/buy outs is your first selection in this draft. Once you make a pick you are committed to all the players still on your roster. The live portion of the draft is still scheduled for 8PM EST, June 6th. If we've managed to get through 2 rounds then you can all have your Friday night back and we'll just go on an 8 hour clock at that point.
--All players who made their major league debut in 1969 are eligible for this draft. If you haven't already done some scouting then now is the time to get on that.
--Expansion owners if you want to use your franchise tag on your first pick in this draft you need to do so before the end of the draft.


Round 1
1m or 12m depending on franchise tag choice
1) Thunder: Thurman Munson (franchise player)
2) Wranglers: Carlton Fisk (franchise player)
3) Brawlers: Vida Blue
4) Appletonia : Darrell Evans (franchise player)
750K
5) Angels from Gamblers: Bernie Carbo
6) Diablos: Dave Cash
7) Badgers: Gene Tenace
8) Knights from Angels: Dave Roberts
500K
9) Hard Cider form Shoeless Joes: Ron Bloomberg
10) Thunder from Redbirds: Dick Drago
11) Cloverleafs : Jerry Ruess
12) Knights from Skipjacks : Toby Harrah
All players from here down are 250K
13) Gamblers from Knights: Gary Gentry
14) Cloverleafs from Hard Cider: Steve Garvey
15) Hard Cider from Gold Sox: Wayne Garrett
16) Hard Cider from Legends: Tom Bradley


Round 2
17) Cloverleafs from Thunder: Chuck Taylor
18) Wranglers: Bill Buckner
19) Brawlers: Clay Kirby
20) Appletonia: Bill Lee
21) Gamblers: Ken Tatum
22) Skipjacks from Diablos: Barry Lersh
23) Brawlers from Badgers: Carl Morton
24) Angels: Ted Sixemore
25) Appletonia from Shoeless Joes: Pedro Borbon
26) Redbirds: BIll Russell
27) Hard Cider from Cloverleafs: Bob Johnson
28) Appletonia from Skipjacks: Oscar Gamble
29) Knights: Ron Klimkowski
30) Hard Cider: Billy Grabarkowitz
31) Redbirds from Gold Sox: Steve Renko
32) Skipjacks from Legends: Reggie Cleveland

2a
33) Redbirds (compensation pick): Tom Griffin

Round 3
34) Knights from Thunder: Lloyd Allen
35) Wranglers: George Foster
36) Badgers from Brawlers: Gene Garber
37) Appletonia: Fred Kendall
38) Legends from Gamblers: John Ellis
39) Diablos: Al Fitzmorris
40) Badgers: Billy Conigliaro
41) Appletonia from Angels: Dick Woodson
42) Hard Cider from Shoeless Joes: Jim Colborn
43) Redbirds: Tom Timmerman
44) Cloverleafs: Mike Kilkenny
45) Skipjacks: Fred Scherman
46) Knights: Bart Johnson
47) Angels from Hard Cider: Ike Brown
48) Shoeless Joes from Gold Sox: Marty Perez
49) Hard Cider from Legends: Leron Lee

Round 4
50) Thunder: Jack DiLauro
51) Wranglers: Bill Butler
52) Cloverleafs from Brawlers (via Badgers): Coco Laboy
53) Appletonia: Mike Garman
54) Gamblers: Mike Nagy
55) Diablos: Make up due
56) Badgers: Bob Didier
57) Legends from Angels: Bob Reynolds
58) Shoeless Joes: Fran Healy
59) Redbirds: Paul Doyle
60) Cloverleafs: Lou Marone
61) Skipjacks: Paul Edmuindson
62) Knights: Bill Zepp
63) Hard Cider: Rick Lamb
64) Angels from Gold Sox: Ron Woods
65) Legends: Jerry Morales

Round 5
66) Thunder: Sid O'Brien
67) Wranglers: Cesar geronimo
68) Badgers from Brawlers: Jerry Robertson
69) Appletonia: Billy Wilson
70) Gamblers: Steve Arlin
71) Diablos: 2nd makeup due
72) Badgers: Bill Burbach
73) Angels: Steve Hovley
74) Shoeless Joes: Joe Decker
75) Redbirds: Phil Hennigan
76) Cloverleafs: Mike Wegener
77) Skipjacks: Marcel Lachman
78) Knights: Jim Lyttle
79) Hard Cider: Billy Brooks
80) Gold Sox: Scipio Spinks
81) Legends: Tom Hilgendorff

6th round
82) Thunder: Jerry Cram
83) Wranglers: Gary Neibauer
84) Gold Sox from Brawlers: Van Kelly
--Thats all folks

[jkc32]

Looks like I'm going to be a spectator for quite awhile. Sure hope no one takes the guy I'm looking at for pick #47!:D

[Erik Bedard]

If my guy falls to #72, I'll be absolutely thrilled. Of course, I didn't see him falling to #9, so I traded it for a pick in a better year.

[Sockeye]

If the player we want isn't available at the 5th pick, we may consider trading down. Something to keep in mind for someone interested in trading up at that time.

[Windy City Fan]

The Windy City Thunder draft .... Thurmon Munson!

And he will be tagged as the franchise player.

[Erik Bedard]

Definitely not who I would've picked there, but there is an argument for him.

[leecemark]

--Munson wouldn't have been my pick for the Knights, but he may have been if I was an expansion owner. One of the better catchers in the league from year 2 right up to the end. There are a few players who deliver more over the course of their careers, but in every case you'd be paying 12M for some developmental, injury or just plain bad years mixed in with the good ones.

[Erik Bedard]

I wouldn't even consider him for the Gold Sox, what with a youngster named Bench who's taken over the catching spot. But that's the argument for him, and it's a fairly good one. He may be the best franchise player available this year when factoring in position (without that I'd take one other guy ahead of him as an expansion team).

[catcher24]

--All players who made their major league debut in 1968 are eligible for this draft.

I think Mark meant 1969.:p

Mark, you may wish to edit your list to reflect that since our trade, the Hard Cider will have my first and third round picks this year. Since Mark has my 2nd rounder, it looks like the only pick I'll get out of the top 32 is the Gamblers 2nd rounder, which I have.

The Munson pick was a good one, but it wouldn't have been my top pick. Different perspective.

[BlueBlood]

Munson was a great pick if you're an expansion team and applying the franchise player. Meaty bat in an offensively weak position. Only other options here were to pay 12 million for pitching right off the bat which is absolutely crazy. If they play '69-75 you could get them for virtually nothing, six great seasons. You could then probably grab the same pitcher later for a little more but it would still be less than 12 million a year on average for a guy that works 1 out of 4 days, if that.

I think I know what the next two picks are going to be. One has a monster year but doesn't really play for the upcoming two, so they'd be absolutely worthless to apply a franchise tag towards but could really amp up any team in that season and pull off big playoff wins. The other is a consistently great pitcher for the next six years at least. I really doubt I'll be using my franchise tag, to be honest. It's a lot to pay for pitching. After six years, I could run out and buy someone else with a bigger year for a little more money, if not the same in some cases. Munson was the pick I was really worried about. If he were still around when my turn came, I'd have honestly spent at least a week sitting here trying to figure out what to do.

[leecemark]

--Honestly I'm not sure that the franchise tag is a great deal for anybody in this draft. There are several people who its reasonable for, but the have to be good for a really long time to pay you back for the overpay up front. If you keep the guy for the 6 cheap years until free agency you get a 20% advantage on resigning him as a free agent anyway. Unless the guy is going to be worth alot more than 12M (and if you look at the FA auctions you'll see the biggest stars getting 20 or more) then its tough to make your money back. OTOH you all have a huge amount of cap space and you can only sign so many free agents..... KW must be weighing these issues now:lookitup:confused::shrug:

[catcher24]

--Honestly I'm not sure that the franchise tag is a great deal for anybody in this draft. There are several people who its reasonable for, but the have to be good for a really long time to pay you back for the overpay up front. If you keep the guy for the 6 cheap years until free agency you get a 20% advantage on resigning him as a free agent anyway. Unless the guy is going to be worth alot more than 12M (and if you look at the FA auctions you'll see the biggest stars getting 20 or more) then its tough to make your money back. OTOH you all have a huge amount of cap space and you can only sign so many free agents..... KW must be weighing these issues now:lookitup:confused::shrug:

Mark makes a very valid point here. If the player has a huge upside and a 15 to 20 year career, it would most certainly be worth applying the franchise tag. In the first six years, if the franchise tag is not used, you'd be paying the player only 13.5M for the entire six years. If the franchise tag is used, you're paying the same guy 72M over the six years, or 58.5M extra $$$. If you don't apply the tag, the player becomes a free agent, but you do get a 20% advantage to resign. You bid 20M for his next five years, meaning anyone else has to bid 24M at least (unlikely, but not unheard of). Using the dollars you've saved, the extra 8M per season that this player will cost you now ABOVE what he would've cost as a FP, times the five seasons you resign him for, is only 40M, meaning you're still 18.5M ahead after 11 seasons, and at this point most players will start to decline (although not so much now as back in the 70s).

If this were real life applying the FP tag would almost certainly be a mistake, because you could use those extra $$$ over the eleven years to invest in various ways. However, the long term picture is sort of ignored in the CKL, as you have to worry only about your cap from year to year. Applying the FP tag will hit your cap more the first six years, but save you cap space thereafter for likely as long as you keep the FP. And as expansion teams, you guys have the extra cap space up front, so were I in your shoes I would probably use it. But that's a determination each will have to make for themselves.

[Hack_Miller]

--Honestly I'm not sure that the franchise tag is a great deal for anybody in this draft. There are several people who its reasonable for, but the have to be good for a really long time to pay you back for the overpay up front. If you keep the guy for the 6 cheap years until free agency you get a 20% advantage on resigning him as a free agent anyway. Unless the guy is going to be worth alot more than 12M (and if you look at the FA auctions you'll see the biggest stars getting 20 or more) then its tough to make your money back. OTOH you all have a huge amount of cap space and you can only sign so many free agents..... KW must be weighing these issues now:lookitup:confused::shrug:

I'm so weighing those issues....:shrug:


Here's my analysis of the econmics of the Munson pick. You guys please double check my math and make sure I'm getting this right.
Basically to tag a guy you will overpay him to the tune of 64.5 M during his first six years under team control. Munson plays exactly five seasons after this 6th year before his tragic death. Even if he would have fetched 22-24 M on the free agent market, you still only get back 50-60 M of that original 64.5 M.

Never mind Lew answered the question in the previous post much clearer than my rambling....didn't see it until after I submitted my post....

[leecemark]

--The difference is you are overpaying the player in the years when you don't expect to compete (or the first couple of them anyway) and saving significant cap space later - when you can use it to pick up whatever pieces you need to complete your contendng teams. I'd say overpaying for years 1-2/3 are worth it for the savings in years 7-?. The years when you might regret it are 3/4-6 when having a cheap star could allow you to sign somebody else. It all depends on the player and how long you want to make sure you can keep him. Several guys from this draft are likely to fetch 20M deals when/if they hit the market in 6 years.

[Sockeye]

Mark makes a good point. IMO it's better to invest and overpay for a player in non-contending years only to have a bargain in the contending years when it could make a difference in a championship team. There are still at least 3 - 4 players who I could see bringing in 20-25 mill per season on the free agent market over the course of the next two free agent cycles. That is seasons 7-11 and 12-16. Thus making them worth the franchise player tag. The secret for the expansion teams is finding those 3 or 4 players who are still producing 15 seasons from now.

[Windy City Fan]

Munson gives me a solid and consistent bat from a nortoriously hard spot to get any offense and he doesn't compromise me on defense. I seriously considered Fisk, but he has too many seasons where he missed time to injury or just flat out didn't produce at the level of a franchise player.

[catcher24]

Mark makes a good point. IMO it's better to invest and overpay for a player in non-contending years only to have a bargain in the contending years when it could make a difference in a championship team. There are still at least 3 - 4 players who I could see bringing in 20-25 mill per season on the free agent market over the course of the next two free agent cycles. That is seasons 7-11 and 12-16. Thus making them worth the franchise player tag. The secret for the expansion teams is finding those 3 or 4 players who are still producing 15 seasons from now.

I touched on this in my reply as well. I think to make the FP worthwhile, it has to be a player who is still putting up very decent numbers in their first FA cycle (years 7-11) so the owner will want to keep them. Someone putting up very good numbers in the second cycle (years 12-16) is even more valuable, because if they would bring even 16M on the free agent market, they continue to save you cap space. Of course, the higher the contract they might bring, the more cap space they save you in later years. So the ideal FP is one who puts up very good to excellent numbers for at least a dozen years. Someone who does it from a tough to fill spot offensively (catcher, SS and 2B come to mind) is even more valuable. I expect Joe Morgan to bring 22M+ when he hits free agency in four years, so if he were a FP (which he can't be) that would be a savings of 10M per year for five years on cap space. A player in that mold would be an excellent FP.

[BlueBlood]

The problem is that expansion owners only had '69's draft to apply the FP tag, need to apply it right away, and the field includes very few, if any, that could potentially be worth the money. I do see the point being raised about how overpaying now for a player that would easily pull $20M later makes financial sense but this draft just doesn't have those sort of players.

[leecemark]

--If you think none of the 69 rookies will get that kind of money I suggest you review some of the past free agent auctions. If Dave McNally can get 20M+ I think at least one pitcher in this draft will. We haven't had an elite catcher up for auction before, but I'd venture to say that such a creature exists in this draft (perhaps thrice). There is one other player who I would not be surprised to see get such a contract based on a scarcity of talent at his position over the next decade.
--I think the franchise options are at least as good in 69 as they were for the 64 expansion teams. I can see the case for not exercising that option though. The other thing you have going for you is you may be able to tie up your second franchise player next year (though you wouldn't have to pay the 12M until his 4th season) and have a pair of guys to build around together for a long time.

[BlueBlood]

Oh, there's definitely big money to be had out of some of these, but I just don't think there's any players that can really be worth the $12 million each season. There's no telling what team will need who and when, obviously. That's the fun of this game.

But certainly, there are some monster seasons out of this lot. If Vida's 71 were his seventh season and he was on the free agent market, I think he'd top $30 million. And that's a pitcher. Biggest question for everyone is whether you go for the guy that gives you six great, dirt-cheap seasons or someone that has a few for the ages and doesn't play in half of the six.

[The Dude]

From my perspective, I think there's 6-8 franchise players worthy. I don't go as in depth on the fiscal end. To me, it's relatively simple. Take Vida Blue. Sure, you franchise him for 12m a year, and you get 2 useless seasons in 69-70, a medicore 72, an all-time season in 71, and two quality seasons in 73-74.

Lets say that if you FP Blue, you let him go after 1982. I would ... You've paid him 168 million.

Now let's look at Vida if we don't franchise him out (thinking he was your first overall pick this draft).
69-1m
70-1m
71-1m
72-2m
73-2.25m
74-2.5m
75-22m
76-22m
77-22m
78-22m
79-22m
80-14m
81-14m
82-14m
83-14m
84-14m

Now, his 76 and 78 campaigns are likely league leading campaigns, followed by a good 75, an alright 77, and a horrid 79. However, you're still gonna be paying him say, 22 million for these 5 years, whoever gets him. 1980 is good enough that you're gonna be stuck paying for him for 5 years at around 14m.

That brings you to 180m total that you've spent on Blue's career, and granted, I think my numbers were conservative...

[BlueBlood]

However, you're still gonna be paying him say, 22 million for these 5 years, whoever gets him. 1980 is good enough that you're gonna be stuck paying for him for 5 years at around 14m.

I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure that the winner of the free agent auction has the player for 3, 4 or 5 years depending on what they choose. Theoretically, you could avoid some of the inferior years on the back end of a 5-year contract by only paying for the first three. This means Vida could be much cheaper than your estimates if people are doing a three year, followed by a relatively cheap contract that includes some mediocre years, etc.

I don't think any of us have written about trade bait. You could always de-franchise one of these players at the right moment and make an absolute killing. Who wouldn't give up an arm and a leg for a pitcher having a career year for only $12 million?

[The Dude]

I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure that the winner of the free agent auction has the player for 3, 4 or 5 years depending on what they choose.

Very true sir, I had forgotten. However, I did fail to mention something I think about a lot now with my pick coming up soon in the draft ... the idea of forcing prices up higher. Example with Vida Blue again. Say you FP him, that takes one high quality pitcher off the free agent market 6 years from now, thus driving up the prices of other quality pitchers in Free Agent market in said year. You can thus possibley cripple one team fiscally for at least 3 seasons. Granted ... some might consider this dirty ball, but if it's logically in the best interest of your team ...

[mac195]

My estimate of Blue's career salary prospects without the FP designation:

69-1m
70-1m
71-1.25m
72-2.5m
73-2.75m
74-3m
75-24m
76-24m
77-24m
78-24m
79-8m
80-8m
81-8m
82-8m
83----
85----
86- 1M

Total - $142.5M

[J W]

If it would cost a bit more to franchise a player than the FA projections, um... project to, I would slap the tag on him. There is NO guarantee that you'll keep a player past six seasons with your draft-rights offer. When Gaylord Perry's $25 mil offer was topped I was flabbergasted. So if someone wants to go 27.5 mil, why not a cool 30 mil?

Point is, you'll have someone to count on for a good number of seasons, with no salary increase and no threat of leaving.

[-Kyle-]

I was surprised too...but if he can bite the bullet, its his cap.

[Hack_Miller]

After much deliberation and not without some reservations still, the Wranglers have decided to select .....
C-Carlton Fisk.

I will also exercise our option to tag him as the franchise player. I have made the case with myself for at least 3 other players to take at this pick and they all have their pros and cons.

Hopefully he will eventually outlive the 54.5M I will overpay for his first 6 seasons.

[Erik Bedard]

Neither Munson nor Fisk was my top catcher on the Gold Sox list (granted, not the best for an expansion team). And the guy I had ahead of them wasn't in my top two.

[The Dude]

Great pick with Fisk. Granted, his offense isn't great every year, but think about it, from 1972-1991, you only have one season where you have to look for a starting catcher. Also, you may overpay him for 69-71, but you will be underpaying him for 75-78, and a streak of great seasons in the early 80's.

HM, I understand your long deliberation ... there's a good number of guys worth franchising out for the expansion teams to pick from (IMHO), yet each one has a number of pros and cons. However, the draft is going how I expected it to so far..

[BlueBlood]

Point is, you'll have someone to count on for a good number of seasons, with no salary increase and no threat of leaving.

And no need to waste draft picks trying to fill up said position. I hear you. An extra $10/20 million for a player that performs consistently well is certainly worthwhile in order to save time, stress, etc.

Oh, guess it's my pick. I can either make a run for it or sell him big when need be. P - Vida Blue

[leecemark]

--So who gets your franchise tag. Wil?
--Garry, I am still interested in the 5th pick if your guy is gone. My offer will be slightly less with Blue out of the picture though.

[The Dude]

With the 4th pick in the 1969 Rookie Draft, Athletic Club Appletonia selects the left handed 3rd Basemen from Pasadena, California,

http://detroit-tigers-baseball-history.com/images/Darrell-Evans.jpg
Darrell "Franchise" Evans

*PS, if you didn't get the nickname, we're franchising him :D

[BlueBlood]

Great pickup.

Oh, and I'm foregoing the franchise tag. Blue has too many non-seasons, rough seasons, etc. for $12M per year to prove valuable.

[Sockeye]

With the 5th pick in the '69 draft Sockeye's Angels select........Bernie Carbo!

[-Kyle-]

I am willing to trade down (from 8th or 13th) to a very low 1st rounder and a 2nd rounder or 2 high second rounders. PM me ASAP

[leecemark]

--Had your heart set on Carbo did you:D? That was a shocker for me. I had him on my 2nd round wish list.

[Erik Bedard]

Dang, I should've kept my pick. My #1 target (different from my draft board in that these are guys who I think could realistically be on my team) is definitely going to last to #10.

[Sockeye]

--Had your heart set on Carbo did you:D? That was a shocker for me. I had him on my 2nd round wish list.

Might come as more of a shock to you that your #1 player was the same as ours. :D Carbo was 2nd on our draft card. He's exactly what we were looking for in a player. Top of the order hitter that gives us five very useful seasons from 70-74 including a great '70 season when we will be looking to make a serious title run.

[BlueBlood]

Might come as more of a shock to you that your #1 player was the same as ours.

Vida, right? That '71 is just flat out massive. Chuck him into a solid rotation with a respectable offense and it could spell trouble for the other 15 owners.

[J W]

Trade:

The Skipjacks have sent their 12th overall pick to the Knights for the rights to the 22nd overall pick (via the Diablos) and the 32nd overall pick (via the Legends).

Mark, if you would confirm, thanks...

[leecemark]

--Confirmed. This takes some of the incentive off a few other deals I've been discussing. If I've been negotiating with you on a deal involving picks please check back with me if you're still interested. The offer may or may not still be open. If I haven't been talking to you and you pick between now and the 12th pick I may be interested in trading up. If you're interested in trading down let me know.

[buppers]

Probably won't be making pick till tomorrow morning, Thursday, If its my turn by then. Anybody interested in trading for #7 pick?

Looking for a pick later in 1st round and pick in 1970 or players now.

Will check in tonight and get back to you tomorrow morning

Ed

[catcher24]

Hadn't been able to check in for a couple of days. Interesting picks. Evans would likely have been my top pick were I an expansion owner- either him or Fisk. Both lock up a position for a long, long time. And both are excellent defenders with a good amount of pop in their bats. Carbo has a great run and is a decent pick, but he was lower on my list. Of course, priorities matter, and mine are different than Garry's at this point.

[buppers]

I want to thank all who replied to my offer to trade the 7th pick.

None of the offers really help me long term so I will pass and take my chances in the draft.

Ed

[mac195]

Looks like we're stuck. EH hasn't even checked in here in a week and a half.

[-Kyle-]

Can anyone email him?

[leecemark]

--I have tried to contact him without success. Even though we aren't actually on the clock for the draft now, it is a problem for an owner to not check in at BBF for such an extended period (last log in May 18). If any of you are going to be unavailable for more than a few days I would appreciate it if you could let me know so I can deal with situations such as this.
--The Diablos select secondbaseman Dave Cash. Jope he works for you, JIm.
--You can go ahead and pick now, ED.

[buppers]

Badgers take Gene Tenace

[leecemark]

--The Knights exercise their trade up option with the Angels and select LHP Dave Roberts.

[Erik Bedard]

Badgers take Gene Tenace

Given my catching situation (Bench's contract expires after '72, Tenace is great in '73 and '74 but a backup before), he was my #1 catcher. Roberts was my #2 pitcher. Four solid years, including one great one.

[leecemark]

--Tenace was a great pick. Very good back up for 3 year, good starter for 2 and then a strong re-sign value. He would have been a solid franchise choice IMO.
--Roberts was the guy I really wanted. He may give more in the 6 years under club control than Blue, although he doesn't offer nearly as much for his HTD years. Still one real premium play left on my draft board - a guy I would have used the franchise tag on had I been an expansion owner (one of 5 such players IMO).

[mac195]

We're going to take a guy who has zero value as a franchise player, but will be a big, cheap, left-handed bat in the middle of our lineups '71-'74.

http://www.kjmpromotions.com/Images/blomberg2.jpg

The "Designated Hebrew" - Ron Blomberg

http://ronblomberg.com/merch_tshirt_lg.htm

[buppers]

Bloomberg great bat in 71-74
RC/27 outs ranging from 6.2 to 7.6
I was looking at him but lots of OF and not many Catchers

[Sockeye]

Badgers take Gene Tenace

Nice pick on Tenace. He was 3rd on our draftboard and the guy we would have chosen if we were able to move up.

[buppers]

Nice pick on Tenace. He was 3rd on our draftboard and the guy we would have chosen if we were able to move up.

He could still be yours:nod::D

You know where to reach me.

[Sockeye]

--The Knights exercise their trade up option with the Angels and select LHP Dave Roberts.

*sigh of relief* I can use that 2nd rd pick and will put it to good use!

[Windy City Fan]

Dick Drago

[jterry619]

Nice pick..other than the fact that he was the guy on my radar...my pick coming soon.

[jterry619]

..always opt for pitching;

Jerry Reuss

[-Kyle-]

When the knights come back I am ready pick. Also ready to move down for another pick (low 2nd and a low first (or high second) for my 13th pick).

[jterry619]

...the Leafs are willing to move a pick, trade up, trade down, trade sideways....we have these picks:

11th

14th

17th

27th

I am open to suggestions if I can get a catcher (doesn't have to be a long-time star but not looking for a bullpen catcher either) and/or a third baseman.....I already have two of those.....open to offers....I have a lot of SP as well and I would love to shed some salary.

Joe / Birmingham Cloverleafs

[leecemark]

We're going to take a guy who has zero value as a franchise player, but will be a big, cheap, left-handed bat in the middle of our lineups '71-'74.

http://www.kjmpromotions.com/Images/blomberg2.jpg

The "Designated Hebrew" - Ron Blomberg

http://ronblomberg.com/merch_tshirt_lg.htm

--Bloomberg may be the best hitter in this draft. You have to wonder why he didn't get more chance to play. That lack of playing time really lowered his value for me though. He is strictly a part timer even in his best seasons.

[leecemark]

--I'll get my pick up shortly. I intended to take another pitcher, but a player I didn't expect to slip this far did and I need to reevaluate. Anybody who is online and wants to make an offer for this pick, I'm willing to trade down. Not very far down, but down.

[leecemark]

--Oh well, I'm going to go ahead and shift my plans. The Knights take SS Toby Harrah. Harrah is the best offensive SS of the 70s and one fo the 5 players I would have been willing to franchise if I'd had the opportunity. Or maybe my scouts had just been hitting the bottle a little too hard when they were checking him out:shrug:.
--I'd still like to get a pitcher out of this draft and would be willing to trade by 1971 first rounder for a late first rounder in this draft or maybe even an early 2nd rounder.

[leecemark]

--The Gamblers select RHP Gary Gentry.

[leecemark]

--The Knights trade 1B/OF Rich Reese to the Thunder for their 3rd round pick in this draft. WCF please confirm.

[Erik Bedard]

I was talking to Kyle about Gentry. My #1 target going into the draft. My scouts think he can give a team one very good year and two solid ones, plus two more where he can be part of a major-league roster.

[leecemark]

--Gentry is definately is most major league ready pitcher in the draft. He can contribute right out of the gate and gives his best 3 years (all a little above average with a good number of innings) in the first 3. He was 4th on my list, after Blue, Roberts and Drago.

[Erik Bedard]

He was my #3, after Blue and Roberts (who I assumed would be gone early). But I'm trying out a new, and somewhat unconventional scouting method (that involves throwing out ERA+ completely), which may not be accurate. Applying it to past results, though, indicates that it'll work. Plus, Gentry just had a 2.67 ERA in one of my DM Online leagues, fourth in the league (standard era) behind Greg Maddux, Cy Young, and Jose Mendez (he was actually leading the league up until September with an ERA around 1.60). If I had gotten him, I would have had no qualms about making him my ace for this season.

[Sockeye]

--Bloomberg may be the best hitter in this draft. You have to wonder why he didn't get more chance to play. That lack of playing time really lowered his value for me though. He is strictly a part timer even in his best seasons.

Bloomberg was someone I thought I'd have a legit shot at taking with my 2nd rd pick. He's a very good hitter and puts up 4 productive seasons from 71-74. Was surprised he went so early though due to his overall lack of playing time.

[mac195]

...the Leafs are willing to move a pick, trade up, trade down, trade sideways....we have these picks:

11th

14th

17th

27th

I am open to suggestions if I can get a catcher (doesn't have to be a long-time star but not looking for a bullpen catcher either) and/or a third baseman.....I already have two of those.....open to offers....I have a lot of SP as well and I would love to shed some salary.

Joe / Birmingham Cloverleafs
That 27th pick is the one you traded to me in the Osteen deal, isn't it?

[Sockeye]

--Gentry is definately is most major league ready pitcher in the draft. He can contribute right out of the gate and gives his best 3 years (all a little above average with a good number of innings) in the first 3. He was 4th on my list, after Blue, Roberts and Drago.

I had Gentry #2 on my pitchers list behind only Blue. He gives 4 very productive seasons from 69-71, 73. I thought for sure he was the player you would be taking with the #8 pick or the fact that he puts up 3 good seasons right from the start.

[leecemark]

--If I needed a pitcher for this year then Gentry would have been higher on my draft list. As it is he would have been only a marginal improvement over what I have now, on a par with Roberts next year (when I did need at least one more starter) and not in the same ballpark in 71. 1971 is the last good year for several of my long time stars (notably Mays and Marichal) and the last year under team control for several more. I was pretty set on taking someone who could help with that one last run before I probably have to go into rebuild mode.

[-Kyle-]

Thanks!!! I am home and can make my own picks now (4th round baby).

[BlueBlood]

Thunder sure came up big....Munson and Drago, two of my top three picks. Can't believe Drago lasted so long, would not be a poor franchise option either.

[mac195]

Drago a franchise player? How do you figure that?

[BlueBlood]

Oh my bad. I was only looking for those that had a lot of value on the Six Year Plan...so I totally didn't notice that Drago was worthless afterwards.

[leecemark]

--Drago gives alot of decent innings for all 6 years and that really helps a team. His best year he is maybe a #3 starter on a contending team though. He is never a big star.
--Coming in I had Munson, Fisk, Tenace, Blue, Harrah and Evans (in that order) as the best franchise options. Cash, Roberts, Drago, Gentry and one player not yet picked arounded top guys for best value over the 6 controlled years. Carbo, Reuss and Bloomberg were all surprise first rounders for me.

[Windy City Fan]

--The Knights trade 1B/OF Rich Reese to the Thunder for their 3rd round pick in this draft. WCF please confirm.

Confirmed!

[catcher24]

--Drago gives alot of decent innings for all 6 years and that really helps a team. His best year he is maybe a #3 starter on a contending team though. He is never a big star.
--Coming in I had Munson, Fisk, Tenace, Blue, Harrah and Evans (in that order) as the best franchise options. Cash, Roberts, Drago, Gentry and one player not yet picked arounded top guys for best value over the 6 controlled years. Carbo, Reuss and Bloomberg were all surprise first rounders for me.

Agree on Drago, but his consistency is the best of any pitcher over the six years , including Blue, who really doesn't provide much in the line of innings until year 3 (1971) - but it's certainly huge, a pitching season for the ages. The players you mention are all good choices for franchise players, but only because this is the CKL, where cap space each year is more important than overall dollar cost of the contract - an issue we've discussed before. And I'm quite surprised that the man I believe Mark is thinking of hasn't been picked yet. Maybe it's the weak first part of his career.

[leecemark]

--We definately aren't thinking of the same guy then. The player I had in mind is a regular right out of the gate, just never much above average. Much like the position version of Drago. I think I may know who you're thinking of though. Part timer and not particularly good til his 6th season, but really takes off then.

[jterry619]

..and select Steve Garvey...one of my all time least favorite players with the 14th pick

[catcher24]

Joe took the guy I was thinking of. First three seasons weak, then two slightly above average seasons as a part timer, then runs off seven seasons with at least a 121 OPS+ (over 130 five of those years) and an every day player, actually only missing eight games over the entire seven years.

This guy would be a prime example of a good player to make your FP post-1970 rule, when you don't have to make the designation until after the third season. He'd be cheap his first three seasons, when he's below average, but then only cost 12M per season over the next eight years, when he hits his prime. No really huge seasons, but well above league average for six of those eight years. Probably a 15 to 20M man on the FA marker. Perhaps the good years are a tad too short to make him a FP even post-1970, but he would have to be considered.

[mac195]

Arrrgh... I've never had so tough a time deciding about draft picks...

Sorry, it's really late here. I'm going to wait and make these picks in the morning (Japan time.)

[-Kyle-]

Arrrgh... I've never had so tough a time deciding about draft picks...

Sorry, it's really late here. I'm going to wait and make these picks in the morning (Japan time.)

!?!?! I had no idea you lived in Japan. My half japanese friend went back to Japan over April Vacation. It sounded so awesome. :waving

[Erik Bedard]

Two guys left who I would think would be great options to franchise. One's a decent pick for six years as well.

[catcher24]

Well, only six more picks to go and then I get to make one. I certainly hope one of the two guys I'm hoping to fall to me make it, but I rather doubt it. In fact, I can almost see Mac grabbing both of them!

Then seventeen more until I get another pick.:( Won't be many left by then, but there will be someone with at least one or two serviceable seasons for sure.:)

[leecemark]

--14 picks before my next one. I seriously doubt one of the guys I want will be there, so I'd still like to trade up.

[Erik Bedard]

Only 58 to go!

Seriously, I highly doubt I'll get anybody at all out of this draft.

[catcher24]

Wow, you're worse off than me, Dan!:hp At least I'll get 2 out of the first 38 picks. You could be right in thinking that you won't get anyone out of this draft.

[jkc32]

Only 58 to go!

Seriously, I highly doubt I'll get anybody at all out of this draft.

I'm in nearly the same situation pick wise. I've done almost no analysis, just deleting players from my spreadsheet as they are taken. When we get around pick 45, I'll perk up and start reviewing the "studs" available.

[Erik Bedard]

Same exact plan here. Only I'll wait until around pick #60.

[-Kyle-]

Yeah, waiting tentativly until the 4th round. :D

Losing the 2nd and 3rd rounders got me Shamsky and Green, so it was worth it.

[mac195]

Two guys left who I would think would be great options to franchise.
Yes, but only the expansion owners have that option this year. The rest of us have to wait util the '70 draft to pick another player as a franchise.


One's a decent pick for six years as well.
... execpt he's not very good. I hate picking guys who are consistantly mediocre.

[Erik Bedard]

"Would have been" would have been a more accurate representation of my opinion.

And I'm definitely not thinking of a consistently mediocre guy.

[mac195]

I could probably dither over this for another week but... Wayne Garrett and Tom Bradley.

[catcher24]

Losing the 2nd and 3rd rounders got me Shamsky and Green, so it was worth it.

And a good thing it was that I made that trade with you, Kyle, since those are the only two picks I have until #57, the fourth rounder I got from the Angels! I don't remember ever trading my top three picks before.

[jterry619]

Unorthodox but what the hell:

Chuck Taylor

[mac195]

He gives you three good bullpen years with quite a few innings. I was hoping he'd slide down to my next pick.

[Sockeye]

I like the Taylor pick. Had him as the 7th best pitcher overall in the draft and 4th best pitcher remaining. He gives three solid seasons and his 3rd best season is better than any other remaining pitchers 3rd best season. Should be a very useful pick for you.

[BlueBlood]

Really starting to think I should've went with Evans. Fills a key hole at 3B and was 100% worth the franchise player tag. Nice pickup, Dude.

[Hack_Miller]

The Wranglers will select Bill Buckner.

[-Kyle-]

If the player I want is still there, I will trade my 1970 1st round pick and 3rd round for that pick and someone's 2nd next year.

[BlueBlood]

The Brawlers select young gun Clay Kirby in order to strengthen their starting staff.

Wowsers. Owners sure have sold their souls to the Knights. No wonder they stay competitive.

[catcher24]

Unorthodox but what the hell:

Chuck Taylor

A very good pick IMHO, Joe. He has two really good years right off, and has two more pretty good years while under six year control.

[Erik Bedard]

Wowsers. Owners sure have sold their souls to the Knights. No wonder they stay competitive.

I think the Legends and Angels are proud co-owners of my soul.

[-Kyle-]

If you think the Knights own a lot...I think Legends had at least 1/3 of the picks in 1967.

[BlueBlood]

If you think the Knights own a lot...I think Legends had at least 1/3 of the picks in 1967.

Well, maybe people have learned from their mistakes now? Or maybe they enjoyed putting on some great runs by selling off draft picks and will continue to do this? Interesting because there are different measures of success in this game for all of us.

[Sockeye]

Well, maybe people have learned from their mistakes now? Or maybe they enjoyed putting on some great runs by selling off draft picks and will continue to do this? Interesting because there are different measures of success in this game for all of us.

Different things work for different owners. Certain teams will continue to stock pile draft picks and others will continue to deal them to always keep their team in contention. No real right or wrong way. Just depends on what works. I'm more of the stockpiler myself. I want my team to be set up a certain way and believe the best way to do that is draft the players myself.

[jterry619]

I thought the Leafs owned this pick but there is some question about that...can anyone document this for me?

[mac195]

I thought the Leafs owned this pick but there is some question about that...can anyone document this for me?
This pick was traded to me in the Osteen deal. You got my 1st round pick, I got Osteen and your 2nd.

[jterry619]

This pick was traded to me in the Osteen deal. You got my 1st round pick, I got Osteen and your 2nd.


Just saw it as I posted...thanks!

[The Dude]

I will make my pick in the next half hour or 45 minutes. I just got back from home a few minutes ago, so I gotta quick update some stuff.

[The Dude]

With the 20th Overall Pick in the 1969 CKL rookie draft, the Athletic Club of Appletonia selects:

http://www.mikeyadams.com/tx_spaceman.jpg
Bill "Spaceman" Lee

[mac195]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bs2NNUCDzis

[leecemark]

The Brawlers select young gun Clay Kirby in order to strengthen their starting staff.

.


--Kirby was an excellent pick. He eats innings for your first 2 seasons and will be a nice #2 behind Blue when you should be ready to make a run in 1971.

[BlueBlood]

--Kirby was an excellent pick. He eats innings for your first 2 seasons and will be a nice #2 behind Blue when you should be ready to make a run in 1971.

Yar, 'twas. I'd like to make another second round pick though. I'm game for an even-up trade, folks. You receive the player, I receive the draft pick.

[-Kyle-]

Lew trades his (mine) second round pick this year and 2nd round pick next year for my 1st and 3rd round pick next year.

[catcher24]

Legends confirm this trade: the second round pick I have coming next, received from Kyle in trade, and my second rounder in 1970 for Kyle's first rounder and third rounder in 1970.

[Erik Bedard]

Good trade for both Kyle and Lew. If I'm correct in guessing who Kyle will pick, he'll have probably improved his 1969 team more than anyone else.

[leecemark]

--He better hope so. If not he just traded away an awfully good player in next year's draft.

[jterry619]

in return for one of the following deals:

Deal A:
- a third and fourth in the current rookie draft for a second next season

Deal B:
- a fourth and fifth in the current rookie draft for a third this season

Deal C:
- a third, fourth and fifth in the current rookie draft for a second next season plus either a third baseman who can play right now or a catcher who can platoon right now.

[-Kyle-]

Ken Tatum...he drastically helps my bullpen.

[-Kyle-]

--He better hope so. If not he just traded away an awfully good player in next year's draft.

I highly doubt (but it IS possible) that I end up under .500 this year.

[Erik Bedard]

Tatum was exactly who I expected. Tatum and Gentry were at the top of my list of immediate impact players, so great job to Kyle to get both of them.

[leecemark]

--I had Tatum as a first round talent on my draft board, so as long as the Gamblers have a decent season (and they should) this is a good deal for them. Lew may even come to regret trading away the pick in his quest to stockpile first rounders next year. The Legends bullpen is pretty mediocore and a lights out, high inning guy like Tatum definately would have been a significant upgrade.

[catcher24]

Actually, Tatum wasn't who I had planned on taking anyway. He was second on my depth chart at this point. Yeah, I considered him quite seriously, but needed someone else more. My bullpen is a bit questionable this season, but with Sparky Lyle (150 ERA+, 1.35 WHIP), Ted Abernathy (127, 1.37), and Bob Locker (117, 1.27 - and probably my closer this point) I think I'll be OK, especially since I anticipate my starters will go at least six innings most games, with Jenkins, Hands and Seaver likely to go seven or eight most of the time. And I can use Ellis for long relief, as well as Lindy McDaniel. But Tatum certainly would've been nice to have!

However, other than immediate impact I didn't have Tatum as a first rounder. He has the marvelous 1969 season, a decent 1970 and is then done. The Gamblers will do better than last season, no doubt. But I don't expect the Shoeless Joes, Angels or Brawlers to simply roll over, either. I expect Kyle to finish in the middle of the pack for overall record, but even were he to have the fourth best record that gives me the 13th pick next year, as opposed to the 21st pick for Tatum. That pick in 1970 could convert to Al Hrabosky or Earl Williams that deep into the draft, still significantly better than Tatum's two seasons, so I figured it was worth the gamble. Could be wrong, though. Time will tell.

[catcher24]

Mark, this rookie draft is working out very well and perhaps we should consider using a similar format from now on. I mean, take a week or two to do all of the draft and skip the three hour Friday night marathon. Doing it this way has, I think, resulted in more trade activity, and also allows for a bit more study when making a pick. Just a thought.

[Sockeye]

I like the increased trade activity but 22 picks in 10 days isn't fast enough to do the entire draft this way. At that pace it would take 36 days to complete 5 rounds. We still need a live portion for at least 2 rounds in order to get it completed in a timely manner.

[leecemark]

--I think this is the way to. If we complete 2 rounds before the scheduled live portion Friday night we will just switch from no clock to an 8 hour clock at that point. If we haven't then we'll finish the 2nd round live and and then go on an 8 hour clock. Those of you who have a late 2nd rounder should plan on either being here or getting a proxy in. If you don't then you can make other plans for Friday night.

[Erik Bedard]

EH still hasn't checked in. Should we make his pick for him again?

[J W]

Actually this one is my pick. I will make it tonight.

thanks

[leecemark]

--The Skipjacks own the next pick. I got it from the Diablos a couple seasons ago for George Brunet and traded it to the Skipjacks as part of the package for their first rounder this year.

[Erik Bedard]

My bad for not checking on that.

[Sockeye]

whoops double post

[jterry619]

Sorry....I think I confused the issue.

I am offering my fourth and fifth round picks in the current rookie draft for a third rounder.....best pick gets the deal...sorry for the confusion I caused.

[J W]

In a difficult choice between two "B" grades left, the Skipjacks select RP/SP Barry Lersch. Three straight seasons of a 1.20 WHIP or lower. Unfortunately he, like others in this draft, has no resign value.

[BlueBlood]

In a difficult choice between two "B" grades left, the Skipjacks select RP/SP Barry Lersch. Three straight seasons of a 1.20 WHIP or lower. Unfortunately he, like others in this draft, has no resign value.

Great 1971 as a starter. ERA is above league average but his WHIP for that season is 1.180. A victim of either a hitter's park or poor players on the defensive end. Nice find.

Buppers, PLEASE read the PMs I sent and get back to me, and await my response before making your pick. Could be a big deal in the works for the Badgers.

[catcher24]

I like the increased trade activity but 22 picks in 10 days isn't fast enough to do the entire draft this way. At that pace it would take 36 days to complete 5 rounds. We still need a live portion for at least 2 rounds in order to get it completed in a timely manner.

I didn't mean do the entire draft that way, although I'm sure my post indicated that was my intent. What I meant was open it up like we've been doing for one week prior to rookie draft night, finish the first two rounds on draft night, then go on the eight hour clock. Alternatively, we could simply use the eight hour clock from the beginning. However, that might also be too long. Assuming 60 picks at 3 per day, even that would take 20 days (although things go quick at the beginning and end; it's the middle picks that seem to bog down).

BTW, nice pick JW. Lersch was high on my list, due to the low WHIP. But his K/BB ratio isn't too terrible for a couple of years, either. A good pickup, IMHO.

[leecemark]

--This draft is not going to go 5 rounds, at least not with everyone still participating. Even before expansion alot of owners passed after the third and most after the fourth. I'll be surprised if there is anybody I have any interest in left in the 4th and shocked if that is true in the 5th. And even if the interest is there the draft will conclude at whatever point we are at when its time for the free agent auction to start on the 13th.
--If you're interested in anybody left on the board at that point you'll have to bid on them. Presumably you could have them for minimum wage if they are unpicked at that point. Their future value would be lost to you though, since anyone signed for less than 5M has a 3 year maxiumum contract.

[buppers]

Sorry to hold things up but I gotta hear what Blueblood is offering :dance

[Sockeye]

24 hours since the last pick...:dismay::faint:

[BlueBlood]

24 hours since the last pick...:dismay::faint:

He'll be up soon and able to read my trade proposal. There's a big deal in the works and I'm going to make sure I walk away with his draft pick. It's not all for naught.


K. Big trade happened.

The Brawlers send Sockeye Sandy Alomar, Pete Mikkelsen and Ted Uhleander to the Badgers along with their 3rd, 4th and 5th round picks in '69 and their 3rd round pick in '70. In return, the Brawlers receive the Badgers' second round pick in '69. Badgers to confirm.

[Sockeye]

He'll be up soon and able to read my trade proposal. There's a big deal in the works and I'm going to make sure I walk away with his draft pick. It's not all for naught.

Does he live in Japan also :confused: Or are Badgers nocturnal? :noidea

[buppers]

Badgers confirm trade with Brawlers

[BlueBlood]

Brawlers select P - Carl Morton via the Badgers.

[Sockeye]

He'll be up soon and able to read my trade proposal. There's a big deal in the works and I'm going to make sure I walk away with his draft pick. It's not all for naught.


K. Big trade happened.

The Brawlers send Sockeye Sandy Alomar, Pete Mikkelsen and Ted Uhleander to the Badgers along with their 3rd, 4th and 5th round picks in '69 and their 3rd round pick in '70. In return, the Brawlers receive the Badgers' second round pick in '69. Badgers to confirm.

I protest that trade! I don't want to be sent to the Badgers. I wish to remain the Angels owner!!! :hide: :rofl:

[buppers]

Gonna make you the Badgers BATBOY
The Brawlers send Sockeye Sandy Alomar, Pete Mikkelsen and Ted Uhleander to the Badgers

[BlueBlood]

Ha! I meant to say "shortstop" had Sockeye on the brain from all of the PMs. :rofl:

[Sockeye]

With the 24th overall pick Sockeye's Angels select....TED SIZEMORE!!

[catcher24]

Brawlers select P - Carl Morton via the Badgers.

You've got to be kidding. You gave all that up for Carl Morton?:eek: What will you give me for Hank Aaron or Willie McCovey - or Tom Seaver, for that matter! I think a pair of first rounders and a second rounder will do it - for each!:dance:cap:

BTW, I presume you meant you were sending those players to the Badgers, not the Sockeye, since that's who confirmed the trade.:)

[BlueBlood]

With the 24th overall pick Sockeye's Angels select....TED SIZEMORE!!

And so begins the process of selecting players that could only be backups on any would-be contender. *sigh*

[BlueBlood]

You've got to be kidding. You gave all that up for Carl Morton?:eek: What will you give me for Hank Aaron or Willie McCovey - or Tom Seaver, for that matter! I think a pair of first rounders and a second rounder will do it - for each!:dance:cap:

I see it as having traded two 3rd rounders for Carl Morton. 4th/5th round were a way to make the deal more enticing initially and for me to be fully out of needing to research the rest of the field for this draft (which I never did beyond pitchers and the big-name players).

Losing those three players is no sweat because all of their contracts expire before '71 when things start to fall inline for me. Undoubtedly, it's a mutually beneficial trade that could only be pulled off when an expansion team can give up a lot when they're not a contender.

[catcher24]

With the 24th overall pick Sockeye's Angels select....TED SIZEMORE!!

Wondered when someone would grab him. He was the player I would've taken over Ken Tatum had I not traded the 21st pick back to Kyle. The OPS+ doesn't look all that great, but his OBP is above league average five of the next six years. He just doesn't have a lot of power, but would make a good leadoff hitter, or ninth slot hitter now that we have the DH.

Very nice selection, Garry.

[catcher24]

Undoubtedly, it's a mutually beneficial trade that could only be pulled off when an expansion team can give up a lot when they're not a contender.

Well, you can still have Aaron or McCovey for a couple of first rounders!:p

[BlueBlood]

:laugh Ha Ha, no dice. I'd never trade 1st or 2nd rounders. End of the 2nd round will at least get you a quality backup (or starter if your lineup is slightly lacking) or a pitcher with a big year. High-end 3rd round picks are tough to give up but I figure the value of Morton in his two great years (and possibly a reasonable fifth starter in another) plus a quality '70 that can fill in a hole for me next year is worth a bit more than two players from Round 3. Like I said, I can afford to lose now because I expected to do so. I traded meaningless players and draft picks to someone they did have meaning for while earning a pitcher that's absolutely beneficial.

Now, if I had pulled off this trade three seasons from now, you'd have every right to have me committed. :eek:


edit: Hmm. Starting to think I should franchise Vida Blue. Paying $12M for 69-70 is no big deal. The real hindrance is paying $12M in 71-74 when that could go towards a quality bat that could put me over the top. If he's franchised, I can keep him from 75-78 and then drop him in 79 when he starts to put a hole in my wallet. That doesn't even factor in the chance that I could have a young or weak team in 79 and be able to afford keeping him around for his quality 1980. If the usual rules were instituted for expansion owners, I could pay him dirt through '71 and then make the jump so at least I'd get my best year of starting pitching on the cheap and be able to chuck a ton of bats into the lineup. Hmm.

On the other hand, those years of 75-78 could make for a free agent contract worth at least $25 million and burn a hole in someone's pocket which is a plus. Not to mention I can still utilize the hometown discount when I get near 75 and find I have the payroll for him (probably won't).

[The Dude]

This is far and away the toughest pick we have to make this draft, trying to figure out who is most important to pick here.

In the end, Athletic Club of Appletonia selects, with the 25th overall pick in the draft

http://www.checkoutmycards.com/CardImages/Cards/007/776/08F.jpg


Now Batting for Pedro Borbon, Manny Mota ... Mota ... Mota...

[BlueBlood]

I. Heart. Airplane.

Borbon's a good test for the sim. He has a 158 ERA+ in 73 but a WHIP of 1.421.

[The Dude]

Borbon's an extremely interesting case. None of his years he is great in both WHIP and ERA+, but I'll take my chances. He's got a good arm for the 6 seasons I expect to be division champion. ;)

[Sockeye]

Wondered when someone would grab him. He was the player I would've taken over Ken Tatum had I not traded the 21st pick back to Kyle. The OPS+ doesn't look all that great, but his OBP is above league average five of the next six years. He just doesn't have a lot of power, but would make a good leadoff hitter, or ninth slot hitter now that we have the DH.

Very nice selection, Garry.

It's scary how much we think alike Lew! He was 4th on my draft board. I've been trying to trade up to take him since the late 1st round as I thought for sure he would be chosen before now. Couldn't get anyone to trade down without asking for the farm. Sizemore is the only player in the entire draft that I would want to have on my team for each of his first 6 seasons. As you pointed out his power is next to nothing but his OBP+ is actually 102 or higher in each of his first 6 seasons. Not half bad considering his position. He's also a very good defensive second baseman. Can also fill in at SS, 3B, or OF if need be. If all goes according to plan he'll be our starting 2B and 9th place hitter for the next 6 seasons.

I'm also pretty sure he was the player Mark was thinking of a while back.

[Sockeye]

You've got to be kidding. You gave all that up for Carl Morton?:eek: What will you give me for Hank Aaron or Willie McCovey - or Tom Seaver, for that matter! I think a pair of first rounders and a second rounder will do it - for each!:dance:cap:

BTW, I presume you meant you were sending those players to the Badgers, not the Sockeye, since that's who confirmed the trade.:)

Yeah it came as a shock to me when I found out it was Mr Morton that he was after and willing to offer all that for. He only has 1 season where his WHIP+ is over 100 (105 in 1973). Just slightly below average for most of his other seasons. Does give some decent innings though so that will help. I still had 23 pitchers ahead of him on my draft board (22 now that Borbon has been chosen)

[BlueBlood]

How many starting pitchers did you have ahead of him though? And I'm shocked you would have that many in front of him. I'd take his quality starting years over Borbon's value as a reliever, etc. so maybe we just put a different premium on things. I researched through the starters with the most value for the next six years and he made the list (although he was the last that was positively worth it).

Ah, so you were talking about Renko in the PM, Sockeye. Gotcha. Yeah, nice 73 but I don't need to win now (69/70), he's useless to me in '71, a waste in '72. It comes down to WHIPs in 73/74 of 1.238 and 1.331 compared to Morton's 1.264 and 1.391. Renko has the slight edge here but Morton has back-to-back ERA+ seasons of 116 and 120 whereas Renko has a 136 followed by a 95. Renko gives up more home runs in less innings and that's where the ERA+ becomes useful over WHIP.

For the record, I'm willing to offer up a similar sort of trade to snag Renko. 3rd rounders and a couple of players I can let loose.

[J W]

It's scary how much we think alike Lew! He was 4th on my draft board. I've been trying to trade up to take him since the late 1st round as I thought for sure he would be chosen before now. Couldn't get anyone to trade down without asking for the farm. Sizemore is the only player in the entire draft that I would want to have on my team for each of his first 6 seasons. As you pointed out his power is next to nothing but his OBP+ is actually 102 or higher in each of his first 6 seasons. Not half bad considering his position. He's also a very good defensive second baseman. Can also fill in at SS, 3B, or OF if need be. If all goes according to plan he'll be our starting 2B and 9th place hitter for the next 6 seasons.

I'm also pretty sure he was the player Mark was thinking of a while back.

If it means anything, he was the other player I gave a "B" grade and I was thiiiiis close to taking him over Lersch. Seeing as you're so high on him I guess trade talks are out of the question. :candle:

For reference, a worthwhile fifteen players received an "A" or "B" this season from Beanie Bill; and, this draft is stocked in the middle with 24 "C" grades, which should take us through the middle of round three.

[mac195]

With the 24th overall pick Sockeye's Angels select....TED SIZEMORE!!

This is the player Mark was hinting at all along. I almost took him at the end of the 1st round.

[Sockeye]

How many starting pitchers did you have ahead of him though? And I'm shocked you would have that many in front of him. I'd take his quality starting years over Borbon's value as a reliever, etc. so maybe we just put a different premium on things. I researched through the starters with the most value for the next six years and he made the list (although he was the last that was positively worth it).

Actually I revised my pitchers list a bit now. Morton moved up to 17th on the list of best remaining at that point in time. 6 starters (800+ BF in a season) still ahead of him on my draft board. Of course I only consider players by the number of seasons in which I would want to have them playing for my team. I'd only want to use Morton for 1 season (1973). There are still three pitchers remaining that I'd consider using for three seasons. Four others that I'd use for 2 seasons. 9 more that would give me one good season (all relievers) Of course when considering Morton's high number of batters faced during his one good season he could possibly move up a little more on the list depending on whether a person needs innings or not. We are pretty much set on innings for the next several years so quality is more important than quanity for us at least.

Oh and it's something of an unspoken rule around here but we usually don't mention players by name until after they have already been drafted. :shhh:

[BlueBlood]

I'll trade someone two of the following:

Rick Reichardt
Ron Swoboda
Dick Kelley

plus my 4th/5th in 70 and third in 71 for the next upcoming pick (right now it's the Redbirds).

[Sockeye]

If it means anything, he was the other player I gave a "B" grade and I was thiiiiis close to taking him over Lersch. Seeing as you're so high on him I guess trade talks are out of the question. :candle:

For reference, a worthwhile fifteen players received an "A" or "B" this season from Beanie Bill; and, this draft is stocked in the middle with 24 "C" grades, which should take us through the middle of round three.

Trade talks with us are never out of the question. Sizemore is a really good fit for our team though so it would take a lot to pry him away from us. Feel free to shoot us an offer in PM land.

[Sockeye]

This is the player Mark was hinting at all along. I almost took him at the end of the 1st round.

Nice to know I wasn't going crazy and he was on other people's radar as well.

[BlueBlood]

Mestarts to think I could've acquired Morton without all the hassle and loss of my next third round pick (which will surely be 33rd overall). :rofl:

I promise to not screw up so bad next time. :bowdown:

[leecemark]

--Morton is a pretty solid innings eater. I had him as the 7th best SP in the draft and thought he might go higher than that. If you use IP/ERA as your primary criteria he could have ranked as high as 3rd amoung SP, but his WHIP and HR allowed are less impressive. Sizemore I thought might go in the first. He gives an immediate payoff and is a decent starter for all 6 years under team control.

[catcher24]

It's scary how much we think alike Lew! He was 4th on my draft board. I've been trying to trade up to take him since the late 1st round as I thought for sure he would be chosen before now. Couldn't get anyone to trade down without asking for the farm. Sizemore is the only player in the entire draft that I would want to have on my team for each of his first 6 seasons. As you pointed out his power is next to nothing but his OBP+ is actually 102 or higher in each of his first 6 seasons. Not half bad considering his position. He's also a very good defensive second baseman. Can also fill in at SS, 3B, or OF if need be. If all goes according to plan he'll be our starting 2B and 9th place hitter for the next 6 seasons.

I'm also pretty sure he was the player Mark was thinking of a while back.

It is scary how much we think alike. Sizemore was very high on my board as well. I actually figured him to go top 10 for sure and simply couldn't believe it when he was still there at #21! I still think I might've made a mistake in basically trading him for the first rounder next year. :noidea Obviously I'm hoping Kyle doesn't do very well so that first rounder is a top 10 pick! And picking Sizemore up now at the 250K salary level is simply a steal. The one thing that convinced me to take the pick is that I have Joe Morgan at second base and Ron Santo at third for the next four years, so the gamble was worth it. Tatum wasn't even a consideration, since Sizemore was going to be my pick.

[catcher24]

How many starting pitchers did you have ahead of him though?

I actually had a team mate ranked ahead of him. He's certainly not as far down my list as Garry's, though.

[leecemark]

--I thought you disagreed with me on raking Morton as the 2nd best Expo rookie pitcher this year?

[leecemark]

--As many of you are already aware, Scott/BaseballPAP is dealing with some serious health problems and has had limited time for baseball recently. He let me know at the start of the offseason that he may need me to help out with the Redbirds. I did sent him a e-mail yesterday letting him know he was up and making some draft suggestions. If I don't hear back by this evening I'll go ahead and pick for him so the draft can keep moving.

[buppers]

Mestarts to think I could've acquired Morton without all the hassle and loss of my next third round pick (which will surely be 33rd overall). :rofl:

I promise to not screw up so bad next time. :bowdown:


I don't think you screwed up at all. Just feel free to contact me ANYTIME you have that impulse again. Don't let the rest of these owners influence you, just keep doing what you think is best :)

Ed

[buppers]

Does he live in Japan also :confused: Or are Badgers nocturnal? :noidea

Like Scott, of PAP Redbirds, I work night shift.

Ed

[leecemark]

--Fitting since Badgers are, indeed, nocturnal.

[J W]

Ya know, looking at the entirety of Toby Harrah's career, he was a heck of a player. It's gonna take $$$ to resign him but if you do Mark, you'll be a winner in this draft.

How come nobody really talks about him these days?

[leecemark]

--Its easy to see why he was overlooked while active, although he was at least a minor star. He played for losers outside of the media spotlight and had the low BA, high OBP, good power (for his position anyway) profle that has only come to be fully appreciated in recent years. You'd think he'd have his fans amoung the sabermetric crowd now though. Similar type of player to Jimmy Wynn and Darrell Evans, although not quite Wynn's peak or Evans longevity. He was not a particularly good defensive player either. His best years at SS he was no more than average and he moved to 3B fairly early.
--I definately did draft him with an eye towards resigning him when he hits the market. He gives me 3 pretty good years just when Cardenas goes in the tank, but I wouldn't have taken him in the first without the re-sign value.

[jterry619]

He wasn't overlooked by our team management...unfortunately, he wasn't overlooked by his current owner!!

[Sockeye]

The Orange County Register is reporting that Angels ace pitcher Dave McNally could be on the trading block. When asked for comment Angels management would neither deny nor confirm the report. However a source close to management revealed the Angels will be looking at offers over the next week and if the right offer comes along the star pitcher could be moved as part of a substantial draft pick package.

[BlueBlood]

I don't think you screwed up at all. Just feel free to contact me ANYTIME you have that impulse again. Don't let the rest of these owners influence you, just keep doing what you think is best :)

Ed

It's not that big of an issue as I had a lot of spare change to hand out. Giving up next year's 3rd rounder was potentially pretty shortsighted though.

[catcher24]

--I thought you disagreed with me on raking Morton as the 2nd best Expo rookie pitcher this year?

Mark, those top secret rookie discussions should never be mentioned in the threads!:shhh::laugh:laugh

I took a second look, and the other guys K/BB ratios were enough better to swing me his way. As usual, you were right the first time while it took me more study to reach the same conclusion.:atthepc

[catcher24]

--Its easy to see why he was overlooked while active, although he was at least a minor star. He played for losers outside of the media spotlight and had the low BA, high OBP, good power (for his position anyway) profle that has only come to be fully appreciated in recent years. You'd think he'd have his fans amoung the sabermetric crowd now though. Similar type of player to Jimmy Wynn and Darrell Evans, although not quite Wynn's peak or Evans longevity. He was not a particularly good defensive player either. His best years at SS he was no more than average and he moved to 3B fairly early.
--I definately did draft him with an eye towards resigning him when he hits the market. He gives me 3 pretty good years just when Cardenas goes in the tank, but I wouldn't have taken him in the first without the re-sign value.

All good and valid points. Harrah was high on my list, but of course my list was simply wishful thinking this year. He was an excellent pick. I have to surmise that Evans was somewhat overlooked in his day as well, same explanation, although his power helped him to gain some notoriety during his playing days.

[jterry619]

What time on Friday....and what time zone...details?

Also, any possibility of getting an updated DMB file prior to the draft? Thanks and good luck to all

[leecemark]

--The live draft is scheduled for 8PM EST tomorrow. However, the live portion is only to take us to the end of the 2nd round, so if you've already made your picks for that round (or if the round is complete) then the 8 hour clock will go into effect from then til it wraps up on the 13th. Of course the more of us who are present and get things moving along the better. I'll get a new file sent out tonight.

[leecemark]

--The Redbirds select SS Bill Russell

[mac195]

HC take Bob Johnson.

[leecemark]

--Curse you Mac:grouchy. JW, unless Johnson was your man as well I'll take the deal now.

[The Dude]

This was another tough choice, but seeing as I pick again in 9 turns, a man can pray, can't he? Then again, Russell went right after my last pick, so all I'll do is shed a tear if the next guy I want goes right after this pick. In the end, it came down to much better resign value than the next guy, very good offensive production, and a left handed bat.

With the 28th overall pick in the 1969 Rookie Draft, the Athletic Club of Appletonia selects....

http://lavieenrobe.typepad.com/la_vie_en_robe/images/2007/08/10/gamble2.jpg

Oscar Gamble

In recent news from the AC front, manager Stan Musial declared that Appletonia will run an "afro policy", penalizing each player that doesn't don the signature fro, $100 dollars a week. Gamble's secret was quickly pilfered by his new teammates.

[mac195]

LOL... love the hairdo, Oscar! How did he ever fit that under a baseball cap?

[catcher24]

LOL... love the hairdo, Oscar! How did he ever fit that under a baseball cap?

As I recall, his cap just sort of floated on top of all the hair!

Nice pick, Dude, and I'm really surprised Oscar lasted this long. He has one of the highest resign values of the players in this draft, I think, as well as some decent seasons the first six years.

[leecemark]

--The proposed deal between JW and I was a pretty small one and I won't hold up the draft awaiting confirmation. The Knights select RHP Ron Klimkowski.

[leecemark]

--I see 7 teams still needing a primary cacther. There are only 5 catchers not under contract with as many as 300 PA. One of those is still available in this draft, so if you are one of those 7 you might consider that as the talent starts to run thin. The other spot at which there is going to be a crunch is SP. Using 168 IP as the mimimum baseline for a SP I see 18 openings on our rosters. There are only 11 unsigned pitchers who achieve that mark. Two of which are still available in the draft. Of course its possible to fill those spots by switching out spare parts, but if you want a regular then you'll need to addrees that soon.
--The other positions all have enough bodies to go around. In many cases they are no more than warm bodies, but some team let them play in real life. The joys of expansion:cap:.

[The Dude]

As I recall, his cap just sort of floated on top of all the hair!

Nice pick, Dude, and I'm really surprised Oscar lasted this long. He has one of the highest resign values of the players in this draft, I think, as well as some decent seasons the first six years.

That's another reason I decided to go with Gamble, as I myself was a bit surprised he was still avaliable. I'm assuming it's because the other expansion teams are expecting to compete in 70, 71, 72, and I"m shooting for later.

[Erik Bedard]

--I see 7 teams still needing a primary cacther. There are only 5 catchers not under contract with as many as 300 PA. One of those is still available in this draft, so if you are one of those 7 you might consider that as the talent starts to run thin. The other spot at which there is going to be a crunch is SP. Using 168 IP as the mimimum baseline for a SP I see 18 openings on our rosters. There are only 11 unsigned pitchers who achieve that mark. Two of which are still available in the draft. Of course its possible to fill those spots by switching out spare parts, but if you want a regular then you'll need to addrees that soon.
--The other positions all have enough bodies to go around. In many cases they are no more than warm bodies, but some team let them play in real life. The joys of expansion:cap:.

If anyone needs a catcher, I've got a full-timer for minimum wage in Johnny Edwards (and another in Johnny Bench, but you're not getting him). PM me if interested.

I've got three spots filled in my rotation, with Jim Perry (who is finally earning that 20.75M salary), Jim Maloney, and Mike McCormick (again, who finally earns that salary). If I can't get either of the top two starters available in free agency, I've got Stan Bahnsen, but I'd prefer not to use him. Mike Hedlund projects as my fifth starter right now, who will be on skip.

[Sockeye]

--The Knights select RHP Ron Klimkowski.

The best remaining 1970 season among pitchers.

[mac195]

The Hard Cider select Billy "Grabs" Grabarkewitz, and we're starting to like the looks of our 1970 lineup.

[J W]

The Skipjacks are looking for a good shortstop for 1970 and are offering their #32 pick for him. PM me if you're interested.

[leecemark]

--Grabs was your man then JW? He only has one season where he is worth anything, but that is one terrific season.
--The Knights send their 1972 1st round pick to the Hard Cider for Bob Johnson.

[leecemark]

--The Redbirds select RHP Steve Renko.

[Sockeye]

The Hard Cider select Billy "Grabs" Grabarkewitz, and we're starting to like the looks of our 1970 lineup.

Another solid choice. Your drafting style is quite similar to mine. If not for Sizemore being available I would have seriously considered taking him with my last pick.

[Sockeye]

--Grabs was your man then JW? He only has one season where he is worth anything, but that is one terrific season.


He's decent in 73 & 74 but in much less playing time.

[leecemark]

--Your definition of decent is more charitable than mine. I can't imagine paying a million dollars (and then 1.25M) for a utility IF flirting with the Mendoza Line. My bet is Mac enjoys the All Star campaign in 1970 and wishes him good luck in his future endeavors.

[leecemark]

--Anybody looking for pitching I'd be willing to part with Jim McGlothlin for the right price. Not sure what that might be, but I'm interested in hearing what you think he is worth. He delivers over 200 above average innings this year and next at a reasonable price. Draft picks are always welcome and I could use bullpen help for 70-71, an OF/DH type for the same years or a SP who comes up big in 71.

[Sockeye]

--Your definition of decent is more charitable than mine. I can't imagine paying a million dollars (and then 1.25M) for a utility IF flirting with the Mendoza Line. My bet is Mac enjoys the All Star campaign in 1970 and wishes him good luck in his future endeavors.

107 OBP+ in 1973
104 OBP+ in 1974

A utility IF that can get on base is always decent.

[jterry619]

LOL... love the hairdo, Oscar! How did he ever fit that under a baseball cap?

He lives in Montgomery, Alabama....coached a couple of his kids including Sean who just got cut from the Pensacola Pelicans, an independent team.

Had a chance to get to know him a bit when I was working in independent minor league ball...he no longer has the hair..ha!

[catcher24]

--Grabs was your man then JW? He only has one season where he is worth anything, but that is one terrific season.
--The Knights send their 1972 1st round pick to the Hard Cider for Bob Johnson.

WHOA, seems like a rather steep price to pay for Bob Johnson. Three good seasons. But I know you'll be in the championship race those three years so the price is worth it to you. I would've given Roger Nelson for that high a pick, but he only gives two good years - but that 1972 season he has is tremendous.

[catcher24]

Well, as I see it, there won't be any rookie draft this evening, so I won't plan on being here. The only pick left to make in the first two rounds is the Knights, who have my second rounder via trade. I presume the compensation pick for the Redbirds will be on the 8 hour clock, as will all of the remaining selections.

There were some nice picks that went late, and a couple of guys who went early that surprised me. I will finally get a pick (and very likely my only one) after six more selections, so please leave me someone with at least one decent season, huh guys?:nod:;)

[catcher24]

I've been working on the new web site and have basically stopped maintaining the old one to concentrate on the new one from here on out. I have all of what I think are the most important links up and working, and the Shoeless Joes team page will be done shortly. When the season starts, all of the links under the STATS heading in the left hand column will be fully functional, so those stats will be accessible. Also, although it will be quite a while before all of the individual team pages are finished, any team will be able to access their team stats by clicking on the STATS link on the main title bar, then choosing their team from the linked teams page (still under construction, but about 50% finished and will be done by the season start).

Incidentally, if anyone is interested in having a stat added that isn't there, PM me. Once a team's individual team page is done, the stats accessed from that location can be customized to the team if desired.

Hope this all works out OK, and I also hope that you guys will be a little patient while any bugs are worked out.

The new web site is located HERE (http://diamondmindckl.lewssite.net/)

[leecemark]

WHOA, seems like a rather steep price to pay for Bob Johnson. Three good seasons. But I know you'll be in the championship race those three years so the price is worth it to you. I would've given Roger Nelson for that high a pick, but he only gives two good years - but that 1972 season he has is tremendous.

--Bob Johnson was the guy I was targeting with the 12th pick in the first this year, before Harrah slipped and altered my plan to focus on pitching for 70-71 with my picks this year. I'll just consider Harrrah by 72 #1 instead:).
--I ended up getting pretty much everything I wanted in this draft (well there is still one guy I'd like to complete the master plan). Johnson is a TOR SP in 70 with Roberts also a solid rotation option and Klimkowski a top reliever. Roberts is the TOR guy in 71, with Johnson a 4/5 SP and Klimkowski a decent bullpen arm. I think I'm going to have to go into a rebuilding mode in 72 so Nelson would not have had nearly the appeal of Johnson.

[leecemark]

Well, as I see it, there won't be any rookie draft this evening, so I won't plan on being here. The only pick left to make in the first two rounds is the Knights, who have my second rounder via trade. I presume the compensation pick for the Redbirds will be on the 8 hour clock, as will all of the remaining selections.

There were some nice picks that went late, and a couple of guys who went early that surprised me. I will finally get a pick (and very likely my only one) after six more selections, so please leave me someone with at least one decent season, huh guys?:nod:;)

--I passed your pick along to JW, so he has the last pick of the 2nd. I'll be picking for Scott and also own the Thunder's 3rd rounder so we'll be to the Wranglers by a few minutes after 8.

[J W]

Well, it looks like nothing has happened yet so we're going to take another pitcher whose WHIP belies his ERA: SP Reggie Cleveland.

Cleveland is an innings eater with decent to very good WHIP from '71-'74. He is a tradeable commodity, though he has resign value for us.

[leecemark]

--The Redbirds take Tom Griffin
--The Knights take Lloyd Allen.

[jterry619]

Which pick are we on overall?

[jkc32]

Which pick are we on overall?

We are on pick #2 in the 3rd round.

[jterry619]

We are on pick #2 in the 3rd round.


Thanks...much appreciated

[leecemark]

Round 1
1m or 12m depending on franchise tag choice
1) Thunder: Thurman Munson (franchise player)
2) Wranglers: Carlton Fisk (franchise player)
3) Brawlers: Vida Blue
4) Appletonia : Darrell Evans (franchise player)
750K
5) Angels from Gamblers: Bernie Carbo
6) Diablos: Dave Cash
7) Badgers: Gene Tenace
8) Knights from Angels: Dave Roberts
500K
9) Hard Cider form Shoeless Joes: Ron Bloomberg
10) Thunder from Redbirds: Dick Drago
11) Cloverleafs : Jerry Ruess
12) Knights from Skipjacks : Toby Harrah
All players from here down are 250K
13) Gamblers from Knights: Gary Gentry
14) Cloverleafs from Hard Cider: Steve Garvey
15) Hard Cider from Gold Sox: Wayne Garrett
16) Hard Cider from Legends: Tom Bradley


Round 2
17) Cloverleafs from Thunder: Chuck Taylor
18) Wranglers: Bill Buckner
19) Brawlers: Clay Kirby
20) Appletonia: Bill Lee
21) Gamblers: Ken Tatum
22) Skipjacks from Diablos: Barry Lersh
23) Brawlers from Badgers: Carl Morton
24) Angels: Ted Sixemore
25) Appletonia from Shoeless Joes: Pedro Borbon
26) Redbirds: BIll Russell
27) Hard Cider from Cloverleafs: Bob Johnson
28) Appletonia from Skipjacks: Oscar Gamble
29) Knights: Ron Klimkowski
30) Hard Cider: Billy Grabarkowitz
31) Redbirds from Gold Sox: Steve Renko
32) Skipjacks from Legends: Reggie Cleveland

2a
33) Redbirds (compensation pick): Tom Griffin

Round 3
34) Knights from Thunder: Lloyd Allen
35) Wranglers:
36) Badgers from Brawlers:
37) Appletonia:
38) Legends from Gamblers:
39) Diablos:
40) Badgers:
41) Appletonia from Angels:
42) Hard Cider from Shoeless Joes:
43) Redbirds:
44) Cloverleafs:
45) Skipjacks:
46) Knights:
47) Angels from Hard Cider:
48) Shoeless Joes from Gold Sox:
49) Hard Cider from Legends:

[catcher24]

Since the first two rounds are now completed, that puts us on the eight hour clock. I show the Wranglers as having the next pick, unless they traded and I didn't catch it (missed two so far - a lot of trading going on!). I'll check in later to see if it's down to my pick yet.

[leecemark]

--Wranglers is correct. Unless I missed a trade too:cap:. There has been alot of movement in this draft - with at least a few picks moved more than once:hp.

[Hack_Miller]

The Wranglers will select OF-George Foster

[Sockeye]

The Wranglers will select OF-George Foster

He was one that I thought should have been a franchise player

[catcher24]

The Wranglers will select OF-George Foster

Wondered when he would go. Not much value until 1974 really, but of course HUGE resign value. Definitely a long range pick, though.

[mac195]

--Grabs was your man then JW? He only has one season where he is worth anything, but that is one terrific season.
--The Knights send their 1972 1st round pick to the Hard Cider for Bob Johnson.

We confirm.

[buppers]

Badgers select Gene Garber.

As a side note, Gene Garber and my 2nd pick this round is available (along with everybody else, of course).

Looking for picks in 70 and 71 and young talent.

Ed

[leecemark]

Wondered when he would go. Not much value until 1974 really, but of course HUGE resign value. Definitely a long range pick, though.

--Foster is nearly worthless over the 6 years under club control, but I would have taken him with the first pick of the 3rd anyway if I thought I could re-sign him. Having already picked Harrah in the 1st though I didn't think I'd be able to hold on to both in the same FA market.

[leecemark]

--The Dude is on the clock til 11AM EST. Legends on deck.

[catcher24]

Sorry, Mark. I misread what you had put up for the Dude. I thought his clock started at 11AM, not ended. I would've made this pick hours ago otherwise!

The Legends, with their first pick of the 1969 rookie draft, choose catcher

JOHN ELLIS

Ellis is, IMHO, the best remaining player left, and I don't think it's even real close taking his position into consideration. I'm totally surprised that a guy who can be a decent backup two years, a platoon partner two years, and an almost everyday catcher for two years, with a decent bat, wasn't grabbed by somebody yet.

[jkc32]

Ellis was the guy I was trying to move up to get. Figured he wouldn't last much longer. Great pick at this stage of the draft Lew!

[Sockeye]

That should put Appletonia and the Diablos on the clock til 1:52 AM.

[Sockeye]

Sorry, Mark. I misread what you had put up for the Dude. I thought his clock started at 11AM, not ended. I would've made this pick hours ago otherwise!

The Legends, with their first pick of the 1969 rookie draft, choose catcher

JOHN ELLIS

Ellis is, IMHO, the best remaining player left, and I don't think it's even real close taking his position into consideration. I'm totally surprised that a guy who can be a decent backup two years, a platoon partner two years, and an almost everyday catcher for two years, with a decent bat, wasn't grabbed by somebody yet.

Very good pick with Ellis. Was certainly on my short list. Didn't think he'd fall to me at 47 though. Four seasons that he can be an asset to a team. The fact he catches might set him apart as the best remaining player. Nice choice Lew!

[jkc32]

Just relooked the long-term outlook for my squad and it's definately built for the short-term. I only have 6 players signed through 1972 and 3 of them should be subs that year. Nothing like putting pressure on the 70-71 drafts to fill out a roster in 72.

[ElHalo]

Al Fitzmorris.

[catcher24]

Ellis was the guy I was trying to move up to get. Figured he wouldn't last much longer. Great pick at this stage of the draft Lew!

Like I said, I misread what Mark had put up about Dude. I thought his clock started at 11AM, not ended. So I waited an extra six hours, worrying the whole time he would take Ellis with his pick. Boy, would I have been upset with myself if Dude had picked him after 11 but before I figured out it was actually my pick!:eek:

On a different note, nice to see you present, Jim! Hope you get a bit more time to work on your team. I know you've been very busy at work and commuting.

[The Dude]

okay' g
w
ac selects fred kendall. to all whove been trying o conmtact me for ttadesa.' sorry. i had to moe out last night and havent been able to get online until tonight and im on my sisters ridicously small phone' 4&oso mark you have my permission to draft the best avaliable for me when its my turn. also i wont be able to check my messages for a few days ' my situatuion should improve by the end of the month i hope

[buppers]

Better late than never.
Badgers take OF Billy Conigliaro.

Ed

[jterry619]

Trying to unload some salary...Pepitone is at 8.75 but provides some pop at first and in the outfield...looking to trade for either a 3B, a rookie pick this year and a player, or a pick in the 70 draft.

We also have Jerry May / Catcher and Ken Berry...both at 5,000,000

[leecemark]

--Appletonia takes RHP Dick Woodson
--Hard Cider takes RHP Jim Colborn
--Redbirds takes RHP Tom Timmerman
--Cloverleafs on the clock....

[leecemark]

--For anybody looking for immediate help there are some players who contribute this season who have been passed over in favor of players with bigger futures. Which is understandable since each of these is a one year wonder:cap:. Still there is a very good SP, a couple very good LH set up men and an everyday 3B still on the board. Also a decent SP and a decent reliever who have at least some future value, although less than some others who don't contribute this year. You could have a bundle of cash using a 3rd rounder (or maybe even a 4th) instead of trying to fill those holes in free agency.

[jterry619]

Cloverleafs get Cesar Tovar and the Badgers next pick in the draft

Badgers get Joe Pepitone and the Cloverleafs 2nd rounder in 1971



Badgers to confirm.

Leafs still offering Jerry May and Ken Berry

[buppers]

Badgers confirm trade with Cloverleafs

[jterry619]

Mike Kilkenny..

[jkc32]

--For anybody looking for immediate help there are some players who contribute this season who have been passed over in favor of players with bigger futures. Which is understandable since each of these is a one year wonder:cap:. Still there is a very good SP, a couple very good LH set up men and an everyday 3B still on the board. Also a decent SP and a decent reliever who have at least some future value, although less than some others who don't contribute this year. You could have a bundle of cash using a 3rd rounder (or maybe even a 4th) instead of trying to fill those holes in free agency.

Shhhh...my 1st pick is coming up and I don't want anyone to know I may go after 1 of the guys you're mentioning.

[J W]

Ellis was a terrific pick and was first on our board for Rd 3. The only thing keeping him from going much higher appears to be mediocre defense (hence time at 1B/DH).

The Skipjacks are still happy to select lefty RP Fred Scherman this late.

There are still no less than four "C" grades on our board approaching the fourth round.

[leecemark]

--The Knights select RHP Bart Johnson.

[Sockeye]

With the 47th overall pick Sockeye's Angels select....Ike Brown

[-Kyle-]

BTW, I have my own 4th round pick.

I was hoping Ike Brown would last down to me, solid utility player.

[catcher24]

--Appletonia takes RHP Dick Woodson
--Hard Cider takes RHP Jim Colborn
--Redbirds takes RHP Tom Timmerman
--Cloverleafs on the clock....

Good picks, Mark. You wiped out the top two guys left on my list, and Timmerman wasn't too far down, either.

[Sockeye]

BTW, I have my own 4th round pick.

I was hoping Ike Brown would last down to me, solid utility player.

He'll be our DH in the playoffs.

[jkc32]

At pick 48, Shoeless selects the man with the stone glove and feather bat...Marty Perez, SS.