Who will be the first manager fired in 2008?

[Zagi-CRO]

After 7 weeks I was thinking about managers who didn't filling out the duties.
A look at the possible candidates /my list/:

1. Jim Leyland, Tigers
After being predicted to win the WS, the Tigers have the worst record in the AL!?
2. Ned Yost, Brewers
The Brewers have lost 5 in row, 12 of 17. The record 20-24 isn't success.
3. John McLaren, Mariners
After Bedard's arrival, the Mariners have only one win more then the Tigers.

What do you think who will be the first manager fired in this season?

[Mattingly]

Have two managers from the same city ever been fired on the same day? If not, then history awaits. However, I don't dare say which city, but please take a nice guess. :D ;) :p

Impatient owner on the navy and silky white side, and impatient fans on the royal blue and deep orange side of things.

[Old Sweater]

You can take Hurdle off of that list. Go's to the same church as the Monforts.

Last year was suppose to be the bubble year for Hurdle/GM O'Dowd and they was both signed to 3 year extensions 1 or 2 games into the 2007 season. It was the 2nd time this has happened. IMO>>>>>> As long as the Monforts own the Rockies, Hurdle and O'Dowd will have a job no matter how the Rockies do.

[whoisonit]

Have two managers from the same city ever been fired on the same day? If not, then history awaits.

Do you honestly think Girardi is on thin ice ? I can't see that, really, no way.
I have tremendous respect for Cashman sticking to his blue print of building from within and I feel Girardi is the corner stone of that plan.
This is a transitional year, and next season will be a growing year. Hank's funny and quotable and all, but I don't think he'll become the monsterous beast his father was for another 2 years or so.

[Zagi-CRO]

Have two managers from the same city ever been fired on the same day? If not, then history awaits. However, I don't dare say which city, but please take a nice guess. :D ;) :p

Impatient owner on the navy and silky white side, and impatient fans on the royal blue and deep orange side of things.

And the winner is ... oooops .... city is...? NY?

[KCGHOST]

I don't know who will be the first to be fired, but I wouldn't be shocked if Leyland quit.

[whoisonit]

I don't know who will be the first to be fired, but I wouldn't be shocked if Leyland quit.

LOL. I see I'm not the only one who has no respect for this quitter.
When the going gets tough ... Leyland gets going.

[Erik Bedard]

McLaren. Though if I had my choice, I'd say Dusty Baker.

[Old Sweater]

LOL. I see I'm not the only one who has no respect for this quitter.
When the going gets tough ... Leyland gets going.


Probably has a new batch of grandkids he wants to spend time with since he up and quit the Rockies when the going got tougher then he could handle.

I've also noticed that a few of the Tiger posters have quit on the baseball boards I go to. Probably be back if the Tigers get hot.;)

[YankeeFanUK]

i would say either Yost or Bud Black ( fathers are a huge dissapointment so far as are the Crew )

[YankeeFanUK]

Probably has a new batch of grandkids he wants to spend time with since he up and quit the Rockies when the going got tougher then he could handle.

I've also noticed that a few of the Tiger posters have quit on the baseball boards I go to. Probably be back if the Tigers get hot.;)

didnt you know, Detroit is Hockeytown again :)

[efin98]

I'm going with Ron Washington. He's been on the hot seat all year and looks like he's only a meltdown away from being out of the job.

I think Ned Yost will finish out the year. He made mistakes this year but he brought the Brewers their first winning record in 16 years and is not responsible for the Brewers picking up a has-been reliever who blew five games for them.

If they go more than a few games below .500 I think Ozzie Guillen will be given the boot, he can only get on everyone's nerves for so long and the negative publicity will be too much...

[Jermz]

Please dump Bochy! I wished we had gotten Bud Black before 2007 started, but we got stuck with Mr. Padre and he brought all his Padre friends with him. Even the hated Orel Hershiser would've been better than Bochy. The only thing that would have been WORSE than him, is if we STILL had Felipe Alou.

[NYMets523]

Willie Randolph. The Mets are accessing the situation in June (11 days from now). On top of the Mets' mediocre, up-and-down playing he's playing the race card, bashing the fans, and bashing SNY (which is owned by the Mets) and other media. Oh yeah, and there was that thing last year...

[MadHatter]

I'm going with Ron Washington.

[efin98]

Willie Randolph. The Mets are accessing the situation in June (11 days from now). On top of the Mets' mediocre, up-and-down playing he's playing the race card, bashing the fans, and bashing SNY (which is owned by the Mets) and other media. Oh yeah, and there was that thing last year...

I wouldn't be surprised if he had his hopes set on getting canned so he will be free to grab the Yankees' potential open managing position at some point in the future...

[NYMets523]

I wouldn't be surprised if he had his hopes set on getting canned so he will be free to grab the Yankees' potential open managing position at some point in the future...

They won't fire Girardi. Hank is patient with him, it's Cashman who is on the hot seat.

[Mattingly]

Do you honestly think Girardi is on thin ice ? I can't see that, really, no way.
I have tremendous respect for Cashman sticking to his blue print of building from within and I feel Girardi is the corner stone of that plan.
This is a transitional year, and next season will be a growing year. Hank's funny and quotable and all, but I don't think he'll become the monsterous beast his father was for another 2 years or so.
My apologies in advance for a very long post. Many thoughts brought out, some related, but many randomly mentioned. However, I believe it'll be somewhat interesting at least. :)

He could be. I don't anticipate it, looking back on my earlier comments. However, Yogi Berra was infamously fired 16 games into the 1985 season, which took 14 years (and conveniently occurring after the passing of Joe DiMaggio) for the tide to turn and Big Stein inviting Yogi back, giving him and his wife a trip to Italy, etc. Long story.

Joe Girardi gets more leeway than does Willie Randolph, I believe, since he's in his first season here, and his first for a hi-profile, big-market team, with his single 2006 season in Miami being his rook year. By comparison, Randolph is in his 4th season for the cross-town hi-profile, big-market team.

Both teams have fans who demand to win. One, in the Bronx, has been way too used to it, and more money is made for a team making the playoffs than one which doesn't, since endless t-shirts, jerseys and other memorabilia are made, along with the expected countless sports ads for this merchandise in the local papers. In the Big Apple, both Steinbrenners and the Wilpons expect this.

Girardi doesn't suffer from the 2004 ALCS that Torre suffered from. Willie, however, does still suffer from the September 2007 collapse, which followed the 2006 ALCS which had so many Mets fans so happy and expecting of theird 5th invitation to the Big Dance (1969, 1973, 1986, 2000).

Now on WFAN (the local talk radio, for those outside the greater NYC area), they're complaining about Willie not complaining loud enough about the blown HR call on Sunday.

As a Yankee fan who knew they'd never hire a rookie manager to replace Torre, especially since Torre kept re-signing his contract, I didn't think that Willie, who'd never managed in the Minors, would ever get hired by the Yanks. This despite 30 years as a Yankee in one way or the next. Because of that, I hope that he doesn't get fired. However, all the love he receives from Yankee fans--which I believe is very strong and sincere--may not carry over to the Mets fans, who just want to see their team win much more often.

I tend to think that Yankee fans have grown more patient of late for managers, since we've had all of one for the winning years (1996-2000), and kept him through the losing years (2001-07): Joe Torre. No more endless firings and rehirings of Billy Martin, including one infamous George-Billy meltdown at the press conference when Billy was being re-introduced as the Yankee skipper.

Mets fans, by comparison, since 1996 (http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/NYM/) have had Dallas Green (fired in the 1996 season), Bobby Valentine, Art Howe, and now Willie Randolph. I'm guessing that's one reason why we're less prone to firing managers of late, since Torre kept his job for 12 season (a miracle, considering the principal owner's temperament).

Shall Willie keep his job? If he can avoid games like Game 1 of today's matchup against Tom Glavine, he who so symbolically misrepresented the Mets in late September 2007, especially his final game vs Dontrelle Willis, allowed 7 runs in very few innings, did this today:

http://www.sportsline.com/mlb/gamecenter/recap/MLB_20080520_NYM@ATL (click on "Full Play-by-Play")

1-out solo HR, single, walk, single to load the bases, followed by two lineouts. 1 out, bases loaded, how can the team not score a run? The only run scored that inning was from the earlier solo HR, before the rally even started.

Afterwards, Glavine proceeded to shut down 17 straight batters, onto a 6-1 Braves win. This after a struggling Glavine had declined his 2008 Mets option, and this was his first win of the season.

In the end, Willie will have to get his struggling lineup to be consistent, and to be able to take advantage of opportunities given to them. You've *GOTTA* score those runs with bases loaded, 1 out. Sac fly or groundout to 1B is fine, but if Willie's team can have better games on a consistent basis, then I believe he has a job. If the team continues to fail, ends September in 3rd place, especially if ending the season dismally, then I believe that the Wilpons may be looking in other directions.

[Mattingly]

They won't fire Girardi. Hank is patient with him, it's Cashman who is on the hot seat.
Why do you feel that Hank Steinbrenner is patient with Joe Girardi, but not with GM Brian Cashman? Would that be due to Cashman's insistence last winter that the Yanks not bust the budget and trade their young guns and Melky Cabrera for Johan Santana, who currently resides in the ace spot for the Mets?

Please elaborate. :)

[Mattingly]

Willie Randolph. The Mets are accessing the situation in June (11 days from now). On top of the Mets' mediocre, up-and-down playing he's playing the race card, bashing the fans, and bashing SNY (which is owned by the Mets) and other media. Oh yeah, and there was that thing last year...
I'm listening to WFAN right now and Mike Francessa is discussing this. He'd mentioned Willie referring to since-fired past NYC team black managers (the Jets' Herm Edwards and the Knicks Isiaih Washington). Then Francessa said, after the station conducted a live interview with Randolph, said he'd essentially backed down from his earlier comments. What did you hear about this that the fans and/or the media were basing their decision upon his race?

What did Willie say about SNY? I haven't listened to this much, so please do expand upon this.

I don't see him managing the Yankee team right now, since Girardi may continue. He may come back as a bench coach, as did Lee Mazzilli after he'd been canned as the Orioles manager, but Yankee manager, I don't know. It would likely be an interview process matching himself, Yankee 1B coach Tony Pena (http://newyork.yankees.mlb.com/team/coach_staff_bio.jsp?c_id=nyy&coachorstaffid=120370), the former Royals manager (http://www.baseball-reference.com/managers/penato01.shtml) who'd interviewed to replace Joe Torre last winter.

If anything, I believe that Willie was misguided with his comments, and I don't think he's doing this to intentionally get away from the Mets and their fans. He just has never been used to that pressure, since it was always Joe Torre standing before the media, peppering him with questions why he was a whole 2 games out of 1st place in July a few years ago.

Many NYC restaurants have bigger days when the local teams like the Mets, Yanks, Giants, Jets, Knicks and Rangers have great seasons, and newspaper sales are brisk, since sporting goods and other advertisers wish to associate themselves with those winning teams. The TV reporters get to have a slow news day turned into excitement, so being peppered with questions doesn't seem to surprise me, since the media gets a financial benefit when the sports teams do quite well.

Either case, this is Willie Randolph's first time (even if he's been doing this since 2005) whereby he's on the hot seat for a NYC fanbase that only wants to win, and definitely doesn't want to lose. That, I believe, when coupled to the Mets fans being tired of taking a back seat re media coverage (and the back pages of the NY Daily News & NY Post) to one certain other NYC sports team which happens to play in the Bronx somewhere. :D

I say it'll be a long and very interesting season for Willie. I hope that he survives. ;)

[Mattingly]

And the winner is ... oooops .... city is...? NY?
Winner or loser? You've got the city right, I'll say that much! ;)

[NYMets523]

I'm listening to WFAN right now and Mike Francessa is discussing this. He'd mentioned Willie referring to since-fired past NYC team black managers (the Jets' Herm Edwards and the Knicks Isiaih Washington). Then Francessa said, after the station conducted a live interview with Randolph, said he'd essentially backed down from his earlier comments. What did you hear about this that the fans and/or the media were basing their decision upon his race?
Isiah's last name is Thomas just to clarify. For those who don't follow basketball, he cost Madison Square Garden $11.6M in a sexual harassment suit (which is the largest sums to be given in such a case) and drove the Knicks into the ground. Herm Edwards was a mediocre coach who left for Kansas City. He fails to mention Tom Coughlin (a white man) who was constantly bashed last year and is now beloved because he won a Super Bowl (a pretty darn good one, too).

He said the fans were in hiding before 2005. He said recently he thinks it's racial how Torre was complimented for his calm demeanor while Randolph is bashed for his.


What did Willie say about SNY? I haven't listened to this much, so please do expand upon this.
He says SNY doesn't show him rallying his guys in the dugout just standing on the top step with a blank expression and usually just going to him when something bad happens.


If anything, I believe that Willie was misguided with his comments, and I don't think he's doing this to intentionally get away from the Mets and their fans. He just has never been used to that pressure, since it was always Joe Torre standing before the media, peppering him with questions why he was a whole 2 games out of 1st place in July a few years ago.
Willie is a NY guy and he should know better than to pull this crap of bashing the fans and blaming the media for his problems. Before all of this he didn't have many allies. Now, he pretty much has none. Joel Sherman pointed out last week that a manger is best served with allies in the front office, media, clubhouse, and fans. Sherman pointed out he's pretty much 0-4. After all this, I don't see how it helps his case at all.


Either case, this is Willie Randolph's first time (even if he's been doing this since 2005) whereby he's on the hot seat for a NYC fanbase that only wants to win, and definitely doesn't want to lose. That, I believe, when coupled to the Mets fans being tired of taking a back seat re media coverage (and the back pages of the NY Daily News & NY Post) to one certain other NYC sports team which happens to play in the Bronx somewhere. :D

I say it'll be a long and very interesting season for Willie. I hope that he survives. ;)

This isn't about media coverage. The Mets don't want a paranoid manager taking the back pages when the Yankees' pitching woes and sub-500 record are hot topics as well. For the Mets sake and the fans sake, I hope his season only lasts 11 more days.


Why do you feel that Hank Steinbrenner is patient with Joe Girardi, but not with GM Brian Cashman? Would that be due to Cashman's insistence last winter that the Yanks not bust the budget and trade their young guns and Melky Cabrera for Johan Santana, who currently resides in the ace spot for the Mets?

Please elaborate. :)

Cashman's choice of going with the young guys over getting Santana. Also Hank saying that Girardi is playing with the hand he is dealt (shot at Cashman) and he said he thinks Girardi will be a great manager.

[Zagi-CRO]

Winner or loser? You've got the city right, I'll say that much! ;)

I was joking about 'winner'... loser, yes ;)

[bigtime39]

I tend to think that Yankee fans have grown more patient of late for managers, since we've had all of one for the winning years (1996-2000), and kept him through the losing years (2001-07): Joe Torre. No more endless firings and rehirings of Billy Martin, including one infamous George-Billy meltdown at the press conference when Billy was being re-introduced as the Yankee skipper.

The losing years? The losing years?? The LOSING years???
Yankee$ fans are so freakin' spoiled, it boggles the imagination.
The audacity involved in calling a period when you bought a ticket to the crapshoot (playoffs) every single season the losing years...
In Atlanta, they responded to going to the playoffs every single year by getting bored, and not showing up for games. In New York, they respond to going to the playoffs every single year by complaining about the fact that they don't win the World Series every single year.
It is my sincere hope that the LOSING YEARS in NY start with this year, and a lengthy run of last-place finishes awaits.

:rant:

[YankeeFanUK]

i agree with bigtime39..to call the Yanks 01-07 losing years is a bit ridiculous..they went to the Series twice and the p/offs every year...a losing year is finishing below .500...i had the same argument with a Tribe fan who said hes sick of his team losing...they won 90 + in 05 and 07 and were 1 win away from the Series last year YET they call it losing...not sure how it works with you guys but over here in jolly old Blighty a winning season is winning more games than you lose

[Erik Bedard]

That's how it is for the other 29 MLB teams. Not even bandwagon Red Sox fans are that spoiled (not a comment on anybody here in particular at all). Personally, I think it seeps down from the Steinbrenners. They put so much money into the team, they expect to see it be the best every year. But what they don't realize is that in the postseason, the best team rarely wins. Maybe about 25% of the time since the WC was implemented (total guess based on no research whatsoever).

[SamtheBravesFan]

In Atlanta, they responded to going to the playoffs every single year by getting bored, and not showing up for games.


Don't drag Atlanta into this, please. They had a losing year just a couple of years ago.

[bailiff]

Decent run, but Ron Washington's got to go.

[Mattingly]

The losing years? The losing years?? The LOSING years???
Yankee$ fans are so freakin' spoiled, it boggles the imagination.
The audacity involved in calling a period when you bought a ticket to the crapshoot (playoffs) every single season the losing years...
In Atlanta, they responded to going to the playoffs every single year by getting bored, and not showing up for games. In New York, they respond to going to the playoffs every single year by complaining about the fact that they don't win the World Series every single year.
It is my sincere hope that the LOSING YEARS in NY start with this year, and a lengthy run of last-place finishes awaits.

:rant:
Can you uhhhhhhhh, untie me from the stake before the fire is lit? I get a very heavy sunburn when the temperature reaches about 900F or so! :D

I'd misspoken. I'd meant to say that those were the years when the Yanks didn't win the WS. I agree they shouldn't have been called the losing years. I had very little time, so what I wrote wasn't ideal. I had no time to edit, so I ran with what I had.

Now will you please ask tonight's *VISITING TEAM* to cut us a little slack so that we can finally get a win tonight? Who knows, I may even make you an honorary Yankee fan if you're so kind! :D

[bigtime39]

Can you uhhhhhhhh, untie me from the stake before the fire is lit? I get a very heavy sunburn when the temperature reaches about 900F or so! :D

I'd misspoken. I'd meant to say that those were the years when the Yanks didn't win the WS. I agree they shouldn't have been called the losing years. I had very little time, so what I wrote wasn't ideal. I had no time to edit, so I ran with what I had.

Now will you please ask tonight's *VISITING TEAM* to cut us a little slack so that we can finally get a win tonight? Who knows, I may even make you an honorary Yankee fan if you're so kind! :D

None whatsoever. The only bad thing about last night was that I was in class, and unable to see it. Your guys have pretty much stunk the joint up against lefties this season, and we're about to send two up against you. And, since I'll be on the softball field, and unable to see tonight's game as well, you know the Orioles are going to win.

[Colorado Express]

I say that the race is on between Randolph and Black, with Randolph getting the nod.

[Mattingly]

None whatsoever. The only bad thing about last night was that I was in class, and unable to see it. Your guys have pretty much stunk the joint up against lefties this season, and we're about to send two up against you. And, since I'll be on the softball field, and unable to see tonight's game as well, you know the Orioles are going to win.
Well, it's a little small, but you'll have to try it on for size, and it's of your fave player, too! :p



In the meanwhile, who do you think will be fired first? Do you think they'll be merely fired, forced to walk the plank, run out of town, or have a large vat of boiling oil spilled upon them? :D ;) :p

I'm hoping that Willie Randolph can ride this one out, but the double header results of yesterday didn't exactly make them look good.

[Baseball Guru]

I say that the race is on between Randolph and Black, with Randolph getting the nod.

Uh oh... You pulled the race card and said black;)


This is exactly what Willie was talking about:laugh


I think Willie may have the inside track:clapping

[Mattingly]

Decent run, but Ron Washington's got to go.
Is it the team that's bad, or is the manager not doing anything to stop the slide? Are injuries the reason why they're 20-27 and 6.5 GB right now? Or just lackluster efforts?

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/standings

They're 5-5 the last 10, so they're treading water about now.

I say that the race is on between Randolph and Black, with Randolph getting the nod.
Why Randolph and not Black of the Padres? Any particular reason why?

[NYMets523]

I'm hoping that Willie Randolph can ride this one out, but the double header results of yesterday didn't exactly make them look good.

Why? He's incapable of winning and has become a distraction and burden for the team.

[milladrive]

LOL @ Mattingly & Guru. :laugh

[milladrive]

I don't know who will be the first to be fired, but I wouldn't be shocked if Leyland quit.

lol.......

[Colorado Express]

Why Randolph and not Black of the Padres? Any particular reason why?

I say Randolph because the Mets are a team loaded with talent, they traded for Santana, I presume with the thought that they would make a WS run, collapsed at the end of last season and have struggled to be a .500 team this season. I assume that the expectations are a bit higher for the Mets than the Padres this season.

[AutographCollector]

Why Randolph and not Black of the Padres? Any particular reason why?

Brad,
I know that you weren't asking me. But if I may... Randolph's team on paper (no offense Padre fans) is 100 times better than San Diego's. Before ST and once we signed Johan. It was supposed to be all uphill from there. Santana has kept his bargain of the deal thus far. What is he? 6-2? Heck, that's still good in my book!

Randolph needs to light a fire under himself and under some of the players too. Remember, a manager is just that. He is supposed to manage, guide, teach, and whatever most importantly make SMART decisions that will win ballgames. Losing 3 straight thus far to Atlanta is just not feasible. IF we get swept by Colorado in the next series. Willie is all but done. Who will be next in line? I don't know. Howard Johnson? Jerry Manual? (Mets bench coach, and former manager of the ChiSox) It's just a sad day in Mets land right now. :sleepy:

[Mattingly]

Why? He's incapable of winning and has become a distraction and burden for the team.
Mostly the homer Yankee fan in me who wants our guys to do good when they manage. I'd wished the same for ex-Mets player Lee Mazzilli when he went from 1B coach to Baltimore manager.

After listening to WFAN on Tuesday, and a few more times briefly around midnight, it seems that Mets fans aren't interested in the racial aspect, as they've all said he's nothing but a class act. However, the fans want to win games, and Willie doesn't seem to be doing that right now. It's as if the team is disjointed with people going in different directions.

This is unfortunate, since he'd been around Joe Torre so long. While I'm not a big fan of Torre's management skills, at least his people skills and his media skills were always excellent. He would have to make endless excuses for losses, especially if the Red Sox had a winning weekend, but at least he faced up to them.

Willie is in (perhaps) unchartered territory, since he's a rookie manager in the biggest media market of them all, at least on the east coast. How long is he signed for, and who do you think will replace him if the chopping block comes around?

[Imgran]

Don't rule out Gibbons of the Blue Jays. That's a very potent team that he's losing with, and a pretty expensive one to boot. That plus repeated personality clashes with players (Shea Hillenbrand, Ted Lilly, Frank Thomas) is as good a ticket out of your situation as you need to write.

[Mattingly]

Brad,
I know that you weren't asking me. But if I may... Randolph's team on paper (no offense Padre fans) is 100 times better than San Diego's. Before ST and once we signed Johan. It was supposed to be all uphill from there. Santana has kept his bargain of the deal thus far. What is he? 6-2? Heck, that's still good in my book!

Randolph needs to light a fire under himself and under some of the players too. Remember, a manager is just that. He is supposed to manage, guide, teach, and whatever most importantly make SMART decisions that will win ballgames. Losing 3 straight thus far to Atlanta is just not feasible. IF we get swept by Colorado in the next series. Willie is all but done. Who will be next in line? I don't know. Howard Johnson? Jerry Manual? (Mets bench coach, and former manager of the ChiSox) It's just a sad day in Mets land right now. :sleepy:
I'm not familiar with the Padres, but will agree that the Mets on paper are a good team. I think that Delgado and Beltran have struggled a bit, but which team doesn't have guys struggling in one way or the next?

Re Johan Santana, was he the missing piece of the puzzle that would get them to the 2008 playoffs? You know, like how the Yanks signed Reggie Jackson for the 1977 season, after being swept by the Big Red Machine of Morgan, Bench, Rose, et al? Or was the signing to make them a contender from a "pretty good" ball club?

I think it's more that Atlanta is a division rival than just another NL team which makes this 3-game sweep bad (similar to those losses vs the Phillies last September.

I think before last night's win, the Yanks lost about 6 of 7 (or 5 of 6), so I can understand the frustration. Still, you're 3.5 GB and are .500, while we're 7.5 GB and are 4 games <.500. Still, I feel for what you're saying.

I remember when Willie joined the Mets, he'd taken Jose Reyes as his personal pupil, telling him how he'd be a great SS and explained some of the fundamentals of the game to him. Does he still do that? Have you heard of any rapport from the players about how they feel about him? I'm talking about both the young guys like Reyes and Wright, as well as the vets like Wagner and Beltran. Any reaction about how their respect level of him is, or what they feel he brings to the team everyday?

I think that it would take being about 6-7 games back and very dismal losses, ones in which the team looked like they were mailing it in, before Randolph's fate is sealed, and the question isn't "if", but moreso, "when". Of course, if the Mets teeter and totter, get all but blown out by the Rox, then you may edge closer to Willie's final days. A good showing by the boys may delay things at least.

I have no idea who would replace him. I think that HoJo is a Mets Minor League manager. Was he being actively recruited to take over? Any rumblings from Metsville USA about who was "next in line" to the throne (or firing line, depending upon one's perspective)?

Take care, pal. :)

[Mattingly]

LOL @ Mattingly & Guru. :laugh
Hey, we are duly sworn to make things as interesting as we possibly can for you folks here! :D

We've been practicing our vintage schtick for some time now, too! ;) :p

[DownUnderDodger]

I am probably too far away from the action to say anything with authority, however I chose Randolph purely on the form of the Mets at the moment against the obvious expectations of the team, especially after the meltdown last year.
Am I correct in thinking that Girardi is in the prcess of somewhat of a rebuild at the Yankees, which should give him just a little extra rope??

[Mattingly]

I am probably too far away from the action to say anything with authority, however I chose Randolph purely on the form of the Mets at the moment against the obvious expectations of the team, especially after the meltdown last year.
Am I correct in thinking that Girardi is in the prcess of somewhat of a rebuild at the Yankees, which should give him just a little extra rope??
I've heard that the Sep 2007 meltdown was the primary reason that Randolph was on the hot seat. Had he been a true leader, as some have said, his troops would've gotten some more wins against the Phillies, rather than squandering that lead. Many fans resented this. After how much they could've tasted the Big Dance in Oct 2006, I believe the taste to win was still fresh in their mouths and they wanted another big fat bite! :D

The recent 4-game sweep against rival Atlanta hasn't done Willie Randolph any favors. Like AC said a few replies above, he has to do well against the Rox. I wouldn't say that would be his immediate undoing, but he has to pick up steam, stop treading water with the "two steps forward, two steps back" thing.

I can't say that Girardi is in any kind of a "rebuild", and I've often considered a full "rebuild" to be where a team presumes it won't make the playoffs, so just tries playing as well as it can, doesn't acquire any expensive big names, but focuses a lot on nurturing their younger farm players and young MLB guys.

I believe that Girardi, who, unlike Randolph, is in the first year as his team's skipper, is aided by having guys like the highly rated Phil Hughes, recently sent down, and who's expected to do well upon returning. He also has Darrell Rasner who's done quite well for us, and Ian Kennedy, who had a previously disastrous April and early May, just had a 6-inning, 1-run game for us on Thursday. Thus, even though the Yanks are looking worse in the standings and number of games back, at least there's hope. With a strong Rasner, Kennedy, Hughes, Wang, Pettitte and Moose, there will be hope (sometimes for the hopeless) in Yankeeville. :D ;) :p

If Randolph can get similar performances out of Maine, Pelfrey, Perez, Santana and whoever else pitches for them, then he's in good shape. However, if he continues going two steps forward, two steps back, then his days are numbered. Either case, when he was hired, the Wilpons expected a winning team. They didn't acquire the best pitcher in baseball--Johan Santana--to tread water like this. If they can get back to the winning ways of 2006 and 2007 (up until early September of '07), then his job should be safe.

If he can stop apologizing and get his team to start winning, then there will be less reason for anyone to consider his replacement, since I don't even know if there is an immediately likely candidate right now. Like AC said a few posts above, he has to mentor, set examples and show dedication to his team. They in turn have to play up to their potential, so it's something that all sides have to do, since the manager isn't expected to do it all by himself.

[NYMets523]

The recent 4-game sweep against rival Atlanta hasn't done Willie Randolph any favors. Like AC said a few replies above, he has to do well against the Rox. I wouldn't say that would be his immediate undoing, but he has to pick up steam, stop treading water with the "two steps forward, two steps back" thing.
This past series was his undoing. The only reason he's still around is because A) They are on the road (believe me, if this was at home, he'd be fired today) and B) The only thing keeping him around is the lack of a great manager sitting at home.

It's not "two steps forward, two steps back", it's "one step forward, four steps back".


If Randolph can get similar performances out of Maine, Pelfrey, Perez, Santana and whoever else pitches for them, then he's in good shape. However, if he continues going two steps forward, two steps back, then his days are numbered. Either case, when he was hired, the Wilpons expected a winning team. They didn't acquire the best pitcher in baseball--Johan Santana--to tread water like this. If they can get back to the winning ways of 2006 and 2007 (up until early September of '07), then his job should be safe.
Their 2007 was just April and May. After that they were a 500 team.

[Seattle1]

Please let it be McLaren.

:ughh

[Mattingly]

This past series was his undoing. The only reason he's still around is because A) They are on the road (believe me, if this was at home, he'd be fired today) and B) The only thing keeping him around is the lack of a great manager sitting at home.
It was his undoing both because it was a division rival, and because it was a 4-game sweep? I guess that brings back memories of losing vs the Phillies last September, I guess. I think they'd then lost a 4-gamer in Philly also.

It's not "two steps forward, two steps back", it's "one step forward, four steps back".
You mean as far as steps forward and backwards re wins or something else? Enthusiasm (or lack thereof) that the fans have? I'm asking you to spell out what the steps forwards and backwards are in this case, if you don't mind.

Their 2007 was just April and May. After that they were a 500 team.
You know, I think that this was accurate. I can't say for a fact, since I haven't checked, but I do believe that they were totally unstoppable in April and May '07. It seemed like how Manny Ramirez kept getting hit after hit in April 2001. The man was always on base, hitting .400 that April, then ended up with a .300 BA at the end of the season.

Last thing: how much of an influence do you consider WFAN call-in radio? I'm unsure if you're in the NYC metro area or not, since many NYers have moved to Florida. However, their fans do frequently call into the show to express their displeasure at both the team and Willie Randolph. That station also does play-by-play with the Knicks and NHL Rangers, for those outside of the NYC area.

[Mattingly]

Please let it be McLaren.

:ughh
When you have players like Erik Bedard and Ichiro Suzuki, I not only see a firing in the near future, I see a fire sale. I think that team would do best to get rid of their big stars the same way that the Marlins did a few years ago, when Beckett, Delgado and others were traded away, and last winter, when Cabrera and Willis were also traded.

[Urbanshocker13]

When you have players like Erik Bedard and Ichiro Suzuki, I not only see a firing in the near future, I see a fire sale. I think that team would do best to get rid of their big stars the same way that the Marlins did a few years ago, when Beckett, Delgado and others were traded away, and last winter, when Cabrera and Willis were also traded.

Do you see them tradeing Ichiro after they inked him to that big deal?

[Erik Bedard]

I posed the same question in the M's forum. They (the regulars of that forum) said that it would be best for the team, but not what they'll do. Kenji Johjima, though, may be one of the first to go. Word is that 40% of the M's rotation refuses to pitch to him (Bedard and Washburn), and the other three just don't like to. Plus he's not hitting.

[mojorisin71]

i agree with bigtime39..to call the Yanks 01-07 losing years is a bit ridiculous..they went to the Series twice and the p/offs every year...a losing year is finishing below .500...i had the same argument with a Tribe fan who said hes sick of his team losing...they won 90 + in 05 and 07 and were 1 win away from the Series last year YET they call it losing...not sure how it works with you guys but over here in jolly old Blighty a winning season is winning more games than you lose

Not winning a World Series in 60 years qualifies as losing...

[mojorisin71]

I'm not familiar with the Padres, but will agree that the Mets on paper are a good team. I think that Delgado and Beltran have struggled a bit, but which team doesn't have guys struggling in one way or the next?

The Padres had a one-two-three punch of Peavy, Young, and Maddux at the start of the year, and now two of the three are on the DL. They have no offense outside of Adrian Gonzalez, and cut Jim Edmonds, who was hitting a robust .173. Their pitching staff was supposed to carry them, but they're not doing their job, and Bud Black (a pitcher himself) should be on the hot seat in San Diego.

[Seattle1]

When you have players like Erik Bedard and Ichiro Suzuki, I not only see a firing in the near future, I see a fire sale. I think that team would do best to get rid of their big stars the same way that the Marlins did a few years ago, when Beckett, Delgado and others were traded away, and last winter, when Cabrera and Willis were also traded.

Well, in my mind Ichiro for one is untouchable in that regard, and rightfully so. But otherwise I'm all for some serious shockwaves in the Mariner organization at this point, in all areas.

[Mattingly]

Do you see them tradeing Ichiro after they inked him to that big deal?
I think they should trade all of their big-earning players. My feeling is that if a team isn't winning, they can certainly do so for less. Look at Baltimore after they traded away Bedard and Tejada in the same winter. Aren't they winning now, at least relatively speaking?

Despite Ichiro Suzuki (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?playerId=4570)'s so-called poor season, there are still lots of teams who could use a leadoff batter who steals bases and plays great defense. Does that mean I'd want him as a Yankee? I sure would, but I have no idea if we'd have a good package for him that Seattle would accept. His .289 BA and .353 OBP aren't that great, but despite his slip and dropping the caught ball yesterday, his defense is still well-known.

Either case, I don't see why a team needs big stars when they're failing. I've said this before, but some teams don't like listening. All those times the Blue Jays were the perennial 3rd or 4th place team, you think they needed Carlos Delgado at 1B? If he didn't have that no-trade clause, why wouldn't it have made sense to trade him? That's exactly what Florida did when they didn't get their bright shiny new municipally-funded stadium from Miami.

Back to the main topic:

Why in the world is a team that is all of *TWO GAMES BELOW .500* looking to fire their manager? Despite all the media-driven hoopla, why do you need to fire Randolph for that? Billy Wagner fails, blows the 1-run save, so you fire him? He didn't use Aaron Heilman until the 12th inning (after having used Wagner for 2 innings and Sanchez for an inning), and lo and behold, he sees 4 players, allows no runs until a GWH in the 13th. Is that Willie Randolph's fault? Who else was he supposed to use?

If you look at the standings, there are *SEVEN* NL teams with a worse record than the Mets, and that includes the Nats in the East, 1/2 of the Central (3 out of 6 teams) and 3/5ths of the West.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/standings

Meanwhile, two AL East teams--Red Sox (31-20) and the Rays (28-20)--have a better record than the top NL East team, the Fish (27-20). This while the Yanks sit dead last, the same 2 below .500 as them, this after a 3-game winning streak, and them after a 5-game losing streak. Yet they want their manager fired and we're both 2 below .500. However, we stand 6.5 GB of our longest-standing archrival (since 1903), the Boston Red Sox, while they stand 4.5 GB of a team that didn't exist until 1993.

I think that Mets fans have a right to be upset over losing, but look at how well (or in fact, how poorly) other teams have fared of late. Yes, it's wonderful to win every single year. Don't they think I know this? However, you can't win every single month, and some months will be worse than others.

Would it be great for them to be winning? Of course it would, but if the players fail, what can the manager do? Would they be calling him a genius if it was Delgado or Wright who got the GWH instead of Matt Holiday? Either case, I've seen Joe Torre get hammered far worse in the media for being 2 GB of Boston, and this was in July not May. However, he never got fired. This before and after the 2004 ALCS.

Hopefully, Mets fans can be patient, but I'm not sure if that'll happen. Life's not perfect, and neither's baseball is all I'll say for now.

[Mattingly]

Well, in my mind Ichiro for one is untouchable in that regard, and rightfully so. But otherwise I'm all for some serious shockwaves in the Mariner organization at this point, in all areas.
I understand what you're saying. I'd heard the exact same thing thing a few years back (2001 or so) when I'd told Mets fans that they should trade Mike Piazza. They almost universally laughed in my face, calling me a Yankee fanboy and saying how much better Piazza was offensively than Posada. I said that wasn't my point.

In either case, do you need a symbolic player--even if he represents a lot for the team--if they are not winning with that player? If I had Walter Johnson pitching, Babe Ruth in RF and Johnny Bench behind the plate, if I wasn't winning, I'd see how many productive farm systems I could get the better off without blinking.

I can see for financial reasons why you'd keep those guys. You could endless "media days" or player game days. I'm sure that Suzuki has meant a lot to whatever Asian community is in the Seattle area. However, are they winning with him? What can they get for him? Is it worth it to keep him or to trade him?

To me, they should rebuild. If you're losing that badly, if you want to fire your manager, fine. Bring on someone else. Does the next person become the spark plug (aka, missing piece) that your team lacked? Or does he become the next scapegoat?

If you trade the players for some fresh young defensive arms and a pitcher or two, then I believe you have a chance to improve the team. Unless you have someone lined who's a good candidate, I say to keep the manager unless the players threaten to revolt.

Speaking of which, something like this just happened with Seattle, since two guys in the rotation weren't thrilled with the starting catcher.

Johjima to lose additional playing time (http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/playerbreakingnews.asp?sport=MLB&id=4368&line=238344&spln=1)

[Mattingly]

Doesn't anyone respect managers these days? I thought it was an unspoken "no-no" not to advertise your availability for a managerial job if the guy wasn't yet fired. I must've missed that memo.

Gary Carter would love to take Shea reins as Mets manager (http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/mets/2008/05/23/2008-05-23_gary_carter_would_love_to_take_shea_rein.html)

The Padres had a one-two-three punch of Peavy, Young, and Maddux at the start of the year, and now two of the three are on the DL. They have no offense outside of Adrian Gonzalez, and cut Jim Edmonds, who was hitting a robust .173. Their pitching staff was supposed to carry them, but they're not doing their job, and Bud Black (a pitcher himself) should be on the hot seat in San Diego.
Wow. That's just incredible. After having checked the standings, I've decided to give the Padres my dubious WTIB Award: Worst Team in Baseball. Not exactly a mantle to be hung on the wall unless your wall is really a very bare chipped paint color with cracks on said wall at the moment.

When you share the same 3-7 in the last 10 games like a few other teams and are even .050 below Motown in Win %, I figure that's pretty bad. However, why isn't he making front-page news but Willie Randolph's team, at 2 games below .500, is making headlines? Could be the big NYC media market, but ESPN is in Bristol, CT, which happens to be in the NY/NJ/CT tri-state area.

Either case, I'd consider it a sad event if a team fires a player when they're not being beaten up by every team out there the way Seattle is. I mean the Yanks needed Seattle to roll into town the way they were playing. After taking 2 of 3 from the O's, that win last night (13-2) was what was needed.

The Mets need the Rox also, since along with Seattle and San Diego, the Rox are the only sub-.400 teams in the bigs right now. However they need to *BEAT* that team, and they can still do so on Saturday and Sunday.

[Urbanshocker13]

I don't know if Ichiro has a No-Trade in his contract or not, you would think he would. Plus you wouldn't think they would trade him because he is the face of the team, and even without winning is a great marketing tool.

The Mets aren't really that bad off, but because of last year it's just made allot worst. I don't think it really al willie's fault, the biggest problem that people have with this team is the attitude and I think that's more to do with some players and not really Willie.Willie is a good guy and a good baseball man but the manager always gets the blame in cases like this. I think when a team acts the way the Mets have people want a Manager that's going to scream at the team and get them going, show some passion. Willie is more calming as a manager. Is the Manager the reason for how the Mets been since Last Year? Maybe a little but I think it comes down to the players. Managers pay the price for players acting like the Mets have, might not be fair all the time but thats the way it is. It seems like now that we will soon know if a new manager will help the Mets or not. Right or Wrong looks mor and more like Willie will the first skipper to be gone this year.

[Mattingly]

Pedro Martinez. How come his name isn't mentioned in this thread? Didn't the Mets give him the 4th year, the very 4th year which Boston refused to give him? They paid him $52m over 4 seasons, didn't they?

If Pedro were pitching right now, I believe he would have around 7 wins. If Matsuzaka can be 8-0 due to high run support, why wouldn't Pedro be winning games right now? With the acquisition of Johan Santana, it was expected to be a team of co-aces, with Santana expected to be the leader of the pack.

I've heard that the owners (the Wilpons) want to make the decision and meet with Randolph, despite Omar Minaya having expressed support for Willie. However, the players have to come in not hurt and be available to play. Once your second ace is out, that makes things pretty bad.

They're helped by being in weaker league than the AL East, so they're less far behind than the Yankees. I say that if Willie Randolph is the first to get fired, then he's not doing any worse than the Yanks currently are, and Torre wasn't fired in 2005 after the 2004 ALCS debacle.

If they get a new manager, will that guy put them into 1st or 2nd place? Will the saves not be blown, will they stop pitching Aaron Heilman? Will the GWH be knocked in due to better inspiration? I'll have to see it to believe it.

[Seattle1]

I don't know if Ichiro has a No-Trade in his contract or not, you would think he would. Plus you wouldn't think they would trade him because he is the face of the team, and even without winning is a great marketing tool.

Plus you don't trade him because he is a great baseball player. If you want to have a good baseball team, what you will want is good baseball players on your team. It's really very simple and logical. Trading Ichiro would be sort of akin to the Seahawks trading Steve Largent at the height of his career.

:twocents:

[Mattingly]

Plus you don't trade him because he is a great baseball player. If you want to have a good baseball team, what you will want is good baseball players on your team. It's really very simple and logical. Trading Ichiro would be sort of akin to the Seahawks trading Steve Largent at the height of his career.

:twocents:
Well, Ichiro Suzuki isn't quite at the height of his career, but I catch your drift about not trading away your best player. He is still a very marketable player and an iconic type of guy, as far as I'm concerned.

Either case, Seattle is 18-31 (13 below .500) while the Mets are 22-24. Why in the world would Willie Randolph be the first to be fired? If no teams were below .500, then we wouldn't have any baseball, since in order for one team to be above .500, another obviously has to be below this. Should they all fire their managers for being 2 games back?

Only in the media circus they call NYC, that's where. :o :(

[NYMets523]

Pedro Martinez. How come his name isn't mentioned in this thread? Didn't the Mets give him the 4th year, the very 4th year which Boston refused to give him? They paid him $52m over 4 seasons, didn't they?
Pedro was a landmark signing. Without him, the FAs that have come here wouldn't be here. Unfortunately he's been injured but the Mets knew what they were getting.


If Pedro were pitching right now, I believe he would have around 7 wins. If Matsuzaka can be 8-0 due to high run support, why wouldn't Pedro be winning games right now?
I'll have some of what you're smoking.


I've heard that the owners (the Wilpons) want to make the decision and meet with Randolph, despite Omar Minaya having expressed support for Willie. However, the players have to come in not hurt and be available to play. Once your second ace is out, that makes things pretty bad.
Haven't heard the Wilpons want to meet with Willie. Pedro is not the second ace.


They're helped by being in weaker league than the AL East, so they're less far behind than the Yankees. I say that if Willie Randolph is the first to get fired, then he's not doing any worse than the Yanks currently are, and Torre wasn't fired in 2005 after the 2004 ALCS debacle.
Torre wasn't fired because he won 10 division titles, 2 AL pennants, and 4 World Series. Willie is in a completely different situation than Torre was last year and Girardi is this year.


If they get a new manager, will that guy put them into 1st or 2nd place? Will the saves not be blown, will they stop pitching Aaron Heilman? Will the GWH be knocked in due to better inspiration? I'll have to see it to believe it.
The manager may not change that. But I'm sure you'll see fewer guys getting picked off, cut-off men being missed, and just poor judgment in the field.

[Seattle1]

Either case, Seattle is 18-31 (13 below .500) while the Mets are 22-24. Why in the world would Willie Randolph be the first to be fired?


Yeah why McLaren has not been let go yet I can't understand. I am starting to lose my patience.

[Mattingly]

Pedro was a landmark signing. Without him, the FAs that have come here wouldn't be here. Unfortunately he's been injured but the Mets knew what they were getting.
I realize that he was a big signing for the Mets. After Piazza wasn't able to encourage any other big names to join him, despite many efforts on his part, Pedro was the best choice. I'll agree they knew what they were getting.

I'll have some of what you're smoking.
So how many wins would you have expected a healthy Pedro to have this season?

Haven't heard the Wilpons want to meet with Willie. Pedro is not the second ace.
I think I'd read about the Wilpons wanting to meet Randolph soon. It could've been in the Daily News, but I can't remember the exact source. I'd heard that the decision upon him would be made by them, not Minaya.

If Pedro wasn't supposed to be the second ace, was he expected to be the #2 or #3 pitcher? He'd at least said this in some interview, saying that they were both aces. I already knew that he was past his prime, especially being of the smaller frame and the power pitching. I could've scaled back on that comment, I'll admit.

Torre wasn't fired because he won 10 division titles, 2 AL pennants, and 4 World Series. Willie is in a completely different situation than Torre was last year and Girardi is this year.
Good point about Torre. This was also Willie's first managerial job, since he'd neither managed in the bigs, nor even in the Minors. He'd been the 3B coach for many years until being promoted to bench coach. I think he was making almost $500k as a coach, which is about what some MLB managers make. Talk about being stuck between a rock and a hard place, no wiggle room.

The manager may not change that. But I'm sure you'll see fewer guys getting picked off, cut-off men being missed, and just poor judgment in the field.
Who did you have in mind who would instill such essential baseball play, and why do you feel that way about him?

Yes, I believe that the Mets are playing below their potential. However, what do you believe their potential should be at this point in the season re W-L?

Also, your team is 2 games below .500. Is that something you fire a manager for?

[Mattingly]

Yeah why McLaren has not been let go yet I can't understand. I am starting to lose my patience.
I don't know what the media market is like in Seattle, since other than Microsoft, Nintendo and Starbucks, I have no idea what they're like, and the Seattle Intelligencer would be my only news source down there.

However, if any team had been 18-31 in NYC, that manager's keeping his job would be an after-thought, and the news media (even the "nice" reporters) would tarring and feathering him right now. Regis Philbin and Dave Letterman are both Yankee fans, so from morning to night, we'd be hearing it daily. The media circus would come with all 3 rings, and a crazy sideshow just for laughs.

[NYMets523]

I realize that he was a big signing for the Mets. After Piazza wasn't able to encourage any other big names to join him, despite many efforts on his part, Pedro was the best choice. I'll agree they knew what they were getting.
He wasn't a bad signing.


So how many wins would you have expected a healthy Pedro to have this season?
He'd probably have something like a 4-2 record. The Mets' offense is inconsistent and the bullpen is a crapshoot.


I think I'd read about the Wilpons wanting to meet Randolph soon. It could've been in the Daily News, but I can't remember the exact source. I'd heard that the decision upon him would be made by them, not Minaya.
They probably had the ultimate say from the beginning.


If Pedro wasn't supposed to be the second ace, was he expected to be the #2 or #3 pitcher? He'd at least said this in some interview, saying that they were both aces. I already knew that he was past his prime, especially being of the smaller frame and the power pitching. I could've scaled back on that comment, I'll admit.
He would be the #2. I think Maine is (or at least will be) the "second ace".


Who did you have in mind who would instill such essential baseball play, and why do you feel that way about him?
Some managerial candidates: Ken Oberkfell, Lee Mazzilli, Pete Mackanin, Frank Robinson, Gary Carter (though he shot himself in the foot with his recent comments (http://www.metsblog.com/2008/05/23/quote-gary-carter-is-available))


Yes, I believe that the Mets are playing below their potential. However, what do you believe their potential should be at this point in the season re W-L?
25-21


Also, your team is 2 games below .500. Is that something you fire a manager for?
It's not just the record. They've constantly been "win 3, lose 3. win 4, lose 3, win 5, lose 3" all year (and last year). They've played a lot of games where they look lost in the field with mental mistakes. When they're down, they rarely ever come back. They have a brief stretch where people say "This is where they turn it on" only to go 1-3 or 2-5 after. They blew their WS chance by losing to a 83-win team. They blew a 7-game lead with 17 to go last year. It didn't help that Willie kept saying stuff like "this makes the champagne taste sweeter" or "it's one game, we'll turn the page and come back tomorrow". Also, Willie blamed SNY for his stoic image and thinks it's racial how his calm demeanor is a negative while Torre's was a positive.

[Mattingly]

He wasn't a bad signing.
If you're saying he wasn't a bad signing (as in pretty good, but not great), is that from a perspective of him solely as a player and what he as a pitcher has done for the team? Is that his spirit, in that he makes clown faces and cheers up the Shea crowd, which he definitely has done? Or are you referring to his leading the way for other big stars there, such as Beltran, Delgado, Santana, etc? It's a 3-headed coin from what I see, and those are the 3 heads I've seen from Pedro.

He'd probably have something like a 4-2 record. The Mets' offense is inconsistent and the bullpen is a crapshoot.
So this was due to the absence of Duaner Sanchez at the beginning of the season, and how many games Aaron Heilman has blown? So 7 wins was very unlikely, but 4 would be more reasonable?

They probably had the ultimate say from the beginning.
Always turns out that way, but from what I'd heard, they didn't put the decision-making in Minaya's hands, and that they were handling this themselves. We'll see, since there are too many articles about this. Here's one from Saturday's Newark Star-Ledger:

Willie prepared for talk (http://www.nj.com/mets/index.ssf/2008/05/willie_prepared_for_talk.html)

He would be the #2. I think Maine is (or at least will be) the "second ace".
When do you believe that John Maine will be the second ace? What do you consider the #2, 3, 4 and 5 pitchers are right now?

Some managerial candidates: Ken Oberkfell, Lee Mazzilli, Pete Mackanin, Frank Robinson, Gary Carter (though he shot himself in the foot with his recent comments (http://www.metsblog.com/2008/05/23/quote-gary-carter-is-available))
I haven't read that, but I'd quoted earlier where Carter stated he would love the job. Reminded me of when Torre talked about the LAD job before the manager was even fired. I felt it was in poor taste, but Torre got the job because the team was slumping and he'd gotten a big name in the Bronx.

This article shows who's being mentioned, and you can download a PDF file which lists the candidates. Either get Adobe Acrobat Reader from www.adobe.com or your browser should be able to read it.

Who's in line for Willie's job? (http://www.nj.com/mets/index.ssf/2008/05/whos_in_line_for_willies_job.html)

Here's the Adobe Acrobat PDF file: Next in Line? (http://blog.nj.com/mets_main/2008/05/metscover.pdf)

25-21
This would make the Mets a .543 Win% team, and in 3rd place right now. That would make you happy being 4 above .500? I would've felt that 6+ above .500 would've been better, but that's just me. Either case, it's the difference between 3rd and 4th place. Which other 4th place team wants their manager fired?

It's not just the record. They've constantly been "win 3, lose 3. win 4, lose 3, win 5, lose 3" all year (and last year). They've played a lot of games where they look lost in the field with mental mistakes. When they're down, they rarely ever come back. They have a brief stretch where people say "This is where they turn it on" only to go 1-3 or 2-5 after. They blew their WS chance by losing to a 83-win team. They blew a 7-game lead with 17 to go last year. It didn't help that Willie kept saying stuff like "this makes the champagne taste sweeter" or "it's one game, we'll turn the page and come back tomorrow". Also, Willie blamed SNY for his stoic image and thinks it's racial how his calm demeanor is a negative while Torre's was a positive.
You're sounding like a Yankee fan in complaining about the win 3, lose 2 thing, since we've had that all season. That's why some teams (like yours and mine) are below .500 in the first place.

Yes, they lose in Sep '06 to an 83-win Cards team. Didn't that team win the WS, beating the team the Yanks lost to, which was Motown? The Cards are still a great team. Willie didn't strike out with RISP, it was Carlos Beltran who looked at the pitch but didn't get the call. That reliever threw the same dicey pitch he'd thrown earlier in the count. What did Willie Randolph do that would've made him different had Beltran dropped a 2-run single into Shea's CF?

That 7-game lead with 17 games to go was pretty bad. I don't know if guys slacked off or what, but that dancing around in front of everyone is what inspired the Marlins, who had no chance of making it (despite earlier September hopes for the WC) to put up D-Train on short rest against Glavine. Teams don't put up their ace on short rest if they have no personal possible gain unless they're simply trying to prevent a team from advancing, and the message was quite obvious, at least to myself: stop the Mets and their smugness (from the players, not the fans).

As to Willie's statement about the champagne tasting sweeter, the champagne isn't guaranteed unless you happen to visit a liquor store. Kind of like having to take a bus to Cooperstown, rather than being enshrined: it's not automatic. Perhaps he needs a class in PR or something. He's never had to face the press before, since he was always a coach. Unlike Lee Mazzilli, who was the Yanks' 1B coach when Willie was the 3B coach here (and an SNY broadcaster now), Maz' Orioles weren't ever in the media spotlight like the Mets were. Therefore, any erroneous statements on Willie's part would be magnified. Play with fire, you get burned. Play with a bigger fire, you can get burned even more, I figure.

I've never seen Willie as anything but a cautious person. I don't see that as being racial, and I'm wondering why the heck he's even worrying about how he appears on camera. Unless he's modelling for some sports ad or a magazine cover, why would he even worry about that? Other than when he'd done a Subway sandwich radio ad with Torre a few years back, he had no reason, to me, to worry about his image. He's there to manage. You think that Piniella worries how he appears on camera during his infamous dirt-throwing, cap-kicking rants? Just manage and that's all I'll say.

As to Torre, he's been asleep at the wheel in more ways than one. In fact, when he got here, he was called "Clueless Joe" on the headlines, due to his losing record (http://www.baseball-reference.com/managers/torrejo01.shtml) for the Mets, Braves and Cards prior to being hired by the Yanks. Not so with Willie, since he was a rookie. Willie also didn't have an owner who was legendary for having fired managers, with Billy Martin being the name and face of that era.

As often as Big Stein argued with Torre, telling him how to manage the team, strongly criticizing and belittling him in the media, can you name any time that the Wilpons have ever done this to Willie?

I don't consider Torre's demeanor a good thing. As I've said in the Yankee forum, Joe Torre was asleep at the wheel a few times. Quite a few times, I'd hoped he'd asked the non-hitting guy to try for a walk, yet he had the guy go up and get the 2nd out, meaning we'd need a hit to score someone from 3B. A walk would've meant one less out and 1 more chance to keep the rally going, and sometimes advancing the other runner(s). There were also many mismanagements of the bullpen, such as overusing Scott Proctor and underusing guys who we only remembered were even on the team when it was a blowout (often against us) and he'd have no choice but to go to that guy. Yet someone is worried about facial expressions?

The term "Torre's guys" was infamous, since it meant you were used until your arm fell off, and if you weren't on his list of preferred guys, you lived in a dungeon somewhere in the bullpen, and he'd rarely call you. It was either being used endlessly or very infrequently and only when necessary. That was one of Torre's main faults, in my opinion, and anything about his or any other manager's facial expressions caught on camera won't change this.

I have no idea how Torre's sad puppy dog eyes were a positive. I'd only say that I wasn't a fan of this. His being more pro-active would've helped. When Joe Girardi came out the other day and argued bitterly argued that a strikeout on Giambi, based upon an *INSIDE PITCH* hitting Giambi's bat and being caught by the Orioles' catcher, which was pointed out to the HP ump by said catcher, that fired up the team. Girardi pulled a bombastic thing of throwing dirt, kicking his cap twice, and yes indeed, he was tossed outta there by the ump. *THAT* is what I like to see from the Yankee manager. Being fired up and in the game. Willie should try that sometime. Guess what? Robinson Cano hit the GWH in the tied game, and this after the Yanks weren't hitting a lick for awhile (the pitchers were winning us games, not the bats).

Even for players, I remember around 2004 when Jeter went into the stands and bloodied up his face catching a foul ball in the stands along 3B. This to make sure the Red Sox wouldn't score. Some Red Sox fans wondered why Nomah was sitting there on the bench, despite his scheduled day off. They wanted to know why their guy wasn't going out there to not be shown up and at least play his heart out, as Jeter had just done. That's what fans want, at least fans like myself: someone who's going to go out and do something extra! Whether it's from a manager or a SS, it's irrelevant. People like myself want a team to go out of their way to show they care very much about winning the game and can do so. That's all I care for. That and the win.

[NYMets523]

If you're saying he wasn't a bad signing (as in pretty good, but not great), is that from a perspective of him solely as a player and what he as a pitcher has done for the team? Is that his spirit, in that he makes clown faces and cheers up the Shea crowd, which he definitely has done? Or are you referring to his leading the way for other big stars there, such as Beltran, Delgado, Santana, etc? It's a 3-headed coin from what I see, and those are the 3 heads I've seen from Pedro.
He had one good season in 2005 and he is responsible for attracting free agents as well as prospects. Fernando Martinez signed with the Mets because of Pedro and Beltran.


So this was due to the absence of Duaner Sanchez at the beginning of the season, and how many games Aaron Heilman has blown? So 7 wins was very unlikely, but 4 would be more reasonable?
Middle relief has been inconsistent all year. I'm also taking into account the Mets' feast-or-famine offense.


When do you believe that John Maine will be the second ace? What do you consider the #2, 3, 4 and 5 pitchers are right now?
I don't believe in second aces. There's a #1, #2, #3, #4, #5. You can call the #2 a "second ace". It makes no difference.


I haven't read that, but I'd quoted earlier where Carter stated he would love the job. Reminded me of when Torre talked about the LAD job before the manager was even fired. I felt it was in poor taste, but Torre got the job because the team was slumping and he'd gotten a big name in the Bronx.
Carter is a desperate and pathetic person. He actually called Jay Horowitz BEFORE Willie has been fired to let the Mets know he's available.



Who's in line for Willie's job? (http://www.nj.com/mets/index.ssf/2008/05/whos_in_line_for_willies_job.html)

Here's the Adobe Acrobat PDF file: Next in Line? (http://blog.nj.com/mets_main/2008/05/metscover.pdf)
Most seem unrealistic.


This would make the Mets a .543 Win% team, and in 3rd place right now. That would make you happy being 4 above .500? I would've felt that 6+ above .500 would've been better, but that's just me. Either case, it's the difference between 3rd and 4th place. Which other 4th place team wants their manager fired?
I'd like for them to be 30-16 but I'm realistic. It's more important how they play than their record. The real gripe I have is how they take at-bats and games off. They don't play crisp and make a lot of mental mistakes that hurt them.


You're sounding like a Yankee fan in complaining about the win 3, lose 2 thing, since we've had that all season. That's why some teams (like yours and mine) are below .500 in the first place.

Yes, they lose in Sep '06 to an 83-win Cards team. Didn't that team win the WS, beating the team the Yanks lost to, which was Motown? The Cards are still a great team. Willie didn't strike out with RISP, it was Carlos Beltran who looked at the pitch but didn't get the call. That reliever threw the same dicey pitch he'd thrown earlier in the count. What did Willie Randolph do that would've made him different had Beltran dropped a 2-run single into Shea's CF?
The Cardinals were far from a great team. They limped into the playoffs and got hot at the right time. The Mets' bats going cold also helped.

Willie Randolph did have Cliff Floyd, with runners on 1st and 2nd no outs (they were the tying runs), pinch hit. Floyd had been injured a good portion of the season and had to leave the first game early. He was basically hitting with one ankle. Willie should have had Glavine PH to bunt the runners over. Then a fly ball brings in one and gets them over and all you need is a single to tie it. Instead, Floyd and Reyes got out, Lo Duca walked to load the bases and then Beltran never moved his bat.


That 7-game lead with 17 games to go was pretty bad. I don't know if guys slacked off or what, but that dancing around in front of everyone is what inspired the Marlins, who had no chance of making it (despite earlier September hopes for the WC) to put up D-Train on short rest against Glavine. Teams don't put up their ace on short rest if they have no personal possible gain unless they're simply trying to prevent a team from advancing, and the message was quite obvious, at least to myself: stop the Mets and their smugness (from the players, not the fans).
The whole thing with the Marlins being "woken up" is complete BS. They were probably pissed and wanted to win. Willis didn't help since he left early (and wasn't pitching that bad since the Mets didn't threaten after the first inning). The Mets beat themselves that game.


As to Willie's statement about the champagne tasting sweeter, the champagne isn't guaranteed unless you happen to visit a liquor store. Kind of like having to take a bus to Cooperstown, rather than being enshrined: it's not automatic. Perhaps he needs a class in PR or something. He's never had to face the press before, since he was always a coach. Unlike Lee Mazzilli, who was the Yanks' 1B coach when Willie was the 3B coach here (and an SNY broadcaster now), Maz' Orioles weren't ever in the media spotlight like the Mets were. Therefore, any erroneous statements on Willie's part would be magnified. Play with fire, you get burned. Play with a bigger fire, you can get burned even more, I figure.
He had two years of dealing with the press so that excuse is irrelevant. He shouldn't have been saying those comments. They were awful in that stretch and he came off as an oblivious fool.


I've never seen Willie as anything but a cautious person. I don't see that as being racial, and I'm wondering why the heck he's even worrying about how he appears on camera. Unless he's modelling for some sports ad or a magazine cover, why would he even worry about that? Other than when he'd done a Subway sandwich radio ad with Torre a few years back, he had no reason, to me, to worry about his image. He's there to manage. You think that Piniella worries how he appears on camera during his infamous dirt-throwing, cap-kicking rants? Just manage and that's all I'll say.
His comments about SNY are due to his criticism of being stoic. It's not about his looks, it's about how his attitude about the team looks.


As often as Big Stein argued with Torre, telling him how to manage the team, strongly criticizing and belittling him in the media, can you name any time that the Wilpons have ever done this to Willie?
Nothing public but I've read that Jeff Wilpon wanted to fire Willie or at least take the responsibility for 2006 and 2007 last year but was talked out of it.

[Mattingly]

I'll reply tomorrow also, 523. However, please scan this link carefully.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/teams/schedule?team=sea

I see only *ONE* 3-game win streak here. *ONE*. However, a see a 4-game losing streak followed by *THREE* 5-game losing streaks. The team? Seattle Mariners.

I think that if any manager deserves to be fired, it would be John McLaren, not Willie Randolph.

I can feel your pain, since we've had many losing games also, and some, I've wondered whether they even had any shot at the playoffs. All of last season up until around August would be a a good example.

All I'm asking you Mets fans is to look at all of MLB re stats and see if you're really the first team who should have your team's manager fired. If you still want him canned, see if the replacement is likely to do a better job. That's all.

[Mattingly]

So far, one manager mentioned in here has his job safe, despite having a league-worst season, one in which they'd allowed an average 11 runs over the past 5 games, all of which were losses:

Mariners president says jobs of McLaren, Bavasi are safe (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3411649)

[NYMets523]

I'll reply tomorrow also, 523. However, please scan this link carefully.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/teams/schedule?team=sea

I see only *ONE* 3-game win streak here. *ONE*. However, a see a 4-game losing streak followed by *THREE* 5-game losing streaks. The team? Seattle Mariners.
Not saying the M's shouldn't fire their manager. The Mets haven't had actual "win 4, lose 3" streaks but they go 4-3. They have a good weekend (like sweeping the Yankees) followed by an awful week (like losing to the Braves). The previous week they beat the Reds and then had a horrible 4 games against the Nats.


All I'm asking you Mets fans is to look at all of MLB re stats and see if you're really the first team who should have your team's manager fired. If you still want him canned, see if the replacement is likely to do a better job. That's all.
The rest of MLB didn't blow a 7-game lead with 17 left to go last year.

[Mattingly]

Not saying the M's shouldn't fire their manager. The Mets haven't had actual "win 4, lose 3" streaks but they go 4-3. They have a good weekend (like sweeping the Yankees) followed by an awful week (like losing to the Braves). The previous week they beat the Reds and then had a horrible 4 games against the Nats.
Yes, those are the results. They're still 13 games below .500, while the Mets are one game below .500. I'm asking, why is a team that's all of 1 game below .500 willing to fire their manager, and it's getting so much more press than a team so far below .500? While the Mariners' president just gave a confidence approval to McLaren (Mgr) and Bavasi (GM), Mets fans want Willie fired. Had the Mets had a record like Seattle, yes, then I could understand, but they don't.

The rest of MLB didn't blow a 7-game lead with 17 left to go last year.
Nobody in MLB ever were 3-up in an LCS then lost the next 4 games, especially to a division rival. Despite the 4 WS wins from before, where was the outcry to fire Joe Torre?

Was the players' getting lax and not winning those games partly Willie Randolph's fault? I'd guess so. Was it entirely his fault? I'd say no. Why aren't the players being faulted? If you dump your manager, does anyone else get blamed? Or does the manager receive 100% of the blame?

[stejay]

Willie Randolph. He will go soon, and will be followed by Mclaren not long afterwards.

[NYMets523]

I'm asking, why is a team that's all of 1 game below .500 willing to fire their manager, and it's getting so much more press than a team so far below .500?
Where do the New York Mets play? Where do the Seattle Mariners play? I think that should answer your question.


Nobody in MLB ever were 3-up in an LCS then lost the next 4 games, especially to a division rival. Despite the 4 WS wins from before, where was the outcry to fire Joe Torre?
If Joe Torre only had 1-2 years under his belt, he'd be fired. He had what? 7 years and 4 championships. The fact that he had a history of success prevented people from wanting him fired. Willie does not have that luxury.


Was the players' getting lax and not winning those games partly Willie Randolph's fault? I'd guess so. Was it entirely his fault? I'd say no. Why aren't the players being faulted? If you dump your manager, does anyone else get blamed? Or does the manager receive 100% of the blame?
Players are being blamed. It's easier to fire one guy than 20 guys. That's why managers always get fired instead of players.

[Mattingly]

Where do the New York Mets play? Where do the Seattle Mariners play? I think that should answer your question.
Good point, and I'm unsure if Seattle has an all-sports radio station like NYC & Boston do. When people can call in their views, especially strong ones, I think that management listens, especially when most of the announcers there are Mets fans, as in the case of WFAN.

If Joe Torre only had 1-2 years under his belt, he'd be fired. He had what? 7 years and 4 championships. The fact that he had a history of success prevented people from wanting him fired. Willie does not have that luxury.
I would likely think so. However, Randolph still had a team which went to the NLCS, even if they lost that one.

For the 7-game lead in 17 games being lost, do you think that was Randolph's fault for not getting his team in the proper frame of mind?

Players are being blamed. It's easier to fire one guy than 20 guys. That's why managers always get fired instead of players.
Which players are being blamed? The only person I've seen blamed so far would be Willie Randolph. Is Reyes to blame? Wright? Delgado? Beltran? Wagner? Any of the coaches? Minaya? I already know that reliever Aaron Heilman is to blame. That's an easy choice.

[NYMets523]

Good point, and I'm unsure if Seattle has an all-sports radio station like NYC & Boston do. When people can call in their views, especially strong ones, I think that management listens, especially when most of the announcers there are Mets fans, as in the case of WFAN.
WFAN's biggest show is hosted by two idiots who love seeing the Mets fail in every way, shape, and form.


I would likely think so. However, Randolph still had a team which went to the NLCS, even if they lost that one.
That was two years ago and they lost to an 83-win team. If he had at least won a pennant, a lot fewer people would want his head.


For the 7-game lead in 17 games being lost, do you think that was Randolph's fault for not getting his team in the proper frame of mind?
I blame him for instilling the mentality that team had at the end of last year.


Which players are being blamed? The only person I've seen blamed so far would be Willie Randolph. Is Reyes to blame? Wright? Delgado? Beltran? Wagner? Any of the coaches? Minaya? I already know that reliever Aaron Heilman is to blame. That's an easy choice.
Delgado is blamed a lot. His career is pretty much done and he comes across as very arrogant. Heilman has been a clubhouse cancer since he's still upset he's not a starter. I've heard somethings about Castillo being a bad influence. No coaches are being blamed, but you'll find some morons on this board that think Peterson should be fired (despite the hitting being the real problem of this team). Minaya isn't getting much (if any) because he got Santana, Church, and Schneider.

[Mattingly]

WFAN's biggest show is hosted by two idiots who love seeing the Mets fail in every way, shape, and form.
You mean Mike and the Mad Dog? Some people call them Fat Mike and the Angry Puppy. :D

I haven't listened them in awhile, but YES has video footage of them filling in the vacant 1pm-6pm slot, which is a cheap way to avoid producing a program.

I think that some of the late-night hosts are Mets fans, and I've heard a few staffers on the M&MD Show blast the Yankees before, despite being live on YES. Mike Francessa is a Yankee fan, and Chris "Mad Dog" Russo is a Yankee-baiting SF Giants fan. His world would've turned upside down had the Yanks faced the Giants in the 2002 WS. Well, all that's off topic.

That was two years ago and they lost to an 83-win team. If he had at least won a pennant, a lot fewer people would want his head.
I'm not too sure about that. Quite a few people weren't too thrilled with what Joe Torre did in the 2001 and 2003 WS games. In 2001, he never used Jose Contreras at all in the playoffs. Suddenly, David Wells can't answer the bell for the 2nd inning of Game 5. Contreras has to come out. It's as if Contreras wasn't trusted enough, despite being a big-name acquisition of Steinbrenner. Then using Mo for 2 innings bit him hard when he had a poor Game 7. Having the infield-in led to the ball being looped past the INF, scoring Tony Womack, I think it was.

In 2003, it was using Jeff Weaver for an extra inning in Game 5. Walkoff HR to a weak SS, Alex Gonzalez, i think. Trust me, if a manager makes mental gaffes in the WS, fans will get pretty mad, and there are those who can't stand some of Torre's moves to this day. I know, I'm one of them.

I blame him for instilling the mentality that team had at the end of last year.
Which mentality would that be? That they were pre-destined to win, and that they wouldn't have to put in too much effort? Sounds like a Joe Torre clone, but lacking the WS rings. If that's right, I think he got that from Torre himself. If he's ever been seen in the dugout sipping green tea, you know where that's coming from.

Delgado is blamed a lot. His career is pretty much done and he comes across as very arrogant. Heilman has been a clubhouse cancer since he's still upset he's not a starter. I've heard somethings about Castillo being a bad influence. No coaches are being blamed, but you'll find some morons on this board that think Peterson should be fired (despite the hitting being the real problem of this team). Minaya isn't getting much (if any) because he got Santana, Church, and Schneider.
Delgado has come across as arrogant in what ways? I remember that Wagner blamed him and a few others for not meeting the press after a loss, something that Willie Randolph had some team meeting to correct. Willie said that he didn't mind the critique, but preferred that it be done in-house, rather than publicly to reporters.

So Heilman wanted to be a starter? He could try asking to be the longman and do a good job at that first. If he got spot starts, that could help. His becoming the mid-relief version of the infamous Armando "Blownitez" Benitez doesn't exactly help his cause.

What have you heard about Castillo?

As to pitch coach Rick Peterson, what kind of criticism has he gotten? Does he not know what to say to the pitchers, such as which pitches to throw when a guy is really in trouble (2 RISP, 1 out)? Has he had any situations where he did all the talking, the pitcher listened, and the guy somehow turned it around for that inning?

In addition to those players, Minaya also got Pedro. He's been criticized for acquiring many Hispanic players, but it just so happens that many of the guys are Hispanic. Speaking of which, now if he hadn't offered Posada a 4-year deal, we could've just given him a 3-year deal, which would've likely been fine by both sides. Oh well.

[Stat One Author]

What do you expect? One is a Yankee fan, and the other likes the Giants. It makes for great radio debates and gets callers to pick up the phones when the Mets go into the tank. Just imagine what it will be like if Randolph gets fired at some point during the season.

[NYMets523]

I'm not too sure about that. Quite a few people weren't too thrilled with what Joe Torre did in the 2001 and 2003 WS games.
Met fans would be more lenient. A trip to the WS would have helped them feel good.


Which mentality would that be?
"It's only one game"/"The champagne will taste sweeter"


Delgado has come across as arrogant in what ways?
He's rarely, if ever, at his locker. He contributed to the above mentality last year^. I remember hearing someone say there are guys on the team who get their hits and are happy, they don't care whether they won or loss. Delgado is definitely one of those.

So Heilman wanted to be a starter? He could try asking to be the longman and do a good job at that first. If he got spot starts, that could help. His becoming the mid-relief version of the infamous Armando "Blownitez" Benitez doesn't exactly help his cause.


What have you heard about Castillo?
He's a sulker, was going out with Reyes at nights, Minnesota dumped him because he


As to pitch coach Rick Peterson, what kind of criticism has he gotten?
Nothing intelligent. People just want him gone because


In addition to those players, Minaya also got Pedro. He's been criticized for acquiring many Hispanic players, but it just so happens that many of the guys are Hispanic.
A stupid criticism. I rather talented hispanics than untalented whites.


Speaking of which, now if he hadn't offered Posada a 4-year deal, we could've just given him a 3-year deal, which would've likely been fine by both sides. Oh well.
I don't believe he offered Posada 4 years (and thank God since after a month he can't catch anymore).

[DownUnderDodger]

I see only *ONE* 3-game win streak here. *ONE*. However, a see a 4-game losing streak followed by *THREE* 5-game losing streaks. The team? Seattle Mariners.

I think that if any manager deserves to be fired, it would be John McLaren, not Willie Randolph.

With their record McLaren would be the obvious choice except he is in Seattle, a team, from what I see, does not have much of a winning record in baseball, therefore winning is not "expected" as much as it obviously is in the "Big Apple" and a few other larger franchises. (Heck, even Frasier used to comment about how bad the Mariners were, and his knowledge of Baseball is about as expansive as mine is of Opera. :rofl::hide:)

[Erik Bedard]

Tell that to Mariner fans. In the last few years, they signed Sexson, Beltre, Ichiro, Johjima, Washburn, Batista, and Silva to big contracts, spent the farm to get Bedard, and now what do they have to show for it? Nothing.

[Mattingly]

Today is Monday, Memorial Day. The Mets are home at Shea, and Willie Randolph is expected to meet with the Mets owners, Fred Wilpon and one of his sons, Jeff. If he's going to be fired soon, it will be today.

From today's Yankee pre-game (the Mets game isn't until after 7pm ET), some reports have stated that Willie won't be fired. However, they are playing the division leaders at home, so that's important.

[NYMets523]

Today is Monday, Memorial Day. The Mets are home at Shea, and Willie Randolph is expected to meet with the Mets owners, Fred Wilpon and one of his sons, Jeff. If he's going to be fired soon, it will be today.

Jeff is his only son (unfortunately). If he is going to be fired, it may not be today. It should but it may not be.

[Mattingly]

523, I'll get back to you shortly.

This article seemed a bit insightful, and it relates to the topic at hand.

Managers May Feel Heat, but TV Crews Sense Retribution (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/24/sports/baseball/24sandomir.html?_r=1&ref=baseball&oref=slogin)

[Zagi-CRO]

If anyone deserves to be fired - it's Jim Leyland.
Please, fired him as soon as possible!!

[whoisonit]

If anyone deserves to be fired - it's Jim Leyland.
Please, fired him as soon as possible!!

He'll quit soon, don't worry.

[Zagi-CRO]

He'll quit soon, don't worry.

Instead the Tigers are leading at the AL they are playing the worst baseball.
Could you fire whole team or coach? Leyland, of course.

[SamtheBravesFan]

Instead the Tigers are leading at the AL they are playing the worst baseball.
Could you fire whole team or coach? Leyland, of course.

No no, you don't understand. Leyland is going to quit. He's going to walk away after the season's over. No one is going to fire him.

[Mattingly]

The NY Daily News' own legend, Bill Gallo, has shown widespread support for Willie! :D

[DownUnderDodger]

With the under performing Dodgers :disbelief: in town Willie's job seems safe for the moment. His team certainly spoiled Joe's return to the Big Apple today, and I would not be surprised if there were a few brooms around before the end of their current series.

[Zagi-CRO]

No no, you don't understand. Leyland is going to quit. He's going to walk away after the season's over. No one is going to fire him.

Ok, I understand. But I think the Tigers could have a long summer with him.

[baseball junkie]

Back on topic, I think the White Sox would be much better off without Ozzie Guilien. And if his :debate: with Ken Williams lingers, one of them has to go.

:waving Ozzie, you won't be missed.

[Mattingly]

I just had to post this one in here first (despite Gallo's messing up the "NY" in Willie's cap):



Back on topic, I think the White Sox would be much better off without Ozzie Guilien. And if his :debate: with Ken Williams lingers, one of them has to go.

:waving Ozzie, you won't be missed.
Anyone there to replace him? He'd recently complained about the lack of hitting by the team. Do you think that should've been mentioned publicly or privately during a team meeting?

[NYMets523]

If Willie wasn't from NY and didn't play on the Yankees during the prime of his career, Gallo wouldn't be supporting him and he'd have been fired already.

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/8237716/Continued-gaffes-not-helping-Randolph's-cause

Rosenthal (who is always reliable) says that the Mets were unhappy with Randolph's decision last night, that he should have brought Wagner in to start the 9th. I don't want to imagine what they thought of today after his atrocious bullpen usage (stayed with Smith too long. Didn't have anyone backing up Smith or Heilman). His reign of failure is over. If they lose another series, he's gone.

[SamtheBravesFan]

Ok, I understand. But I think the Tigers could have a long summer with him.

Leyland has about as much to do with the Tigers' failure to execute as Cox does with the Braves: very little. The manager may make dumb decisions sometimes, but circumstances dictate what he does. The Tigers are not playing well, and I doubt that is Leyland's fault.

[NYMets523]

The Tiger-Marlin trade has killed them. Dontrelle is in Single A now and Cabrera is already dogging it a couple months into his long term deal.

[Zagi-CRO]

The Tiger-Marlin trade has killed them. Dontrelle is in Single A now and Cabrera is already dogging it a couple months into his long term deal.

I predicted the Mets will be at 93-69 at the end but seems bad, right now.
Projected 77-85... W.Randolph doesn't do his job well.

[Mattingly]

If Willie wasn't from NY and didn't play on the Yankees during the prime of his career, Gallo wouldn't be supporting him and he'd have been fired already.

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/8237716/Continued-gaffes-not-helping-Randolph's-cause

Rosenthal (who is always reliable) says that the Mets were unhappy with Randolph's decision last night, that he should have brought Wagner in to start the 9th. I don't want to imagine what they thought of today after his atrocious bullpen usage (stayed with Smith too long. Didn't have anyone backing up Smith or Heilman). His reign of failure is over. If they lose another series, he's gone.
Hey, pal, we Yankee fan homers do stick together, and since Scooter has passed on, Gallo's the biggest one we have so far! :D

If Willie hadn't been a NYC staple for so many years, he wouldn't have even gotten the job. His being an ex-Yankee player made him a fixture at 3B (despite his waving home players to get gunned down quite a few times at home plate). Only when he became Torre's bench coach did he finally get serious managerial interviews from a team, in this case, the Mets. Before that, it was like he was the pre-scheduled minority candidate who wouldn't get the job due to lack of experience (Willie never managed in the Minors).

Which game should Wagner have been brought into the 9th? I'd need to check the game log, or if you could describe what happened, then we can talk.

After last night's game, I think that Wagner needs to stop getting on his teammates' cases and look deeply into the mirror. He had 2 RISP with nobody at 1B for the DP, and there was not even a single out recorded yet. This for the 9th inning that he'd started. 7 innings, no runs from Santana. He still had a 2-run lead.

From listening to the game on the radio, Willie came to the mound, but only after the bases were loaded. The 2Bman (Castillo?) threw home for the force after this, but I think that Willie should've come to the mound once they had 2 RISP, no outs. My thinking is that "prevention is better than cure", and some managers seem to wait until the bottle is ready to explode before they sense imminent danger.

Wagner cannot possibly blow any games like this, since when you're up 4-2 in the top of the 9th, you shouldn't lose it 5-4 in the bottom of the 10th.

[Mattingly]

I predicted the Mets will be at 93-69 at the end but seems bad, right now.
Projected 77-85... W.Randolph doesn't do his job well.
Based upon the results, I'd sadly concur. Players need to get more focus back into what they're doing, but that's not happening right now.

WAGS CARES, BUT IT'S NOT ENOUGH (http://www.nypost.com/seven/06132008/sports/mets/wags_cares__but_its_not_enough_115293.htm)


* * *

"I just can't get the job done right now," Wagner lamented, and we have heard time and time again that this is the way we want to see the Mets react after losses, this is the fire we want to see, this is the sound and the fury we just don't see enough of from the center fielder or the second baseman or the others.

"They don't care!" has been a principal rallying cry among Mets fans as they have rapidly fallen out of love with their baseball team.

Well here is Billy Wagner. Look at him. He cares. You can believe that he tossed and turned last night the same way you did. You can bet he replayed that ninth inning - walk, scratch hit, double, force play, fielder's choice - a thousand times on his drive home, during dinner, while he was watching the Celtics-Lakers game.

Right now, good teams don't blow leads like this, giving up 5 runs over 3 innings, and especially letting other teams take up only 2 innings to tie up games they'd lead by 4 runs. Willie has to figure out a solution to stop this.

[NYMets523]

Which game should Wagner have been brought into the 9th? I'd need to check the game log, or if you could describe what happened, then we can talk.
Pelfrey was throwing a shut out. He got Willie to let him start the 9th. Willie hooked him after he gave up a hit. Wagner came in and blew. Mets management didnt like that because Wagner has a 7 ERA when he comes into the game.


From listening to the game on the radio, Willie came to the mound, but only after the bases were loaded. The 2Bman (Castillo?) threw home for the force after this, but I think that Willie should've come to the mound once they had 2 RISP, no outs. My thinking is that "prevention is better than cure", and some managers seem to wait until the bottle is ready to explode before they sense imminent danger.
It was Reyes who threw home for the force out. Also, Castro could have thrown to 3rd to get a DP. Castro said he didn't think he had a chance of getting him (even though Wright was standing on 3rd screaming).

[LetsGoMets687]

And your winner is...



PS: Suggest the poll be closed.

[Zagi-CRO]

Poor Willie... :dance

[Mattingly]

And your winner is...



PS: Suggest the poll be closed.
The poll has now been closed, per your request.

Now comes Side B: how well do the Mets do now that they can't blame anything on Willie Randolph?

[Seattle1]

I really think the Mariners ought to fire MacLaren too.

[DownUnderDodger]

Well the popular vote of BF'ers got the bacon.....or should I saw got porked!!

[Zagi-CRO]

I really think the Mariners ought to fire MacLaren too.

O yes, even before Randolph...