Front Leg

[JeffK 29]

Hey All,

Check out the PDF attached. Seeking comments on the front leg. In general trying to get him to firm up the front leg but trying find the words for why. He's not sliding forward/lunging. What negatives would this soft front leg be causing in the swing?

Would you fix the front leg or the bat drag first?

Thanks- JK

[StraightGrain11]

I think your misinterpreting when to apply the term. The term applies AT CONTACT. His leg is "firm" AT CONTATCT. Yes, it looks a little "awkward", but I would say that's more a personal "style"...at the point of contatct, mechanically, he's correct.
Look at Frame #10. That's pretty good...

[jbooth]

Hey All,

Check out the PDF attached. Seeking comments on the front leg. In general trying to get him to firm up the front leg but trying find the words for why. He's not sliding forward/lunging. What negatives would this soft front leg be causing in the swing?

Would you fix the front leg or the bat drag first?

Thanks- JK

I don't see much wrong with his legs. He probably should get the front leg from bent to straight a tiny bit sooner, but it isn't bad. I'd be more concerned with his bat drag, ie leading with the back elbow. You won't see ANY pro hitter's back elbow move like his does.

[wogdoggy]

I don't see much wrong with his legs. He probably should get the front leg from bent to straight a tiny bit sooner, but it isn't bad. I'd be more concerned with his bat drag, ie leading with the back elbow. You won't see ANY pro hitter's back elbow move like his does.

pretty noticable frames five thru 8...????

[Chris O'Leary]

pretty noticable frames five thru 8...????

Frames 6 and 7 are classic bat drag.

His lower body is fine.

[TrentThomas]

Hey All,

Check out the PDF attached. Seeking comments on the front leg. In general trying to get him to firm up the front leg but trying find the words for why. He's not sliding forward/lunging. What negatives would this soft front leg be causing in the swing?

...

I like the pdf slide show - how did you create that?

:homeplate:

[LClifton]

42909
42908
Realizing the still pictures I am posting, comparing the hitters, appear to be at different times of the overall swing pattern...(see question below)

Suggestion;
Perch the rear arm up on this yellow shelf.
This should lower the lead arm (and shoulder) slightly and raise the barrel some.
From this position he may be less likely to lead with the rear elbow.

I posted the first picture in the slide show.
Question;
Is the first picture actually the very beginning of his movement pattern?

The front leg is not too bad.

[wogdoggy]

42909
42908
Realizing the still pictures I am posting, comparing the hitters, appear to be at different times of the overall swing pattern...(see question below)

Suggestion;
Perch the rear arm up on this yellow shelf.
This should lower the lead arm (and shoulder) slightly and raise the barrel some.
From this position he may be less likely to lead with the rear elbow.

I posted the first picture in the slide show.
Question;
Is the first picture actually the very beginning of his movement pattern?

The front leg is not too bad.



I agree,,its not the leg and even if it were it would probably be a timing problem,,,although his swing appears pretty fluid,,his rear elbow as clifton notes is NEVER really in a power position ..imo,,he can never generate any EARLY BATSPEED[yes i believe]...lol..again getting that bat vertical should help him significantly..the vertical bat seems to fix so many hitting faults..

[Mark H]

That IS pretty cool. You can run it almost like a movie. Bat drag is a problem and rotation is a problem and posture is a problem. How old is he, how well does he hit now and how much higher does he want to play?

[JeffK 29]

That IS pretty cool. You can run it almost like a movie. Bat drag is a problem and rotation is a problem and posture is a problem. How old is he, how well does he hit now and how much higher does he want to play?

Thanks Mark. He's a HS Jr. Played varsity level this year. I want to help him address his issues for next year.

[JeffK 29]

That IS pretty cool. You can run it almost like a movie. Bat drag is a problem and rotation is a problem and posture is a problem. How old is he, how well does he hit now and how much higher does he want to play?

42909
42908
Realizing the still pictures I am posting, comparing the hitters, appear to be at different times of the overall swing pattern...(see question below)

Suggestion;
Perch the rear arm up on this yellow shelf.
This should lower the lead arm (and shoulder) slightly and raise the barrel some.
From this position he may be less likely to lead with the rear elbow.

I posted the first picture in the slide show.
Question;
Is the first picture actually the very beginning of his movement pattern?

The front leg is not too bad.

He does a slite tap to begin...bat strts a bit higher but when he does his toe tap his hands drop down. I think I started at heal plant -1 with that post. I'll post the frames prior.

Thanks for the tips.

[JeffK 29]

I like the pdf slide show - how did you create that?

:homeplate:

Here's what I did:

transferred analog video to computer...gives an AVI file.
Open video using quick time
Quick time pro allows you to export video to jpg frames.
pulled frames to power point slides
saved power point with adobe PDF

[LClifton]

I agree with Mark here on the posture.
Sometimes getting into the postion I showed in the Cabrerra picture (rear and front elbow, lead shoulder) will prompt a player to "tuck the belt line".
Certainly not a cure all (that set up).

Big strong looking young man with good overall movement.

Hope to see more of him here.

[Sammy]

Classic bat drag, and IMO, the front foot opens too soon, causing loss of power in his rotation. The front foot should be planted firmly giving his hips a foundation to rotate against. Notice how his front heel pivots to open his front side as he starts rotation.

IMO, you can eliminate his "squatting appearance" by setting the hands/elbow higher as stated, then have him start striding with the front foot closed. As he rotates around the front hip, his front leg will naturally straighten. Notice in clips of MLB players that after heel plant all movement of the front foot is isolated to rolling onto the outside of the foot.

[mudvnine]

IMO it’s not a hand or arm starting position problem, but rather a linear start to begin the swing instead of using the hips to initiate momentum.

If you look at slide 1-6 there is no hip rotation as evidenced by the rear foot only starting to lift/move in frame 5. But during the same time you see the upper body move forward AND bring the hands.

If he was able to keep his hands back it wouldn’t be such a big deal, but since they are moving forward, his body is telling him to what for his hips to catch up and accomplishing that by pulling his elbow into his side and slowing the bat, hence the extreme bat drag seen.

This can be seen in frame 7, as his rear elbow is out in front of his rear hip and continues to do so in frame 8 and then has to pull across his body in frame 9 to get the bat head into the hitting zone.

What is unusual is that he is able to stop his elbow travel in frame 10 and show good extension from there through frames 11, 12, and 13. Being able to do this tells me has some pretty good upper body and forearm strength, however I think he is sacrificing significant power to make better contact. Does he hit for power or does he hit more line drives that falls solidly between the infielders and outfielders?

In essence this early elbow and bat drag are his way trying to keep to the idea of being short to the ball and preventing a long swing, but not initiating his swing from hips. It's his mind’s way of compensating, to stick with a plan, when the body got off to a bad start and is not cooperating.

Try Jim’s hip drill to teach him to start with his hips instead of his top side; I think the drill will help him immensely.

Good luck

[JeffK 29]

42909
42908
Realizing the still pictures I am posting, comparing the hitters, appear to be at different times of the overall swing pattern...(see question below)

Suggestion;
Perch the rear arm up on this yellow shelf.
This should lower the lead arm (and shoulder) slightly and raise the barrel some.
From this position he may be less likely to lead with the rear elbow.

I posted the first picture in the slide show.
Question;
Is the first picture actually the very beginning of his movement pattern?

The front leg is not too bad.

Here's earlier in the load/step of same swing. This was against a machine.

[JeffK 29]

Here's earlier in the load/step of same swing. This was against a machine.


forgot attachment...here it is.

[LClifton]

Posture improvement (Mark's comment) would assist, IMO, your son's rotation and sequencing. (mudvnine's comment.)
The positioning of the arms / elbows (thru a better load), IMO, would help your son reduce the bat drag.

With the bat "laid off" and hands that high
his ability to load is somewhat hindered.
What I mean is this; it doesn't make sense for him to load in a way that stretches the front and pinches the back shoulder(s) because of the position of his bat and hands. If he did load them he would have the bat severely "wrapped" around behind his head.

Due to the lack of load he tries to salvage, from anywhere, speed and power.
It is revealed in dragging the bat.

In this still I see posture,
lead elbow down,
rear elbow/ arm parallel to the ground and the rear elbow "back" slightly,
a lead shoulder that is stretched.
He is loaded.
This is a good launch position--- with the hips put in position to lead.

Not saying that your son will do things exactly like this, but I see many players "get to" this position.
42932



Beltran goes about it in his own way.
Bat starts flat, (like your son) but then,
his load includes,
lead arm works down as rear elbow moves rearward,
as a result bat moves to more vertical,
(with a good angle toward the pitcher)
result---he loads his shoulders.
Due to his good posturing and load he is in a postion to unload very quickly.
Not only quick but accurate (with the barrel).
42930

I think some small things will go a long way with your son's swing.

[JeffK 29]

Thanks to all for the guidance. With all the info provided, I think I can help him on the upper body stuff and we'll start that first.

But the lower body is bugging me. Here's why. I have 18 guys on my team. Having now seen video of most of them I can say most initiate the swing from the upper body. Should be a fun summer. If I looked at the frames prior to contact on this guy I would say he must be using his hips. He is the only 1 I've seen on the team who's foot comes up that much 2 frames before cotact. However, as MV9 points out above, this guy does not initiate the swing with his hips. He seems to be swinging from the top down. There is no separation. Could it be that the soft front leg allows his hips to come thru with the shoulders? Almost looks like he's spinning on the ball of his front foot and it's providing the illusion of good hip work.

Thoughts?

[Hard Liner]

...this guy does not initiate the swing with his hips...
Thoughts?

I have this formatted in a way I can seemlessly scroll through the frames at any speed I'd like and I think he is initiating with his hips. A click back and forth between frames 1 and 4 clearly shows a hip turn without any torso involvment. The first pull of the shoulder is at frame 5 with the hips having continued their turn - though with a little hip slide - and the lead arm having been performing a slight load before this point.

The front leg seems pretty good to me. If it's something you still want to address, I would say he needs to firm it up sooner which may reduce the hip slide. Maybe close the foot a little, too.

Regarding the bat drag, that's a philosophical issue. There was more rear elbow tuck in the old days of mlb, some even had that much. Is it the preferred method of dealing with modern, 97 mph heaters? Evidence says no. Do you want to do what it takes to fix it? It's an issue I go back and forth on all the time. Depends on a lot of things not the least of which are the understanding, drive, and goals of the kid, but he may do quite well with that swing in high school.

imho

[JeffK 29]

I have this formatted in a way I can seemlessly scroll through the frames at any speed I'd like and I think he is initiating with his hips. A click back and forth between frames 1 and 4 clearly shows a hip turn without any torso involvment. The first pull of the shoulder is at frame 5 with the hips having continued their turn - though with a little hip slide - and the lead arm having been performing a slight load before this point.

The front leg seems pretty good to me. If it's something you still want to address, I would say he needs to firm it up sooner which may reduce the hip slide. Maybe close the foot a little, too.

Regarding the bat drag, that's a philosophical issue. There was more rear elbow tuck in the old days of mlb, some even had that much. Is it the preferred method of dealing with modern, 97 mph heaters? Evidence says no. Do you want to do what it takes to fix it? It's an issue I go back and forth on all the time. Depends on a lot of things not the least of which are the understanding, drive, and goals of the kid, but he may do quite well with that swing in high school.

imho

Thanks. My number 1 goal is to do no harm. I'll just give him a couple ideas to try and see how he feels.


-Jeff

[LClifton]

Thanks. My number 1 goal is to do no harm. I'll just give him a couple ideas to try and see how he feels.
-Jeff
Good stuff JeffK.
Hopefully you will let us know how he's doing.