When To Deal With Bat Drag?

[Chris O'Leary]

While I haven't videotaped my 8YO, 2nd grade, son's swing yet this year, I'm sure there's some bat drag in there. However, I'm reluctant to deal with it right now because he hit his first Home Run yesterday (a long line drive to CF that went over the CFer's head and just kept rolling).

Needless to say, that was fun!

It's the first HR any member of our family has ever hit.

The bat drag isn't an issue b/c we're doing coach pitch right now and maybe for next year as well. After that, he's probably got a couple of years of kid pitch before the pitching velocity starts to become an issue.

When would you start dealing with bat drag, understanding that if I deal with it too soon I'm going to rob him of some power due to the transition?

[PhilliesPhan22]

Coach pitch?? When did that start? When I was in LL as an 8yo, players pitched. Is this part of the "everyone gets a trophy" mentality?

Congrats to your son on his homer:)

[Encinitas]

If he's hitting the ball hard I wouldn't mess with it. Since there is such a fine line between a great swing and bat drag you might screw something up if you aren't careful.

Particularly at this age. Contact and fun. Hitting baseball's hard and far keeps them coming back. I don't know what the perfect age is to fix it.

Incidentally there is a common misconception on "the internets" that so many youth sluggers are just bat drag killers, but in taping some of the 12-13 year old sluggers, I was surprised to see how many of the big power guys were not dragging the bat, and these kids' and their dads wouldn't even know what the term meant.

[new2thesport]

Coach pitch?? When did that start? When I was in LL as an 8yo, players pitched. Is this part of the "everyone gets a trophy" mentality?

Congrats to your son on his homer:)

My son plays little league coach pitch for two years. I believe the ages kind of overlap. Like coach pitch is 7,8 and 9. Minors is 9,10 and 11. I know my sons friend is 9 and had no experience in baseball. He played coach pitch and now is playing minors. He will be 10 next year but his coach told him that he can go and play coach pitch again next year. So I think it has to do with experience also? I dont know.

[Jesse]

I'm in the same situation. My son's 7, and is finally putting things together and learning how to use his power. He hit his first homer yesterday as well, a line drive to right field. He was rounding third when the fastest outfielder finally got to it.

I know for a fact he has some bat drag, but haven't even considered dealing with it until we get some other things ironed out.

Very curious when you guys think is a good age to address this.

[Marc]

My son is in his second year of coach pitch. He's actually only supposed to be in his first year, but I moved up from T-Ball early. He's 7, and will turn 8 in late June.

He's suffering from several hitting flaws that I'm getting after now. Bat drag, or casting is maybe the most major one. He hits just about every ball to the left side. With most of them being grounders to third, due to his hands rolling over too soon (which can happen when the hands get away from the body.)

He's getting on base, and most times hits the ball hard enough that third can't make a play. But, I'm trying to adjust him now. I figure the earlier he fixes the problem, the sooner he can settle into the swing he'll have for the rest of his career. The coach pitch years are the perfect time to work on things. Once a kid gets to the level that they're pitching to each other...it's going to be tougher to change something.

Right now, you could work with him, and ask the coach pitching to him to throw it to the area that would be most helpful for him to work on the problem.

[Dirtberry]

Chris,

Congratulations to your son and your family, what a great day! He will never forget this day. Did you save the ball?

I do one drill to fix any drag problems, the batters press is magic for this age group!

[Ursa Major]

I think that, like Jesse suggests, it depends on whether you've got more important issues to address first. But, I think it's a basic flaw that can be addressed without screwing up the other parts of his swing. But, in that age group, a more common problem is kids not loading up into the swing plane (or not loading at all), and I'd probably tackle that first if it's a problem.

I think that one arm (bottom arm, that is) swing drills can be a nice way to gradually enhnace his swing and slip a young hitter away from bat drag. Also, hitting into a large, soft object (like a homemade version of a boxing "heavy" bag) can be a good way to check to see if that back/top arm elbow is too far forward (bad) or in a "power-L" (good) at contact.

There's always a little room for improvement -- even for little sluggers with a big home run to their credit. Congrats to the Bambino!

[Chris O'Leary]

Coach pitch?? When did that start? When I was in LL as an 8yo, players pitched. Is this part of the "everyone gets a trophy" mentality?

We're playing in a rec league (Catholic Youth Council) for his grade school.

There's no Little League around here (St. Louis, MO).

There is a local select league that is machine pitch or kid pitch at this age, but the kids from his grade who are on that team are playing in the gold level and are playing a ton of games, including tournaments.

We're not ready for that yet (nor do I think it's a good idea at this age).

[Chris O'Leary]

If he's hitting the ball hard I wouldn't mess with it. Since there is such a fine line between a great swing and bat drag you might screw something up if you aren't careful. Particularly at this age. Contact and fun. Hitting baseball's hard and far keeps them coming back.

That's my thought.


Incidentally there is a common misconception on "the internets" that so many youth sluggers are just bat drag killers, but in taping some of the 12-13 year old sluggers, I was surprised to see how many of the big power guys were not dragging the bat, and these kids' and their dads wouldn't even know what the term meant.

Good point.

I guess I should video him just to see exactly what's going on in his swing. He is a relatively strong kid and is swinging a 28/19, which is a little big and heavy of a bat for his age.

I'm just assuming there's bat drag in there, but I don't know for a fact.

[Chris O'Leary]

Very curious when you guys think is a good age to address this.

Bat drag really became an issue for my older son last year in 12U/6th grade, and is the thing that forced me to educate myself on hitting, but in retrospect I think it was starting to affect him in 11U/5th grade.

We have been working on it a lot this year, with good results. His power isn't there yet, but he's not striking out very much and he's back to hitting the ball to all fields rather than pushing everything.

[Chris O'Leary]

I think that, like Jesse suggests, it depends on whether you've got more important issues to address first. But, I think it's a basic flaw that can be addressed without screwing up the other parts of his swing. But, in that age group, a more common problem is kids not loading up into the swing plane (or not loading at all), and I'd probably tackle that first if it's a problem.

I haven't worked on loading at all with him, so he probably is leaving some power on the table.


I think that one arm (bottom arm, that is) swing drills can be a nice way to gradually enhnace his swing and slip a young hitter away from bat drag. Also, hitting into a large, soft object (like a homemade version of a boxing "heavy" bag) can be a good way to check to see if that back/top arm elbow is too far forward (bad) or in a "power-L" (good) at contact.

There's always a little room for improvement -- even for little sluggers with a big home run to their credit. Congrats to the Bambino!

I'll try the botom arm swings with both of my boys.

Thanks.

[STM4UA]

Chris,

Congratulations to your son and your family, what a great day! He will never forget this day. Did you save the ball?

I do one drill to fix any drag problems, the batters press is magic for this age group!

Could you please describe the "batters press"?

Also I am interested in other drills that you guys use to correct bat drag. I've seen alot of discussion of this issue in other threads but very little if any drills to help eliminate this from the swing.

TIA

[Chris O'Leary]

Also I am interested in other drills that you guys use to correct bat drag. I've seen alot of discussion of this issue in other threads but very little if any drills to help eliminate this from the swing.

I am working on a few things with my older son...

1. Turning the hands with the back should (e.g. establish, turn, and maintain the box) and other connection-related cues.

2. Not teaching him to slot the back elbow. We focus on keeping the hands connected to the back shoulder as long as possible and let the back elbow take care of itself.

3. Focusing on getting power from the core, and not the arms.

The bat on the delt/side of the shoulder drill has also helped with my older son, and he is using it as his game swing right now. As Mark H has implied, it probably IS costing him some power. However, right now I'm more concerned with shortening up his swing and focusing on making solid contact and hitting for average. His swinging K's were getting really bad last year, but we have pretty much eliminated that problem. His OBP is north of .850 right now, so I'm happy.

We'll add the power-producing stuff (e.g. load and weight shift) back in later this year or next year.

[Dirtberry]

STM4UK,

The "batters press" is explained in the thread called, good indoor drills or
One armed drills....Worth doing?

Drag initiates from the break down of the hands at initial forward force application.

[STM4UA]

I am working on a few things with my older son...

1. Turning the hands with the back should (e.g. establish, turn, and maintain the box) and other connection-related cues.

2. Not teaching him to slot the back elbow. We focus on keeping the hands connected to the back shoulder as long as possible and let the back elbow take care of itself.

3. Focusing on getting power from the core, and not the arms.

The bat on the delt/side of the shoulder drill has also helped with my older son, and he is using it as his game swing right now. As Mark H has implied, it probably IS costing him some power. However, right now I'm more concerned with shortening up his swing and focusing on making solid contact and hitting for average. His swinging K's were getting really bad last year, but we have pretty much eliminated that problem. His OBP is north of .850 right now, so I'm happy.

We'll add the power-producing stuff (e.g. load and weight shift) back in later this year or next year.

Thanks for the reply. I am currently studying the Englishbey stuff so I know what you are saying about connection, maintaining the box, etc. Could you briefly explain the "bat on the delt/side of the shoulder drill"?

I am currently working with my 14 year old to try and eliminate his bat drag. I have known something wasn't right with his swing for several years now but lacked the knowledge/expertise to identify the problem. I read your bat drag thesis and I must say my son is a poster child for what you described. He has always been a great tee and soft toss hitter and pretty good against live pitching but lately the speed of the pitching he is facing has caught up with him.

Back to your original question that started this thread, I tend to agree with those that say it's never too early to start correcting a swing flaw. I wish I had started correcting my son's a long time ago. I probably wouldn't do anything in season but the next off season might be a good time to start.

[Ursa Major]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ursa Major
I think that, like Jesse suggests, it depends on whether you've got more important issues to address first. But, I think it's a basic flaw that can be addressed without screwing up the other parts of his swing. But, in that age group, a more common problem is kids not loading up into the swing plane (or not loading at all), and I'd probably tackle that first if it's a problem.
Chris O'Leary replied: I haven't worked on loading at all with him, so he probably is leaving some power on the table.Chris, the loading issue isn't just a matter of power. It also can help contribute to early bat speed and cure technique deficiencies. Ursa Minor moved up to 13-14 y/o ball this year, and has had a host of trouble carrying his batting cage swing into games. We're facing some real studs, and he has trouble catching up to the ball. Focusing on his loading doesn't just give him power, but (a) it is a good cue to get his whole process started earlier, and (b), when he does pull the trigger, the bathead gets to the ball faster.

Also, for him and some of our other kids who sometime truncate their loading process, their hip and torso rotation for some reason stops too early, and they end up with arm swings and/or pushing the bottom hand out toward the pitcher, resulting in weak hits to the opposite way.

[Swing Coach]

Hey Chris,

He does bat drag now because he can. These kids think right when they see the ball they need to stat the swing. Problem is the ball is coming in slow. He can't start his hands, or he is done...so he starts to drop the barrel and get his elbows moving in a natural action to keep his hands back. He doesn't understand that he needs to stay still and shortcut to the ball at the last second. Best thing that can happen in coach pitch is the coach throws harder than he thinks he should. It has been proven that kids track a faster ball better anyway. And I have seen amazing results when coaches do this. When my boy was 4-5-6 and I would whip wiffel balls at him, I don't think he had any bat drag. WHen he started t-ball and coach pitch, I think it developed becuse there was no consequence for dropping the hands and starting early. They all think they must rev something up to hit that ball with their arms! And that just won't cut the mustard when they move on to kid-pitch.

Have him stand next to a basketball hoop pole and slo-mo the barel of a plastic bat into it and you will see the problem unfold right before your eyes. You will see his elbows lead and his hands do nothing. At this pole, you can slowly show him and get him to feel the proper use and direction of his hands. While I make no claim to be in the Epstein crowd, he has a couple awesome drills that help bat drag. The one torque drill (I think it is) where the player rests the bat on the back of the arm and tucks his elbow in is an excellent drill for him to get the correct feel of hips and hands. Keeping the elbow tucked eliminates the drag. I had a high school freshman bat this way all winter in the batting cage and it eliminated his drag. He now can put his hands in the proper start place and the bat drag is gone. Whatever you do, I would recommend you get him to wait, wait, wait for the ball before he makes any movement. Working towards this goal will improve his swing greatly now and in the future because he will continue bat drag and it will get more entrenched...and it is harder to cure the older the kids get.

[Chris O'Leary]

Chris, the loading issue isn't just a matter of power. It also can help contribute to early bat speed and cure technique deficiencies. Ursa Minor moved up to 13-14 y/o ball this year, and has had a host of trouble carrying his batting cage swing into games. We're facing some real studs, and he has trouble catching up to the ball. Focusing on his loading doesn't just give him power, but (a) it is a good cue to get his whole process started earlier, and (b), when he does pull the trigger, the bathead gets to the ball faster.

Also, for him and some of our other kids who sometime truncate their loading process, their hip and torso rotation for some reason stops too early, and they end up with arm swings and/or pushing the bottom hand out toward the pitcher, resulting in weak hits to the opposite way.

Interesting thoughts.

My son does load well, perhaps even a bit too much, when he's hitting off a tee. However, he forgets to load when he's in a game situation.

Also, I know that my son has a tendency to cut his swing short, so I am encouraging him to do the Charley Lau one hand finish ala Pujols.