Cookie-Cutter Thread

[stlfan]

Ok, we all know that the cookie-cutter era of stadiums of the 60's and 70's are considered the dark ages of ballpark design. But for those of us that called these places home, we loved them because it was where we went to see our team play. Like our first cars that we got when we were 16, we couldn't help that they weren't the ideal thing we wanted, we loved them anyway and they have a special place in our hearts. Since these parks are all but extinct, let's give these places their due.

Let's share all of our stories and photos of these places we called home.

[StanTheMan]

The former home of the best fans in baseball. I'm not arguing the point, in fact, don't take my word for it, but rather the players themselves, who named St. Louis as the best baseball town in America in a Sports Illustrated Poll a few years back.


42627

42628

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I must have been at a few hundred games there.... mostly in the bleachers, or the box seats. Bob Gibson Day... Check. Lou Brock Day... Check. 1982, 1985, and 1987 World Series.... check. The Cards 100th Anniversary Celebration in 1992... check. After I moved away from St. Louis and to Indianapolis, I went back at least once a year for a very long time. I never did see McGwire play there, and was disspointed in that until the day of his testimony to Congress... now I'm glad I never made the effort to go see him.

I prefer to honor guys like this one instead.


42631

[stlfan]

I was scrolling through all of your nice images of Busch and then all the sudden my heart sank as I saw the photo of the last section before it was tore down completely. Sure, I took many pics of the demolition and I love the new place, but it still breaks my heart seeing images like that. I will post my photos and stories soon.

As for the other places, I can't wait to see photos and hear stories.

[YankeeFanBx]

I can remember being envious of the fans in other cities (Shea included) because they were all getting nice new ballparks and the Yankees were stuck in old ugly Yankee Stadium!
Live and learn. At that time I would have traded Yankee Stadium for a cookie cutter, I was young and a bit slow I guess.

[Yoda]

...................

[DiggerODell]

I've got a question about the new parks in NYC but I didn't think it'd need it's own thread.


As an out of towner it seems interesting to me that both teams are getting a new home at the same time. Is this a coincidence or was one planned initially and then the other team didn't want to be outdone?

Excellent question Yoda! I have often thought of that as well. I look forward to any responses or hypothesis.

[Yoda]

What stadium was planned first?

[stlfan]

I've got a question about the new parks in NYC but I didn't think it'd need it's own thread.


As an out of towner it seems interesting to me that both teams are getting a new home at the same time. Is this a coincidence or was one planned initially and then the other team didn't want to be outdone?
Couldn't this have been asked in the billions of threads created for NYS or Citi Field?

[Gehrig27]

The Yankees had been trying to get a new stadium since the 80's and especially after a beam fell in 98'. It was about that time that both teams made some proposals (for retractable roof stadiums) but they fell through until about 3 years ago. I'm not too sure about the coincidence of both teams trying to build a new park at the same time but both parks were looking pretty run down around the same time, so plans were proposed at the same time.

[Mario Mendoza...HOF Lock]

Three Rivers pre and post demolition exterior

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2248/2497796839_3af1f5a01d_o.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2045/2498623054_7c468f7d45_o.jpg

Busch
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2418/2497796311_8029c36a13_o.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2368/2498620228_93d4272e43_o.jpg

Veterans
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3128/2497795791_61942af343_o.jpg

1970 under construction, with the Spectrum and JFK stadium in the background. CBP now sits to the left of the Vet & the Spectrum.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3097/2497796259_b40fb61d7c_o.jpg

1974 opening day
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2295/2497795451_6871fc0fd6_o.jpg


Riverfront
1975 World Series
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3152/2497795125_37e4168819_o.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3020/2497794863_75cf647fa1_o.jpg

[Mario Mendoza...HOF Lock]

Atlanta Fulton County Stadium

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2381/2498620704_9d496a385c_o.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2221/2497794451_5c720d36dd_o.jpg

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/1/1127286_69ebbe9728_o.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2054/2349056662_968a33cc94_o.jpg

RFK

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2099/2498621384_cf8c01ac44_o.jpg

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1058/1421121770_357bda0975_b.jpg

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/94/256314388_568f2c2713_o.jpg

[stlfan]

Ok, I was able to go through all of my pics of Busch and select the ones I really like. Of course that doesn't mean I won't show a lot.

Busch Memorial Stadium was where I grew up. I remember being six or seven and wanting to walk around and explore the stadium's every nook and cranny. It's where I went with my parents and brother. It's where we walked up many times on opening night, got bleacher seats and froze our butts off and drank hot chocolate. My brother, cousin and I would go to camera night with our parents and get to walk on the outfield of the stadium. We'd get autographs from the players as well as Whitey Herzog. Walking on that astroturf was the coolest thing as a little kid.

Growing up in the 80's in St. Louis as a Cardinals fan was a great time. Going to games and watching players like Ozzie Smith, Jack Clark, Tommy Herr, Willie McGee and Terry Pendelton was a thrill. I never went to playoff games then but the city was such a buzz of excitement in October in 1982, 1985 and 1987.

As I got older I would also go to games with my grandpa. He had company tickets half way up the loge level half way down the first base line between 1st and the foul pole. I would always feel embarrased before the game because he would sing along with Ernie Hayes playing "Meet Me In St. Louie." I'd give anything to relive those times.

I did get to go to a World Series game in 2004. One of my friends, his brother and I had standing room only for game 3. It was a let down but being in the middle of the baseball universe is an experience I will never forget. Nothing beats being at a postseason game.

Some friends of mine and I went to the last regular season game at Busch. It was so bitter sweet. I didn't watch much of the game, just explored and photographed as much as I could, knowing that soon she would be gone forever. We had standing room only. I brought my late grandpa's hat with all of his pins on it so that in a way, he was there with me to see the last regular season game that early October Sunday afternoon. Once the last out was recorded and the Cardinals won, the organization had a 2 hour long ceremony to celebrate those who played in and worked at this home for Cardinal baseball for 40 years. I don't think anyone in attendence left before the ceremony was over.

So, here are photos of Busch Memorial Stadium, in life and in death.

The 1st photo was taken in the late 80's or early 90's. The rest were taken in the early 2000's.

[stlfan]

Here are a few more from the early 2000's.

[stlfan]

Photos from the last regular season game.

The first one is of the 1st pitch by Matt Morris. The second is after Ozzie Smith pulled off the last number in the countdown. The third is of the final out, a strike out by Jason Isringhausen. It took several photos until I got the final out since I took a photo of every pitch after the second out was recorded. The last photo is of the manual scoreboard with the final score of the game. This board, along with the out of town scoreboards are at Busch III, with everything kept as it looked once the final out was recorded. If you look at the out of town boards today, several games are not finished being scored because they weren't done at the conclusion of the Cardinals game. In a sense these score boards have frozen a moment in time.

[stlfan]

More from the final regular season game.

The first photo is of the famous Budweiser Clydestales making their last lap around the ballpark once the game was over. The second is of many former Cardinals who played at Busch II gathered on the field for the ceremonies. The last says it all. The sun sets on the final season at Busch Memorial Stadium.

[stlfan]

Ok, here are the sad ones. Busch Memorial Stadium in death.

The first is looking inside in late October as they started taking the seats out. The second was taken November 10th, 2005. The last 2 were taken November 19th, 2005. I went down to take photos of the demolition at least twice a week. The last one is one of my favorite shots I took during the demolition.

[stlfan]

More photos of the demolition.

The first is looking into the stadium from the pedestrian bridge on November 21st, 2005. The pedestrian bridge is the only surviving portion on the stadium. Sure it actually isn't "part" of the stadium but the concrete styling of it is an extention of the stadium in my mind. The second photo was taken of me on November 24th, 2005 - Thanksgiving. The last photo is on December 7th, 2005. The night the last section fell. It's so sad seeing it there, waiting to come down.

[banko]

thx, STLFAN.

'Heart-wrenching' stuff.

The hospital where I was born is now gone.

The home where I grew-up is now gone.

My elementary school is now gone.

My junior high school is now gone.

My high school is now gone.

The neighborhood theater and the drive-in are now gone.

But, I think the greatest 'loss of place' for a boy (it was for me) is when they tear-down the ballpark where you spent the summers of innocent youth.

For me, now 60, it will always remain a tragedy of the highest order, as I can still vividly remember, a half-century ago, walking into Sick's Seattle Stadium...buying a program (and pencil...to score the game. Learning to score was such a GREAT achievement for a 10-year-old)...and ascending the stairs...and then gazing on that perfectly-manicured emerald field, with the fresh white lime almost glistening.

To this day, I can smell the cigar smoke...and taste the hot dogs and Crackerjack.

To this day.

Although it 'tore my gut out', I made it a point to be at the ballpark when they tore it down.

If I hadn't it would have been like staying away from an old friend's deathbed.

I am obviously not alone in this sentiment. BBF is a GREAT and comprehensive site. And, guess what, THIS forum consistently has the greatest readership.

Until I found it, I always thought that I was alone in my love of our contemporary 'temples', where the great religion of baseball is practiced...and the true Latter-Day Saints worshiped.

thx again (for ripping my heart out).

[JWB13]

stlfan, I was also at the final regular season game. What a day. One of my favorite parts was the reception Keith Hernandez got when he was introduced. It was great to hear all of those cheers for him. I was glad to see Cards fans had let go of the hate they had for him when he was with the Mets.

I wish I could find a copy of the pic they took of all those players in front of the Clydesdales. That would make an awesome wallpaper.

[Lafferty Daniel]

Busch II appeared to be in decent shape prior to demolition so was there any effort to renovate it?

[Lpeters199]

Since it wasn't completely enclosed, does Shea Stadium qualify as a cookie cutter?

42689

[stlfan]

Busch II appeared to be in decent shape prior to demolition so was there any effort to renovate it?

Laferty, they had HOK come up with some concepts of renovating Busch II. I wasn't wild about them. Busch II looked great on the surface her last years, but behind the scenes the intrastructure and concrete were showing it's age. I posted pictures of the renovation concepts on another thread. I made a thread called Busch 2.5 and Busch 3.

Lpeters99, yes Shea is considered a "cookie-cutter."

[curb my enthusiasm]

Riverfront Stadium might have been the ugliest stadium ever on the inside. I remember watching the 1990 World Series on TV, and all I could think to myself was how depressing it looked.

Does anybody have some decent pictures of Riverfront before center field was opened up for construction of the new ballpark?

[StanTheMan]

I took this photo at a game in about 2004 or 2005. Buscstarted out life as a Cookie Cutter, but finished life as a "ballpark."

I resized the photo... but I think It still might come out huge. Sorry.

42691

stlfan.. GREAT story about grandpa's hat. I'll add my own little story to the collection. The first ever REAL alcoholic drink I ever had was at Busch Stadium. Sure, I sipped Dad's beer before, but only when he was around, and when he offered.

But a drink when Mom and Dad were NOT around? Never done that, until one night at Busch Stadium. I was camping out for World Sereis tickets in 1985 with two neighborhood buddies, my Dad, one of their Dads, an aunt and uncle or two, etc. Late that night, about 9 or 10, my buddies and I decided to go walk around the stadium for a while, people watch, etc. There were whiffle ball games going on, card games, music, etc. The line circled the stadium and then brankced out into the surrounding sidewalks... there were people and fun, everywhere. Millions of Cardinal fans from around the midwest would have given their right arms to trade places with us, and we all knew it. You felt like a "somebody," and priveledged. So we walk around the park a few times and one guy kept offering a drink to everyone who walked by. He was trashed (we reallly did not know what trashed was... we just thought he had been drinking and was weird) and after about the thrid time by, one of my buddies took him up on the drink offer. He said it tasted great, and off we scampered, probably giggling, but not too loudly, we certainly did not want to look like idiots.

Next time by, he took another drink, as did me and my other buddy. It was Peach Schnapps, right out of the bottle. He probably cut it down with some OJ or some 7-Up or something. Next time by? Sip again. And the next time and the next. Fueled by juicy peach goodness, we were stopping and talking to girls and having a great time. We must have walked around the stadium and explored the lines for about 4 or 5 hours. We were 14. I remember the weather being great that night.... very unlike camping out for Series tickets in 2004. I woke up to go to the restroom at about 3 Am that night, and saw the temperature on a nearby bank sign.. it read 44 degrees.

[alpineinc]

Since it wasn't completely enclosed, does Shea Stadium qualify as a cookie cutter?

42689

Hey, where'd you get that great shot? That should go in the Shea thread too.

[whoisonit]

Hey, where'd you get that great shot? That should go in the Shea thread too.

Isn't that a neat shot ? She looks so ... majestic ! The cars are neat too.
I'm curious about it because the lot is full, but the Shea is vacant !

[Lpeters199]

Hey, where'd you get that great shot? That should go in the Shea thread too.
The Shea pic came from one of the National Archives' sites. I used the Basic Materials box and found some good stuff. Don't know about the Advanced Materials search. You're welcome to post it in the Shea thread if you'd like. Again, does Shea qualify as a cookie cutter?

http://arcweb.archives.gov/arc/arc_home.jsp

[Mario Mendoza...HOF Lock]

More Riverfront

1970
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2176/2184554762_1e715bfcd5_b.jpg

1980
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/50/110006713_5aba7e8f86_o.jpg

2002
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/231/461185439_2da9e32dfd_o.jpg

1980
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/35/101525174_44601d8c49_o.jpg

1992
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2056/2192426425_c3bdc0ac9e_o.jpg

1992
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2159/2193214414_66c50b80d3_o.jpg

Still fully enclosed
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3047/2498964075_322d3e3c3f_o.jpg


Latter day incarnations
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2040/2169943515_87a5124340_o.jpg

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/21/95247398_84e62cd453_b.jpg

[curb my enthusiasm]

The 1992 pictures prove my point. Why did they choose a dark olive green to go up against the gray cement? What an ugly combination.:eek:

Also, I used to watch lots of Mets and Braves games on TV. When the Mets and Braves played night games in Riverfront, Veterans, or Three Rivers, if you didn't know any better, you would have thought that those were domed stadiums.

The best of the cookie-cutters was Busch. After renovating it, it looked like a very nice ballpark. Of course I'm sure that the new one is better, but it's surprising how good the old one looked.

[J.R.]

Lots of people liked what the Cards did with the upper deck toward the end. I thought it was sad, such a good baseball town - no slams intended - with thousands of seats tarped over, even for playoff games.

It's a travesty that they left that stuff up during the postseason. Thousands of fans stuck at home, their seats occupied by blank scoreboards.

[jimmyjimjimz]

The 1992 pictures prove my point. Why did they choose a dark olive green to go up against the gray cement? What an ugly combination.:eek:

Also, I used to watch lots of Mets and Braves games on TV. When the Mets and Braves played night games in Riverfront, Veterans, or Three Rivers, if you didn't know any better, you would have thought that those were domed stadiums.

The best of the cookie-cutters was Busch. After renovating it, it looked like a very nice ballpark. Of course I'm sure that the new one is better, but it's surprising how good the old one looked.

haha I thought Fulton County Stadium had a roof till I saw the pics here earlier this morning.

[Yankees73]

Boy were those parks ugly... The only cookie cutter I sat in was the dump off the Van Wyck. The Mets have been in Dire need of a new park since the late seventies.. I can't imagine sitting in the upper deck in left center at Riverfront. You were better off watching the World Series on TV!! I remember in the early 90s when the Pirates were in the playoffs and they couldn't sell out.. Not real hard to figure out. Hopefully those multi purpose disasters will never return..

[Chevy114]

I like the parking garage under cinergy!

[Philtration]

Growing up in Chicago I always felt sorry for the fans who had the cookie cutter stadiums. It seemed so alien to me.
I think that Bush was the best of the cookie cutters but only after they went back to natural grass.
I guess that the arches around the roof line is what gave it a different look but I really hated these places.
How about Olympic Stadium? What a god awful mess that was!
That had to be the most depressing place ever to see a MLB game.

http://www.ballparksofbaseball.com/nl/oly920.jpg

http://www.ballparksofbaseball.com/nl/oly741.jpg

[Philtration]

Think about those killer Reds teams of the 1970s playing in that absurd ballpark.
A team with so much tradition calling that home was unreal.
Same thing for the Pirates.
What a contrast when the Reds played the Yankees in the 1977 World Series.
The Reds may have kicked their ass on the field but the Yankees had the better field by far.

[Yoda]

I've been to the metrodome once.


I thought it was fun, but if I had to see my team there all the time I might not like it so much.

[Astros4Life]

I have always thought that Bush was the best looking cookie cutter, even in pictures before it was renovated it still looked like a nice place...maybe it was the roof design

[alpineinc]

It doesn't really show off the "cookie cutter" design that much, but these DC Stadium/RFK shots were too cool to pass up - '62 All-Star Game, JFK (and LBJ) throwing out the first ball:

http://media.nara.gov/media/images/4/1/04-0072a.gif

And not to be outdone, Nixon doing the honors in 1969:

http://media.nara.gov/media/images/30/2/30-0177a.gif

[Chevy114]

Growing up in Chicago I always felt sorry for the fans who had the cookie cutter stadiums. It seemed so alien to me.
I think that Bush was the best of the cookie cutters but only after they went back to natural grass.
I guess that the arches around the roof line is what gave it a different look but I really hated these places.
How about Olympic Stadium? What a god awful mess that was!
That had to be the most depressing place ever to see a MLB game.

http://www.ballparksofbaseball.com/nl/oly920.jpg

http://www.ballparksofbaseball.com/nl/oly741.jpg

Im not sure whats worse knowing that the roof should be retractable but never worked right or having a field built on an expo hall. Man that place looked lifeless!

[btown12]

Growing up in Chicago I always felt sorry for the fans who had the cookie cutter stadiums. It seemed so alien to me.


There's no need to feel sorry, those of us who grew up going to these cookie cutters didn't know any different. The most important part was the team that was on the field. And I guarantee you that at the end of the year, as excited as Mets fans will be to open a new park, it will be the hardest thing for them to realize they can't go to Shea and see their Mets play there anymore. I went through it with the Phils and yes, I love Citizens Bank Park, but it doesn't make me love or miss the Vet any less.

And as far as Busch goes, I agree with the fact that the renovations towards the end of it's life definitely gave it a more intimate ballpark feel. However, they had the benefit of not having to still share their stadium with a football team for the last 10 years or so, a luxury some of the other tenants of cookie cutters did not have.

[Chevy114]

I guess I do think of Tampa Stadium (the old bucs football field) when people talk cookie cutters. Nothing that special about it, other than it was ours and we had good memories there. It was all concrete, even the seats you sat on, no individual seats just numbers on slabs of concrete bleachers, and no views or breezes.

I was so happy to get a new stadium as a kid, but man do we have fun talking about the old one sometimes. I never felt bad for wanting a new stadium, I just feel bad that I can't relive those memories every now and then. This totally unfesable, but I wish you could do like on video games and play one game or two at the old stadium, just because!

[Lions/Tigers@Cubs.OhMy!]

Sorry, but I'd take this new retro-craze over the concrete donuts any day. That said, it's been three years (?) since Busch Stadium III opened and it's still a gravel pit to the north. What is the latest news on when Wrigleyville err... I mean "redtown" is going to start construction?

It's too late now, but what would have been really cool would have been to take just what is here in this picture below and make three story condos out of it. The crown across the top would be an homage to the old busch stadium and they could have put bay windows just behind the pilars and then brick in the back somehow.
http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh175/rehasty/untitled1234.jpg
I think that structure surrounded by the red brick stores and apartments they're planning on building would have been really really cool... and given the neighborhood a more realistic eclectic feel.

[CitiFieldIsNoShea]

There's no need to feel sorry, those of us who grew up going to these cookie cutters didn't know any different. The most important part was the team that was on the field. And I guarantee you that at the end of the year, as excited as Mets fans will be to open a new park, it will be the hardest thing for them to realize they can't go to Shea and see their Mets play there anymore. I went through it with the Phils and yes, I love Citizens Bank Park, but it doesn't make me love or miss the Vet any less.

Like many Met fans, I know Shea is a dump, but it's our dump. It's really a shame the way management has let it slip into such a terrible state of disrepair and making the last memories of puddles scattered throughout the concourses and toilets that don't work, but the lasting memories will be of the times when the grass couldn't be any greener, the sun no brighter and the day couldn't get any better than one at good old Shea.

A couple of the strangest feelings about the Mets moving into a new ballpark are, getting used to the fact that this new stadium is my new home and my beloved Mets will be taking the field there for, well, probably 40 years or so. Also, going into New Shea and not knowing my way around. My dad was recently telling me a story about how he never worried about me leaving him and going to the bathroom/concession/etc... because I'd always manage to get back some how.

As a big ballpark fan, what I have done in trips to a park for the first time, as I literally walk off the concourse and into the seating bowl, I have my camera out and snap a photo to capture the green of the grass...now if I can only figure out a way to bottle up the smell of the ballpark.

I suppose with enough stale beer and lukewarm hot dogs, I'll have my place smelling like Shea in no time.

[Yoda]

Like many Met fans, I know Shea is a dump, but it's our dump. It's really a shame the way management has let it slip into such a terrible state of disrepair and making the last memories of puddles scattered throughout the concourses and toilets that don't work, but the lasting memories will be of the times when the grass couldn't be any greener, the sun no brighter and the day couldn't get any better than one at good old Shea.

A couple of the strangest feelings about the Mets moving into a new ballpark are, getting used to the fact that this new stadium is my new home and my beloved Mets will be taking the field there for, well, probably 40 years or so. Also, going into New Shea and not knowing my way around. My dad was recently telling me a story about how he never worried about me leaving him and going to the bathroom/concession/etc... because I'd always manage to get back some how.

As a big ballpark fan, what I have done in trips to a park for the first time, as I literally walk off the concourse and into the seating bowl, I have my camera out and snap a photo to capture the green of the grass...now if I can only figure out a way to bottle up the smell of the ballpark.

I suppose with enough stale beer and lukewarm hot dogs, I'll have my place smelling like Shea in no time.



This reads like a W.P. Kinsella passage.

Now I can't wait to see Shea!

[stlfan]

Like many Met fans, I know Shea is a dump, but it's our dump. It's really a shame the way management has let it slip into such a terrible state of disrepair and making the last memories of puddles scattered throughout the concourses and toilets that don't work, but the lasting memories will be of the times when the grass couldn't be any greener, the sun no brighter and the day couldn't get any better than one at good old Shea.

A couple of the strangest feelings about the Mets moving into a new ballpark are, getting used to the fact that this new stadium is my new home and my beloved Mets will be taking the field there for, well, probably 40 years or so. Also, going into New Shea and not knowing my way around. My dad was recently telling me a story about how he never worried about me leaving him and going to the bathroom/concession/etc... because I'd always manage to get back some how.

As a big ballpark fan, what I have done in trips to a park for the first time, as I literally walk off the concourse and into the seating bowl, I have my camera out and snap a photo to capture the green of the grass...now if I can only figure out a way to bottle up the smell of the ballpark.

I suppose with enough stale beer and lukewarm hot dogs, I'll have my place smelling like Shea in no time.

I had the same worries when approaching Busch III. That it wouldn't smell or feel like Busch II. But once I walked in and smelled the hot dogs and brats cooking on the grill, Ernie Hayes playing the organ and the buzz of the crowd, I felt better, I felt at home. The only thing missing at that time was the smell of peanut shells on the ground.

[alpineinc]

I had the same worries when approaching Busch III. That it wouldn't smell or feel like Busch II. But once I walked in and smelled the hot dogs and brats cooking on the grill, Ernie Hayes playing the organ and the buzz of the crowd, I felt better, I felt at home. The only thing missing at that time was the smell of peanut shells on the ground.

I miss the smell of cigar smoke from the old-timers. That'll never come back.

[natron20]

What a contrast when the Reds played the Yankees in the 1977 World Series.
The Reds may have kicked their ass on the field but the Yankees had the better field by far.

The Yanks should hang another banner for that.

Go REDS!

[driver62]

What a contrast when the Reds played the Yankees in the 1977 World Series.

Actually it was the 1976 World Series. Reds beat the Yankees four straight.

[Pelt]

I think there was an even bigger contrast in 1975 between the Reds at Riverfront and the Red Sox in Fenway, as opposed to the renovated YS.

I was four years old and got to attend game 4 in Cincy. The home crowd was booing the Sox during their introduction. I felt sorry for them and began rooting for them... and have ever since.

[Brackish__4]

I think there was an even bigger contrast in 1975 between the Reds at Riverfront and the Red Sox in Fenway, as opposed to the renovated YS.

I was four years old and got to attend game 4 in Cincy. The home crowd was booing the Sox during their introduction. I felt sorry for them and began rooting for them... and have ever since.

That's gay.

[Pelt]

That's gay.

Now, you shouldn't cast that stone. After all, you guys have A-Rod. :)

[Wall-E]

Now, you shouldn't cast that stone. After all, you guys have A-Rod. :)

Whose porking a hot ass wife we all wish we would be banging.

Better him than a stoner who forgets to catch the ball in the outfield sometimes.

[Mario Mendoza...HOF Lock]

Whose porking a hot ass wife we all wish we would be banging.

Better him than a stoner who forgets to catch the ball in the outfield sometimes.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/cf/Curb_gutter_storm_drain.JPG/400px-Curb_gutter_storm_drain.JPG


http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc180/puffmegan/mouth.jpg

[Sean O]

That's gay.


Whose porking a hot ass wife we all wish we would be banging.

Better him than a stoner who forgets to catch the ball in the outfield sometimes.

Stay classy Yankees fans!

Honestly, when people post garbage like this, it amazes me that other Yankees fans are shocked when people hate them.

[Brackish__4]

Stay classy Yankees fans!

Honestly, when people post garbage like this, it amazes me that other Yankees fans are shocked when people hate them.

Do you mean garbage like this?

44941

[Yankees12]

I had the same worries when approaching Busch III. That it wouldn't smell or feel like Busch II. But once I walked in and smelled the hot dogs and brats cooking on the grill, Ernie Hayes playing the organ and the buzz of the crowd, I felt better, I felt at home. The only thing missing at that time was the smell of peanut shells on the ground.

This is what I fear about walking into the new Yankee Stadium for the first time. But I do think that when I see the bleachers creatures doing the roll call, hearing Sinatra after the game, and especially if Bob Sheppard makes it there, it'll feel like home, even if "home" is still across the street.

It's always good to see traditions at an old ballpark be carried into the new one.

As for cookie-cutters, I've seen RFK, the Vet, Riverfront, and Shea in person, and I can say without a doubt that they're the worst 4 parks out of the 17 I've seen in person so far. Riverfront and the Vet were just hideous, Shea is pretty bad although it looked decent up until the 1980s (not that I ever saw that version of Shea - I was born in 1989), and RFK probably looked decent from certain vantage points, but sitting in the very back of the lower deck was absolutely horrible.

I always wished I could have made it out to Busch Stadium - it looked like the one cookie-cutter that, at least by the end of its life, had a true soul and was honestly a ballpark. The new one certainly looks nicer, but Busch Stadium II seemed to genuinely be a ballpark, thanks to the Cardinals' improvements to it. I wish I could have seen a game there, just to see a cookie-cutter that wasn't absolutely soulless, and to see a game in a terrific baseball city (I still want to see a game at new Busch very badly for that reason, along with the fact that it's a pretty nice ballpark). Part of me almost wishes they kept old Busch up though, just so future generations could see what a cookie-cutter was, while still not having a stadium without a heart. Still, new Busch is an improvement.

That said, I'm glad to see the age of the cookie cutter ending come 2011, when Oakland (hopefully) moves into their new park (which should be extremely nice). If my count is right, 9 down, 2 to go...

(It's weird to think that this time next year, there will only be one cookie-cutter left in baseball.)

[Sean O]

Do you mean garbage like this?

44941

Can we have a basic reading or IQ test when you sign up for this website, so inbred children like this don't bother the adults?

Honestly, these idiots don't realize that they're disgracing everyone else who supports their team.

[Pelt]

Here is the Big Red Machine in Riverfront. Wow, what a team that was!

http://img258.imageshack.us/img258/2961/75redsvo1.jpg

[J.R.]

The park is clean, and the red seats are actually red instead of faded pink. I never saw her like that.

[stlfan]

Pelt got me hooked on Corbis. I couldn't find any threads for Busch II so I figured I'd put these in this thread. The first photo is awesome of Harry Caray. The caption from Corbis reads.

"'Holy Cow! Jack. It might be, it could be...It is!!! A hot night in beautiful Busch Stadium!' With 47,000 fans in the stands, and the evening temperature at 100 degrees, Harry Caray, St. Louis Baseball Cardinal announcer, was caught stripped down to his underwear while announcing Cards-Astros game here 7/9. Caray is noted for his colorful description of a home run, which begins, "Holy cow, Jack..." (Jack Buck, his co-announcer)."

The second photo looks to be of 1966 when they were making the final touches on the stadium.

[tugger]

Here's my ode to the Vet that ran in The Plain Dealer:


One of the last dinosaurs is dying in Philadelphia. The death rattle began last week, noted by The Plain Dealer in a photograph on Saturday’s record page: Veterans Stadium, sans a wedge of superstructure, like a cake after the first slice went to the birthday boy.

But the only celebration likely will be of the dancing-on-the-grave variety when the 33-year-old stadium is imploded Sunday. As with the other cookie-cutter, multipurpose stadiums that opened between 1970 and 1971– Pittsburgh’s Three Rivers and Cincinnati’s Riverfront – the Vet’s dusty demise will be met with a chorus of “Good riddance.”

But not from me. I grew up in South Jersey, minutes away from the Stadium. I passed many happy hours at the Vet with family and friends, watching baseball. The game – that was the attraction. You didn’t go to the Vet for atmosphere.

I went to the first game ever at the Vet. When third baseman Don Money smacked the first homer, it set off the center-field water fountain, sent mechanized mascots Phil and Phyllis into their robotic routine and lit up the faux Liberty Bell. If you were looking for something unique at the Vet, that was about it. And Phil and Phyllis were quietly removed in 1976 to open more premium seating.

But that doesn’t mean every trip was not a treat – and there were lots of trips. My father, as a minister, had a pass that got him into general admission for – ready for this? – 50 cents, the same price as an under-14 ducat.

Sure, we were up in the nose-bleeds, but with my frame of reference being limited to one game each at Connie Mack, Shea and Yankee stadiums, I was not the most discriminating ballpark connoisseur. But my attention was on the field.

Most of the time, anyway. Once my dad had my older brother, Doug, accompany me to the men’s room. We returned in time to see Willie Montanez – Doug’s favorite Phil, rounding third in his home-run trot. The look Doug shot me still chills.

One performance I didn’t miss was an astounding, forgotten gem thrown by Rick Wise against the Cubs in July 1971 (actually, I believe it was in Sept.). Chicago held a 2-0 lead and was threatening to score more with no one out in the second inning. Wise retired the next 32 Cubs in a row – a perfect game plus five – and drove in the winning run in the bottom of the 12th.

By 1980, when the Phils finally reached – and won – the World Series, I was in college in Tulsa, Okla., and trips to the Vet were limited to summer break. But two stand out.

In the last game before the 1981 strike, Pete Rose needed two hits to break Stan Musial’s National League hit record. The Astros were in town, and the pitching matchup was Steve Carlton vs. Nolan Ryan. Musial and Mays were in the stands. Rose – of all people – dubbed it “Hall of Fame Night.”

Pete led off the bottom of the first with a double, tying Musial’s mark. It was the only hit Ryan allowed until the eighth inning. He struck out Rose three straight times, the last time in the eighth. Ryan twisted his back when the next batter singled up the middle – the Phils’ second hit of the night. Ryan left the game to thunderous applause before his teammates pointed his attention to the home dugout. At the top of the step was Rose, tipping his cap to Ryan. Ryan returned the gesture. I never was a Rose fan, but that scene gives me major-league goose bumps, still.

The Phillies rallied to take the lead in the eighth, but Rose did not bat again. When Tug McGraw came in to close the game, fans were rooting for the Astros to tie it and give Rose another shot at the mark.

The other game never actually started. On a hot August night in 1979, my buddy Gibby and I went to see the Cardinals. Just before game time, a heavy thunderstorm hit. During the delay, St. Louis’ Pete Vuckovich – yeah, the same guy who played hated Yankee Klu Haywood in “Major League,” emerged from the dugout in stocking feet and put on a tarp-sliding exhibition.

Looked like fun. After five, 10, 20 fans jumped the fence to join in, undisturbed by an unusually relaxed security force, I removed my shoes, ditched my wallet (probably empty, anyway), and hit the tarp running. Best time you can have with your pants on.

Now the Vet’s hours are dwindling. Built before owners understood how much they could squeeze the cities fortunate enough to have them, before luxury suites became the tail that wagged the dog, it lacked charm, ambiance, personality. All it could offer was the game, at $1 total for a dad and his kid. Seemed like a pretty good deal at the time.

[Pelt]

The first of the cookie-cutters, RFK, under construction:

[Cool Papa B.]

Would Oakland-Alameda County Coliseum (home of the Oakland A's & Raiders) and Shea Stadium in New York be considered cookie-cutter stadium? And how many Cookie-Cutter stadiums are left?

[Shadly]

Busch and Atlanta Fulton were not complete architectual wastes. Aesthetically, they were very interesting brutalist structures.

[DrBear]

If I had to count cookie-cutters, I would say the only two left are Oakland and Toronto (a cookie cutter design despite its retractable roof) Shea was 80 percent of a cookie cutter, missing only the outfield seats. Oakland also missed the upper outfield seats but had moveable sections for baseball and football.

note: I define "cookie cutter" as a stadium of roughly circular design with moveable seats to host baseball and other sports.

[dknights411]

We can't really have a cookie-cutter thread without talking about the 8th wonder of the world, the Houston Astrodome! Even though it was a cookie-cuter, full of that fake Astroturf, and indoors to boot, it was surprisingly a great place to watch a ballgame.

http://www.johnnyroadtrip.com/cities/houston/images/astrodome.jpg

http://www.pcballpark.com/Ballparks/astrodome2.jpg

[bnbusser]

Can we have a basic reading or IQ test when you sign up for this website, so inbred children like this don't bother the adults?

Honestly, these idiots don't realize that they're disgracing everyone else who supports their team.

I TOTALLY agree... why is it people act like they are 12?

[bnbusser]

The first of the cookie-cutters, RFK, under construction:

can you believe that IDIOT owner of the Redskins now wants to demolish RFK stadium.... demolish 10 year old FedEx field and build a new domed stadium on the RFK site.... apparently one problem with FedEx is the traffic for skins games..... with this economy I say to Snyder... GOOD LUCK CHUMP!

[PeteU]

can you believe that IDIOT owner of the Redskins now wants to demolish RFK stadium.... demolish 10 year old FedEx field and build a new domed stadium on the RFK site.... apparently one problem with FedEx is the traffic for skins games..... with this economy I say to Snyder... GOOD LUCK CHUMP!

Well, the Miami Arena lasted as the home of the Heat for all of 11 years before the AAA was built. And now it lies in a pile of rubble in downtown Miami.

I have heard traffic is horrible at FedEx. Actually traffic in the DC area is just horrible in general. Plus I don't believe there is an onsite Metro Station at FedEx like there was at RFK, and if you want to get somewhere in DC the Metro is always the best way to go.

FedEx itself is rather bland, uninspiring and impersonal. But it's a football stadium, and face it, football (or any other sports) stadiums are just not anywhere near as intriguing and interesting as baseball parks.

[Chevy114]

2 questions:
1. were people excited about cookie cutters? I mean I know there was some excitment or they wouldn't have been built but I mean real excitment? Did they say this is the greatest possible thing ever or was it like wow we are cheap and need to combine two in one?

2. Are people really made about 10 year old stadiums being replaced? I don't get what all the fuss is about them being outdated. Anybody who has been to a stadium renovated or built from 1980 to 1993 (pre-camden) knows why 10 years isn't the normal 10 years. Like how my brother is 3 years older than me (28 and 25) and his generation hates comptuers and cell phones but my generation has the best of both. We saw such a drastic improvements on what a stadium could be with camden. So I am not that offended nor do I questions America's priorities when they are tired of those stadiums.

[Pelt]

2 questions:
1. were people excited about cookie cutters? I mean I know there was some excitment or they wouldn't have been built but I mean real excitment? Did they say this is the greatest possible thing ever or was it like wow we are cheap and need to combine two in one?

I grew up watching the Big Red Machine, at Riverfront Stadium, in the 70's. I never had a bad experience watching a game there. In fact, I loved going to games there, even after my dad moved our family to Indianapolis in the mid-80's. I have a fondness for cookie-cutters, because they were innovative and served a purpose, being multi-purpose (Which actually turned me on to stadium design, when I was a kid). I wouldn't say folks were "excited" about them though.

2. Are people really made about 10 year old stadiums being replaced? I don't get what all the fuss is about them being outdated. Anybody who has been to a stadium renovated or built from 1980 to 1993 (pre-camden) knows why 10 years isn't the normal 10 years. Like how my brother is 3 years older than me (28 and 25) and his generation hates comptuers and cell phones but my generation has the best of both. We saw such a drastic improvements on what a stadium could be with camden. So I am not that offended nor do I questions America's priorities when they are tired of those stadiums.

I think what the deal is there, is that massive amounts of tax dollars are being wasted. If people are going to foot the majority of a bill for a multi-million dollar facility, then it's more than reasonable to expect that facility to last more than a decade. The Pyramid Arena in Memphis was built in 1991 and only got about 13 years of good use, until the Tigers and Grizzlies moved to the FedEx Forum, in 2004. The Pyramid has been sitting empty ever since and the last I heard, they were considering turning it into a Bass Pro Shop.

[Pelt]

can you believe that IDIOT owner of the Redskins now wants to demolish RFK stadium.... demolish 10 year old FedEx field and build a new domed stadium on the RFK site.... apparently one problem with FedEx is the traffic for skins games..... with this economy I say to Snyder... GOOD LUCK CHUMP!

Snyder is rich. If he wants to pay for the whole thing, then let him. And even if he does, he is still an idiot. :p

[bnbusser]

Snyder is rich. If he wants to pay for the whole thing, then let him. And even if he does, he is still an idiot. :p

I concur! I would like to see him try and fly that proposal by the taxpayers... I know RFK had its problems, as well as YS, Shea, old Comiskey... BUT teams lose that mystique when they move out of old cozy stadiums - arenas... perfect example are the Canadiens in hockey, the Leafs, Bruins and Blackhawks... for the most part teams are not afraid to go into the new arenas anymore... IMO that is what happened to the Redskins too (that and bad management) teams HATED going to RFK, Chicago stadium the Boston garden etc... and those places had a distinct advantage for the home team.

[Milwaukee County Stadium]

can you believe that IDIOT owner of the Redskins now wants to demolish RFK stadium.... demolish 10 year old FedEx field and build a new domed stadium on the RFK site.... apparently one problem with FedEx is the traffic for skins games..... with this economy I say to Snyder... GOOD LUCK CHUMP!

Why the hell don't they just give RFK Stadium a big renovation, to modernize it. I mean it is basicly the home of Washington Redskins Football History.

[bnbusser]

Why the hell don't they just give RFK Stadium a big renovation, to modernize it. I mean it is basicly the home of Washington Redskins Football History.

seating was only 55,000 for football, and they want some 90,000 seating for an eventual super bowl... they can't expand RFK that big... plus its outdated and no room for luxury suites etc...

[Chevy114]

I grew up watching the Big Red Machine, at Riverfront Stadium, in the 70's. I never had a bad experience watching a game there. In fact, I loved going to games there, even after my dad moved our family to Indianapolis in the mid-80's. I have a fondness for cookie-cutters, because they were innovative and served a purpose, being multi-purpose (Which actually turned me on to stadium design, when I was a kid). I wouldn't say folks were "excited" about them though.



I think what the deal is there, is that massive amounts of tax dollars are being wasted. If people are going to foot the majority of a bill for a multi-million dollar facility, then it's more than reasonable to expect that facility to last more than a decade. The Pyramid Arena in Memphis was built in 1991 and only got about 13 years of good use, until the Tigers and Grizzlies moved to the FedEx Forum, in 2004. The Pyramid has been sitting empty ever since and the last I heard, they were considering turning it into a Bass Pro Shop.

Good to know people liked those cookie cutters! I agree with the tax money situation, even worse the bucs are still getting tax money for a stadium we opened 10 years ago. They built a beautiful practice facility with it, but I am not sure what else they are doing with that half cent sales tax money they still get.

[MontanaJim74]

Good to know people liked those cookie cutters! I agree with the tax money situation, even worse the bucs are still getting tax money for a stadium we opened 10 years ago. They built a beautiful practice facility with it, but I am not sure what else they are doing with that half cent sales tax money they still get.

add my name to the list of those who support cookie cutters. id gladly take watching a game in one of them in the 80's over todays ballparks which are filled with too many ads and gimmicks. and i really hate that stupid electronic ribbon that they have on the facing of the upper deck of every stadium today.

[Kentonio]

I have been to the Vet, Three Rivers, and RFK. Only Three Rivers I felt was nice..well taken care of, bright and cheery, and very enjoyable. I felt the Vet and RFK were dumps. Still happy I went and experienced all three.

[Cool Papa B.]

I grew in the 70's- a time when the cookie-cutter stadium was in style. My team-the yankees- didn't play in a cookie cutter stadium so I've never experienced watching a game in one. The biggest criticism that I've heard is that because the goal was to have at least two different sports using the facility, some sections of seating would be good for one sport and bad for the other. Is that true? I read somewhere that the Astrodome actually had a college basketball game there (UCLA vs. U. of Houston). I can't imagine watching a basketball game there.

And also, they all look so much alike. The nice thing about these new ballparks is that they all are different and stand out (at least most of them do)

[Cool Papa B.]

Would the MetroDome be considered a Cookie-Cutter stadium?

[Pelt]

I don't consider it a cookie-cutter. Just a different multi-purpose style.

[Kentonio]

The current stadiums, while all generally beautiful with awesome amenites and design, are all beginning to look the same to me. How much different is, say, Comerica (Tigers) than Citizens Bank (Phillies)?

[Cool Papa B.]

The current stadiums, while all generally beautiful with awesome amenites and design, are all beginning to look the same to me. How much different is, say, Comerica (Tigers) than Citizens Bank (Phillies)?

I agree some of the new ballparks are beginning to look alike thanks to the HOK monopoly on stadium design, but so many of them are unique and have a lot of character. Like New Yankee Stadium, Camden Yards, New Twins Ballpark. Also the new parks are so much more closer to the stadium and the players compared to the cookie cutters of yesteryear. Everyone is going back to the pre- 1970 ball parks. smaller, intimate and closer to the action.

[BombersRock]

The current stadiums, while all generally beautiful with awesome amenites and design, are all beginning to look the same to me. How much different is, say, Comerica (Tigers) than Citizens Bank (Phillies)?

Well, for one thing, Comerica is much more spread out than CBP. But I see your point, too many stadiums (New Yankee Stadium not included) are starting to look like the same HOK product.

[Kentonio]

Well, for one thing, Comerica is much more spread out than CBP. But I see your point, too many stadiums (New Yankee Stadium not included) are starting to look like the same HOK product.

Exactly.. thats what I meant.

[Dougman59]

I grew in the 70's- a time when the cookie-cutter stadium was in style. My team-the yankees- didn't play in a cookie cutter stadium so I've never experienced watching a game in one. The biggest criticism that I've heard is that because the goal was to have at least two different sports using the facility, some sections of seating would be good for one sport and bad for the other. Is that true? I read somewhere that the Astrodome actually had a college basketball game there (UCLA vs. U. of Houston). I can't imagine watching a basketball game there.

And also, they all look so much alike. The nice thing about these new ballparks is that they all are different and stand out (at least most of them do)

Yes the astrodome did have a basketball game. It was a very significant game at the time and I beleive it was nationally televisived during primetime hours. Good footage can be found on a HBO documentary about the UCLA
dynasty. Image however "courtside seats" about 100-150 feet away!

[Chevy114]

HOK builds stadiums the same because no one asks for anything different. The casual fan just ohhhh pretty I want one. We say nooooooo think of something original. The Rays wanted a cool stadium from HOK that didn't look HOKish, but funding fell through. So Im sure if your paying 500 million on a stadium your getting everything you want, the way you want.

[Chevy114]

Yes the astrodome did have a basketball game. It was a very significant game at the time and I beleive it was nationally televisived during primetime hours. Good footage can be found on a HBO documentary about the UCLA
dynasty. Image however "courtside seats" about 100-150 feet away!

I love how the crowd was so far away in that game that the players litterally couldn't hear the crowd until 5 seconds after the play had already happened. I think that was the first time people realized they needed temp. bleachers and a closer court.

[Cool Papa B.]

I was searching the internet, and I ran across the encyclopedic definition of the cookie cutter stadium. What do you guys think of this:

Cookie cutter stadiums are stadiums built primarily in the 1960s and 1970s in the United States, designed for use by multiple teams playing baseball, American football, and soccer. They have also been called "concrete donuts". Robert F. Kennedy Memorial Stadium, informally known as RFK Stadium (or just RFK), is a professional sports stadium in the United States. ... The 1960s decade refers to the years from January 1, 1960 to December 31, 1969, inclusive. ... The 1970s decade refers to the years from 1970 to 1979, inclusive. ... A view of the playing field at Busch Stadium II St. ... United States simply as football, is a competitive team sport that is both fast-paced and strategic. ... Look up Football in Wiktionary, the free dictionary. ... A chocolate-glazed doughnut A doughnut, or donut, is a deep-fried piece of dough or batter. ...


Most of these stadiums were open-air, but some were domed. Nearly all, at one time, had Astroturf playing surfaces. And they had a reputation for looking pretty much identical, like cookies from a cookie cutter. All exhibited a round (or rounded-square) grandstand design and similar field layouts. From the spectator standpoint, their circular nature made them ideal for none of the sports contained within them, due to having so many seats so far away from the action. It is fair to say that they "seemed like a good idea at the time", as most public comments about them were neutral at worst. It was a few years later, as their newness wore off, that the criticisms began to mount. During the 1990s and 2000s, they have been demolished one by one and replaced with "retro" style ballparks, which themselves have been criticized[1] for being clones of the original "retro" park, Camden Yards in Baltimore.

[Chevy114]

My issue with that defination is that cookie cutters don't seem like a good place to watch either football or baseball. At least the retro parks although simliar are a great place to watch baseball.

[Dodgeboy]

To me, a cookie-cutter would be a round(ish) stadium that was designed from the start for baseball and football. Moveable field-level seating, Jack-of all-trades, master of none.

"Classic" Cookie Cutters: RKF, Shea, Three Rivers, The Vet, The Murph, Riverfront, Fulton County, and Busch II, along with their domed brothers Astrodome, Kingdome, and Skydome.

Oakland Coliseum, Cleveland, and Baltimore weren't "true" cookie cutters, but were very large stadiums with enough room for any size/shape of sports field. In some ways they're worse, since even the field level seats had bad sightlines and were far from the action.

Baseball Stadiums modified/expanded for football: Angels Stadium and Candlestick Park. These were decent ballparks designed first and foremost for baseball, just enclosed and "beatin' with an ugly stick" for football. The Met sort of fits in here too.

Football Stadiums modified for baseball: Metrodome, Dolphin Stadium, and Mile High. These are designed first and foremost as good football stadiums, with the lower level seats on one sideline folding up to make room for the baseball outfield. The upper deck seats are closer to the field, but at a worse angle toward the infield, since they look straight ahead at the outfield.

[Cool Papa B.]

I hope one or two cookie-cutter stadiums are preserved and kept in use. Sort of the way some old style ballparks are still in use like Wrigley and Fenway. They can become a reminder of yesteryear; how the game was watch way back when.

[mrakbaseball]

.
Football Stadiums modified for baseball: Metrodome, Dolphin Stadium, and Mile High. These are designed first and foremost as good football stadiums, with the lower level seats on one sideline folding up to make room for the baseball outfield. The upper deck seats are closer to the field, but at a worse angle toward the infield, since they look straight ahead at the outfield.

Mile High Stadium began life in 1948 as minor league ballpark Bears Stadium.