Upset, Frustrated and Ready to Yank [Archive]

5LilPlayers

05-16-2008, 12:33 PM

Details:

12U team, rec. league.

The coach has stated his goals at the first practice:
1. Have fun.
2. Be a *real* team/buddies.
3. Win.

While the coach has stressed that winning isn't the main goal for my son's team, he yells at the kids almost constantly. There has already been one father ready to pull his son...coach did apologize for his yelling so the boy stayed...but I'm ready to yank mine.

90% of the team is comprised of 1st time players or those who've only played t-ball before. The coach is FINALLY realizing this now (after asking at the very first practice how many have played and for how long!!) and is trying to figure out the best "game plan" for practices and games.

He will TELL the kids to do something once and yell if they don't do it right. He has NEVER shown them "what" to do/"how" to do it. They have their first game tonight...tournament before official play starts Tuesday...and I'm really scared we're going to lose. Not a big deal...but these kids are not ready at all.

He hasn't played any of the boys at any position, has only "corrected" their pitching by telling them "no side arm", warm-ups consist of the boys pairing off and throwing to each other from 10 ft. apart, and he has a horrible view of women.

(Um...I'm doing this as I think of things, forgive me if this is a bit jumbled)

We were told that the first game was tentatively scheduled for May 19th. Upon finding out that our first game is the 20th, one of the mothers sinply asked "So, they're not playing Monday, then?" (it was really more of a statement than a question - hard to type tone of voice, of course). The coach? "I SAID that the 19th was the TENTITIVE first game date!" (yelled it so loud at the mom that players on the next nearest field...approx. a football field's length away...heard him). There is only ONE dad who's there faithfully, the rest of the parents are moms out there...cold, rainy, whatever, we tough it out to watch even just the practices to show our support.

At another practice, he yelled at one of the boys for "throwing like a little girl" (being a mom of a decent 9 yr. old FEMALE pitcher, he almost got a bat up his...er...well...)....

Last night's practice was a disaster. The coach did call out the plays (runner on first, no outs or runner on second with 2 outs, etc.) but the boys still had no idea where to throw to, half of them weren't even paying attention. I've seen 5-6 yr. old little girls in the outfield at softball practices with longer attention spans. They consistantly made bad plays, just plain stood there after getting the ball because they weren't sure where to throw to, etc.

I go every time. Last night, I was tossing balls to the kids before practice just to get 'em loose (many were in t-shirts, a couple in shorts, and it was windy and rainy)...once the coach got on the field, he completely ignored me. He ultimately said that he'd like 5 co-coaches...2 dad's did volunteer, my son volunteered me...he has yet to ask my help, even though I know he needs it. I missed one practice due to one of our other children being sick and the second my husband got out there, the coach asked him to pitch BP. Last night, me with my glove on, husband there with our youngest on his lap. The coach seeing me play with the kids beforehand, glove still on...he asks my HUSBAND to pitch BP again.

Why do some men, even at this level, have such a hard time with women knowing about the game?

Anyway...sorry this was so long, and there is a lot more I could go into, but 12 practices in...these boys are no where NEAR where they should be. Do I suggest some different types of practice drills? Do I go out on the field when practice starts and wait for the coach to say something (or just tell me to get the heck off the field)? Do I yank my son? He's sick of getting yelled at...and he's one of the ones who actually gets yelled at the least - yet he's still talked about quitting a couple times before practice.

I love the game, and I hope my kids develop a love for it too. This is my son's first chance since to play since he was in 2nd grade and it's too late to find another team. I just don't want him (or any of my kids) turned off because of a coach like this.

What do I do??

TG Coach

05-16-2008, 01:47 PM

Now that we've seen your obvious bias we need his version of the truth. How does a team of twelve year olds only have tee ball or no experience? How do all of them end up on one team?

dmullen

05-16-2008, 02:24 PM

How does a team of twelve year olds only have tee ball or no experience? How do all of them end up on one team?

hmmmmm...good point. I do know some rec leagues put all the all-stars on one team - but I've never heard of them putting all the kids with no experience on one team? 12 years olds ( or are some of the kids playing up) yikes - I thought by then you either were playing baseball in some organized fashion or you had other pursuits or hobbies that you concentrated on.

Anyways, if I were the coach I would be, needless to say, frustrated. I could imagine some guys not handling this situation too well. This sort of reminds me of the Will Ferrell Movie "Kicking & Screaming"

Anyways - do what we all did when we were on Rec League with a coach we didn't like.

1. Work with your kid at home - play catch, pitch bp, shag fly balls, - be careful with the bp at 12 years old - hit balls can come back at you pretty quick (my wife uses wiffle balls when she threw bp to my son & he used a wooden bat (he is 14 now and she still throws him bp - it is good mother son time), etc....
2. Don't suggest drills - just keep your mouth shut.
3. don't bad mouth the coach in front of the kid - this will give the kid a reason to quit. The kid isn't stupid he knows a good coach from a bad coach.
4. Next year signup to coach a team.
5. An indicator of your success on keeping baseball fun will be how hard it will be to get your child to participate next year.
6. Also keep in mind that this is 12U baseball & judging by your post most of the kids won't go much further in ball - so the key is to make it as fun as you can given the situation that you've been placed into.

Jake Patterson

05-16-2008, 03:00 PM

What do I do??
Get your son to practice on time, make certain you're there to pick him up on time, root him on all the time, sit in the stands and keep your opinions to yourself, especially with your son...

This is a classic issue, one that can only be exacerbated by pulling your son or continuing to voice your disappointment. If you made it obvious that you are willing to help and he doesn't bite - let it go.

PS: I also coach girls basketball and have had females assistants for 10 years. Most were better qualified than I (former college and pro players).

5LilPlayers

05-16-2008, 06:25 PM

1. Work with your kid at home - play catch, pitch bp, shag fly balls, - be careful with the bp at 12 years old - hit balls can come back at you pretty quick (my wife uses wiffle balls when she threw bp to my son & he used a wooden bat (he is 14 now and she still throws him bp - it is good mother son time), etc....

Do that, almost every day. If he wants to, I'm out there with him. I was a pitcher for 18 years, we use real balls, I'm used to it.

3. don't bad mouth the coach in front of the kid - this will give the kid a reason to quit. The kid isn't stupid he knows a good coach from a bad coach.

I don't. There's no way I would say anything in front of him. I'm not stupid and he's too smart for his own good.

4. Next year signup to coach a team.

I did sign on to coach my two youngest, didn't with any of the others because of being afraid of games on the same day...4 kids playing, only 2 of them are together (4 - 6 yr. olds, t-ball).

As for how they're assigned...while it's a rec league, it's for the local grade schools (city wide)...random draw...my son's home school roster was full so he got placed on another school's team.

And yep, we lost. 20 - 0. They did make some good plays, got a few hits, and it looks like we've got a natural pitcher. Coach put him in near the end of the game, he'd never pitched in practice before, 3 up, 3 down in both of the last 2 innings. :applaud: The other team was just much better than us. Oh well...we still have tomorrow.

hawkiirock

05-16-2008, 09:43 PM

i agree. I didnt read the whole post but a lot of you parents are to blame here. That is pathetic they are 12 and have no experience or just Tball. some of you parents need to step it up a bit. Sorry but that is my opinionNow that we've seen your obvious bias we need his version of the truth. How does a team of twelve year olds only have tee ball or no experience? How do all of them end up on one team?

5LilPlayers

05-16-2008, 10:59 PM

Now that we've seen your obvious bias we need his version of the truth. How does a team of twelve year olds only have tee ball or no experience? How do all of them end up on one team?

i agree. I didnt read the whole post but a lot of you parents are to blame here. That is pathetic they are 12 and have no experience or just Tball. some of you parents need to step it up a bit. Sorry but that is my opinion

So because a child develops a love of the game later in life and a coach doesn't show the kids what to do, it's perfectly fine for the kids, as well as the parents, to be yelled at by the coach????

Glad neither of you coached any of my teams. I would have quit before I even started...and I don't want that to happen to my son.

mudvnine

05-17-2008, 12:17 AM

Somewhat of a confusing post 5LilPlayes, you seem to want to put everything on the coach, yet there are a few nagging questions to parts of your post. Such as . . . .

12U team, rec. league. . . . 90% of the team is comprised of 1st time players or those who've only played t-ball before.

What have these players been doing for the past 6 years between “t-ball” and a 12U team? Do THEY really enjoy the game and want to be there or is it the parents who think they should “develop a love” for the game as you posted later.

“I love the game, and I hope my kids develop a love for it too.”

Maybe baseball's not his sport, that's OK, there's soccer, basketball, swimming, tennis, golf . . . .

While the coach has stressed that winning isn't the main goal for my son's team, he yells at the kids almost constantly. . . . .

Seems like you are agreeing with the coach that “winning isn't the main goal”, but later show great concerns that winning is very important to you, hope you're not sending mixed messages to your son or coach.

They have their first game tonight...tournament before official play starts Tuesday...and I'm really scared we're going to lose.

You seem very worried about the coach’s demeanor or coaching style of yelling at the boys all the time but then you equate their motivation and attention span of these 12 year-olds to that of 5 & 6 year-olds by writing this. . .

. . . the boys still had no idea where to throw to, half of them weren't even paying attention. I've seen 5-6 yr. old little girls in the outfield at softball practices with longer attention spans.

Do these boys even watch the game on television, or do their interests lie elsewhere (computers, Nintendo, Playstation…)? At 12 years of age, if they truly had an interest in the game as you claim, they would have at least picked up the basics by watching it and have some idea as to where to throw the ball. I feel as though there is really something else that you’re not telling us.

I think you expect the coach to have the patience of a saint when dealing with boys who by your own description don’t really want to be there in the first place or at least don’t act age appropriate while at practice. That would be a tall order for anyone, especially a volunteer coach.

I go every time. Last night, I was tossing balls to the kids before practice just to get 'em loose (many were in t-shirts, a couple in shorts, and it was windy and rainy). . . there is a lot more I could go into, but 12 practices in...

I would say this coach has his hands full with not only the kids but the parents; what types of parents still send their kids to baseball practice in shorts 12 practices into the season, let alone out in “t-shirts, and shorts” on a “windy and rainy” night? I’m going to go out on a limb here, but it’s my bet the coach has told the kids AND PARENTS the appropriate attire for baseball practice and games . . . doesn't seem that ANYONE listens to the coach, no wonder he's frustrated and raises his voice.

If a were a psychiatrist, I would say that “it sounds to me that you are really more upset with the coach’s chauvinistic relations towards you and your dislike of his coaching style has manifested from that”, but then again I’m not a psychiatrist.

Sorry it’s not working out for your son if he really does enjoy the game and really wants to be there, but before you make your decision on “yanking him” or not, I would sit down with the coach and work out your personal issues with him rather then simply write off the whole disappointing season to a coaching style, rather then to what sounds more like a personality conflict.

Good luck to you and your son on whatever you decide,

MV9

Ursa Major

05-17-2008, 01:02 AM

I wouldn't be a little surprised if 5LilPlayers is a little frustrated right now. She signed on to get some advise, and people are predominantly picking at various issues while largely missing the bigger picture. Yes, the manager probably was dealt a bad hand, but it looks like he's misplaying it. While I agree that there are a lot of 'red flags' in her post the suggest to me that her knowledge of the game and coaching kids may be more deficient than she realizes, it doesn't hurt for us to accept her version of events and offer advice based on it, while offering some warnings that carrying out that advice might not be well received.

Without taking sides, I think that it's fair to try to get higher-ups in the league involved a little bit, in part because their "random draw" business seems to have promoted some of the disparity. If there's a league president or division president (who presumably rose through the ranks as a manager), maybe he or she can stop by and observe a practice and perhaps offer an experienced old timer to come in and give suggestions for practice styles and organization. And, the league MUST take responsibility for managers who are constantly yelling at and belittling players.

I'm a little curious at those who somehow want to try to cast blame elsewhere for kids who are 11 and 12 years old and ... gasp ... haven't played baseball before or for a few years. Guess what, folks, in a lot of areas, particularly inner city areas, there isn't the infrastructure (which, sadly, means there often aren't enough Dads around) for an ongoing baseball program. I've gotten some of these kids when I've coached a summer recreational league and, while it's challenging, teaching them and getting them to work together as a team CAN be done. You have to back up and, as 5LP notes, can't assume that kids will automatically know what to do with a ball. But the first time they get a hit or catch a fly ball makes it all worth it. What good does it do to blame parents for the kids' lack of experience? Should the kids be punished, or instead given the best possible crash course in baseball to see how well they can catch up?

dolphindan1

05-17-2008, 05:20 AM

hawkiirock

05-17-2008, 06:54 AM

i stand by my opinion that a lot of blame is on the parents. If their kids show this interest late, then they should be putting in extra time teaching them the basics. I would say this coach feels like a babysitter rather than a coach. I feel for him. Good luck to OP and hope the season improves

I do agree that perhaps the coach expected more from that age group and might've passed on the basics figuring they knew that. Hard to say with the bias in the OP
I'm a little curious at those who somehow want to try to cast blame elsewhere for kids who are 11 and 12 years old and ... gasp ... haven't played baseball before or for a few years. Guess what, folks, in a lot of areas, particularly inner city areas, there isn't the infrastructure (which, sadly, means there often aren't enough Dads around) for an ongoing baseball program. I've gotten some of these kids when I've coached a summer recreational league and, while it's challenging, teaching them and getting them to work together as a team CAN be done. You have to back up and, as 5LP notes, can't assume that kids will automatically know what to do with a ball. But the first time they get a hit or catch a fly ball makes it all worth it. What good does it do to blame parents for the kids' lack of experience? Should the kids be punished, or instead given the best possible crash course in baseball to see how well they can catch up?

Jake Patterson

05-17-2008, 07:47 AM

Several thoughts:

The lack of team experience should have little to do with this discussion. It is great news that this league somehow enticed these kids to come back to the game and play. Most leagues would discourage them from playing.

Yelling at a player is much different than yelling to a player. Parents, especially moms sometimes confuse the two. I've overheard this several times in my years of coaching.
"Bobby, why is coach always yelling at you?"
"What are you talking about mom, coach nevers yells at me."

Lastly, we have all seen the coach who gets into the season finding what he bit off may be a little more than he/she expected. This sounds like this may be the case here.

hiddengem

05-17-2008, 10:43 AM

I have no problem with a coach yelling at kids, my kid or whoever as long as its constructive. I was a bigtime athelete in HS: Football QB, Captain of the basketball team, ran track and pitched and played SS in baseball. I learned very quick that coaches yell in competitive sports.
Not true..some sports more than others. Baseball is a completely different animal than Basketball or Football. In baseball you can do everything right, and still fail 7 out of 10 times and be an All-Star. Certainly not the case in Football. If you screw up in Football, normally you were either overmatched or had a mental block. No wonder there is so much yelling. In college you only play a handful of times, one mental screw up could cost you your season.

Baseball just isn't that way, there is alot of luck involved and a coach that is constantly yelling IMO has a team full of mental midgets, or is a terrible coach. Period.

My HS football coach yelled at me in my face everyday, I mean everyday constantly...WHY? he wanted me to meet my full potential and he cared about me.....
Maybe its because you weren't as good as you thought, or were not very good mentally. The highschool QB, Track star, Basketball captain and Volleyball captain at my highschool was voted by his peers most likely to be the "Bigtime" athelte in the future. After highschool, he couldn't find a job in any sport at our local Juco.

I played basketball a few years in HS..In basketball the coach definetly tends to be more vocal and loud, just the nature of the game. The reason they yell in basketball is because mental breakdowns are what causes problems. I was an ok player, nothing great, but I knew what I was suppose to do, I knew the plays and played the game right. I could count on one hand the amount of times he raised his voice to me throughout that season.

"BigTime",I along with thousands of athletes in the country don't respond well to yelling, it doesn't motivate me and it doesn't make me better. There are some kids that do, everybody is different. I have 5 championship rings and 2 United States Gold medals hanging in my game room, and not 1 of the managers on any of those teams were yellers. Not One, but they were dam good at getting the most out of each personality on the team.

CoachHenry

05-17-2008, 01:42 PM

CoachHenry

05-17-2008, 01:44 PM

I've had two yellers as coaches. After a bit they got tuned out. You have to save raising your voice for special occasions. As HG says, some games have being louder, etc. as part of the nature of the game, but the in your face constantly stuff is for small minded people who don't know how else to coach.

Chris O'Leary

05-17-2008, 02:04 PM

So because a child develops a love of the game later in life and a coach doesn't show the kids what to do, it's perfectly fine for the kids, as well as the parents, to be yelled at by the coach????

Glad neither of you coached any of my teams. I would have quit before I even started...and I don't want that to happen to my son.

Great point.

As a coach, you take what you get and you do the best you can with it.

Yelling at kids really isn't appropriate unless they are doing something dangerous.

Who cares why they haven't played much to date. The people who are criticizing the kids are being elitist.

Finally, I had a fun time a couple of years back teaching a good athlete how to play the game late in life. It wasn't his fault that he hadn't had the opportunity to learn yet.

Chris O'Leary

05-17-2008, 02:06 PM

What do I do??

Assuming the coach is screaming at the kids for no reason, and isn't just yelling to be heard, you should let the head of the association/committee know about the coach's behavior.

Chris O'Leary

05-17-2008, 02:09 PM

Yelling at a player is much different than yelling to a player. Parents, especially moms sometimes confuse the two. I've overheard this several times in my years of coaching.
"Bobby, why is coach always yelling at you?" "What are you talking about mom, coach nevers yells at me."

Good point.

When I'm trying to position an outfielder, or calling what base to throw to, sometimes I have to yell/shout. I also yell/shout a lot in soccer to give positioning instructions to my kids.

However, this is different than screaming at kids.

Chris O'Leary

05-17-2008, 02:12 PM

TG Coach

05-17-2008, 03:51 PM

So because a child develops a love of the game later in life and a coach doesn't show the kids what to do, it's perfectly fine for the kids, as well as the parents, to be yelled at by the coach????

Glad neither of you coached any of my teams. I would have quit before I even started...and I don't want that to happen to my son.

I don't have any issue with kids starting late. It's odd they would all be placed on one team rather than be dispersed throughout the league. Since you want to get snippy you would probably never have to worry about your son playing for me. I coach a top ranked select travel team.

Coach Tex

05-17-2008, 03:58 PM

Never, ever, even in a million years do I yell. But I do coach very loudly :D

Sounds like the parents, the coach, and a league representitive need to have a meeting and let both sides be heard. As a coach, I would rather the parents come to me with their concerns than sit in the stands and gripe every game/practice. Usually in these situations, it's only the kids that have the maturity to handle it.

TG Coach

05-17-2008, 04:07 PM

You have to take whiny mothers with a grain of salt. You don't see nearly as many fathers whining.

5LilPlayers

05-17-2008, 06:05 PM

What have these players been doing for the past 6 years between “t-ball” and a 12U team? Do THEY really enjoy the game and want to be there or is it the parents who think they should “develop a love” for the game as you posted later.

Around here, it's hard to get on a school team unless you played the year before, had a sibling who played before, etc. No notes have EVER come home about baseball...though I could probably wallpaper a decent sized room with all the stuff about soccer we got (3 kids currently in the school, so we get everything 3 times). I don't know why they do it like that. But for kids who've moved into the area, it's impossible to get them on their own school's team. My son started going in 3rd grade (to the school he's in now) and this year is the FIRST time we've ever seen anything about baseball (or softball, for that matter) from the school. The school doesn't "recruit".

As for if the boys really enjoy the game, I can only answer for my son...YES!

Maybe baseball's not his sport, that's OK, there's soccer, basketball, swimming, tennis, golf . . . .

Again, for my son only: His sport, yes. Needs to work on some things (like any one else), especially since he's a bit rusty, but he loves it almost as much as I do.

Seems like you are agreeing with the coach that “winning isn't the main goal”, but later show great concerns that winning is very important to you, hope you're not sending mixed messages to your son or coach.

No, I agree with the coach on that. No, winning isn't everything...but why lie? Winning IS better than losing. It's baseball, not track/swimming...2 teams, someone has to win, someone has to lose. *shrug* I should have been more clear about how I phrased that. I was more worried about the MARGIN of the loss. Lose enough and/or lose by a big enough margin, and it can be very disappointing to the kids themselves.

We had one boy in today's afternoon game make an AWESOME play at the plate but it was ruled against us, giving the other team a run (even the coach of the other team said his boy was out, the ump wouldn't overturn the ruling)...and that boy was almost in tears because he was so upset with himself.

You seem very worried about the coach’s demeanor or coaching style of yelling at the boys all the time but then you equate their motivation and attention span of these 12 year-olds to that of 5 & 6 year-olds by writing this. . .

You can teach without yelling. Even with a child who has the attention span of a gnat. 2 yr. olds somehow manage to pick up on nursery rhymes, even if they never hold still.

Do these boys even watch the game on television, or do their interests lie elsewhere (computers, Nintendo, Playstation…)? At 12 years of age, if they truly had an interest in the game as you claim, they would have at least picked up the basics by watching it and have some idea as to where to throw the ball. I feel as though there is really something else that you’re not telling us.

Again, speaking only for my son, yes. Even when we first started watching together when he was old enough to realize there were rules, he's been asking me about plays, why they do certain things, etc.

I think you expect the coach to have the patience of a saint when dealing with boys who by your own description don’t really want to be there in the first place or at least don’t act age appropriate while at practice. That would be a tall order for anyone, especially a volunteer coach.

Yes, but again, you can do it without yelling at them.

I would say this coach has his hands full with not only the kids but the parents; what types of parents still send their kids to baseball practice in shorts 12 practices into the season, let alone out in “t-shirts, and shorts” on a “windy and rainy” night? I’m going to go out on a limb here, but it’s my bet the coach has told the kids AND PARENTS the appropriate attire for baseball practice and games . . . doesn't seem that ANYONE listens to the coach, no wonder he's frustrated and raises his voice.

Raising your voice and yelling are two different things. If he was JUST "raising his voice", I wouldn't care. As for the coach telling the kids and the parents the appropriate attire, all he ever said was "Some of you aren't dressed for baseball...look at what I'm wearing...THIS is how you dress for practice"....while HE was wearing a t-shirt, thin jacket...and shorts.

Sorry it’s not working out for your son if he really does enjoy the game and really wants to be there, but before you make your decision on “yanking him” or not, I would sit down with the coach and work out your personal issues with him rather then simply write off the whole disappointing season to a coaching style, rather then to what sounds more like a personality conflict.

Thank you...that's the best advice yet.

As for the tourney, we're out.

Friday: Lost 20 - 0.
This AM: Won 15 - 12.
This PM: Lost 15 - 13...to the same team we played Friday!! Only lost by 2 after they clobbered us by so much. I think the early win did the boys a LOT of good. By the second game they even managed to pull off a triple play...though it was more of an accident...I think they finally found their groove. After their first two runs in the morning game, I think it helped boost their confidence a bit, too. Maybe it was that, "Hey, we really can do this" feeling...maybe it was just that they hadn't been in an actual game yet...but they were paying attention more and making decent plays...the other team - second game - was just paying a bit more attention and making slightly better plays.

5LilPlayers

05-17-2008, 06:19 PM

Oh and why no sidearm if thats the natural movement for a kid why force him to something different....I know its a hot topic debate but sidearm is more natural than throwing over top...try for yourself and see...My son in his lessons has been taught a more 3/4 arm to help his control and it works...is there a rule against sidearm if so I would get it remeoved somehow

NO idea why no side arm. I know it is allowed as other kids on other teams pitched side-arm throughout the day today and no one said anything. I don't know if it's "more natural", but I do know it IS "more natural for some". If they can throw it like that (the one on our team could), and get it over the plate (again, he could), what difference would it make? I could understand if it was a league rule, of course...but it's obviously not after witnessing it today.

As for the yelling...yes, I agree, constructive is one thing. Yelling at the kids "PLAYS AT...." (fill in the base)...no problem. "<Fill in a name> Wake up out theres!"...sure! But this was in the sense of "You're throwing like a girl"..."Why did you do that? That was stupid!" etc. NOTE: Not "That was a stupid play" (we've all made 'em! LOL), just "that was stupid", implying to the child "he" was stupid. Adults would make the connection (I would hope), but kids see/hear/understand things differently sometimes.

azmatsfan

05-17-2008, 06:21 PM

This is a tough situation. Are most of the parents fed up with the coach too? If so you may need to talk to the president of the league. Perhaps they can talk to the coach about the yelling. As far as him being an ineffective coach, I'm afraid there's not too much you can do. In a rec league where the coaches are volunteers not all the coaches have the experience or knowledge to be good coaches. Between his team practices you'll probably need to work with your son on his baseball skills. Even though your son's team may not win many games, hopefully your son can still improve as a player and take away a greater appreciation of the game.

Good luck this season and keep us posted.

5LilPlayers

05-17-2008, 07:10 PM

This is a tough situation. Are most of the parents fed up with the coach too?

Yes. All of us "regulars" (those of us who've been there every practice) have become rather close. We've even discussed having our "own" practices without the coach around...unfortunately, that would eliminate the coach's son...the only one willingly playing catcher (and also needs some help).

Thanks...to ALL who've taken me seriously. I'm going to start by talking to the coach. If that doesn't help, I'll make my way up the ranks. Hopefully just the discussion with the coach will do.

I was upset with him today again, but I've let it go. After the second game today, he told the kids there will be "no practice tomorrow or Monday, just be ready for the game Tuesday". I feel they should practice. Nothing "major"...just some minor fine-tuning. Maybe not even really "practice", but a get together to discuss the GOOD that they did (leaving the "bad" and "ugly" alone), with a bit of BP. What kid doesn't like to hit? That was always my favorite thing in practices...hmm...and games, too. LOL I'd love to scrimmage with the boys, too. 12 on the team, we could easily do 6 on 6 with willing parents filling out the other 3 positions. But I'm also one who could be out on a field myself from sun up to sun down so I think THAT was more of a personal...uhh...feeling?...opinion?...than anything. The boys did do great today and they do deserve a little rest.

Ahh...to be 12 again...or 5...or even 22....LOL The only reason I stopped playing was because I was 5 months pregnant and doc said "You're high risk, you shouldn't be sliding NOW!!" Plus the baby belly was just starting to get in the way of pitching a bit. I did keep on at 1st base until that season was over...but I can't wait to sign up to play next year. This league has an adult division, too. Of course...that would mean 6 of us playing (provided the youngest still wants to, only 3 now, too young for even t-ball at this stage)....ohhh the possibilities of games/practices on the same day....LOL

dolphindan1

05-17-2008, 07:40 PM

This is crap. If a coach has to resort to yelling at you everyday and constantly they are failures as coaches. If that is what you have to do in order to motivate then they should give it up. And if that is what YOU needed to motivate you then maybe you should have taken a look at your personal desires.

And where I am from, baseball and track are the same season. I'm sure it's done but doing both would let one of them down.

I didnt specify I ran track when I lived in Illinois and played baseball after we moved to SC....

Coaches yell, Do you watch sports I have not seen many coaches that dont yell, I dont see how you can say they are failures...would you call Bobby Knight a failure, how about Dean Smith, What about Coach K, Don Shula, Mike Ditka....all these winning coaches yelled...its the nature of the game in the pros, College and in HS and in some extent in older age rec sports...I personally dont yell at the team I coach but I do shout orders, Down and ready, plays at first, pay attention....would I verbally berate a rec team heck no....but coaches do yoell like it or not

mgervace

05-17-2008, 07:47 PM

if a coach takes the time to be the head coach...give him or her credit...

I head coach... I pitch to my kids, it's pee wee 7-8 yr olds... I need or could use help yet, I have parents who just come to watch.... I have to ask if other dads, even moms to be base coaches....

Some think I may yell, but I yell or am stearn in a positive way..

If I'm going to GIVE my time to teach kids, they need to GIVE me their attention.
They signed up to learn, and that's what I will do is teach.

If you have issues, make SUGGESTIONS!!!!!
Or Offer your 2 cents!!!!

What are you teaching kids by trying to practice without the coach?

Baseball is secondary to Life Lessons!!!!
I'm not sure what or how this topic started, yet if you enjoy baseball as much as u say you do, and can play from sun up to sun down...then you love and LOVED the game, regardless of your age.
If this is the case, you know alot of what YOU do in everyday life, is baseball affiliated....
If you are in sales....or in business.... you COMPETE against others right?
Just like in any TEAM SPORT!

Were you ever a pitcher? Don't tip your pitches right?
If you're a salesman, you need to SELL your pitches right
If you tip your pitches NO SALE possibly......

If you try and get your kids to go behind the coaches back, you are teaching them to DECEIVE!!!! Whether you realize it or not...that is what is being taught!!!!

That's wrong!

Like I said, I teach 7-8yr olds... at years end, every team gets an award for participation... I think that is a JOKE!!!!
Here's why... we are teaching kids that if you just participate you will be rewarded...they are being babied..... that's why America is falling on it's face!

The American past time is named that for a reason. It teaches more than the game of baseball.....if you understand the game you now EXACTLY what I am saying.....

So think about being deceptive against someone who is offering their time...be that team player you were when YOU PLAYED the game.... Everyone doesn't have to be friends nor like eachother, but being a team player is what makes winners and seperates losers!

good luck.

dolphindan1

05-17-2008, 07:53 PM

Not true..some sports more than others. Baseball is a completely different animal than Basketball or Football. In baseball you can do everything right, and still fail 7 out of 10 times and be an All-Star. Certainly not the case in Football. If you screw up in Football, normally you were either overmatched or had a mental block. No wonder there is so much yelling. In college you only play a handful of times, one mental screw up could cost you your season.

Baseball just isn't that way, there is alot of luck involved and a coach that is constantly yelling IMO has a team full of mental midgets, or is a terrible coach. Period.

Maybe its because you weren't as good as you thought, or were not very good mentally. The highschool QB, Track star, Basketball captain and Volleyball captain at my highschool was voted by his peers most likely to be the "Bigtime" athelte in the future. After highschool, he couldn't find a job in any sport at our local Juco.

I played basketball a few years in HS..In basketball the coach definetly tends to be more vocal and loud, just the nature of the game. The reason they yell in basketball is because mental breakdowns are what causes problems. I was an ok player, nothing great, but I knew what I was suppose to do, I knew the plays and played the game right. I could count on one hand the amount of times he raised his voice to me throughout that season.

"BigTime",I along with thousands of athletes in the country don't respond well to yelling, it doesn't motivate me and it doesn't make me better. There are some kids that do, everybody is different. I have 5 championship rings and 2 United States Gold medals hanging in my game room, and not 1 of the managers on any of those teams were yellers. Not One, but they were dam good at getting the most out of each personality on the team.

where in my post did I say i was that good??? I dont believe I did but I was good enough to be the starting QB for a coach that won 3 state titles in 7 years, I was on one of them, until he moved to a bigger school to be offensive coordinator on his on accord, I was good enough to win 2 state titles in basketball on a all black team I was the only white kid, I played SG and was all conference 2 years and even had a few college offers and our basketball coach yelled maybe more than our football coachIf i didnt take a shot I should have I got blasted, If I overthrew the TE I got blasted....it motivated me to do my best every time out there....In baseball i was good enought to be captain and play SS and Pitch...I wasnt very good though at baseball to be honest....and thinking back the baseball coach yelled but it wasnt near as much...I ran track one year and I never saw that coach but I ran 220 and 440 relay...I was also good enough to play on a National Champion Little Dribblers team from Illinois and we went to Texas and won the championship...was I Lebron James no, but I was a good player....

Oh and I am fairly successful in my career and in my life great family and friends and job....

mgervace

05-17-2008, 08:01 PM

Several thoughts:

Yelling at a player is much different than yelling to a player. Parents, especially moms sometimes confuse the two. I've overheard this several times in my years of coaching.
"Bobby, why is coach always yelling at you?"
"What are you talking about mom, coach nevers yells at me."

.

GREAT CALL!!!! The littlest of words means a world of difference!!!:applaud:

dolphindan1

05-17-2008, 08:05 PM

Yes. All of us "regulars" (those of us who've been there every practice) have become rather close. We've even discussed having our "own" practices without the coach around...unfortunately, that would eliminate the coach's son...the only one willingly playing catcher (and also needs some help).

Thanks...to ALL who've taken me seriously. I'm going to start by talking to the coach. If that doesn't help, I'll make my way up the ranks. Hopefully just the discussion with the coach will do.

I was upset with him today again, but I've let it go. After the second game today, he told the kids there will be "no practice tomorrow or Monday, just be ready for the game Tuesday". I feel they should practice. Nothing "major"...just some minor fine-tuning. Maybe not even really "practice", but a get together to discuss the GOOD that they did (leaving the "bad" and "ugly" alone), with a bit of BP. What kid doesn't like to hit? That was always my favorite thing in practices...hmm...and games, too. LOL I'd love to scrimmage with the boys, too. 12 on the team, we could easily do 6 on 6 with willing parents filling out the other 3 positions. But I'm also one who could be out on a field myself from sun up to sun down so I think THAT was more of a personal...uhh...feeling?...opinion?...than anything. The boys did do great today and they do deserve a little rest.

Ahh...to be 12 again...or 5...or even 22....LOL The only reason I stopped playing was because I was 5 months pregnant and doc said "You're high risk, you shouldn't be sliding NOW!!" Plus the baby belly was just starting to get in the way of pitching a bit. I did keep on at 1st base until that season was over...but I can't wait to sign up to play next year. This league has an adult division, too. Of course...that would mean 6 of us playing (provided the youngest still wants to, only 3 now, too young for even t-ball at this stage)....ohhh the possibilities of games/practices on the same day....LOL

Yes. All of us "regulars" (those of us who've been there every practice) have become rather close. We've even discussed having our "own" practices without the coach around

This is what I see and hear....the worst thing for any coach that has a struggling team is to have a bunch of regulars that get along and get each other worked up about this or that. he is doing this wrong, He is playing favorites...blah blah...I am not saying you dont have a legitimate grip but have you put yourself in the coaches shoes and see where he is coming from....I agree saying you throw like a girl is not good bu was he serious?...I have said it playing around to a couple of the kids on my team and guess what they throw harder, same thing hitting...but i say it jokingly....He even Mr. Miaggi did it in Karate Kid....LOL

that being said...I have coached LL for several years and coached ALL-Stars the last 2 years, along with a few fall teams...I am even on the baseball committee for our local rec league....I agree with others that say talk to the coach...He may not even realize what he is doing wrong...I tell my parents please come to me 1st if you have a problem and we will do our best to work it out and if we cant I will give you the directors number...So talk to him, offer to help him, he is a volunteer you can be too, He may suprise you....Also if my team plays good in rec ball I always reward them with a day off...Kids love practice but parents usually like a day off....

JMHO

I guess I will get flamed again for my thoughts again

mgervace

05-17-2008, 08:06 PM

Never, ever, even in a million years do I yell. But I do coach very loudly :D

.

Another Bravo!!!:applaud:

You HAVE to be LOUD...Which again is a difference from yelling.... I'm always loud to get the kids attention....I give my time!

mgervace

05-17-2008, 08:16 PM

[QUOTE=skipper5;1192315]Yelling AT players is counterproductive in baseball. They'll play worse.

FALSE!!! You get their attention to FOCUS!

Yelling AT 12 yr old players is, in addition, simply wrong.

You, the parent sign the child up...WHY to learn? They can have fun doing other things...!

Yelling TO your players is OK in hockey, because they have trouble hearing you because of the helmets, skate noise, etc.

Yelling TO players in any sport is OK because they need to FOCUS and be alert... If I don't YELL and a kid is playing in the dirt and a line drive hits him in his SKULL, I would blame myself because he wasn't down and ready!!

Yelling AT teen-aged football players is part of the culture of the game. It's a cave man sport, but I'm glad it we have it.
Yelling Is a part of SPORTS and making winners out of children. Why is this lost? You think Lebron James or Tiger Woods weren't driven at a VERY young age to be the BEST!!!! If you don't want little Johnny to be the best, then I understand why parents are against yelling!

This coach is a lousy coach in an unusually challenging situation. That's a bad fit.
WRONG WRONG WRONG...You sign the child up for the wrong sport or sports period!

I just don't get where people sign up their child and don't expect the child to be yelled at or to!
I BET 100%, you yell at your OWN child when he or she does something wrong in everyday activities..... BUT, BUT that's in the PRIVACY of your own home.... and because in sports it's done to your child, in front of everyone in an isolated place...it's wrong? Hmm

hawkiirock

05-17-2008, 08:42 PM

that is perfect. All of you frustrated parents should start your own travel team and run it how you see fitYes. All of us "regulars" (those of us who've been there every practice) have become rather close. We've even discussed having our "own" practices without the coach around...unfortunately, that would eliminate the coach's son...the only one willingly playing catcher (and also needs some help).

Thanks...to ALL who've taken me seriously. I'm going to start by talking to the coach. If that doesn't help, I'll make my way up the ranks. Hopefully just the discussion with the coach will do.

I was upset with him today again, but I've let it go. After the second game today, he told the kids there will be "no practice tomorrow or Monday, just be ready for the game Tuesday". I feel they should practice. Nothing "major"...just some minor fine-tuning. Maybe not even really "practice", but a get together to discuss the GOOD that they did (leaving the "bad" and "ugly" alone), with a bit of BP. What kid doesn't like to hit? That was always my favorite thing in practices...hmm...and games, too. LOL I'd love to scrimmage with the boys, too. 12 on the team, we could easily do 6 on 6 with willing parents filling out the other 3 positions. But I'm also one who could be out on a field myself from sun up to sun down so I think THAT was more of a personal...uhh...feeling?...opinion?...than anything. The boys did do great today and they do deserve a little rest.

Ahh...to be 12 again...or 5...or even 22....LOL The only reason I stopped playing was because I was 5 months pregnant and doc said "You're high risk, you shouldn't be sliding NOW!!" Plus the baby belly was just starting to get in the way of pitching a bit. I did keep on at 1st base until that season was over...but I can't wait to sign up to play next year. This league has an adult division, too. Of course...that would mean 6 of us playing (provided the youngest still wants to, only 3 now, too young for even t-ball at this stage)....ohhh the possibilities of games/practices on the same day....LOL

hiddengem

05-17-2008, 11:02 PM

hiddengem

05-17-2008, 11:16 PM

where in my post did I say i was that good???
Well, seeing as how you referred to yourself as "BIGTIME".

I dont believe I did but I was good enough to be the starting QB for a coach that won 3 state titles in 7 years, I was on one of them, until he moved to a bigger school to be offensive coordinator on his on accord, I was good enough to win 2 state titles in basketball on a all black team I was the only white kid, I played SG and was all conference 2 years and even had a few college offers and our basketball coach yelled maybe more than our football coachIf i didnt take a shot I should have I got blasted, If I overthrew the TE I got blasted....it motivated me to do my best every time out there....
None of this matters..this is a baseball forum.

In baseball i was good enought to be captain and play SS and Pitch...I wasnt very good though at baseball to be honest....and thinking back the baseball coach yelled but it wasnt near as much
Hmm..thats weird. Baseball is by far the most difficult sport to be successful at. Coaches that are constantly yelling and putting pressure on the kids have no business being in that position. I've played at every level on the ladder, trust me I know what a good coach is and a bad coach is.

Oh and I am fairly successful in my career and in my life great family and friends and job....

Fantastic, I wouldn't want anything different for you or anybody else.

CoachHenry

05-17-2008, 11:20 PM

I didnt specify I ran track when I lived in Illinois and played baseball after we moved to SC....

Coaches yell, Do you watch sports I have not seen many coaches that dont yell, I dont see how you can say they are failures...would you call Bobby Knight a failure, how about Dean Smith, What about Coach K, Don Shula, Mike Ditka....all these winning coaches yelled...its the nature of the game in the pros, College and in HS and in some extent in older age rec sports...I personally dont yell at the team I coach but I do shout orders, Down and ready, plays at first, pay attention....would I verbally berate a rec team heck no....but coaches do yoell like it or not

As someone else mentioned, yelling AT and yelling TO are different. And sure the exceptions exist but they are just that, exceptions. And I'll call any coach who has to resort to REGULARLY screaming AT his players a failure no matter how many games he has won. I've lost it on occasion and raised my voice AT players so I'm not some meek coach who is all about sugar and smiles. Hardly. I'm fairly demanding in that I work to get my players to care about what they are doing and give them the instruction (try to anyways) they need. It's up to them from there. If I find myself yelling AT them as part of my coaching plan I'll quit.

hiddengem

05-17-2008, 11:40 PM

Yelling AT 12 yr old players is, in addition, simply wrong.

You, the parent sign the child up...WHY to learn? They can have fun doing other things...!

I'll sign my kid up for WHATEVER reason I want to. YOU certainly won't make that decision. Who the heck do you think you are?

Yelling AT teen-aged football players is part of the culture of the game. It's a cave man sport, but I'm glad it we have it.
Yelling Is a part of SPORTS and making winners out of children. Why is this lost? You think Lebron James or Tiger Woods weren't driven at a VERY young age to be the BEST!!!! If you don't want little Johnny to be the best, then I understand why parents are against yelling!
My father coached me from the time I started swinging a bat until I entered highschool. NEVER ONCE did he yell at me or any of my teamates. Our teams were consistently #1 or #2, and I didn't turn out too bad.

This coach is a lousy coach in an unusually challenging situation. That's a bad fit.
WRONG WRONG WRONG...You sign the child up for the wrong sport or sports period!
You're a joke. YOU are whats wrong with our youth sports.

I just don't get where people sign up their child and don't expect the child to be yelled at or to!
Thats because you just about the least rational person I've seen post on this forum in quite some time.

I BET 100%, you yell at your OWN child when he or she does something wrong in everyday activities.....
You don't have the slightest clue as to how ANY of us run our households on a dailybasis...the more I read from you the more I think you may have just entered the most rediculous post of the year.:applaud:

BUT, BUT that's in the PRIVACY of your own home.... and because in sports it's done to your child, in front of everyone in an isolated place...it's wrong? Hmm[/U][/B]
You just better watch yourself. One day you are going to come accross the wrong father that truely understands how sports are played and you are going to show up the wrong kid and embarrass him and have a serious problem on your hands.

hiddengem

05-18-2008, 09:42 AM

Hiddengem,

I do not believe that MGERVACE's post is on the up-and-up, now that I've re-read it.

Nobody could be that screwed up. I think he's pulling our leg.

Thats an awful lot of waisted time if he is, and an awfully imature 39yr old.

5LilPlayers

05-18-2008, 10:47 AM

Yes. All of us "regulars" (those of us who've been there every practice) have become rather close. We've even discussed having our "own" practices without the coach around

This is what I see and hear....the worst thing for any coach that has a struggling team is to have a bunch of regulars that get along and get each other worked up about this or that. he is doing this wrong, He is playing favorites...blah blah...I am not saying you dont have a legitimate grip but have you put yourself in the coaches shoes and see where he is coming from....I agree saying you throw like a girl is not good bu was he serious?...I have said it playing around to a couple of the kids on my team and guess what they throw harder, same thing hitting...but i say it jokingly....He even Mr. Miaggi did it in Karate Kid....LOL

We're not really going to practice without him...we did (*just*) discuss it...I don't think any of us really would have...

And yes, he was serious about the throwing like a girl thing (and other stuff he's yelled TO the players about)...again, tone of voice is hard to get across in a typed line, of course. If he was joking, I wouldn't have minded. *I* tell my son (and daughters) that sometimes, but they know I am joking around.

Jake said it best...there IS a difference between yelling *at* and player and yelling *to* a player, though it's not that sexist. Just because I'm a mom doesn't mean I can't tell the difference.

Practices and the games this weekend, moms and dads in the stands were all yelling "Play's at..." (whever the play was)...we (the one dad and several moms) all yell TO our kids during practices ("Wake up out there!", "Pay attention!"). But again, what the coach is doing is not yelling to the kids, he's yelling AT them.

Bright side...by the second game yesterday, he had calmed down. Maybe winning was more important to him than he let on? Maybe seeing the boys, in an actual game situation, is what did it...they were much more focused then. I don't know.

hawkiirock

05-18-2008, 07:36 PM

sounds like the coach must've taught them something if they won a game with 90% first time players. Glad things got better

5LilPlayers

05-19-2008, 11:30 AM

sounds like the coach must've taught them something if they won a game with 90% first time players. Glad things got better

Thanks...same here. After the games, my son even commented about "This IS kinda fun..." I asked him what he meant, "Well, the coach wasn't yelling at us and we actually played pretty good."

Granted, the team that creamed them the night before and went on to win the second game...they had JUST moved from diamond 4 to diamond 3 in the sports complex. Our boys played early, got an hour and a half lunch to "refresh', then played them. So I think the other team was just tired...but I wasn't going to mention that fact in front of my son! LOL

Can't wait to see what Tuesday's...er...tomorrow's game...is going to be like. *fingers crossed* Win or lose, again, I don't care, I'm just praying that if they have to be the team that loses, it won't be by "too much." 15 - 13, even with them having the 13, they were still excited Saturday afternoon...they know they played well.

hawkiirock

05-19-2008, 12:33 PM

sounds like the coach mightve been hit with more of a challenge then he was expecting and didn't handle it well but got refreshed or regrouped and it taking a more positive outlook

Hope the season goes well and it is nice that the 12 year olds decided to play regardless of if it were the first time. I shouldnt have criticised the parents that harshly b/c i don't know any of their situationsThanks...same here. After the games, my son even commented about "This IS kinda fun..." I asked him what he meant, "Well, the coach wasn't yelling at us and we actually played pretty good."

Granted, the team that creamed them the night before and went on to win the second game...they had JUST moved from diamond 4 to diamond 3 in the sports complex. Our boys played early, got an hour and a half lunch to "refresh', then played them. So I think the other team was just tired...but I wasn't going to mention that fact in front of my son! LOL

Can't wait to see what Tuesday's...er...tomorrow's game...is going to be like. *fingers crossed* Win or lose, again, I don't care, I'm just praying that if they have to be the team that loses, it won't be by "too much." 15 - 13, even with them having the 13, they were still excited Saturday afternoon...they know they played well.