Bunting to avoid a strike out.

[baseballdad]

I am looking for a way to get the ball in play by players at the bottom of my line up who are having trouble making contact and I am reading a book that advocates bunting on the 3rd strike as a way for young ballplayers to avoid striking out. Bunting on the 3rd strike is kind of taboo. What do you think of the strategy of having batters swing away on the first two strikes and bunting on the 3rd-especially for weak hitters that are struggling with making contact?

Any other strategies?

[TG Coach]

Who's the idiot who wrote the book? This is the way out for coaches who can't teach the game. Learn how to teach hitting and teach the kids. They're never going to learn to hit if you don't let them swing the bat. You will drive them away from the game. Do you have the weak arms roll the ball across the infield. I'm sorry. But these kind of cop out questions tick me off. These kind of coaches should either learn how to teach the game or get out.

[yabby]

Not good advice.
So you have a few poor batters? Can I ask what are the symptoms?
There are a few ways to handle kids that aren't good at batting. This forum can get too technical for the age of the kids you coach, but we can give it a crack.

[baseballdad]

Well it isn't like I don't teach hitting and they arn't being allowed to swing. And by the way, I'm not a pro coach, maybe I should not be on this forum, just a Dad trying to coach a rec league team.

These are 10 year olds mostly. I would say that the most common problem is that they are not loading up properly before the pitch is thrown so many are not really prepared to swing. So some are swinging late and few just arn't swinging at all in game situations and going for the walk. Some have expressed an interest in bunting but to date I've been telling them I'd like to see them swing away and hit before they try to bunt. After reading this book (I don't have the author on the tip of my tongue) I thought maybe I would try letting them bunt.

[Memphis]

I am looking for a way to get the ball in play by players at the bottom of my line up who are having trouble making contact and I am reading a book that advocates bunting on the 3rd strike as a way for young ballplayers to avoid striking out. Bunting on the 3rd strike is kind of taboo. What do you think of the strategy of having batters swing away on the first two strikes and bunting on the 3rd-especially for weak hitters that are struggling with making contact?

Any other strategies?

In bunt situations, I'm not against bunting with 2 strikes. I always figure, what's the difference, striking out by swinging and missing, or bunting a foul ball? If you really need a bunt - then bunt!

But, bunting just to put the ball in play because you are not convinced the kid has the skills to swing and make contact is just a cop out. If you're the coach, you have an obligation to make the kids better ball players. Besides, what kind of message are you sending that kid?

Teach 'em to hit the ball! Teach 'em to bunt! Teach 'em to run the bases properly. Teach 'em to throw and catch properly. Teach 'em the game!

David Emerling
Memphis, TN

[Jesse]

I would say that the most common problem is that they are not loading up properly before the pitch is thrown so many are not really prepared to swing. So some are swinging late and few just arn't swinging at all in game situations and going for the walk.

Just posted this in another thread. I've had success with 7-8 yo's using this analogy, don't see why it wouldn't work with 10 yo's.

I like to use a slingshot analogy. I ask a kid, if you had a slingshot in your hand and I told you to shoot it, how long would it take you? I step them through the process of loading the slingshot, pulling it back and firing it - probably a few seconds worth of activity before they can get the shot off. Then I ask them, what if you already had the slingshot loaded, pulled back, and aimed? How long then? Of course it would be instantaneous. Then I relate their hands to a slingshot - if you pull them back, they're ready to go. The slingshot idea also helps them to avoid excess bat wrapping, because you pull a slingshot straight back, you don't wind it up. This seems to really turn the light bulb on for most kids. Just telling them "Hands back!" doesn't do much if they don't understand why.

[Jake Patterson]

Well it isn't like I don't teach hitting and they arn't being allowed to swing. And by the way, I'm not a pro coach, maybe I should not be on this forum, just a Dad trying to coach a rec league team.

dad,
Keep learning how to teach hitting and keep the players swinging. Not much good can come from bunting your way through a season. I would rather see youngdters take their hacks than try to avoid swinging.
Jake

[Rufus67]

Well it isn't like I don't teach hitting and they arn't being allowed to swing. And by the way, I'm not a pro coach, maybe I should not be on this forum, just a Dad trying to coach a rec league team.

Baseballdad
I share your pain. I coach 11U rec baseball. We emphasize hitting in each practice and I've held more batting practices than most teams in our league combined. I still have a couple of kids that will not pull the trigger. Yes, it's frustrating but the biggest thing to realize is that you can only do so much in the (limited) time you have with the kids. As has been suggested, concentrate on getting them to just swing and encourage every time they do. Celebrate every success like they just hit a walk-off homer, even if it's just a foul tip. This has worked for a couple of the kids who are now swinging agressively and getting some hits. The quickest way to shut a kid down is to get on him for swinging at a pitch that may be out of the strike zone. Every swing is a good swing when they are struggling.

I'm also very careful to congratulate them on swinging strike outs. Kids this age take striking out personally instead of a necessary aspect of the game. I make sure to let them know they are doing a great job, especially if they're swinging, and to concentrate on the next time they'll be at the plate.

The above is obviously not intended for more advanced/HS/etc. ball players but was instead geared toward the specific situation of baseballdad. YMMV.

[baseballdad]

Who's the idiot who wrote the book? This is the way out for coaches who can't teach the game. Learn how to teach hitting and teach the kids. They're never going to learn to hit if you don't let them swing the bat. You will drive them away from the game. Do you have the weak arms roll the ball across the infield. I'm sorry. But these kind of cop out questions tick me off. These kind of coaches should either learn how to teach the game or get out.

The book is John T. Reed's "Youth Baseball Coaching".

[TG Coach]

The book is John T. Reed's "Youth Baseball Coaching".

I remember this name from a previous year. He writes "How To's" without ever having been there and done it. Telling kids to bunt with two strikes rather than teaching them to hit is horrible advice. Why not just have them take every pitch and hope they walk (yes it was sarcasm)?

[Jake Patterson]

I remember this name from a previous year. He writes "How To's" without ever having been there and done it. Telling kids to bunt with two strikes rather than teaching them to hit is horrible advice. Why not just have them take every pitch and hope they walk (yes it was sarcasm)?
... or turn into every pitch hoping to get hit by a pitch...
The object of hitting is HITTTING!!!

I agree with TG - Terrible advice.

[korp]

Bunting is not a for sure thing anyways. If you do it on the third strike and bunt it foul or tip it your still out.....

Might as well go down swinging. I mean hitting is the best part of the game if you ask me.

[yabby]

baseballdad,

What do you think of Reed's other batting points? Swinging with a lighter bat, bat discipline, his stuff on pages 119 & 120 really helped our team out, and I use that approach with all of my teams.
3rd strike bunting has it's place, just don't become predictable with it.

[Ursa Major]

Yeah, I'm familiar with Reed. He's a semi-nut job out here in Northern California. He preaches avoiding batting practice and teaching kids not to swing at pitches that aren't right down the middle. It's more about the winning than the learning for him. That bunting idea is one for the books, though.

BBDad, don't apologize for participating here because you're not a "pro coach" but just a dad helping out. That's all that almost all of us are here. Go ahead and throw ideas and and, if people take shots at them, you've learned something. It's not like anyone is questioning your sincerity. As for me, I'd rather talk about working with kids who are really at square one than I would about big studs who are going to be successful regardless of any tips that I could give them.

Yes, kids have trouble swinging on time or swing at all, for that matter. For most, it's a matter of getting them to swing a lot and in a lot of different settings -- off a tee, with wiffle balls, against machines, against coaches, against teammates and, finally, in games. And there will be that moment where the sequence clicks and the kid hits it, and his improvement will be start to build with the confidence that brings. Reward the small stuff -- if they set up right and pull the trigger at the right time, whatever happens thereafter is all in God's hands, so they should be praised for a good approach regardless of the outcome.

[LAball]

We have 4 players on our team that are poor hitters. The coach has tried. 2 of then hit on base 2 times so far. 1 has gotten a foul tip a few times. But they mostly just strike out. I think it would be fun for the boys just to be able to put the ball in play a few times. This could also improve their confidence and timing. Id say let them bunt a few at bats. At least they can go home after a game and say I put it in play instead of striking out.

[beemax]

I think it is fine to work on bunting with the kids, but IMO bunting with two strikes as a way of avoiding a strikeout is a no-no at any level.

With 10 year old kids, sure, you will have some that really struggle. I think it is more about encouragement and a very positive attitude that is more important at that level. Doing whatever you can to keep them interested in the game for as long as possible is the most important thing.

At no time should you be looking to sacrifice bunt with the kids either. If they bunt, encourage them to get a hit with it. If you are trying to manufacture runs in a little league game you need to rethink your priorities, IMO. I'm not saying that you are suggesting that, but keep a sense of perspective.

Find a way for the kids who struggle to have fun! If you can do that, you are a really good little league coach.

[callyjr]

Who's the idiot who wrote the book? This is the way out for coaches who can't teach the game. Learn how to teach hitting and teach the kids. They're never going to learn to hit if you don't let them swing the bat. You will drive them away from the game. Do you have the weak arms roll the ball across the infield. I'm sorry. But these kind of cop out questions tick me off. These kind of coaches should either learn how to teach the game or get out.

Kinda harsh on a guy asking for help don't you think, and you wonder why you get the trolls following you. You could have worded this so that is was useful instead of attacking the guy skills. Always learning aren't we.

I do agree that we don't want to force a a kid to bunt to try and get him on base, I tried this with my own son not to get him on base, but to try and help him learn how to bunt in a game, I saw his confidence drop very quickly at this age because I was forcing it on him..

Cally

[TG Coach]

If trolls mock the truth I can take it for what it's worth.

[devilsadvocate]

Kids are not stupid. Having them bunt because they don't hit well just confirms to them that they don't hit well. It also stifles their improvement.

[LAball]

sometimes you have to take 2 steps back before you can take a step forward. It maybe back to bunting.

[Benny Blades]

If trolls mock the truth I can take it for what it's worth.

TG...you come across as some "expert". What are your credentials?? Every thread I read you are in everyones a** with this condescending attitude like everyone is a schmuck here.

[TG Coach]

Read Ursa's post. My opinion of Reed does not stand alone. I'd post my credentials again. But the last time I did they were attacked and mocked even though they are very solid. On another board I once provided enough information on my background a troll connected the dots, figured out who I was, where I lived, got my phone number, called my house and threatened my daughter. There are some real whackos on chat boards whose sole purpose is not to participate in the conversation, but attempt to harass people. I won't make the mistake of disclosing precise information ever again. There are people who know who I am. I've disclosed the information when I felt I could trust them or met them personally.

So I'll repeat, if trolls want to mock the truth, so be it. Trolls don't affect me. They affect the quality of the board.

[CoachHenry]

sometimes you have to take 2 steps back before you can take a step forward. It maybe back to bunting.

I think taking what LAball says and expanding on it... I may bunt a kid on occasion so he can get the ball in play and get a boost of confidence. I say OCCASIONALLY.

[baseballdad]

In my interest to be a more informed coach I have read a number of books recently. It was pretty obvious that Reed's suggestions in many cases are unorthodox. Also many of his approaches are more focused on producing a "winning team" than improving the players.

But as with most books there are things to get out of it. He talks about concentrating on teaching the strike zone and hitters zone rather than hitting mechanics because it is more "coachable" in the limited time available.

It also made me realize that I haven't spent enough time on bunting because I don't have confidence in having the kids bunt even though they have asked to do it. So I am spending some more time on that skill and I hope to be able to add that to our offense - when appropriate with the kids that pick it up. I appreciate the comments on this forum, I hadn't considered the impact of having a poor batter use bunting as a crutch enough.

[Jake Patterson]

In my interest to be a more informed coach I have read a number of books recently. It was pretty obvious that Reed's suggestions in many cases are unorthodox. Also many of his approaches are more focused on producing a "winning team" than improving the players.

But as with most books there are things to get out of it. He talks about concentrating on teaching the strike zone and hitters zone rather than hitting mechanics because it is more "coachable" in the limited time available.

It also made me realize that I haven't spent enough time on bunting because I don't have confidence in having the kids bunt even though they have asked to do it. So I am spending some more time on that skill and I hope to be able to add that to our offense - when appropriate with the kids that pick it up. I appreciate the comments on this forum, I hadn't considered the impact of having a poor batter use bunting as a crutch enough.
And the learning continues.... Good post.

[Freestate]

There are some real whackos on chat boards whose sole purpose is not to participate in the conversation, but attempt to harass people. So I'll repeat, if trolls want to mock the truth, so be it.

Sadly, there are also some people on chat boards whose primary approach, if not purpose, is to belittle those with less knowledge. Abrasiveness under the guise of "truth" is no less abrasive. TG, your advice is usually right on the money. But it's often lost in your condescending delivery. If your intent is to really share your knowledge with others, then you'd do well to be more friendly. If your goals are otherwise, then carry on.

[baseballdad]

Yabby, I just checked the book and the section you to refer to on hitter's pitch vs. pitchers pitch is the part about strike zone being more coachable. Teaching them to be more selective on the first two strikes is definitely a good point.

All in all I found his book to be very interesting, definitely some unique perspectives and good ideas. I may have just picked to emphasize the wrong point he made.

[hellborn]

Sadly, there are also some people on chat boards whose primary approach, if not purpose, is to belittle those with less knowledge. Abrasiveness under the guise of "truth" is no less abrasive. TG, your advice is usually right on the money. But it's often lost in your condescending delivery. If your intent is to really share your knowledge with others, then you'd do well to be more friendly. If your goals are otherwise, then carry on.

I have to second Freestate here. I believe 100% that TGC has walked the walk and doesn't just talk the talk, and most of the advice from him that I have read sounds spot on (particularly about chances people have to play at certain levels). But, I often find myself getting angry at the way he addresses and belittles people, even though I'm rarely really involved in the discussion. I am reminded of this quote from an emperor of long ago...
"Do you not know that when physicians give bitter medicines they mix them with honey? But you were always too austere and harsh and never displayed toleration."
I hope that this can be taken constructively. I, too, think that good messages may be lost here because they are delivered with a dose of vitriol.

[TG Coach]

Try the advice I've given my kids when they don't care for a coach's approach ....

Hear the message. Ignore the delivery.

[digglahhh]

So I'll repeat, if trolls want to mock the truth, so be it.

Close call there yesterday, Lebron almost got ya, PP. :p

[Freestate]

Try the advice I've given my kids when they don't care for a coach's approach ....

Hear the message. Ignore the delivery.

That's very good advice, and is truly useful throughout one's life. But it's hardly a defense for being a curmudgeon.

If one wants their message to be absorbed by as many as possible, it pays to work on the delivery. If one just likes to hear the sound of their own voice, then don't worry about the delivery.

Do you seek to be understood, or just heard? :think:

[Drill]

Since everyone piled on you about bunting on the third strike why not teach you kids how to get out of the way of the ball and have them stand as close to home plate as possible.

I see players do that all the time.


drill

you may want to invest in some body armour for some of your more frail players.

[TG Coach]

If one wants their message to be absorbed by as many as possible, it pays to work on the delivery. If one just likes to hear the sound of their own voice, then don't worry about the delivery. Do you seek to be understood, or just heard?

It's up to the person on the receiving end to decide whether or not to pay attention. I'm not coaching anyone here. I don't need to motivate anyone here. I don't need to be understood as a person here. Only the message needs to be understood if the person deems it sound advice. You won't get warm and fuzzy PC from me.

[chd66]

What about using the bunt as a way to improve a child's hitting? If taught properly, bunting helps the batter see the ball which through practice leads to confidence and more hits. Most kids need that confidence boost while in the box. Bunting is a great weapon at any level, but I've used it for years to improve kids' performance at the plate. Our best bunters are our most dependable hitters. And as the seasons move forward, the bottom half hitters show more confidence and results. The more options the better.

[Stat One Author]

What about drag-bunting? That totally seems like a lost art for younger kids, many of whom don't have a clue what a drag-bunt is.

[Jake Patterson]

What about drag-bunting? That totally seems like a lost art for younger kids, many of whom don't have a clue what a drag-bunt is.I feel it's a skill that should be taught to older children - MS and older.