CUBS sign Edmonds why?

[lovethegame]

168 hitter with diminishing range
Pods who couldn't score in a brothel with a fistful of fifties cut him
Cubs are doing just fine and are good enough to let Pie develop
Dumb move

[OleMissCub]

I agree. The Cubs system seems to have an aversion with letting young talent START a season in a position and letting them stay there. Geovany Soto is the exception and now look at what he is doing.

I still think Pie could be an all-star someday. He just needs to get some confidence.

[NickU]

I agree. The Cubs system seems to have an aversion with letting young talent START a season in a position and letting them stay there. Geovany Soto is the exception and now look at what he is doing.

I still think Pie could be an all-star someday. He just needs to get some confidence.

Very true, and bringing in Edmonds is going to screw that up. He doesn't need to be looking over his shoulder every time he makes a mistake.

[efin98]

Brick walls with someone who is known for going the extra mile to make a catch(well, he used to anyway)...I can hear the broken bones already!

[Love The Game]

I hate Jim Edmonds. 9 out of 10 of his "diving" catches were because he timed them that way. He could have sprinted to those balls and caught them standing up. It seemed obvious to me. I don't like players who have the tools to play the game but choose to try and make themselves look better by doing crap like that. Another guy is Garrett Anderson---he never hustles. Drives me nuts.

[rockin500]

eh, while i dont like edmonds, as long as he helps the cubs win, thats all that matters. right now, Pie needs to learn how to actually swing outside of swinging from his heels. if Pie was able to do that, they wouldnt have to sign edmonds.

Pie has no one to blame but himself. i like his defense, but his offense just isnt up to the task right now.

[Fuzzy Bear]

I've never been thrilled with Pie; he's the kind of guy who has "tools" but never seems to turn out to be a decent ballplayer because he can never get his act together at the plate enough.

Pie's minor league stats indicate a guy who's as good as he's going to get in AAA, but who lacks tools to really succeed in the majors. He does not make contact at the MLB level enough to inspire confidence, and he doesn't walk enough to take full advantage of his other athletic skills.

Pie is a Dominican, listed as 23 years old. There have been so many players from the Dominican Republic that have turned out to be 2-3 years older than initially advertised, so Pie's stalled development at the MLB level is something that makes me wonder if this is another case of a player advertised as a 23 year old who is actually 25-26.

Pie's season at AAA last year was way, way out of context with the rest of his minor league career. It was typical of a 25 year old breakout season, and not of a 22 year old superstar. If his season was a breakout at age 22, or even age 23, it would indicate that Pie was someone special, but I can't think of too many players that had big minor league seasons in AAA at age 22 that struggled to hit .220 in the majors on an ongoing basis. Pie's MLB performance to date is more typical of a guy who is a Grade C prospect who gets to the bigs on the springboard of a minor league season that is way beyond what he's done to date.

Edmonds is not likely to have a star season, but he still is a productive hitter vs. righties, somewhat. Edmonds' platoon differential has gotten worse over time, but he still has enough skills vs. righties to be a 4th outfielder. I doubt he can play every day, or even be a platoon regular, but he has been a hustling player, and he is well suited for Wrigley Field. He's decent insurance at low prices these days, and I suspect he's motivated to hang in to reach 400 career home runs.

Most guys in Edmonds' position don't work out for the teams that sign them because they are still living in the dream world that they are still playing at star level, and refuse to accept a reduced role on their team. Edmonds may have been there, but I'm willing to believe that those delusions are behind him, and he is realistic about where he is in his career. If that is the case, Edmonds' may be a valued contributor to the Cubs.

[Zito75]

I hate Jim Edmonds. 9 out of 10 of his "diving" catches were because he timed them that way. He could have sprinted to those balls and caught them standing up. It seemed obvious to me. I don't like players who have the tools to play the game but choose to try and make themselves look better by doing crap like that. Another guy is Garrett Anderson---he never hustles. Drives me nuts.

Then he goes on the DL after his arms and legs fall off from the dives.

[Old Sweater]

I hate Jim Edmonds. 9 out of 10 of his "diving" catches were because he timed them that way. He could have sprinted to those balls and caught them standing up. It seemed obvious to me. I don't like players who have the tools to play the game but choose to try and make themselves look better by doing crap like that. Another guy is Garrett Anderson---he never hustles. Drives me nuts.


What next?

Pretending to be hurt after running into the outfield walls?

I really doubt that you seen all of Edmonds games to be making that 90% statement.

[bluezebra]

I hate Jim Edmonds. 9 out of 10 of his "diving" catches were because he timed them that way. He could have sprinted to those balls and caught them standing up. It seemed obvious to me. I don't like players who have the tools to play the game but choose to try and make themselves look better by doing crap like that. Another guy is Garrett Anderson---he never hustles. Drives me nuts.

You must hate Willie Mays, too.

Bob

[west coast orange and black]

^^
when asked about edmonds mays kinda shrugged that edmonds would be good if only he stayed on his feet.

[SamtheBravesFan]

I thought that Edmonds was a step or two slow and HAD to dive to get to some balls because he otherwise wouldn't have gotten to them normally if he hadn't dove.

[Love The Game]

What next?

Pretending to be hurt after running into the outfield walls?

I really doubt that you seen all of Edmonds games to be making that 90% statement.

Well, whatever the percentage is, it's still bad. They would show just about all the plays on highlight reels, and I'm sorry to tell you he timed most of those dives. It is completely obvious when you watch them. I never said he wasn't a good outfielder, just had really good "timing". Watch Coco Crisp, Aaron Rowand or Ryan Freel, these are guys who legitimately dive to catch the ball. Edmonds is or was a show off.

[Love The Game]

You must hate Willie Mays, too.

Bob

Why on Earth would you compare Jim Edmonds to Willie Mays? Wow!

[SamtheBravesFan]

Why on Earth would you compare Jim Edmonds to Willie Mays? Wow!

He probably meant that in terms of circus catches. Mays made quite a few of those too, I'm sure.

[west coast orange and black]

ltg: I'm sorry to tell you he timed most of those dives.

sure looked that way to many. me included.

[OleMissCub]

ltg: I'm sorry to tell you he timed most of those dives.

sure looked that way to many. me included.

me too. He was a tremendous outfielder, but I think he also had a LARGE deal of showman in him.

[STLCards2]

ltg: I'm sorry to tell you he timed most of those dives.

sure looked that way to many. me included.

The truth is somewhere in the middle. Edmonds is certainly overrated as a fielder. His speed was average, but his jump was exceptional. I saw a training video on a local network where without looking, Edmonds would run to the ball after he heard contact made. He was pretty close to the ball each time. Of course I can't speak for the biased editing of the video. If it was legitamate, it was incredible. His arm was well above average, and as a competetor, I don't think he would often (well, usually, at least) risk extra base hits diving for balls he could catch easily. I know he did it some, but "most of the time"? I doubt it. His plethera of over the-wall homerun robbing catches were pretty impressive as well. I can't see how he would stage all of those catches. I would agree that relatively speaking, as a hitter, he was better than his peers than as a fielder. As a fielder, he is certainly below Hunter and Jones by a good margain, but still well-above average.

By the way - the pretending to be hurt everytime he made a diving catch or used to run into the walls used to drive me crazy. The same way he used to dive away from balls down the middle of the plate to get balls called. He was definately a showman.

[Love The Game]

He probably meant that in terms of circus catches. Mays made quite a few of those too, I'm sure.mons

Mays had the type of showmanship that the fans enjoyed watching, he had a certain charming flair. Edmonds, to me, was an annoying player to watch.

[SamtheBravesFan]

mons

Mays had the type of showmanship that the fans enjoyed watching, he had a certain charming flair. Edmonds, to me, was an annoying player to watch.

Seems like it all based on appearance and perception then. I don't really know what else to say to that then.

[lovethegame]

For the record I am and was first Lovethegame
Kinda surprised that spacing allowed another on board but hey ,welcome
I admire Edmonds career but see no point in damaging another psyche like the Cubs are prone to do
Pie can be covered by this lineup until he gets his bearings and Edmonds, while admirable, is through

[StanTheMan]

If you can do THIS

42882



or THIS at full speed in the NLCS, on a ball which was smoked and practially PAST him.....

42883

Then how can ANY of your other diving catches ever be questioned???? How many times have you watched Edmonds dive for a ball and "just" miss it by an inch or two? Extremely rarely..... and if he WAS timing his catches to dive and get a ball in spectacular fashion on what should be a routine play, there should be FAR more instances of him timing it wrong by .0001 second, resulting in a missed ball. I for one can think of only a few times, and those seemed to be at full speed. NO one has timing so good they can time balls to dive after for YEARS, and not miss a ton of them. The wind, one bad step halfway to the ball, weather, bad or wet turf... I just don't but it. Too many variables.... and the great catches were as good as any CF of the 90's or 2000's.

You also don't play as shallow as he did if you want to turn the routine into a "web gem." He played that shallow because his instincts allowed him to do so. Running after well hit balls with his back to them, head down, looking up later to find the ball again and make the play, etc etc etc.

He's the best defensive Center Fielder of his generation... period. Better all around than Hunter, better arm than Griffey.

Sure, his clubhouse attitude was not the best at times, but I don't let that cloud my judgement of his abilities with the leather. He seemed to be rather non-chalant at the plate at times as well, but again... separate issue for me.

[rockin500]

he had a great catch tonight

[John Shoemaker]

Great catch. I think the Cubs are happy they picked him up.

[Love The Game]

If you can do THIS

42882



or THIS at full speed in the NLCS, on a ball which was smoked and practially PAST him.....

42883

Then how can ANY of your other diving catches ever be questioned???? How many times have you watched Edmonds dive for a ball and "just" miss it by an inch or two? Extremely rarely..... and if he WAS timing his catches to dive and get a ball in spectacular fashion on what should be a routine play, there should be FAR more instances of him timing it wrong by .0001 second, resulting in a missed ball. I for one can think of only a few times, and those seemed to be at full speed. NO one has timing so good they can time balls to dive after for YEARS, and not miss a ton of them. The wind, one bad step halfway to the ball, weather, bad or wet turf... I just don't but it. Too many variables.... and the great catches were as good as any CF of the 90's or 2000's.

You also don't play as shallow as he did if you want to turn the routine into a "web gem." He played that shallow because his instincts allowed him to do so. Running after well hit balls with his back to them, head down, looking up later to find the ball again and make the play, etc etc etc.

He's the best defensive Center Fielder of his generation... period. Better all around than Hunter, better arm than Griffey.

Sure, his clubhouse attitude was not the best at times, but I don't let that cloud my judgement of his abilities with the leather. He seemed to be rather non-chalant at the plate at times as well, but again... separate issue for me.
He has made a lot of legitimately good catches. The one tonight was very good. Its not that hard to time a diving catch, especially when you've been playing ball for over 30 years like Edmonds. You are a Cards fan and a homer, you're biased. I wouldn't say it if it wasn't true. You know it as well as I do. Just protecting one of your guys. I would probably do the same.

[Love The Game]

For the record I am and was first Lovethegame
Kinda surprised that spacing allowed another on board but hey ,welcome
I admire Edmonds career but see no point in damaging another psyche like the Cubs are prone to do
Pie can be covered by this lineup until he gets his bearings and Edmonds, while admirable, is through
Sorry about the name thing. It was my first choice and let me have it so here I am. We have something in common, we feel the same about the game.

[SamtheBravesFan]

I have to side with cardsfanatic on this one. If he did that all those times to specifically showboat, not only does he have to time his jump right, but he also to figure out where the ball is going to be in an instant. That's a lot to do in a span of a second. I don't think anyone is capable of doing that without missing a lot of balls.

[Zagi-CRO]

I think they acquired him only for a bench.

[rockin500]

I have to side with cardsfanatic on this one. If he did that all those times to specifically showboat, not only does he have to time his jump right, but he also to figure out where the ball is going to be in an instant. That's a lot to do in a span of a second. I don't think anyone is capable of doing that without missing a lot of balls.
he made catches harder on himself not because of a flair for the dramatic, IMO. He made them because he thought he had the speed to. He doesnt play a very deep centerfield, so he has to run further to catch those deep flies.

[SamtheBravesFan]

he made catches harder on himself not because of a flair for the dramatic, IMO. He made them because he thought he had the speed to. He doesnt play a very deep centerfield, so he has to run further to catch those deep flies.

Right. That's what I said. He had to dive for a lot of balls because he's a step or two slow. I remember seeing a show talking about Edmonds (I forget what it was) where someone brought up Cleon Jones, and said that he didn't have to dive for balls because he was so fast. Naturally, those who dive for balls get more attention, but still. The question is: did Edmonds dive for balls specifically to get more attention, or did he dive for balls because he had to to catch them? I'll side with the latter option.

[rockin500]

Right. That's what I said. He had to dive for a lot of balls because he's a step or two slow. I remember seeing a show talking about Edmonds (I forget what it was) where someone brought up Cleon Jones, and said that he didn't have to dive for balls because he was so fast. Naturally, those who dive for balls get more attention, but still. The question is: did Edmonds dive for balls specifically to get more attention, or did he dive for balls because he had to to catch them? I'll side with the latter option.
yep, i think he had to in most cases. and if you do it in most cases, you start doing it out of habit even if you dont specifically need to.

[lovethegame]

Sorry about the name thing. It was my first choice and let me have it so here I am. We have something in common, we feel the same about the game.
Good deal
Welcome
Now we can confuse those who will bust our horns!!!
Edmonds of course last night made a remarkable catch but a foul ball off his leg didn't look promising

[SamtheBravesFan]

yep, i think he had to in most cases. and if you do it in most cases, you start doing it out of habit even if you dont specifically need to.

So if that's true, then he's doing it out of habit and not specifically to showboat.

[rockin500]

So if that's true, then he's doing it out of habit and not specifically to showboat.
i'm sure hes got a bit of a flair for the dramatic, but thats usually handled with how he handles getting up. and hey if the fans love it, so be it.

is he somewhat overrated? perhaps, but not that much. not at his prime at any rate.

[Seattle1]

I guess Cubs fans never even liked Edmonds anyway.

[StanTheMan]

He has made a lot of legitimately good catches. The one tonight was very good. Its not that hard to time a diving catch, especially when you've been playing ball for over 30 years like Edmonds. You are a Cards fan and a homer, you're biased. I wouldn't say it if it wasn't true. You know it as well as I do. Just protecting one of your guys. I would probably do the same.

It is truly great to have new members here on BBF that know so much about other posters! What a blessing, and another facet of BBF that separates it from other boards.

While you are at it (using words like homer, biased, claiming things like "you know it as well as I do") do you suspect I am doing a good job raising my kids Love The Game? Is the private school we send them to a good choice? How about my tax stimulous check plans.... are they ok? Should I have left work early that day and not told the boss? What do you think? Should I post a few sentences about any or all of these topics to give you the insight required for you to make all emcompassing, definitve judgements? Did I marry the right woman? Let me know, PLEASE. :yawn:

For crying out loud Love The Game (memo to lovethegame... separate yourself from that one asap) you don't know if Edmonds is "one of my guys or not."

In fact, he is not. I was advocating the Cardinals get rid of him in the fall of 2006, when they could have received something in return. I posted in this very thread that I thought he was done, and have often spoke of him taking at bats "off" and not using his full concentration.... a pretty common perception. He is not always good in the clubhouse, either. He was a Cardinal player, but is just as well known (at least defensively) as an ANGEL player.

Ever see his running over the shoulder, back to the plate, and back to the sky diving catch that some have called the best catch in the past 30 years? It said ANGELS on his jersey that night. Was that a "legitamate good catch?" What is the converse of that... an "Illegitamate good catch?" LOL

Are Angels fans homers for being able to accurately compare his defensive abilities to those of his generation? That is all I was doing.

Your quick judgements of others "thoughts" and your ability (feeble attempt, actually) to describe the actions and mindset of other posters here will grow tiresome for us all.

If you have any substantial response to my, or any other post in this thread, I'd be happy to read it, and intellectually talk baseball with you.

If not, well, the ignore list is a feature of this site, and although I have never used it on anyone... but you never know.

Bryan

[Rennie Stennett]

He made a helluva catch Monday night at Houston's Minute Maid Park. Edmonds was running with his back against the infield and looking over his left shoulder and at the last minute he turned his head and caught the ball over his right shoulder as he ran up Tal's Hill. Pretty nice catch. If he contributes, particularly against the Cardinals, the Cubs fans will love him.

-- Nicknamed "El Caballo," meaning, "The horse," Carlos Lee probably finds it only fitting that his 10-man cheering section in the left field seats has named itself "Los Caballitos" -- "Little horses."
It's probably also only apropos that "Los Caballitos" presented "El Caballo" with a toy horse on a stick.

Los Caballitos instructed El Caballo to ride the horse every time he hits a home run. True to his word, Lee giddy-upped in the dugout following his two-run blast in the fourth frame, which buoyed the Astros to a 6-1 win over the Florida Marlins before 38,106 fans at Minute Maid Park April 17th.


Funny Stuff.

[rockin500]

I guess Cubs fans never even liked Edmonds anyway.
definitely not. it wasnt his showmanship attitude that bothered me. it was just his arrogance that drove me nuts. that and him driving daggers into cubs fans hearts too often.

In his prime he was a very good player.

[StanTheMan]

I believe Edmonds hit 16 homers against the Cubs......

[Love The Game]

It is truly great to have new members here on BBF that know so much about other posters! What a blessing, and another facet of BBF that separates it from other boards.

While you are at it (using words like homer, biased, claiming things like "you know it as well as I do") do you suspect I am doing a good job raising my kids Love The Game? Is the private school we send them to a good choice? How about my tax stimulous check plans.... are they ok? Should I have left work early that day and not told the boss? What do you think? Should I post a few sentences about any or all of these topics to give you the insight required for you to make all emcompassing, definitve judgements? Did I marry the right woman? Let me know, PLEASE. :yawn:



Stan, feel free to use the ignore button. You are a little too dramatically sensitive for my taste. I'd rather not have to read your rambling crap like the above post. That's not baseball talk. One more time, Edmonds was a good outfielder who liked to showboat a lot. And I don't repect that in a ball player.

[Love The Game]

Was that a "legitamate good catch?" What is the converse of that... an "Illegitamate good catch?" LOL

Bryan
The converse of that in the correct context would be "not a legitimately good catch". Grow up.

[lovethegame]

The converse of that in the correct context would be "not a legitimately good catch". Grow up.
that would be the spaced Love the game

[DownUnderDodger]

He made a helluva catch Monday night at Houston's Minute Maid Park. .
I immediatley thought of this thread when I saw that catch on ESPN this morning ;) It was a good one......running with the ball coming from over your shoulder is never easy to judge and he did it extremely well. :applaud:

[StanTheMan]

I immediatley thought of this thread when I saw that catch on ESPN this morning ;) It was a good one......running with the ball coming from over your shoulder is never easy to judge and he did it extremely well. :applaud:

Nah.... if Edmonds had even decent speed, he would have been under the ball far sooner, had time to make a sandwich, (ham and chees of course, spicy mustard goes without saying) then sit down in a reclining chair to make the catch, only to get up at the last moment and dive unnecessarily for it.

[DownUnderDodger]

Nah.... if Edmonds had even decent speed, he would have been under the ball far sooner, had time to make a sandwich, (ham and chees of course, spicy mustard goes without saying) then sit down in a reclining chair to make the catch, only to get up at the last moment and dive unnecessarily for it.

Sounds good, as long as the sandwich was toasted!! :D But you are being just a tad harsh!!

[StanTheMan]

A tad harsh? True... perhaps a bit more than a "tad" as well.

[The Splendid Splinter]

Man... a few years down the road people gonna realizes how good Jim Edmonds really was... His 5 year peak was just as good as Ken Griffey Jr. and actually... better defense than Griffey. Griffey should've never won that many GG, same with Edmonds, but Edmonds had more GG caliber seasons (2005 was truly amazing- 26 RAA... to compare Willie Mays highest RAA was 25, but again... that's just one season). Can anyone find a higher RAA of 26 in a season by a CF? EDIT: Mike Cameron in 2003 with RAA of 33!!!

This is coming from a Cubs fan. I thought he would prove people wrong this year when he came to the Cubs after Padres released him. Must've been wishful thinking of me. I hope he does well for the rest of the year. He has lost a step or 2 in the OF but still average CF at worst- certainly better than Reed Johnson IMO, but he does look lost at the plate. Unless he gets it going offensively, he won't have a job next year and might lose it this year. Yes, he showboats a bit in the OF but he also plays shallow for a CF as well. I liked the signing cuz he always hit well at Wrigley and for like 250,000, he's a low risk/medium reward. Although I rather just have Pie playing everyday at CF cuz his defense is amazing.

[bluezebra]

Why on Earth would you compare Jim Edmonds to Willie Mays? Wow!

WOW! Right back at you. You missed my point. Mays admitted, after retiring, that he wore a smaller size cap so it would blow off when he ran after a fly ball. And his basket catches were pure showboat.

Bob

[Seattle1]

Edmonds hit two homeruns in the bottom of the fourth today against the White Sox!

[John Shoemaker]

I think the Cubs picking up Edmonds is looking better all the time. He's far from finished.

[lovethegame]

Edmonds to my enjoyment and surprise has shown me why
Nice job overall Jim