The Hot Pack Mystery

[Swankee21]

Across Ebay, there are dozens of dealers that sell unopened, "guaranteed hot packs". Each pack will have either GU, auto, parallel, or whatever is denoted in the title. Anybody know how they are able to figure this out? I've heard that people have gone to the extremes of calibrating the thickness of the pack in millimeters, the weight in grams, etc etc. But what about auto's and parallel hot packs? It's a mystery I'm stumped on, and I'd like in on it thank you very much:shhh:

Any thoughts, hints, secrets of the trade, or just general chatter on this?:shrug:

[Dalkowski110]

"But what about auto's and parallel hot packs?"

With parallel hotpacks, it depends on the parallel. However, with autographs, it does weigh slightly more or less and/or has a different thickness. You can measure this with extremely sensitive scales or calipers; usually the difference is incrementally tiny, but it does exist.

[AutographCollector]

Across Ebay, there are dozens of dealers that sell unopened, "guaranteed hot packs". Each pack will have either GU, auto, parallel, or whatever is denoted in the title. Anybody know how they are able to figure this out? I've heard that people have gone to the extremes of calibrating the thickness of the pack in millimeters, the weight in grams, etc etc. But what about auto's and parallel hot packs? It's a mystery I'm stumped on, and I'd like in on it thank you very much:shhh:

Any thoughts, hints, secrets of the trade, or just general chatter on this?:shrug:
The packs are simply resealed. A low end game used or autographed card is put into a pack to make a profit.

[Dalkowski110]

"The packs are simply resealed. A low end game used or autographed card is put into a pack to make a profit."

Not always. You should see some of the "toys" my former boss has to measure autograph packs...which he cherrypicks out of the "filler boxes" (read: no autographs, and he's up front about it, taking a little off the price) and then sells the signed cards (not the full packs) on eBay.

[howiek]

They sell pack similar to that at Target. My GF found them and bought me 3 at $10 a piece. The top of the package says "contains a Game Used Card"
Out of the 3 packs the best card was a Kerry Wood Jersey, 1 of the packs didn't even have the GU in it. In addition the pack contained I think 2 random packs of cards in it.

[Swankee21]

The packs are simply resealed. A low end game used or autographed card is put into a pack to make a profit.

As Dalkowski110 said, and I second, not everyone reseals packs. It's just too difficult to perfectly open a pack, look through the cards without smudging them, and then perfectly reseal them so there is no distinguishable signs of tampering.

I've gotten a few of these hot packs on Ebay, and one 2008 Upper Deck pack had a Chipper Jones GU jersey, but also a Starquest Super Rare card. It definitely looked unspoiled, but besides that if it had been tampered with they would have exchanged the Starquest card for a common for sure.


..Which gets to my second point...most auto cards are the same thickness and material as the base cards (look at Heritage). Calipers and weighing would show no outstanding difference in packs. At this point I'm stumped as to how they figure out auto packs if they presumably don't open and reseal the packs. I feel they don't, since it would take dozens of packs and many suspicious re-sealings and returns to stores to find a single auto. My only other guess would be special lighting, but about every insert is in the middle of the pack...

[RuthMayBond]

Across Ebay, there are dozens of dealers that sell unopened, "guaranteed hot packs". Each pack will have either GU, auto, parallel, or whatever is denoted in the title. Anybody know how they are able to figure this out? I've heard that people have gone to the extremes of calibrating the thickness of the pack in millimeters, the weight in grams, etc etc. But what about auto's and parallel hot packs? It's a mystery I'm stumped on, and I'd like in on it thank you very much:shhh:

Any thoughts, hints, secrets of the trade, or just general chatter on this?:shrug:I can only tell it on a very limited number of sets

[Dalkowski110]

"most auto cards are the same thickness and material as the base cards (look at Heritage)."

Nope. The difference is incremental IN THE EXTREME, but it is there. One of the things I advised my former boss about so he could "cheat" was a smokeless powder measure. You use that in handloading rifle, pistol, and shotgun cartridges where measuring the amount of powder is so vital that it could literally mean the difference between life and death in the case of some pistol calibers (pistol powder burns FAR hotter than rifle or shotgun powder). The measure literally needs to be accurate to the nearest grain. And by using a powder measure, believe me, you can tell weight differences.

[Dalkowski110]

This does a really good job of explaining the whole process (please note that I did not write it and do not know the author)...

http://reviews.ebay.ca/Pack-Searching-How-do-they-do-it_W0QQugidZ10000000001398346

[bryanspellman]

Man I hate those guys. I went the other day to Target and there was this guy just standing there feeling up the packs. I picked up a blaster and a kid came over to pick up a pack (kid as in 20's) I told him not to bother if he was hoping to hit a GU or auto. I then motioned with my head and said This jerk is feeling them all up. He gave me a look but nothing kept on doing it. The kid put down the pack and grabbed a blaster as well and said thanks to me and then THANKS to the guy.......

[RuthMayBond]

Man I hate those guys. I went the other day to Target and there was this guy just standing there feeling up the packs. I picked up a blaster and a kid came over to pick up a pack (kid as in 20's) I told him not to bother if he was hoping to hit a GU or auto. I then motioned with my head and said This jerk is feeling them all up. He gave me a look but nothing kept on doing it. The kid put down the pack and grabbed a blaster as well and said thanks to me and then THANKS to the guy.......What do you care if you're getting a blaster anyway? :crazy:shrug::confused::blah:

[Mike D.]

What do you care if you're getting a blaster anyway? :crazy:shrug::confused::blah:

Can you really not understand why other collectors don't like this practice?

[RuthMayBond]

Can you really not understand why other collectors don't like this practice?Can you really not understand why collectors don't like paying four bucks a pack and getting crap in 80% of packs?

[Mike D.]

Can you really not understand why collectors don't like paying four bucks a pack and getting crap in 80% of packs?

I sure can. That's why I don't like some jerk who feels he has MORE right to the randomly inserted cards than I do gaming the system. I pay $4 for the pack just like him, and now I have a 0% chance of pulling an insert, even though I'm paying a premium because the inserts were there?

[RuthMayBond]

I sure can. That's why I don't like some jerk who feels he has MORE right to the randomly inserted cards than I do gaming the system.He doesn't have any "more" rights, you have the right to feel packs too. You also have the right to not buy packs

[Mike D.]

He doesn't have any "more" rights, you have the right to feel packs too. You also have the right to not buy packs

Well, hopefully the card companies will fix this loophole soon, becuase the above argument is ridiculous. Taken to it's extreme, collectors who don't want to game the system themselves or worthless packs should just not collect. Not exactly good for the future of the hobby.

[RuthMayBond]

Well, hopefully the card companies will fix this loophole soon, becuase the above argument is ridiculous. Taken to it's extreme, collectors who don't want to game the system themselves or worthless packs should just not collect. Not exactly good for the future of the hobby.Nor is 80%+ worthless packs (even without "gaming"). It's not like I pull tons of packs from a store. I'm lucky if I even get one pack per visit.

[Mike D.]

Nor is 80%+ worthless packs (even without "gaming"). It's not like I pull tons of packs from a store. I'm lucky if I even get one pack per visit.

But if that one is the one with a relic or autographed card in the whole box, or whole display, you still feel that's fair to the people who buy the other packs?

I'm sorry to get this thread off topic. Maybe I'm the only person who feels this gaming of the system is not cool. Is this really prolific? If I want to pull nice cards, should I buy only sealed boxes, not individual packs from retailers or dealers?

[RuthMayBond]

But if that one is the one with a relic or autographed card in the whole box, or whole display, you still feel that's fair to the people who buy the other packs?

I'm sorry to get this thread off topic. Maybe I'm the only person who feels this gaming of the system is not cool. Is this really prolific? If I want to pull nice cards, should I buy only sealed boxes, not individual packs from retailers or dealers?
1) I can only do this on probably a third or a fourth of all packs
2) I have pulled ONE sig in my life (you all have probably pulled more). MUCH harder to tell

[Mike D.]

1) I can only do this on probably a third or a fourth of all packs

So, the card companies are doing what they can to combat the practice (or are just getting lucky that their packs are hard to work with)?


2) I have pulled ONE sig in my life (you all have probably pulled more). MUCH harder to tell

I think I've pulled one auto from a pack bought at a store, plus a few from sealed boxes. So, this effects mostly cards with GU stuff in them? I can see that being the case, as they're usually thicker.

BTW, I hope you're not taking my questioning personally. I don't mean to call YOU a jerk or anything, I'm just trying to understand the reasoning behind doing this and feeling it's OK.

[RuthMayBond]

If I want to pull nice cards, should I buy only sealed boxes, not individual packs from retailers or dealers?Aren't those the best deals anyway?

[RuthMayBond]

So, the card companies are doing what they can to combat the practice (or are just getting lucky that their packs are hard to work with)?They could do more, sometimes they choose not to

<BTW, I hope you're not taking my questioning personally. I don't mean to call YOU a jerk or anything>

Whatever :rolleyes:

[Mike D.]

Aren't those the best deals anyway?

Good point. The only problem is the cost. Where I often have $2-10 dollars for a pack or three, a box costing $75 pushes them out of the "impulse buy" range, at least for me!

[MadHatter]

What do you care if you're getting a blaster anyway? :crazy:shrug::confused::blah:


Is it a sign of how old I am or how long it's been since i bought packs of cards... but what IS a blaster pack?

[RuthMayBond]

Good point. The only problem is the cost. Where I often have $2-10 dollars for a pack or three, a box costing $75 pushes them out of the "impulse buy" range, at least for me!Understood, I have never used a scale, or a caliper/micrometer gauge and never will. I don't go to hobby stores, right now I only go to one store name, and most of the time I get beat out by other pack feelers. I"m really not pulling out the quantity you think. If it wasn't for 07 Leaf Rookies & Stars football (and baseball is probably the worst sport for this), I'd have very little

[RuthMayBond]

This does a really good job of explaining the whole process (please note that I did not write it and do not know the author)...

http://reviews.ebay.ca/Pack-Searching-How-do-they-do-it_W0QQugidZ10000000001398346Hey, at least I don't post "how-to" manuals ;)

[Dalkowski110]

Yep, like someone is going to bring a 15 pound, $200+ powder measure, hypersensitive scale, or micrometer into a card shop and go unnoticed... :rolleyes:

I posted this because some people doubted it could even be done...I think that should be obvious.

[RuthMayBond]

Here's my "big haul" tonight. Two stores. One pack. One auto, and I *STILL* didn't remove a baseball sig from circulation. It was a friggin' Twister Sister Eddie Ojeda. The pack also did have Robinson Cano, Hunter Pence and Greg Maddux. If my plans go well I might hit four more stores on Sunday. Then I'm done until a certain type of new pack comes out.

[Dalkowski110]

Two things...

1) You bought UD Spectrum, right?
2) Did you post in the right thread?

[Swankee21]

Everyone here debating on the subject of hot packs and the ethics of it has helped me establish a few more motifs in my pack buying:


1: Avoid boxes at retail stores that are not freshly open, and I mean so fresh that not even two packs are missing, because those might just be the hot ones
2: Whenever I feel the urge to buy a pack or two, instead of doing it like usual, I will (try to) put that 3 or 6 dollars away in a safe place (preferably locked and out of the way), and save up for a whole box, where I most definitely will get a couple autos.
3: People who look for hot packs are queers who spend most of their time and money trying to look stupid by holding weighty calipers at the local Wal-Mart measuring pack thickness down to the hundredths of millimeters


Those offended by Motif #3 please comment so we all can bash you for taking away all our hopes of ever fairly getting our money's worth :choke:

[RuthMayBond]

Two things...

1) You bought UD Spectrum, right?Correct

<2) Did you post in the right thread?>

I was just trying to point out that I'm not taking every hot pack off the market

[RuthMayBond]

Everyone here debating on the subject of hot packs and the ethics of it has helped me establish a few more motifs in my pack buying:So we've helped you ;)

<3: People who look for hot packs are queers>

I'm not sure if you're mature enough to understand the replies

<who spend most of their time and money>

I'd love to talk but I gotta go back to my Walmart job

<trying to look stupid by holding weighty calipers>

You oughta see me holding the 15 pound scale

<at the local Wal-Mart>

Not sure if I've ever bought any cards at Walmart

<Those offended by Motif #3 please comment so we all can bash you for taking away all our hopes of ever fairly getting our money's worth :choke: >

The card companies already did that :laugh

[bryanspellman]

What do you care if you're getting a blaster anyway? :crazy:shrug::confused::blah:

I care because:

a) with $20 in my pocket I wanted to give a bunch of different releases a try

b) it's just wrong, it's stealing, it is like sitting at the scratch off machine and being able to tell if it is a winner or not and leaving the duds for others to buy

Watching that jerk do what he was doing I decided to just buy a sealed blaster instead of a bunch of his toss aways...

[RuthMayBond]

it's stealing,That's a creative definition of "stealing" :rolleyes:

<Watching that jerk do what he was doing I decided to just buy a sealed blaster instead of a bunch of his toss aways...>

Depending upon how good he is, his tossaways may still have almost as many good cards as his keepers

[RuthMayBond]

Back to the original thread :eek: I thought hot packs were ones that had MORE THAN ONE insert. Now THOSE are rare. I was able to find some in some recent football packs but those may have been my only ones

[Gary Dunaier]

What about the individual packs that are put in blister cards and hung from pegs? Do you guys think they're any "safer" than the packs that are sold loose?

[RuthMayBond]

What about the individual packs that are put in blister cards and hung from pegs? Do you guys think they're any "safer" than the packs that are sold loose?
They're safe from me, I won't touch 'em

[Mike D.]

What about the individual packs that are put in blister cards and hung from pegs? Do you guys think they're any "safer" than the packs that are sold loose?

Ah, the ones that come in their own cardboard and plastic "case"?

I hate buying those because it just seems so wasteful. That's an awful lot of trash to generate for one pack of cards!

[Swankee21]

Ruthmaybond: All I was venting about(I was a bit annoyed at the time, crappy packs buying does that to me) was that I feel it unfair for some people to have unfair advantage over others who like to once in a while get a big hit completely out of the blue(me), which I haven't from open boxes in well over two years. I buy regularly, one or two packs a week, and those odds on the back of the pack aren't adding up like they should.

I feel I'm mature enough to understand and generally believe in Darwin's principles that the most fit should get better everything than the unfit, but there should at least be a god to control the most fit from reaching total tyranny. What I mean is there should be better ways of fooling packsearchers since there's nothing that I, the unfit can do about it.

Oh God why hath you forsaken me?:disbelief:

[RuthMayBond]

Ruthmaybond: All I was venting about(I was a bit annoyed at the time, crappy packs buying does that to me) was that I feel it unfair for some people to have unfair advantage over others who like to once in a while get a big hit completely out of the blue(me), which I haven't from open boxes in well over two years.I don't know that I've ever gotten a big hit

<I feel I'm mature enough to understand and generally believe in Darwin's principles that the most fit should get better everything than the unfit, but there should at least be a god to control the most fit from reaching total tyranny.>

Obviously it's not total tyranny if the non pack-searches in this forum are still making good pulls (and I'm not getting anything truly rare)

<What I mean is there should be better ways of fooling packsearchers since there's nothing that I, the unfit can do about it.>

There are, the card companies just don't use them all the time

<Oh God why hath you forsaken me?:disbelief:>

Not to worry (Hebrews 13:5)

[RuthMayBond]

Ruthmaybond: All I was venting about(I was a bit annoyed at the time, crappy packs buying does that to me) was that I feel it unfair for some people to have unfair advantage over others who like to once in a while get a big hit completely out of the blue(me), which I haven't from open boxes in well over two years.

I feel I'm mature enough to understand and generally believe in Darwin's principles that the most fit should get better everything than the unfit, but there should at least be a god to control the most fit from reaching total tyranny. Let's try this again-
I buy from ONE, RETAIL name store. Unless you're artificially narrowing down what type of packs, even in that one name store two-thirds to maybe three-fourths of the packs I won't touch. I NEVER buy from hobby shops, and even if they let me search, I would avoid even a higher percent (similar to all other retail stores where I don't buy). (It's fairly common knowledge that unless you see a hobby store bring out an unopened box/case, store owners search packs, why do they get off scot-free?) Baseball tends to be the worst sport for me getting inserts. I have never used a scale or micrometer/calipers and have no plans to. Unless I'm first to a box, I'm frequently beaten out by other buyers. With the price of gas I will be less likely to go to as many stores as I have been. My lucky store just changed to blister packs so I stopped going there. And non pack searchers are reporting more finds than I am (my "big" hit was a Nolan Ryan jersey numbered out of 250, not exactly a microscopic run, and that was about four years ago).

[Swankee21]

Obviously it's not total tyranny if the non pack-searches in this forum are still making good pulls (and I'm not getting anything truly rare)

Ruthmaybond:Maybe I am still a little green in the ways of "big pulls". What I meant was that two years ago was the last time I pulled ANY GU jersey, bat, or sig, since i consider all that to be a big hit in a pack.(Which, by the way I think the one two years ago was a lowly Andrew Jones jersey, unnumbered)

I've NEVER gotten a pull as "big" as that Nolan Ryan #'d to 250 that you got. And, it's not like you have been looking for that big hit longer than me since most of that GU and sig insert stuff didn't start until late 1990's, after I was avidly collecting. So, let's just say that we are both unlucky in the ways of pack pulls and leave it at that.

Note: I still stand by my three motifs, except for the third(a little harsh) which I rephrase to just mean that I loathe pack-searchers like I loathe this stupid war in the Middle-East

[Dalkowski110]

"I loathe pack-searchers like I loathe this stupid war in the Middle-East"

No politics please. How about "Words can't describe how much I dislike pack searchers?"

[RuthMayBond]

Ruthmaybond:Maybe I am still a little green in the ways of "big pulls". What I meant was that two years ago was the last time I pulled ANY GU jerseyThat's gotta hurt

<bat,>

I've never pulled one

<or sig, since i consider all that to be a big hit in a pack.>

Never had one until a few months ago, and it wasn't baseball

<(Which, by the way I think the one two years ago was a lowly Andrew Jones jersey, unnumbered)>

I just told you my only numbered baseball jersey pull

<So, let's just say that we are both unlucky in the ways of pack pulls and leave it at that.?

That's what I'm saying, even with "cheating" I don't pull much

<Note: I still stand by my three motifs, except for the third(a little harsh) which I rephrase to just mean that I loathe pack-searchers like I loathe this stupid war in the Middle-East>

You loathe me, you're in good company here :applaud::party:

[Swankee21]

Dalkowski:Sorry, got side tracked. ...Sure what you said works...they're indescribably loathable

[RuthMayBond]

Dalkowski:Sorry, got side tracked. ...Sure what you said works...they're indescribably loathableWould like to hear the rest of this story, since I'm loathable too

[Swankee21]

<So, let's just say that we are both unlucky in the ways of pack pulls and leave it at that.?

That's what I'm saying, even with "cheating" I don't pull much


Maybe you're just not a good "cheater" yet :p Give it a few years and I'm sure you'll be a master at it.

[RuthMayBond]

Maybe you're just not a good "cheater" yet :p That's what I've been trying to tell you guys (and dalkowski IS a good cheater? :eek::eek::eek::eek::faint::faint::faint::faint:

[Dalkowski110]

How the hell am I a "cheater"!? :disbelief:

[RuthMayBond]

How the hell am I a "cheater"!? :disbelief:Ask swankee :shrug::shrug::shrug::shrug::shrug::shrug:
I was wondering if your telling someone"what works" was construed as "cheating" by some. I'm just teasing, don't get your game-used jersey in a bunch, sorry

[Dalkowski110]

Why? He's never mentioned my name. Listen, I'll tell you right now that I have no bone in this fight. I don't care either way. So why the hell do you keep bringing up my name?

[Swankee21]

whoa, hold on, I believe it was you than mentioned something about "cheating" in the first place. I was just quoting you. I meant nothing at dalkowski

[RuthMayBond]

Why? He's never mentioned my name. Listen, I'll tell you right now that I have no bone in this fight. I don't care either way. So why the hell do you keep bringing up my name?Just joshing, everyone knows I'M the only cheater on this board

[Swankee21]

Erm, "looks at thread topic", whoops we wandered a bit didn't we? Ah well, that topic seemed pretty worn out anyways.

Just one more question (on topic). At my Wal-Mart (only card convenient place in 40 miles), there are 2008 Heritage and Upper Deck packs in cardboard hangars and plastic cases. Are there any better chances of them being unchecked for good stuff, or are the card-searchers with the calipers and everything able to check these also?

If so, then I have nothing worth buying for a long ways around :sorry:

[RuthMayBond]

Just one more question (on topic). At my Wal-Mart (only card convenient place in 40 miles), there are 2008 Heritage and Upper Deck packs in cardboard hangars and plastic cases. Are there any better chances of them being unchecked for good stuff, or are the card-searchers with the calipers and everything able to check these also?I wouldn't touch those packs with a 40-foot foul pole, so you're at least safe from this cheater

[Dalkowski110]

"Just joshing, everyone knows I'M the only cheater on this board"

Didn't catch your edit to your post. Don't get YOUR game-used jersey in a bunch. ;)

But seriously, while I WAS the first one who used the word "cheat," I should note that I put it in quotes to indicate I lacked a better word at hand. Go back and look. I don't believe the post is edited and if I did edit it, it was immediately afterward to correct any spelling errors. Otherwise, I have no bone in this fight. I just want my name to stop coming up. PERIOD.

[Dalkowski110]

"I wouldn't touch those packs with a 40-foot foul pole"

And to get us back on-topic, I've pulled five autographs from five retail boxes without any searching lately. 2006 Bowman Heritage in two cases, 2007 Topps '52 Rookies in one, and 2007 Bowman Draft Picks & Prospects in two more.

[RuthMayBond]

Otherwise, I have no bone in this fight. I just want my name to stop coming up. PERIOD.Well, there's a really nice guy on this board. I can't say his name, but for some reason he has BONES in fights rather than picking them or having DOGS in fights. Can't say his name, but he is a really great guy :applaud::nod::waving:bowdown:

[RuthMayBond]

And to get us back on-topic, have we EVER defined the minimum requirements for one said "hot pack"?

[Dalkowski110]

"Well, there's a really nice guy on this board. I can't say his name, but for some reason he has BONES in fights rather than picking them or having DOGS in fights. Can't say his name, but he is a really great guy"

Good show. You win that round. :applaud: :) As for "bone" vs. "dog"...well, I've heard both (even though I'll admit the latter, which I was using, is incorrect). :applaud:

Just don't bring my name up in the debate, okay? :)

"have we EVER defined the minimum requirements for one said 'hot pack'?"

The definition was stated in the link I posted. But I'll post it here: any pack that contains a game-used card, autographed card, and/or parallel card is a hot pack (although it is arguable on the last point...because parallel cards like refractors are often not detectable, you could argue parallel cards don't count).

[RuthMayBond]

"Well, there's a really nice guy on this board. I can't say his name, but for some reason he has BONES in fights rather than picking them or having DOGS in fights. Can't say his name, but he is a really great guy"

Good show. You win that round. :applaud: :) I'm trying (VERY trying)

<"have we EVER defined the minimum requirements for one said 'hot pack'?"

The definition was stated in the link I posted. But I'll post it here: any pack that contains a game-used card, autographed card, and/or parallel card is a hot pack (although it is arguable on the last point...because parallel cards like refractors are often not detectable, you could argue parallel cards don't count).>

Then parallels numbered 2000 or more would be considered hot? Why only parallel cards, why not non-parallel cards from a numbered series which could be limited even lower than parallels?

[Swankee21]

any pack that contains a game-used card, autographed card, and/or parallel card is a hot pack (although it is arguable on the last point...because parallel cards like refractors are often not detectable, you could argue parallel cards don't count).

But that's what this whole thread is about. How ARE people able to detect parallels? Grain-weight differences? That's the mystery :think:

[Dalkowski110]

"Grain-weight differences?"

When it is detectable, yes. Also minute differences in SIZE. When it's not, then the guy is just opening packs. Unfortunately, I don't know which types are detectable (note that using a heavy duty scale or caliper, ALL autographs and GU cards are). If I did, I'd tell you.

[RuthMayBond]

But that's what this whole thread is about. How ARE people able to detect parallels? Grain-weight differences? That's the mystery :think:If I told you, I would have to . . .
. . . hurt you ;)

[Swankee21]

I can stand a little bit of pain in the name of curiosity :p

Please do tell Ruthmaybond

[Dalkowski110]

"Then parallels numbered 2000 or more would be considered hot? Why only parallel cards, why not non-parallel cards from a numbered series which could be limited even lower than parallels?"

Didn't notice this, but I'll answer. Ever since the MLBPA instituted their rules, in almost all cases, almost any non-parallel inserts that lack GU or autographs are pretty weak. However, for those few inserts that survived, or if you're opening pre-2006 card year packs, then other numbered inserts count as well.

[RuthMayBond]

I can stand a little bit of pain in the name of curiosity :p

Please do tell RuthmaybondOh I don't have to tell him, he already knows





















1) Card companies have one very good way to foil pack-searchers, stay away from it
2) It usually helps to target a card seller that can help you with the above problem
3) Good baserunners know to slide, or else the call might go against you
4) Don't be thick-headed about card companies, try to investigate ways that they try to fool you
5) Just like modern music, being different can be rare :think::think::think:

[RuthMayBond]

Swankee, hopefully you have used my obvious hints ;)
Well, three more stores yesterday, no packs. Boy, I'm just taking ALL the good cards off the market :rolleyes:

[RuthMayBond]

Anybody find out if a certain location in the box of '08 Bowman always has the sig card?

[Dalkowski110]

"Anybody find out if a certain location in the box of '08 Bowman always has the sig card?"

The answer is no. '07 Bowman Chrome had this problem and after opening a few boxes, I took advantage of it. Topps took steps to correct this in 2007 Bowman Draft, but pack placement was still not as random as it should have been. They again took steps to correct it in 2007 Topps '52 Rookies, but it resulted in some coallating errors and boxes containing only two autos instead of the promised three. Fortunately, 2008 Bowman has perfected the process and it is pretty much random. I've also yet to hear of coallation errors.