1969 Expansion Draft

[jkc32]

The Shoeless Joe’s pullback Al Ferrara (OF) and Andy Etchebarren (C).

[mac195]

HC pull back Steve Hamilton and Ted Savage.

[-Kyle-]

Thank you for pulling back Hundley, its a shame Dal Canton was taken, I will also pull back Mike Paul.

[J W]

We pull back Pete Richert and Paul Lindblad.

[leecemark]

Thank you for pulling back Hundley, its a shame Dal Canton was taken, I will also pull back Mike Paul.

That is your first segment pullbacks. You can still pull back 2 more.

[buppers]

Badgers pull back (reluctantly)

Tito Fuentes and Jim Hannan

[-Kyle-]

Waslewski and uh, someone. Let me look it up real quick.

Edit: Pete Ward, basically our back at 1b and 3b.

[leecemark]

--The first 8 hour clock after segement 3 can be to catch up on pullbacks for anyone who doesn't want to hang around. I'll get the eligibility list and draft list updated and send out a new league file by the end of that 8 hours.

[leecemark]

S
KW
BB
WCF
WCF
BB
KW
S
S
KW
BB
WCF

--fire when ready

[BlueBlood]

leecemark, can we have a full rundown of the first two rounds? I think I have two or three top team picks that I might have missed be drafted or pulled back.

[Windy City Fan]

Here's what I've got for the first two rounds:

1 – Luis Tiant (Legends)
2 – George Scott (Skipjacks)
3 – Bill Stoneman (Gamblers)
4 – Ray Culp (Redbirds)

5 – Bob Veale (Gold Sox)
6 – Pat Kelly (Cloverleafs)
7 – Ken Brett (Knights)
8 – Milt Pappas (Angels)

9 – Hoyt Wilhelm (Joes)
10 – Pat Jarvis (Hard Cider)
11 – Jim Spencer (Badgers)
12 – Al Kaline (Diablos)

Pullbacks
Knights - Casey Cox and Jim Roland
Legends - Joe Rudi and Lindy McDaniel
Badgers - Danny Cater and Juan Pizarro
Angels - Willie Crawford and Steve Kealey
Cloverleafs - Johnny Briggs and Ed Herrmann
Skipjacks – Bob Miller and Curt Flood
Redbirds - Maury Wills and Jerry Grote
Gold Sox - Stan Bahnsen and Moe Drawbowsky
Joes - Dick Hall and Cito Gaston
Hard Cider - Bill Sudakis and Steve Hargan
Gamblers – Randy Hundley and Mike Paul

13 - Tim McCarver (Knights)
14 – Al Downing (Legends)
15 – Tom Murphy (Redbirds)
16- Diego Seigui (Angels)

17- Don McMahon (Hard Cider)
18 – Aureilo Rodriguez (Cloverleafs)
19 – Danny Frisella (Skipjacks)
20 – Mickey Stanley (Joes)

21 – Lou Pinella (Gold Sox)
22 – Bruce Dal Canton (Gamblers)
23 – Tony Taylor (Badgers)
24 – Jose Pagan (Diablos)

Gold Sox: Mike Shannon and Johnny Edwards
Legends: Abernathy and Locker
Knights: Sonny Seibert and Ken Suarez
Angels: Jim Holt and Willie Smith
Cloverleafs: Ollie Brown and Phil Regan
Redbirds: Joey Foy and Tom Pheobus
Shoeless Joes: Al ferrara and Andy Etchbarren
Hard Cider: Steve Hamilton and Ted Savage
Skipjacks: Pete Richert and Paul Lindblad
Badgers: Tito Fuentes and Jim Hannan
Gambers: Waslewski and Pete Ward

[sanket]

Jim Maloney

[leecemark]

--Thanks WCF!

[BlueBlood]

Thanks WCF!!! Talk about coming through in the clutch!

[buppers]

It took 2 years (game time) but I think we found Marks secretary, No offense WCF. Just a running gag;)

[Hack_Miller]

Wranglers take Mike Torrez

[BlueBlood]

Brawlers take Ron Bryant from the Knights.

[mac195]

Jim Maloney
Nice pick there. I'm surpirised he lasted this long.

[Windy City Fan]

Jim Bunning of Hard Cider and Ed Brinkman of the Legends

[sanket]

Nice pick there. I'm surpirised he lasted this long.

Same here... I think I have three solid starters right now (Tiant, Pappas, Maloney)...

[Erik Bedard]

Wranglers take Mike Torrez

Ahhh... my next pitcher to be pulled back. Oh well.

[BlueBlood]

Brawlers will take on George Mitterwald of the Skipjacks.

[catcher24]

Jim Bunning of Hard Cider and Ed Brinkman of the Legends

Well, that made my next two pullbacks a much easier decision. I was trying to decide among three players, but one of them is gone now - but probably the one I could least afford to lose out of who's left!

[Hack_Miller]

Wranglers take Vincente Romo

[Windy City Fan]

I was debating between Brinkman and your other SS, but Brinkman's glove won out over Campenaris' speed.

[J W]

Good pick Blueblood. Mitterwald would not have lasted 'till next round.

[sanket]

Ron Taylor
Donn Clendenon

[catcher24]

I was debating between Brinkman and your other SS, but Brinkman's glove won out over Campenaris' speed.

Too bad. I figured Campeneris to go before Brinkman - and was in fact hoping he would. If you change your mind, I'll swap Campy for Brinkman even up.

[jkc32]

Ron Taylor
Donn Clendenon

Shoeless has already had a player taken this round (Romo)...Please select again for Clendenon.

[sanket]

My bad guys... someone already took a player from Shoeless which means i can't take Cledenon...

Ken Barry is my pick.

[Hack_Miller]

Ron Taylor
Donn Clendenon

Clendenon came from Shoeless I believe, I took Romo from them with the previous pick.

[BlueBlood]

My bad guys... someone already took a player from Shoeless which means i can't take Cledenon...

Ken Barry is my pick.

Ron Taylor is also from Cloverleafs, can't have both.

[Windy City Fan]

My bad guys... someone already took a player from Shoeless which means i can't take Cledenon...

Ken Barry is my pick.

Taylor and Barry are both on the Cloverleafs. Gotta drop one and pick someone else.

[BlueBlood]

WCF and I are both quick to spot these things because we're praying a team we want to pick from won't be picketh-ed. ;)

[Windy City Fan]

Eh, its the Gamblers, Badger, Diablos, and Angels left. Not exactly the cream of the crop.

[sanket]

I'll take Ron Taylor and give me like one more minute on the second guy... totally messed up my bad

[catcher24]

Lots of surprises from my viewpoint in this draft so far. In the first round, I only matched three of the first players to be lost (would've been four had Rudi gone), and some of the guys I thought would go early are still out there.

[sanket]

Stan Williams.

[Erik Bedard]

Lots of surprises from my viewpoint in this draft so far. In the first round, I only matched three of the first players to be lost (would've been four had Rudi gone), and some of the guys I thought would go early are still out there.

I didn't think Veale would go at all. I was shuddering anticipating paying that salary for two awful years.

[Hack_Miller]

Tommy Davis from the Angels.

[catcher24]

I didn't think Veale would go at all. I was shuddering anticipating paying that salary for two awful years.

When I saw Veale go first, I knew you'd like that pick after our PM discussion.;)

[BlueBlood]

Tommy Davis from the Angels.

Dagnabbit. That's the one I was hoping to get. :grouchy

[BlueBlood]

The Brawlers "gladly" accept Dick Billings from the Gamblers.

[catcher24]

Dagnabbit. That's the one I was hoping to get. :grouchy

He who hesitates, and all that jazz!:sorry:

[catcher24]

Windy City gets the last pick, then we pull back two more, correct?

[leecemark]

--The good news is you won't be restricted to which rosters you can pick off from here on out. The bad news is there are going to be some bad contracts and terrible players foisted on you as the pool winds down.

[Hack_Miller]

--The good news is you won't be restricted to which rosters you can pick off from here on out. The bad news is there are going to be some bad contracts and terrible players foisted on you as the pool winds down.
Who's on the clock for this first 8-hour window?

[leecemark]

Windy City gets the last pick, then we pull back two more, correct?

correct. owners have til 7am EST to pull back 2 more. The clock for the 10th rounds begins then or when all 12 have made their pullback, whichever comes first. Despite a shakey start to th evening I
think it turned out reasonably well. Thanks to all who took the time to be here tonight.

[sanket]

we done or does WCF have to pick?

[BlueBlood]

Had a great time with the draft, everyone. I'll be on here later to discuss this, that, and the other.

Oy! And there's one player still really high on my list that I didn't get a chance to move on. :pray:

[jkc32]

The Shoeless Joe’s pullback Jim Ray (RP) and Roberto Pena (SS).

[Erik Bedard]

I've got to go now. Since my team's already been picked from, I'll pull back Jim Nash and ehhhh... Wayne Comer.

[Windy City Fan]

Bob Humphreys

[buppers]

Badgers pull back Oyler and Gibbs. What the heck, they're the cheapest of the lot.

You are all welcome to the rest of my overpaid bums :laugh

[leecemark]

Who's on the clock for this first 8-hour window?

WCF, BB, KW, S, S, etc. the same format as tonight until either everyone has 25 players or the pool of players is exhausted, whichever comes first. The main differences between tonight's activiites and the remainder of the draft; longer clock, no restrictions on whose roster you can raid, no pausing for pullbacks and only one pull back per player picked ,

[leecemark]

--The Knights pull back Rich Reese and Wes Parker.

[jterry619]

Paul Popovich and that is it.

[J W]

No pausing for pullbacks? What if picks for whatever reason go rapid-fire?

Assuming that... we'll pull back SS Jerry Kenney (whew) and our secret 70s weapon, DH Hal McRae.

[catcher24]

Great evening - thanks to all.

The Legends pull back Duke Sims and Tommy Harper.

I can't believe neither one of them got picked! Sims only has one year left, but a catcher with a 121 OPS+ in 399 PA (500 with our 125% usage limit) doesn't come up every day, and Harper has OPS+ of 89, 146, 105 - and his OBP is actually 22 points above league average in 1969 - his slugging brings his OPS+ down, but he does steal 73 bases, too.

[Sockeye]

Thank you Mark for handling my pullbacks. My wife and I had a very nice evening.

It's tough to lose three players the caliber of Milty, Diego, and Tommy. They'll all be missed. The Angels organization wishes them all the best success for the coming season.

Sockeye's Angels pullback

Roger Repoz
Norm Miller

[catcher24]

No pausing for pullbacks? What if picks for whatever reason go rapid-fire?

Assuming that... we'll pull back SS Jerry Kenney (whew) and our secret 70s weapon, DH Hal McRae.

Good point about pullbacks. If WCF makes his pick right away from a team (like, say, the Legends) and then BB grabs another Legend an hour later, I really haven't had an eight hour clock or anything close to it to pull back another player. No offense, but at this point my team and a couple others could take a beating, since IMHO we have the best talent left. I'm thinking the team that loses a player should have eight hours to pull another player back before someone can pick from him again. If the team pulls back a guy sooner, fine, then he gets another eight hours if hit again right away. Otherwise my team and a couple others could see three or four guys gone while we sleep tonight! And that wouldn't stop one of the expansion owners from picking a guy from another team if they want to.

[leecemark]

Great evening - thanks to all.

The Legends pull back Duke Sims and Tommy Harper.

I can't believe neither one of them got picked! Sims only has one year left, but a catcher with a 121 OPS+ in 399 PA (500 with our 125% usage limit) doesn't come up every day, and Harper has OPS+ of 89, 146, 105 - and his OBP is actually 22 points above league average in 1969 - his slugging brings his OPS+ down, but he does steal 73 bases, too.


--Both those guys were amoung the stronger players in the draft IMO. Sims I can understand passing on since he'll be gone after 69, but Harper contributes for 3 years at a failry reasonable salary. I was simiilary surprised to get both Reese and Parker back in the third round of pullbacks. I only needed one of them, but both are very good everyday options at 1B for somebody - of only for 69.

[leecemark]

--The no pausing after the first night is not a new development, but has always been part of the setup. Sorry if that was not clearly communicated.
--There are two reasons for it. One, 16 hours(8 draft/8 pullback) is way too long a clock. The offseason schedule allows 2 weeks to complete the expansion draft and I wouldn't want to strech that to a month (especially since it is not going to be a very compelling exercise going forward). Two, half the existing teams really have no more talent to offer. Those of us with a little more depth are going to have to contribute moreif the expansion owners are going to get any kind of fair shake in starting their teams out.

[mac195]

HC pull back Bernie Allen and Johnny Callison.

[catcher24]

--The no pausing after the first night is not a new development, but has always been part of the setup. Sorry if that was not clearly communicated.
--There are two reasons for it. One, 16 hours(8 draft/8 pullback) is way too long a clock. The offseason schedule allows 2 weeks to complete the expansion draft and I wouldn't want to strech that to a month (especially since it is not going to be a very compelling exercise going forward). Two, half the existing teams really have no more talent to offer. Those of us with a little more depth are going to have to contribute moreif the expansion owners are going to get any kind of fair shake in starting their teams out.

I don't see it as 16 hours, but as 8. If someone takes a player from my team, I have 8 hours from that pick to pull another guy back, or I lose that opportunity. I didn't understand that I could possibly lose another four or five players, with no opportunity for a pull back unless I stay up forever, before some other team might lose any one else at all. Guess I should've got that straight before now, so I'll pay the piper. But that sure doesn't mean I'll like it. BTW, once I start to lose guys - because I know it'll be me that takes the worst hit - I can pull one back for every one I lose, right? So if I get up tomorrow to find four or five guys gone, I can pull that many back?

[leecemark]

--One for each one you lose, yes. You won't lose anybody tonight though since the first 8 hour clock is for the third round of pullbacks. Well I suppose you might lose someone if everybody gets their pullbacks in and somebody else is up in the middle of the night to jump in.

[Sockeye]

I don't see it as 16 hours, but as 8. If someone takes a player from my team, I have 8 hours from that pick to pull another guy back, or I lose that opportunity. I didn't understand that I could possibly lose another four or five players, with no opportunity for a pull back unless I stay up forever, before some other team might lose any one else at all. Guess I should've got that straight before now, so I'll pay the piper. But that sure doesn't mean I'll like it. BTW, once I start to lose guys - because I know it'll be me that takes the worst hit - I can pull one back for every one I lose, right? So if I get up tomorrow to find four or five guys gone, I can pull that many back?

An alarm clock could come in mighty handy right about now. I'd put it to good use if I was you. Of course there is no one left from my team that I'd lose a minutes worth of sleep over if they happened to be chosen. I have a feeling though we are safe for the next week or so. ;)

[BlueBlood]

I was looking into Harper, Sims, Reese and Parker amongst others. Part of the problem with the draft system is getting to the right team. Other expansion owners were picking from teams I needed to, but choosing players that were literally like 11th down in my team rankings. There's still a couple players from my Top 9 or 12 or whatever that haven't even been pulled back, just never had a shot to grab 'em.

[-Kyle-]

Gamblers pull back Danny Walton...and uh...Jim Britton.

[catcher24]

Well, I haven't lost anyone else yet. Must be all of the expansion owners were exhausted from the initial nine rounds and slept in!:laugh;)

But since I have several things to do and won't be home most of the day, I'm sending my pull back list to about five guys who I know will be active here today, and asking that if you see a Legend taken, please post a pull back player for me. I appreciate it!:waving

[leecemark]

Redbirds pullback Manny Mota and Frank Fernandez.
WCF your clock is 2 1/2 hours in.

[Windy City Fan]

Gary Peters of the Knights

[leecemark]

--knights pull back carl taylor

[jterry619]

If it is not too late the Cloverleafs pull back Joe Pepitone

[leecemark]

--No you still had the spot open.

[-Kyle-]

Do I have any pull backs left to make?

[sanket]

Is Luis Tiant a free agent after the 1969 season?

[-Kyle-]

Yes. He was drafted in 1964.

[leecemark]

Do I have any pull backs left to make?

Not until another player is picked off your roster.

[-Kyle-]

Gotcha. Thanks.

[BlueBlood]

For the record, my clock always starts 8 Hours after WCF's begins? Or if one of the owners posts 1 minute into their 8 hour clock, then I have to post within 8 hours?

Oh, it's actually my pick. Note that I had a pick here and changed it. My pick is now Chuck Dobson of the Redbirds.

[Erik Bedard]

Eight hours from each pick.

[BlueBlood]

Can we change picks if absolutely nothing has happened? I'd like to change mine real quick. Had someone listed at a position that they totally weren't and now I see that they're very, very valuable.

[Hack_Miller]

What would be the appropriate time to allow for pullbacks? The guy I'm looking at comes from a team that's just lost a player. Does the 8-hr window apply to pullbacks as well?

[BlueBlood]

I'm pretty sure the 8 hour window doesn't apply for pullbacks, there was discussion over it earlier in this thread, I believe. So you can pick from the same team and that owner could lose 5 or more players before they even log on.

Come on! Any response to me concerning whether or not I can pick someone else instead of the person I just drafted if that team hasn't made pullbacks and nobody else has made a draft pick? I don't see why not...

[Hack_Miller]

I'm pretty sure the 8 hour window doesn't apply for pullbacks, there was discussion over it earlier in this thread, I believe. So you can pick from the same team and that owner could lose 5 or more players before they even log on.

Come on! Any response to me concerning whether or not I can pick someone else if that team hasn't made pullbacks and nobody else has made a draft pick? I don't see why not...

I don't see a problem with it. I pick next so it's fine with me.

[BlueBlood]

You're new blood like myself, so I figured you wouldn't mind. I want clarification from one of the established owners though. I'll change the pick right now and see what happens. If they don't allow it, we can switch picks or whatever if that's who you wanted. I'm fair and sportsmanlike. :cool:

[Hack_Miller]

Hate to pick on the same team...but I think I'll take
P- Rudy May.

Dobson was my first choice but May works too.

[BlueBlood]

Hate to pick on the same team...but I think I'll take
P- Rudy May.

Dobson was my first choice but May works too.

Ha ha. I was going to point this out earlier but you and I are playing the exact same game. Hilarious. And I figured you were after Dobson from your post about it being the same team, then I was like "damn, don't want to lose him because I abruptly posted thinking Dobson was an outfielder!"....it's actually tough to tell who will be worth more in the long run. May at least hits an ERA+ of 100 next season so he can help a contender by giving them a solid third/fourth starter. Dobson is below average in three seasons but great for a team like mine (ours) that just needs someone near-average that can go out there and eat a lot of innings.

[jkc32]

--Teams may make adjustments to their protected list until Midnight EST on Monday, May 13. Post those changes in this thread and I will adjust the list of available players accordingly.

Shoeless Joes Expansion Eligible
C: Joe Azcue (1.5M, 1961 draft)
1B: Donn Clendenon (2.5M, 1961 draft)
2B: Tommy Helms (1M, 1964 draft)
2B: Julian Javier (500K, 1968-69)
OF: Curt Blefary (1.5M, 1965 draft)
P: Dick Hall (4.75M, 1961 draft)
P: Ken Johnson (2.5M, 1961 draft)
P: Ray Washburn (2.25M, 1961 draft)
P: Dick Kelley (500K, 1964 draft)
P: Daryl Patterson (500K, 1968 draft)

Dick Hall was pulled back during the draft last night, otherwise the Shoeless available list is correct.

[jkc32]

Sanket should be up for 2 picks...

[catcher24]

Is Luis Tiant a free agent after the 1969 season?

Yes he is.

[BlueBlood]

Fregosi is the really scary player left in this draft. If I don't end up with him, I could make some nice purchases on the free agent market and turn this team into a potential Wild Card winner due to my excess cash, established owners having plenty of contracts, and an assumable strong crop of new FAs. Anyone that gets stuck with Fregosi's bloated 22M salary (I'm assuming it came about because someone was making an all-out run for the championship and needed a quality SS) is pretty much dead in the water for '69. Thunder would practically have his whole cap committed by the end of the rookie draft, and I know I'd have spent like $40M or so which doesn't leave much bargaining room.

[sanket]

Donn Clendenon
Dennis Menke

[leecemark]

Can we change picks if absolutely nothing has happened? I'd like to change mine real quick. Had someone listed at a position that they totally weren't and now I see that they're very, very valuable.


--No problem if you make the change before anybody else goes. Once there has been another pick or a pullback then its a done deal.

[leecemark]

Fregosi is the really scary player left in this draft. If I don't end up with him, I could make some nice purchases on the free agent market and turn this team into a potential Wild Card winner due to my excess cash, established owners having plenty of contracts, and an assumable strong crop of new FAs. Anyone that gets stuck with Fregosi's bloated 22M salary (I'm assuming it came about because someone was making an all-out run for the championship and needed a quality SS) is pretty much dead in the water for '69. Thunder would practically have his whole cap committed by the end of the rookie draft, and I know I'd have spent like $40M or so which doesn't leave much bargaining room.

--I signed Fregosi for the 67 season when I had a big hole at SS. It paid off with a championship - and he was the MVP of the championship series. He was an All Star last year too. He is still a good SS this year, but I have a better one and better use for all that cash.

[jkc32]

Donn Clendenon
Dennis Menke

Shoeless pulls back Julian Javier to compensate for losing Clendenon.

[BlueBlood]

Hack's on the clock, right?

[leecemark]

The Redbirds pullback Gene Micheal and Matty Alou for Rudy May and Dennis Menke.

[Hack_Miller]

If Ollie Brown is still available the Wranglers will take him. If not let me know.

[leecemark]

Brown has been pulled back. I'll get things updated as soon as I can. Been out all day.

[BlueBlood]

The Redbirds pullback Gene Micheal and Matty Alou for Rudy May and Dennis Menke.

I don't think the Redbirds ever did a pullback for my selection of Chuck Dobson.

[leecemark]

I don't think the Redbirds ever did a pullback for my selection of Chuck Dobson.

you're right - tony horton

[Hack_Miller]

Since Brown is no longer available, I think the Wranglers will fill their need at SS with Bert Campaneris.

[BlueBlood]

So hard now to choose....a lot of the players left have a season or two without many AB's and I don't see the point in having a 1B or something that can't play this year, and then shelving him so I can play his sorry 70 OPS+ the next season. In truth, all but maybe five inexpensive players were really worth spending draft picks on - about 80% of the raw talent and All Star caliber seasons came from the surprising abundance of starting/relief pitchers that perform well in the future.

That said, the pitchers all have their own gaps as well and some compete at a high-level but with less than 200 innings which is a tough break in a simulator with MORE games than the regular season. Granted, we are allowed an extra 25% of batters faced...

Well, I need playing time more than anything else Uhlaender's better than average with plenty of AB's. Gotta steal this outfielder from the Gold Sox. :cool:

[sanket]

Mark, can you show the draft order again so I know when I'm up?

[catcher24]

Since Brown is no longer available, I think the Wranglers will fill their need at SS with Bert Campaneris.

Well, that hurts. The Legends will pull back Roger Nelson for the loss of Campy.

[BlueBlood]

Well, that hurts. The Legends will pull back Roger Nelson for the loss of Campy.

Lucky. Nearly chose him just now. ;)

[catcher24]

Sure glad you needed an outfielder more than another pitcher!:p

[catcher24]

Round 1
1) Sanket: Luis Tiant
2) KW: George Scott
3) BlB: Bill Stoneman
4) WCF: Ray Culp
Round 2
5) WCF: Bob Veale
6) BB: Pat Kelly
7) KW: Ken Brett
8) Sanket: Milt Pappas
Round 3
9) Sanket: Hoyt Wilhelm
10) KW: Pat Jarvis
11) BB: Jim Spencer
12) WCF" Al Kaline
End segment 1 - existing owners pull back 2 players each
Round 4:
13) WCF: Tim McCarver
14) BB: Al Downing
15) KW: Tom Murpy
16) Sanket: Degio Segui
Round 5
17) Sanket: Don McMahon
18) KW: Aurielo Rodriguez
19) BB: Dan Frisella
20) WCF: Micky Stanley
Round 6
21) WCF: Lou Pinella
22) BB: Bruce DalCanton
23) KW: Tony Taylor
24) Sanket: Jose Pagan
End segment 2 - pull back 2 more players
Round 7:
5) Sanket: Jim Maloney
26) KW: Mike Torrez
27) BlB: Ron Bryant
28) WCF: Jim Bunning
Round 8:
29 WCF: Eddie Brinkman
30) BB: George Mitterwald
31) KW: Vincent Romo
32) Sanket: Ron Taylor
Round 9
33) Sanket: Stan Williams
34) KW: Tommy Davis
35) BB: Dick Billings
36) WCF: Bob Humphreys
--pull back 2 players per team

Round 10
37) WCF: Gary Peters
38) BB: Chuck Dobson
39) KW: Rudy May
40) Sanket: Donn Clendenon

Round 11
41) Sanket: Denis Menke
42) KW: Bert Campaneris
43) BB: Ted Uhlaender
44) WCF: Don Money

Round 12
45)WCF: Cecil Upshaw
46) BB: Tom Burgmeier
47) KW: Alan Foster
48) Sanket: Curt Blefary

Round 13
49) Sanket: Lee Maye
50) KW: Bob Robertson
51) BB: Pete Mikkelsen
52) WCF: Hank Aguirre

Round 14
53)WCF: Mike Fiore
54) BB:
55) KW:
56) Sanket:

Round 15
57) Sanket
58) KW:
59) BB:
60) WCF:


That's what I have right up to now. Hope it helps.

[BlueBlood]

Get pickin', WCF! We can triple team someone before they get to make any pullbacks!

[leecemark]

--WCF selected Don Money
--WCF sends Money to the Cloverleafs to complete their earlier deal
--PAP pulls back Dave Nelson after the Money pick
--WCF still on the clock for another pick

[Windy City Fan]

Cecil Upshaw is our next pick.

[BlueBlood]

Going with Tom Burgmeier.

[catcher24]

Going with Tom Burgmeier.

Darn, I was hoping he would make it through. He was my next pull back. Would've done him before Nelson, but Nelson is a starter this year and in 72, when I need one. Good pick, BB.

The Legends pull back John Cumberland for the loss of Burgmeier.

[sanket]

Curt Blefary

[jkc32]

Shoeless pulls back Ray Washburn for the Blefary pick.

[BlueBlood]

Wait, sanket picked out of turn. Hack was next.

[sanket]

Whoops... my bad... =/

[leecemark]

--Hack on the clock. Blefary and Washburn both remain in play.

[Hack_Miller]

Wranglers take P-Alan Foster

[jkc32]

Sanket is now up for a pair of picks...

[mac195]

HC pull back Jack Hiatt.

[Erik Bedard]

Lew Krausse will be pulled back for losing Uhlaender.

[sanket]

Curt Blefary
Lee Maye

[leecemark]

--As this pick is an instant replay for the Joe's, I'll go ahead and pull back Ray Washburn as he did the first time.
--The Knights pull back Jack Aker.
--The Wranglers select Bob Robertson.
--The Redbirds pull back Fred Talbot.
--Blueblood back on the clock.

[J W]

Skipjacks pull back Dave Leonhard

[leecemark]

--Your lineup looks awfully good, JW. Glancing over your roster at this point you appear to be maybe one good SP away from giving Lew a real run for his money. Maybe not even that if you're comfortable with McDowell and Odom going on three days rest.
--Actually you do have a hole at SS too. If you want Fregosi back he could be my next pull back and available at a VERY reasonable price (current offer is a 4th rounder and I'd take that if I managed to still have him after the expansion draft).
--Lew, you appear to have a big hole at SS too. Could there be a bidding war for his expensive yet usefull services? Could be a big opportunity for an expansion owner to wheel and deal!

[BlueBlood]

]Could be a big opportunity for an expansion owner to wheel and deal!

Or lose half their leverage in the Free Agent draft. :think:

It would be nice though if you did pull that one back so one of us four doesn't "potentially" (i.e. WILL) get a hole in their wallet.

This one was a toughie but I wanted someone that would pay off now, maybe even in a trade so I'll go with Pete Mikkelsen for my next draft pick.

[catcher24]

--Lew, you appear to have a big hole at SS too. Could there be a bidding war for his expensive yet usefull services? Could be a big opportunity for an expansion owner to wheel and deal!

It won't be Fregosi filling that hole - way too big a contract for my taste. I've been checking the rosters, and someone will probably hear from me eventually. I will probably wait until after the rookie draft and even the free agent auctions before I make the move, though, because with the rest of my lineup I could survive with a couple of platoon guys at shortstop, especially this year with Richie Hebner filling the DH slot. Too bad Harper isn't rated at SS. Even though he played both 3B and 2B he didn't play short.

I think JW will give me a run, but comparing head to head at this point, I think I still have the better team. But we all know how that can work out. Anyway, as I see it:

Catcher: Legends - Bill Freehan 105 OPS+, EX
Skipjacks - Dick Dietz 119/Av
Dietz the better hitter this season, but only 303 PA. Freehan the much better defender. Even counting backups (Sims for Legends, Corrales/ Fosse/ Mitterwald for Skipjacks), I give a slight advantage to the Legends. Jason might see it differently, though! Guess I shouldn't have traded Dietz within the division.:sorry:

1B: Legends - Willie McCovey 211/ Av McCovey's finest season ever
Skipjacks - Boog Powell 160/Av
Boog has a great season, but McCovey's is even better. Legends

2B: Legends - Joe Morgan 109/ Av 49SB
Skipjacks - Davey Johnson 107/Av
Both are average fielders. Johnson has more power, Morgan a better OBP and more speed. A draw for this season. No advantage.


3B: Legends - Mr. Legend, Ron Santo 131/ Vg
Skipjacks - Ken McMullen 122/Ex
Santo has the smallest advantage at bat, McMullen in the field. No advantage.


SS: Legends - Mr. Queston Mark ???
Skipjacks - Tom Tresh 78/Vg
I'd be better off with JW's backup (Dick Schofield) than I am without anyone. Definite advantage to the Skipjacks.

LF: Legends - Reggie Smith 143/ Vg
Skipjacks - Carl Yastrzemski 135/Av
These two guys were actually on the same team in real life. No advantage.

CF: Legends - Rick Monday 132/Av
Skipjacks - Curt Flood 100/Ex
Flood a far better fielder, but Monday's advantage at the plate is too large. Legends.

RF: Legends - Hank Aaron 177/ Vg Another great season for the Hammer
Skipjacks - Bobby Tolan 124/Vg
Jason's been waiting for Tolan a while, and he finally blossoms. Terrific on the basepaths (26 SB), but still no match for Hammerin' Hank. Legends

DH: Legends - Richie Hebner 127 OPS+
Skipjacks - Ken Harrelson/ Joe Torre / Mack Jones and others. Much better set for a platoon arrangement than the Legends, and many more options in case of injury. Skipjacks

SP: Legends - Fergie Jenkins, 126 ERA+/1.14 WHIP/311 IP; Bill Hands, 162/1.14/300; Tom Seaver, 166/1.04/273; Dock Ellis, 97/1.29/218 (the weak link); Roger Nelson, 112/1.22/193 (Will probably get most of the fourth slot starts)
Skipjacks - Joe Horlen, 103/1.33/235; Sam McDowell, 127/1.14/285; Blue Moon Odom (another acquisition from the Legends :sorry:), 118/1.26/231; Earl Wilson, 114/1.30/214
McDowell matches well with Jenkins, Horlen matches well against Nelson/Ellis, but Odom and Wilson are no match for Seaver and Hands. If Jason uses Dean Chance to take some of Horlen's or Wilson's starts, that helps to close the gap some but not enough. Legends


Bullpen: Legends - Bob Locker, 117/1.27; Sparky Lyle, 150, 1.35; Ted Abernathy, 127/1.37; Lindy McDaniel, 98/1.28 This could be my biggest area of concern, and I may be looking for a mid-reliever in the rookie draft or the FA auctions. The ERAs are nice; the only one with a decent WHIP is Locker, and it isn't even that good.
Skipjacks - Dave Leonhard, 144/1.23; Paul Lindblad, 83/1.34; Bob Miller, 123/1.26; Frank Reberger, 98/1.41; Pete Richert, 163/0.98; Cecil Upshaw (geez, another former Legend :sorry:), 125/1.24
The Legends have no one this year to compare with Richert, and only Locker truly compares to Leonhard, Miller and Upshaw. Definite advantage to Skipjacks.

Bench: Legends - C/1B Duke Sims 121, VG; 3B/1B - Hebner; 3B/2B/OF - Tommy Harper, 89, but his OBP is 20 points above league average, with 72 SB. Need backups in the middle infield.
Skipjacks - Fiore, Harrelson, Kenney, Keough, Torre, Morton - Much better prepared for a serious injury than the Legends. Skipjacks

OK, can you tell I had some time to kill? :laugh

Anyway, I see the Legends with the advantage at catcher, first base, center field, right field and starting pitching. The Skipjacks have the advantage at shortstop (a very significant advantage), DH and in the bullpen. I see no advantage either way at second, third and left.

I think at this point, my advantage in the starting staff will help keep me on top. But if I have several injuries during the season, I am much less able to deal with them than the Skipjacks, and his bullpen appears to be much better prepared to close games than mine. Thankfully, I have three horses in my rotation and so will certainly use the four man rotation again, with Nelson and Ellis taking turns in the fourth slot. If Jason can pick up another top starter, either via free agency or trade, there is no doubt he will push me hard for the top. Conversely, if I can pick up another top starter or a top closer, the advantage will still be mine. Should be a very interesting season in the Hulbert!

[Windy City Fan]

I've been trying to shop Fregosi to a couple of teams, but the best offer I got was a 4th round pick, which isn't worth the bother to me.

[Windy City Fan]

Hank Aguire and Mike Fiore

[leecemark]

--A 4th round offer is the best I got too, but I'd take that over some of the players you'll have to choose from by the end of this draft.
--The Knights pull back Gary Sutherland.

[leecemark]

--Lew I expect Torre will be getting alot of action for the Skipjacks at catcher this year. He didn't play much there in real life, but he is acceptable defensively and can play there almost everyday if Jason wanted.

[BlueBlood]

Lew Krausse.

[Erik Bedard]

Already pulled back. Post 374.

[-Kyle-]

IF I lose Petrocelli in the FA Market I will be contacting for Fregosi right away. How long is he signed for?

[BlueBlood]

Hmm. Horacio Pina.

[Hack_Miller]

Wranlers will take P-Jim Hardin.

[mac195]

HC pull back Pete Mikkelsen and Lee Stange.

[jkc32]

HC pull back Pete Mikkelsen and Lee Stange.


Mikkelson was selected by Blueblood at post #379 in this thread.

[mac195]

Oh yeah, thanks. Looks like the new guys cleaned me out while I slept.

HC have nobody left worth pulling back.

[BlueBlood]

Oh yeah, thanks. Looks like the new guys cleaned me out while I slept.

HC have nobody left worth pulling back.

Yeah, you do. To be nice. :p

[leecemark]

IF I lose Petrocelli in the FA Market I will be contacting for Fregosi right away. How long is he signed for?

--1969 is the last year of his deal. He is overpaid but if you need a SS and have the cap space he is one of the better ones in the league. That its only a one year commitment should make it not so hard to swallow for someone. The losers of the Petrocelli Sweepstakes will have that kind of cash set aside anyway (or if they don't they weren't serious about landing Rico).

[Erik Bedard]

That makes it great that I have Mark Belanger.

[leecemark]

--Sanket's clock is expired. Two make ups coming when you get on.
--KW selects Andy Kosco, Sockeye has pull back coming.
--BB on the clock til 314PM EST.

[Sockeye]

Sockeye's Angels pullback player/manager Bobby Cox

[J W]

Lew, Mark: You better believe Torre will see time at catcher. I don't think Ray Fosse will make the 25-man until next season.

I think you're right Mark; we're looking for an ace for 1969-70 with no significant future past that. More than anything else.

The Skipjacks will pull back the last player of any salary note, just because we want him to retire a Skipjack: Dean Chance. Our bullpen is still on track with the loss of I believe just Upshaw for '69. Retaining Flood, Chance and Richert... we won't be significant players in the FA market it appears.

Losing Mitterwald and Fiore does weaken our bench. We'll be looking for a depth player or two.

[J W]

Also remember I caught Harrelson is a FA. That leaves six players on our list:

RF Rick Reichardt (1.0) #64
IF Dick Schofield (.5) $68-69
LHP Danny Coombs (.25) $68-70
OF Joe Keough (.25) #68
OF Bubba Morton (.25) $68-69
RHP Frank Reberger (.25) #68

It might be good to list who's left at this point from each team.

[Erik Bedard]

I've got three guys that I would pull back if anybody wants the guys on my team.

[BlueBlood]

Rick Reichardt...lots of AB's, acceptable stats, only one year left on his contract. We'll take that.

[J W]

We'll pull back Danny Coombs and his crucial IP for 1970.

[Sockeye]

The Angels have 4 players still unprotected.

Ron Swoboda (1.50) (traded for 1968, FA after 1970)
Rich Nye (1.00) (drafted 1966, leaves after 1970)
Dick Ellsworth (4.50) (drafted 1961)
Dalton Jones (1.00) (drafted, FA after 1969)

Now please don't make a run on them. We'd hate to lose all four!

[leecemark]

--I've been updating the eligible pool in post 2 as we go along. By my count there are still 70 players left to choose from. The wouldn't quite be enough if there is a pull back for every pick, but several teams have stopped (the Diablos never started:p) pulling players back. I expect we'll end up getting to 25 players per team and there will still be at least a little flexibilty at the end.

[Windy City Fan]

Ed Stroud and Fred Beene

[catcher24]

Ed Stroud and Fred Beene

Ouch, that one hurts:sigh:. Especially Beene, who I was counting on for 72 & 73 when all my other relievers are pretty much done. I was hoping somebody in the middle would take one so I could pull back the other one.

The Legends will pull back Mike Jorgenson and Dave May.

That leaves Ron Kline as the only player on my roster left available. I can't believe anyone would take him, and I most certainly won't be keeping him, although if he's left at the end and I just need a hole filled I may keep him, just so his entire career was as a Legend.

[catcher24]

And now I'm mighty thankful I didn't trade Tommy Harper, since he will now be my primary backup in the outfield.:applaud:

[BlueBlood]

Thought Fred Beene's was expiring at 72 for some reason. Dumb me. 218 ERA+ in 73. I think part of the reason I avoided his pickup also had to do with him being pretty useless until '73. Quality in '72 but that's with very few IP. That Beene 73 season would be a big help/good tradebait. My bad.

[BlueBlood]

We'll take Dick Kelley's last season. Almost average starter for '69. Going for pitching-in-the-now because I think I can't do much worse on the free agent market with position players than what's left in this pool.

[leecemark]

--Shoeless Joes pull back Joe Azcue for Kelly

[Hack_Miller]

The Wranglers will take P-Frank Reberger

[J W]

Skipjacks pull back IF Dick Schofield

[leecemark]

--The draft will have a short pause. Sanket missed his last clock and has not been heard from in 36 hours - not responding to PM. Following his lack of preparation for the live portion of this draft I'm forced to conclude that he can not be counted on as an owner in this league. I've issued an invitation to The Dude, former owner of the Gamblers, to take over. I don't want him any further behind than he already is so we'll wait until he can make the 2 picks missed by Sanket and the 2 he now has on the clock. Sorry for the inconvenience.

[catcher24]

I'm truly sorry to see this happen.:sorry: I thought after we had gotten past the problems at the start of the draft that Sanket would be fine. Unfortunately, that doesn't appear to be the case. I will without doubt be glad to see Wil back if he decides to take the team. :nod::waving

[catcher24]

Since I can't remember which players were on what teams prior to the draft, I'm curious who has suffered the most losses. The Legends lost seven, and don't expect to lose any more. And even if someone did take Ron Kline, we couldn't really count that one as a loss at this point. I would've lost eight and maybe even nine had I not traded Dick Green and Art Shamsky prior to the draft. How many have you other guys lost/anticipate losing?

[leecemark]

--The Knights have contributed 6 players so far.

[J W]

We've lost 7 players totaling 3.75 mil and will lose one more I'm sure.

We've lost 4 players expected to be on the 25-man roster in 1969 but no starters.

[buppers]

Unfortunately, the Badgers ONLY lost 3

[buppers]

Boy, do I regret not waiting for an expansion team.
I have all the makings of an expansion team without the benefits of a top 4 draft pick:cry:

[mac195]

The HC have lost 6, fortunately, other than Pat Jarvis, none of them had much value. By the way, Dick Hughes is retired and should be crossed off my list of eligible players, and BB picked Pete Mikkelsen in round 13, notTed Uhleader.

[Hack_Miller]

--The draft will have a short pause. Sanket missed his last clock and has not been heard from in 36 hours - not responding to PM. Following his lack of preparation for the live portion of this draft I'm forced to conclude that he can not be counted on as an owner in this league. I've issued an invitation to The Dude, former owner of the Gamblers, to take over. I don't want him any further behind than he already is so we'll wait until he can make the 2 picks missed by Sanket and the 2 he now has on the clock. Sorry for the inconvenience.

Man had I known this guy was going to jump ship even before the draft finished I sure wouldn't have conceded that Rudi pick to him ...? :dismay:

With the salary he already had piled up I sure hope whomever we find to take his spot likes to trade because at this rate he might have trouble franchising a player....

[jaybird_1981]

--The draft will have a short pause. Sanket missed his last clock and has not been heard from in 36 hours - not responding to PM. Following his lack of preparation for the live portion of this draft I'm forced to conclude that he can not be counted on as an owner in this league. I've issued an invitation to The Dude, former owner of the Gamblers, to take over. I don't want him any further behind than he already is so we'll wait until he can make the 2 picks missed by Sanket and the 2 he now has on the clock. Sorry for the inconvenience.


Just wanted to say if your old owner is unable to take this team I would love an opportunity to take it. Thanks,

Jason

[catcher24]

We've lost 7 players totaling 3.75 mil and will lose one more I'm sure.

We've lost 4 players expected to be on the 25-man roster in 1969 but no starters.

I also lost four players that I expected to be on the 25 man roster this season, including my starting and backup shortstops (Campy was actually projected to be my backup; Brinkman is quite a bit better in 1969 - the Ted Williams influence, I believe). Tiant would very probably have been released to free agency anyway, due to his salary and only one year left on the contract, but Downing, Campy, Brinkman and Stroud were all expected to be on the active squad. As mentioned, I would've lost one or both of Green and Shamsky (also expected to be on my 25 man roster) had I not traded them, so realistically the expansion took six of my projected 25 man roster, and has simply devastated my anticipated reserves.

I expect both free agent auctions to be really crazy this year - lots of holes to fill on every team. And the rookie draft will likely see any player with any respectable season in the next six go somewhere.

[catcher24]

Man had I known this guy was going to jump ship even before the draft finished I sure wouldn't have conceded that Rudi pick to him ...? :dismay:

With the salary he already had piled up I sure hope whomever we find to take his spot likes to trade because at this rate he might have trouble franchising a player....

Yes, Mark and I have discussed this via PM. It is unfortunate that we didn't know this in advance. Whoever takes over that team should plan on a complete rebuild for 1970, or at least a major one. They will almost certainly have to find a way to afford a franchise player, though, especially with three top catchers on the market. That 12M looks steep now, but at the end of six years it'll look like a bargain if the right player is tapped!

[Erik Bedard]

There are at least four guys in this draft who would be good choices as FPs, particularly one who can be kept for the next quarter of a century. And since there will be a new tag as soon as next year, there's very little risk to it this time.

Also, isn't the rule that we must declare it before arbitration (3rd season), though? So if Wil takes a guy worth tagging, he can wait until he sheds some salaries before tagging him. Or does that not start until the 70's?

[Sockeye]

The Angels have contributed 4 players worth $18.50 mil in salary.

[BlueBlood]

It's a real shame if sanket is totally out of the league especially because he made all of those picks without doing any research. Tiant to a one year contract in '69 as the first? I'm sure in retrospect we all wish the draft had been rescheduled. :radio

[jaybird_1981]

It's a real shame if sanket is totally out of the league especially because he made all of those picks without doing any research. Tiant to a one year contract in '69 as the first? I'm sure in retrospect we all wish the draft had been rescheduled. :radio

Yeah as an outsider watching I was thinking Rudi was going to be the pick there :noidea

[jterry619]

It'll work out...somebody is always looking for a team in an excellent league...part of the fun is rebuilding...that being said , I should have a blast..ha!

[jaybird_1981]

It'll work out...somebody is always looking for a team in an excellent league...part of the fun is rebuilding...that being said , I should have a blast..ha!

Yeah that's the most fun, turning the worst team into a contender.

[leecemark]

There are at least four guys in this draft who would be good choices as FPs, particularly one who can be kept for the next quarter of a century. And since there will be a new tag as soon as next year, there's very little risk to it this time.

Also, isn't the rule that we must declare it before arbitration (3rd season), though? So if Wil takes a guy worth tagging, he can wait until he sheds some salaries before tagging him. Or does that not start until the 70's?

--That is for the second phase franchise players (one drafted in 70s, 80s, etc). If the expnsion owners use the franchise tag this year it is 12M from year 1. Still worth it for all of them IMO.

[The Dude]

So I can give the franchise tag to anyone I draft this year in the expansion draft? Or is it only for my first pick in the rookie draft?

It's been a while :ughh

[Erik Bedard]

Just the first pick in the rookie draft. Which will be a good one. As I said, there are about six players worth tagging.

[The Dude]

Alright, thanks for clearing it up. Remind me not to take a year off again, lol.

K. I'm just getting all the roster information from Sanket's picks, so I know what I've got, then I'll make those picks, so it might be 15 minutes or so.

[leecemark]

It's a real shame if sanket is totally out of the league especially because he made all of those picks without doing any research. Tiant to a one year contract in '69 as the first? I'm sure in retrospect we all wish the draft had been rescheduled. :radio

--If I had to do over again I would have made the switch as soon as he wasn't ready with his first pick. Unfortunately my time machine is on the fritz and Wil will have to make do with the uninspired selections of Sanket for his first year back.

[The Dude]

Here's what I've got for the roster:

RHSP: Luis Tiant (64 Draft, 3.5m)
RHSP: Milt Pappas (68-70, 4.75m)
RHSP: Jim Maloney
RHSP: Stan Williams (61 Draft, 2m)
RHRP: Hoyt Wilhelm
RHRP: Diego Segui (68-71)
RHRP: Don McMahon
RHRP: Ron Taylor (65-69, 4.75m)
1B: Curt Blefary
3B/LF: Jose Pagan (.5m)
SS: Dennis Menke
RF/LF: Lee Maye (61 Draft, 2m)

Any help with what their contracts amount are supposed to be, or lengths, would be greatly appreciated.

BTW Mark, I'm sure we've gone over this before, but what are the rules for expansion picks of players drafted in 61, 62, and 63?

[catcher24]

There are at least four guys in this draft who would be good choices as FPs, particularly one who can be kept for the next quarter of a century. And since there will be a new tag as soon as next year, there's very little risk to it this time.

Also, isn't the rule that we must declare it before arbitration (3rd season), though? So if Wil takes a guy worth tagging, he can wait until he sheds some salaries before tagging him. Or does that not start until the 70's?

That starts with the 70s, Dan. If the new owners want a FP for the 60s, they have to name the first player taken in this year's draft. That's the criteria we used in the formation draft, and also the criteria we set for you guys in the 1964 expansion.

You're correct about the new rule. An owner has to declare a player a Franchise Player when he comes due for his arbitration bump.

[The Dude]

I'll take J.C. Martin with my pick.

[catcher24]

Hey, Wil, welcome back! :wavingToo bad it had to be under these circumstances, but it's great to have you in the league again!:clapping:gt

[The Dude]

And with my next pick, I'll take Dalton Jones.

Thanks Lew, it's good to be back. I agree, things could have been better, but at least I'll have an excuse for a bad team, unlike the Gamblers love of under performing.

[The Dude]

With the next pick, I'll take Vern Fuller.

[The Dude]

And finally we'll take Dan McGinn

[sanket]

I didn't respond to the PM because I haven't been around a computer... my bad... whatever, though... good luck with your teams... I spent all that time in the expansion draft, scouting the rookie draft and making my list... and now I just lose my team because I didn't respond to a PM within a day? That's the most retarded thing I've ever heard.

[Sockeye]

Sockeye's Angels pullback...Rich Nye

[jkc32]

Here's what I've got for the roster:

RHRP: Hoyt Wilhelm

Any help with what their contracts amount are supposed to be, or lengths, would be greatly appreciated.

FYI...Hoyt Wilhelm was traded to the Shoeless Joe's during the pullback period for Donn Clendenon ($2.5M, signed in 1961) and Shoeless' 3rd round pick in 1973.

[leecemark]

Here's what I've got for the roster:

RHSP: Luis Tiant (64 Draft, 3.5m)
RHSP: Milt Pappas (68-70, 4.75m)
RHSP: Jim Maloney (8.5M, 61 draft)
RHSP: Stan Williams (61 Draft, 2m)
RHRP: Hoyt Wilhelm (11.25, 61 draft)
RHRP: Diego Segui (12.75 68-71)
RHRP: Don McMahon (10.5, 65-69)
RHRP: Ron Taylor (65-69, 4.75m)
1B: Curt Blefary (1.5M, 65 draft)
3B/LF: Jose Pagan (68-70, .5m)
SS: Dennis Menke (14M 68-70)
RF/LF: Lee Maye (61 Draft, 2m)

Any help with what their contracts amount are supposed to be, or lengths, would be greatly appreciated.

BTW Mark, I'm sure we've gone over this before, but what are the rules for expansion picks of players drafted in 61, 62, and 63?

--Missing contracts bolded above.
--1961 players, unless they've already been free agents are on year to year deals. All 1962 players have been exposed to free agency so you inherit whatever deal they signed. 1963 players are all free agent eligible this year. If you've drafted one it means he was exposed to free agency earlier than scheduled and again you inherit that deal.

[jkc32]

--Wilhelm was traded to the Cloverleafs after he was picked. If I remember right, you got a second round pick for him. Can you confirm that Joe?
Close...Wilhelm was traded to Shoeless for a 3rd round pick (1973) and Donn Clendenon (whom Sanket took with a pullback selection).

[leecemark]

--Okay, back to normal operations. KW on the clock.

[jterry619]

Nope...Wilhelm was not traded to the Leafs.

[leecemark]

--Okay I got the team wrong and the round wrong, but other than that - and forgetting about the other player involved - I really knew what I was talking about:blush:

[catcher24]

Wil, are you going to keep the Philadelphia White Rage name, or choose your own? How about home park? If you want to change either of those things, now is the time to do it because it's easy to do at this point.

[jkc32]

--Okay I got the team wrong and the round wrong, but other than that - and forgetting about the other player involved - I really knew what I was talking about:blush:

You knew it was a Joe so you get partial credit.:dance

[Hack_Miller]

The Wranglers select OF-Mike Lum

[leecemark]

--The Knights pull back Gary Ross.

[BlueBlood]

Ted Kubiak has value for the next three years and can fill in gaps. I'll take 'em despite his .75M asking price being much higher than what I'm used to. :rofl:

[Erik Bedard]

Dang... he was going to be my next pullback.

[leecemark]

--Lum was going to be mine too. He is actually the first of my 7 that I was disapponted to lose. Nice backup outfielder - EX defense in all 3 fields and he has a little upside down the road.
--Of the first 6, McCarver was the one I would of any interest in retaining. Suarez is as good a backup this year at a significantly lower salary, but McCarver would have been a good backup for a long time (he is a decent starter for somebody else this year, but Sanguillen takes over for me). Aguirre is a solid LH set up guy, but I had cheaper option who are as good and more durable. Lee Maye is an okay 4th outfielder - maybe better than Lum this year, but with a higher salary and less upside.
--Gary Peters had some sentimental value to me, but I couldn't see a role for him this year. His 200+ IP do have value to a expansion team though, even if they are very good. He is around league average for another 200+ next year at minimum wage which will make him a valuable player. He has won 84 games for the Knights and I would have liked to give him the opportunity to get to 100. He would have made the rotation next year had I not lost him. So maybe his being drafted saved me from myself;).
--Ron Bryant is pretty worthless this year, but does have one good, cheap year as a starting pitcher in his future. I was surprized to lose Ken Brett so early. I didn't see him as more than a back of the bullpen guy in his best years under club control. He was kind of interesting mostly because he is a good pinch hitter a few seasons.

[Erik Bedard]

Of the five guys I lost, I was absolutely thrilled to lose Veale. That cleared up a whole bunch of salary for me, I've all but stopped using ERA+ as a predictor stat, and shifted to WHIP, where Veale is, to say the least, not great. Piniella was a bit disappointing, since he took 2.25M of my money for nothing, but he's got just the one year left, and he wouldn't be more than a sixth OF/1B/DH type, behind Hegan, Northrup, Mincher, Crawford, and Comer (who will get lots of PT as Hegan and Crawford aren't full-time). Uhlaender was #7 on that same depth chart, so losing him doesn't really matter. Torrez' control issues made losing him not that big of a deal. Kubiak has to consider himself lucky to have been in the big leagues all of last season on a team that made the DM Classic. Still, it hurts a little to see the former Mr. Irrelevant go.

[baseballPAP]

I'm admittedly days behind here guys....
looks like a bit of a bump in the middle of the draft!

I noticed Don Money listed to WCF with the #44 pick....he was on my original protected list. Did I slip him off Mark, or is this a goof.

Also, somewhere there should be a trade(not in the thread and I apologize) that I need to approve.....hereby doing so.

Back from the land of the bad-chemo.....
~Scott (PAP)

[jterry619]

I'm admittedly days behind here guys....
looks like a bit of a bump in the middle of the draft!

I noticed Don Money listed to WCF with the #44 pick....he was on my original protected list. Did I slip him off Mark, or is this a goof.

Also, somewhere there should be a trade(not in the thread and I apologize) that I need to approve.....hereby doing so.

Back from the land of the bad-chemo.....
~Scott (PAP)


Hey Scott...so glad you are up and running my man...yeah, Money was drafted and traded to traded to the Leafs as part of a larger trade.

[Windy City Fan]

Ramon Hernandez and Bubba Morton

[J W]

Skipjacks pull back Joe Keough. Zero players left under contract; we're done.

[-Kyle-]

Back from the land of the bad-chemo.....
~Scott (PAP)

:o Good to hear you are doing well...that sounds ******.

[leecemark]

I'm admittedly days behind here guys....
looks like a bit of a bump in the middle of the draft!

I noticed Don Money listed to WCF with the #44 pick....he was on my original protected list. Did I slip him off Mark, or is this a goof.

Also, somewhere there should be a trade(not in the thread and I apologize) that I need to approve.....hereby doing so.

Back from the land of the bad-chemo.....
~Scott (PAP)

The below was what was posted for your protected list, so yes the Money pick was in error. I'll return him to your roster. Sorry this wasn't caught earlier WCF. You can take a makeup now or I'll give you a sandwich pick between the 3rd and 4th rounds. Let me know which you prefer. As the following trade included a player that was not available the Thunder and Cloverleafs will have to restructure or cancel the deal involving Money. Again, sorry the error was not caught earlier.

--Salaries have been updated for 1969

14 man protected squad
1B: Lee May (1.25M, 65 draft)
1B: Nate Colbert(500K, 66 draft)
2B: Rod Carew (1.5M, 67 draft)
3B: Don Money (250K, 68 draft)
OF: Carlos May (1 M, 68 draft)
OF: Paul Blair (1 M, 64 draft)
OF: Reggie Jackson (1 M, 67 draft)
OF: Jim Hickman (8 M, 66fa signed through '70)
P: Don Wilson (1.5M, 66 draft)
P: Nelson Briles (2 M, 65 draft)
P: Jack Billingham (500 K, 68 draft)
RP: Mike Marshall (500 K, 67 draft)
RP: Clay Carroll (1.25M, 64 draft)
RP: Darold Knowles (1 M, 65 draft)

[leecemark]

--Scott, could you please confirm in the offseason thread on the deal so you can make sure it was posted as you understood/agreed to it.

[leecemark]

Skipjacks pull back Joe Keough. Zero players left under contract; we're done.


--You still have Tom Tresh out there. He can't be non-tendered until after the expansion draft - and he may be your best option at SS now.

[jterry619]

The below was what was posted for your protected list, so yes the Money pick was in error. I'll return him to your roster. Sorry this wasn't caught earlier WCF. You can take a makeup now or I'll give you a sandwich pick between the 3rd and 4th rounds. Let me know which you prefer. As the following trade included a player that was not available the Thunder and Cloverleafs will have to restructure or cancel the deal involving Money. Again, sorry the error was not caught earlier.

--Salaries have been updated for 1969

14 man protected squad
1B: Lee May (1.25M, 65 draft)
1B: Nate Colbert(500K, 66 draft)
2B: Rod Carew (1.5M, 67 draft)
3B: Don Money (250K, 68 draft)
OF: Carlos May (1 M, 68 draft)
OF: Paul Blair (1 M, 64 draft)
OF: Reggie Jackson (1 M, 67 draft)
OF: Jim Hickman (8 M, 66fa signed through '70)
P: Don Wilson (1.5M, 66 draft)
P: Nelson Briles (2 M, 65 draft)
P: Jack Billingham (500 K, 68 draft)
RP: Mike Marshall (500 K, 67 draft)
RP: Clay Carroll (1.25M, 64 draft)
RP: Darold Knowles (1 M, 65 draft)


Well this will complicate matters a bit but since it is Scott and he is a reasonably decent guy...well sort of reasonably decent guy..ha!...

Thunder what say you...how can we resolve this? Please email me at jterry619@msn.com instead of the private message route ..it will be easier for me via that communication route tonite..thanks.

[BlueBlood]

Sandy Alomar will fill SS for this season so I don't have to worry about it. 'Tis my pick.

[Windy City Fan]

Could we freeze the expansion draft for a moment till this gets sorted out. If I do take a makeup pick, I want it now, not 3 picks down the road.

[leecemark]

--You can take the makeup pick or the compensation draft pick now and try and work things out with Joe later. Or you can hold off and hope Scott takes the compenasation pick and your draft/trade of Money can stand. I don't think the quality of player you get is going to vary much between now and when the clock gets back to you though. Its pretty much a choice between the lesser of evils now. I'd like to get this done with some time to spare before the rookie draft.

[Sockeye]

What round is the expansion draft in?

[leecemark]

--Its in the 18th round. I've kept the picks updated in post 1 and the eligible list in post 2.

[catcher24]

Of the seven guys I lost, I'm least happy about Al Downing and, surprisingly, Ed Brinkman. Downing has some decent seasons coming up, but he also had some sentimental value, since he was an original 1961 draftee and I'd hoped he would finish with the Legends. Brinkman, OTOH, was a cheap pickup in the 1967 FA draft, but was tabbed as my starting SS for the 1969 and 1970 seasons. Tiant and Campy probably hurt me the least, since chances were both were getting released anyway.

Scott, glad you're back, to a degree anyway. Hope the problem subsides soon and isn't an ongoing thing. Best of luck, and you're in my prayers.

[Hack_Miller]

Wranglers will take SP-George Brunet

[leecemark]

--Its starting to look like nobody is going to take Fregosi off my hands. I'll try and make him look a little sweeter. I'll send my third round pick this year to any expansion owner who takes on that contract.

[The Dude]

AC Appletonia takes Jim Fregosi.

[leecemark]

--The Knights pull back Fred Lasher. We then send Lasher and the Angels 3rd round pick in the 1969 rookie draft to AC for Don McMahon. Wil, please confirm.

[The Dude]

Confirmed.

GM Moe Green had this to say about the deal.

"Well, you know how it goes. Deals under the table, deals over the table, who gives a rats bossom, know what I mean? So don't come into my office, and tell me how to run my team. This works out great for both the Knights and Appletonia. Great deal."

[mac195]

I knew Fregosi wouln't last long with that generous offer attatched.

[BlueBlood]

Yar, that was a pretty good offer. I'd have bitten. $22M is only a blockade if you plan to spend a great deal on FAs in '69 and I doubt any expansion owners were considering too go on a shopping spree to that extent.

Moreso, it's a godsend for the Knights who not only had a great team before this but now have $22 million to play with.

[catcher24]

--Its starting to look like nobody is going to take Fregosi off my hands. I'll try and make him look a little sweeter. I'll send my third round pick this year to any expansion owner who takes on that contract.


--The Knights pull back Fred Lasher. We then send Lasher and the Angels 3rd round pick in the 1969 rookie draft to AC for Don McMahon. Wil, please confirm.

Wait, isn't this collusion or something? ;):nod: Boy, some people will do anything to dump a bad contract!:laugh:laugh

Now I'm going to be really upset when Mark outbids me for a free agent.:rant::grouchy

[leecemark]

--My financial situation is about the same as it was before the deal. I would have bought out the last year of Fregosi deal for 11M. Instead I took on McMahon's deal at 10.5. What it really amounts to is I traded my third rounder for McMahon and 500K. Perhaps I could have waited and one of the other expansion owners would have taken on the whole load, but Wil had a bunch of bad contracts already and couldn't really afford to take Fregosi without getting rid of one of them. Mcmahon is a usefull player and having him beats flushing 11M down the tiolet by a long shot:clapping.
--I'm at 25 players/77.5 M now. I suppose I could go for 14 minimum wage players and have 19M to go after the player I want in free agency, but a) I don't know if 19M gets the job done and b) the guys that are going to be left on the scrap heap for minimum this year are likely to be terrible. What I'd really like is a another quality starting pitcher, but there are only 2 of those with more than one good year so I'm not exactly counting on landing one.

[leecemark]

--Wil, in the excitement of the Fregosi deal you neglected to take your other pick. Your clock is expired now, so take the make up when you can. Wranglers back on the clock.

[Erik Bedard]

I think I'm at about 30 players/65M right now. That gives me a lot to spend on my three main targets (hopefully I can at least get one).

[The Dude]

AC Appletonia has another trade to announce:

They send Milt Pappas to the Skipjacks for the Skipjacks 2nd round draft pick this season, and 3rd rounder in 1971.


Sorry about missing the pick. I wasn't sure if you guys had to pull anyone back.

[J W]

--You still have Tom Tresh out there. He can't be non-tendered until after the expansion draft - and he may be your best option at SS now.

Oops. Yes, Tresh is our SS now. If he hasn't been pulled back, we'll do that and throw Keough to the wolves.

Thanks for catching that.

[The Dude]

With the next pick, AC Appletonia selects Gene Brabender.

[Hack_Miller]

The Wranglers will take 1B/OF Deron Johnson.

[buppers]

-- What I'd really like is a another quality starting pitcher, but there are only 2 of those with more than one good year so I'm not exactly counting on landing one.

Don't know if you're interested but I have Dave Boswell. Only 1 good year - 1969.
256 IP
3.23 ERA
1.22 WHIP

2.0 salary for 1969 then FA

[The Dude]

Is there some sort of compensation for Wilhelm not actually being drafted, or was that the previous owners mistake?

[-Kyle-]

With the next pick, AC Appletonia selects Gene Brabender.

:laugh An old buddy!

Gamblers pull back Paul Casanova.

[BlueBlood]

K, don't think there's anyone left with a big year or anything above mediocrity with the exception of Alou. I'll take Eddie Leon from the Gamblers because at least I'll have a lot of 3B or SS at-bats in 70/71 if worst comes to worst.

[Erik Bedard]

So why aren't you taking Alou?

[BlueBlood]

So why aren't you taking Alou?

Good question. He's only $5 million, not like it would put a damper on my Free Agent payroll much. I almost did this morning, actually.

[leecemark]

Is there some sort of compensation for Wilhelm not actually being drafted, or was that the previous owners mistake?


--Wilhelm was drafted and then traded.

[-Kyle-]

Crap, I did not see you took Alomar as well. I will pull back Hank Allen and John Donaldson.

I lost like 7 players and I only have 20 real players...I will be looking for playing time by 1971 :hp

[J W]

AC Appletonia has another trade to announce:

They send Milt Pappas to the Skipjacks for the Skipjacks 2nd round draft pick this season, and 3rd rounder in 1971.


Sorry about missing the pick. I wasn't sure if you guys had to pull anyone back.

Argh, sorry, missed that too... Skipjacks confirm the deal.

Beanie Bill is officially wheeling and dealing now. Graig Nettles will be available to anyone for the right draft pick or package of draft picks.

[J W]

On the heels of the Pappas deal, the Skipjacks announce a trade with the Wranglers, aquiring SP Pat Jarvis for their 2nd round pick in 1971.

Our '69 team likely won't be any more than a Wild Card competitor... but with the acquisitions of Hargan, Pappas and now Jarvis, the team is close to being locked-and-loaded for their last hurrah before implosion.

I'm looking for Jarvis' current salary and can't find him on the rosters page. He is a '66 draft pick right?

Wranglers, please confirm.

[Hack_Miller]

On the heels of the Pappas deal, the Skipjacks announce a trade with the Wranglers, aquiring SP Pat Jarvis for their 2nd round pick in 1971.


Wranglers, please confirm.

Wranglers confirm this trade...

Jarvis is a 1M player who was drafted in 66

[mac195]

JW now has half my 1970 playoff rotation.