Maple Banned?

[Old Sweater]

Baseball at breaking point over maple bats
By Jeff Passan, Yahoo! Sports
May 9, 2:26 am EDT

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Someone’s going to die at a baseball stadium soon.

Might be a player. Could be an umpire. Possibly even a fan.

It almost was a coach.

The scar on Don Long’s left cheek still puffs around the edges, fresh enough that it looks like a misplaced zipper instead of the mark of someone who lived too hard. Like every scar, this one has a story, and it involves a piece of shattered wood, about two pounds heavy, that tomahawked 30 feet before slicing through his face.

Nate McLouth thought he just missed the sweet spot of the bat. It was April 15, the eighth inning, and the Pittsburgh Pirates were getting pummeled at Dodger Stadium. Long, the Pirates’ hitting coach, milled about the dugout until he heard McLouth hammer Esteban Loaiza’s 0-2 pitch. Long looked up and tracked the ball down the right-field line. He had no idea baseball’s greatest weapon was headed right at him, and that had he been positioned an inch to the left or right, he might not be here to talk about it.


About two or three times a game. players swinging bats made of maple wood end up with kindling in their hands while the barrel – blunt and thick on one end, splintered and sharp on the other – flies every which direction. Pitchers and middle infielders stand in the greatest line of fire and do their best acrobat imitations to avoid the remnants. On occasion, the shard will land in the stands and harm a fan. And sometimes, as it did in the case of Long, it will wind up in the dugout.

“Didn’t see it at all,” Long said. “It just hit me. I backed up. I saw the blood coming out on the card I keep and on my shoes.”

The Pirates’ training staff rushed Long into the clubhouse to stop the bleeding. The bat sliced through the muscle in his cheek, catching nerves in its wake. A piece broke off and lodged under his skin. A doctor needed to remove the stray wood before he could sew 10 stitches.

When McLouth ended up on second base, he wondered why so many people were scurrying around the dugout. He ran to first with three inches of wood in his hands. He couldn’t find the other 30 or so, when it occurred to him: the ruckus was over his bat, the maple that was barely seen in baseball before 2001, when Barry Bonds hit 73 home runs using one. Now, about 50 percent of players use maple.

“They’re great,” McLouth said, “except for that.”

The incidents keep happening, and following Mike Coolbaugh’s death last season when a batted ball struck him in the neck while he was coaching first base in a minor league game, neither Major League Baseball nor the MLB Players Association can afford to wait for another tragedy when it could take preventative measures. Were officials from either party to meet with Long and see his face, they would understand the issue must be resolved immediately.

“When I blow my nose out of this side,” Long said, “I have to look in the mirror and make sure nothing’s hanging there because I can’t really feel what’s happening.

“Could’ve been a lot worse. Could’ve hit me in the eye.”

Long tried to smile. The right side of his mouth perked up. The left side didn’t move.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


In 2005, alarmed by the increasing number of broken bats, baseball gave $109,000 to a man named Jim Sherwood and asked him to compare maple bats with the ash ones that used to be the norm. Sherwood runs the Baseball Research Center at the University of Massachusetts-Lowell, and the conclusion of the study did not jibe with the hundreds of players who swear maple leads to better performance.

“We found that the batted-ball speeds were essentially the same for the two woods,” Sherwood said. “Maple has no advantage in getting a longer hit over an ash bat.”

The study also found something evident to anyone watching baseball: Ash bats crack while maple bats snap.

Even so, something about the maple bats caused a frenzy. Sam Holman, who started the Original Maple Bat company out of Canada to give players an alternative to the softer ash, supplied Bonds with his first maple in 1999. Word spread, and soon Sam Bats, as they’re called, showed up across baseball. Chuck Schupp, the director of professional sales at Hillerich & Bradsby, the parent company for Louisville Slugger, saw the abundance of Sam Bats in clubhouses and urged his company to join the maple fray. More than 20 bat makers now are licensed to sell maple bats for about $65 a pop, compared to $45 for ash bats, and the demand isn’t lessening.

“I feel like they’re harder,” McLouth said. “Whether or not that’s scientifically true, I’m not sure. But psychologically, I feel like they are.”

Players love their bats irrationally. Ichiro Suzuki keeps his in a silver case. Kosuke Fukudome weighs his to the gram. Jeff Cirillo slept with his. Some talk to them, kiss them, massage them. Anything to keep them happy.

So when in 2006 MLB broached the issue of maple bats during the collective-bargaining negotiations, it did not go well. The union wasn’t receptive to a unilateral ban and didn’t budge at the thought of at least imposing specifications to lessen the likelihood of breakage.

MLB scoffed at putting nets in front of the seats closest to the field, as the NHL did after a stray puck struck and killed 13-year-old Brittanie Cecil. The discussions went nowhere quickly, and it ended with them agreeing to table the issue until a later date. Both sides spent the next year focusing on the Mitchell Report, and only after the Long incident did they revisit it.

“We have provisions in the agreement,” union leader Don Fehr said Thursday by phone. “There will be a committee that will be put together and meet on it. We’ll look at it in good faith.”

Said Rob Manfred, MLB’s lead labor counsel, in a statement through a spokesman: “Baseball is aware of the bat issue. We have done scientific research in the area. We brought the issue to the bargaining table in 2006 and we are embarking on a detailed consideration of the issue with the union in the context of the Safety and Health Advisory Committee.”

When that happens, the thickening of the bat handle seems the likeliest compromise. Sherwood said the study showed that as the size of the handle increases, the potential for broken bats decreases. Players might object to thicker handles because they add weight, and every 10th of an ounce counts.

An outright ban is unlikely to muster union support, and it would be a logistical nightmare: Schupp said Hillerich & Bradsby would need at least 18 months to fill the orders of ash bats for all their clients.

Though, as one union source noted, after long struggles the players agreed to add earflaps onto helmets and ban amphetamines. If MLB is insistent enough, and perhaps willing to sacrifice something in return, the players might agree to forgo maple.

“I do not anticipate players will jump up and down and say, ‘You can take our bats away right away,’ ” the union source said. “If that’s backlash, I do expect some, yeah. Players may say, ‘Aren’t there other things you can do first?’ ”

Yes, though sources said MLB, while not sold on an outright ban, will push for one. The day after Long was hit, officials received video of the McLouth at-bat from multiple angles. One particularly gruesome shot came from a field-level camera pointed toward the dugout.

That afternoon, MLB officials contacted the union to set up a meeting to discuss maple bats.



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All last season, Jorge Posada encouraged New York Yankees teammate Doug Mientkiewicz to switch from maple to ash. Mientkiewicz was tired of his bats breaking.

“They blow up constantly,” said Mientkiewicz, a first baseman now with the Pirates.

He had seen his bats shatter and heard stories, like the one where Eric Byrnes, angry after a bad at-bat, slammed his maple into the ground and saw its shrapnel hit catcher Miguel Olivo in the head.

Outspoken voices are beginning to emerge. Pirates manager John Russell and Tampa Bay Rays manager Joe Maddon have called them “dangerous,” and Mientkiewicz said it was “amazing” that one hasn’t struck and injured a player.

“It’s going to take somebody getting severely hurt to think about a change,” Mientkiewicz said. “Anybody who thinks I’m overreacting should go look at our hitting coach’s face. It was spooky. It was really spooky.”

Doctors predict the nerves in Long’s face will regenerate and he’ll be able to smile again. He’s not calling for an outright ban on maple, either, because he understands how particular and superstitious players can be.

Look at McLouth. A 26-year-old who hadn’t finished a season with more than 329 at-bats, he ranks fourth in the National League in slugging percentage and is on target to make his first All-Star appearance.

No one would blame him for not changing his underwear, let alone the tool he uses to get his hits.

“I’m thinking about maybe trying ash again,” said McLouth, sitting in the clubhouse at Nationals Park last week, holding his maple bat, flexing his wrists, taking quarter swings. “I mean, just thinking about it. Because I swear, ever since I broke the bat that day in Dodger Stadium, it seems like, as a team, we’ve broken three or four bats a day.”

That afternoon, against the Nationals, on the third pitch of the game, McLouth’s bat split. The bat boy ran out to retrieve the refuse, returned from the dugout with a new one and handed it to McLouth, who walked back to home plate with his weapon of choice


http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=AtnDfxcxXHVs1iP2HmoaBbkHU84F?slug=jp-maplebats050808&prov=yhoo&type=lgns&print=1

I'm all for MLB banning maple bats after seeing all the shattered bats.

I don't believe the research saying that maple don't help the batted ball, as I don't for PED's and Corked Bats. If they didn't help the player mentally or physically they wouldn't use them.

[StanTheMan]

Nothing will happen until a fan is severely injured. Then there will be a commitee, hearings, studies and then they might be banned at that point.

[NYMets523]

If it's proven to be just as efficient in use and safer when it breaks, then there's no reason to keep using maple. However, it's probably a cost thing.

[Appling]

"Ash bats crack while maple bats snap."
This one sentence seems to say it all.

Baseball was fine for 100 years without bats made of maple (or aluminum).

There is no need now to give hitters more power at the plate -- there are more than enough homeruns to satisfy me. So if the maple bat is just 5% safer (that is, less likely to snap and fly towards a pitcher or coach or fan) it should be banned.

But baseball moves slowly. It will take at least one DEATH or permanent paralysis for MLB to approve such a ban.

[west coast orange and black]

since first used, we have known that when maples break they snap. but it seems that there has been an increase in the number of bats breaking.
why are they breaking at the current rate?

[ipitch]

since first used, we have known that when maples break they snap. but it seems that there has been an increase in the number of bats breaking.
why are they breaking at the current rate?

I don't know if it's true or not, but I've heard announcers say it's because players are using thinner handles these days.

Personally, I think Mariano Rivera's cutter is to blame. :cap:

[SamtheBravesFan]

I don't know if it's true or not, but I've heard announcers say it's because players are using thinner handles these days.

Personally, I think Mariano Rivera's cutter is to blame. :cap:

Yeah, that's what I know. Bat handles are made thinner in an attempt to generate more bat speed. I would think that since everyone is doing it now (who has a thick handle?), that bats appear to be breaking at an increased rate.

[Rockhound]

Bring ash back!!!!

[BenHertz]

I'm still waiting for somebody to make an "I'm an ash man" joke.

[KCGHOST]

They gotta go.

[hellborn]

I was going to say "No" and say that a handle thickness limit should be instituted for maple...but, then I realized that any player could shave down his handle to whatever he wants. You don't want the umps to have to measure each bat that is used in a game.
I don't think that allowing the fiberglass/composite handle wraps would be fair, as they could be influencing the behavior of the bat. I wonder if some kind of loose, "passive" restraint could be devised...something that would restrain the larger broken pieces, but not change the way the bat behaves. A loose wrap glued on top, or maybe some kind of thread matrix across the usual "break area" and glued to the upper handle and lower barrel...???
Well, then the broken pieces might whip around and hit the batter in the back or head...eh, a maple ban might be best. But, then we have to worry about the ash borer, and the effects of a sudden shift back to 100% ash...
:dismay:

I think that BMH indicated that he's seeing something like a 50-50 maple-ash split now, maybe a few more maples?

[rockin500]

theres no good reason to have a maple bat. they just snap way too easily. and they should mandate a minimum thickness of the handle as well.

[cardsfanatic]

I'm not educated on this part of the game so bear with my ignorance here. I usually only enter discussions where I know what I'm talking about. However, I remember my dad talking about a player getting killed when a bat broke and hit him in the neck. I'd assume this was 60's or 70's when this happened. Was that a maple bat?

[west coast orange and black]

the thinner handles might be it.

i know that before bonds hit his 500th homerun*, he would go through an entire season using only 5 or so gamer maple bats.
in 2006, though, bonds broke at least 9 bats at home, and the bats' measurements / particulars had not changed.

*starting with #500, bonds took his homerun bat outta circulation and started his own bat collection

[Old Sweater]

I'm not educated on this part of the game so bear with my ignorance here. I usually only enter discussions where I know what I'm talking about. However, I remember my dad talking about a player getting killed when a bat broke and hit him in the neck. I'd assume this was 60's or 70's when this happened. Was that a maple bat?


This is the only injury like that, I remember since the 50's.


In 1976, Yeager was injured when a piece of Bill Russell's bat shattered and hit him in the neck while in the on-deck circle, piercing his esophagus. He had nine pieces of wood taken out of his neck in 98 minutes of surgery. After the incident, Yeager invented a throat protector that hangs from the catcher's mask. It was soon worn by most catchers around the Majors and other leagues.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Yeager

[spark240]

Of course it's the thinner handles. Maybe maple bats break a little differently, more dangerously, than ash bats. But a broken ash bat can be dangerous too. Thicker-handled bats, of any wood, are much, much harder to break. As I said elsewhere, there have been maximums for bat size for a long time; it's time for some minimums.


I was going to say "No" and say that a handle thickness limit should be instituted for maple...but, then I realized that any player could shave down his handle to whatever he wants. You don't want the umps to have to measure each bat that is used in a game.

Oh come on. That's like saying any player can hollow out and cork his bat. Handle thickness can be handled exactly the same way: institute the rule, and any time a bat does break, that's the time to check the legality. If the player was using an illegal bat, call him out, remove him from the game, and suspend him for X additional games.

If players know this is what will happen, very few will shave the handles down to illegal dimensions.

[Love The Game]

Personally, I think the use of maple bats may be a mental thing. When a maple bat makes contact with the ball, its seems to make a more solid sound than the other bats. This may have led to the increased use of them over the last few years. Maple bats explode when they break where as an ash bat has more of a tendency to splinter and therefore not be sprayed all over the diamond. I have seen an episode of SportsCenter where they said there was a study done as to which type of wooden bat would hit a ball the farthest, and no difference was found between types.

[hellborn]

..
Oh come on. That's like saying any player can hollow out and cork his bat. Handle thickness can be handled exactly the same way: institute the rule, and any time a bat does break, that's the time to check the legality. If the player was using an illegal bat, call him out, remove him from the game, and suspend him for X additional games.

If players know this is what will happen, very few will shave the handles down to illegal dimensions.

"Oh come on" yourself...the ump is supposed to measure every bat that breaks to 1/64 of an inch or whatever and make a spot call on a guy getting a several game suspension?!?!? Yeah, let's make the games last 4 hours instead of 3, and also sneak that one by the player's union.
:think:

[ipitch]

Personally, I think the use of maple bats may be a mental thing. When a maple bat makes contact with the ball, its seems to make a more solid sound than the other bats. This may have led to the increased use of them over the last few years. Maple bats explode when they break where as an ash bat has more of a tendency to splinter and therefore not be sprayed all over the diamond. I have seen an episode of SportsCenter where they said there was a study done as to which type of wooden bat would hit a ball the farthest, and no difference was found between types.

If all of the bats looked, felt, and sounded the same, I bet most players couldn't tell the difference in performance between a maple bat, an ash bat, and a corked bat.

[BMH]

Most studies have found Ash and Maple to perform very close together.

One of the big reasons for a lot of players going to Maple was the flaking in the barrels of Ash bats. Yes, Ash doesn't explode like Maple but the hard and soft grain come apart after repeated abuse. With Maple you don't have this problem. Most players were complaining their Ash bats weren't surviving BP so they switched.

Currently we are drying our wood differently than most other companies. We do this to put a little more flex into the handles of the Maple bats. This flex absorbs some of the energy transferred from the ball to the bat and hopefully helps prevent it from breaking as easy in the handle. The side effect is some players say our bats are soft.That is how we lost great players like Pujols, Upton, Howard and a few others. But I feel the gain we get in bats lasting longer outweighs some of the benefits of vacuum drying our wood. Not to say our bats don't break because I have seen many but hopefully not as soon as they could have.

In 2007 MLB instituted new rules for maximum and minimum handle thickness and weight ratio of wooden bats. The new rule for handles are bats may not be smaller than .845in diameter in the handle. This rule already needs to be revised since we currently don't make a handle smaller than .865 for fear of extreme breakage. The new weight ratio is -3.5oz, this probably needs to be dropped to -3oz or -2.5oz. A player can currently still order a 35in/31.5oz R161 which is made from basically balsa wood because the Maple you have to use to make that is extremely poor quality in terms of density.

I honestly don't know what is going to happen, I know MLB has done numerous studies but there are two obstacles to any worth while changes. First is the player's union, many players won't want to give up their Maple bats. Second, is the Emerald Ash Borer, a small insect that came from China on shipping crates and is currently destroying the Ash population in Michigan and Ohio. There are some reports it is already in Pennsylvania where most companies currently get their wood. Maybe another species of wood will have to be found...

[west coast orange and black]

spark240: Of course it's the thinner handles.

it might also be the quality of the wood.
maybe the maple bat producers can not supply first-rate product to meet the demand.

[SamtheBravesFan]

spark240: Of course it's the thinner handles.

it might also be the quality of the wood.
maybe the maple bat producers can not supply first-rate product to meet the demand.

Then the problem is in the wood itself. The sheer majority of bats are made by programmed machines, so they should all be perfect custom to what the player wants.

[spark240]

"Oh come on" yourself...the ump is supposed to measure every bat that breaks to 1/64 of an inch or whatever and make a spot call on a guy getting a several game suspension?!?!? Yeah, let's make the games last 4 hours instead of 3, and also sneak that one by the player's union.

Uh, no. Just add a small standard, fixed set of calipers to the HP ump's bag. The width of the calipers is a fraction smaller than the minimum bat handle diameter. When a bat breaks, the ump puts the handle against the calipers. If the bat fits inside, it is illegal; otherwise, no problem. Total elapsed time per bat-check (occurring only after a bat breaks during a game): five to ten seconds. Moreover, since the effect of the rule itself will be to eliminate the thinnest of bat handles, far fewer bats will be breaking. We will be saving most of time now spent on picking the pieces up off the field. If anything, games will be a couple minutes faster.

Oh, and the ump on the field is only responsible for calling the batter out and removing him from the game, exactly as if he found sandpaper in the pitcher's glove.

[spark240]

In 2007 MLB instituted new rules for maximum and minimum handle thickness and weight ratio of wooden bats. The new rule for handles are bats may not be smaller than .845in diameter in the handle.

Really? Somehow I missed this.

In any event, 0.845" is absurdly thin. The minimum should have been imposed at 1" and been incrementally increased, over successive seasons, from there.


Maybe another species of wood will have to be found...

How's the hick'ry supply?

[BMH]

MLB sends out a Memorandum on Bat Regulations and Approved Suppliers every year. The new rules are in there. The problem with stating a mandatory handle thickness is players will still have the ability to shave them down if they desire. Geoff Jenkins shaves his C243's all the time.

As for Hickory, well if everyone wants to swing a C271 34/33 then we can make them all day long out of Hickory. The weight distribution in cut hickory is toward the heavy side. That's why we quit making bats out it years ago.

[cardsfanatic]

This is the only injury like that, I remember since the 50's.

That's the injury. So, am I right to assume that was an ash bat? If so, they're not anymore safe than maple.

[MarkEllisFTW]

I prematurely voted against banning maple bats, but after reading about the dangers I would agree that they should be banned. Sorry for messing up the poll a little bit.

[Seattle1]

Bring ash back!!!!

Well, if they get rid of maple to use for bats, they might want to think of some other species to use, because before too long ash trees might be a thing of the past:

Emerald Ash Borer (http://www.emeraldashborer.info)
Emerald ash borer (Agrilus planipennis Fairmaire) is an exotic beetle that was discovered in southeastern Michigan near Detroit in the summer of 2002. The adult beetles nibble on ash foliage but cause little damage. The larvae (the immature stage) feed on the inner bark of ash trees, disrupting the tree's ability to transport water and nutrients. Emerald ash borer probably arrived in the United States on solid wood packing material carried in cargo ships or airplanes originating in its native Asia.

Emerald ash borer is also established in Windsor, Ontario, was found in Ohio in 2003, northern Indiana in 2004, northern Illinois and Maryland in 2006, western Pennsylvania and West Virginia in 2007. Since its discovery, Emerald ash borer has killed more than 30 million ash trees in southeastern Michigan alone, with tens of millions more lost in Ohio and Indiana. Most of the devastation is in southeastern Michigan.

[wood4her]

Nothing will happen until a fan is severely injured. Then there will be a commitee, hearings, studies and then they might be banned at that point.


The person mentioned who was killed, was killed by the ball. Was it hit by a menacing and degenerate maple bat, or was it hit by a sweet and innocent ash bat? Through time I have little doubt that baseballs have injured far more players, coaches, and fans than baseball bats, whether ash or maple. Of the two injuries mentioned in this thread that were caused by baseball bats, one was caused by an ash bat and one was caused by a maple bat.

Sounds like you cannot rule out killing or maiming players, coaches, and fans by banning maple bats. Switching to Major League Whiffleball, however, would do the trick.

I suspect there is a different agenda working here. Follow the money back to a big corporation that makes baseball bats with machinery that predates maple.

[Old Sweater]

First came Pittsburgh Pirates hitting coach Don Long getting sliced along the cheek with the splintered end of a bat that snapped at the handle. Ten days later, on April 25, sitting four rows behind the visitor’s dugout at Dodger Stadium where Long was hit, Rhodes took the barrel end of a flying bat to the left side of her jaw.

What’s next? A fan or player dying?


At the recent owners’ meetings, commissioner Bud Selig highlighted maple bats as one of the game’s most pressing issues. A decade ago, they were barely in baseball. Since Barry Bonds’ record-breaking season, though, more than 50 percent of players have gone from the traditional ash bats to maple, which the converts claim feel harder.

The bat blew up, and Rhodes’ eyes followed the ball, which landed in center field for a single. Meanwhile, the bat tomahawked toward her.

When Rhodes recovered consciousness, she kept asking Banks what had happened, the concussion robbing her short-term memory.

“All I remember is feeling this complete slam against my face and pain,” Rhodes says. “You know when you’re in such shock, you think, ‘What the hell happened?’ I figured I got hit by a ball. I was very conscious of one flying and thought we aren’t in a very safe area. I don’t know if I was looking at the ball. I can’t remember anything except for the smash and total memory loss.”


http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=AvxpiUSbKz4LqDh1jUn6lNoRvLYF?slug=jp-bats052908&prov=yhoo&type=lgns


Guess MLB is waiting for the grim reaper to enforce a ban of maple bats. Eyes do tend to follow a batted ball and the exploding bat has to be quite the distraction for infielders.

[SHOELESSJOE3]

I don't know if it's true or not, but I've heard announcers say it's because players are using thinner handles these days.

Personally, I think Mariano Rivera's cutter is to blame. :cap:

I think Mariano should be getting some royalty pay back from the bat people. How many bats has this guy broken. A few years ago he came in to pitch the ninth inning and broke 5 bats in that one inning, cutter was working fine that night.

[Seattle1]

Oh my gosh what happened to that individual?

[hellborn]

A home plate umpire was hurt last night by a piece from a shattered maple bat...just had a small cut, but it looked ugly when he took his mask off and there was blood dripping down one side of his face.
Right or wrong, I think that it is extremely likely that there will be some action on this topic this season. I highly doubt that maple will be abruptly banned, but predict there will an increase in the minimum handle thickness for at least maple bats, maybe for any bat type.
When it becomes apparent that this is very difficult to actually enforce, I think that maple will be eased out of the majors. If the emerald ash borer becomes as big a problem in the US as many people suspect, there's going to be a mad rush to find a new wood species to use...or, we're going to see appropriately "dead" composites sometime in the next decade or so.

[Honus Wagner Rules]

Some insight from Curtis Granderson at ESPN.com about maple bats.



Bat chat: Maple vs. ash

Tuesday, June 24, 2008

There has been a lot of talk recently in the baseball world about the dangers of maple bats. Lately, maple bats have been breaking in large numbers. The issue isn't that they are breaking, it's the fact that when they break, large dangerous pieces fly from the bat that could not only hit players or coaches, but possibly land in the stands and hit fans.

Baseball has been trying to come up with different ideas to keep fans safe. Players feel that if we are on the field and can move out of the way of batted balls, we should be able to move out of the way of flying bats -- or we shouldn't be on the field. (Of course, anything is possible). The major concern is with fans. There usually is very little room to escape from flying objects coming into the stands.

One suggestion is to extend the netting from the home plate area down the first- and third-base lines. Some feel that if baseball does this it will take away from the fan experience of the game, the interaction with the players and the closeness to the field. You could argue that if that is the case, then why are the most expensive seats the ones right behind home plate with a net in front of them? Those seats, at most games that I have played in, are usually sold out, and I haven't heard any of those fans complaining about the net right in front of them.

I've been asked what kind of bats I use (maple), and when and why I chose to start using them. I first started using maple bats in 2004 just to try them out to see if there was a difference. I really like maple bats over ash bats mainly because they tend to last a lot longer. This year, I am on my second batting practice bat since spring training. If I were using ash, even if I would tape my bat or bone it (apply pressure using something hard like a sink or an actual bone to eliminate the air and space between the grains to make it harder), it would still break or splinter much quicker than maple.

Some people say, "Well you guys get as many bats as you want!" And we do get a lot of bats, but each bat is slightly different in weight (some have more weight near the barrel, others more in the handle). So once we find a bat that we like, we want to use it until it breaks.

If a rule were put in place to ban maple bats, I don't think players would be extremely upset, but it would force a lot of them to change their bats and their bat companies. Players choose bat companies based on how quickly they get their bats and how accurate their orders are. I've been using an A-bat since 2004, and have been happy with everything they have done, but I have only swung their maple bats. The only ash bats I've ever swung were Louisville Slugger in the minor leagues. So if maple bats are banned, I'm not sure what company I would try.

[Old Sweater]

A home plate umpire was hurt last night by a piece from a shattered maple bat...just had a small cut, but it looked ugly when he took his mask off and there was blood dripping down one side of his face.
Right or wrong, I think that it is extremely likely that there will be some action on this topic this season. I highly doubt that maple will be abruptly banned, but predict there will an increase in the minimum handle thickness for at least maple bats, maybe for any bat type.
When it becomes apparent that this is very difficult to actually enforce, I think that maple will be eased out of the majors. If the emerald ash borer becomes as big a problem in the US as many people suspect, there's going to be a mad rush to find a new wood species to use...or, we're going to see appropriately "dead" composites sometime in the next decade or so.


MLB needs to do something about it before some player or fan gets harpooned and dies right at the park and sending thousands to counseling. Besides that it delayed my game last night...:)



Umpire Brian O’Nora left Tuesday’s game between the Kansas City Royals and Colorado Rockies after he was hit with a piece of a broken maple bat during the second inning.

As Miguel Olivo grounded out to short, his bat split upon contact - with a piece lacerating the forehead of O’Nora.

O’Nora, who quickly rushed to the Royals dugout, was replaced by Paul Nauert behind the plate. The game was delayed 13 minutes and O’Nora was taken to a hospital to be further evaluated.

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=txumpireonora&prov=st&type=lgns

With a ump getting hurt it may start the ball rolling faster.

[stejay]

NO. A batter deserves to use whatever he uses to bat with. Should the ball be banned, or replaced with foam, because the could hurt someone? No. Why should this be any different.

[spark240]

If maple is banned as a bat wood, but players are allowed to continue using tiny whip-handled ash bats, it will be only a matter of time before there is a grievous injury resulting from a broken ash bat.

Then what are you going to do?

[spark240]

I highly doubt that maple will be abruptly banned, but predict there will an increase in the minimum handle thickness for at least maple bats, maybe for any bat type.
When it becomes apparent that this is very difficult to actually enforce, I think that maple will be eased out of the majors.

Minimum thickness is very easy to enforce.

[Old Sweater]

Surprised at the 32-20 vote on this after seeing the shrapnel flying around for years now with fans and infielders constantly having to dodge them. That ain't baseball at this % that it is happening.

[Wade8813]

NO. A batter deserves to use whatever he uses to bat with. Should the ball be banned, or replaced with foam, because the could hurt someone? No. Why should this be any different. A batted ball is an inherent part of the game. However, bats with thinner handles, are NOT. And neither is maple.

[abolishthedh]

How's the hick'ry supply?

In the end, I have always trusted the true genius of the designers of our beloved game. Folks, if there were better and safer alternatives for the sake of new bats, then such alternatives would have been used by Ed Delahanty, Nap Lajoie and the rest of that era. The use of ash was chosen because they found hickory too heavy and maple too brittle. The use of still other types of wood was impractical: mahogany was too heavy and too hard to find.

Its time that MLB pursue this in the name of the other bat issue which has been at hand for ages: aluminum bats. I would think that bat-makers would have the expertise to create safe and affordable composite bats which perform. MLB must be aware that such things are possible, so why don't they get on with the research? A good composite wood bat which sounds like wood (at least reasonably close to it), performs well for the players, and leaves everyone safe on the field and in the stands.

We've discussed this issue before in the name of aluminum. Please don't tell me that the issue is money. If MLB really believes that, how will the cost of R+D compare with the cost of lawsuits and the cost of bad publicity? I'm as serious as a heart attack on this matter, and I would hope MLB would wake up to it.

[hellborn]

Hickory was actually fairly common when Delahanty and Lajoie played...not sure if they used it, but it was a popular wood when heavy bats were acceptable, and even desired. I have no idea how survivable it would be with the skinny handles that are popular now, but I'm sure most players would hate the weight.
I think it's quite possible that the future is some kind of carbon fiber based bat with rigidly controlled performance characteristics intended to not exceed those of wood and with a internal restraint of some kind to keep the barrel from flying if it snaps off. Sounds crazy, but hockey players use carbon now.

[Seattle1]

I wonder if oak would work.

[Old Sweater]

ash over oak

[brewcrew82]

NO. A batter deserves to use whatever he uses to bat with. Should the ball be banned, or replaced with foam, because the could hurt someone? No. Why should this be any different.

A hard ball is a part of the game. Always has been and always will be, an exploding bat is another issue. It's alot more dangerous and it's preventable.

[brewcrew82]

Its time that MLB pursue this in the name of the other bat issue which has been at hand for ages: aluminum bats. I would think that bat-makers would have the expertise to create safe and affordable composite bats which perform. MLB must be aware that such things are possible, so why don't they get on with the research? A good composite wood bat which sounds like wood (at least reasonably close to it), performs well for the players, and leaves everyone safe on the field and in the stands.

I have been thinking this for a while. If they can create a bat made from a material that has the same "bounce" at the sweet spot as a wooden bat whilst also being "dead" at the handle.
As you mentioned they would need to make sure the bat doesn't make that horrible "ping" noise. :ughh

[sandlot]

Most studies have found Ash and Maple to perform very close together.

One of the big reasons for a lot of players going to Maple was the flaking in the barrels of Ash bats. Yes, Ash doesn't explode like Maple but the hard and soft grain come apart after repeated abuse. With Maple you don't have this problem. Most players were complaining their Ash bats weren't surviving BP so they switched.

Currently we are drying our wood differently than most other companies. We do this to put a little more flex into the handles of the Maple bats. This flex absorbs some of the energy transferred from the ball to the bat and hopefully helps prevent it from breaking as easy in the handle. The side effect is some players say our bats are soft.That is how we lost great players like Pujols, Upton, Howard and a few others. But I feel the gain we get in bats lasting longer outweighs some of the benefits of vacuum drying our wood. Not to say our bats don't break because I have seen many but hopefully not as soon as they could have.

In 2007 MLB instituted new rules for maximum and minimum handle thickness and weight ratio of wooden bats. The new rule for handles are bats may not be smaller than .845in diameter in the handle. This rule already needs to be revised since we currently don't make a handle smaller than .865 for fear of extreme breakage. The new weight ratio is -3.5oz, this probably needs to be dropped to -3oz or -2.5oz. A player can currently still order a 35in/31.5oz R161 which is made from basically balsa wood because the Maple you have to use to make that is extremely poor quality in terms of density.

I honestly don't know what is going to happen, I know MLB has done numerous studies but there are two obstacles to any worth while changes. First is the player's union, many players won't want to give up their Maple bats. Second, is the Emerald Ash Borer, a small insect that came from China on shipping crates and is currently destroying the Ash population in Michigan and Ohio. There are some reports it is already in Pennsylvania where most companies currently get their wood. Maybe another species of wood will have to be found...I have been wondering why Bonds, whom I've watched more than probably any other player, rarely breaks his bats. If he breaks nine in a season, that's nothing given the number of times he makes contact over that period. I think BMH has hit on it with both the diameter point and, especially, the quality of the maple. Trees are as different as any other living thing, and anybody who works with wood -- as BMH can attest, I'm sure -- knows that the difference between one piece and the next can be huge. I also incline toward the handle being the culprit because of photos showing bats bending during a swing, even where there has been no contact made. It's just the strength and quickness of the batters placing stress on the handle as force is applied to move the bat head around. If contact occurs with a ball coming in the other direction, the opposing forces being applied to the handle at its thinnest point must be considerable. So I'm not sure banning all maple is the answer, although banning some maple might be. The same could be said of ash. What's needed, I think, is to collect all the shattered bats and study them carefully for similarities in composition, density, origin, drying techniques, manufacturer, weight and, of course, diameter. They should also be checked to see if there are signs that the bat has been whittled down by someone subsequent to its manufacture. Longer term, I'm willing to bet that one day not far off we will see composition bats, maybe bamboo if they can solve the handle issue, being used alongside the traditional one-piece bat. When the performace charteristics can be assured to be identical, for all intents and purposes, the argument against them goes away. Just my two cents.

[hellborn]

I have been thinking this for a while. If they can create a bat made from a material that has the same "bounce" at the sweet spot as a wooden bat whilst also being "dead" at the handle.
As you mentioned they would need to make sure the bat doesn't make that horrible "ping" noise. :ughh

I just started using a composite softball bat that "cracks" something on the order of a wood bat. Louisville Slugger Voltage...got it for about 1/2 price at Sports Authority. I think they haven't been selling well because the colors are not very manly (yellow and bright red), but I've been loving it...much bigger sweet spot than the Mizuno Crush 2 I was using before. The Crush also had made a hollow thud when striking the ball, kind of like hitting with a PVC pipe.
I don't get quite the resounding crack that a good wood bat will make, but it's a lot better than "ping", "thud", or "clunk".
:applaud:

[stejay]

A hard ball is a part of the game. Always has been and always will be, an exploding bat is another issue. It's alot more dangerous and it's preventable.

I wasnt saying it should happen. The balls that is. But I have used Maple all my baseball life, as have everyone I know. No problems have risen. The only reason this is happening is because people are getting the fakes. They aere not made as good as quality ones, and are less dangerous.

[chokes14]

did anyone see giambi's bat get shattered today? and correct me if im wrong but doesn't he swing ash?
and banning maple will only create a shortage in bats. I play in a wood bat junior college league and everyone on our team used maple and we might have seen 3 bats explode all year. sure they break but they werent exploding

[Old Sweater]

I don't know if it was maple or ash, but a spear wound up in short left field today in the Rockies/Tigers game.

[redlegsfan21]

CINCINNATI -- Adam Dunn has had it with his maple bats, and sentenced them to a lifetime of inactivity.
"I'm done," the Reds left fielder said on Tuesday. "I'm tired of them breaking all the time."

Bats made from maple wood have been a controversial topic in Major League Baseball this season. When maple bats break, they often shatter and send jagged pieces of wood in multiple directions that put people in danger. There has been a noticeable increase in bat explosions this season.

Broken maple bats have severely injured an umpire, a coach and at least one fan in 2008. The MLB and the Players' Association are currently evaluating the safety implications of maple bats before considering a course of action.

Dunn's reason behind the switch is mostly about product performance, but safety also figured into the equation.

"Maple is good, but whenever you have a hairline [break] and can't even see it and hit the ball good, and you know you hit it good, your bat explodes," Dunn said. "And it's a soft liner to second base and the pitcher is ducking. ... I don't want one of my bats sticking somebody in the head."

A lot of players made the switch to maple in recent years because they were considered more durable than ash, which chip and crack easier. Dunn and Ken Griffey Jr. both switched to maple bats in 2005.

"This year, it seems a whole lot different," Dunn said.

Griffey had been using an ash bat in batting practice lately and was using an ash bat in Monday night's game, when he hit a walk-off two-run home run to beat the Pirates.

"That was the first at-bat I used it," Griffey said. "Earlier, I went in the cage before the game and swung it 20-30 times said, 'All right, this works.'"

Infielder Jeff Keppinger remains a user of maple bats and had no plans to use another product.

"The only reason why I use maple is because ash bats flake," Keppinger said. "I'm the type of guy where once I get a bat, I use the same bat for BP and the game. Once it breaks, then I get a new one. That's the thing with ash -- if it starts to break, you have to get a new one when you really don't want to. That's why I use maple. I don't use it for any other reason. They make bats the same size and same weight."

Dunn destroyed a maple bat during his final plate appearance of Friday's game at Cleveland. He popped up to the shortstop in the eighth inning, but thought it would be a better outcome at contact.

"The one I hit on the screws was in Cleveland against C.C. [Sabathia]," Dunn recalled. "I hit it right on the barrel. If it's cracked on the inside -- when you hit it, it explodes."

A bat representative visited Dunn in the Reds' clubhouse Tuesday. His new shipment of ash bats were expected to arrive on Wednesday or Thursday.

Mark Sheldon is a reporter for MLB.com. This story was not subject to the approval of Major League Baseball or its clubs.

http://cincinnati.reds.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20080701&content_id=3042052&vkey=news_cin&fext=.jsp&c_id=cin

[west coast orange and black]

sandlot: What's needed, I think, is to collect all the shattered bats and study them carefully for similarities in composition, density, origin, drying techniques, manufacturer, weight and, of course, diameter. They should also be checked to see if there are signs that the bat has been whittled down by someone subsequent to its manufacture.

an excellant starting point, sandlot.

at first i was convinced that the thin(ned) handles were the culprit, but now i am leaning towards wood quality and the complete process to make a bat.

mlb had talks a week or two ago to discuss maple bats.
does anyone know how that went?

[Mattingly]

since first used, we have known that when maples break they snap. but it seems that there has been an increase in the number of bats breaking.
why are they breaking at the current rate?
How would one of your favorite players have done without the maple bats?

Other than you-know-who, which other players have turned from ash to maple?

[west coast orange and black]

^^
what evidence do you have that maple bats have improved player perfomance, or have not improved it?

whichever way you wanna go with that one, about half of the players currently use maple.

[Iron Peach]

I wonder what relation the increase of broken bats this year has to the decrease of offence compared to last year...

I really have no information on this at all, but I don't think it's in the relm of impossibility that they could be related...

[west coast orange and black]

wcoab: mlb had talks a week or two ago to discuss maple bats.
does anyone know how that went?

update: the conference calls amounted to lip service by selig & co.

[SHOELESSJOE3]

I have no idea what it will be about, may be interesting maybe not. Today Saturday at 5:00 or 5:30 eastern time, the Weather Channel has a program dealing with the making of baseball bats. The promo showed a Babe Ruth bat and then a scene with some trees. They may discuss different types of wood and the making of bats.