Champions Plaza at U.S. Cellular Field [Archive]

hsnterprize

05-06-2008, 06:12 PM

In mid-April, the White Sox unveiled a special memento to commemorate their championship season of 2005. That was a very special year for us White Sox fans...for not only did the White Sox their first World Series title in 88 years, but it was also the entire city of Chicago's first baseball championship in 88 years. We Sox fans felt vindicated because in spite of all the popularity of the Cubs with their ballpark, sold-out crowds, neighborhood bars and all the negative attention the Sox received over the years, it felt great when nearly 2 million fans lined Chicago streets to honor the World Champs.

This plaza is a diamond-shaped brick display with a beautiful statue as its centerpiece. The statue was designed by the same designers who made the famous Michael Jordan statue outside the United Center, and the soldier memorials outside Soldier Field. There are images lazer-etched into the granite material as well as sculptures either on the front, top, and back of the sculture.

I'll put in a few pictures at a time in each post with a brief description...

Also...I realize some of you may not be able to view these pictures. They are a good size, and it does take them a while to load depending on your PC. If you're having a problem seeing the pictures, then click here, (http://s281.photobucket.com/albums/kk204/hsnterprize/?albumview=slideshow) and you should be able to see a Photobucket slideshow of the pics.

http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk204/hsnterprize/041908_10451.jpg
This is the centerpiece of "Championship Moments", the name of the monument. You'll notice the bricks outside the plaque with names on them. Fans paid to have personalized bricks placed throughout the plaza. The white bricks are for player names and other dignitaries...the red bricks are from fans. They're all over the monument, with the names of players and others involved in the 2005 World Series winning team.

http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk204/hsnterprize/041908_10452.jpg
The title plaque for the monument.

http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk204/hsnterprize/041908_10463.jpg
Team owner Jerry Reinsdorf and his family.

http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk204/hsnterprize/041908_10501.jpg
A "Thank You" plaque to everyone involved with this monument.

http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk204/hsnterprize/041908_10502.jpg
Former GM Eddie Einhorn and his family. He and Reinsdorf came to the team in the early 80's. They led the team to a 1983 A.L. West Division title, which was the first baseball championship of any kind for Chicago since the Sox won the A.L. pennant in 1959.

Yoda

05-06-2008, 06:22 PM

hsnterprize

05-06-2008, 06:36 PM

More pics...
http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk204/hsnterprize/NellieFoxCell.jpg
The bricks on the ground form the shape of a baseball diamond, and along the "1st and 3rd baselines" are plaques honoring the Sox retired numbers. Here's Nellie Fox's #2. He was a part of the great double-play combination that helped the Sox win the 1959 A.L. pennant.

http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk204/hsnterprize/BainesCell.jpg
White Sox star of the 70's and 80's...one of my favorite all-time players, Harold Baines. Incidentally, he'll be honored with a statue along the outfield concourse later this season.

http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk204/hsnterprize/041908_10562.jpg
Now batting, #4, Luke Appling.

http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk204/hsnterprize/MinosoCell.jpg
He's to the White Sox what Ernie Banks is to the Cubs. Ladies and gentlemen, the only player to play professional baseball for 6, count 'em...SIX DECADES, #9...Minnie Minoso!!!!!

http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk204/hsnterprize/AparicioCell2.jpg
Perhaps one of the greatest shortstops in all of baseball. He was a part of the great middle infield of the 1959 "Go-Go Sox", and he's an inspiration for many of today's Latino players...#11...Luis Aparicio.

http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk204/hsnterprize/041908_10551.jpg
One of the greatest pitchers of all time in a White Sox uniform...the ace of the 1959 A.L. pennant winners, #19...Billy Pierce!!!!!

http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk204/hsnterprize/041908_10543.jpg
One of Jerry Reinsdorf's first big moves that led to the White Sox winning the 1983 A.L. West Division title, and a HUGE fan favorite in Chicago as well as Boston, #72...Carlton Fisk.

http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk204/hsnterprize/041908_10544.jpg
A pioneer in the baseball and social world...the first black man to play in Major League Baseball...his #42 deservedly retired throughout baseball...Jackie Robinson.

There's one more retired number the Sox have that I couldn't get a picture for. That's for #16...Ted Lyons. He was a former player and manager for the White Sox, and was inducted into the Baseball Hall of Fame in 1955.

Kentucky Bomber

05-06-2008, 06:37 PM

hsnterprize

05-06-2008, 06:38 PM

It looks horrible. If it didn't have the glove and trophy sticking out of the top like that it'd be ok.

But with that it looks positively ridiculous. It looks like a random hand just glued on the top.You'd have to look really closely to see that hand on the top right is A.J. Pierzynski's arm. It's connected to a graven image in the granite of A.J. celebrating with teammates after the last out of game 4. You can see the Ozzie image better with the World Series trophy on the top left.

hsnterprize

05-06-2008, 06:41 PM

Post deleted

Yoda

05-06-2008, 06:41 PM

I just don't know what to make of the thing. I understand the joy of the Sox and their fans in winning the Series for the first time in 87 years or so. But frankly, erecting something of that size tells me that they don't expect to win it again for another 87 years. If they win this year are they going to put up another gigantic statue?

If they did in the Bronx the statues would reach to the Westchester County line.

Exactly, and their recent choices for players tell me they won't get one for another 80 years.

Basically it was a big scam to get everyone to buy these little bricks.

You'd have to look really closely to see that hand on the top right is A.J. Pierzynski's arm. It's connected to a graven image in the granite of A.J. celebrating with teammates after the last out of game 4. You can see the Ozzie image better with the World Series trophy on the top left.

I know, but you should have to squint at a giant granite statue to see what it is.

Yoda

05-06-2008, 06:42 PM

The thing I do like are the little posts for the retired numbers.

Yoda

05-06-2008, 06:47 PM

http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk204/hsnterprize/041908_10551.jpg
The other half of that great double-play combination that led the Sox to the 1959 American League pennant, #19...Billy Pierce.

[/FONT][/color]

Are you off your rocker?

Nellie Fox played 2nd!

Pierce was a pitcher!

http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z70/Chips347/1184040522276lb8.jpg

hsnterprize

05-06-2008, 06:51 PM

Here are the "bases" that make up the "diamond shape" of the brick outline...

http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk204/hsnterprize/041908_10431.jpg
Home plate...speaks for itself.

http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk204/hsnterprize/041908_10591.jpg
This "base" lists the Sox' Division Championship years.

http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk204/hsnterprize/041908_10582.jpg
The American League pennant winning seasons.

http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk204/hsnterprize/041908_10581.jpg
The World Series winning seasons. Obviously, we're not world beaters...but it's nice to win one (or at least to do it before the Cubs do).

You'll notice around those "bases" there are white bricks making the "baselines" that have Sox' historic moments on them. There's everything from the early years of the team, to "Disco Demolition Night", to Reinsdorf buying the team, and other great and infamous moments in team history. It's a really neat team history lesson for fans.

hsnterprize

05-06-2008, 06:53 PM

Are you off your rocker?

Nellie Fox played 2nd!

Pierce was a pitcher!

http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z70/Chips347/1184040522276lb8.jpg

http://i2.bebo.com/023b/8/mediuml/2007/07/18/21/4428327318a5015693358ml.jpg

Read the shirt. Thanks for correcting me. I'm making the changes now.

Yoda

05-06-2008, 06:56 PM

You made up for it 100% by using a Faarooq image

hsnterprize

05-06-2008, 07:26 PM

Throughout the brick layout, you'll see white bricks with Sox logos.

http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk204/hsnterprize/041908_10542.jpg

http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk204/hsnterprize/041908_10541.jpg

http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk204/hsnterprize/041908_10531.jpg

http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk204/hsnterprize/041908_10493.jpg

http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk204/hsnterprize/041908_10494.jpg

http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk204/hsnterprize/041908_10492.jpg

http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk204/hsnterprize/041908_10491.jpg

Obviously, the surrounding bricks around the logos are from fans. They paid to have personalized bricks be a part of this monument. Many of the messages are very touching. Most are about the 2005 season, while others are about being Sox fans in general. The Sox are still taking orders from fans to add to the layout. Overall, this layout looks very nice...and there's more to come.

hsnterprize

05-06-2008, 08:08 PM

Here are parts of the main centerpiece itself. Along with these scultures, there are images graven into the granite. In my opinion, it's a pretty neat combination.

http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk204/hsnterprize/041908_10472.jpg
A graven image of Ozzie Guillen holding a sculted World Series trophy, and a sculture of Juan Uribe's "into the crowd" catch near the end of game 4.

http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk204/hsnterprize/041908_10464.jpg
Paul Konerko hitting one of the most famous homers in White Sox history...a grand slam that gave the Sox a 6-4 lead during game 2. The Houston Astros tied the game late, but Scott Podsednik's walk-off homer in the bottom of the 9th gave the Sox a 7-6 win, and a 2-0 series lead. Incidentally, the bat Scott used to hit that homer is now in Coopertown, and the seats where the Konerko and Podsednik homers landed are still in the ballpark. When the Sox changed the seats from Brooklyn Dodger blue to green, those 2 seats remained.

http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk204/hsnterprize/041908_10471.jpg
Joe Crede hitting a solo homer during the early innings of game 2 of the series.

http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk204/hsnterprize/041908_10481.jpg
I know it's hard to tell from this picture, but that's A.J. Pierzynski's arm sticking out of a graven image on the granite when he and his teammates celebrated after game 4's final out.

http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk204/hsnterprize/041908_10503.jpg
Orlando Hernandez pointing after striking out Johnny Damon to end a late-game Boston Red SOx threat in game 3 of their A.L. Division Series. Pitcher Damaso Marte has walked the bases loaded late in that game, and Hernandez came in to pitch what many White Sox fans consider the greatest inning in team history. With no one out, Hernandez would induce Jason Varitek to foul out, Tony Graffanino to pop out to short, and Johnny Damon to strike out to end a potentially game-changing Red Sox threat. The White Sox would win game 3 of that series 5-3, and win the series 3 games to none.

http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk204/hsnterprize/BlumCell.jpg

Geoff Blum hit a homer in the 14th inning of game 3 of the series. That homer broke a 5-5 tie, and led to a 7-5 Sox win. Game 3 of the '05 series was and is the longest World Series game timewise in history, lasting 5 hours and 41 minutes.

http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk204/hsnterprize/041908_10521.jpg

Another profile of Juan Uribe's catch in the 9th inning dive-into-the-stands catch near the end of game 4. Ironically, we Sox fans were laughing about how Uribe was able to catch this ball while Moises Alou failed to catch the infamous "Bartman Ball".

hsnterprize

05-06-2008, 08:18 PM

Here are a couple of famous bricks in the main part of the sculpture...

http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk204/hsnterprize/041908_10532.jpg
Sox fan Alex Snelius donates $100 to White Sox Charities for every home run the team hits. Here's a link to his story, (http://www.chicagomag.com/Chicago-Magazine/April-2007/Money-in-Chicago-2007/The-18-million-Dollar-Headache/) and those here in Chicago can get a better understanding on why Alex donates like he does.

http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk204/hsnterprize/041908_10461.jpg
"Hizzoner, da Mare", Richard J. Daley. He's the father of current Chicago Mayor, Richard M. Daley. When the Sox won the '59 pennant, he allowed air raid sirens to go off to celebrate the win. A lot of people got scared since it was during the Cold War, and folks first thought we were being attacked.

http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk204/hsnterprize/041908_10462.jpg"Hizzoner, da Mare, part II", Richard M. Daley. He was a lot more happier when the Sox won their championship than when the Cubs were in their pennant run in 2003. Even though he's the Mayor of all of Chicago, Mayor Daley is a White Sox fan. The old Daley family home is only a few blocks west of the ballpark.

Okay...that's it. I know there's a lot of pictures here, but I hope you like this presentation. If you're ever in the Chicago area, and want to get a good taste of local baseball history, go to the home plate gate outside U.S. Cellular Field. You'll get not only a taste of Sox Pride, but a great lesson about the history of a great franchise.

GO SOX!!!!!!

Yoda

05-06-2008, 08:35 PM

Wow, the "U" in Ursala is already chipped off.

This statue is a load of something else.

Chevy114

05-07-2008, 05:35 AM

I think its pretty cool!

P.S. Did you guys hear ozzie guillen rant about being world series champs just 3 years ago and still being treated like the 2nd class team? I have to agree with him, all they seem talk about in the national news is the cubs, when his team is doing a good job of winning.

six4three

05-07-2008, 08:49 AM

stlfan

05-07-2008, 09:18 AM

I agree that it seems a little over the top with all the bricks, etc. Sure, it had been 80+ years since they won a championship, but what happens when they win another one or several? I felt the same way when at Busch II they built a Plaza of Champions around the Stan Musial statue. They didn't leave much room for expansion to add more monuments for future championships. Of course that all doesn't matter now since they tore down Busch II and the Plaza of Champions.

But one of the things they did at Busch III that I liked but I am now unsure about (consider it painting yourself in a corner) but all around the stadium they have fan brick pavers that surround large pavers commemorating the 100 Most Memorable Moments in Cardinals History. But now they have no more room to put future moments, some of which have already happened since laying these moment pavers at the start of the 2006 season.

So, my point is that in a way the White Sox have seemed to do a similar thing.

Philtration

05-07-2008, 11:28 AM

I don't know... I really don't care for it that much. It kind of looks like something that belongs in front of a mall or children's hospital.
Even though the White Sox do not have a bunch of championships to look back on they do have a lot of history and this kind of looks forced. Like they tried to make it be too many things at once.
Sometimes simplicity is a much better monument than a lot of bells and whistles.
I like the statues inside the park more than this but thats just me.

At least they won the World Series and that was the only one that I have seen on either side of town in my lifetime.
Damn! Why is that? Two teams in town for all these years and we get one World Series winner in 80 years?

Kentucky Bomber

05-07-2008, 12:49 PM

At least they won the World Series and that was the only one that I have seen on either side of town in my lifetime.
Damn! Why is that? Two teams in town for all these years and we get one World Series winner in 80 years?

Lousy ownership and an uncaring fandom on the North Side, being outspent and some bad timing on the South Side.

skobabe8

05-07-2008, 03:53 PM

We have some tough critics around here! I think it looks great and really havent heard anyone say anything different. I like how accurate the players look and how they did Uribe on top leaping over the wall of the peice.

There's plenty of room outside USCF to add another monument should the Sox win another world series. Thats the least of my concerns.

skobabe8

05-07-2008, 04:05 PM

...Or maybe I defend it because I asked my girlfriend a certain question a few weeks ago:

http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/gallery/data/6/Sox_Game_001.JPG

(notice the monument in the background) :p

Yoda

05-07-2008, 04:38 PM

Congrats skobabe!

btown12

05-07-2008, 04:58 PM

First off, congratulations skobabe8!

As far as the monument it definitely seems a little over the top, it hasn't even been 5 years yet! I understand the Sox fans having pride, the Cubs not winning a WS, Northside v. Southside, etc... but it seems a little ridiculous. I would personally be embarassed and upset if the Phillies ever built something like that because it seems like "Hey we won one World Series, that's good enough for me! Let's build a monument!" I don't know, I'm not a Sox fan but it seems odd.

Another random question, is there another ballpark that has a statue(s) of players still currently on the team? Even another stadium? The only one I could think of where maybe this happened, ironically enough, would be at the United Center in Chicago when MJ came out of retirement....did that statue exist then?

Yoda

05-07-2008, 05:09 PM

They're making a statue for Harold Baines who is a coach for the White Sox

hsnterprize

05-07-2008, 10:54 PM

They're making a statue for Harold Baines who is a coach for the White SoxYeah...they are. During the late 70's and early 80's, Baines was one of the more popular players on the team along with Carton Fisk when he came to the White Sox. The team is pretty much going to make statues of all their retired numbered players. And in my not-so-humble opinion, they should retire Frank Thomas's number the second he announces his retirement. Even though "The Big Hurt" can be a whiny jerk, there's no doubt his hitting numbers for the White Sox are some of the best in team history.

hsnterprize

05-07-2008, 11:01 PM

First off, congratulations skobabe8!

Another random question, is there another ballpark that has a statue(s) of players still currently on the team? Even another stadium? The only one I could think of where maybe this happened, ironically enough, would be at the United Center in Chicago when MJ came out of retirement....did that statue exist then?Michael Jordan was retiring when the United Center statue was built/unveiled. During his made-for-TV retirement ceremony, Larry King unveiled the statue.

http://www.nba.com/media/bulls/mjstatue_070824.jpg

None of us knew it yet, but MJ would eventually come out of retirement...not once, but twice. In fact, the first time he "announced his retirement", Jerry Reinsdorf personally offered MJ a minor league contract to play with the Sox' AA team, the Birmingham Barons. MJ said he wanted to try playing baseball. And it didn't matter that much to Reinsdorf because he owns both the White Sox and the Bulls.

http://www.sneakerfiles.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/12/jordan_baseball_2.jpg
Thank God this career didn't last long. He couldn't hit a curve ball.

Philtration

05-08-2008, 06:13 AM

Lousy ownership and an uncaring fandom on the North Side, being outspent and some bad timing on the South Side.

Yup. Can't argue with that.

btown12

05-08-2008, 08:38 AM

None of us knew it yet, but MJ would eventually come out of retirement...not once, but twice. In fact, the first time he "announced his retirement", Jerry Reinsdorf personally offered MJ a minor league contract to play with the Sox' AA team, the Birmingham Barons. MJ said he wanted to try playing baseball. And it didn't matter that much to Reinsdorf because he owns both the White Sox and the Bulls.

Well there are some who would say, and some evidence to suggest, that Jordan didn't exactly "retire" the first time.

Anyways, back to the monument...I think I would be a fan of this if it was unveiled in 2015, not in 2008. Do they tear it down and start a new one if they go on a run of WS titles in the next few years?

Chevy114

05-08-2008, 09:04 AM

I never understood the statues in chicago that look like its either melting or they are morphing from out of the ground like the mj and harry carey ones.

My questions are why larry king? He's from brooklyn, there has to be a chicago native that could have done it!

Also does anyone else think mj was temporarily kicked out of the nba for too much gambling which is why he wanted to play baseball?

btown12

05-08-2008, 09:33 AM

Also does anyone else think mj was temporarily kicked out of the nba for too much gambling which is why he wanted to play baseball?

There's certainly some evidence to suggest that...cancelled checks, slip-ups in interviews, league investigations, etc...however who knows if it's true. You gotta figure that if someone knew enough they would have come out with a book on the subject even if it was just to make some cash (see Canseco, Jose).

On the other hand, why would MJ come out and announce his retirement while the White Sox were playing a game in the ALCS? Trying to beat someone to the punch or squash another potential storyline? Some things don't add up. My personal opinion is that the NBA maneuvered their way around the situation by forcing MJ to "retire" instead of suspending him. I think it's the same reason Barry Bonds never failed a drug test. These leagues understand what makes them money and know how to play their cards to try and come out of a situation in the best light possible. If you think an MJ gambling scandal wouldn't have ruined the NBA's credibility, you're sorely mistaken.

I digress...cue the bashing from Chicago fans squashing this theory, followed by the inevitable Cubs vs. Sox debate :)

six4three

05-08-2008, 10:22 AM

Possible, but I'd make one change - MLB would love for Bonds to have failed a drug test.

Nobody wanted to see Hank Aaron's record stay intact a little while longer than Baseball's caretakers.

Chevy114

05-08-2008, 12:00 PM

I also think it was funny that the same year mj "retired" from basketball and started to play baseball there was a strike! So you had to watch the barons on espn that summer. Pretty freaky huh?

Im still mad I didn't buy that offical mj #45 jersey like my neighbor, because I didn't think it would be worth any money, man I bet my neighbor as a kid is counting his money!

As for bonds, I think everyone outside of SF hated bonds, I mean everyone. He wasn't friendly to the meida, he had a list of items for every clubhouse he was in, he pointed out baseballs short comings, and he played the race card a lot. I can't tell if the mlb wanted him to test positive or if it was like pro wrestling or muhammid ali where you want a bad guy every now and then. I mean I bet he sold a lot of tickets the year he broke the record.

If bonds tested positive what would happend, would he be banned from records or would they just have to put an * by his stats?

hsnterprize

05-11-2008, 05:19 PM

On the other hand, why would MJ come out and announce his retirement while the White Sox were playing a game in the ALCS?

A lot of White Sox fans are wondering the same thing. I personally was at Fort Bragg in North Carolina when MJ announced his "first" retirement, and according to many Sox fans, that obviously overshadowed the team's playing vs. Toronto in the 1993 ALCS. My personal opinion is while it was a sad story for Chicago sports fans in general, it was a serious blow to the Sox fans because just when it looked like the team would get some significant attention, they get overlooked (MJ would overlook ANYONE, but this was a real downer). Not to mention, when Jerry Reinsdorf answered questions about the retirement, he seemed to be somewhat non-chalant about the news...as if to imply, "it's a shame my White Sox are getting ignored, but my Bulls are getting a TON of press, so it'll benefit me either way." Remember, Reinsdorf owns both the Bulls and the White Sox.

hsnterprize

05-11-2008, 05:25 PM

I also think it was funny that the same year mj "retired" from basketball and started to play baseball there was a strike! So you had to watch the barons on espn that summer. Pretty freaky huh?

You should've seen all the hype about his when baseball returned. The year baseball came back, the Cubs and White Sox played an exhibition game at Wrigley Field, and all the talk was about a certain #45 playing for the south siders. MJ appeared in the game to a standing ovation late in the game, and he actually hit a double down the left field line. Everyone in the stands cheered, but we all pretty much knew he wouldn't last long in baseball. There was also a lot of debate amongst the local sports media whether or not MJ's playing was "good for baseball", meaning if he playing the game helped or hurt the game's popularity. Considering how unpopular baseball was at the time, I guess anything the game could do to spark interest was okay. Too bad we're reaping the results of that mentality today with players testing positive for steroids and HGH. Yep...guys and chicks did dig the long ball, but we're now paying the price for wanting the long ball so much.

six4three

05-12-2008, 07:41 AM

If bonds tested positive what would happend, would he be banned from records or would they just have to put an * by his stats?

If he had tested positive before breaking the record, and if the CBA permitted it, I bet they would have suspended him.

If not, then I suspect Bud would have met with him privately and offered him a settlement to retire before breaking Aaron's record - he could keep the single-season record, keep all his numbers, and baseball wouldn't take any action on his failed test.

But now that he's broken it, I don't think it's helpful to do anything even if he does test positive. Just pray A-Rod stays on pace to claim the record, and soon. :D

hsnterprize

05-15-2008, 06:46 AM

...why larry king? He's from brooklyn, there has to be a chicago native that could have done it!

MJ's first retirement ceremony was a 2-hour, made-for-TV special that culimated in he and his family raising #23 to the United Center rafters. There were celebrities galore at this event, and I heard many producers in the arena were coaxing fans to move to the lower levels to fill them...it wasn't sold out from what I hear.

I forgot which network aired the special, but I do remember some local and national celebrities who were there including Woody Harrelson (who was enjoying the success of "White Men Can't Jump"), Chicagoan Geroge Wendt (Norm from "Cheers" and one of the famous "Superfans"), and others...including Larry King.

Chevy114

05-15-2008, 07:36 AM

I think arod would be a better role model for baseball than bonds, but we can only hope at this point. I always wanted griffey to break it!

I remember when someone "stole" the 23 banner from the arena after he wore 23 in the game against the magic.

Philtration

05-15-2008, 11:18 AM

There's certainly some evidence to suggest that...cancelled checks, slip-ups in interviews, league investigations, etc...however who knows if it's true. You gotta figure that if someone knew enough they would have come out with a book on the subject even if it was just to make some cash (see Canseco, Jose).

On the other hand, why would MJ come out and announce his retirement while the White Sox were playing a game in the ALCS? Trying to beat someone to the punch or squash another potential storyline? Some things don't add up. My personal opinion is that the NBA maneuvered their way around the situation by forcing MJ to "retire" instead of suspending him. I think it's the same reason Barry Bonds never failed a drug test. These leagues understand what makes them money and know how to play their cards to try and come out of a situation in the best light possible. If you think an MJ gambling scandal wouldn't have ruined the NBA's credibility, you're sorely mistaken.

I digress...cue the bashing from Chicago fans squashing this theory, followed by the inevitable Cubs vs. Sox debate :)

He did say that he felt like walking away after his father was murdered and he did accomplish pretty much everything that he wanted to in basketball at that point. NCAA National Championship, 2 Olympic gold medals, 3 NBA rings, several MVP awards, and lots of money.... why is it so hard to believe that he wanted to move on to something else?

PeteU

05-15-2008, 12:03 PM

And in my not-so-humble opinion, they should retire Frank Thomas's number the second he announces his retirement. Even though "The Big Hurt" can be a whiny jerk, there's no doubt his hitting numbers for the White Sox are some of the best in team history.

They probably will, but only after he retires.

I know the Orioles informally retired Eddie Murray's number 33 after he left in 1988, reinstated it only for him in his 1996 return to the team, and after he retired the next year, formally retired the number.

Has anyone worn Thomas' number since he left the White Sox?

CitiFieldIsNoShea

05-15-2008, 10:42 PM

Post was deleted

Chevy114

05-16-2008, 08:00 AM

He did say that he felt like walking away after his father was murdered and he did accomplish pretty much everything that he wanted to in basketball at that point. NCAA National Championship, 2 Olympic gold medals, 3 NBA rings, several MVP awards, and lots of money.... why is it so hard to believe that he wanted to move on to something else?

Its hard to believe that he would go play baseball out of no where. Retiring is one thing Jim Brown retired in his prime and so did barry sanders, but when M.J. did it was a little strange because he went right into baseball.

Philtration

05-16-2008, 08:22 AM

Its hard to believe that he would go play baseball out of no where. Retiring is one thing Jim Brown retired in his prime and so did barry sanders, but when M.J. did it was a little strange because he went right into baseball.

And Jim Brown went right into movies.
If Jordan was really suspended for gambling and it was kept as a secret then what would it have accomplished?
I believe that not having Jordan on the court for two years at the height of career and the Bulls selling a **** load of NBA merchandise would have been a lot more damaging to the league than any gambling allegations.
Jordan and the Bulls were the NBA's cash cow at the time and overseas sales of merchandise skyrocketed because of them.
Sitting him down would have been shooting themselves in the foot and I find it hard to believe that the NBA would turn their backs on the interest that Jordan brought to the league and the money that was generated.

Chevy114

05-16-2008, 09:54 AM

And Jim Brown went right into movies.
If Jordan was really suspended for gambling and it was kept as a secret then what would it have accomplished?
I believe that not having Jordan on the court for two years at the height of career and the Bulls selling a **** load of NBA merchandise would have been a lot more damaging to the league than any gambling allegations.
Jordan and the Bulls were the NBA's cash cow at the time and overseas sales of merchandise skyrocketed because of them.
Sitting him down would have been shooting themselves in the foot and I find it hard to believe that the NBA would turn their backs on the interest that Jordan brought to the league and the money that was generated.

Whats worse watching a legend fall from grace because he can't handle his gambling addiction or making a guy take a year or two off to see if he fixes his problem? Ask Pete Rose.

Philtration

05-16-2008, 10:49 AM

Whats worse watching a legend fall from grace because he can't handle his gambling addiction or making a guy take a year or two off to see if he fixes his problem? Ask Pete Rose.

You have NBA players doing a lot more than betting on their golf games and they are still in good standing with the league.
Jordan being suspended sounds far fetched at best.
Sometimes things are just as they seem with out some secret conspiracy thing behind it.

Chevy114

05-16-2008, 11:27 AM

You have NBA players doing a lot more than betting on their golf games and they are still in good standing with the league.
Jordan being suspended sounds far fetched at best.
Sometimes things are just as they seem with out some secret conspiracy thing behind it.

It could be just as it seemed, but to me this is like when Hulk Hogan mr. all american pro wrestler telling kids to eat right and take their vitamins admitted to using steriods and for a while had an affect on him and the wwf. Same with Pete Rose a lot of people liked him. Also a lot of people like kobe bryant until his "rape" scandal. Its not a matter of what other players are doing, its a matter of what your star is doing.