Ballpark TV camera positions (esp. centerfield)

[hofflalu]

This is somewhat inspired by a thread going on at twinsballpark2010.com (http://twinsballpark2010.com), about potential centerfield camera locations.

Anyway, (as you may notice, I posted a similar question at that site as well), I've always wondered why the Yankee Stadium center-field camera from at least 1976 to sometime in the '80s was positioned to the *right-field side* of dead center, instead of to the left-field side like pretty much every other TV camera position in baseball (not counting the ESPN "Dead Center" cameras). Every time I see a clip of a game broadcast from Yankee Stadium from that era, I can't help but notice that distinct camera angle.

So, questions:

1. Why did Yankee Stadium have this different centerfield camera position? Did it have to do with the renovation? Was it experimental since centerfield camera were still relatively new?

2. Exactly how long was the camera in that position, and what year did the Yankees switch to the conventional position on the left-field side of dead center?

3. Any other stadiums have a similar camera angle?

This thread I suppose can be used for a general discussion of camera placement in stadiums (the thread on twinsballpark2010.com is quite informative). For example, when were centerfield camera first used in game broadcats?

[dabx]

This is somewhat inspired by a thread going on at twinsballpark2010.com (http://twinsballpark2010.com), about potential centerfield camera locations.

Anyway, (as you may notice, I posted a similar question at that site as well), I've always wondered why the Yankee Stadium center-field camera from at least 1976 to sometime in the '80s was positioned to the *right-field side* of dead center, instead of to the left-field side like pretty much every other TV camera position in baseball (not counting the ESPN "Dead Center" cameras). Every time I see a clip of a game broadcast from Yankee Stadium from that era, I can't help but notice that distinct camera angle.

So, questions:

1. Why did Yankee Stadium have this different centerfield camera position? Did it have to do with the renovation? Was it experimental since centerfield camera were still relatively new?

2. Exactly how long was the camera in that position, and what year did the Yankees switch to the conventional position on the left-field side of dead center?

3. Any other stadiums have a similar camera angle?

This thread I suppose can be used for a general discussion of camera placement in stadiums (the thread on twinsballpark2010.com is quite informative). For example, when were centerfield camera first used in game broadcats?

In the old Yankee Stadium (1960's, 70's) WPIX had fixed right centerfield camera that was located in the scoreboard. There was a square opening on the front left side bottom - around where the "B" for Ballantine Ad was. It did not move, it just showed the picture and the batter.

After the stadium was renovated, a camera was located in the right field bleachers, on the top near the black.

I am not sure when the camera was switched to left center. I think it might have been when MSG/Bill Webb (TV Director) started to control the telecasts in the late 80's

[Gehrig27]

My only guess is that it was because someone just said "ok put the camera here" and there wasn't much thought to it as long as it showed the pitcher and hitter. Or, maybe it had something to do with being able to see the more frequent righthanded batters and pitchers better. I think the views varried from ballpark to ballpark, some perhaps influenced by the positioning of the grandstands or just by random choice. I know the first instance of a centerfield camera was by NBC durring the 1957 world series. I've seen old pictures on the Daily News photo archives that show the position of the Yankee Stadium camera crews in the late 50's and into the 60's as being under the "no betting" sign on the righthand side of the batters eye. Judging from that I would have to say that Yankee stadium had that view from right field in the old stadium and in the current stadium at least until 1987 because I have footage of a Don Mattingly home run in 1987 from that right field view. I really think it might just have something to do with the station broadcasting; my memory is a little hazy but I think NBC's coverage of the 1978 world series may have had the current left field view. Maybe when Yankees broadcasting went over to MSG in 1989, they put the view in left field and its stayed there since.

Here's a comparison: 1977 and 2003

[JWB13]

I've always liked the angle from right-center better than the one currently used.

[six4three]

It's an interesting question: do you want right-handed pitchers or right handed batters to be open to the camera?

[BenHertz]

They should have both, but keep the right-center field camera fixed/set/no movement. I love seeing breaking balls from different angles.

I'm tired of all the close-ups and some of these stupid angles the TV directors love so much. ARGH! Oh well.

[Gehrig27]

Here are the main camera angles from the 1952 World Series.

[BenHertz]

Yikes. I'm guessing that wasn't in HD, either.

[Lions/Tigers@Cubs.OhMy!]

Yikes. I'm guessing that wasn't in HD, either. :rofl: That was a good one!

[the_Bored]

From what I've seen on Sportscenter and Baseball Tonight, NESN, the station that broadcasts Red Sox games, has been using a camera angle from dead center, higher up as to see over the pitcher. I suppose it gives a better view view of the strike zone, but I'm so used to the left-field-side camera. Are any NESN viewers able to give us any insight on this?

[Aviator_Frank]

From what I've seen on Sportscenter and Baseball Tonight, NESN, the station that broadcasts Red Sox games, has been using a camera angle from dead center, higher up as to see over the pitcher. I suppose it gives a better view view of the strike zone, but I'm so used to the left-field-side camera. Are any NESN viewers able to give us any insight on this?

I watch a lot of games on NESN because I love listening to Rem Dawg and Orsillo. Yes their cam is much closer to dead center. What that provides, best of all, is that you can see the movement on every pitch. Not only can you truly see balls and strikes as the ump does but you can see how the ball breaks over the plate on sliders, curves etc. It really gives you a feel for how each pitch moves differently and how some guys can really fool hitters with last-second ball movement.

The classic off-center in some parks is so far off line you can't even tell inside vs outside.

Another good one is MASN on Orioles home games. Very good line of sight camera-wise.

[Gehrig27]

Here are some comparisons.

[parlo]

My only guess is that it was because someone just said "ok put the camera here" and there wasn't much thought to it as long as it showed the pitcher and hitter. Or, maybe it had something to do with being able to see the more frequent righthanded batters and pitchers better. I think the views varried from ballpark to ballpark, some perhaps influenced by the positioning of the grandstands or just by random choice. I know the first instance of a centerfield camera was by NBC durring the 1957 world series. I've seen old pictures on the Daily News photo archives that show the position of the Yankee Stadium camera crews in the late 50's and into the 60's as being under the "no betting" sign on the righthand side of the batters eye. Judging from that I would have to say that Yankee stadium had that view from right field in the old stadium and in the current stadium at least until 1987 because I have footage of a Don Mattingly home run in 1987 from that right field view. I really think it might just have something to do with the station broadcasting; my memory is a little hazy but I think NBC's coverage of the 1978 world series may have had the current left field view. Maybe when Yankees broadcasting went over to MSG in 1989, they put the view in left field and its stayed there since.

Here's a comparison: 1977 and 2003 I recently saw Game 3, 1978 WS. The camera is left centerfield, like your 2003 photo.

[Manhattan]

I recently saw Game 3, 1978 WS. The camera is left centerfield, like your 2003 photo.
Thanks for posting about game 3 between the New York Yankees and the Los Angeles Dodgers at game 3 of the 1978 World Series. I hope that I will be on TV during a Major League Baseball game.

[cgcoyne2]

If you have predominately right-handed batters, they stand on the left side of the plate and look at the pitcher. While they're looking at the pitcher they are looking from the left and have a slight angle towards the pitcher so they look slightly to the right of center field. By putting the camera slightly left of centerfield the batter isn't looking in that direction and there is no distraction.

Just a guess.

[Bernard Shakey]

Here's a shot of the current left/centerfield camera bay at YS taken last week:

[Great One]

I don't have pictures of this, but for the exhibition game for the Dodgers and Red Sox, the centerfield camera was actually behind the second baseman. A very different angle to say the least due to the dimmensions of the LA Coliseum.

The centerfield camera angle really doesn't bother me at all as to where it is being placed. The only camera angle that does is the one for the Nationals' home games over home plate looking out to the outfield. That angle is just way too high.

[Gehrig27]

Here are some more interesting views: Don Larsen's perfect game and game 3 of the 1961 world series from Crosely Field, Mickey Mantle batting.

[Greg B.]

I know the first instance of a centerfield camera was by NBC durring the 1957 world series.

But I don't think the centerfield view became the primary shot for a number of years thereafter. I first started watching baseball on TV in the mid-1960s and it seems to me that the high home plate shot was the staple of coverage until the late 60s/early 70s. Is that accurate or is my memory playing tricks on me?

I've seen old pictures on the Daily News photo archives that show the position of the Yankee Stadium camera crews in the late 50's and into the 60's as being under the "no betting" sign on the righthand side of the batters eye. Judging from that I would have to say that Yankee stadium had that view from right field in the old stadium and in the current stadium at least until 1987 because I have footage of a Don Mattingly home run in 1987 from that right field view. I really think it might just have something to do with the station broadcasting; my memory is a little hazy but I think NBC's coverage of the 1978 world series may have had the current left field view. Maybe when Yankees broadcasting went over to MSG in 1989, they put the view in left field and its stayed there since.

Here's a comparison: 1977 and 2003

Thank you for posting the 1977 video capture -- I had forgotten that this particular angle used to be utilized in YS. Now that I see it, I miss it. It was very distinctive.

Having seen that, it reminds me that there used to be a stadium -- which I now cannot recall -- that had an extremely offset centerfield camera angle. It would have been more in left-center field. I presume it is a stadium that is now gone. Can anyone help me remember where that was?

[Gehrig27]

That’s right, although it was critically acclaimed by viewers when it was first used, a couple factors kept the center field camera from really taking hold. There is a great book out now Center Field Shot: a History of Baseball on Television, which goes into great depth about the subject. Here’s a good paraphrased excerpt that sheds some light on the center field view:
“Legendary broadcast director Harry Coyle is credited with first introducing the view during the color broadcast of the 1955 all star game. He began using the shot in World Series and All-Star games when they were carried in black and white. Since fewer cameras were used during black and white broadcasts, the view disappeared. During the 1957 series, the Sporting News commented on NBC’s spectacular camera work, including ‘an unusual angle at Milwaukee that enabled viewers to look over the pitchers shoulder towards home plate’. For the 57’ season, WPIX considered using a centerfield camera but was wary because the camera could steal the catcher’s signals. Jack Murphy, director of Yankee telecasts in the 50’s and 60’s, claimed that George Weiss thought the camera would make the telecasts too good, which would keep people away from the park. Weiss imposed restrictions on the number of times the view could be used during each game. Because of concerns over sign stealing in 1959, Ford Frick convinced NBC to eliminate the view temporarily. By the 65’ series, the view began to emerge as the most important shot. Footage from the 68’ and 69’ series confirmed the growing popularity. By 1975, the shot was so popular that NBC used two cameras in center.”

About the offset view…I’m not too sure, alot of stadiums had ones that were either too low to the ground or offset too much. I know Dodger Stadium used to have a pretty bad one, as did Qualcomm.

[Gehrig27]

For fun here's an evolution of the views used at Yankee stadium: 1961, 1963, 1967, 1977, 1978, 1995, 2000, and 2003.

[Greg B.]

About the offset view…I’m not too sure, alot of stadiums had ones that were either too low to the ground or offset too much. I know Dodger Stadium used to have a pretty bad one, as did Qualcomm.

The one I remember is more extreme than the Dodger Stadium capture you posted. I am thinking perhaps it was an American League park for some reason. Maybe it was old Met Stadium in Minneapolis.

[History Of Baseball Fan]

Heres an old one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1yWqis3WvbY&feature=related

[Shbmets]

There is no camera angle as bad as the overhead camera at Nationals Ballpark. It is so high up on the stadium that it's virtually unwatchable.

[Lpeters199]

I like where this camera is.....



....because this is what you see on your TV screen:

[Greg B.]

Back in the Harry Coyle days at NBC he used to utilize that field-level home plate camera quite a bit. You would see the cameraman moving the big camera from side to side behind the plate depending on whether a righty or lefty was at bat.

[Power Wally]

49472

Good pick. Early Dodger stadium before they moved the plate toward the outfield. You can see the platform for the center field camera. As a kid I remember seeing 2 platforms there, one on each side of the batter's eye.

[Lpeters199]

This looks like a bad camera angle.

[Gehrig27]

Found this picture of NBC color television trucks outside Yankee stadium (possibly 1955), and a camera in place at Ebbets Field.

[alpineinc]

Back in the Harry Coyle days at NBC he used to utilize that field-level home plate camera quite a bit. You would see the cameraman moving the big camera from side to side behind the plate depending on whether a righty or lefty was at bat.

As a Mets fan, the shot behind home plate is classic baseball - grew up in the 70's watching many a game from that angle - and seeing Seaver, Kooz, etc. straight on from that angle still gives me goosebumps.

[mets16]

As a Mets fan, the shot behind home plate is classic baseball - grew up in the 70's watching many a game from that angle - and seeing Seaver, Kooz, etc. straight on from that angle still gives me goosebumps.

Which reminds me... in 2004 MSG did a retro broadcast against the Expos...I was there of course..... but saw it on rewind.... It had Murphy and Ralph doing the call. Old graphics and home plate camera angle...... Does anyone have this on tape?

[Gehrig27]

Which reminds me... in 2004 MSG did a retro broadcast against the Expos...I was there of course..... but saw it on rewind.... It had Murphy and Ralph doing the call. Old graphics and home plate camera angle...... Does anyone have this on tape?

That's really cool, I think the Cubs did that earlier this year as well. That's one thing I always wished the Yankees would do; on old timers days wear good throwback uniforms (mitchel and ness quality, not polyester with old logos on them), and also do a retro broadcast of that game including old camera angles, old cameras, and old graphics.

[hofflalu]

About the offset view…I’m not too sure, alot of stadiums had ones that were either too low to the ground or offset too much. I know Dodger Stadium used to have a pretty bad one, as did Qualcomm.

I recall CBS using a particularly low centerfield camera angle at the Metrodome in the 1991 World Series. Typically it the angle is set up higher on the edge of the retractable bleachers in center field (and, lately, FSN North has gone to a dead-center camera angle) but that '91 angle looked almost field-level. Anyone know why CBS would go so low for that Series?

[bdhact1]

I remember the camera booths in early shea stadium. 2 are still bolted to the front of the mezzanine. The outfield booths have been removed but the doors are still intact. I remember waving to the camera as it panned the fans on the field level between innings.

[Greg B.]

Reviving this thread to comment on the debut of the two new NYC stadiums Friday night.

The new Yankee Stadium centerfield camera position gave a shot that looked very similar to the previous ones used in the last incarnation of the former stadium. I was struck while watching it how it seemed almost identical. As many have noted, however, the high home plate camera had the backstop screen in front of it, which many found distracting. The camera position itself was reminiscent of old Yankee Stadium's in the 50's and 60's, with a rather low angle.

Citi Field's camera positions seemed pretty typical but of course different from Shea's. It appears it would be very difficult if not impossible to have a low homeplate/backstop camera position like Shea used to have, as those are all premium seats in that location. But no complaints for me to note.

[NYFan1stYankFan2nd]

This looks like a bad camera angle.

49606

49607

Wow - (this is not relevant to the cameras but) - That has got to be the shortest HP > Backstop distance of any field outside of a grade school ballfield! That ball shoots beneath the catcher's legs it'll bounce right back out in front of him! :D

[NYFan1stYankFan2nd]

For fun here's an evolution of the views used at Yankee stadium: 1961, 1963, 1967, 1977, 1978, 1995, 2000, and 2003.

I'm just shuddering looking at your montage, Lou- You've got one more view to add now. ;)

[NYFan1stYankFan2nd]

I think overall camera positions in stadiums have evolved and multiplied. I remember as a 1st-3rd grader in the 70s watching Shea games, the angle used most was(ostensibly) from directly behind HP at the leading edge of either Shea's upper deck or the lip of the loge. The "compressed diamond" view that is, with the outfield fence just in view at the top of our TV screen. It broke away occasionally for a close up of the pitcher or batter, but none of the panning, outfield perspectives, or "whips"(where the camera rapidly moves to follow a play or a high-ball hit out toward the stands). But the rest of the time - just that diamond view. My folks are more or less Met fans, btw.

In those days, at least at Shea, baseball was as hypnotic and relaxing to watch on TV as it still is to listen to it on the radio. :)

[NYBase]

I dunno but that centerfield camera guy in NYS needs some sort of shelter.. he's just out there exposed to everyone enclosed by a strap rope thingy like at the bank. I predict the guy getting random pats on the back from drunk game goers.

[Gehrig27]

I'm just shuddering looking at your montage, Lou- You've got one more view to add now. ;)

Here's some more old ones before I find one of the new stadium. (1987,two from 1994, 1998, two from 1999, 2001, and high home 2003)