Every out must have been a line shot!

[BASEBALL_TRIVIA_NUT]

[updated:LAST EDITED ON Apr-15-02 AT 01:16 PM (EDT)]BASEBALL_TRIVIA_NUT

That's right, we want the list of mediocre major league
pitchers who registered a no-hitter in their careers.

Mediocre, in this case, means the pitcher had a short
major league career (5 years or less) or had a lifetime
pitching record under .500, even though he may have pitched
for second division clubs.

To start the list of the those pitchers whose no-hitters
must have caused other players to say "Every out must have
been a line shot!", I have to offer the most famous pitcher
earning that comment, Alva "Bobo" Holloman, whose major
league career ended the year after the no-hitter in his rookie
season.

Let's see the list, remembering that quality pitchers are
supposed to throw no-hitters, so Sandy or Jim Bunning should
not be on your list, but Joe Cowley should!

Have at it!!!

[Chisox73]

Let's start with Don Larsen,who posted a career record of 81-91 in 14 seasons in the bigs,including a 3-21 record for the 1954 Baltimore Orioles.

[LouGehrig]

[updated:LAST EDITED ON Apr-13-02 AT 09:28 PM (EDT)]Kenny Rogers is certainly the top because his was perfect.
Kent Mercker is up there too.
Ken Johnson of Houston.
Dave Morehead of Boston.
Tommy Greene of the Phillies.
Juan Nieves.

[JohnnysGhost]

Submitted for your approval....Dave Moorehead,(Boston AL)circa 1964-68.Believe he is the last pitcher to hurl a no hitter in Fenway (1965)?Career mark 40-64.

[JohnnysGhost]

Who/When was the last no-hitter pitched at Wrigley Field?

[Chisox73]

I bielive the last no-hitter at Wrigley was when Milt Pappas no-hit San Diego in September,1972.(It is also the last time a Cub threw a no-hitter)

Pappas retired the first 26 batters before walking the next batter(Fred Kendall?).Pappas believes to this day that Bruce Froemming squeezed the strike zone on him on that batter before the next batter hit a weak pop-up to 2nd baseman Carmen Fanzone to end it.

[bluezebra]

>Kenny Rogers is certainly the top because his was perfect.

Larsen's was also perfect. And his was in the World Series.

Bob

>Kent Mercker is up there too.
>Ken Johnson of Houston.
>Dave Morehead of Boston.
>Tommy Greene of the Phillies.
>Juan Nieves.

[Kroxquo]

How about Len Barker who threw a perfecto in '81 for the Tribe, and ended up under .500 for his career.

[shlevine42]

Leave us not forget BO BELINSKY (career 28-51) and ED HEAD (27-23 in a short 5-season career).

[researcher]

[updated:LAST EDITED ON Apr-15-02 AT 05:18 AM (EDT)]If I understand the question: less than 5 yrs + losing record

None listed qualify; Larsen,Rogers,Meaker,Barker,Belinkki,Johnson,
Morehead all pitched longer than 5 yrs.

Nieves and Head both had winning records.

Depending on what the ML was..JOE BORDEN pitched the first no-hitter
on 7/28/1875 beating chicago 4-0...in 2 yrs his record was 11-12

And Bumpas Jones in his first start 1892..careear 2-4 in 2 yrs.

[BASEBALL_TRIVIA_NUT]

>If I understand the question: less than 5 yrs + losing
>record
>
>None listed qualify;
>Larsen,Rogers,Meaker,Barker,Belinkki,Johnson,
>Morehead all pitched longer than 5 yrs.
>
>Nieves and Head both had winning records.
>
>Depending on what the ML was..JOE BORDEN pitched the first
>no-hitter
>on 7/28/1875 beating chicago 4-0...in 2 yrs his record was
>11-12
>
>And Bumpas Jones in his first start 1892..careear 2-4 in 2
>yrs.

BASEBALL_TRIVIA_NUT

OR is what I posted in the original, so that means a pitcher
qualifies if his career ended within 5 years (I will change that
to 5 years or less in the original after this posting)

OR

a pitcher qualifies if he has a losing career record.

This also means a pitcher just needs to qualify for 1 of the 2
specifications, not both!

So, by that clarification, I believe the hurlers cited in
all the other messages qualify.

As I said, for my original post, I meant to include pitchers
who lasted a full 5 years or less, so I will make that correction
immediately after this post.

Thanks for the inquiry and have a good day.

[JohnnysGhost]

I think or hope the thrust behind the original question,was who of these sub .500 career pitchers,had that one great day when it all came out right.(If the career was somewhat non-descript 5,6 yrs,nothing that stands out,might have put it together for one big game.Sometimes the questions are outstanding and may re-kindle a thought of a player,or a team,or a time....Sometimes the responses are so exact,that the slightest incorrect concept is pulled apart and stomped on.There are many here on the Almanac,that dont get to every thread because their thought or response is/was proved wrong.So from someone who actually remembers Dave Moorehead tossing a no-no,i say he fits theb bill of the original question.

[BASEBALL_TRIVIA_NUT]

[updated:LAST EDITED ON Apr-15-02 AT 08:27 PM (EDT)]>I think or hope the thrust behind the original question,was
>who of these sub .500 career pitchers,had that one great day
>when it all came out right

BASEBALL_TRIVIA_NUT

That's it, that the ticket! The 15 minutes of fame
happened for an ordinary Joe! The other concept is
"sometimes it's better to be lucky than good!"

Every major league pitcher on the fringe is one pitch
away from obscurity or immortality!

This thread is about the ordinary Joes who got lucky and
gained immortality from a no-hitter no one would have expected
from them in a million years!

What a bum Holloman was, as he himself would admit (it's
all in Total Baseball, so I kid you not), but there it is,
his name in the Hall of Fame because of " one great day when it
all came out right."

And don't all of us wish we could get our 15 minutes of
fame the same way!!!

That's all, folks!

[JohnnysGhost]

Thanks Triv.Sometimes i am reluctant to respond,because i am sure someone will "shoot me down",because i was not totally accurate in a reply.I believe this site is not for who knows more,but for those who still care......The Ghost

[jman74]

I think George Culver (Cincinnati) no-hit the Phillies in the late '60s.


He pitched longer than 5 years, but IMO, that alone doesn't let him off the mediocre hook! :)

[BASEBALL_TRIVIA_NUT]

>I think George Culver (Cincinnati) no-hit the Phillies in
>the late '60s.
>
>
>He pitched longer than 5 years, but IMO, that alone doesn't
>let him off the mediocre hook! :)

BASEBALL_TRIVIA_NUT

He's still hooked (48 W, 49 L) - The mediocre
shall not escape the hook (with apologies to "Sparky"
Anderson)!

[BASEBALL_TRIVIA_NUT]

>Thanks Triv.Sometimes i am reluctant to respond,because i am
>sure someone will "shoot me down",because i was not totally
>accurate in a reply.I believe this site is not for who knows
>more,but for those who still care......The Ghost

BASEBALL_TRIVIA_NUT

First, I want to ask the powers that be to consider
the last part of your message as this site's new slogan:

"The baseball site for those who still care!"

Your gem might just make those who are curious
visit and become addicted like the rest of us!

Now, regarding accuracy, I circumvent that by
always saying, "Correct me if I'm wrong......" before
I make any statement I'm not 100% sure of, and it
always works because my listeners will pounce on
me with all four feet if I am not right on the money,
which I prefer, because I learn that way!

Enough said!!!

[researcher]

Right on target BASEBALL_TRIVIA_NUT, none of us would have ever learned anything, if not corrected, or if afraid to make a mistake.

[trosmok]

Those who never make mistakes never accomplish anything. But, back to the original thread, how about considering the 1975 Oakland commitee no-hitter? Sept. 28 they pulled Vida Blue out of a no-hit contest, let Glenn Abbott twirl an inning, replaced him with Paul Lindblad for three outs and Rollie Fingers finished off the eighth and ninth for a four-pitcher no-no. I'm certain it was the first and probably only time this has happened; what was Alvin Dark, or more correctly Charley O' thinking? Hope I can find the box score or more info, I'm hazarding a guess that Vida developed a blister or stiffness, and that they wanted to get their bullpen some work before the ALCS, but Boston beat them anyway.

[Calif_Eagle]

Charlie Robertson of the Chicago White Sox tossed a perfect game on 4-30-22 a 2-0 win over the Tigers. He went 49-80 in 8 seasons with a 4.44 ERA. If anyone ever had a "career day" you have to think he's "way up there" on the list!

[flash143817]

While pitching for the Dodgers in the early '90s (unsure of the exact date) Kevin Gross hurled a no-hitter.


Career record: 142-158
Career ERA+ : 94


Gross pitched for 15 seasons and was most definitely mediocre. He had only 5 winning seasons out of 15 and only once did he post a winning record with as many as 10 wins. He also had only 5 seasons with an ERA+ better than average. But for one game, he was on top of his game.


I still believe Don Larsen takes the cake though with his World Series perfecto combined with a career losing record and a career ERA+ of 99.

[flash143817]

Another name that barely fits the criteria of having a losing career record is Johnny Vander Meer.

Yes, the man who hurled consecutive no-hitters finished with a lifetime record of 119-121. He did however post an above average ERA+ of 107 for his career and had 3 years that could be classified as very good. But nonetheless he fits the criteria and must be mentioned because his remarkable 2-game achievement game within the confines of a losing career record.

[brewcrew82]

For your consideration: Jose Jiminez in 1999...ended up with a 24-44 career mark. Career Numbers (http://www.baseball-almanac.com/players/player.php?p=jimenjo01)

[SHOELESSJOE3]

Those who never make mistakes never accomplish anything. But, back to the original thread, how about considering the 1975 Oakland commitee no-hitter? Sept. 28 they pulled Vida Blue out of a no-hit contest, let Glenn Abbott twirl an inning, replaced him with Paul Lindblad for three outs and Rollie Fingers finished off the eighth and ninth for a four-pitcher no-no. I'm certain it was the first and probably only time this has happened; what was Alvin Dark, or more correctly Charley O' thinking? Hope I can find the box score or more info, I'm hazarding a guess that Vida developed a blister or stiffness, and that they wanted to get their bullpen some work before the ALCS, but Boston beat them anyway.

No blister but your on the right track, the decision to pull Blue was connected to the upcoming playoffs. Before the game, Dark said he planned on using his starters for only 5 innings in getting ready for the playoffs.

Blue speaks after the game,"I knew I was coming out did not really care and besides I did not want to give up the first hit and become the goat." Thats what he said, "the goat".

[SABR Matt]

Eric.

Milton.

Enough said.

[ElHalo]

Eric.

Milton.

Enough said.

Eric Milton's been a pretty good pitcher for large chunks of his career. Sure, he gives up too many homers, but I'm not gonna hold that against him too much if he can be a better than average pitcher for 200 innings a year. I wouldn't kick him out of my rotation (at least in his 99-01 guise). Sure as heck a lot better than some other guys mentioned. I wouldn't put nearly so much faith in DIPS as you do.

[SABR Matt]

LOL...whatever EH...

Eric Milton has been near replacement level his entire career...you of all people should hate him with his horrendous K-rates.

[ElHalo]

LOL...whatever EH...

Eric Milton has been near replacement level his entire career...you of all people should hate him with his horrendous K-rates.

I'm not saying he's a Hall of Famer (or even All Star, or even particularly good), but he's certainly better than replacement level. He's been top 5 in WHIP and BB rate a couple of times, and his career .282 balls in play average isn't terrible (Bartolo Colon put up a .279 in winning the Cy Young last year). Yes, I know you don't think a pitcher has any control over his BiP average, but I happen to disagree with you.

[SHOELESSJOE3]

Thats the beauty of the great game, baseball. Football, basketball winner and loser on any given day more predictable, not certain but in those team sports the better team is more likley to win.

In baseball, get a pitcher, a mediocre pitcher on an average or even below average team and he throws a gem or in some cases just a great game and they can beat the best team, on that day.

I'm not that surprised when a sub par pitcher throws a no-hitter, he just had one of those days.

[FatAngel]

I was on acid when Dock Ellis pitched his no-no ;)