1968-69 Offseason Thread

[leecemark]

--Greeting all, its time to start preparations for another season of CKL baseball. This offseason will be a little more eventfull than most as we add 4 new teams. Welcome to our new owners and their teams - Hack_Miller and the KW Wranglers, Windy City Fan and the Windy City Thunder, The Dude and AC Appletonia and Blueblood and the Brawlers..
--The first deadline will be for existing owners to post their 14 man protected list, as well as their expansion eligible players and free agents. That list needs to be posted by midnight EST on Friday, May 9. The expansion draft is set for 9PM EST on Friday, May 16.
--The other deadlines are also tenative based on the expansion timeline. The first 9 rounds will be live. The subsequent 16 rounds will be on an 8 hour clock and could take as much as 3 weeks to complete (although hopefully it will move quicker). The rookie draft then is very tenatively scheduled for 8 PM EST on Friday, June 6 and the free agent auction for 8 PM EST on Friday, June 13.
--Existing owners are now free to make trades. Expansion owners may not make any deals until they have players to move. They may not trade draft picks prior to the conclusion of the expansion draft. The non-tender/buy out period is also postponed until after the expansion draft. Existing owners may not release players under club control until after they have been offered up to the new teams.
--As a reminder, all player who had a PA or BF in the CKL in 1968 are due a 250K raise, with 2 exceptions. Players on multi-year free agent deals have the same salary throughout the deal. Players from the draft class of 1966 have their salaries doubled regardless of whether they played last year or not.

[leecemark]

--Please let me know if I have any errors or omissions in traded picks.

1) Thuinder 2-Cloverleafs
2) Wranglers
3) Brawlers
4) Appletonia
5) Gamblers, 1-Angels, 2 and 3- Legends
6) Diablos, 2-Knights
7) Badgers
8) Angels, 1/2*- Knights, 3 -Appletonia , 4 - Legends, 5 - Gold Sox
9) Shoeless Joes 1-Hard Cider, 2-Appletonia, 3-Hard Cider
10) Redbirds 1-Thunder (extra pick between 2nd and 3rd rounds)
11) Cloverleafs
12) Skipjacks 2-Appletonia
13) Knights
14) Hard Cider 1-Cloverleafs, 3-Angels
15) Gold Sox 1-Hard Cider, 2- Redbirds, 3 - Shoeless 4-Angels
16) Legends 2-Knights

[leecemark]

--All players drafted in 1963 will be free agents this year unless they have previously acheived free agency and signed a multi-year deal. Also any players whose contracts expired after 1968 will be free agents. Only 10 players will be premium free agents (i.e. auctioned off in the live draft). I've bolded my nominations from the class of 63. Your suggestions for other players or expiring contract players are welcome. Also let me know if any of the class of 63 players are on multi-year deals I've missed.

1) Hard Cider from Gamblers - Dick Allen
2) Legends - Jim Ray Hart
3) Diablos - Pete Rose
4) Shoeless Joes - Mickey Lolich
5) Cannons - Jimmy Wynn
6) Legends from Redbirds - Tommy John
7) Skipjacks - Willie Horton
8) Gamblers from Knights via Skipjacks - Rico Carty
9) Legends from hard Cider - Ron Hunt
Second round
1/10) Gamblers - Rico Petrocelli
2/11) Legends - Rusty Staub
3/12) Cannons from Diablos - Don Buford
4/13) Hard Cider from Avengers - Joe Morgan - already on multi-year deal
5/14) Hard Cider from Cannons - Jim Hall
6/15) Shoeless Joes from Redbirds - Denny McLain
7/16) Skipjacks - Frank Linzy
8/17) Legends from Knights - Gene Alley
9/18) Hard Cider - Wally Bunker
Third round
1/19) Gamblers - Ron Herbel
2/20) Legends - Ray Culp - already on multi-year deal
3/21) Diablos - Joe Hoerner
4/22) Shoeless Joes - Don Wert
5/23) Cannons - Ken Harrelson
6/24) Redbirds - Bruce Howard
7/25) Gambler from Skipjacks via Hard Cider - Gates Brown
8/26) Knights - Vic Davalillo
9/27) Hard Cider - Larry Brown
Fourth round
1/28) Gamblers -]Jose Cardenal[
2/29) Legends - Marcelino Lopez
3/30) Diablos - Jose Santiago
4/31) Shoeless Joes - Bob Sadowski
5/32) Cannons - Aubrey Gatewood
6/33) Redbirds - Willie Smith
7/34) Skipjacks - Dick Green - already on multi-year deal
8/35) Knights - Pass
9/36) Redbirds from Hard Cider - Cleon Jones
Fifth round
1/37) Gamblers - Pass
2/38) Legends - Pass
3/39) Diablos - Pass
4/40) Shoeless Joes - Pass
5/41) Cannons - Al Ferrara - already on FA deal
6/42) Redbirds - Jesus Alou
7/43) Skipjacks - Grover Powell
8/44) Knights - Pass
9/45) Hard Cider - Dick Calmus
6th round
Cannons - John Bateman
Redbirds - Bob Chance

[catcher24]

Looking at your list and then a quick trip to b-r.com, Mark, leads me to suggest making Willie Horton a PFA rather than Jose Cardenal. Horton has three seasons of over 130 OPS+ coming up and a 117 and 99, while Cardenal has 90,105,88,121,119. Horton does have less PA every year, though. Maybe you were looking for quantity over quality, although either one would be welcome on my team!:p

[Sockeye]

According to my records the Angels own Hard Cider's 3rd rd pick in '69 and EB Gold Sox 4th rd pick in '69. Hard Cider's 3rd rd pick is listed as belonging to the Skipjacks. After going back and looking at the 67-68 offseason thread. The Skipjacks traded Hard Cider's pick to me during this past offseason. The complete deal was as follows.

- 3B Brooks Robinson (18.0, 64-68)
- 2nd round pick in '68 (JW Skipjacks)
- 3rd round pick in '69 (from Hard Cider)

to Sockeye's Angels for

- RP Don McMahon (10.0, 65-69)
- SP Ray Sadecki (9.25, 61)
- 1B/OF Ken Harrelson (1.0, 63-68)

The 4th rd pick from the Gold sox came to me in the first deal I pulled off after entering the league. Post #171 of the 1967 season thread. I quote "the Gold Sox send their fourth-round picks in 1968 and 1969 to the Angels for Steve Barber and the Angels' fifth-round pick in 1968."

[-Kyle-]

NOTE: I will be trying to complete a trade to finish this protected list. I am aware I have under 14 :).
14 Protected
LF/3B/1B Harmon Killebrew (12m, Franchise Player)
CF Willie Davis (7.5m 67-70)
LHP Jim Kaat (8.75m, 61 Draft, Trade with Defunct Nails)
LHP Ron Perranoski (8.00m 61 Draft, Trade with Gold Sox)
RHP Mel Stottlemyre (3.50m, 64 Draft)
LHP Jerry Koosman (1.00m, 67 Draft)
C Ed Kirkpatrick (.25m 67-69)
RHP Marty Pattin (.50m, 68 Draft)
3B Bill Melton (.75m, 68 Draft)
SS Rico Petrocelli (1.50m, 63 Draft)
4 Extra Spots as of right now.

___________________________


This is my roster taken from my thread.

Retained on FA contract (6, 21.5m)

LF/3B/1B Harmon Killebrew (12m, Franchise Player)
CF Willie Davis (7.5m 67-70)
3B/1B Pete Ward (1.25m 68-69)
C Ed Kirkpatrick (.25m 67-69)
SS Sandy Alomar (.25m 67-69)
RHP Jim Britton (.25m 67-69)

Draftees retained by salary increase (9, 26.75)

LHP Jim Kaat (8.75m, 61 Draft, Trade with Defunct Nails)
LHP Ron Perranoski (8.00m 61 Draft, Trade with Gold Sox)
RHP Mel Stottlemyre (3.50m, 64 Draft)
C Paul Casanova (1.75m, 65 Draft)
RHP Gary Wagner (1.75m, 65 Draft)
LHP Jerry Koosman (1.00m, 67 Draft)
RHP Gene Brabender (1.00m, 66 Draft)
RHP Marty Pattin (.50m, 68 Draft)
RHP Gary Waslewski (.50m, 67 Draft)

Draftees retained without salary increase (7, 2.5m)

3B Bill Melton (.75m, 68 Draft)
RHP Bill Stoneman (.50m, 67 Draft)
SS/3B Eddie Leon (.25m, 68 Draft)
C Dick Billings (.25m, 68 Draft)
RHP Bruce Dal Canton (.25m, 67 Draft)
LF Danny Walton (.25m, 68 Draft)
RHP Mike Paul (.25m, 68 Draft)

22 at 50.75m
---------



Leaving due to expiring FA contract

2B Bill Mazeroski (.75m 68-68)
1B Tom McCraw (.25m 68-68)
LHP Steve Barber (.25m 68-68)
OF Vic Davalillo (.50m 67-68)
RHP Joe Sparma (.25m 68-68)
RHP Sammy Ellis (.25m 68-68)
C Dave Duncan (.25m 68-68)
2B Frank Quilici (.25m 68-68)
C Dave Adlesh (.25m, 66-68)
2b Marv Staehle (.25m (66-68)

Leaving due to non tender--Non tenders not permitted till after expansion draft. These guys will be part of your contribution to the expansion pool

1B Gary Holman (.25m 68 Draft)
RHP Jeff James (.25m 68 Draft)
2B John Donaldson (.50m, 66 Draft)
3B Hank Allen (.50m, 66 Draft)

Leaving due to 6 year rule

OF Jose Cardenal (.75m, 63 Draft)
OF Rico Carty (2.50m, 63 Draft)
RHP Ron Herbel (1.50m, 63 Draft)

[catcher24]

Legends protected, draft eligible, and free agent players. All salaries are updated for the 1969 season. Thru is the last year of contract; the player will become a free agent after that season. YTY is a year to year contract at the club's option. Bump is the year the player is due to receive their "arbitration" salary doubling; if no year is listed, the bump has already been given.

14 Protected Players
C: Bill Freehan - 1961 draft, 5M, YTY
1B: Willie McCovey - 1961 draft/trade, 11M, YTY
2B: Joe Morgan - 1968 FA - 5 years, 10.5M, thru 1972
3B: Ron Santo - 1961 draft, 12M, Franchise player
3B: Richie Hebner - 1968 draft, 1M, thru 1973
OF: Reggie Smith - 1966 draft, 2.5M, thru 1971
OF: Rick Monday - 1966 draft, 2.5M, thru 1971
OF: Hank Aaron - 1961 draft/trade, 12.25M, YTY
SP: Tom Seaver - 1967 draft, 1.5M, thru 1972
SP: Fergie Jenkins - 1965 draft, 2.75M, thru 1970
SP: Bill Hands - 1965 draft, 2.75M, thru 1970
SP: Dock Ellis - 1968 draft, 1M, thru 1973
RP: Sparky Lyle - 1967 draft, 1.25M, thru 1972
RP: Lindy McDaniel - 1961 draft, 3M, YTY

Expansion Draft Eligible
C: Duke Sims - 1964 draft, 1M, thru 1969
1B: Mike Jorgenson - 1968 draft, 250K - bump 1971, thru 1973
2B: Dick Green - 1967 FA - 3 years, 1.75M, thru 1969
SS: Bert Campaneris - 1964 draft/trade, 1.75M, thru 1969
SS: Ed Brinkman - 1968 FA - 3 years, 250K, thru 1970
OF: Joe Rudi - 1967 draft, 250K - bump 1970, thru 1972
OF: Dave May - 1967 draft, 250K - bump 1970, thru 1972
OF: Amos Otis - 1967 draft, 500K - bump 1970, thru 1972
OF: Tommie Harper - 1968 FA - 4 years, 6M, thru 1971
OF: Art Shamsky - 1965 draft, 1.75M, thru 1970
OF: Ed Stroud - 1968 FA - 3 years, 250K, thru 1970
SP: Luis Tiant - 1964 draft/trade, 3.5M, thru 1969
SP: Al Downing - 1961 draft, 2.25M, YTY
RP: Ted Abernathy - 1961 draft, 2M, YTY
RP: Bob Locker - 1965 draft, 1.75M, thru 1970
RP: Ron Kline - 1961 draft, 2.75M, YTY
RP: Roger Nelson - 1967 draft, 500K - bump 1970, thru 1972
RP: John Cumberland - 1968 draft, 250K - bump 1971, thru 1973
RP: Tom Burgmeier - 1968 draft, 250K - bump 1971, thru 1973
RP: Fred Beene - 1968 draft, 250K - bump 1971, thru 1973

Free Agents - Contracts Expired
C: Jim French
2B: Don Buford
SP: Jerry Arrigo
SP: Al Jackson
RP: John Morris

Retired
C: Billy Bryan

[jkc32]

--Please let me know if I have any errors or omissions in traded picks.
9) Shoeless Joes 1-Hard Cider, 2-Gold Sox, 3-Hard Cider


I don't recall dealing my 3rd rounder to Hard Cider. I know he has my 1st in 1969 and my 3rd in 1971 (I have his 3rd in 1970)...If my records are wrong, please let me know.

[jkc32]

--All players drafted in 1963 will be free agents this year unless they have previously acheived free agency and signed a multi-year deal. Also any players whose contracts expired after 1968 will be free agents. Only 10 players will be premium free agents (i.e. auctioned off in the live draft). I've bolded my nominations from the class of 63. Your suggestions for other players or expiring contract players are welcome. Also let me know if any of the class of 63 players are on multi-year deals I've missed.

Fifth round
1/37) Gamblers - Pass
2/38) Legends - Pass
3/39) Diablos - Pass
4/40) Shoeless Joes - Pass
5/41) Cannons - Al Ferrara
6/42) Redbirds - Jesus Alou
7/43) Skipjacks - Grover Powell
8/44) Knights - Pass
9/45) Hard Cider - Dick Calmus
6th round
Cannons - John Bateman
Redbirds - Bob Chance

FYI...Al Ferrara was dropped at some point because Shoeless drafted him in 1968 to a 3-year contract. He will be available to the expansion GMs, unless someone can use his .903 OPS against LHP this year?!?!

[Sockeye]

Protected (14 players)

SP: Dave McNally (22.00) (signed 1968, FA after 1972)
SP: Gaylord Perry (27.50) (signed 1968, FA after 1972)
SP: Mike Cuellar (4.75) (traded for 1968, 1961 draftee)
SP: Tom Hall (.75) (drafted 1968, FA after 1973)
SP: Andy Messersmith (1.25) (traded for 1968, FA after 1973)
SP: Jim McAndrew (.50) (drafted 1968, leaves after 1972)
RP: Mudcat Grant (2.50) (drafted 1961)
RP: Rollie Fingers (.25) (drafted 1968, FA after 1973)
OF: Ralph Garr (.25) (drafted 1968, FA after 1973)
C: Ellie Rodriguez (.25) (drafted 1968, FA after 1973)
1B: Gail Hopkins (.25) (drafted 1968, FA after 1973)
1B/OF: Mike Hegan (.25) (signed 1967, FA after 1969)
OF: Brant Alyea (.75) (drafted 1965, FA after 1970)
OF: Jay Johnstone (1.00) (drafted 1966, FA after 1971)

Expansion Eligible

OF: Willie Crawford (.75) (drafted 1964, leaves after 1969)
OF: Ron Swoboda (1.50) (traded for 1968, FA after 1970)
OF: Andy Kosco (.50) (signed 1968, FA after 1969)
1B: Dalton Jones (.75) (drafted 1964, FA after 1969)
3B: Bobby Cox (.50) (drafted 1968, leaves after 1969)
OF: Norm Miller (.50) (signed 1967, FA after 1969)
RP: Dick Ellsworth (4.50) (drafted 1961)
SP: Milt Pappas (4.75) (signed 1968, FA after 1970)
RP: Diego Segui (12.75) (signed 1968, FA after 1971)
RP: Rich Nye (1.00) (drafted 1966, leaves after 1970)
RP: Steve Kealey (.25) (drafted 1968, leaves after 1972)
OF: Jim Holt (.25) drafted 1968, FA after 1973)
OF: Andy Kosco (.50) (signed 1968, FA after 1969)
OF: Willie Smith (.50) (signed 1967, FA expires after 1969)
OF: Tommy Davis (.50) (signed 1968, FA after 1970)
C: Randy Hundley (1.25) (traded for 1968, FA after 1969)

Free Agents

1B: Bill White
2B: Cookie Rojas
3B: Max Alvis
SS: Hal Lanier
C: John Bateman
C: Bob Tillman
1B: Ed Kranepool
3B: Don Wert
OF: Jesus Alou

Retired

RP: Bill Kelso

[Erik Bedard]

I've got the Redbirds' first-round pick in 1969 (from the Maury Wills deal).

[Erik Bedard]

Expired contracts

Jimmy Wynn
Wally Bunker
Jose Santiago
Gene Alley

Retirements

Mickey Mantle
Larry Jackson
Bruce Look

Protected (subject to change)

Johnny Bench
Jim Northrup
Jim Perry
Mike McCormick
Bob Veale
Mark Belanger
John Hiller
Nolan Ryan
Ken Sanders
Mike Hedlund
Ken Henderson
Bob Watson
Steve Blass
Don Mincher

Available for Expansion Draft

Duffy Dyer (.25 1968)
Johnny Edwards (.25 1968-70)
Glenn Beckert (1.00 1965)
Ted Kubiak (.75 1967)
Rick Renick (.50 1968)
Wayne Comer (.25 1967)
Felipe Alou (5.00 1961)
Ted Uhlaender (1.00 1965)
Mike Torrez (.25 1967)
Lew Krausse (.75 1961)
Jim Nash (1.00 1966)
Jim Lonborg (2.00 1965)
Roy Face (2.25 1961)
Al Worthington (2.25 1961)
Tom Kelley (.50 1964)
Moe Drabowsky (1.75 1961)
Ed Sprague (.25 1968)
Stan Bahnsen (1.00 1966)
Lou Piniella (.25 1964)

[jterry619]

I am looking to trade one..perhaps two arms..from this group:

Catfish Hunter 1,250,000 1965
Phil Niekro 2,750,000 1964
Claude Osteen 11,250,000 1961
Don Sutton 3,000,000 1966
Rick Wise 1,750,000 1964

And of course Jim Palmer who I would consider moving for the right offer:

Jim Palmer 12,000,000 1965


Looking for starting position players...not role players...picks or a combination.

You can get contact me via private message or by personal email at
jterry619@msn.com

[leecemark]

According to my records the Angels own Hard Cider's 3rd rd pick in '69 and EB Gold Sox 4th rd pick in '69. Hard Cider's 3rd rd pick is listed as belonging to the Skipjacks. After going back and looking at the 67-68 offseason thread. The Skipjacks traded Hard Cider's pick to me during this past offseason. The complete deal was as follows.

- 3B Brooks Robinson (18.0, 64-68)
- 2nd round pick in '68 (JW Skipjacks)
- 3rd round pick in '69 (from Hard Cider)

to Sockeye's Angels for

- RP Don McMahon (10.0, 65-69)
- SP Ray Sadecki (9.25, 61)
- 1B/OF Ken Harrelson (1.0, 63-68)

The 4th rd pick from the Gold sox came to me in the first deal I pulled off after entering the league. Post #171 of the 1967 season thread. I quote "the Gold Sox send their fourth-round picks in 1968 and 1969 to the Angels for Steve Barber and the Angels' fifth-round pick in 1968."

--I took the info from what people had on their page in the roster thread. Everyone should try and keep that up to date.

[leecemark]

--Dan, you left out the most important part of your roster. You need to add a list of the players who will be available for the expansion draft.

[leecemark]

I don't recall dealing my 3rd rounder to Hard Cider. I know he has my 1st in 1969 and my 3rd in 1971 (I have his 3rd in 1970)...If my records are wrong, please let me know.

--Mac, the claim to Joe's thrid rounder this year cam off your roster page. Can you provided details of how it was acquired?

[mac195]

post #86 of the last off season thread:

HC's tough veteran 2nd baseman, Ron Hunt, will be moving to the Joes in exchange for their '69 3rd round pick. The departure of Hunt, who is mending nicely after his collision with Knight catcher Bill Freehan in the CKL championship series, will make room for up-and-comer Mike Andrews in the HC lineup.

[jkc32]

post #86 of the last off season thread:

HC's tough veteran 2nd baseman, Ron Hunt, will be moving to the Joes in exchange for their '69 3rd round pick. The departure of Hunt, who is mending nicely after his collision with Knight catcher Bill Freehan in the CKL championship series, will make room for up-and-comer Mike Andrews in the HC lineup.

That solved that...It's twue, it's twue.

[catcher24]

Originally Posted by mac195 View Post
post #86 of the last off season thread:

HC's tough veteran 2nd baseman, Ron Hunt, will be moving to the Joes in exchange for their '69 3rd round pick. The departure of Hunt, who is mending nicely after his collision with Knight catcher Bill Freehan in the CKL championship series, will make room for up-and-comer Mike Andrews in the HC lineup.

It may be true, but somewhat inaccurate. The Knights only WISH they had Bill Freehan at catcher.;) He was drafted a Legend, he's been a Legend every season, and he'll retire a LEGEND! Tim McCarver isn't bad, I'll say that, but I'm glad that Bill Freehan is a legend - in both senses.:)

[mac195]

I have three first round picks I might be willing to part with for high quality players if you have too many to protect. Site mail me if you have a deal in mind.

[Erik Bedard]

Added a list of eligible players for expansion, and made one change to my protected players (keeping Mark Belanger instead of Wayne Comer protected).

[Sockeye]

I have a few players having good seasons next year. If anyone can use one or more feel free to PM me.

Randy Hundley: C, .255/.334/.391/595 PA
Gail Hopkins: 1B, .265/.351/.381/100 OPS+
Andy Kosco: OF, .248/.282/.422/102 OPS+
Norm Miller: OF, .264/.348/.364/102 OPS+
Jay Johnstone: OF .270/.321/.381/102 OPS+
Willie Smith: OF, .246/.330/.441/104 OPS+
Brant Alyea: OF, .249/.341/.405/114 OPS+
Milt Pappas: P, 3.63/1.34/100 ERA+
Diego Segui: P, 3.35/1.32/108 ERA+

[jterry619]

14 man protected squad

Protected Players Salary
1 Lou Brock 8,000,000 1961
2 Don Kessinger 1,000,000 1964
3 Felix Millan 750,000 1966
4 Bobby Murcer 500,000 1965
5 Doug Rader 750,000 1967
6 Tony Oliva 22,000,000 1968-1971
7 Catfish Hunter 1,250,000 1965
8 Phil Niekro 2,750,000 1964
9 Claude Osteen 11,250,000 1961
10 Jim Palmer 12,000,000 1965
11 Don Sutton 3,000,000 1966
12 Rick Wise 1,750,000 1964
13 Wayne Granger 500,000 1968
14 Grant Jackson 750,000 1967

Total $66,250,000



Expansion Eligible

Player Salary
Johnny Briggs 1,750,000 1964
Pat Kelly 750,000 1967
Aurelio Rodriguez 750,000 1967
Ed Herrmann 500,000 1967
Jim Lefebrve 1,750,000 1965
Ollie Brown 1,250,000 1965
Joe Pepitone 8,750,000 1968-1971
Paul Popovich 500,000 1968-1969
Turk Farrell 2,500,000 1961
Dennis Higgins 1,000,000 1966
Cal Koonce 2,250,000 1963
Tony Pierce 750,000 1967
Phil Regan 2,500,000 1961
Ron Willis 1,000,000 1966
Jerry May 5,000,000 1968
Ken Berry 5,000,000 1968
Al McBean 500,000 1968
Dusty Baker 250,000 1968


Free Agents
Ricky Clark
Bud Harrelson
Rick Joseph
Bill Landis
Rich Rollins
Phil Roof
Russ Snyder
Jose Tartabull
Leon Wagner
Jon Warden
Fred Whitfield
John Wyatt
Joe Lahoud
Joe Hague
Tom Satriano
Marty Martinez
Bill Robinson
Jimmy Hall
John Buzhardt

[Erik Bedard]

The Gold Sox get a cheap bat in the middle of their lineup, acquiring Don Mincher from the Shoeless Joes for their second and third round picks (#31 and 47 overall).

Keepers/available will be updated to reflect.

[jkc32]

The Gold Sox get a cheap bat in the middle of their lineup, acquiring Don Mincher from the Shoeless Joes for their second and third round picks (#31 and 47 overall).

Keepers/available will be updated to reflect.

Shoeless confirms.

[jkc32]

14-Man Protected Squad
C: Chris Cannizzaro (750K, 1961)
1B: Bob Bailey (5.25M, 1968-70)
1B: Orlando Cepeda (1M, 1968-70)
2B: Ken Boswell (250K, 1967)
3B: Tony Perez (1.25M, 1964)
OF: Frank Howard (20.25M, 1966-70)
OF: Roy White (1.25M, 1965)
OF: Alex Johnson (1M, 1964)
OF: Al Oliver (750K, 1968)
P: Bob Gibson (12M, Franchise)
P: Steve Carlton (1.5M, 1965)
P: Fritz Peterson (1.5M, 1966)
P: Gary Nolan (1.25M, 1967)
P: Dick Bosman (1M, 1966)
14 players for 49.00M

Expansion Eligible
C: Joe Azcue (1.5M, 1961 draft)
C: Andy Etchebarren (500K, 1968-69)
1B: Donn Clendenon (2.5M, 1961 draft)
2B: Tommy Helms (1M, 1964 draft)
2B: Julian Javier (500K, 1968-69)
SS: Roberto Pena (2M, 1968-69)
OF: Curt Blefary (1.5M, 1965 draft)
OF: Mickey Stanley (1M, 1964 draft)
OF: Al Ferrera (500K, 1968-70)
OF: Cito Gaston (250K, 1967 draft)
P: Hoyt Wilhelm (11.25M, 1961 draft)
P: Dick Hall (4.75M, 1961 draft)
P: Ken Johnson (2.5M, 1961 draft)
P: Ray Washburn (2.25M, 1961 draft)
P: Jim Ray (750K, 1965 draft)
P: Dick Kelley (500K, 1964 draft)
P: Daryl Patterson (500K, 1968 draft)
P: Vicento Romo (500K, 1968 draft)

Free Agents
C: Duane Josephson
2B: Ron Hunt
OF: Willie Horton
OF: Rusty Staub
P: Denny McClain

[leecemark]

--The deadline for posting your protected list and expasnion eligible players is thsi Friday. Just over half our owners have got this up. Please make sure you do your own cutting and don't leave it up to me. We do need to give the expansion owners some time to scout the lists prior to the draft though.

[mac195]

Protected: (salaries updated for 1969)
C: Tom Haller (2.75M) '61
1B: Norm Cash (11M) '61
2B: Mike Andrews (1.5M) '66
SS: Fred Patek (500K) '68
OF: Frank Robinson (12M) franchise
OF: John Mayberry (250K) '68
OF-1B: Ron Fairly (2.5M) '61
OF: Merv Rettenmund (750K) '68
OF: Tommie Agee (5M) '68-'71 FA
SP: Ken Holtzman (1.25M) '65
SP: Steve Hargan (1M) '65
SP: Bob Moose (500K) '67
SP: Dick Selma (750K) '65
SP: Luke Walker (750K) '65

Expansion eligible:
C-1B: Jack Hiatt (750K) '64
2B: Bernie Allen (1.5M) '68-'70 FA
3B: Bill Sudakis (500K) '68
OF Johnny Calison (5M) '66-'69 FA
OF: Ted Savage (500K) '68-'70 FA
SP: Jim Hardin (750K) '67
SP: Pat Jarvis (1M) '66
SP: Jim Bunning (250K) '68-'70 FA
SP: Dick Hughes (1M) '66
SP: Lee Stange (2M) '61
SP: Larry Jaster (1.5M) '65
SP: Alan Foster (500K) '67
RP: Don McMahon (10.5M) '65-'69 FA
RP: Jerry Nyman (500K) '68
RP: Horacio Pina (500K) '68
RP: Cisco Carlos (750K) '67
RP: Pete Mikkelsen (250K) '68-'70 FA
RP: Steve Hamilton (2.5M) '61

Free Agents:
Class of '63
3B-OF: Dick Allen
SS: Larry Brown

Others:
C: Bob Barton
3B: Ed Charles
OF: Len Gabrielson
OF: Gates Brown
OF: Manny Jimenez
SP: Don Drysdale
SP: Jack Fisher

[buppers]

Do you need rosters posted here also?
I have mine on Roster page.

Ed

[catcher24]

Do you need rosters posted here also?
I have mine on Roster page.

Ed

Ed - It should be placed here as well, broken down into various sections:
1. Your fourteen protected players
2. Your expansion eligible players. This would be anyone who you still have under contract and are not protecting.
3. Players whose contracts have expires, either after six years or end of a previous FA contract, so are now free agents.
4. Retirees (if you wish).

This will put all of the expansion eligible players in one thread for the new owners to review.

[buppers]

1969 Protected List - 14 Players - 60.25 Salary

Boswell, Dave - 64 Draft - 1.250
Clarke, Horace - 65 Draft - 1.750
Fryman, Woody - 66 Draft - 1.750
Hendricks, Ellie - 68 Draft - .500
Johnson, Jerry - 68 Draft - .500
Jones, Cleon - 64 Draft - .750
Lemaster, Denny - 68raft - 2.500
Moore, Barry - 68 Draft - .250
Niekro, Joe - 67 Draft - .750
Pinson, Vada - 61 Draft - 11.750
Stargell, Willie - 67 Free Agent - 23.000
Tovar, Cesar - 65 Draft - 1.750
Unser, Del - 68 Draft - .750
Robinson, Brooks - 68 Free Agent - 13.000

Free Agents - 10 Players
Priddy, Bob
Bosch, Don
Davis, Ron
Gibson, Josh
Kekich, Mike
Lock, Don
Marshall, Dave
Morehead, Dave
Pagliaroni, Jim
Stahl, Larry

Expansion Eligible - 14 Players

Cater, Danny - 64 Draft - 1.000
Fuentes, Tito - 67 Free Agent - .500
Gibbs, Jake - 67 Free Agent - .250
Gibson, Josh - 67 Draft - .750
Hannan, Jim - 68 Free Agent - 1.500
Hershberger, Mike - 67 Free Agent - 1.000
Humphreys, Bob - 67 Free Agent - .250
Oyler, Ray - 67 Free Agent - .250
Pizarro, Juan - 67 Free Agent - .250
Short, Chris - 61 Draft - 12.000
Spangler, Al - 67 Draft - .500
Spencer, Jim - 68 Draft - .500
Taylor, Tony - 61 Draft - 2.500
Torres, Hector - 68 Draft - .500

Retired - 1 Player

Roger Maris

Picks acquired:
Shoeless Joes 2nd rounder in 1970 (for Hoyt Wilhelm)
Ed
__________________

[leecemark]

--It does need to be posted here. It would be nice if it were here AND updated on the roster page. I'm going to want to consolidate a list for the expansion owners to review and prepare for the draft. It would actually be easier to take that from the Roster Thread since they will be intermixed with other posts in this one.
--I plan to start the expansion draft thread shortly after the deadline for posting your protected list this Friday. The first post will list the eligible players, broken down by team.

[catcher24]

Mark - I'll copy and paste what I have here to my roster thread as well. It will be at the very top, ahead of everything else, so that I can simply go in and delete it after the expansion draft without having to edit the rest of my thread. I don't want to mess up the way I have it set up - too much work to redo it twice (before and after the expansion draft)!:p

[sanket]

Do these players have a ratings number or do we have to look the player up to see their skills.

[BlueBlood]

Or win shares? That would help. This is going to take ages otherwise but it comes with the territory and is a one time event...

[leecemark]

--The players basic line will be listed in the roster reports that I will post as soon as the expansion draft thread goes up. For additional info or to see how they will do past 1969 you'd need to refer to baseball reference or your favorite research tool, whatever that may be. For the rookie draft you are entirely on your own to find which players debuted in 1969 and scout them. When we get the the free agent auctions I'll post a report of avialable free agents with their stats for 1969.

[leecemark]

--I thought I'd posted preliminary rosters at the start of this thread, but I guess it must have been the end of the 1968 season thread. These roster are up to date, so far as I know, based on info provided from the owners who have reported in so far this offseason. Expansion owners can get a head start on scouting. For everybody else this represents just about your last chance to ask for corrections if there is a player missing from your roster.

[catcher24]

Do these players have a ratings number or do we have to look the player up to see their skills.

As Mark mentions, the only ratings will be their season lines, as well as the ratings that Diamond Mind gives them for fielding, throwing, running, stealing, starter, relief which run poor, fair, average, good, excellent. The fielding ratings are the most complex. There will be two numbers (three for catchers and outfielders). The first is the overall rating, which again is the five level scale previously mentioned. There is also a number for expected errors for this player compared to the league average. Under 100 means the player makes less errors than the average fielder, and over 100 he makes more. Note that this is based on errors per 100 games. The third rating for catchers/outfielders is the throwing arm rating.

I suggest (as did Mark) going to b-r.com or a similar site. I use OPS+ to rate hitters, and I use ERA+, K/BB ratio and WHIP when rating pitchers. Also at b-r.com, you can get a list of all players who debuted in a given year - by far the easiest way to check out all the rookies for any year. Just choose a league, choose the year, and then find Debuts, about a third of the way down the top.

Hope this helps.

[jkc32]

As Mark mentions, the only ratings will be their season lines, as well as the ratings that Diamond Mind gives them for fielding, throwing, running, stealing, starter, relief which run poor, fair, average, good, excellent. The fielding ratings are the most complex. There will be two numbers (three for catchers and outfielders). The first is the overall rating, which again is the five level scale previously mentioned. There is also a number for expected errors for this player compared to the league average. Under 100 means the player makes less errors than the average fielder, and over 100 he makes more. Note that this is based on errors per 100 games. The third rating for catchers/outfielders is the throwing arm rating.

I suggest (as did Mark) going to b-r.com or a similar site. I use OPS+ to rate hitters, and I use ERA+, K/BB ratio and WHIP when rating pitchers. Also at b-r.com, you can get a list of all players who debuted in a given year - by far the easiest way to check out all the rookies for any year. Just choose a league, choose the year, and then find Debuts, about a third of the way down the top.

Hope this helps.

Very good suggestion on B-R. In addition to B-R, I also use Sean Lahman's Database to sort/sift/extract player data (I.E. using the available player list Mark will provide, query the database and extract (I put them into Excel) each season for all the available players). It saves you having to look up (and probably cut/paste) the data for each player one at a time from B-R. It can be found here:

http://baseball1.com/content/category/6/36/82/

[Erik Bedard]

I use the Lahman DB as well, though only to evaluate pitchers. In previous seasons, I've gotten a league average WHIP, then divided pWHIP/lgWHIP to get WHIP+. I haven't done that yet for 1969, but it helps detect fluke ERA+ marks (Tony Cloninger in my inaugural season, for example, had a 99 ERA+ but an excellent WHIP+), and can be very useful in getting steals or detecting reaches.

On a totally unrelated note, Bob Veale can be had. He makes a lot of money, but he's a horse with a 108 ERA+.

[jkc32]

Ron Reed (http://www.baseball-reference.com/r/reedro01.shtml) is looking for a home this season. With an ERA+ of 105, WHIP of 1.17, 160K, and a very reasonable salary of $0.50 (signed through 1971), he's a definate steal. Best draft pick in either 69. 70, or 71 gets his services.

[BlueBlood]

Ron Reed (http://www.baseball-reference.com/r/reedro01.shtml) is looking for a home this season. With an ERA+ of 105, WHIP of 1.17, 160K, and a very reasonable salary of $0.50 (signed through 1971), he's a definate steal. Best draft pick in either 69. 70, or 71 gets his services.

Hold onto him. Then he'll be expansion eligible! :)

Alright, I've done some preliminary looking about on three of the expansion eligible lists...we'll know how long every player's contract goes until and when they hit free agency, right?

[baseballPAP]

--Salaries have been updated for 1969

14 man protected squad
1B: Lee May (1.25M, 65 draft)
1B: Nate Colbert(500K, 66 draft)
2B: Rod Carew (1.5M, 67 draft)
3B: Don Money (250K, 68 draft)
OF: Carlos May (1 M, 68 draft)
OF: Paul Blair (1 M, 64 draft)
OF: Reggie Jackson (1 M, 67 draft)
OF: Jim Hickman (8 M, 66fa signed through '70)
P: Don Wilson (1.5M, 66 draft)
P: Nelson Briles (2 M, 65 draft)
P: Jack Billingham (500 K, 68 draft)
RP: Mike Marshall (500 K, 67 draft)
RP: Clay Carroll (1.25M, 64 draft)
RP: Darold Knowles (1 M, 65 draft)

14 players for 22.25M


Expansion eligible(* gets 250 K annual bump)
C: Jerry Grote (66FA, 6.75K signed through 69)
C: Frank Fernandez (67 draft, 500K, signed through 72)*
C: Hal King (67 draft, 500K, signed through 72)*
1B: Tony Horton (64 draft, 1.25M, signed through 69)*
1B: Deron Johnson (67FA, 250K signed through 69)
1B: Bob Robertson (67 draft, 250K, signed through 72)*
2B: Bobby Knoop (64 draft, 1.5M, signed through 69)
2B: Dave Nelson (68 draft, 500K, signed through 73)*
3B: Joe Foy (66 draft, 1.5M, signed through 71)*
SS: Dennis Menke(68 FA, 14 M signed through 70)
SS: Gene Michael(67 trade, 500K, signed through 71)*
SS: Maury Wills(68 trade, 7.75M, signed through 69)
LF: Manny Mota (68FA, 1.75M signed through 71)
CF: Matty Alou (66 trade, 13.5 M signed though 69)
SP: Ray Culp (66 FA, 12.75M signed through 70)
SP: Tom Phoebus (66 draft, 1 M, signed through 71)*
SP: Rudy May (65 draft, 1 M, signed through 70)*
SP: Chuck Dobson (66 draft, 1.5 M, signed through 71)*
SP: Jim Maloney (61 draft, 8.5M, signed indefinitely)*
RP: Ramon Hernandez (67 draft, 500K, signed through 72)* uncarded
P: Tom Murphy (68 draft, 500K, signed through 73)*
P: Fred Talbot (67 FA, signed for 250K through 69)

Free Agents/non-tenders
Mickey Lolich
Claude Raymond
Sonny Jackson
Bob Johnson

[buppers]

I use the Lahman DB as well, though only to evaluate pitchers. .

Does anybody else use National Pastime Almanac?


http://nationalpastimealmanac.com/

Ed

[jkc32]

Hold onto him. Then he'll be expansion eligible! :)


...says the spider to the fly!

I suspect he'll go pretty early if he ends up being expansion eligible. I sure wish I had the room to keep him.

[catcher24]

Hold onto him. Then he'll be expansion eligible! :)

Alright, I've done some preliminary looking about on three of the expansion eligible lists...we'll know how long every player's contract goes until and when they hit free agency, right?

In my expansion eligible list, I have listed the year through which all eligible players are signed. I don't think everyone did it that way, but figure anyone on a free agent contract, the contract will expire after the number of years listed (and hopefully at least the year of signing and length of contract is given). For anyone signed as a rookie, just add six years to the year signed, for example a player signed in 1964 will be a FA after the 1969 season; if signed in 1965, FA after the 1970 season, and so on.

If you have a question about a specific player, you could post it (and of course tip your hand to the other expansion owners), or PM the player's owner.

[catcher24]

Incidentally Mark, have all of the new teams picked their divisions? If they did I missed it somehow. Once we have the league names set, I can start updating the website, but I need to know who goes where of the new owners.

[leecemark]

--Blueblood was the only one who had a choice of division as one of his option and he is in the new Chadwick Division. The White Rage are in the Johnson, the Thunder in the Hulbert and the Wranglers in the Cartwright. The Brawlers option actually may have been better than he thinks. Not only are there no playoff teams from last year in that division, but no teams that had a winning record. The Angels and Gamblers both should be on the upswing though and the Shoeless Joes I think would be a contender in any division. JKC definately has his best team to date coming up for 1969.

[-Kyle-]

Are we having DH's next year?

[leecemark]

--Yes we are.

[BlueBlood]

Tentative date for expansion draft? Just need to know when I have to organize my information by.

[leecemark]

--A week from tomorrow.

[BlueBlood]

Alright. I'll be fully prepared to greatly weaken all 12 non-expansion teams. :highfive:

[-Kyle-]

As soon as I can make a trade, my expansion roster will be finalized.

Trying to juggle this, babysitting my cousin, and AP Exam of US History tomorrow.

:hp

[catcher24]

As soon as I can make a trade, my expansion roster will be finalized.

Trying to juggle this, babysitting my cousin, and AP Exam of US History tomorrow.

:hp

Study for that exam. Better to be a bit late posting your rosters than to fail a class! I bet I sound like your parents now, Kyle.:)

[Erik Bedard]

I can tell you right now, I won't have much, if any, free time next week. My AP exam is next Thursday, and my parents will be pretty upset if I'm "wasting my time" when I'm supposed to be studying.

[catcher24]

--Blueblood was the only one who had a choice of division as one of his option and he is in the new Chadwick Division. The White Rage are in the Johnson, the Thunder in the Hulbert and the Wranglers in the Cartwright. The Brawlers option actually may have been better than he thinks. Not only are there no playoff teams from last year in that division, but no teams that had a winning record. The Angels and Gamblers both should be on the upswing though and the Shoeless Joes I think would be a contender in any division. JKC definately has his best team to date coming up for 1969.

OK, thanks Mark. Is it definite that the Hulbert will be going into a league with the new division, or is that yet to be determined? I know you had brought up the subject of division alignments, but then it seemed to have just gotten placed on the back burner. For the record, I'm fine to be in a league with the new division, but I don't know how all the other owners feel. I think you also mentioned somewhere before that you'd like the Johnson and Cartwright to be in the same league to maintain your rivalry with the Hard Cider.

[-Kyle-]

Study for that exam. Better to be a bit late posting your rosters than to fail a class! I bet I sound like your parents now, Kyle.:)
Ugh I know.

I can tell you right now, I won't have much, if any, free time next week. My AP exam is next Thursday, and my parents will be pretty upset if I'm "wasting my time" when I'm supposed to be studying.

I think it depends on what AP you are taking, but for US History all the info is there, you won't remember any huge new concepts by restudying all of it. The most efficient way to study is practice the test. My SS teacher gave us a final in close similarity to AP Exam in March, so I feel somewhat confident going into it.

[J W]

Protected List
LF Carl Yazstremski (12.0)*
C Joe Torre (11.0)
3B Ken McMullen (8.75) $68-70
2B Davey Johnson (2.25) #65
1B Boog Powell (5.5)
OF Mack Jones (1.5)
C Dick Dietz (1.5) #66
RHP Joe Horlen (5.5)
LHP Sam McDowell (3.0)
RHP Earl Wilson (2.25)
RHP Blue Moon Odom (.75) #64
3B Graig Nettles (.5) #67
OF Bobby Tolan (.5) #65
C Ray Fosse (.25) #67
----------------------------------------
Running Salary (14 players) = 55.25 million

Unprotected List
CF Curt Flood (7.75)
RHP Dean Chance (6.75)
LHP Pete Richert (5.25) $67-70
RHP Bob Miller (2.5)
1B Ken Harrelson (1.0)
RF Rick Reichardt (1.0) #64
1B George Scott (1.0) #66
LHP Paul Lindblad (.75) #65
RHP Cecil Upshaw (.75) #67
IF Dick Schofield (.5) $68-69
LHP Danny Coombs (.25) $68-70
1B Mike Fiore (.25) #68
RHP Danny Frisella (.25) #67
SS Jerry Kenney (.25) #67
OF Joe Keough (.25) #68
RHP Dave Leonhard (.25) #67
OF Hal McRae (.25) #68
C George Mitterwald (.25) #66
OF Bubba Morton (.25) $68-69
RHP Frank Reberger (.25) #68

Retired / Free Agents
C Pat Corrales
OF Tito Francona
RHP Dave Giusti
3B Ron Hansen
SS Leon McFadden
RHP Frank Linzy #63 - rights
LHP Mel Nelson
LHP Ray Sadecki

Released
SS Tom Tresh

--------------------------------------
Total Salary (34 players) = 85.00 million

[leecemark]

--JW, no players may be released until after the expansion draft. Tresh will remain on your roster as an expansion eligible player. If he isn't picked the non-tender period will be open after the expansion draft.

[Erik Bedard]

I think it depends on what AP you are taking, but for US History all the info is there, you won't remember any huge new concepts by restudying all of it. The most efficient way to study is practice the test. My SS teacher gave us a final in close similarity to AP Exam in March, so I feel somewhat confident going into it.

World History. It's awful. I tried taking last year's test, and I got a 47% on the multiple choice. And essays aren't my strong suit. My French teacher, though, thinks it's easy, that we just have to memorize it. Yeah, just memorize everything that ever happened and you'll be fine.

[leecemark]

--This is what I've got so far. Diablos have yet to submit and the Gamblers are still a work in progress. I'll be starting the expansion draft thread shortly after midnight EST tonight so please let me know if you have any changes you want to make before that. I'll allow changes til midnight Monday after the thread is up for trades and last minute changes of heart, but these should be mostly complete by tonight to allow the expansion owners a full week to scout.

--The midnight deadline on Monday will be a hard one. No players may be added to your protected list after that point. Trades of protected players would still be permitted, but if the trade takes you over the limit you'd need to expose somebody else. If it takes you under then you'd simply have a shorter protected list. So if you have a move to make get it done this weekend.


Knights Expansion Roster
14 man protected squad
3B: Sal Bando (2M. 1966 draft)
CF: Willie Mays (12m, franchise player)
LF: Billy Williams (13M, 61 draft, trade with Redbirds)
RF: Bobby Bonds (1.25M, 68 draft/trade)
SS: Leo Cardenas (3.75m, 61 draft)
1B: Mike Epstein (1M, 66 draft)
SP: Juan Marichal (11.75M, 61 draft/trade with Pirates)
SP: Larry Dierker (1.25M, 64 draft)
CL: Eddie Watt (1.25M, 1965 draft/trade)
RP: Casey Cox (1.5M, 66 draft)
RP: Tug McGraw (500K, 65 draft)
SP: Jim Rooker (250K, 68 draft)
SP: Jim McGlothlin (500K, 65 draft)
C: Manny Sanguillen (500K, 67 draft)
14 players for 52.75M


Expansion eligible
C: Tim McCarver (2.25M, 61 draft)
1B: Wes Parker (1M, 64 draft)
2B: Dick McAuliffe (5M, 61 draft)
SS: Jim Fregosi (22M, FA 67-69)
RF: Adolpho Phillips (1M, 64 draft)
OF: Lee Maye (2M, 61 draft)
C: Don Pavletich (1.25M, 61 draft/trade with Hard Cider)
SP: Sonny Seibert (3m, 64 draft)
LHSU: Hank Aguirre (3M, 61 draft/trade with Redbirds)
RP Jim Roland (250K, FA67-69)
RHSU John Purdin (750K, 64 draft)
CL: Bobby Bolin (2.75M, 61 draft)
RP: Fred Lasher (250K, FA67-69)
RHSU: Jack Aker (1.25M, 64 draft)
SP: Ron Bryant (250K, 67 draft)
RP: Ken Brett (250K, 67 draft)
SP: Gary Ross (250K, 68 draft)
SP: Gary Peters (250K, FA68-70)
OF: Carl Taylor (250K, 69 draft)
RP: Dave Baldwin (1M, 1966 draft/trade with Legends
OF: Mike Lum (250K, 67 draft)
1B: Rich Reese (500K, 64 draft)
C: Ken Suarez (500K, 66 draft)

Free Agents
Tommy John
Camilio Pascaul
Elston Howard
Cloverleafs Roster

14 man protected squad

Protected Players Salary
1 Lou Brock 8,000,000 1961
2 Don Kessinger 1,000,000 1964
3 Felix Millan 750,000 1966
4 Bobby Murcer 500,000 1965
5 Doug Rader 750,000 1967
6 Tony Oliva 22,000,000 1968-1971
7 Catfish Hunter 1,250,000 1965
8 Phil Niekro 2,750,000 1964
10 Jim Palmer 12,000,000 1965
11 Don Sutton 3,000,000 1966
12 Rick Wise 1,750,000 1964
13 Wayne Granger 500,000 1968
14 Grant Jackson 750,000 1967
9 Dusty Baker 250,000 1968 D


Total $66,250,000



Expansion Eligible

Player Salary
Johnny Briggs 1,750,000 1964 D
Pat Kelly 750,000 1967 D
Aurelio Rodriguez 750,000 1967 D
Ed Herrmann 500,000 1967 D
Jim Lefebrve 1,750,000 1965 D
Ollie Brown 1,250,000 1965 D
Joe Pepitone 8,750,000 1968-1971 FA
Paul Popovich 500,000 1968-1969 FA
Turk Farrell 2,500,000 1961 D
Dennis Higgins 1,000,000 1966 D
Tony Pierce 750,000 1967 D
Phil Regan 2,500,000 1961 D
Ron Willis 1,000,000 1966 D
Jerry May 5,000,000 1968-9 FA
Ken Berry 5,000,000 1968-69 FA
Al McBean 500,000 1968-?


Free Agents
Ricky Clark
Bud Harrelson
Rick Joseph
Cal Koonce

Bill Landis
Rich Rollins
Phil Roof
Russ Snyder
Jose Tartabull
Leon Wagner
Jon Warden
Fred Whitfield
John Wyatt
Joe Lahoud
Joe Hague
Tom Satriano
Marty Martinez
Bill Robinson
Jimmy Hall
John Buzhardt
Angels Expansion Roster
Protected (14 players)

SP: Dave McNally (22.00) (signed 1968, FA after 1972)
SP: Gaylord Perry (27.50) (signed 1968, FA after 1972)
SP: Mike Cuellar (4.75) (traded for 1968, 1961 draftee)
SP: Tom Hall (.75) (drafted 1968, FA after 1973)
SP: Andy Messersmith (1.25) (traded for 1968, FA after 1973)
SP: Jim McAndrew (.50) (drafted 1968, leaves after 1972)
RP: Mudcat Grant (2.50) (drafted 1961)
RP: Rollie Fingers (.25) (drafted 1968, FA after 1973)
OF: Ralph Garr (.25) (drafted 1968, FA after 1973)
C: Ellie Rodriguez (.25) (drafted 1968, FA after 1973)
1B: Gail Hopkins (.25) (drafted 1968, FA after 1973)
1B/OF: Mike Hegan (.25) (signed 1967, FA after 1969)
OF: Brant Alyea (.75) (drafted 1965, FA after 1970)
OF: Jay Johnstone (1.00) (drafted 1966, FA after 1971)

Expansion Eligible

OF: Willie Crawford (.75) (drafted 1964, leaves after 1969)
OF: Ron Swoboda (1.50) (traded for 1968, FA after 1970)
OF: Andy Kosco (.50) (signed 1968, FA after 1969)
1B: Dalton Jones (.75) (drafted 1964, FA after 1969)
3B: Bobby Cox (.50) (drafted 1968)
OF: Norm Miller (.50) (signed 1967, FA after 1969)
RP: Dick Ellsworth (4.50) (drafted 1961)
SP: Milt Pappas (4.75) (signed 1968, FA after 1970)
RP: Diego Segui (12.75) (signed 1968, FA after 1971)
RP: Rich Nye (1.00) (drafted 1966)
RP: Steve Kealey (.25) (drafted 1968)
OF: Jim Holt (.25) drafted 1968)
OF: Andy Kosco (.50) (signed 1968, FA after 1969)
OF: Willie Smith (.50) (signed 1967, FA expires after 1969)
OF: Tommy Davis (.50) (signed 1968, FA after 1970)
C: Randy Hundley (1.25) (traded for 1968, FA after 1969)

Free Agents

1B: Bill White
2B: Cookie Rojas
3B: Max Alvis
SS: Hal Lanier
C: John Bateman
C: Bob Tillman
1B: Ed Kranepool
3B: Don Wert
OF: Jesus Alou

Badgers Expansion Roster
1969 Protected List - 14 Players - 60.25 Salary

Boswell, Dave - 64 Draft - 1.250
Clarke, Horace - 65 Draft - 1.750
Fryman, Woody - 66 Draft - 1.750
Hendricks, Ellie - 68 Draft - .500
Johnson, Jerry - 68 Draft - .500
Jones, Cleon - 64 Draft - .750
Lemaster, Denny - 68raft - 2.500
Moore, Barry - 68 Draft - .250
Niekro, Joe - 67 Draft - .750
Pinson, Vada - 61 Draft - 11.750
Stargell, Willie - 67 Free Agent - 23.000
Tovar, Cesar - 65 Draft - 1.750
Unser, Del - 68 Draft - .750
Robinson, Brooks - 68 Free Agent - 13.000

Free Agents - 10 Players
Priddy, Bob
Bosch, Don
Davis, Ron
Gibson, Josh
Kekich, Mike
Lock, Don
Marshall, Dave
Morehead, Dave
Pagliaroni, Jim
Stahl, Larry

Expansion Eligible - 14 Players

Cater, Danny - 64 Draft - 1.000
Fuentes, Tito - 67 Free Agent - .500
Gibbs, Jake - 67 Free Agent - .250
Gibson, Josh - 67 Draft - .750
Hannan, Jim - 68 Free Agent - 1.500
Hershberger, Mike - 67 Free Agent - 1.000
Humphreys, Bob - 67 Free Agent - .250
Oyler, Ray - 67 Free Agent - .250
Pizarro, Juan - 67 Free Agent - .250
Short, Chris - 61 Draft - 12.000
Spangler, Al - 67 Draft - .500
Spencer, Jim - 68 Draft - .500
Taylor, Tony - 61 Draft - 2.500
Torres, Hector - 68 Draft - .500
Lew's Legends

EXPANSION DRAFT INFORMATION

14 Protected Players
C: Bill Freehan - 1961 draft, 5M, YTY
1B: Willie McCovey - 1961 draft/trade, 11M, YTY
2B: Joe Morgan - 1968 FA - 5 years, 10.5M, thru 1972
3B: Ron Santo - 1961 draft, 12M, Franchise player
3B: Richie Hebner - 1968 draft, 1M, thru 1973
OF: Reggie Smith - 1966 draft, 2.5M, thru 1971
OF: Rick Monday - 1966 draft, 2.5M, thru 1971
OF: Hank Aaron - 1961 draft/trade, 12.25M, YTY
SP: Tom Seaver - 1967 draft, 1.5M, thru 1972
SP: Fergie Jenkins - 1965 draft, 2.75M, thru 1970
SP: Bill Hands - 1965 draft, 2.75M, thru 1970
SP: Dock Ellis - 1968 draft, 1M, thru 1973
RP: Sparky Lyle - 1967 draft, 1.25M, thru 1972
RP: Lindy McDaniel - 1961 draft, 3M, YTY

Expansion Draft Eligible
C: Duke Sims - 1964 draft, 1M, thru 1969
1B: Mike Jorgenson - 1968 draft, 250K - bump 1971, thru 1973
2B: Dick Green - 1967 FA - 3 years, 1.75M, thru 1969
SS: Bert Campaneris - 1964 draft/trade, 1.75M, thru 1969
SS: Ed Brinkman - 1968 FA - 3 years, 250K, thru 1970
OF: Joe Rudi - 1967 draft, 250K - bump 1970, thru 1972
OF: Dave May - 1967 draft, 250K - bump 1970, thru 1972
OF: Amos Otis - 1967 draft, 500K - bump 1970, thru 1972
OF: Tommie Harper - 1968 FA - 4 years, 6M, thru 1971
OF: Art Shamsky - 1965 draft, 1.75M, thru 1970
OF: Ed Stroud - 1968 FA - 3 years, 250K, thru 1970
SP: Luis Tiant - 1964 draft/trade, 3.5M, thru 1969
SP: Al Downing - 1961 draft, 2.25M, YTY
RP: Ted Abernathy - 1961 draft, 2M, YTY
RP: Bob Locker - 1965 draft, 1.75M, thru 1970
RP: Ron Kline - 1961 draft, 2.75M, YTY
RP: Roger Nelson - 1967 draft, 500K - bump 1970, thru 1972
RP: John Cumberland - 1968 draft, 250K - bump 1971, thru 1973
RP: Tom Burgmeier - 1968 draft, 250K - bump 1971, thru 1973
RP: Fred Beene - 1968 draft, 250K - bump 1971, thru 1973

Free Agents - Contracts Expired
C: Jim French
2B: Don Buford
SP: Jerry Arrigo
SP: Al Jackson
RP: John Morris
Mac's Hard Cider

Protected (salaries updated for 1969)
C: Tom Haller (2.75M) '61
1B: Norm Cash (11M) '61
2B: Mike Andrews (1.5M) '66
SS: Fred Patek (500K) '68
OF: Frank Robinson (12M) franchise
OF: John Mayberry (250K) '68
OF-1B: Ron Fairly (2.5M) '61
OF: Merv Rettenmund (750K) '68
OF: Tommie Agee (5M) '68-'71 FA
SP: Ken Holtzman (1.25M) '65
SP: Bob Moose (500K) '67
SP: Dick Selma (750K) '65
SP: Luke Walker (750K) '65
SP Claude Osteen 11,250,000 1961

Expansion eligible
SP: Steve Hargan (1M) '65
C-1B: Jack Hiatt (750K) '64
2B: Bernie Allen (1.5M) '68-'70 FA
3B: Bill Sudakis (500K) '68
OF Johnny Calison (5M) '66-'69 FA
OF: Ted Savage (500K) '68-'70 FA
SP: Jim Hardin (750K) '67
SP: Pat Jarvis (1M) '66
SP: Jim Bunning (250K) '68-'70 FA
SP: Dick Hughes (1M) '66
SP: Lee Stange (2M) '61
SP: Larry Jaster (1.5M) '65
SP: Alan Foster (500K) '67
RP: Don McMahon (10.5M) '65-'69 FA
RP: Jerry Nyman (500K) '68
RP: Horacio Pina (500K) '68
RP: Cisco Carlos (750K) '67
RP: Pete Mikkelsen (250K) '68-'70 FA
RP: Steve Hamilton (2.5M) '61

Class of '63
3B-OF: Dick Allen
SS: Larry Brown

Other free agents:
C: Bob Barton
3B: Ed Charles
OF: Len Gabrielson
OF: Gates Brown
OF: Manny Jimenez
SP: Don Drysdale
SP: Jack Fisher

Skipjacks Expansion Roster

Protected List
LF Carl Yazstremski (12.0)*
C Joe Torre (11.0)
3B Ken McMullen (8.75) $68-70
2B Davey Johnson (2.25) #65
1B Boog Powell (5.5)
OF Mack Jones (1.5)
C Dick Dietz (1.5) #66
RHP Joe Horlen (5.5)
LHP Sam McDowell (3.0)
RHP Earl Wilson (2.25)
RHP Blue Moon Odom (.75) #64
3B Graig Nettles (.5) #67
OF Bobby Tolan (.5) #65
C Ray Fosse (.25) #67
----------------------------------------
Running Salary (14 players) = 55.25 million

Unprotected List
CF Curt Flood (7.75)
RHP Dean Chance (6.75)
LHP Pete Richert (5.25) $67-70
RHP Bob Miller (2.5)
1B Ken Harrelson (1.0)
RF Rick Reichardt (1.0) #64
1B George Scott (1.0) #66
LHP Paul Lindblad (.75) #65
RHP Cecil Upshaw (.75) #67
IF Dick Schofield (.5) $68-69
LHP Danny Coombs (.25) $68-70
1B Mike Fiore (.25) #68
RHP Danny Frisella (.25) #67
SS Jerry Kenney (.25) #67
OF Joe Keough (.25) #68
RHP Dave Leonhard (.25) #67
OF Hal McRae (.25) #68
C George Mitterwald (.25) #66
OF Bubba Morton (.25) $68-69
RHP Frank Reberger (.25) #68
SS Tom Tresh (4.0) #61

Retired

Free Agents
C Pat Corrales
OF Tito Francona
RHP Dave Giusti
3B Ron Hansen
SS Leon McFadden
RHP Frank Linzy #63
LHP Mel Nelson
LHP Ray Sadecki
Gamblers Expansion Roster
(work in progress)
14 Protected
LF/3B/1B Harmon Killebrew (12m, Franchise Player)
CF Willie Davis (7.5m 67-70)
LHP Jim Kaat (8.75m, 61 Draft, Trade with Defunct Nails)
LHP Ron Perranoski (8.00m 61 Draft, Trade with Gold Sox)
RHP Mel Stottlemyre (3.50m, 64 Draft)
LHP Jerry Koosman (1.00m, 67 Draft)
C Ed Kirkpatrick (.25m 67-69)
RHP Marty Pattin (.50m, 68 Draft)
3B Bill Melton (.75m, 68 Draft)
SS Rico Petrocelli (1.50m, 63 Draft)
4 Extra Spots as of right now.

_Expansion Eligible__________________________
3B/1B Pete Ward (1.25m 68-69)
SS Sandy Alomar (.25m 67-69)
RHP Jim Britton (.25m 67-69)
C Paul Casanova (1.75m, 65 Draft)
RHP Gary Wagner (1.75m, 65 Draft)
RHP Gene Brabender (1.00m, 66 Draft)
RHP Gary Waslewski (.50m, 67 Draft)
RHP Bill Stoneman (.50m, 67 Draft)
SS/3B Eddie Leon (.25m, 68 Draft)
C Dick Billings (.25m, 68 Draft)
RHP Bruce Dal Canton (.25m, 67 Draft)
LF Danny Walton (.25m, 68 Draft)
RHP Mike Paul (.25m, 68 Draft)
1B Gary Holman (.25m 68 Draft)
RHP Jeff James (.25m 68 Draft)
2B John Donaldson (.50m, 66 Draft)
3B Hank Allen (.50m, 66 Draft)


Free Agents
2B Bill Mazeroski (.75m 68-68)
1B Tom McCraw (.25m 68-68)
LHP Steve Barber (.25m 68-68)
OF Vic Davalillo (.50m 67-68)
RHP Joe Sparma (.25m 68-68)
RHP Sammy Ellis (.25m 68-68)
C Dave Duncan (.25m 68-68)
2B Frank Quilici (.25m 68-68)
C Dave Adlesh (.25m, 66-68)
2b Marv Staehle (.25m (66-68)
OF Jose Cardenal (.75m, 63 Draft)
OF Rico Carty (2.50m, 63 Draft)
RHP Ron Herbel (1.50m, 63 Draft

Shoeless Keepers

14-Man Protected Squad
C: Chris Cannizzaro (750K, 1961)
1B: Bob Bailey (5.25M, 1968-70)
1B: Orlando Cepeda (1M, 1968-70)
2B: Ken Boswell (250K, 1967)
3B: Tony Perez (1.25M, 1964)
OF: Frank Howard (20.25M, 1966-70)
OF: Roy White (1.25M, 1965)
OF: Alex Johnson (1M, 1964)
OF: Al Oliver (750K, 1968)
P: Bob Gibson (12M, Franchise)
P: Steve Carlton (1.5M, 1965)
P: Fritz Peterson (1.5M, 1966)
P: Gary Nolan (1.25M, 1967)
P: Dick Bosman (1M, 1966)
14 players for 49.00M

Expansion Eligible
C: Joe Azcue (1.5M, 1961 draft)
C: Andy Etchebarren (500K, 1968-69)
1B: Donn Clendenon (2.5M, 1961 draft)
2B: Tommy Helms (1M, 1964 draft)
2B: Julian Javier (500K, 1968-69)
SS: Roberto Pena (2M, 1968-69)
OF: Curt Blefary (1.5M, 1965 draft)
OF: Mickey Stanley (1M, 1964 draft)
OF: Al Ferrera (500K, 1968-70)
OF: Cito Gaston (250K, 1967 draft)
OF: Larry Hisle (250K, 1968 draft)
P: Hoyt Wilhelm (11.25M, 1961 draft)
P: Dick Hall (4.75M, 1961 draft)
P: Ken Johnson (2.5M, 1961 draft)
P: Ray Washburn (2.25M, 1961 draft)
P: Jim Ray (750K, 1965 draft)
P: Dick Kelley (500K, 1964 draft)
P: Ron Reed (500K, 1966 draft)
P: Daryl Patterson (500K, 1968 draft)
P: Vicento Romo (500K, 1968 draft)

Free Agents
C: Duane Josephson
2B: Ron Hunt
OF: Willie Horton
OF: Rusty Staub
P: Denny McClain

Redbirds

--Salaries have been updated for 1969

14 man protected squad
1B: Lee May (1.25M, 65 draft)
1B: Nate Colbert(500K, 66 draft)
2B: Rod Carew (1.5M, 67 draft)
3B: Don Money (250K, 68 draft)
OF: Carlos May (1 M, 68 draft)
OF: Paul Blair (1 M, 64 draft)
OF: Reggie Jackson (1 M, 67 draft)
OF: Jim Hickman (8 M, 66fa signed through '70)
P: Don Wilson (1.5M, 66 draft)
P: Nelson Briles (2 M, 65 draft)
P: Jack Billingham (500 K, 68 draft)
RP: Mike Marshall (500 K, 67 draft)
RP: Clay Carroll (1.25M, 64 draft)
RP: Darold Knowles (1 M, 65 draft)

14 players for 22.25M


Expansion eligible(* gets 250 K annual bump)
C: Jerry Grote (66FA, 6.75K signed through 69)
C: Frank Fernandez (67 draft, 500K, signed through 72)*
C: Hal King (67 draft, 500K, signed through 72)*
1B: Tony Horton (64 draft, 1.25M, signed through 69)*
1B: Deron Johnson (67FA, 250K signed through 69)
1B: Bob Robertson (67 draft, 250K, signed through 72)*
2B: Bobby Knoop (64 draft, 1.5M, signed through 69)
2B: Dave Nelson (68 draft, 500K, signed through 73)*
3B: Joe Foy (66 draft, 1.5M, signed through 71)*
SS: Dennis Menke(68 FA, 14 M signed through 70)
SS: Gene Michael(67 trade, 500K, signed through 71)*
SS: Maury Wills(68 trade, 7.75M, signed through 69)
LF: Manny Mota (68FA, 1.75M signed through 71)
CF: Matty Alou (66 trade, 13.5 M signed though 69)
SP: Ray Culp (66 FA, 12.75M signed through 70)
SP: Tom Phoebus (66 draft, 1 M, signed through 71)*
SP: Rudy May (65 draft, 1 M, signed through 70)*
SP: Chuck Dobson (66 draft, 1.5 M, signed through 71)*
SP: Jim Maloney (61 draft, 8.5M, signed indefinitely)*
RP: Ramon Hernandez (67 draft, 500K, signed through 72)* uncarded
P: Tom Murphy (68 draft, 500K, signed through 73)*
P: Fred Talbot (67 FA, signed for 250K through 69)

Free Agents/non-tenders
Mickey Lolich
Claude Raymond
Sonny Jackson
Bob Johnson
Gold Sox Expansion Roster
Protected

Johnny Bench
Jim Northrup
Jim Perry
Mike McCormick
Bob Veale
Mark Belanger
John Hiller
Nolan Ryan
Ken Sanders
Mike Hedlund
Ken Henderson
Bob Watson
Steve Blass
Don Mincher

Available for Expansion Draft

Duffy Dyer (.25 1968)
Johnny Edwards (.25 1968-70)
Glenn Beckert (1.00 1965)
Ted Kubiak (.75 1967)
Rick Renick (.50 1968)
Wayne Comer (.25 1967)
Felipe Alou (5.00 1961)
Ted Uhlaender (1.00 1965)
Mike Torrez (.25 1967)
Lew Krausse (.75 1961)
Jim Nash (1.00 1966)
Jim Lonborg (2.00 1965)
Roy Face (2.25 1961)
Al Worthington (2.25 1961)
Tom Kelley (.50 1964)
Moe Drabowsky (1.75 1961)
Ed Sprague (.25 1968)
Stan Bahnsen (1.00 1966)
Lou Piniella (.25 1964)
Free Agents
Jimmy Wynn
Wally Bunker
Jose Santiago
Gene Alley

[leecemark]

OK, thanks Mark. Is it definite that the Hulbert will be going into a league with the new division, or is that yet to be determined? I know you had brought up the subject of division alignments, but then it seemed to have just gotten placed on the back burner. For the record, I'm fine to be in a league with the new division, but I don't know how all the other owners feel. I think you also mentioned somewhere before that you'd like the Johnson and Cartwright to be in the same league to maintain your rivalry with the Hard Cider.


--It will be Johnson/Cartwright and Hulbert/Chadwick.

[mac195]

The Hard Cider trade their 1969 first round pick to Birmingham for Claude Osteen and the Cloverleafs '69 2nd round pick. Jterry, if you would confirm...

[jterry619]

The Hard Cider trade their 1969 first round pick to Birmingham for Claude Osteen and the Cloverleafs '69 2nd round pick. Jterry, if you would confirm...

Cloverleafs confirm the trade

[mac195]

updated roster lists:

Protected: (salaries updated for 1969)
C: Tom Haller (2.75M) '61
1B: Norm Cash (11M) '61
2B: Mike Andrews (1.5M) '66
SS: Fred Patek (500K) '68
OF: Frank Robinson (12M) franchise
OF: John Mayberry (250K) '68
OF-1B: Ron Fairly (2.5M) '61
OF: Merv Rettenmund (750K) '68
OF: Tommie Agee (5M) '68-'71 FA
SP: Claude Osteen (11.25M) '61
SP: Ken Holtzman (1.25M) '65
SP: Bob Moose (500K) '67
SP: Dick Selma (750K) '65
SP: Luke Walker (750K) '65

Expansion eligible:
C-1B: Jack Hiatt (750K) '64
2B: Bernie Allen (1.5M) '68-'70 FA
3B: Bill Sudakis (500K) '68
OF Johnny Calison (5M) '66-'69 FA
OF: Ted Savage (500K) '68-'70 FA
SP: Jim Hardin (750K) '67
SP: Pat Jarvis (1M) '66
SP: Jim Bunning (250K) '68-'70 FA
SP: Dick Hughes (1M) '66
SP: Lee Stange (2M) '61
SP: Larry Jaster (1.5M) '65
SP: Alan Foster (500K) '67
SP: Steve Hargan (1M) '65
RP: Don McMahon (10.5M) '65-'69 FA
RP: Jerry Nyman (500K) '68
RP: Horacio Pina (500K) '68
RP: Cisco Carlos (750K) '67
RP: Pete Mikkelsen (250K) '68-'70 FA
RP: Steve Hamilton (2.5M) '61

Free Agents:
Class of '63
3B-OF: Dick Allen
SS: Larry Brown
Others:
C: Bob Barton
3B: Ed Charles
OF: Len Gabrielson
OF: Gates Brown
OF: Manny Jimenez
SP: Don Drysdale
SP: Jack Fisher

[jterry619]

As a result of trade of Osteen:

Cloverleafs Roster

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

14 man protected squad

Protected Players Salary
Birmingham Cloverleafs / 1969

Protected Players Salary Contract
1 Lou Brock 8,000,000 1961
2 Don Kessinger 1,000,000 1964
3 Felix Millan 750,000 1966
4 Bobby Murcer 500,000 1965
5 Doug Rader 75,000 Draft.Trade
6 Tony Oliva 22,000,000 1968-1971
7 Catfish Hunter 1,250,000 1965
8 Phil Niekro 2,750,000 1964
9 Jim Palmer 12,000,000 1965
10 Don Sutton 3,000,000 1966
11 Rick Wise 1,750,000 1964
12 Wayne Granger 275,000 1968
13 Grant Jackson 300,000 Draft.Trade
14 Dusty Baker 250,000 1968
55,250,000


Draft Eligible Salary Contract
Johnny Briggs 1,750,000 1964
Pat Kelly 750,000 1967
Aurelio Rodriguez 750,000 1967
Ed Herrmann 500,000 1967
Jim Lefebrve 1,750,000 1965
Ollie Brown 1,250,000 1965
Joe Pepitone 8,750,000 1968-1971
Paul Popovich 500,000 1968-1969
Turk Farrell 2,500,000 1961
Dennis Higgins 1,000,000 1966
Cal Koonce 2,250,000 1963
Tony Pierce 750,000 1967
Phil Regan 2,500,000 1961
Ron Willis 1,000,000 1966


Free Agents
Ricky Clark 500,000 1968
Bud Harrelson 500,000 1968
Rick Joseph 500,000 1968
Bill Landis 500,000 1968
Al McBean 500,000 1968
Rich Rollins 500,000 1968
Phil Roof 500,000 1968
Russ Snyder 500,000 1968
Jose Tartabull 500,000 1968
Leon Wagner 500,000 1968
Jon Warden 500,000 1968
Fred Whitfield 500,000 1968
John Wyatt 500,000 1968
Joe Lahoud 500,000 1968
Joe Hague 500,000 1968
Tom Satriano 5,000,000 1968
Jerry May 5,000,000 1968
Ken Berry 5,000,000 1968
Marty Martinez 2,250,000 1968
Bill Robinson 1,500,000 1968
Jimmy Hall 500,000 1968
John Buzhardt 500,000 1967-1968

[buppers]

World History. It's awful. Yeah, just memorize everything that ever happened and you'll be fine.


It was easier when I was in school, not as much history to remember :)

Ed

[jterry619]

is available for the right deal...which will of course entail picks but what better way to start a new franchise than with an ace pitcher who is just starting....

[BlueBlood]

Tempting, three great years of Palmer before he gets Free Agency....1969 is a bit low in innings numbers, but used in the right circumstances he'd be worth it. Unfortunately, giving up high-end picks is not going to happen from me. Having the first, third, fifth, etc. best player to emerge in 1969 or 1970 for six years is probably a better bargain than having a great pitcher for three when your team isn't exactly well built yet.

[Erik Bedard]

is available for the right deal...which will of course entail picks but what better way to start a new franchise than with an ace pitcher who is just starting....

Joe, Palmer is your franchise guy, meaning that you can keep him without a raise for as long as you want. Given what he'd command in free agency, that's a pretty nice deal on your end. Whoever trades for him, though, is getting just three years, so you're probably not going to get equal value of what you'd get if you kept him.

[jterry619]

Joe, Palmer is your franchise guy, meaning that you can keep him without a raise for as long as you want. Given what he'd command in free agency, that's a pretty nice deal on your end. Whoever trades for him, though, is getting just three years, so you're probably not going to get equal value of what you'd get if you kept him.


Fishing expedition.

[Erik Bedard]

Hey, if you can get what you feel is a reasonable deal for him, take it. I'm not trying to tell you not to deal him, just letting you know that in terms of pure value, you'd be costing yourself more in an equal swap than the other person would be gaining... if that makes any sense at all.

[leecemark]

--Its actually only 2 years of Palmer. He was a 1965 draftee and would be a free agent after 1970 for anybody but Joe. I'd love to have him, but doubt I'd be willing to give enough to get him. That said, if Casey Cox and a draft pick interests you, Joe, we could do business.

[jterry619]

--Its actually only 2 years of Palmer. He was a 1965 draftee and would be a free agent after 1970 for anybody but Joe. I'd love to have him, but doubt I'd be willing to give enough to get him. That said, if Casey Cox and a draft pick interests you, Joe, we could do business.


Palmer is probably not the right offer for expansion owners but Niekro, Hunter or Sutton might provide better value...any one of those guys could go as an alternative.

[-Kyle-]

Gamblers trade to the Shoeless Joe's

2nd and a 3rd round pick in 1970

for

Larry Hisle and Ron Reed.

When jkc's confirms, please add those players to my expansion player list.

[jkc32]

I believe Shoeless already owns your 1970 2nd round pick. Make it your 2nd in 1971 instead and it's still a deal.

[Sockeye]

A bold move here. He's on my protected list. A couple nice seasons from him in 69 (102 OPS+) & 71 (110 OPS+) Willing to keep him on my protected list til after the expansion draft. So basically you'll be getting a 13th protected player. Anyone with interest PM me. Looking for a draft pick or upgrades.

[-Kyle-]

I believe Shoeless already owns your 1970 2nd round pick. Make it your 2nd in 1971 instead and it's still a deal.
Yep, thats right.

[catcher24]

Joe - I have to agree with Dan on Palmer. His seasons during the 70s are fantastic, and on the FA market he would be a 20M+ guy easily. You can keep him for 12M per year - a virtual steal at the going free agent rates. For anyone to give you comparable value they would realistically have to give up at least two first rounders, and probably three. And since that owner would only get him for two more seasons, I don't see that happening. But if you really want to get rid of him, PM me. I'm sure we can work something out.:)

[-Kyle-]

World History. It's awful. I tried taking last year's test, and I got a 47% on the multiple choice. And essays aren't my strong suit. My French teacher, though, thinks it's easy, that we just have to memorize it. Yeah, just memorize everything that ever happened and you'll be fine.

Did you take a class preparing for it? I had a three term class for AP. Remembering every single fact never works...because its impossible. You need to get general ideas and a few important facts, and be able to logically guess-estimate answers for multiple choice. As for the essays, its all analyzing...I suck at it too.

We took a 'practice' ap exam as our class final. It greatly relieved the stress going into when I took the actual one. I was somewhat pleased because I ended up with a 4. I got 64/80 on the multiple choice, and 3, 5, 4 on the essays.

The best advice I can give you is take as many practice exams as you can. I bet Barnes and Noble has a bunch of AP books, use those as practice tests. Hopefully all of the stuff you learned over the term can still be found in your head.

[Erik Bedard]

How do you know you got a 4 already? I thought we didn't get the results until the summer.

I've been taking a class for it all year. I've been getting 1's on some of the test essays I've written (granted, my teacher is a really hard grader, but still). I'm not trying to memorize everything, just the overarching concepts, which is still hard enough in its own right. I've got a book that I'm using to review, which helps, but I'm still a little apprehensive. I'll probably do fine, but it's nerve-racking nonetheless. And we haven't gotten to WWI yet (the test is Thursday), so I have no idea on anything up to that point.

[jkc32]

I believe Shoeless already owns your 1970 2nd round pick. Make it your 2nd in 1971 instead and it's still a deal.

Yep, thats right.

Confirmed by Shoeless. The Gamblers get Larry Hisle and Ron Reed and Shoeless gets the Gamblers 3rd round pick in 1970 and 2nd round pick in 1971.

[-Kyle-]

How do you know you got a 4 already? I thought we didn't get the results until the summer.

I've been taking a class for it all year. I've been getting 1's on some of the test essays I've written (granted, my teacher is a really hard grader, but still). I'm not trying to memorize everything, just the overarching concepts, which is still hard enough in its own right. I've got a book that I'm using to review, which helps, but I'm still a little apprehensive. I'll probably do fine, but it's nerve-racking nonetheless. And we haven't gotten to WWI yet (the test is Thursday), so I have no idea on anything up to that point.

:faint: Your only at WWI? Crap that isn't good. You need to read the AP book about the concepts like crazy.

I got a four on our class final which was the exact same structure of the AP exam, which our teacher graded by college board standards. I took the actually exam yesterday.

I know its nerve-racking because its a really long test, but in the end if you do poorly it its no big deal (at least for me). ...Now the class final I took, I had never taken the test and I had to get a 4 to get a B+ on the final so I could end the year with a B-...if I didn't my parents would've castrated me.

[-Kyle-]

Gamblers have the 5th overall pick and the 21st overall pick...we were hoping to trade down to obtain a 9th-13th pick and a 11-16th pick. We can possibly add more variable to the circumstance. PM me whenever.

[jkc32]

The Shoeless Joe's want to trade future picks for your existing keepers. We are looking to acquire players with a decent 1969 season but will consider any player with a future, especially at SP, RP, OF, SS.

[jterry619]

Is there a thread out there showing the picks for the free agent and rookie drafts?

[leecemark]

--Attached are lists of all unsigned players and pitchers. You'll need to do your own checking to see which are going in the rookie draft though. Baseball reference is probably the best place to scout the rookies.

[Windy City Fan]

Rumor has it the Thunder is willing to deal almost any player they aquire in the expansion draft for future picks or young prospects.

[Erik Bedard]

Sources say the Gold Sox are looking to acquire a second baseman and a third baseman who can start in 1969.

[sanket]

--Attached are lists of all unsigned players and pitchers. You'll need to do your own checking to see which are going in the rookie draft though. Baseball reference is probably the best place to scout the rookies.

Are these players available in the expansion draft?

[jkc32]

Are these players available in the expansion draft?

Go to the "1969 Expansion Draft" thread to see who will be available in the expansion draft.

[Erik Bedard]

Mark, please remove Bob Veale (10.75, 68-70) from my protected list. Glenn Beckert will take his spot.

[Erik Bedard]

Veale is also on the trade block. His salary is fairly large, but he'll give you one solid season (108 ERA+) in '69. Not looking for much for him. A draft pick or two should suffice.

[sanket]

--Attached are lists of all unsigned players and pitchers. You'll need to do your own checking to see which are going in the rookie draft though. Baseball reference is probably the best place to scout the rookies.

What are these players for? Is there a period where we can sign these players?

[Sockeye]

The Angels and the Gamblers have agreed to a deal. Since it is still yet to be determined as to if the Angels have the 8th overall pick or the 13th overall pick in the upcoming draft, we worked out deals to cover both possible scenarios.

The Angels trade

Randy Hundley
1st rd (13th overall) in '69

for

1st rd (5th overall) in '69

or the Angels trade

Randy Hundley
1st rd (8th overall) in '69

for

1st rd (5th overall) in '69
4th rd (53rd overall) in '69

The Gamblers will confirm.

[leecemark]

What are these players for? Is there a period where we can sign these players?


--First will be the expansion draft, with only those under contract and not protected available. That would be the list at the top of the expansion draft thread. Next will be the rookie draft featuring all players who debuted in 1969. After that there will be an auction of free agent players. So yes you will a chance to sign some of them, but not for awhile (timeline is in post 1 of this thread) and only if you outbid any other interested owners.

[leecemark]

--Kyle you need to confirm before midnight EST tonight for this deal to be allowed. After that Hudley would be locked into the expansion pool.

[catcher24]

What are these players for? Is there a period where we can sign these players?

These are all of the players who:
1. Had FA contracts that expired after the 1968 season, so are free agents again.
2. Were rookies drafted in 1963 who have contracts expiring (first six years are up), so are also free agents.
3. Will be rookies in 1969.

There will be three signing periods, and various of these players will fall into each group:
1. Rookie draft. Any player who is making their initial appearance in a major league game in 1969 is eligible for the rookie draft. Many of the players on Mark's two lists fall into this group. I highly recommend going to baseball-reference.com and reviewing the players who debuted in 1969 to determine which are rookies.
2. Premium Free Agent auction. Mark will select 10 to 12 of the top free agents and they will be auctioned off at a real time auction, probably one week following the rookie draft - but the definite date will be set by Mark.
3. Free agent auction. Anyone not a rookie and not a PFA will be available in the regular free agent auction. This will start immediately following the PFA and lasts three to four days. During this auction, you can make a bid for any available player, for any amount. Bids get raised in 250K increments. For the majority of this auction, you can list as many players as you want in one post. For the final hour, only one player may be listed per post - and the final 20 minutes or so turns into a real frenzy!:nosleep:

Hope this helps.

[leecemark]

The Angels and the Gamblers have agreed to a deal. Since it is still yet to be determined as to if the Angels have the 8th overall pick or the 13th overall pick in the upcoming draft, we worked out deals to cover both possible scenarios.

The Angels trade

Randy Hundley
1st rd (13th overall) in '69

for

1st rd (5th overall) in '69

or the Angels trade

Randy Hundley
1st rd (8th overall) in '69

for

1st rd (5th overall) in '69
4th rd (53rd overall) in '69

The Gamblers will confirm.

--Actually they didn't. The deadline for trading non-protected players has now passed. The only trades that may be made until after the expansion draft are protected players for other protected players. Or, once the expansion draft is underway the expansion teams may trade drafted players for other players or picks (however they can not trade any picks of their own until the draft is complete).

[-Kyle-]

Doh. Come on. I agreed to this trade via pm earlier, and I even posted in another thread, so I was active.

[leecemark]

--Yes you were active, yet you didn't confirm - even when I sent you a PM. Midnight Monday was already an extention from the original Friday deadline. Sorry but you missed this one.

[Sockeye]

Mark,

Exceptions are made all the time concerning players exceeding the usage rules and such. Couldn't one be made in this instance? After all the deal was posted by me prior to the deadline and confirming the deal is basically just a formality so as to ensure the deal was actually agreed to by the other person and the information is correct. As long as the trade announcement was made prior to the deadline I fail to see the importance of the comfirmation before the deadline as well. The trade was finished and posted hours before the deadline. The Gamblers confirmed the deal. I don't think a few hours should undo the hard work we put into getting this deal done. So I respectfully ask that you reconsider your decision and make an exception in this case. Thank you.

[leecemark]

--That is a well put request, Garry - and you are the agreived party in this case. I'll get back to you this evening. If anyone objects to a waiver for this deal you've got til I get home from work sometime after midnight EST to say so.
--Kyle, assuming the exception is made I'll need to know who is coming off your protected list to make room for Hundley by that same deadline. Failure to do so would assure the exception being denied.

[-Kyle-]

No one is coming off my list for Hundley - he is expansion eligible. I am assuming no one takes him with the first 12 picks.

[Erik Bedard]

Don't be too sure about that... a decent everyday catcher (which Hundley is) can go really early. I haven't expansively checked out the expansion-eligible list, but I only know of one other full-time catcher.

[Sockeye]

--That is a well put request, Garry - and you are the agreived party in this case. I'll get back to you this evening. If anyone objects to a waiver for this deal you've got til I get home from work sometime after midnight EST to say so.
--Kyle, assuming the exception is made I'll need to know who is coming off your protected list to make room for Hundley by that same deadline. Failure to do so would assure the exception being denied.

Thank you. I appreciate your consideration and handling this in a just manner. Providing their are no objections from anyone Kyle's response should make easier since no changes will need to me made to the non/protected player pool.

[Sockeye]

Don't be too sure about that... a decent everyday catcher (which Hundley is) can go really early. I haven't expansively checked out the expansion-eligible list, but I only know of one other full-time catcher.

But with only one season left before free agency his value to an expansion team is greatly limited. At least that is the way I look at it. I myself would be concentrating on players with 3+ years left on their contract or until free agency. I'd be writing off the '69 season instead looking for players with decent seasons in '71 or beyond that could play a role on a possible contending team. I suspect most new owners will take this approach and thus protected mostly players with several years left with us.

[leecemark]

--Since Hundley won't be protected that makes it really easy. Trade okay. Moving down at least 3 and maybe 8 spots in the draft for a player you may not even get doesn't seem like a very good deal though.

[Erik Bedard]

But with only one season left before free agency his value to an expansion team is greatly limited. At least that is the way I look at it. I myself would be concentrating on players with 3+ years left on their contract or until free agency. I'd be writing off the '69 season instead looking for players with decent seasons in '71 or beyond that could play a role on a possible contending team. I suspect most new owners will take this approach and thus protected mostly players with several years left with us.

Catcher is perhaps the hardest position to fill, and for a team with absolutely nobody, Hundley could be invaluable even just for the one season, because of his ability to play every day. As I recall, Earl Battey went really early in 1964 -- and that was with a huge salary.

[-Kyle-]

Battey was much, much better than Hundley and had another good year in '65 as well.

[-Kyle-]

Plus, one of my players is going to be taken in the first round automatically. My best player by far is Bill Stoneman. He has two inning eater years in 69 and 70, and two good years (above 110 ERA+) in 71 and 72. He was drafted in 67 and only got one bump, so he will be cheap too. I will pull back Hundley after the first round.

[catcher24]

But with only one season left before free agency his value to an expansion team is greatly limited. At least that is the way I look at it. I myself would be concentrating on players with 3+ years left on their contract or until free agency. I'd be writing off the '69 season instead looking for players with decent seasons in '71 or beyond that could play a role on a possible contending team. I suspect most new owners will take this approach and thus protected mostly players with several years left with us.

Garry, you think so much like I do that it's actually scary!:eek: Your post states exactly what I'd be looking for and how I'd manage my team if I were starting now. And incidentally Mark is correct - your request for him to honor the trade was well thought out and well worded. Nice work!:applaud: I would've supported your position much sooner but never got online last night.

[catcher24]

Plus, one of my players is going to be taken in the first round automatically. My best player by far is Bill Stoneman. He has two inning eater years in 69 and 70, and two good years (above 110 ERA+) in 71 and 72. He was drafted in 67 and only got one bump, so he will be cheap too. I will pull back Hundley after the first round.

Just for kicks I went through everyone's roster and tried to pick out the player (sometimes listing two if I thought it was a tossup) who I thought each team would lose in the first round. Stoneman was the ONLY player I had listed for the Gamblers. I'd be very, very surprised if he isn't the one you lose. And if you hadn't posted the info on him, I wouldn't be mentioning it now.

[catcher24]

I posted this in the expansion thread, but figured it should've gone here instead.

Guys, just a straw poll, but I'm looking for some opinions. I've been working on changing the design of the web site on and off for a while. I have designed a new home page, but I have also done a slight update to the old to reflect the new league set up. If you get a chance, check them out quick and let me know which design you think works best. Most of the links on the old site will work fine; not as much on the new site will work, although some of the links will work.

BTW, from the new website link to the Legends home page. I hope to eventually have a similar page for each team, but this phase is just beginning. Any comments, ideas or suggestions will be taken under consideration.

New site (http://www.geocities.com/lougehrig24/newwebsite/)

Current site (http://www.geocities.com/lougehrig24/)

I will also have the Legends team page finished sometime tonight (I hope) so everyone can get a better idea of what I'm doing there. Another question, though, for everyone after they've checked out the Legends page: I'm torn between choosing just a team MVP and listing his stats, or using two columns and choosing a Top Batter and Top Pitcher, but without stats (not enough room). Which do you guys prefer?

And incidentally, I'll be giving each owner the opportunity to choose their yearly top player(s). All the season stats can be found in the encyclopedia and I'd much prefer to have the team owner do it than for me to do each one.

[J W]

Great job Lew - the new site looks quite professional! The only thing I miss is the team logos... maybe they can go on the team pages?

You're getting a lot of web design practice out of this :D

[jkc32]

Wife is out selling a house and I'm bored silly so I decided to list the Shoeless MVPs in preparation of team pages being built in the future.

The Shoeless Joe’s
Most Valuable Hitter/Pitcher
61 – Orlando Cepeda / Dick Hall
62 – Leon Wagner / Bob Gibson
63 – Maury Wills / Ken Johnson
64 – Maury Wills / Ken Johnson
65 – Curt Blefary / Jim Maloney
66 – Joe Pepitone / Gus Bell
67 – Frank Howard / Gary Nolan
68 – Willie Horton / Bob Gibson (by a whisker over Denny McLain)

Note: The 1961 & 1962 teams were called the “Nails Quakers” and were managed by someone else. I’ve listed who I would have chosen had I managed those teams. A strong case could be made for Frank Howard in 1962, but I liked Wagner's intangible numbers better (i.e. IW, GDP, OPS, etc.)

[catcher24]

Great job Lew - the new site looks quite professional! The only thing I miss is the team logos... maybe they can go on the team pages?

You're getting a lot of web design practice out of this :D

Jason - Check out the Legends home page by clicking on the Legends link in the left hand column of the new web site. I plan on the logos being in two locations: on the Teams page (menu bar across the top), where I'm planning on putting all the logos and they will link to each individual team page; the setup will be much like it is now. Also, each individual team page will have the team's logo, a photo of the team ballpark; and the DM diagram of the team ballpark.

Yeah, I've got a lot of web design practice. Along the way, I've had a lot of opportunity to practice my cuss words, too.:grouchy:laugh This is a long term project and I'm not sure when it will actually get done, but I'm working on it.

[catcher24]

Wife is out selling a house and I'm bored silly so I decided to list the Shoeless MVPs in preparation of team pages being built in the future.

The Shoeless Joe’s (Nails Quakers)
Most Valuable Hitter/Pitcher
61 – Orlando Cepeda / Dick Hall
62 – Leon Wagner / Bob Gibson
63 – Maury Wills / Ken Johnson
64 – Maury Wills / Ken Johnson
65 – Curt Blefary / Jim Maloney
66 – Joe Pepitone / Gus Bell
67 – Frank Howard / Gary Nolan
68 – Willie Horton / Bob Gibson (by a whisker over Denny McLain)

Note: The 1961 & 1962 teams were called the “Nails Quakers” and were managed by someone else. I’ve listed who I would have chosen had I managed those teams. A strong case could be made for Frank Howard in 1962, but I liked Wagner's intangible numbers better (i.e. IW, GDP, OPS, etc.)

Thanks, Joe. Since I have your logo as well as your choices, perhaps your team page will be next after the Legends.

[leecemark]

--For an old fogey like myself the familiar is always good, but the new one is pretty sharp. I'd rather see player and pitcher of the year without stats than just one with.

[J W]

Most Valuable Hitter/Pitcher
61 – Bob Allison / Don Lee
62 – Bob Allison / Don McMahon
63 – Carl Yastrzemski / Jim Bouton
64 – Bob Allison / Joe Horlen
65 – Carl Yastrzemski / Joe Horlen
66 – Tony Oliva / Sandy Koufax
67 – Carl Yastrzemski / Joe Horlen
68 – Carl Yastrzemski / Sam McDowell

I can't remember but one of those Yaz years I voted Joe Torre team MVP at the time. I believe everything else is right.

[catcher24]

Thanks for the input, guys.

[Erik Bedard]

While I wait for the expansion draft to go by, here's my player/pitcher of the year thing.

---Philadelphia Phillies---
'61: Johnny Callison/Art Mahaffey
'62: Johnny Callison/Art Mahaffey (very good season, actually, 17-11, 3.43 ERA)
'63: Johnny Callison/Jack Baldschun

---EB Gold Sox---
'64: Johnny Callison/Tony Cloninger
'65: Johnny Callison/John Buzhardt
'66: Clay Dalrymple/Jose Santiago (dark year in Gold Sox history)
'67: Tony Gonzalez/John Hiller
'68: Jimmy Wynn/Stan Bahnsen (very tough choice between Wynn/Mantle and Bahnsen/Nash)

[mac195]

The Hard Cider are looking to contend in '69, and want to trade for quality short-term talent. We are ready to help expansion owners who want to build for the future convert their expansion draft players into rookie draft picks. Sitemail me with any offers.

[buppers]

Badgers player/pitcher of the year

Starting in '61 when we were the Washington Senators

61 - Gene Woodling - Dick Donovan
62 - Jim King - Bennie Danirls
63 - Gene Woodling - Bennie Daniels

Then we became Papis Pirates

64 - Vada Pinson - Hoyt Wilhekm
65 - Vada Pinson - Juan Marichal
66 - Vada Pinson - Hoyt Wilhelm

Now we are Buppers Badgers

67 - Vada Pinson - Dave Boswell
68 - Vada Pinson - Dave Boswell

[J W]

The Skipjacks are also looking to contend in '69 and '70 and are willing to trade. We are particularly looking to bolster our pitching staff for 1970. Same deal as Mac.

[jkc32]

The Shoeless Joe's are in the market for any of the following:

3B with an OPS over .800 this season.
SS with an OPS over .725 this season.
SP who pitches at least 170IP this season and has a whip below 1.3.

Willing to offer picks in any upcoming draft.

[Windy City Fan]

The Thunder are very pleased with the expansion draft, having secured three solid starting pitchers, a shortstop, and an entire outfield. However, rumor has it that no one on the roster is considered untouchable and the Thunder is willing to trade for future picks and/or young talent.

Roster: http://baseball-fever.com/showpost.php?p=1191433&postcount=2

[leecemark]

--The Knights expect to contend this year as well. We don't have alot of needs, but a front line starting pitcher would be more than welcome. What we really need is somebody who will be capable of fronting the staff next year. Merely serviceable this year is okay.

[BlueBlood]

For those looking to be contenders this season, none of my picks are untouchable. However, you'd better be low on the ladder, winning last season's championship and having 16th pick in the rookie draft probably won't help me much more than a SP with three great years. I'm already beginning 1969 first-timers research though, so if having another first round pick can add up to slightly more in the longterm, I'll definitely be willing to wheel out some of these prime-cuts.

Windy City, I'd think of doing a trade with you for Tim McCarver. McCarver's not exactly a top-tier catcher that will help put some of the contenders over the edge. But a reliever certainly can. ;)

[mac195]

The Hard Cider are especially in need of quality players for '69 at SS, 3B, and in the bullpen. Let me know if you are ready to deal.

[-Kyle-]

Just saw BB's thread...he has all of the Gambler's taken players - so good luck to him this season! (unless your in my division :D)

[Windy City Fan]

What division will I be in and what teams will be there with me?

[catcher24]

Well, the Legends certainly expect to contend this season, and may I be so bold as to say we expect to repeat, at least as division champs (anything can happen in the playoffs!). I respect all of the teams in the division, including the newly formed Thunder. However, in this owner's humble and usually not highly respected opinion, I have the best talent, as well as the deepest talent, in the Hulbert Division.

That being said, I do have extra talent available. The following players are available for trade, and anyone who I pull back from this point forward is also available for trade. Some of these players could prove particularly valuable to a team looking to win this year or next.

Duke Sims, C - 121 OPS+, 399 PA, VG catcher
Tommy Harper, OF, 3B, 2B - Three years left on his contract. OPS+ of 89,146,105. Don't let that 89 in 1969 fool you - his OBP is 20 points above league average. He just has no power. Does have 73 stolen bases in 1969, and becomes a 30/30 player in 1970. Won't go cheap!
Joe Rudi, LF, 1B - Not much help in 1969, but OPS+ of 128, 97, 151 the next three.
Amos Otis, OF, 3B - Same as Rudi. Worthless in 69, but next three seasons are 114, 124, 128.
Ted Abernathy, RP - Decent reliever. ERA+ over next four seasons 127, 151, 134, 179.
Bob Locker, RP - Two years left on contract, ERA+ 117, 118.
Lindy McDaniel, RP - Actually has seven seasons left (1961 draftee), with ERA+ of 98, 175, 65, 131, 128, 110, 93 with decent WHIPs almost every year. I won't lie, this guy will likely take a first round pick some year to go.
Dock Ellis, starting pitcher with ERA+ of 97, 121, 114, 124, 116 could be had as well, but he will most definitely take a first rounder and maybe more. IP over the same five seasons: 218, 201, 226, 163, 192.

If interested, drop me a PM.

[catcher24]

What division will I be in and what teams will be there with me?

Welcome to the Hulbert Division, Craig. You'll be residing with the Badgers, Legends and Skipjacks. I was a bit sorry to see that the one expansion team who seems to be looking to really compete in 1969 landed in my division - no easy pickings there!:grouchy

[Windy City Fan]

Let me make sure I know how the playoffs work. I know the 4 division champs make it and two wild cards. I assume the best non-division winner in each league makes it and the best record in the leagues gets the first round bye. Am I right?

Secondly, what is the other division in my league and who is in it?

[leecemark]

you are correct on playoffs. a full list of divisions is in the first post of the general discussion thread.

[Windy City Fan]

Hmmm. After looking around a bit, I'd agree that the Legends should handily win the division and best record in the league. However, I do think my team could compete for the wild card depending on how things shake out.

The Thunder is still entertaining offers on all of their players, but is also interested in aquiring a slick fielding second baseman and a decent bat that can play first, along with bullpen help. PM with all possible candidates.

[J W]

Welcome to the Hulbert Division, Craig. You'll be residing with the Badgers, Legends and Skipjacks. I was a bit sorry to see that the one expansion team who seems to be looking to really compete in 1969 landed in my division - no easy pickings there!:grouchy

Oh NO. WCF's team is in our division? What are you trying to do to us Mark?

:grouchy :p

[Sockeye]

The Angels send

Mike Hegan
Willie Crawford

to EB Gold Sox for

EB Gold Sox 2nd rd pick in '75
EB Gold Sox 3rd rd pick in '76

[Erik Bedard]

Confirmed.

Now you and Joe have every one of my second-round picks from now until '76.

[-Kyle-]

Confirmed.

Now you and Joe have every one of my second-round picks from now until '76.

Wow. And I thought I traded a lot of my picks...

[sanket]

Here is my roster thus far...

Luis Tiant (SP)
Milt Pappas (SP)
Jim Maloney (SP)
Stan Williams (RP)
Hoyt Wilhelm (RP)
Degio Segui (RP)
Don McMahon (RP)
Ron Taylor (RP)
Jose Pagan (3B)

Any one of these players is available for trade... I'm looking for draft picks or young talent. A lot of these guys would be great if you're looking to make a run for the title in the '69 season.

[Windy City Fan]

TRADE!
The Thunder have just announced they have traded their 2nd round pick in the 69 draft, their 1st round pick in the 70 draft, and a player to be named later to the Cloverleafs for Don Sutton and Doug Rader.

Craig Ashley, the Thunder GM, had this to say, "I'm real excited to add to young talents like Sutton and Rader to the club. I think Rader and Brinkman give us one of the best defensive left sides of the infield in the game. And I'm confident Sutton will be a fine starter for our club."

Just a little note: The PTNML is my next expansion draft pick. If I'm not around when my pick comes up, the Cloverleafs are authorized to make the pick.

[jterry619]

TRADE!
The Thunder have just announced they have traded their 2nd round pick in the 69 draft, their 1st round pick in the 70 draft, and a player to be named later to the Cloverleafs for Don Sutton and Doug Rader.

Craig Ashley, the Thunder GM, had this to say, "I'm real excited to add to young talents like Sutton and Rader to the club. I think Rader and Brinkman give us one of the best defensive left sides of the infield in the game. And I'm confident Sutton will be a fine starter for our club."

Just a little note: The PTNML is my next expansion draft pick. If I'm not around when my pick comes up, the Cloverleafs are authorized to make the pick.

The Cloverleafs confirm the trade...I will send a list to Craig which he can forward to Mark sinceI cannot take part in the expansion pick process...

[leecemark]

--I'm going to be away for most of the rest of the day (don't raid me too bad). Joe can go ahead and proxy the pick himself if he is on-line when it gets back to Craig.

[Windy City Fan]

I sent the list to you Mark just in case. Joe if you want a 4th proxy as an extra backup, send the list to the person of your choice.

[jkc32]

Trade between the Philadelphia White Rage and the Shoeless Joe's.

The Rage send Hoyt Wilhelm to Shoeless for the Joe's 3rd round pick in 1973.

Nice trading with you!

[BlueBlood]

Wowsers. The Thunder has game.

Heh, just went through the Rookie Draft list for 1969. Slim pickings. The first 7 or 8 teams will come up with a gem, but I wouldn't be surprised if people threw darts at a dartboard to choose from the second round on.

K, I have holes to fill in my lineup and want to be able to be somewhat competitive this season. My second round rookie draft pick is completely on the table for an average every-day player at one of the positions I need.

[Erik Bedard]

It's actually not that bad of a year if you don't mind waiting. There are at least six impact bats that will pay off by the end of their first contract, three good-to-outstanding pitchers, plus several guys that could be very good situational guys.

[sanket]

Trade between the Philadelphia White Rage and the Shoeless Joe's.

The Rage send Hoyt Wilhelm to Shoeless for the Joe's 3rd round pick in 1973.

Nice trading with you!

Can we re-do that deal? I want more for Wilhelm, he had a great '69.

[jkc32]

Can we re-do that deal? I want more for Wilhelm, he had a great '69.

I'm PO'ed about this...We make a deal then you renig, but not until after you pick Clendenon whom I handed to you on a silver platter by not pulling him back last night so you could get him today. Dude, I'm not sure what kind of game you're playing but it's absolutely not cool!!!

I'm standing by our original deal. You tell me what you're going to do???

[BlueBlood]

It's actually not that bad of a year if you don't mind waiting. There are at least six impact bats that will pay off by the end of their first contract, three good-to-outstanding pitchers, plus several guys that could be very good situational guys.

Remember though that by the second round there will have been 15 other teams that just made a pick after my first....by then, the well's nearly run dry. Probably a decent backup or two left....just glancing over the number of games played from these guys, there are very few everyday players in the bunch.

[sanket]

I'm PO'ed about this...We make a deal then you renig, but not until after you pick Clendenon whom I handed to you on a silver platter by not pulling him back last night so you could get him today. Dude, I'm not sure what kind of game you're playing but it's absolutely not cool!!!

I'm standing by our original deal. You tell me what you're going to do???

lol chill man i wasnt thinking straight..

trade confirmed tho

[jkc32]

Remember though that by the second round there will have been 15 other teams that just made a pick after my first....by then, the well's nearly run dry. Probably a decent backup or two left....just glancing over the number of games played from these guys, there are very few everyday players in the bunch.

Very true, but there are some late bloomers that should last into round 3. The tough part for expansion or rebuilding GMs is do you take the scrub 2B because he has over 500ABs and will help you complete a starting lineup or do you take the guy who will sit on the bench for 3 years but have 3 solid years at the end of his contract.

[jkc32]

lol chill man i wasnt thinking straight..

trade confirmed tho

All we have in these online leagues are each others word that we'll do what we say...glad you kept yours!

And to think I started looking on E-Bay to hire Guido to "knee-cap" Maloney and Tiant. That's wasted time I can't get back now.;)

[sanket]

All we have in these online leagues are each others word that we'll do what we say...glad you kept yours!

And to think I started looking on E-Bay to hire Guido to "knee-cap" Maloney and Tiant. That's wasted time I can't get back now.;)

LOL!

-----------------------

[catcher24]

Remember though that by the second round there will have been 15 other teams that just made a pick after my first....by then, the well's nearly run dry. Probably a decent backup or two left....just glancing over the number of games played from these guys, there are very few everyday players in the bunch.

Absolutely true. The thing we "originals" have to remember is the difference now and then between a third rounder. Prior to 1964, even the last player picked in the third round was only the 27th overall player taken, and from 64 to 68 the last player taken in the 3rd round would be the 36th overall. Now you're up to the 32nd overall player by the end of round two! So whereas in the past the second rounder was almost always a very good player for several years, now you're looking at someone who might give you a decent year or two down the road. Mark, J W, Mac, Jim, Scott and I can remember getting some pretty decent players in the third round. Get into the third round now and you're just about done.

[BlueBlood]

I don't really mind the disadvantage we have as expansion owners as that's part of the game, but it will definitely take a while to build up, or more importantly, have the established owners break down. Once the 12 previously existent teams start losing their current free agents, and especially, their rookie draft picks to free agency over the course of the next 1-5 seasons, competitive balance should increase. Right now, it's hard to just fill up a roster. The league obviously has a cap somewhere...this sort of game can't support thirty teams when everyday players and strong backups are chucked to the "farm system"...a team like the one Legends has is practically 1.5 25-man-teams-worth of a 1969 squad. Also, the free agent market is now going to explode with four more owners in need of players and less top-tier contracts to go around. Brace yourselves, everyone. This game just got a whole lot more cutthroat. ;)

[Windy City Fan]

I'm curious, how many folks think they are at least a WC contender this year?

[BlueBlood]

I'm curious, how many folks think they are at least a WC contender this year?

Too many. I thought anything was possible for about five minutes...I don't have the backbone to put Free Agents on top of. I'll predict last in my division surely but I'm looking towards the future...

My honest opinion is that you do have a shot of contending, WCF, with those players. I don't think you can win it all though if you're trying to put together a big squad right now as it's nigh-on-impossible to build a structure like the Legends right now especially when they have some top performers that are being paid shillings. I think your other plan of grabbing the big-name, big-money players in this expansion draft will prove the most fruitful option, gaining you some rookie draft picks.

[jkc32]

I'm curious, how many folks think they are at least a WC contender this year?

Shoeless throws their hat in this ring. We have solid hitting, excellent pitching, and very little depth. We'll either contend or totally dismantle the squad before the season is over...maybe both!:nosleep:

[BlueBlood]

or totally dismantle the squad before the season is over...maybe both!:nosleep:

PM me ASAP when that happens. Lord knows I'll have money to spare.

[jkc32]

I think your other plan of grabbing the big-name, big-money players in this expansion draft will prove the most fruitful option, gaining you some rookie draft picks.

That's probably what I would have done had I been an expansion GM. If you contend, that's great. If not, you have to hope several other teams are still in the hunt if/when you decide to sell so you can try to get decent picks. If a couple of teams pull away early, they may be less inclined to pay and those chasing may not want to give up the future if catching the frontrunners looks futile.

It's a crapshoot.

[BlueBlood]

I'd only sell those sorta picks off if I was going with such a strategy. What's the point of contending when you know you're not a contender? Most of the established teams are a free agent, trade, or a few of both away from having a shot at the championship. Expansioners should be trying to make their club a viable one in the future.

[jkc32]

I'd only sell those sorta picks off if I was going with such a strategy. What's the point of contending when you know you're not a contender? Most of the established teams are a free agent, trade, or a few of both away from having a shot at the championship. Expansioners should be trying to make their club a viable one in the future.

It's all about being patient. Unfortunately, I would be impatient, try the quick fix, end up in last (for several seasons), and have to start from scratch again in the late 70's.

I do agree with your points though.

[Erik Bedard]

Absolutely true. The thing we "originals" have to remember is the difference now and then between a third rounder. Prior to 1964, even the last player picked in the third round was only the 27th overall player taken, and from 64 to 68 the last player taken in the 3rd round would be the 36th overall. Now you're up to the 32nd overall player by the end of round two! So whereas in the past the second rounder was almost always a very good player for several years, now you're looking at someone who might give you a decent year or two down the road. Mark, J W, Mac, Jim, Scott and I can remember getting some pretty decent players in the third round. Get into the third round now and you're just about done.

That was part of my thinking when I traded away all my picks as well.

I'm curious, how many folks think they are at least a WC contender this year?

In the Johnson/Cartwright league (did we ever decide which one it would be?), the Diablos and Cloverleafs are rebuilding, the Wranglers and White Rage are just building, which leaves me and the Redbirds, assuming the Knights and HC win their respective divisions. And, well, I'm not sure about the Redbirds. I'll certainly be gearing up for a run, though.

It's all about being patient. Unfortunately, I would be impatient, try the quick fix, end up in last (for several seasons), and have to start from scratch again in the late 70's.

I do agree with your points though.

I was impatient, and look where it got me. Playoffs in my first season. Then a disappointing year, an awful year (that got me Johnny Bench!), a mediocre year, and then playoffs again.

[catcher24]

I'm curious, how many folks think they are at least a WC contender this year?

I think I have a decent shot for the Hulbert Division title, and would in all honesty be extremely disappointed if I didn't make the playoffs.

[catcher24]

I'd only sell those sorta picks off if I was going with such a strategy. What's the point of contending when you know you're not a contender? Most of the established teams are a free agent, trade, or a few of both away from having a shot at the championship. Expansioners should be trying to make their club a viable one in the future.

This is my philosophy and has been from the start, which is why after I won the Hulbert Division the first year (1961) I started trading off all of my big names for future draft picks. The strategy has worked will for me. But it certainly isn't the only way to the top. Both Mac and Mark went for the gold right off, won it, and have continued to field top teams every season. So it can be done either way as long as you pick a strategy and follow it.

[leecemark]

--The Redbirds should give you a good run for 2nd (if I'm not being too cocky in assuming the Knights regain the division title this year;)). The Hard Cider are the favorite in the Cartwright until they finally lose it and I don't think that will be this year. The Cloverleafs should be a better team this year though and I wouldn't count them out of the playoff race.
--I think the Legends are a strong favorite to repeat in the Hulbert. The Skipjacks should be a strong team again though and I'd call them the Wild Card favorite in their league. The Badgers should be improved, although challenging for the playoffs still looks to be another year away (of course their is still alot of offseason to go and a very strong free agent class this year). The Thunder have gone with a largely veteran crew in the expansion draft and could make a run, but they have the toughest division to do that in.
--The Shoeless Joes look like the class of the new Chadwick Division and I'd bet on them to make their first playoff appearance. With nobody in that division who made the playoffs last year though it is primed for a surprise team. I wouldn't count anybody in that division out - including the expansion Brawlers if they decided to push for a quick fix (doesn't seem to be BB's plan though).

[catcher24]

There seems to be some question as to league and division teams. Here is the final structure:

Jackie Robinson League

Ban Johnson Division
EB Gold Sox
Leecemark Knights
PAP Redbirds
Philadelphia White Rage

Alexander Cartwright Division
Birmingham Cloverleafs
El Halo Diablos
Mac's Hard Cider
KW Wranglers

Babe Ruth League

William Hulbert Division
Buppers Badgers
JW Skipjacks
Lews Legends
Windy City Thunder

Henry Chadwick Division
Sockeye Angels
Blueblood Brawlers
Kyle Gamblers
JKC Shoeless Joes

[leecemark]

This is my philosophy and has been from the start, which is why after I won the Hulbert Division the first year (1961) I started trading off all of my big names for future draft picks. The strategy has worked will for me. But it certainly isn't the only way to the top. Both Mac and Mark went for the gold right off, won it, and have continued to field top teams every season. So it can be done either way as long as you pick a strategy and follow it.


--I think that last line is the key. There was enough talent in the expansion draft that if one team wanted to go for quick success it could be done. The price for that is going to be a longer wait to build a real foundation though - although the Gold Sox(/Marlins?) method of going for a contender loaded with mercenaries every few years is another option. If you are looking to build that foundation now you need to be prepared to lose a lot of games in the first couple years. I'd trade away most of my short term stars or near stars for young players and/or draft picks if I were going that route (and I'd hope for the patience to actually carry through:p). Every team is likley to go through a rebuilding phase at some point - although Mac and I have managed to avoid a tear down so far.

[Erik Bedard]

Knowing Scott, he'll probably end up with Wynn, Staub, and Petrocelli at the auction, in which case I'll have no chance.

[catcher24]

--The Shoeless Joes look like the class of the new Chadwick Division and I'd bet on them to make their first playoff appearance. With nobody in that division who made the playoffs last year though it is primed for a surprise team. I wouldn't count anybody in that division out - including the expansion Brawlers if they decided to push for a quick fix (doesn't seem to be BB's plan though).

An excellent appraisal of the new division. I agree that any team could make a run in this division, especially with the unknowns of the rookie draft and two free agent auctions still ahead. In all honesty, if the Thunder were in this division I'd be much more tempted to give them a good shot at the wild card, but Craig ended up in what, IMHO, is the toughest division and it will be very difficult for him to overcome the Legends, Skipjacks and rapidly improving (but still somewhat bedraggled :p;)) Badgers.

[leecemark]

Knowing Scott, he'll probably end up with Wynn, Staub, and Petrocelli at the auction, in which case I'll have no chance.


--Those 3 will probably get somewhere around 70M in combined salary. Somebody would have to have their cap pared down pretty good to land any 3 of the premium guys (Scott has dumped some big salaries in expansion though). I think one top guy and a mid-tier guy or two is the most anybody can expect to land with 16 of us in the mix now.

[Erik Bedard]

There are two PFAs that I would really want, plus a couple non-PFA guys that I could use.

[catcher24]

--Those 3 will probably get somewhere around 70M in combined salary. Somebody would have to have their cap pared down pretty good to land any 3 of the premium guys (Scott has dumped some big salaries in expansion though). I think one top guy and a mid-tier guy or two is the most anybody can expect to land with 16 of us in the mix now.

I rather expect to see at least two of the three mentioned go to expansion owners. They have managed to steer clear of the big $$$$ contracts pretty well so far. If they continue to do so, those of us who exposed big contract guys in the draft will still be stuck with them, thus less money for bidding. The rookie draft is almost a non-issue where this is concerned, since even the top four guys are only at 1M for the first year.

I think I was lucky that someone took Tiant off my hands, and that wasn't even a really big contract. I was somewhat surprised that Harper lasted, even at 6M, but he protects me at five positions, so it's OK. All of my really big contracts at this point belong to guys (McCovey, Aaron, Santo, Morgan) who are keys to my success, at least for 1969, and so won't be leaving anytime this season.

[Windy City Fan]

Expansion team payrolls thus far:

White Rage: 62.5 Million
Wranglers: 10.25
Brawlers: 8.0
Thunder: 39.5 Million

Of course, we all have our 12 million dollar franchise tags for the 60's to play with. Clearly the Wranglers and Brawlers are in position to go on a free agent shopping spree, but looking at their rosters they are not built to compete now anyway. I'm not sure they'd want to waste money and flexibility locking up high priced players now that won't help them compete till 2 or 3 years down the road at best. Assuming the Rage use their franchise tag, they'll have less than 30 million in cap room. Still a sizeable amount, but signing any big names now would severely limit their flexibility in the future. (Of course, I'm not sure how many of their salaries come off the books next year either). For me, I know there are a couple of premium free agents I'm looking at, and I definately expect to land at least one.

[buppers]

Can someone direct me to the following teams protected lists?
Don't know why but I can't find
Gold Sox
PAP Redbirds
Gamblers
Shoeless Joes

Working on some updates and could use the help.

Ed

[catcher24]

I'm not sure they'd want to waste money and flexibility locking up high priced players now that won't help them compete till 2 or 3 years down the road at best

A couple of reasons why they might want to consider it: 1) if a FA is signed for 8M or more, the contract can be as long as 5 years, so a FA signed now that still has a lot left in the tank could help; 2) same scenario, a FA locked up for five years could look mighty tempting to a contending team needing to fill a particular hole, and could result in some very nice draft picks.

Conversely, they might not want to tie up that money because who knows what players an established team with a lot of youngsters in the minors might offer for a draft pick.

[leecemark]

--If it were me I'd be spending up close to my cap for warm bodies and hang onto my draft picks. Not the only way to do things though.

[leecemark]

Expansion team payrolls thus far:

White Rage: 62.5 Million
Wranglers: 10.25
Brawlers: 8.0
Thunder: 39.5 Million

Of course, we all have our 12 million dollar franchise tags for the 60's to play with. Clearly the Wranglers and Brawlers are in position to go on a free agent shopping spree, but looking at their rosters they are not built to compete now anyway. I'm not sure they'd want to waste money and flexibility locking up high priced players now that won't help them compete till 2 or 3 years down the road at best. Assuming the Rage use their franchise tag, they'll have less than 30 million in cap room. Still a sizeable amount, but signing any big names now would severely limit their flexibility in the future. (Of course, I'm not sure how many of their salaries come off the books next year either). For me, I know there are a couple of premium free agents I'm looking at, and I definately expect to land at least one.

--The Brawlers and Wranglers can take their pick of free agents with that much cash. I expect they will each pick up a big ticket guy who will be good for 4-5 years and a couple others to keep him company. Glad I'm not in dire need of any free agents this year -although there are a couple I'd like to sign.

[catcher24]

Can someone direct me to the following teams protected lists?
Don't know why but I can't find
Gold Sox
PAP Redbirds
Gamblers
Shoeless Joes

Working on some updates and could use the help.

Ed

Ed - Did what I could. Kyle and Dan may have to help you with their final lists if any changes were made. Mark had a list HERE (http://www.baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=76963&page=4), Post #64.

Here is the only one I found for the Gamblers:

14 Protected
LF/3B/1B Harmon Killebrew (12m, Franchise Player)
CF Willie Davis (7.5m 67-70)
LHP Jim Kaat (8.75m, 61 Draft, Trade with Defunct Nails)
LHP Ron Perranoski (8.00m 61 Draft, Trade with Gold Sox)
RHP Mel Stottlemyre (3.50m, 64 Draft)
LHP Jerry Koosman (1.00m, 67 Draft)
C Ed Kirkpatrick (.25m 67-69)
RHP Marty Pattin (.50m, 68 Draft)
3B Bill Melton (.75m, 68 Draft)
SS Rico Petrocelli (1.50m, 63 Draft)

After my trade with Kyle, I believe he added Dick Green and Art Shamsky to this list. It also seems like he dropped someone, but maybe he can help with that.

The Gold Sox:
Johnny Bench
Jim Northrup
Jim Perry
Mike McCormick
Bob Veale
Mark Belanger
John Hiller
Nolan Ryan
Ken Sanders
Mike Hedlund
Ken Henderson
Bob Watson
Steve Blass
Don Mincher

Again, I don't know about any changes. Dan could help with that.

Shoeless Joes
14-Man Protected Squad
C: Chris Cannizzaro (750K, 1961)
1B: Bob Bailey (5.25M, 1968-70)
1B: Orlando Cepeda (1M, 1968-70)
2B: Ken Boswell (250K, 1967)
3B: Tony Perez (1.25M, 1964)
OF: Frank Howard (20.25M, 1966-70)
OF: Roy White (1.25M, 1965)
OF: Alex Johnson (1M, 1964)
OF: Al Oliver (750K, 1968)
P: Bob Gibson (12M, Franchise)
P: Steve Carlton (1.5M, 1965)
P: Fritz Peterson (1.5M, 1966)
P: Gary Nolan (1.25M, 1967)
P: Dick Bosman (1M, 1966)

Redbirds
14 man protected squad
1B: Lee May (1.25M, 65 draft)
1B: Nate Colbert(500K, 66 draft)
2B: Rod Carew (1.5M, 67 draft)
3B: Don Money (250K, 68 draft)
OF: Carlos May (1 M, 68 draft)
OF: Paul Blair (1 M, 64 draft)
OF: Reggie Jackson (1 M, 67 draft)
OF: Jim Hickman (8 M, 66fa signed through '70)
P: Don Wilson (1.5M, 66 draft)
P: Nelson Briles (2 M, 65 draft)
P: Jack Billingham (500 K, 68 draft)
RP: Mike Marshall (500 K, 67 draft)
RP: Clay Carroll (1.25M, 64 draft)
RP: Darold Knowles (1 M, 65 draft)

[buppers]

I am looking for the rosters that were supposed to be posted :dismay: listing protected list, Expansion eligible, Free Agents, all with salaries and contracts.
This is my one big chance to compile database so if the owners of above mentioned teams have info, please have it find its way to me.

Thanks, Ed

[Erik Bedard]

Post 14 in this thread lists my data. Only change made was unprotecting Veale for Glenn Beckert.

[buppers]

OK, I think I have all I need. Can go back and get Gold Sox salaries from roster page.
Everything else I can gather from offseason and expansion posts.

Ed

[Erik Bedard]

Roster page hasn't been updated yet. I usually do that at the end of every offseason.

Here's what I have now:

POSITION YEAR SIGNED RAISE EXP. SALARY

CATCHER
Johnny Bench 1967 WPM $1,250,000.00
Duffy Dyer 1968 WPM $250,000.00
Johnny Edwards 1968 No 1970 $250,000.00
FIRST BASE
Don Mincher 1968 No 1970 $250,000.00
SECOND BASE
Glenn Beckert WPM $1,000,000.00
Ted Kubiak 1967 WPM $750,000.00
THIRD BASE
Mike Shannon 1967 No 1969 $1,250,000.00
SHORTSTOP
Rick Renick 1968 WPM $500,000.00
Mark Belanger 1965 WPM $500,000.00
LEFT FIELD
Wayne Comer 1967 $250,000.00
CENTER FIELD
Felipe Alou 1961 WPM $5,000,000.00
Jim Northrup 1964 WPM $3,000,000.00
RIGHT FIELD
Ken Henderson 1965 WPM $500,000.00
Bob Watson 1966 WPM $500,000.00
STARTERS
Jim Perry 1966 No $20,750,000.00
Stan Bahnsen 1966 WPM $1,000,000.00
Steve Blass 1964 WPM $750,000.00
Lew Krausse 1964 WPM $750,000.00
Nolan Ryan 1966 WPM $1,500,000.00
Mike McCormick 1967 No 1969 $8,750,000.00
Jim Nash 1965 WPM $1,000,000.00
Jim Lonborg 1965 WPM $2,000,000.00
RELIEVERS
Roy Face 1961 WPM $2,250,000.00
Al Worthington 1961 WPM $2,000,000.00
Tom Kelley 1964 WPM $500,000.00
Ken Sanders 1964 WPM $750,000.00
Mike Hedlund 1965 WPM $500,000.00
John Hiller 1965 WPM $2,000,000.00
Moe Drabowsky 1961 WPM $1,750,000.00
Ed Sprague 1968 WPM $250,000.00

[ElHalo]

I'm upset that some of my players didn't get taken in the expansion draft. I was hoping that every eligible player for me would be taken so I wouldn't have to deal with the madness.

[leecemark]

--Give it time. Eventually they will probably have to take your guys if you leave them exposed.

[leecemark]

--I would be willing to trade Rich Reese to anyone needing a 1B/LF/DH for this year. Reese puts up a line of 322/362/513 in 69 and is an above average fielder at either 1B or LF. He is eligible for around 600 PA this year. I'd take a 2nd rounder this year or next from any expansion team. I'd take a player who delivers similar value in a later year from anyone. Other offers would also be considered.
--For more ambitious traders I could offer reigning MVP Billy Williams. He would obviously take alot more, but he is an elite hitter for another 4-5 years. I'd want a pitcher with several good years in his future. Alternatively, an outfielder with the same or a package of draft picks.

[catcher24]

Mark - A suggestion on the rookie draft. I would strongly recommend that we only do two rounds in real time. That will still amount to 32 players, which is only four short of our usual 36 taken in three live rounds. Then we could switch to the eight hour clock. If everyone was prepared :atthepc we might keep it under three hours!

[BlueBlood]

Two rounds makes more sense. Third round will take a bit more decision time as we're all looking at the bottom of the barrel for someone decent for a year or two. With so few players that have any sort of career, I would assume that everyone should be well prepared with a list that only needs to be 32 deep. The only irksome part is that I'll be ranking the top 18 candidates knowing full well that I'm getting either #1, #2 or #3 in my list and none of the others. Guess I could just chuck all of the picks below that mark into a pool and choose any that survive to the second round or the highest pick on my second round list which once again would only need to be #17, #18 and #19.

Hmm. Now that I think about it, it should be relatively easy to prepare for this. Heck, established owners near the bottom of the choosing won't even need to rank any of the top candidates because they know they won't be able to select them. We could pull off two live rounds in an hour if everyone has a list.

[Windy City Fan]

When is the rookie draft scheduled to take place? I know we're still doing the expansion draft, but that's really winding down now. Not a lot of players worth anything are left.

[catcher24]

When is the rookie draft scheduled to take place? I know we're still doing the expansion draft, but that's really winding down now. Not a lot of players worth anything are left.

I believe Mark has that tentatively scheduled for Friday June 6th. It's always on a Friday, as is the Premium Free Agent Auction - tentatively set for Friday, June 13th - uh-oh, Friday the 13th:eek:. Maybe we'd better wait a week! We used to start at 9:00, but it seems like the last time we started at 8 because it worked better for a few people.

[catcher24]

Two rounds makes more sense. Third round will take a bit more decision time as we're all looking at the bottom of the barrel for someone decent for a year or two. With so few players that have any sort of career, I would assume that everyone should be well prepared with a list that only needs to be 32 deep. The only irksome part is that I'll be ranking the top 18 candidates knowing full well that I'm getting either #1, #2 or #3 in my list and none of the others. Guess I could just chuck all of the picks below that mark into a pool and choose any that survive to the second round or the highest pick on my second round list which once again would only need to be #17, #18 and #19.

Hmm. Now that I think about it, it should be relatively easy to prepare for this. Heck, established owners near the bottom of the choosing won't even need to rank any of the top candidates because they know they won't be able to select them. We could pull off two live rounds in an hour if everyone has a list.

I normally don't rank them at all. I use a little different method that works well for me. It also helps me see at a glance who is best for a year, two years, etc. But whatever works for you, use it.

[leecemark]

--With the extra 4 owners added it probably will be better to do just the first 2 rounds live. We've been drafting 36 players in the live portion and that has taken up to 3 hours. Cutting it down to 32 makes more sense than pushing it up to 48.

[jkc32]

The Joe's and Redbirds complete a deal started prior to the expansion draft.

The Redbirds get the Joe's 2nd round pick this year (from Gold Sox), 2nd round pick in 1970 (from Gold Sox), 3rd round pick in 1970 (Hard Cider) and 4th round pick in 1970 (Shoeless' own pick) for Darold Knowles and Jim Hickman.

Scott to confirm when he's feeling up to it.

[jkc32]

I normally don't rank them at all. I use a little different method that works well for me. It also helps me see at a glance who is best for a year, two years, etc.

Do tell...inquiring minds want to know cuz whatever method you use works very well.:bowdown:;)

[The Dude]

Under new ownership, the Philadelphia White Rage will become AC Appletonia, and play their games in Jarry Park.

[Erik Bedard]

I believe Mark has that tentatively scheduled for Friday June 6th. It's always on a Friday, as is the Premium Free Agent Auction - tentatively set for Friday, June 13th - uh-oh, Friday the 13th:eek:. Maybe we'd better wait a week! We used to start at 9:00, but it seems like the last time we started at 8 because it worked better for a few people.

Well, that's exam week for me. So I'd better get my rookie scouting out of the way early.

[The Dude]

I work most fridays till 11:30 east, so I'll make sure to find a proxy before then.

[catcher24]

I work most fridays till 11:30 east, so I'll make sure to find a proxy before then.

I'll be happy to do it if you want, Wil. Good Lord willin' and as long as the creek don't rise, I'll be here!;)

[J W]

The Skipjacks and Hard Cider have agreed on a trade. The 1969 Skipjacks team takes a small hit in order to bolster their looming 1970 team:

Jerry Kenney (.25)
Dave Leonhard (.25)
--------------
Steve Hargan (1.0)

Mac, please confirm.

[baseballPAP]

Ed - Did what I could. Kyle and Dan may have to help you with their final lists if any changes were made. Mark had a list HERE (http://www.baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=76963&page=4), Post #64.

Here is the only one I found for the Gamblers:

14 Protected
LF/3B/1B Harmon Killebrew (12m, Franchise Player)
CF Willie Davis (7.5m 67-70)
LHP Jim Kaat (8.75m, 61 Draft, Trade with Defunct Nails)
LHP Ron Perranoski (8.00m 61 Draft, Trade with Gold Sox)
RHP Mel Stottlemyre (3.50m, 64 Draft)
LHP Jerry Koosman (1.00m, 67 Draft)
C Ed Kirkpatrick (.25m 67-69)
RHP Marty Pattin (.50m, 68 Draft)
3B Bill Melton (.75m, 68 Draft)
SS Rico Petrocelli (1.50m, 63 Draft)

After my trade with Kyle, I believe he added Dick Green and Art Shamsky to this list. It also seems like he dropped someone, but maybe he can help with that.

The Gold Sox:
Johnny Bench
Jim Northrup
Jim Perry
Mike McCormick
Bob Veale
Mark Belanger
John Hiller
Nolan Ryan
Ken Sanders
Mike Hedlund
Ken Henderson
Bob Watson
Steve Blass
Don Mincher

Again, I don't know about any changes. Dan could help with that.

Shoeless Joes
14-Man Protected Squad
C: Chris Cannizzaro (750K, 1961)
1B: Bob Bailey (5.25M, 1968-70)
1B: Orlando Cepeda (1M, 1968-70)
2B: Ken Boswell (250K, 1967)
3B: Tony Perez (1.25M, 1964)
OF: Frank Howard (20.25M, 1966-70)
OF: Roy White (1.25M, 1965)
OF: Alex Johnson (1M, 1964)
OF: Al Oliver (750K, 1968)
P: Bob Gibson (12M, Franchise)
P: Steve Carlton (1.5M, 1965)
P: Fritz Peterson (1.5M, 1966)
P: Gary Nolan (1.25M, 1967)
P: Dick Bosman (1M, 1966)

Redbirds
14 man protected squad
1B: Lee May (1.25M, 65 draft)
1B: Nate Colbert(500K, 66 draft)
2B: Rod Carew (1.5M, 67 draft)
3B: Don Money (250K, 68 draft)(listed as srafted #44??? please clarify when you can Mark. I understand he has moved on again....obviously this would be partially my fault for being behind, but I'd think a little compensation is in order somewhere :) )
OF: Carlos May (1 M, 68 draft)
OF: Paul Blair (1 M, 64 draft)
OF: Reggie Jackson (1 M, 67 draft)
OF: Jim Hickman (8 M, 66fa signed through '70)
P: Don Wilson (1.5M, 66 draft)
P: Nelson Briles (2 M, 65 draft)
P: Jack Billingham (500 K, 68 draft)
RP: Mike Marshall (500 K, 67 draft)
RP: Clay Carroll (1.25M, 64 draft)
RP: Darold Knowles (1 M, 65 draft)

Here's that scary little Money issue again......

[leecemark]

--Scott, in the expansion draft thread I offered WCF a sandwich pick between the 3rd and 4th rounds as compensation for not catching the error on the Money selection. If you'd like that as your compensation instead of Money back then the pick/trade could stand. If not, you did have him protected and have first dibs on his services.

[jterry619]

--Scott, in the expansion draft thread I offered WCF a sandwich pick between the 3rd and 4th rounds as compensation for not catching the error on the Money selection. If you'd like that as your compensation instead of Money back then the pick/trade could stand. If not, you did have him protected and have first dibs on his services.


The only issue here Mark is Money was my proxy pick so the sandwich pick offered to Windy City doesn't do me a lot of good...not upset at all but we need to figure out an equitable solution that involves the Leafs in the negotiation because this was a pretty big deal involving Sutton and picks plus Don Money.

[leecemark]

--The problem is the Thunder picked a player who was not eligible. The only reason I'm offering any compensation is because it took so long for the error to be pointed out. If he takes the pick he can pass it along to you or give you other compensation, whichever is agreeable to you. Or, if you can't agree on a replacement, you can reverse the deal.
--Actually I guess I could make a little more generous compensation to Scott to take the complications out of this. Scott I'll make the sandwich pick for you between the 2nd and 3rd if that is agreeable to you and then the Money pick/trade can stand.

[jterry619]

--The problem is the Thunder picked a player who was not eligible. The only reason I'm offering any compensation is because it took so long for the error to be pointed out. If he takes the pick he can pass it along to you or give you other compensation, whichever is agreeable to you. Or, if you can't agree on a replacement, you can reverse the deal.



I sent a pm to Windy City to see if we can come up with a solution..

[leecemark]

--I edited my last post to offer a better deal to Scott as compensation. I'm sure we'll end up with a satisfactory solution.

[jterry619]

--I edited my last post to offer a better deal to Scott as compensation. I'm sure we'll end up with a satisfactory solution.


no doubt...no problem..

[Sockeye]

I believe Mark has that tentatively scheduled for Friday June 6th. It's always on a Friday, as is the Premium Free Agent Auction - tentatively set for Friday, June 13th - uh-oh, Friday the 13th:eek:. Maybe we'd better wait a week! We used to start at 9:00, but it seems like the last time we started at 8 because it worked better for a few people.

Wasn't the draft opened up and allowed to start about a week before the scheduled live portion last offseason? If memory serves me correctly it was untimed and we still got nearly 2 rounds in before the live draft took place. I thought this worked very well as it gave teams a chance to trade up or down. Any idea if the rookie draft will be opened up early again this year?

[catcher24]

Wasn't the draft opened up and allowed to start about a week before the scheduled live portion last offseason? If memory serves me correctly it was untimed and we still got nearly 2 rounds in before the live draft took place. I thought this worked very well as it gave teams a chance to trade up or down. Any idea if the rookie draft will be opened up early again this year?

That will ultimately be up to Mark, but we have started early for the last three years, I believe. It's untimed, of course, so one person not being prepared can stop the entire process. But you are right - it has worked well in the past.

[leecemark]

--Possibly, depending on when the expansion draft wraps up.
--There will be a short window for teams to non-tender/buy out exposed, but undrafted players from the expansion draft. Actually, anyone who is wants to designate for assignment players on the eligible list may post that now. It will be a short window and I don't want anyone to get stuck with a player they didn't want.

[Sockeye]

Just noticed one error while looking over the 63 draftees. Willie Smith is on a three year deal signed through 1969.

[mac195]

The Skipjacks and Hard Cider have agreed on a trade. The 1969 Skipjacks team takes a small hit in order to bolster their looming 1970 team:

Jerry Kenney (.25)
Dave Leonhard (.25)
--------------
Steve Hargan (1.0)

Mac, please confirm.

The HC confirm. We hate to lose Hargan's very good '70 season, but Kenney and Leonhard will help us in our two weakest areas for '69: SS and bullpen.

[baseballPAP]

--Scott, in the expansion draft thread I offered WCF a sandwich pick between the 3rd and 4th rounds as compensation for not catching the error on the Money selection. If you'd like that as your compensation instead of Money back then the pick/trade could stand. If not, you did have him protected and have first dibs on his services.

Considering Money was a higher pick that that, in a stronger draft class, and in a 12 man draft....I'll have to be a pain and request Money back....sorry guys.

OK...Edit......I'll take it....

Just the ache in MY skull that had developed trying to tink of a good solution was too much :)

[baseballPAP]

The Joe's and Redbirds complete a deal started prior to the expansion draft.

The Redbirds get the Joe's 2nd round pick this year (from Gold Sox), 2nd round pick in 1970 (from Gold Sox), 3rd round pick in 1970 (Hard Cider) and 4th round pick in 1970 (Shoeless' own pick) for Darold Knowles and Jim Hickman.

Scott to confirm when he's feeling up to it.

The Redbirds confirm.....let the middling also-rans flow freely :)

[leecemark]

Considering Money was a higher pick that that, in a stronger draft class, and in a 12 man draft....I'll have to be a pain and request Money back....sorry guys.

OK...Edit......I'll take it....

Just the ache in MY skull that had developed trying to tink of a good solution was too much :)

--Scott, you may have missed this, but I bumped the compensation pick up to a sandwich between the 2nd and 3rd. Appreciate your helping out here - and hope the improved compensation helps with the headache;).

[BlueBlood]

I've got to say it: The Dude is playing a great game. He unloaded Pappas for a tidy sum of draft picks, jumped on the Fregosi deal, etc. Nice job! You've undone a lot of the damage sanket caused by making absolutely random picks based on name recognition.

[J W]

Wil's a good and dedicated owner. His old team (the Gamblers) unfortunately didn't live up to billing (wasn't it '64 you were shooting for Wil? Same as me).

Now that the ebb and flow is established I'm sure he'll build a good team for the early 70s. :cap:

[Windy City Fan]

TRADE

The Windy City Thunder have aquired Glen Beckert and the 10th overall pick of the 1969 rookie draft from the Gold Sox in exchange for their first round rookie pick in '71!

[Erik Bedard]

Gold Sox confirm.

:crossfingers: that the player we want drops to 25.

[catcher24]

I've got to say it: The Dude is playing a great game. He unloaded Pappas because for a tidy sum of draft picks, jumped on the Fregosi deal, etc. Nice job! You've undone a lot of the damage sanket caused by making absolutely random picks based on name recognition.

Wil was always an excellent and, more importantly, dedicated and active owner. I'm still sorry about the way it all worked out, but I'm very, very glad to have Wil back in the CKL.:clapping:nod: And yes, he does seem to be doing a good job - but that doesn't surprise those of us who played against him before.

[catcher24]

Lots of trading going on. Just an early plug for next season's draft - don't trade all of your top picks in the 1970 draft just yet. The Legends will have some BIG names to offer in the 1969-1970 off season after our attempt to repeat in 1969.:p

[The Dude]

I've got to say it: The Dude is playing a great game. He unloaded Pappas because for a tidy sum of draft picks, jumped on the Fregosi deal, etc. Nice job! You've undone a lot of the damage sanket caused by making absolutely random picks based on name recognition.

BB, Thank you very much. When I looked at my payroll I nearly went bezonkers (granted, I already went bezonkers recently. 3 credits in 3 weeks=tons of fun).

Wil's a good and dedicated owner. His old team (the Gamblers) unfortunately didn't live up to billing (wasn't it '64 you were shooting for Wil? Same as me).

Now that the ebb and flow is established I'm sure he'll build a good team for the early 70s. :cap:

Somebody just had to bring up 1964. ;) Yeah ... Killebrew raked, and Rico Carty should have won ROY, but my pitching killed me again (in a pitchers park no less), and Rocky Colavito hit like 15 HR's I think. It was the Gamblers only winning season, but we finished 3rd in the division.

Wil was always an excellent and, more importantly, dedicated and active owner. I'm still sorry about the way it all worked out, but I'm very, very glad to have Wil back in the CKL.:clapping:nod: And yes, he does seem to be doing a good job - but that doesn't surprise those of us who played against him before.

Thank you for all the kind words, especially those of you that knew what was going on when I left. I'm glad to be back.

[BlueBlood]

I can't believe these deals being pulled off. Some teams want to win now, resulting in a few really raking in the draft picks. For the record, anyone that performs well BEFORE 1971 but not amazing after 1970 is COMPLETELY UP FOR GRABS FROM ME. I don't know why I didn't jump on this trade wagon sooner, actually. First rookie draft pick for a superstar year or two, second round draft for anyone else that doesn't do great two years from now when I hope to have built a more competitive team.

[The Dude]

I tried the "give up picks for now" method ... and that didn't work so well (granted, playing with the leagues founder and simulator in your division doesn't work so well ... NOT that I'm saying Mark fudges the numbers at all ;) ), so I thought after the pile I walked into, I would try the "take all the picks I can" method.

[leecemark]

TRADE

The Windy City Thunder have aquired Glen Beckert and the 10th overall pick of the 1969 rookie draft from the Gold Sox in exchange for their first round rookie pick in '71!


--According to the list at the top of this thread the 10th overall pick (originally Redbirds) belongs to the Angels. If any of the parties involved can clear this up that would be helpfull. Also everyone please check that list and point out anything else that doesn't seem right.

[Erik Bedard]

It's definitely mine. I got it for Maury Wills during last year's FA auction.

[The Dude]

Appletonia announces that Right Hander Diego Segui is on the block. He comes at a hefty price of 12.75 Million for the next 3 seasons. However, he can be the best long reliever you have, or start 20 games for you each season. His best year left is 1970, with a 1.22 WHIP, 138 ERA+ (Leading the American League), and 162.7 IP.

As usual, Appletonia is looking for draft picks in return. The price is hefty, but if you can afford it, he'll give you some very good inninngs. All offers will be looked at.

[leecemark]

--Please let me know if I have any errors or omissions in traded picks.

1) Thuinder 2-Cloverleafs
2) Wranglers
3) Blueblood
4) Appletonia
5) Gamblers, 1-Angels, 2 and 3- Legends
6) Diablos, 2-Knights
7) Badgers
8) Angels, 1- Knights or Gamblers, 2*-Knights, 3 -Appletonia , 4 - Legends, 5 - Gold Sox
9) Shoeless Joes 1-Hard Cider, 2-Gold Sox, 3-Hard Cider
10) Redbirds 1-Thunder (extra pick between 2nd and 3rd rounds)
11) Cloverleafs 3-Appletonia
12) Skipjacks
13) Knights
14) Hard Cider 1-Cloverleafs, 3-Angels
15) Gold Sox 1-Hard Cider, 2- Redbirds, 3 - Shoeless Joes 4-Angels
16) Legends 2-Kinghts

--There has been quite a bit of wheeling and dealing and some of the traded picks may be missed or wrong. Please let me know what is out of place prior to the rookie draft thread going up. Also, please make sure that trades of draft picks in future years have been noted in the roster thread. That is what I'm using to build the draft each year.

[Sockeye]

--According to the list at the top of this thread the 10th overall pick (originally Redbirds) belongs to the Angels. If any of the parties involved can clear this up that would be helpfull. Also everyone please check that list and point out anything else that doesn't seem right.

Nope, not mine. The only pick I own in the 1st rd is the 5th overall pick.

[The Dude]

Mark,

I obtained the Skipjacks 2nd Rounder this season in the deal that sent Milta Pappas to JW.

Also, I don't have the cloverleafs 3rd round this year. I think that mistake reigns from the confusion over the Wilhelm trade.

Trade Block Announcement:
-Dennis Menke is on the block. He comes at a hefty price of 14 million for this season and the next. However, he is a better than average offensive short stop both seasons, who can get you 10 HR's and about 90 BB's, and he his .300 in 1970. He might be that final peice of your puzzle.

[jkc32]

Here's the Wilhelm deal...

The deal was Wilhelm for my 3rd round pick (Shoeless) in 1973. I also agreed not to pullback Donn Clendenon so Sanket could draft him. The deal had nothing to do with the Cloverleafs (the other Joe).

[jterry619]

Here's the Wilhelm deal...

The deal was Wilhelm for my 3rd round pick (Shoeless) in 1973. I also agreed not to pullback Donn Clendenon so Sanket could draft him. The deal had nothing to do with the Cloverleafs (the other Joe).

I thought that looked odd...I was just trying to trace it and didn't remeber that deal.

[mac195]

Hard Cider non-tenders:

SP: Larry Jaster
RP: Jerry Nyman
RP: Cisco Carlos

[leecemark]

--Okay, this is a revised list of the draft order with traded picks. Please let me know of any remaining errors. The rookie draft list has been moved up to post 2 of this thread and I'll keep it updated when/if more deals are made. The actual rookie draft thread will go up immediatley after the conclusion of the expansion draft.

1) Thuinder 2-Cloverleafs
2) Wranglers
3) Brawlers
4) Appletonia
5) Gamblers, 2 and 3- Legends
6) Diablos, 2-Knights
7) Badgers
8) Angels, 1/2*- Knights, 3 -Appletonia , 4 - Legends, 5 - Gold Sox
9) Shoeless Joes 1-Hard Cider, 2-Appletonia, 3-Hard Cider
10) Redbirds 1-Thunder (extra pick between 2nd and 3rd rounds)
11) Cloverleafs
12) Skipjacks 2-Appletonia
13) Knights
14) Hard Cider 1-Cloverleafs, 3-Angels
15) Gold Sox 1-Hard Cider, 2- Redbirds, 3 - Appletonia 4-Angels
16) Legends 2-Knights


--I'll second the previous comments about Wil doing a nice job recovering from bloated contracts drafted he took over in expansion. He turned most of them into 4 extra picks this year and more in subsequent years. Now its just a matter of finding warm bodies to fill out the roster.

[leecemark]

--These are free agents who will be available for those with holes in their everyday lineup by primary position. Some, of course, can play more than one spot. Everyone currently without a contract and more than 400 PA in 1969 is included;
C: 3
1B: 3
2B: 4 (plus 1 rookie)
3B: 7
SS: 5
LF: 7
CF: 2
RF: 3
--Quality was not an issue in building this list. They are just guys who can give you full or near-full time play. Players still available in the expansion draft and not non-tendered by their original team are not included. I think several teams may end up with patched together catching situations this year. CF has even fewer options, but several corner guys are capable of moving to CF.

--There are 10 FA and 8 rookie pitchers who are capable of filling, at least to some extent, a starting role. That number is everyone who faced at least 600 batters - with as low a 137 IP making the list. Only 4 FA and 2 rookie pitchers contribute 200+ innings this year, although there are a bunch more with 180-199. Anybody with one hole in the rotation should have no problem filling it. More than one you may be shuffling bodies in and out to make it through the season.

[-Kyle-]

I can't believe these deals being pulled off. Some teams want to win now, resulting in a few really raking in the draft picks. For the record, anyone that performs well BEFORE 1971 but not amazing after 1970 is COMPLETELY UP FOR GRABS FROM ME. I don't know why I didn't jump on this trade wagon sooner, actually. First rookie draft pick for a superstar year or two, second round draft for anyone else that doesn't do great two years from now when I hope to have built a more competitive team.

It depends you trade draft picks away when you actually think you will make the playoffs, and you trade for them when you don't think you will. I didn't think I was going to do anything in 1968, and tank and got a few alright picks in exchange for 20 wins - which would not have led me into the playoffs anyways.

If you just trade them away and you don't have shot, then you are screwed. I traded a lot of my 1969, 70, and 71 picks away but I it bumped my team up to a serious contender this year, so I am happy.

And Mark, do you take the Sockeye's 2nd round pick then intsead of swapping 1sties?

[leecemark]

==Kyle, my deal with Sockeye allowed me to defer that choice until the 8th pick came up on the clock. If thereis somebody I want then I swap 1st rounders with him (well you now). If not then I take his 2nd rounder instead. There are 6 players I'd be willing to trade up for, so it just depends on whether one of them slips or not (and there are a couple players who may well rnake ahead of them for somebody else - I'm drafting for need). If you want to lock in the 8th spot and are willing to pay for the priveledge, I'm definately open to negotiation.

[-Kyle-]

Eh, never mind then. I have a couple players who might fall I am looking at.

[jkc32]

15) Gold Sox 1-Hard Cider, 2- Redbirds, 3 - Appletonia 4-Angels


The Gold Sox 3rd round pick belongs to Shoeless. It was part of the Don Mincher trade, prior to the expansion draft.

[Erik Bedard]

That is correct. The deal with Appletonia only included Shoeless' 2nd-round pick this year.

[Sockeye]

--Okay, this is a revised list of the draft order with traded picks. Please let me know of any remaining errors. The rookie draft list has been moved up to post 2 of this thread and I'll keep it updated when/if more deals are made. The actual rookie draft thread will go up immediatley after the conclusion of the expansion draft.

1) Thuinder 2-Cloverleafs
2) Wranglers
3) Brawlers
4) Appletonia
5) Gamblers, 2 and 3- Legends
6) Diablos, 2-Knights
7) Badgers
8) Angels, 1/2*- Knights, 3 -Appletonia , 4 - Legends, 5 - Gold Sox
9) Shoeless Joes 1-Hard Cider, 2-Appletonia, 3-Hard Cider
10) Redbirds 1-Thunder (extra pick between 2nd and 3rd rounds)
11) Cloverleafs
12) Skipjacks 2-Appletonia
13) Knights
14) Hard Cider 1-Cloverleafs, 3-Angels
15) Gold Sox 1-Hard Cider, 2- Redbirds, 3 - Appletonia 4-Angels
16) Legends 2-Knights


We own the Gamblers 1st rd pick now (5th overall). If you choose to take our 2nd rd pick instead of swapping 1st rounders we'll also own the Gamblers 4th rd pick this year.

[Sockeye]

Sockeye's Angels trade

Rich Nye

to EB Gold Sox for

3rd rd pick in 1975

[Erik Bedard]

Confirmed. Nye should be better than nothing this year at least.

[jkc32]

Not sure if anyone has seen this post:

http://dmbforum.yuku.com/topic/4827/t/FUTURE-OF-DMB-PC-GAME.html

[Erik Bedard]

I kinda figured it was coming, and I'm not really a big follower of DMB at all. Doesn't really affect this league much right now, version 9 is good enough.

[leecemark]

--I purchased the 1971-80 seasons yesterday so the CKL is good to go for quite awhile. If DMB does decide to close down at some point I assume they'd offer an opportunity for people to stock up and I'd go as far into the future as possible at that point.

[mac195]

Anyone who isn't enthused about the '69 rookie crop, or just doesn't have time to scout all the players right now or attend the draft, should contact me about trading picks. I will trade matching future picks (from '70, '71, etc.) for '69 picks. For example, I'll give you my 3rd round pick in '70 for your 3rd round pick in '69.