The PCL...the Major League that 'should have been'.

[banko]

Seattle
Portland
Oakland
San Francisco
LA
Hollywood
San Diego
(?)

[banko]

Walter simply destroyed the game.

http://www.amazon.com/When-Was-Game-Triple-Collection/dp/B00005B32G

I weep for the young...who will have no recollection of 'real' professional baseball.

Yogi Berra.

When the players had 'off-season' jobs.


-Grandpaw Simpson'

[banko]

Back OT.

Dugdale Park.

http://content.lib.washington.edu/cgi-bin/viewer.exe?CISOROOT=/imlsmohai&CISOPTR=665&CISORESTMP=&CISOVIEWTMP=&CISOMODE=grid

[banko]

http://128.95.104.14/cgi-bin/viewer.exe?CISOROOT=/imlsmohai&CISOPTR=1866&CISORESTMP=&CISOVIEWTMP=&CISOMODE=bib

Notice the double-deck.

Again...outside of Wrigley LA...the only double-decked minor-league ballpark in America.

[Pinstripes]

Again...outside of Wrigley LA...the only double-decked minor-league ballpark in America.Wait... what?

1) What's "Wrigley LA"

2) There are (currently) several double deck ballparks in the minor leagues... so maybe I'm just misunderstanding what you're saying here.

[EdTarbusz]

(?)

Sacremento.

[Chevy114]

Wait... what?

1) What's "Wrigley LA"

2) There are (currently) several double deck ballparks in the minor leagues... so maybe I'm just misunderstanding what you're saying here.

Wirgley la is the duplicate, smaller version of the wrigley field you see in chicago. They owner of the cubs built one in la because he liked it so much.

Does anyone know if he own the la stars that played there?
Also did they build it to lure a pro team there? I know the stars were getting great attendence for a minor league team, but that doesn't mean they didn't want a pro team.

At the time the pcl was doing so well, it is hard to imagine now. It was the laste 50s to be exact and air conditioning was making more states finally liveable. They had no teams in California (the 3rd largest state and fastest growing state at the time!), no teams in texas (the 2nd largest state and another fast growing state!), Seattle had no pro baseball, and the list goes on. So having high attendence doesn't seem that far fetched since the closest teams would probably the midwest teams like chicago, milawaukee, and minnesota.

Some cities recovered from not having the pcl go pro like san diego, san fran, la, oakland, and seattle. But some cities never got the pro team that some say they deserve; such as portland, salt lake city, and sacramento; which all host pro basketball and seem to do well with it!

[alpineinc]

What's "Wrigley LA"


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N0vGWiB6ryU

[stlfan]

I remember during one of the "When it Was A Game" episodes they mentioned that players from the PCL got a paycut when going to the majors. They actually made more money playing in the PCL and left to go to the majors because it was "The Majors."

[six4three]

Interesting to note that the Wrigley Field in Los Angeles was named first - at the time, the other ballpark was still "Cubs Park."

I don't know if they wanted a pro team, per se - for years, the PCL had designs on becoming a third major league. They had great attendance, a long history, and paid as well as many major league clubs, meaning they could keep many homegrown stars playing on the West Coast.

"la stars"? I think you're confused - it was the home of the Los Angeles Angels (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Los_Angeles_Angels_%28PCL%29), who were bought by William Wrigley in 1921 (he sold them to Water O'Malley in 1957 so O'Malley could clear LA for his move west). The Stars were another team, not "LA" but Hollywood, who were owned by different people and rented out Wrigley Field for a time.

When the Giants moved to San Francisco, there was some local talk about renaming them after the Seals of the PCL, but nothing ever came of it, and I doubt that the team ever considered it.

[Chevy114]

Interesting to note that the Wrigley Field in Los Angeles was named first - at the time, the other ballpark was still "Cubs Park."

I don't know if they wanted a pro team, per se - for years, the PCL had designs on becoming a third major league. They had great attendance, a long history, and paid as well as many major league clubs, meaning they could keep many homegrown stars playing on the West Coast.

"la stars"? I think you're confused - it was the home of the Los Angeles Angels (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Los_Angeles_Angels_%28PCL%29), who were bought by William Wrigley in 1921 (he sold them to Water O'Malley in 1957 so O'Malley could clear LA for his move west). The Stars were another team, not "LA" but Hollywood, who were owned by different people and rented out Wrigley Field for a time.

When the Giants moved to San Francisco, there was some local talk about renaming them after the Seals of the PCL, but nothing ever came of it, and I doubt that the team ever considered it.

Sorry i did confus the stars and angels. I heard both teams had really good attendence. Didn't the giants have to play in seals stadium until candlestick was open? Also didn't the giants build a stadium for a year, but because of fog issues, they never used after the first year? Or was that the seals?

[MarcianoNY]

http://128.95.104.14/cgi-bin/viewer.exe?CISOROOT=/imlsmohai&CISOPTR=1866&CISORESTMP=&CISOVIEWTMP=&CISOMODE=bib

Notice the double-deck.

Again...outside of Wrigley LA...the only double-decked minor-league ballpark in America.

Alliance Bank Stadium, Syracuse, NY

[six4three]

Sorry i did confus the stars and angels. I heard both teams had really good attendence. Didn't the giants have to play in seals stadium until candlestick was open? Also didn't the giants build a stadium for a year, but because of fog issues, they never used after the first year? Or was that the seals?

Yes, the Giants played at Seals Stadium for the first two seasons while Candlestick was being built.

The single-year stadium was also the Seals - Ewing Field (http://www.outsidelands.org/ewing-field.php), 1914.

[Chevy114]

Yes, the Giants played at Seals Stadium for the first two seasons while Candlestick was being built.

The single-year stadium was also the Seals - Ewing Field (http://www.outsidelands.org/ewing-field.php), 1914.

I remember on digital ballparks they made a joke saying that san fran took more pics of ewing field in a year then they took of seals field the entire it was open. It looked nice outside of the fog issue!

[Brian McKenna]

I remember during one of the "When it Was A Game" episodes they mentioned that players from the PCL got a paycut when going to the majors. They actually made more money playing in the PCL and left to go to the majors because it was "The Majors."

I seriously doubt that was universal - probably the exception rather than the rule.

It should also be noted that the PCL players had a much longer season they had to commit to earn that salary.

The PCL was great for guys who:
1) didn't like the east coast
2) preferred California weather
2) preferred week-long series and resulting less travel

The PCL was a part of organized baseball and was subject to the draft for many years. Teams also had working agreements with ML clubs. So, it's deceiving to believe that the PCL hoarded some great slew of talent that wasn't available to MLB.

[Chevy114]

Wikipedia makes it sound like the pcl was like the aba of the baseball. They spent a lot of money to compete with mlb and played more games, giving players more time to hown their skills.

[six4three]

True, they played more games, but it's been commonly reported that the average salary in the PCL was comparable with the average salary in the majors. Now, obviously, the best players would go to the majors, but your average ballplayer could stay in San Francisco or Los Angeles and make as much if not more money than he would have in Philadelphia or Washington.

As for drafting players, the Open classification granted in 1952 allowed PCL teams to protect their players from being drafted. So yes, for the last part of its existence, the time in which the PCL was making a real attempt to join the majors, they could keep talent away from the AL and NL.

[spark240]

Some cities recovered from not having the pcl go pro like san diego, san fran, la, oakland, and seattle. But some cities never got the pro team that some say they deserve; such as portland, salt lake city, and sacramento; which all host pro basketball and seem to do well with it!

The Pacific Coast League was (and, for that matter, still is) "pro," and all the cities mentioned did have professional baseball before MLB ever moved to the west coast (and, for that matter, still do).

You mean "major league," not "pro."

(This thread maybe should go to History?)

[banko]

Alliance Bank Stadium, Syracuse, NY

Sorry.

Correction.

Up until the 'modern era', Wrigley Field in LA and Dugdale Park were the only double-decked ballparks.

As to outfield bleachers in the minor leagues...

I'm unaware of any in any but the PCL.

http://www.history.pdx.edu/guildslake/thefair/vaughn2.htm

[banko]

"A near-major league

In the first half of the 20th century, the Pacific Coast League developed into one of the premier regional baseball leagues. The cities enfranchised by the other two high-minor leagues, the International League and the American Association, were generally interwoven geographically with the major leagues. Such was not the case with the PCL. With no major league baseball team existing west of St. Louis, the PCL was unrivaled as the vehicle for American west coast baseball. Although never recognized as a true major league, the quality of play was considered very high. Drawing from a strong pool of talent in the area, the PCL produced a number of outstanding players, including future major-league stars Joe DiMaggio, Ted Williams, Tony Lazzeri, Paul Waner, Earl Averill, and Ernie Lombardi.

While many PCL stars went on to play in the major leagues, teams in the league were often successful enough that they could offer competitive salaries to avoid being outbid for their stars' services. Some players made a career out of the minor leagues. One of the better known of those was Frank Shellenback, whose major league pitching career was brief [1] but who compiled a record PCL total of 295 wins, against 178 losses. [2]

In addition, the mild climate of the West Coast, especially in California, allowed the league to play longer seasons, sometimes starting in late February and ending as late as the beginning of December. This allowed players to potentially hone their skills more sharply, and also to earn an extra month or two worth of pay and reduce the need to find offseason work, something which even some major league players found necessary because of the low salaries, by today's standards. The longer playing season also provided room for additional games on the schedule, giving team owners a chance at generating more revenue.

Teams sometimes played over 200 games in a single season. The high-water mark was the 1905 season, in which the San Francisco Seals set the all-time PCL record by playing in 230 games (PCL Record Book, p.30). Even just prior to the 1958 reshuffling, the league was playing 170-180 games per season. One consequence of such lengthy seasons was that a number of the all-time minor league records for season statistical totals are held by players from the PCL.

In 1952, the PCL became the only minor league in history to be given the "Open" classification, a step above the AAA level. This limited the rights of major league clubs to draft players from the PCL, and was seen as a step toward the circuit becoming a third major league."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pacific_Coast_League

In 1958, the move of the Dodgers 'put a knife thru my heart'

(I've since recovered)

[banko]

The Pacific Coast League was (and, for that matter, still is) "pro," and all the cities mentioned did have professional baseball before MLB ever moved to the west coast (and, for that matter, still do).

You mean "major league," not "pro."

(This thread maybe should go to History?)

Nope.

I LOVE ballparks.

This is a ballpark site.

Let's have some more posting on the great minor league parks.

I am reminded of that great post (author not remembered) about the thrill of a young boy...as he ascended the stairs...to enter that 'Green Cathedral.

As the groundskeepers were liming the baselines.

This site is about minutia...like scoreboards, and warning tracks.

I like that.

[banko]

Interestingly, the light standards at Cheney Stadium...where I also saw a young Juan Marichal...were from Seals Stadium.

http://www.geocities.com/bigghoti/minors/tacoma.htm

[banko]

(for the kids)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juan_Marichal

[banko]

I got to see Juan pitch...as a young man...in the cathedrals that were Sick's Stadium and Cheney Stadium.

Trust me...the batters NEVER 'crowded the plate'.

Thx again for the love and hard work of the posters here...who have 'warmed the cockles' of this old man's heart.

[banko]

'Eat your hearts out', youngins.

"One regular-season game in Marichal's career deserves mention, involving him and Milwaukee Braves' Hall of Famer Warren Spahn in a night contest played July 2, 1963, before almost 16,000 at Candlestick Park in San Francisco. The two great pitchers matched goose-eggs until Giants superstar Willie Mays homered off Spahn to win the game 1-0 — in the 16th inning. Both Spahn and Marichal tossed complete games, something that almost certainly will never happen again in the big leagues. Marichal allowed eight hits in the 16 innings, striking out 10, and saddling eventual former career home-run king Hank Aaron with an 0-for-6 collar. Spahn permitted nine hits in 15 and one-third innings, walking just one (Mays intentionally, in the 14th, after Harvey Kuenn's leadoff double) and striking out two. The game, almost the innings-duration of two contests, lasted only 4 hours, 10 minutes."

[banko]

Pardon me...but I 'love you guys so much it hurts'.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_9z7mTm9p8

The work it takes you to post about America's true cathedrals is simply amazing.

You 'bring tears to my eyes'...and I can't thank you enough.

[six4three]

Sorry.

Correction.

Up until the 'modern era', Wrigley Field in LA and Dugdale Park were the only double-decked ballparks.

As to outfield bleachers in the minor leagues...

I'm unaware of any in any but the PCL.

http://www.history.pdx.edu/guildslake/thefair/vaughn2.htm

The Milwaukee Brewers of the American Association had them at Borchert Field. Also interesting to note that if the Braves hadn't moved to Wisconsin right after Spring Training in 53, the Brewers would have had a double-decked ballpark....

[Chevy114]

The Pacific Coast League was (and, for that matter, still is) "pro," and all the cities mentioned did have professional baseball before MLB ever moved to the west coast (and, for that matter, still do).

You mean "major league," not "pro."

(This thread maybe should go to History?)

I thought the minors were considered semi-professional and the majors were professional?

[six4three]

Nope.

In modern parlance, pro means it's a full-time job. Semi-pro means that you're getting paid, but not so much that you can give up your day job. Amateur, of course, means you don't get paid at all.

It's a relatively recent construction, though. Remember, Yogi Berra and Phil Rizzuto used to sell suits in the off-season. :D

Throughout the 20th Century, the majors and the minors were both professional. Just different strata within that profession.

[Chevy114]

Nope.

In modern parlance, pro means it's a full-time job. Semi-pro means that you're getting paid, but not so much that you can give up your day job. Amateur, of course, means you don't get paid at all.

It's a relatively recent construction, though. Remember, Yogi Berra and Phil Rizzuto used to sell suits in the off-season. :D

Throughout the 20th Century, the majors and the minors were both professional. Just different strata within that profession.

oh ok, cool to learn!

I saw a documentry about the brooklyn dodgers and they showed jackie robinson and maybe pee wee reese selling washers and dryers at a store in the off season. People said you would see them on the subway going to work and you could talk to them like everyone else, how cool!

[six4three]

It sure was a different time.