The check swing

[LAball]

There was a prior post with video of a PRO with a full swinging and then doing a check swing.

I think that is THEEEEE goal for me to have. Launch, with full intent, into a full swing and easily stop the bat half way through the swing. At about 45 degree to perpindicular of the ball. If I could do that.... the rest is history.:cap:

Btw I hate missing these weekend debates as I am out running around with my son. There is like a post every minute if the topic is hot.

C:\Documents and Settings\Chuck\Desktop\IMG_1440.jpg

[Jake Patterson]

There was a prior post with video of a PRO with a full swinging and then doing a check swing.

I think that is THEEEEE goal for me to have. Launch, with full intent, into a full swing and easily stop the bat half way through the swing. At about 45 degree to perpindicular of the ball. If I could do that.... the rest is history.:cap:
Why do you feel this would help?

[LAball]

Why do you feel this would help?

1. Its an easy test. Either you can or cant do it. No ifs, ands, or butts:rofl: about butts, hands, hips, shoulders, or, legs.

2. It should give me good control of the bathead during initial launch phase which should equal adjustability.

[Mark H]

If by adjustability you mean the ability to check the swing then yeah, working on checking the swing will do it but checking the swing will work another way relative to adjustability since check swing drills promote good connection thus making you quicker thus giving you more time to adjust before decision. Check swings/stop swings are a good check of a lot of things. Get after it. :)

[CoachHenry]

I'm going to make something simplistic for the sake of this discussion......

When I talk to my players about deciding to swing the bat, what I tell them is that they ONLY decision they have to make is to NOT swing. That way on each and every pitch you are gettin your body and mind ready to take a cut. If you recognize that you should not swing, don't. That could result in a check-swing, etc.

If you go the opposite route and wait to decide to swing then it is difficult to get things in motion properly and everything is rushed.

[Mark H]

Perhaps I'm the one with the wrong impression by I'm not talking about what you are talking about though I agree with your point. I'm talking about a check swing drill that stops the bat quickly at about contact.

[CoachHenry]

Ah. Maybe I am off. But to what you are talking about I've never done a drill like that and don't think I would. I would rather do the "The only decision you have is to not swing" and then from about 20 feet sitting behind an L-screen pitch them balls in and out of the strike zone. On the ones that are out they are to "decide not to swing". You should see them prepare and get their mechanics going but then "not swing". This drill might accomplish the same thing as what you are looking for and in addition they are getting some strike zone training. Make sure they are always think "Swing, unless I decind not to". If you don't see the body preparing they aren't thinking swing first.

[LAball]

My thoughts are more in line with Mark H. I am talking about the physical aspect of the swing, while it seems Coach H is talking about the mental part.

Mark H described it right whether you believe in PCR or not. The ability to check a hard swing means you have connection. I feel my BODY is connected to my bat and not just my arms.

[Ursa Major]

Coach Henry said:When I talk to my players about deciding to swing the bat, what I tell them is that they ONLY decision they have to make is to NOT swing. That way on each and every pitch you are gettin your body and mind ready to take a cut.That's a nice way of saying it, Coach. I think I'll steal it. For some reason, for the last few games some of our mid-level hitters have started to watch perfect strikes go by. Pitchers pick up on it and they throw meatballs on the first pitch. And, I think part of the problem is the "I'll only swing if it's a good pitch."

Beyond this, it sounds like folks are mixing together a lot of wholly separate hitting issues that might be addressed by a check swing drill. If all you want to do is to see where you are at contact, I would recommend that you take Mankin's advice and hit into a heavy bag, so you're not artificially slowing the bat in order to check your swing. By doing so, you might not get a true picture of what is happening at contact.

If you want to do something to check on your connection and your ability to keep the bat lagged back toward the catcher until the last moment, something like a check swing/"Englishbey Drill No. 1" drill has it uses. A by-product of this is to make it easier to check your swing in a game, as it's easier to stop the bat when it's still pointed back toward the catcher than it is when the hitter has let the bathead cheat forward toward the hitting zone earlier in the swing process.

I'm a little curious about Mark H's comment that "check swing drills promote good connection thus making you quicker thus giving you more time to adjust before decision". This sounds like a lot to expect from one drill, but, if MarkH says it, I've gotta believe it's true.

[CoachHenry]

That's a nice way of saying it, Coach. I think I'll steal it.

If you want to do something to check on your connection and your ability to keep the bat lagged back toward the catcher until the last moment, something like a check swing/"Englishbey Drill No. 1" drill has it uses. A by-product of this is to make it easier to check your swing in a game, as it's easier to stop the bat when it's still pointed back toward the catcher than it is when the hitter has let the bathead cheat forward toward the hitting zone earlier in the swing process.



Steal away. I don't remember but I'm sure I stole it from someone else.

As for Englishbey's Drill No. 1, that's a good drill to demonstrate and get used to the very first opportunity to check your swing if you are approaching (again mental) with the "I only have to decide to NOT swing" thought. I have my kids do that drill quite a bit in pre-season and is part of their on-deck ritual.

[Ursa Major]

As for Englishbey's Drill No. 1, that's a good drill to demonstrate and get used to the very first opportunity to check your swing if you are approaching (again mental) with the "I only have to decide to NOT swing" thought. I have my kids do that drill quite a bit in pre-season and is part of their on-deck ritual.I try to teach that drill to kids, but I'm working with teenagers who are dubious if you tell them that the sun will be rising in the East. Just starting talking about the need to lag the bathead back during rotation in order to take advantage of the law of conservation of angular momentum, and watch their eyes glaze over.

One of my disappointments this year is a kid who is generally a very good hitter and I know he can get it right, because he'll often come up with a perfect swing. My part of our pre-game ritual is throwing soft-toss, where I tell him to keep his hands in and keep the bat lagged back as he rotates. I even have explained these drills to him. He nods and does it perfectly for one swing, then the next swing he straightens his left arm and prematurely unhinges his hands, and we end up with a straight arm beer softball league swing. Then he goes out for the game and hits these glorious lazy flies into centerfield to the oohs and ahhs of the crowd, but is batting maybe .133, and he can't be convinced that there's something wrong with that.

[CoachHenry]

Then he goes out for the game and hits these glorious lazy flies into centerfield to the oohs and ahhs of the crowd, but is batting maybe .133, and he can't be convinced that there's something wrong with that.

That's like the softball guy who has warning track power but every 1 in 20 at bats hits it out so it's worth the other 19 pretty fly outs.

It would be difficult to deal with kids who just don't see the value in listening. One of the traveling teams that my son played on the kids were very successful in league but not in tourneys where the level of play was higher. The biggest reason what that their mechanics did not allow them to handle the faster pitching, location and speed changes, etc. So in the pre-season of us joining the team I was asked to handle the hitting. So we had pre-season hitting, individual time, etc. I quickly seen that about three of the kids really responded to that but the others only got a marginal benefit for some of the same things you mentioned. I tried to relate to each player on their level but most were there for the entertainment of playing baseball while the ones that really took to the instruction were there for the competition (and therefore enjoyment) of playing baseball. Big difference.

[korp]

If you have the full intent of swinging its practically impossible to stop. To be able to stop you have to recognize the pitch and or location. Thats the main thing .. most of the time you shouldn't check swing anyways it mainly happens when you are fooled. Just practice recognizing the pitch and you are golden --- being able to stop the bat though has to do with strength.

[Jake Patterson]

I always felt ... "Swing, swing, swing - NO!" is easier than "Look, look, look swing!"
Make sense?

[LAball]

Ibeing able to stop the bat though has to do with strength.

I think it has to do with not unhinging the wrist. Once the wrist goes its very hard to stop with you puny wrist muscles. Question is , how far into the rotation of the bat can you go before unhinging the wrist.

[Mark H]

Certainly a late uncocking/unhinging of the wrists is a very good thing but I would add, if you stay connected, you can very quickly stop the swing well past home plate and after unhinging. Think about stop swings is, you can't do them very well with an unconnected swing. Makes them a good reality check.

[tom.guerry]

how do you check your swing after unhinging ?

[Mark H]

By staying connected. Can't do that with a Teacherman swivel. Some of the ULL girls hit dingers with a swing I would characterize as a stop swing.

[CoachB25]

LABall, you're referring to the Posada clip. Board Member took that video and realized that it was not synced correctly. It was, in fact, two frames off. Board Member, please correct me if I'm wrong in this assertion. We were told it was an honest error and yet, knowing that the clip is off, I have continued to see references to it on other sites and have not seen it reedited. Again, Board Member, please correct me if I'm wrong in this assertion and if so, I'll post an apology.

[tom.guerry]

i don't think you check an mlb swing after the wrist have unhinged.

i think a ULL homer may have resulted in the bat slowing to a near stop at contact becasue of an efficient collions between a light fast bat with a big trampolining sweetspot and a heavy ball going fast.

tankersley's dinger as a freshmen in the arizona elim game comes to mind.

[4for4]

i don't think you check an mlb swing after the wrist have unhinged.

I think you are mischarachterizing again. It's about a stop swing and how it can be an effective training tool.

i think a ULL homer may have resulted in the bat slowing to a near stop at contact becasue of an efficient collions between a light fast bat with a big trampolining sweetspot and a heavy ball going fast.

tankersley's dinger as a freshmen in the arizona elim game comes to mind.

Nah. Did you see Utley do it a couple of nights ago? Watch video.

[BoardMember]

You are correct Coach. Here is the re-sync'd clip, with the mis-sync'd clip below it:

http://i26.tinypic.com/1pe3d0.gif
http://i32.tinypic.com/2epoy2u.gif

LABall, you're referring to the Posada clip. Board Member took that video and realized that it was not synced correctly. It was, in fact, two frames off. Board Member, please correct me if I'm wrong in this assertion. We were told it was an honest error and yet, knowing that the clip is off, I have continued to see references to it on other sites and have not seen it reedited. Again, Board Member, please correct me if I'm wrong in this assertion and if so, I'll post an apology.

[LClifton]

In the clip on the right he was clearly not set up to push the fulcrum and prior to that he had not torqued the handle, so thankfully, he aborted the swing, saving himself a great deal of embarassment. :rofl:

I have a question, an honest one.
What was the purpose of the clip originally?
What is the significance of it being 2 frames off?
What was it synced "TO"? (The little round circle?)
:hp

[RayR]

Nah. Did you see Utley do it a couple of nights ago? Watch video.

How about today's?

http://midstatecarting.com/MTS/utleyhr41908.gif

[BoardMember]

Lorin, it related to the "check-decision" timing.

Rich used this clip to subtantiate his position that the check decision was made 2 frames from contact:

http://i30.tinypic.com/21b68w2.gif

I re-sync'd it to show the check decision was made at launch. Of course, he then claimed I "doctored the clip" to prove him wrong. I really pissed him off......again.......What else is new????:

http://i31.tinypic.com/2mer0ps.gif



In the clip on the right he was clearly not set up to push the fulcrum and prior to that he had not torqued the handle, so thankfully, he aborted the swing, saving himself a great deal of embarassment. :rofl:

I have a question, an honest one.
What was the purpose of the clip originally?
What is the significance of it being 2 frames off?
What was it synced "TO"? (The little round circle?)
:hp

[LAball]

Can you post the original Posada clip?:bowdown:

[BoardMember]

Can you post the original Posada clip?:bowdown:

I did. Its the first clip in my last post........

[tom.guerry]

rayr-

are you trying to demonstrate the check swing or the stop swing or something else with the utley clip ?