Thoughts on Travel Ball and How It Affects High School Ball

[Sonny]

I once read an article about the effects that competitive travel baseball was having on high school baseball programs. I guess I see it as a good and bad thing. Obviously, travel ball can afford a kid plenty of quality game time experience and plenty of reps, but on the other hand, overuse and the risk of injury (especially during the Middle/High School season) is a factor. I'm not an advocate for, or against travel baseball (my son has done this for three years now), but I am curious as to what many of you think. In our case, I do think that it helped prepare my son for his middle school team. At this point, he seems much more fundamentally sound than many of the other kids that haven't been afforded the opportunity to play travel ball. Additionally, what do you think about travel teams scheduling tournaments during the school baseball schedule (weekends)? One of our local school programs will prohibit their players from doing both at the same time starting next year.

Thanks,
Sonny

[Chris O'Leary]

I once read an article about the effects that competitive travel baseball was having on high school baseball programs. I guess I see it as a good and bad thing. Obviously, travel ball can afford a kid plenty of quality game time experience and plenty of reps, but on the other hand, overuse and the risk of injury (especially during the Middle/High School season) is a factor. I'm not an advocate for, or against travel baseball (my son has done this for three years now), but I am curious as to what many of you think. In our case, I do think that it helped prepare my son for his middle school team. At this point, he seems much more fundamentally sound than many of the other kids that haven't been afforded the opportunity to play travel ball. Additionally, what do you think about travel teams scheduling tournaments during the school baseball schedule (weekends)? One of our local school programs will prohibit their players from doing both at the same time starting next year.

I think many of the best young arms are being destroyed by travel ball (due to tournaments and pitchers pitching multiple times during a weekend or even a day).

I think that's one reason why you see less home-grown pitching talent in the US.

[CoachHenry]

It is so situational to the team and coach. I see both sides of it around here. Over use and also good management of arms. On the rec side I see an inability to teach mechanics which has a negative effect as well. Of course you see kids in travel ball with crappy mechanics as well but more in rec.

I handled the pitching on my son's team most years when he traveled. Our league had overly-cautious rules regarding pitching but the reason they were there was to protect against jackass coaches who would push good sense. Outside the league tournaments couldn't be enforced concerning pitching rules so overuse still happens.

Some feel that kids don't throw ENOUGH and that is why they get injured when going to HS. In some cases I'm sure that is true.

One way to combat overuse is to develop more pitchers on your team. I know that with how games fall it is tough for teams to keep many pitchers sharp but that is why we increased the number of kids on our team from 12 to 14 (sometimes one more). We would have kids working in the bullpen on days that we couldn't get them in a game or rainouts or this and that. We found that by doing that we had more sharp pitchers available to us, kids were active during games while on the bench, etc.

[Encinitas]

Who was the guy on one of these sites who said he listened to the "who needs travel ball" type advice that is often rampant on the boards.

His kid tries out for HS and gets cut. The kids who made all played a lot of travel ball according to the dad. Their skills were more refined, etc. Anyway his story was quite contrary to the typical response see on the "internets".

No matter what you do it's all about balance. My little one who is 10, I coached a little 10U fall USSSA team and we played maybe 10 games and didn't play tournaments. That's more than enough for him. Other kids would leave after my game and play for another travel team. Those kids can't seem to get enough baseball. So what? If my son were screaming at me "dad I want to play for a real team" I'd do it for him. We do not keep the team together during little league and all-stars.

It's basically about what does your kid want to do. Some kids really do seem to like playing on a rec team and two travel ball teams here in SD. Mine don't, but who am I to sit back and judge.

Also another pattern I see is some of the "anti"-travel ball dads (who's kids can never seem to hit by the way) down here are all well-connected in the local high schools. They tend to be the most intense during the Rec Ball (little league) seasons. Mainly because that is all their son is playing so they take Rec ball like it's life or death. One this year finally agreed to let his kid play travel ball and the guy has mellowed out. He actually lets other kids pitch now, and try positions because he is coming to understand, that Rec-Ball just means more At-Bats, so why get so excited?

[Jake Patterson]

I brought this over from another thread....

Here's what I think...

I feel the proliferation of TB has hurt the game. 70% of children who play quit before the age of 13. One of the key reasons is it is no longer fun- they're burnt out by over-zealeous parents who feel "we have Jr.'s best interest at heart." Believe me I made the same mistakes and baseball is not like travel soccer. In travel soccer kids get tired, in travel baseball kids get hurt.. Here's what I recommend

1. U12 - Little League or similar rec league and Fall ball. This is plenty! 25-35 Games is more than enough.

2. 13-15 - MS/HS plus one other short season, be that Jr. League, Jr. Legion or AAU. 40-50 games.

3. 16+ - HS and Legion ball. If Legion is not available then one short season with a TB team. 50-60 games.

NONE should be played at the same time and I recommend a break between the two. Year round baseball is bad no matter what anyone tells you for prebubescent and pubescent players. Even the games very best take 5 months off.

Quotes like:
"My kid needs to play year round in order to keep his skills up."
"If he wants to be the best he needs to hitting/throwing every day."
"Hey this kid is special."
"If he doesn't play 100 games he'll be left behind."
Etc...
Are usually more about the parents than it is the players.

Hope this helps...
Jake

[wogdoggy]

you can say what you want but in travel your kid will get many more quality at bats against better pitching,that experience will never be had in a rec league..

he WILL generally play better competition...


in high school the coach will look at the kid with the best hitting ability, arm strength, speed and defense..and of course size..

like the coach mentioned i dont care if you played on the mud dogs or the tad poles..

[CoachHenry]

I haven't seen anything close to 70% of the kids who play travel ball quit by the age of 13. If that is how it is in your area, they something is wrong in your area. I see far, FAR more kids who played rec ball quit then I did travel kids. FAR more.

[Stealth]

Jake - in a perfect world I would agree with you.

However, the kids who play travel in my area are hands down better than 90% of the kids who play rec ball. The rosters of the varsity teams are made up of these travelball players and the top 10% of rec players.

Just yesterday I watched a rec game of 13's. The kids literally had trouble catching the ball. It's just the way it is...........agree or disagree times have changed.

[wrstdude]

I haven't seen anything close to 70% of the kids who play travel ball quit by the age of 13. If that is how it is in your area, they something is wrong in your area. I see far, FAR more kids who played rec ball quit then I did travel kids. FAR more.

I agree. I've been around the current 15Us in my area since they were 9 and I keep seeing the same kids on the same teams-if not more....weird.

[CoachHenry]

Jake - in a perfect world I would agree with you.

However, the kids who play travel in my area are hands down better than 90% of the kids who play rec ball. The rosters of the varsity teams are made up of these travelball players and the top 10% of rec players.

Just yesterday I watched a rec game of 13's. The kids literally had trouble catching the ball. It's just the way it is...........agree or disagree times have changed.

That is how it is on our area as well.

I'd also like to say that I'm a big fan of the rec system. I wish that the systems would embrace the fact that there are different layers to kid's abilities and deal with it. However they can't since the parents would scream about their kid not being on the higher level team and so forth. So, each year someone with an an all-star rec team gets an idea that they need to go traveling and off they go.

[BallCoach06]

As a HS coach, I will give you my .02.

First off, travel ball means nothing to me as a HS coach. I hear all the time from parents about what travel team their son has played on, how good he played on his travel team, etc., etc., etc.,. To be honest, I don't care. I am not trying to sound like I have an ego, but I don't care what they did when they were age 6-14, I only care about the future and how they fit into our program for the next 4 years.

We have freshman tryouts every year and I would say each year of the 22-25 we keep, 1/2 have played travel ball and 1/2 have not.

Here is my biggest thing with the incoming players I have seen the past few years. The kids that come in do not seem to have baseball instincts. They do not understand situations, how to play the game, etc. Bottom line, they do not appear to be getting coached on the game. The coaches that coach these teams hand pick the best kids at those levels and play games, but many don't take the time to coach, teach, and develop the kids. The kids simply get by on talent. When I was at the ABCA convention this past January, a speaker made a joke about travel and AAU coaches. He stated that in his opinion coaches that can't coach, coach AAU and travel teams. They handpick who they want, fill out the lineup cards, send them out to play, and then pumps his chest with how many wins he gets.

Now, these are just my observations, so other coaches may say different things. I am not saying all travel ball is bad. Some travel ball players really do understand the game and situations, etc., so I am just speaking on the whole from what I have seen.

Bottom line, I am ok with travel ball to a point. IMO, I think it should be either travel ball or little league not both. Take the time to practice and play, and not just play.

[bbjunkie]

My son played LL only up til age 12. Because he was affected by the age change rule, he had two 12yo years. After the first one he played a short season of travel fall ball. That was good because he got to adjust to the big field in a low stress situation. The coaching was good and laid back.

After his second 12yo year he played BR 13-15 and had a great time doing that. Playing on the big field with all 15 yo's but one 14yo. They made it to the league championship game where they got blown out by a very good team. Again, good experience. He found out he could keep up with older local studs, none of whom had ever played travel.

The next year, as an 8th grader, he played JV during the school year and then on a 13U travel team until August. Before that season the travel team had weekly practices all winter. We found those practices to be the best feature of the travel experience. He got a solid grounding in all the fundamentals and got a lot of reps.

The travel season itself, from my perspective, cost way too much and involved way too much travel. I don't think any of the kids' skills improved significantly during the course of the season itself. Whatever they came in with, they left with. In fact, if anything, my son's pitching skills deteriorated. He was not one of the first three pitchers (the coaches' sons) and therefore pitched irregularly. That would have been fine if there was some way for us to know when he was going to be called on. But, because we didn't know, I didn't want to work with him outside of games because I didn't want to overuse his arm. And, his hitting was not as good as it had been the previous year. Also, I think everyone concerned was burned out by the end of the season.

I've thought a lot about whether his relatively poor performance in travel ball was because of superior competition. It is true that he faced and played with a few kids who were very good. But it is also true that the previous year he played with and against the best 15yo's in our region as a 12yo and did very well.

This year he's playing JV again and it remains to be seen how that will go. Yesterday they had their first game and lost 6-5. He relieved the starting pitcher with one out in the fourth inning, four runs in and two on base. He set down the next two batters, but not before they scored another run. The top of the 5th the first batter dribbled a grounder to him and he made a routine throw to 1st. The first baseman dropped the ball. That runner advanced to third on a steal and a passed ball and scored on a sac fly. He set down the next 9 batters in order, four on K's. He turned a couple very good fielding plays at 2nd base and commited one error on a tough play.

So, what does that tell us. His experience yesterday was essentially a continuation of the kind of ball he played before travel. From what I observed, in general the caliber of player in travel is better than in rec leagues. But, the best travel players are no better than the best school and rec league players. He learned one big thing in travel, discipline and how to conduct himself on a well organized team.

I think that the only real advantage of travel ball is the possibility of having highly competent coaching. Many of the best rec and school players benefit from having fathers or local coaches who know what they're doing and work with the kids outside of regular practice. Unfortunately, the quality of local coaching is variable in the extreme. If the kids aren't being taught the basics properly, they are way behind the curve when they get to HS.

So, my take is that the quality of local coaching is paramount in determining how good the kids' baseball experiences are, and in the quality of players coming through the programs. I've taken it as something of a personal crusade to improve the knowledge and abilities of local coaching. Of course, I'm running up against the usual resistance to something new, but I think inroads are being made that could eventually turn this town into a regional baseball powerhouse. And, I've gotta say, it's a lot more fun for the kids playing with the kids they play with and against throughout their childhoods. More fun for the coaches and parents too.

[Stealth]

The coaches that coach these teams hand pick the best kids at those levels and play games, but many don't take the time to coach, teach, and develop the kids.

That is true in some cases. Some of these teams pull kids from all over and never have time to practice.

There are however some very well coached teams that I have seen.

[Baseball gLove]

I once read an article about the effects that competitive travel baseball was having on high school baseball programs. I guess I see it as a good and bad thing. Obviously, travel ball can afford a kid plenty of quality game time experience and plenty of reps, but on the other hand, overuse and the risk of injury (especially during the Middle/High School season) is a factor. I'm not an advocate for, or against travel baseball (my son has done this for three years now), but I am curious as to what many of you think. In our case, I do think that it helped prepare my son for his middle school team. At this point, he seems much more fundamentally sound than many of the other kids that haven't been afforded the opportunity to play travel ball. Additionally, what do you think about travel teams scheduling tournaments during the school baseball schedule (weekends)? One of our local school programs will prohibit their players from doing both at the same time starting next year.

Thanks,
Sonny

CIF (California Interscholastic Federation) prohibits play or practice by any varsity player in any outside league during the official sport season (I believe there are waivers for Team USA). This is does not apply to JV or Frosh ball, but would render them unavailable for call up to the varsity squad. During the regular season, a freshman, JV and varsity has baseball 5-6 days a week including 2-4 games a week. I don't know how to fit in anymore baseball into my son's schedule without risking a breakdown physically and even perhaps wear him out on the sport. Now my son will be going to the Junior Olympics with his travel team and will miss 10 days of summer high school ball.

[hawkiirock]

i agree. The city league around here is a joke. The travel ball is great as long as the kids arent pushed too hard. WE take 1 weekend off per month. We dont play in the fall or winter. So they do baseball from march(practice only) to middle of july. Tourneys from april-july..

Most of the kids are sad it is over and all of them cant wait for it to start. I do watch my pitchers closely. that is why every kid on my team pitches. Some more than others but not by a large margin and none of them pitch the maximum allowed

you can say what you want but in travel your kid will get many more quality at bats against better pitching,that experience will never be had in a rec league..

he WILL generally play better competition...


in high school the coach will look at the kid with the best hitting ability, arm strength, speed and defense..and of course size..

like the coach mentioned i dont care if you played on the mud dogs or the tad poles..

[TG Coach]

I once read an article about the effects that competitive travel baseball was having on high school baseball programs. I guess I see it as a good and bad thing. Obviously, travel ball can afford a kid plenty of quality game time experience and plenty of reps, but on the other hand, overuse and the risk of injury (especially during the Middle/High School season) is a factor. I'm not an advocate for, or against travel baseball (my son has done this for three years now), but I am curious as to what many of you think. In our case, I do think that it helped prepare my son for his middle school team. At this point, he seems much more fundamentally sound than many of the other kids that haven't been afforded the opportunity to play travel ball. Additionally, what do you think about travel teams scheduling tournaments during the school baseball schedule (weekends)? One of our local school programs will prohibit their players from doing both at the same time starting next year.

Thanks,
Sonny

Three freshmen at our high school are starting on the JV team rather then being in the freshman team. What do they have in common? They played USSSA Majors at 13U and 14U. The speed of the high school game is not over their head. They will start on varsity next year. Two of the three may get called up before this season is over.

The two hitters saw 80+ every Sunday in elimination travel games in 13U and 14U. They saw breaking pitches frequently. They played in pressure situations. They played the game at a fast speed. One kid only pitches. One of the other kids pitches. What did they gain in travel? They faced loaded lineups every time they pitched. It was never an easy lineup with two or three tough hitters to get by.

The downside of travel is if a team doesn't have a deep, quality pitching staff and burns up pitchers to win. Also, I don't believe kids need to be playing 75-100 travel games in their preteens. I don't believe whether a kid plays 46/60 or 50/70 in his preteens makes any difference at all in middle school. It's still a change in field size. The kids who haven't played open bases but are talented, pick up the new (to them) part of the game quickly.

Last year (8th grade and 14U) my son played on a travel team that started it's season concurrently with the middle school season. Most of the kids on the team didn't have middle school ball. My son didn't pitch for the travel team until his school season was over.

In 7th grade/13U we had a team full of pitchers playing middle school ball for an overlap of two tournaments. I communicated with the various coaches to make sure they had priority use and I didn't pitch the kids too much.

[TG Coach]

I haven't seen anything close to 70% of the kids who play travel ball quit by the age of 13. If that is how it is in your area, they something is wrong in your area. I see far, FAR more kids who played rec ball quit then I did travel kids. FAR more.

70% is the standard number of kids who quit playing baseball at age thirteen across the board, regardless of where they're playing. This number was around before the proliferation of travel ball.

[TG Coach]

Here is my biggest thing with the incoming players I have seen the past few years. The kids that come in do not seem to have baseball instincts. They do not understand situations, how to play the game, etc. Bottom line, they do not appear to be getting coached on the game. The coaches that coach these teams hand pick the best kids at those levels and play games, but many don't take the time to coach, teach, and develop the kids. The kids simply get by on talent. When I was at the ABCA convention this past January, a speaker made a joke about travel and AAU coaches. He stated that in his opinion coaches that can't coach, coach AAU and travel teams. They handpick who they want, fill out the lineup cards, send them out to play, and then pumps his chest with how many wins he gets.

It depends on the goals and objectives of the team. Our travel teams coaching staff is all former college and/or pro players. Our focus is training and development. When combined with the talent of the players, the team wins a lot. Last fall we played up a year or two in every tournament to challenge the players. They still played .500 ball because they could play the game right.

There are travel coached accumulating talent that don't know what they're doing. They disappear by 16U when there aren't any more early bloomers to recruit. The kids are now competing for high school varsity roster spots with hopes of a college future. The kids and the parents recognize these coaches can't help get them there and leave the team.

When we get to a tournament and I see a team holding a runner on third like a first baseman I think, "Are we going to put one on this team." Even if they're big and strong our kids will overtake them by being fundamentally sound and confuse the other team with aggressive play.

[TG Coach]

One other note. By high school age, high school sports are moving towards being irrelevant in terms of being recruited for college. The college prospects are playing for well coached travel teams with contacts. The teams play in showcases and other major tournaments. The new NCAA rules on recruiting are cutting back college recruiting window. The college coaches can see many prospects in one weekend at the right tournament rather than seeing prospects one at a time at a high school game.

[Encinitas]

Now if I were still living in Ohio I might not have signed the kids up for Travel Ball. However here in sunny SD you can play year around, and not have to go very far. I think my farthest trip was about 45 minutes.

Now when we first moved here and played on one of the "Elite" 8u teams our coach was pressuring me to take my son to Vegas. I told him look I'll be damned if I am dragging my 9 year old to Colorado Springs for a baseball tournament. "but we are nationally ranked"
"but we won an LA tournament so we are invited to all the big ones now".

Big deal. So we stopped playing and about half the dads were right there with me. Once we saw how cheap USSSA was, it was a no-brainer. No more $150/month plus splitting tournament fees, gas, etc. $150-$200 per player for the whole season. You want to pay $200/month to be on joe-blow HS Superstar/Low-A Ball dropout coach's team be my guest. As I told people you can still buy lessons from these guys.

Oh by the way, before I hear the daddy-ball cries, I was often asked by some of the parents to pitch my own kid more often (they obviously thought more of his pitching than I did) There is a flip side to not playing daddy-ball. My older son was on a team where we had "real coaches" who played up to high A or AA ball. Pitching decisions each week seemed odd to me, until I realized many of the kids were paying $60/hour for lessons on the side. How is that an improvement from daddy-ball? I have asked the parents if we want to keep up with our format or bring in a real coach and none of them want to change.

To me the sport is quickly becoming an upper-class game of privilege with the equivalent of tennis parents with little athletic ability but big mouths sticking their noses in everyone's business.

What's really aggravating around here now, is having to be on the right "feeder" teams in 8th grade (at a hefty cost of course) so that all the varsity coaches can see your kid. I feel sorry for a lot of these parents paying $2-$300 every month to be on the right travel team, plus playing on the 8th grade feeder team, etc.

[hawkiirock]

yeah i would say that the HS coaches post is wrong more times than right wrt to travel ball here.. The teams we play know what to do with the ball. They know different bunt defenses. They back up throws. They have plays for first and 3rd.
really can think of very few travel teams that would fit the HS coaches descriptionThat is true in some cases. Some of these teams pull kids from all over and never have time to practice.

There are however some very well coached teams that I have seen.

[Jake Patterson]

As a HS coach, I will give you my .02.

First off, travel ball means nothing to me as a HS coach. I hear all the time from parents about what travel team their son has played on, how good he played on his travel team, etc., etc., etc.,. To be honest, I don't care. I am not trying to sound like I have an ego, but I don't care what they did when they were age 6-14, I only care about the future and how they fit into our program for the next 4 years.
As a former HS coach I couldn't agree more.

[Jake Patterson]

CIF (California Interscholastic Federation) prohibits play or practice by any varsity player in any outside league during the official sport season (I believe there are waivers for Team USA). CT is the same.

[Ursa Major]

I repeated the thread's title, because folks have digressed and are talking about the effect of travel ball on individual kids, rather than on the HS game in general. TG Coach by contrast has made the salient point that baseball -- like a lot of HS-aged sports (like girls' soccer, for example) is becoming skewed by the desire of many coaches to have a few tournaments or showcases at which they can evaluate kids rather than having to travel around to multiple HS games (which is difficult to do given the tight scheduling of college games). So the incentive for kids to bolt from their HS teams is increasing. This exacerbates the lack of attractiveness of HS games for coaches, so kids who are late bloomers or can't afford travel ball don't get much exposure.

But, we shouldn't jump to conclusions that -- for an individual player -- playing on a travel ball team will automatically improve them more than playing on a HS or other youth (e.g., rec) team. Often, the top kids on travel teams are obsessed about baseball and improving at it and would be good players even without being on that squad -- they just want to play more games and to have a chance to be up against top competition. Maybe they've just bought into Daddy's obsession, but I rarely see kids in top flight travel ball who don't want to be there. If they'd really rather be playing the oboe, they'll have found a way to dig their heels in. And rec players can go find top level instruction on the side (even from the travel ball coaches whose teams they decide not to join) -- as Encinitas points out, ". . . you can still buy lessons from these guys."

Still, I think there may be an ultimate emotional cost. While the baseball success in some kids helps build their self-esteem, the bolting of rec ball for travel ball may sever them from the kids who live and go to school in their area and whom they learned the game with. And when they flame out -- as almost all will -- they can get to the "know what do I do?" stage. Or, to cling to some glory, they end up going to a Division II school that wants them even though their academics would get them into a Division 1 caliber school.

[bbjunkie]

I repeated the thread's title, because folks have digressed and are talking about the effect of travel ball on individual kids, rather than on the HS game in general.

When I wrote my post I used my son as an example because he is just about the only kid his age locally who has ever played travel. (There was one other kid who played one tournament with a travel team as a 12yo) Last year's V team placed second (by one out) in the region and was made up mostly of kids who never played travel. The only exception was one kid who played on a "showcase" team the summer before his senior year. Three other kids played Legion the summer before last year.

With those exceptions, all the kids who are currently playing HS ball have played only local rec and school ball. And, the rec league coaching is very uneven with the very best of those coaches being no better than decent. I don't yet know how the V team will do this year, but they're ranked #3 in the regional pre-season rankings. They are expected to do well in our conference because they usually do.

My point is that you don't need travel to build good HS programs. I would much much rather build strong local rec programs that are self sustaining over the years. That affords the kids whose parents can't afford travel or can't take the time out of their busy lives the opportunity to excel. Most of the travel kids I've gotten to know have parents who have poured money into their training and travel for years. Travel is an elitist system that primarily benefits those with the money to afford them.

[Jim W.]

I agree a lot with many posts as well as BallCoach06.

My youngest son is now in HS. I too have seen a lot of what HS coaches are talking about and we have very good travel teams around the Houston area.

I think, as previously mentioned, to let the kids have fun playing until 12-13YO. As they reach this age their maturity and understanding really begins to improve. I kid with the mental ability to see what he wants is more determined to go for it.

Find a top notch DEVELOPMENTAL coach and get him on the team. Rec or travel doesn't matter, find the coach that teaches the right things. Choose developmental over winning. Winning is great but not at all costs. Determining what "winning at all cost" means is what it means to you in regards to your son.

Like the HS coach, I have seen outstanding travel players that win national championships get to HS and not know some of the fundamentals. Ex: Pitchers not backing up 3rd or home, MI not talking or communicating properly, not knowing the difference between a two out lead off and a regular lead off at 2B, hitting for the team and not for average, outfield communication, bunt defense, bunt offense,,,,,,,,.......

Find a good coach (period).

[korp]

In my experience there never was a middle school team so it was either travel or little league. I prefer the more serious baseball so I stuck with travel because little league tends to be for every one to play and less competitive especially at the older ages. I do not think it takes away from high school ball but it will actually improve the skills and play during the season. The thing about travel is usually the better players play and others will either not play or play very little because they are less dedicated or don't have the money ect. Now if travel ball in high school ends up like jr hockey has then it will hurt high school ball but until that happens it can only help.

[TG Coach]

My point is that you don't need travel to build good HS programs. I would much much rather build strong local rec programs that are self sustaining over the years. That affords the kids whose parents can't afford travel or can't take the time out of their busy lives the opportunity to excel. Most of the travel kids I've gotten to know have parents who have poured money into their training and travel for years. Travel is an elitist system that primarily benefits those with the money to afford them.

Your point may be valid where you are. But it's not valid across the board. Rec kids in our area are not making varsity teams. The three freshman who played travel rather than Jr Legion are way ahead of their classmates and class above them. These freshman received varsity tryouts. They are the three best players on JV. JV competition is several notches below the 14U USSSA majors Sunday elimination competition they competed against last year. There is a freshman team.

The players and families of my son's travel team would be amused to disocover they're part of an elitist group. Nine of the thirteen families are blue collar. Many of them are the grandchildren of steelworkers. They're good baseball players. Good players get to play on good teams with financial backing. In addition to having former college and/or pro players as coaches, they get half off any training, cage or mound time and equipment at the baseball academy.

[TG Coach]

Like the HS coach, I have seen outstanding travel players that win national championships get to HS and not know some of the fundamentals. Ex: Pitchers not backing up 3rd or home, MI not talking or communicating properly, not knowing the difference between a two out lead off and a regular lead off at 2B, hitting for the team and not for average, outfield communication, bunt defense, bunt offense,,,,,,,,.......


While this is true, once this kid gets the right coaching he's going to bolt past the average player with solid fundamentals and leave him in the dust forever.

When D1 coaches scout high school players which player do you think they take: 1) the 90 mph pitcher with weak fundamentals, or 2) the 80 mph pusser with control?

The answer is #1. The coaches will work with his mechanics to turn him into a 93 mph pitcher with reasonable control. You can't teach talent. You can always improve fundamentals.

[wrstdude]

My point is that you don't need travel to build good HS programs. I would much much rather build strong local rec programs that are self sustaining over the years. That affords the kids whose parents can't afford travel or can't take the time out of their busy lives the opportunity to excel. Most of the travel kids I've gotten to know have parents who have poured money into their training and travel for years. Travel is an elitist system that primarily benefits those with the money to afford them.

This made me laugh. I'm sure my parents, who are quite poor, spend a good portion of their hard earned money so that they can feel "elitist"....

Can anyone explain to me what's wrong with parents spending the extra money, if they have it, so that their sons can get, what they feel, is the best instruction? It's their money, who are you to tell them how to spend it?

[bbjunkie]

Your point may be valid where you are. But it's not valid across the board. Rec kids in our area are not making varsity teams. The three freshman who played travel rather than Jr Legion are way ahead of their classmates and class above them. These freshman received varsity tryouts. They are the three best players on JV. JV competition is several notches below the 14U USSSA majors Sunday elimination competition they competed against last year. There is a freshman team.

My point was that there are very few travel players in our area. The rec programs, inadequate as they are, still produce players that do very well at the HS level and some who are recruited by good college programs.

The players and families of my son's travel team would be amused to disocover they're part of an elitist group. Nine of the thirteen families are blue collar. Many of them are the grandchildren of steelworkers. They're good baseball players. Good players get to play on good teams with financial backing. In addition to having former college and/or pro players as coaches, they get half off any training, cage or mound time and equipment at the baseball academy.

Serious travel teams (not counting the town teams that call themselves travel) anywhere near where I live, despite considerable corporate sponsorship, still cost a lot of money. The parents of your team may not consider themselves "elite" but they have a lot of disposable income if your program costs what ours do and they are free to travel with their kids. Local businesses, despite being pretty cash strapped themselves, are more than willing to support local teams and players. We are getting great support for the Legion team we're putting together. But, they are not going to put out money for the kind of travel teams my son played on.

[wogdoggy]

My point was that there are very few travel players in our area. The rec programs, inadequate as they are, still produce players that do very well at the HS level and some who are recruited by good college programs.



Serious travel teams (not counting the town teams that call themselves travel) anywhere near where I live, despite considerable corporate sponsorship, still cost a lot of money. The parents of your team may not consider themselves "elite" but they have a lot of disposable income if your program costs what ours do and they are free to travel with their kids. Local businesses, despite being pretty cash strapped themselves, are more than willing to support local teams and players. We are getting great support for the Legion team we're putting together. But, they are not going to put out money for the kind of travel teams my son played on.



it all depends who is the most physically mature and looks good during tryouts,,also kids who "project' well also get an extra look..


travel does provide experience more games and generally better playas.but again the coach doent care if you played in house or with the tad poles..

one thing about in house..we played in house until 10 yrs age and the KID absolutely loved playing against his friends..looked forward to shining in front of his buddies and bragging the next day at school..

[bbjunkie]

Can anyone explain to me what's wrong with parents spending the extra money, if they have it

The last four words are the key. If the parents of your kids are poor, the parents of mine must be destitute. If I were to suggest their kids would benefit from being on my son's travel team, and then tell them what it would cost in time and money, I would be laughed out of the room. Most simply can't afford it.

[Jake Patterson]

Bare in mind when considering travel versus rec that building a love for the game in many cases is much more important than building skill. The timing of both is critical and most parents disregard the former for the latter at the expense of the former.
Make sense??

[wrstdude]

The last four words are the key. If the parents of your kids are poor, the parents of mine must be destitute. If I were to suggest their kids would benefit from being on my son's travel team, and then tell them what it would cost in time and money, I would be laughed out of the room. Most simply can't afford it.

Trust me, our parents were no different. Our previous team worked extremely hard to make it affordable. My parent's haven't paid over $300 for an entire summer of baseball ~60 games. This was only due to car washes, knocking on doors selling pizzas and knocking on business' doors asking for money. It's amazing what kids will do when they REALLY want to play. Rather than scoff at the cost and say, "Well, looks like we're playing house ball against mediocre competition." our parents asked what can we do to make this work. I see that as the biggest difference between the two sets of parents...NOT their paychecks.

My brother's new team offers scholarships to those in need as they already have the financial backing of quite a few large sponsors. Now my parents aren't paying anything.

[Encinitas]

I personally know a kid who plays the same age group as my son although he's an 8th grader so he is feeling more intense pressure to get on a HS Freshman team next year. He plays Rec Ball, plays for two travel teams, practices with the 33 other 8th grade kids with the high school coaches "recommended" feeder team. They have to be shelling out over $300 a month plus I know they get hitting lessons for $60/hour on top of that.

My 13 plays on a Sunday League team and his manager was Cy Young winner back in the 90's. They hardly practice right now, they just show up and play some ball on Sundays. The cost extremely reasonable, and considering the two nice uniforms, playing on weekends, and the occasional "facility practices" we are practically playing for free. He's made his big money, so making a little scratch coaching kids is not something he's trying to do. In that regard I am quite lucky. His son is on the team I don't know if it's still Daddy-Ball, but it works for me and there is definitely no favoritism. I wish he'd pitch his kid more often to be honest.

However when I talk upper class sport or privileged elites I mean the 8-9-10 year old set paying $150-$225 a month for "real coaches".

[Stealth]

Some local kids are paying as much as $3400 (spring season only) for travel ball + hitting/pitching lessons in my area. The cost is way out of control for some of these programs. But people are paying it so these "real coaches" are doing well..........to say the least.

[Jim W.]

While this is true, once this kid gets the right coaching he's going to bolt past the average player with solid fundamentals and leave him in the dust forever.

When D1 coaches scout high school players which player do you think they take: 1) the 90 mph pitcher with weak fundamentals, or 2) the 80 mph pusser with control?

The answer is #1. The coaches will work with his mechanics to turn him into a 93 mph pitcher with reasonable control. You can't teach talent. You can always improve fundamentals.

That is why I said: "Find a good coach (period)." :)

[TG Coach]

The parents of your team may not consider themselves "elite" but they have a lot of disposable income if your program costs what ours do and they are free to travel with their kids.

We play ten tournaments. Nine are day trips. Only one is an overnight. The cost to play is $500. That's not a lot of money. That's saving $10 a week. Some of the kids find their own sponsors to take a bite out of the $500. A big difference may be four coaches giving away training rather than charging for it. There are pay to play academy teams charging over $3,000. To be on the team requires X amount of lessons. The players on these teams can't make the good travel teams. So they pay to play.

we played in house until 10 yrs age and the KID absolutely loved playing against his friends

My son played LL through age twelve. The all-star team played into August. It was a great time. The kids played some travel around LL. I believe the level of play in travel ball prepared them for all-stars. In don't believe travel is necessary before the teen years to become a high school player.

Some local kids are paying as much as $3400 (spring season only) for travel ball + hitting/pitching lessons in my area. The cost is way out of control for some of these programs. But people are paying it so these "real coaches" are doing well..........to say the least.

We had a two game break one Sunday. To kill part of the time I wandered over to the 10U field. The team was sponsored by an academy known for placing a lot of players in college ball. A dad told me he was paying about 3K a year. He said his son would play college ball because this program gets them there. I upset the guy when I told him the team places it's 18U players in college ball and a lot of these kids won't be around by 14U. By 16U the academy is recruiting talent. They want kids with college potential on the teams. What they do is refine talent and help with contacts for college ball.