watched 9yr old tourney today in Socal(throwing curve balls)

[callyjr]

We are on spring break vacation and there is sports complex less than a half mile from the house in Huntington Beach CA. There is usually a tourney every weekend of one age or another when we are here and its fun to go watch. last week there was 8u pitching tourney up to 13's. This week it is 9u. the distance is 43 feet I think, the 8u was 40 feet last week. The mechanics of these boys at 9 are really good and they are throwing high 40's if not in the 50's, one said after the game that they were facing 55 from a couple of those kids, it looked more like high 40's. Its doesn't matter what the speed was, they were throwing pretty well and the kids were leading off on the bases and each kid had a pretty good pick off move as well.

The reason for the post is to bitch a little I guess, team A which lost had his kid throwing curve balls at every batter, the kid pitched 5 of the 6 innings and had at least 1 curve ball if not 2 per batter. The sickest part is that the coach was coaching these kids like they were in HS. He was a very aggressive coach for a 9yr old. Yelling at them for most mistakes instead of well not yelling at them.

I listened to him talk to his team after the 3-2 loss and since they had a double header he was telling his team that he expected them to play better and he wanted the other team to not want to play them anymore because they are beating them so bad. It was really sad to hear this kind of coaching for 9yr olds.

I expected Socal coaching to be better, lot of things I did not expect to see or here.

Cally

[Jake Patterson]

We are on spring break vacation and there is sports complex less than a half mile from the house in Huntington Beach CA. There is usually a tourney every weekend of one age or another when we are here and its fun to go watch. last week there was 8u pitching tourney up to 13's. This week it is 9u. the distance is 43 feet I think, the 8u was 40 feet last week. The mechanics of these boys at 9 are really good and they are throwing high 40's if not in the 50's, one said after the game that they were facing 55 from a couple of those kids, it looked more like high 40's. Its doesn't matter what the speed was, they were throwing pretty well and the kids were leading off on the bases and each kid had a pretty good pick off move as well.

The reason for the post is to bitch a little I guess, team A which lost had his kid throwing curve balls at every batter, the kid pitched 5 of the 6 innings and had at least 1 curve ball if not 2 per batter. The sickest part is that the coach was coaching these kids like they were in HS. He was a very aggressive coach for a 9yr old. Yelling at them for most mistakes instead of well not yelling at them.

I listened to him talk to his team after the 3-2 loss and since they had a double header he was telling his team that he expected them to play better and he wanted the other team to not want to play them anymore because they are beating them so bad. It was really sad to hear this kind of coaching for 9yr olds.

I expected Socal coaching to be better, lot of things I did not expect to see or here.

Cally

Sounds like it's more about him than the kids. Shame on the parents.

[callyjr]

kinda looked that was as well.

[PhilliesPhan22]

Coaches like that are the reason why kids quit baseball and turn to other sports.

[Jake Patterson]

Coaches like that are the reason why kids quit baseball and turn to other sports.
There will always be coaches like that. Many are frustrated wanna be's who get their jolleys "building the character" of future players. I saw this type often when I was in the service.

Again I say shame on the parents...

[Baseball gLove]

.....

I expected Socal coaching to be better, lot of things I did not expect to see or here.

Cally

Wow, you have judged all SoCal coaching based an a single example of a poor excuse for a coach.

[PhilliesPhan22]

There will always be coaches like that. Many are frustrated wanna be's who get their jolleys "building the character" of future players. I saw this type often when I was in the service.

Again I say shame on the parents...


I agree. While I will encourage sports to my child (when he or she is born this year), I am not going to push it on them. It needs to be fun and should be something they enjoy.

[AltaLomaStorm]

Having coached in travel tournaments in So Cal for the past two years (10u and 11u) both callyjr and baseball gLove are both right. gLove because very few of the coaches are like what callyjr describes (as far as attitude goes). I have seen coaches pull kids in the middle of an inning for making an error and berate them as they jog off the field with tears in their eyes and their head down. They are the exception...as most of the coaches appear to have a desire to develop their kids through quality teaching and encouragement. Callyjr, however, is correct in his astonishment @ a kid that age throwing a curveball. No one on our travel team throws anything but a fastball and circle change, and I would not expect that to change anytime soon, as we don't want to risk a kid's arm just to say we won a tournament.

[callyjr]

Wow, you have judged all SoCal coaching based an a single example of a poor excuse for a coach.


No I just expected the top 9's teams in the state to have better quality coaching then that.

His post game comments were we just got beat by a good team, probably top 5 in the state and top 15 in the country and we were the better team out there. So assuming he says they lost to a top 5 team in the state then I would assume he thinks his team is in the top 4. I just didn't expect to hear and see what I did.

Our teams always do well, but you will never hear me putting a kid down nor will I be calling curve balls. Let the HS coaches do that.

Cally

[Encinitas]

No I just expected the top 9's teams in the state to have better quality coaching then that.

His post game comments were we just got beat by a good team, probably top 5 in the state and top 15 in the country and we were the better team out there. So assuming he says they lost to a top 5 team in the state then I would assume he thinks his team is in the top 4. I just didn't expect to hear and see what I did.

Our teams always do well, but you will never hear me putting a kid down nor will I be calling curve balls. Let the HS coaches do that.

Cally

Ha, Top 9 teams in the state I love it. 9 years old. I recall we once won a tournament at 8U (son is 10U now) near Huntington Beach (Winchester?), and we were suddenly nationally ranked.. Uhhh. yeah right. I wouldn't pay attention to these silly rankings at this age.

[Jake Patterson]

Ha, Top 9 teams in the state I love it. 9 years old. I recall we once won a tournament at 8U (son is 10U now) near Huntington Beach (Winchester?), and we were suddenly nationally ranked.. Uhhh. yeah right. I wouldn't pay attention to these silly rankings at this age.

The NFHS and the NCAA has their hands full with national rankings never mind some silly youth organization. Ranked anything at that age means nothing.

[Baseball gLove]

No I just expected the top 9's teams in the state to have better quality coaching then that.

His post game comments were we just got beat by a good team, probably top 5 in the state and top 15 in the country and we were the better team out there. So assuming he says they lost to a top 5 team in the state then I would assume he thinks his team is in the top 4. I just didn't expect to hear and see what I did.

Our teams always do well, but you will never hear me putting a kid down nor will I be calling curve balls. Let the HS coaches do that.

Cally

Best 9 year olds in the state? Give me a break. Who says? Was this USSSA? CABA? Little League? Babe Ruth? Pony? Pony Select? Many are just self serving daddy coached teams. Definitely a poor baseline to use as a measurement of SoCAL Coaching.

My son was in a league that had members of a 10U team that were supposedly the best in the USA. They were insufferably arrogant. Now six years later, they are just OK junior varsity material. Only one of them has decent arm strength.

You want to measure So Cal Coaching? Look at the dominance of SoCal High Schools vs the rest of country at the recent Anderson Bat National Invitational High School Classic. It included many Nationally ranked teams. West Linn High School from Oregon was there. They went 0-4.

[callyjr]

Best 9 year olds in the state? Give me a break. Who says? Was this USSSA? CABA? Little League? Babe Ruth? Pony? Pony Select? Many are just self serving daddy coached teams. Definitely a poor baseline to use as a measurement of SoCAL Coaching.

My son was in a league that had members of a 10U team that were supposedly the best in the USA. They were insufferably arrogant. Now six years later, they are just OK junior varsity material. Only one of them has decent arm strength.

You want to measure So Cal Coaching? Look at the dominance of SoCal High Schools vs the rest of country at the recent Anderson Bat National Invitational High School Classic. It included many Nationally ranked teams. West Linn High School from Oregon was there. They went 0-4.

Yes it was USSSA, I checked on the website and the team is ranked 4th and the team that loss was ranked 11th.

Went back today to watch some more abuse. Just finished watching the same team play. The coaches were still calling curves and they were blowing a lead in the 5th innings, error after error and all of the sudden the parents are pissed, the coaches are yelling at the kids(too funny). I guess I don't get to be on this side of the fence to often.

West Linn going 0-4 is not a surprise, but pat the coach on the back for taking his kids in the first place.

Cally

[Baseball gLove]

Yes it was USSSA, I checked on the website and the team is ranked 4th and the team that loss was ranked 11th.

Went back today to watch some more abuse. Just finished watching the same team play. The coaches were still calling curves and they were blowing a lead in the 5th innings, error after error and all of the sudden the parents are pissed, the coaches are yelling at the kids(too funny). I guess I don't get to be on this side of the fence to often.

West Linn going 0-4 is not a surprise, but pat the coach on the back for taking his kids in the first place.

Cally

9U rankings mean nothing. If I follow your example and judge all the coaches in Oregon based on one coach, one team, then your state really has horrible coaches and they can't buy a win. But I don't make generalizations based on just one team.

[TG Coach]

I expected Socal coaching to be better, lot of things I did not expect to see or here.

There are morons everywhere. Given there are more people in California there are more morons. Baseball knowledge isn't corralled in any one state. There are good coaches and bad coaches everywhere.

[callyjr]

9U rankings mean nothing. If I follow your example and judge all the coaches in Oregon based on one coach, one team, then your state really has horrible coaches and they can't buy a win. But I don't make generalizations based on just one team.

true, I'm actually in WA, but I get your point. no matter what these coaches/parents were so over board it made me sick.

Cally

[TG Coach]

No I just expected the top 9's teams in the state to have better quality coaching then that.

At the lower age groups coaches don't have to be good coaches to win. All they have to do is accumulate the biggest, strongest early bloommers they can find. You won't see these coaches by 16U. Once the field is leveled by most players being well through physical development and the game is really about coaching, these coaches don't have a chance. The parents realize the kids aren't being taught the game and bail with their kids.

[callyjr]

No I just expected the top 9's teams in the state to have better quality coaching then that.

At the lower age groups coaches don't have to be good coaches to win. All they have to do is accumulate the biggest, strongest early bloommers they can find. You won't see these coaches by 16U. Once the field is leveled by most players being well through physical development and the game is really about coaching, these coaches don't have a chance. The parents realize the kids aren't being taught the game and bail with their kids.

I have been listening over the last couple years and its made me a different coach then I think I would have been had you not been pounding this message home. My father has coached some 20 plus years and has helped coach our teams, he has that win win attitude, but never talks down to the kids. Different styles makes a good coach.

Cally

[Baseball gLove]

I have been listening over the last couple years and its made me a different coach then I think I would have been had you not been pounding this message home. My father has coached some 20 plus years and has helped coach our teams, he has that win win attitude, but never talks down to the kids. Different styles makes a good coach.

Cally

I believe that if kids are yelled at because they make mistakes, they become afraid to push their limits. I reward effort. I cheer the kid that goes down swinging or knocks down the ground ball that could have turned into extra bases. I don't tell kids what they did wrong. They already know if they made a mistake; they don't need me to tell them. I tell them to forget about it and give them more live arm bp or give them more ground balls, so that they have a better chance of hitting the ball or making the play the next time.

[Ursa Major]

There's a kid in our league who's the same age as my son, and his Dad started coaching early and made friends, so he's managed at every level opposite us. With my son on his team at 8u, he won the league championship mostly because he only put the top players in any position of responsibility (singlehandedly causing the league to create a rule requiring that all kids be given a chance to play in the infield in every game at that level).

The guy is still over the top and we have, in the five years we've played against him since, never worried about his teams, no matter how quickly they get out of the starting gate. Why? Because when it comes down the end of the season and the playoffs, his kids are so afraid of being yelled at that they get too cautious or melt down every time. I think he's still making excuses as to why his teams have never won a championship since.

[DerekD]

Ironically, my 10-year-old played for a guy like this last year. The guy had great knowledge but the kids almost feared him. It was a travel league with other 9-year-old teams. They tried to not mess up instead of playing to win. Now I'm working on getting his head back into the enjoyment of the game. I'm putting up instead of shutting up in a rec ball league that will obviously be a little more laid back. He's had some pitching lessons and a few hitting and pitching clinics and I've taken plenty of notes.

No curves for my 10-year-old. lol. He's learned a 4-seam, 2-seam, and I'm teaching him a change up this year.

[Drill]

I think its so cool that there are people like this, to help people realize the difference between good coaching and bad examples of coaching.

Nothing like a drill Sargent running a baseball team with the promise of a trophy and a pin and maybe some ice cream after the game is over. Yea they may have won but at what cost when it comes to the lowest child on the totem pole when it comes to mental stability. And the parents let there kids play for this coach, which is the sad thing. Maybe not some kids just want to play ball no matter who is coaching.


Oh well life goes on


I just remember the good ole days playing ball on a vacant lot


respectfully yours,

drill

[Baseball gLove]

...

The guy is still over the top and we have, in the five years we've played against him since, never worried about his teams, no matter how quickly they get out of the starting gate. Why? Because when it comes down the end of the season and the playoffs, his kids are so afraid of being yelled at that they get too cautious or melt down every time. I think he's still making excuses as to why his teams have never won a championship since.

When my son was 11 years old he was drafted by a manager who behaved this way. Initial the manager used a coach that didn't yell and would encourage kids, but the coach moved to the east coast. So the manager's abrasive style immediately came out. He would yell at any kid that didn't field a ball cleanly. In one instance my son knocked down a ball in the 3-4 hole and threw the batter out. The manager yelled at my son for not fielding it cleanly. Next hit was to the same spot; my son knocked the ball down, threw the batter out. The manager yelled and sent him to the outfield. This affected my son's play for 3 weeks. I told my son the manager yelled at him because the manager expected more from him and that he should filter the yelling. The manager didn't yell at the weaker players because he didn't expect anything from them. The manager also screwed up the lineup, moving my son from lead-off to cleanup, placing a very slow kid in front of him that would get thrown out at 1st on hits that should have been doubles. This manager actual hit his own kid. It was the last year he managed.

[callyjr]

He lives on, sorry but watching this guy really got to me.

http://www.eteamz.com/baseball/boards/baseball/message.cfm?id=2089885

[korp]

Throwing curve balls @ age 9 is sickening.

[callyjr]

And now he doesn't understand, I guess no one has even opened his eyes.

http://www.eteamz.com/baseball/boards/baseball/message.cfm?id=2089948

[rkbenn]

And now he doesn't understand, I guess no one has even opened his eyes.

http://www.eteamz.com/baseball/boards/baseball/message.cfm?id=2089948

cally, no link!

[rkbenn]

Throwing curve balls @ age 9 is sickening.

Tom House talks about safe curve balls for youngster, but doesn't define age though.

[callyjr]

cally, no link!

he deleted it.

[Jake Patterson]

I am always amazed at the number of dads at Eteamz enthusiastically boasting about their 6-year-old once-in-a-life-time stud playing 60 games a season and playing in the XYZ National Championship or their 9 y/o throwing curves in some elite travel league. Simply amazing!

[scorekeeper]

I am always amazed at the number of dads at Eteamz enthusiastically boasting about their 6-year-old once-in-a-life-time stud playing 60 games a season and playing in the XYZ National Championship or their 9 y/o throwing curves in some elite travel league. Simply amazing!

What’s even more amazing to me is that there are so many people who swear up and down throwing curves are bad unless thrown correctly, and believe their kid is the one who’s being taught to throw the SAFE CB. ;)

[Jake Patterson]

What’s even more amazing to me is that there are so many people who swear up and down throwing curves are bad unless thrown correctly, and believe their kid is the one who’s being taught to throw the SAFE CB. ;)
I'm going to start a separate thread.... but I would suggest many of these youth coaching experts read "Whose Game is it Anyways?" Regardless of their reasons or their self-justifications, many of these guys are just age INappropriate.

[mudvnine]

If you go to their website, they're so proud that they're amongst the "elite" to be going to Cooperstown, as if they've actually done something to qualify.

Somebody should tell them that Cooperstown is a come-one-come-all, "pay to play" event and not really that big of a deal.

Poor unsuspecting parents . . .

[justagame]

What’s even more amazing to me is that there are so many people who swear up and down throwing curves are bad unless thrown correctly, and believe their kid is the one who’s being taught to throw the SAFE CB. ;)

By the same token, I am amazed at parents with tubby kids that think a quality dinner is taking fat Johnny to McDs for the 5th time this week. You gonna also step into that intervention too?

[rkbenn]

he deleted it.

oh okay, I must have an old version then of the video.

[callyjr]

If you go to their website, they're so proud that they're amongst the "elite" to be going to Cooperstown, as if they've actually done something to qualify.

Somebody should tell them that Cooperstown is a come-one-come-all, "pay to play" event and not really that big of a deal.

Poor unsuspecting parents . . .

If you goto USSSA website and view rankings and then click on them you will also see they posted a losing record on the year, but they are going to play in every elite tourney that money buys this coming year.

[AltaLomaStorm]

Somebody should tell them that Cooperstown is a come-one-come-all, "pay to play" event and not really that big of a deal.

Poor unsuspecting parents . . .
My son, who is 11, has the unique opportunity to travel to Cooperstown to play with our 12 year old Storm team in the final week of August. There will be just under 100 teams participating. He gets to travel to New York and visit the Hall of Fame more than once (we are both very excited about this), Yankee and Shea stadiums, meet and trade pins with over 1000 other boys who love baseball like he does, hang out with some "older" kids and just have a blast. Look for our team on "Good Morning America" on August 21. Oh yea, he "gets" to play around 10 or so baseball games too. He will get an engraved bat and ring, photos and memories that will last a lifetime.

But that is not our primary reason for going...

The best part will be the opportunity to hang out with my son and just have a good time. Whether its playing ball, riding dirt bikes or just going out for hamburgers, time spent with him is something I would not trade from anything. It is an investment in both our lives I am certain will pay dividends further down the road.

"Not really that big of a deal?" Maybe to you and yours, it isn't." But don't view what others do with ill informed cynicism.

"Poor unsuspecting parent..." Have you been? I know exactly what we are traveling across the county for. To hang out with my family, share a vacation and play ball. What could be better?

[Ursa Major]

AltaL, in fairness to MudV, I think his points are pretty obvious that

a. the "not that big a deal" is that as a competitive matter it's not necessarily something to brag about; that isn't to say that the experience itself is not a big deal for the kids and families (though it seems that for the coaches it might be secondary); and

b. the "unsuspecting parents" may well be those who are paying through the nose thinking that their kids are getting such great coaching that they've "earned" their way into the tournament with championship caliber play. (Still, you raise a good point that MudV can't know for sure what the parents were told.)

So when are you going to be at Cooperstown and Yankee Stadium? Ursa Minor and I will be in Cooperstown on August 13th and at the stadium on Sunday the 17th. I assume you'll be leaving after we get back on the 18th, so I'll be happy to offer any travel tips I pick up.

Good luck in your tourney and have the big fun!

[AltaLomaStorm]

So when are you going to be at Cooperstown and Yankee Stadium? Ursa Minor and I will be in Cooperstown on August 13th and at the stadium on Sunday the 17th. I assume you'll be leaving after we get back on the 18th, so I'll be happy to offer any travel tips I pick up.

Good luck in your tourney and have the big fun!
We did not know we were going until one of the kids on the team shattered his elbow skateboarding about a month ago and Steven was pulled up to replace him. Most of the team is going early to spend some time in Manhattan before heading to Cooperstown. We are going to arrive on the 21st and play the 23rd through the 29th. We will not be able to see the Yanks play (we will be playing at the same time), but will tour the stadium.