Ending OUR Glory Days by Exiting Vero Beach

[Paulmcall]

I hear that the Dodgers are talking about leaving their Florida spring training home. Sounds familiar?

[Shotgun Shuba]

They aint just talkin'. They is doing.

For them to have stayed so long in Florida is a miracle and when they finally do leave in a couple of years it will be a very sad day for me. Almost like the last link to Brooklyn will be gone forever and the conversion will be complete. I will also miss those wonderful early March days when the Mets would be battling the Dodgers and you just felt like there was hope for the world after all.

[EbtsFldGuy]

They aint just talkin'. They is doing.

For them to have stayed so long in Florida is a miracle and when they finally do leave in a couple of years it will be a very sad day for me. Almost like the last link to Brooklyn will be gone forever and the conversion will be complete. I will also miss those wonderful early March days when the Mets would be battling the Dodgers and you just felt like there was hope for the world after all.

Once again, Shotgun has nailed it.

Since they moved their minor league teams out of the East, it IS odd that they stayed in Florida so long. With travel costs, it made little sense.

I hope to visit Vero Beach before they leave - again ,like my visit to Dodger Stadium last November, for closure.

Sadly, the tangible reminders of the Brooklyn days are approaching extinction.

[Mattingly]

I hear that the Dodgers are talking about leaving their Florida spring training home. Sounds familiar?
I'm curious, how long have the Dodgers (since Brooklyn) had ST in Florida? I thought that now being a west coast team, they'd been in the Cactus League in Arizona.

[DODGER DEB]

That piece of land in Vero Beach, FL was bought sometime after WWII, and developed soon after into (what IMO) is the premier MLB ST site. Since that time the BROOKLYN DODGERS and that west coast group have always trained in Vero Beach. It is an incredible place; almost like a city within a city. I loved being there!

c.

[JamesWest]

The Dodgers began spring training in Vero Beach in 1949.

[D6+]

Once again, Shotgun has nailed it.

Since they moved their minor league teams out of the East, it IS odd that they stayed in Florida so long. With travel costs, it made little sense.

I hope to visit Vero Beach before they leave - again ,like my visit to Dodger Stadium last November, for closure.

Sadly, the tangible reminders of the Brooklyn days are approaching extinction.

Other than Los Angeles' Rookie League team in Vero Beach, they still have two Minor League Teams in the Eastern Time Zone. Their AA team is in Jacksonville, with the nickname of the Suns. Ironically, Jacksonville has an NFL team and Los Angeles doesn't.

Also, Los Angeles has an A ball team in Midland, MI, which is in the Thumb Area of the State. The team's name is the Great Lakes Loons. It's probably a matter of time before Los Angeles tries to concentrate their entire operation in the Western Half of the Country.

[D6+]

I came across an article in the Palm Beach Post that relates to the Los Angeles NL Franchise moving their Spring Training complex from Vero Beach to Glendale, AR. Though I understand the writer's ( Dave George ) frustration, he couldn't be more off base with what he wrote in the last sentence of this article. The following is that last sentence. I'll put it in quotes:

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/marlins/content/sports/epaper/2007/07/04/a1c_george_0704.html


"Enough to turn the Dodgers, the last of the loyalists, into tumbleweeds, too"

[DODGER DEB]

I came across an article in the Palm Beach Post that relates to the Los Angeles NL Franchise moving their Spring Training complex from Vero Beach to Glendale, AR.

"Enough to turn the Dodgers, the last of the loyalists, into tumbleweeds, too"

A few years ago, WE experienced the Palm Beach Post through their Vero Beach paper. It seems they can "dish it out", but have a real problem "taking it", when it's done to them! :D

What goes around, comes around!

c.

[EbtsFldGuy]

I must confess: Dodgertown is one of the places I want to visit before taking leave of this life.

Looks like next spring is the last time to see the ex-Brooks there.

Will have to start planning, if only to see whatever vestiges of the Brooklyn days exist down there.

[DODGER DEB]

I must confess: Dodgertown is one of the places I want to visit before taking leave of this life.

Looks like next spring is the last time to see the ex-Brooks there.

Will have to start planning, if only to see whatever vestiges of the Brooklyn days exist down there.


You should go, EFG! It is truly one magnificent place.

Assuming that McCourt left all the BROOKLYN items in place, they are not to be missed.

I absolutely loved it!

c.

[EbtsFldGuy]

You should go, EFG! It is truly one magnificent place.

Assuming that McCourt left all the BROOKLYN items in place, they are not to be missed.

I absolutely loved it!

c.

Thanks, Deb. Your positive experience there nails it for me. I'm going . (Now for the hard part = to convince my bride that she'd find it interesting.)

Did you find much left from the Brooklyn days?

I'd welcome hearing about your visit there.

[DODGER DEB]

Thanks, Deb. Your positive experience there nails it for me. I'm going . (Now for the hard part = to convince my bride that she'd find it interesting.)

Did you find much left from the Brooklyn days?

I'd welcome hearing about your visit there.


The last time I was there was in the Spring of 1977, although I had been there once before.

In 1977 there was quite a few BROOKYLN items there. There are the Offices, the Clubhouse, and a Press Room, all with many photos and awards of OUR BROOKLYN DODGERS. They had also renamed several of the "streets" to honor some of OUR DODGERS. There is also a golf course. Also, in 1977 the DODGER Plane was parked on the grounds.

The place is so spreadout, it's like a little city unto itself.

Holman Stadium is a great place to see a ballgame.

Under the McCourt management, I am not sure what has been changed or added, but I am sure most of it is still in place.

EFG, you (and your bride) will enjoy the atmosphere, just walking around and remembering all the BROOKLYN history that walked and played on that mini hallowed ground.

Do take lots of pics, as you will be one of the last to see it, as Dodgertown!

Like everything else before it, it is definitely very sad to see it "go".

c.

[D6+]

[/B]

A few years ago, WE experienced the Palm Beach Post through their Vero Beach paper. It seems they can "dish it out", but have a real problem "taking it", when it's done to them! :D

What goes around, comes around!

c.


DODGER DEB, after reading one of the Palm Beach Post related threads from early 2004 ( if I recall correctly ) last week, I can totally appreciate where you are coming from.


Interestingly, I came across an article from the NY Times, from June 4, 1958 , that mentioned that then GM of the International League Miami Marlins Joe Ryan decided to evict the LA Imposters ( starting in 1959 ) from playing in Spring Training Games at Miami Stadium. Despite being based on Vero Beach, the Dodgers played a few games a season in Miami.

Joe Ryan mentioned that one of two reasons for the decision was because of the franchise no longer being on the East Coast. This was significant to Ryan because Miami was ( still is ) primarily a destination for people on the East Coast. The other reason was Ryan felt the team wasn't the top attraction from a player personality standpoint any longer. Though Ryan's motives were business oriented, I'm certainly glad he made the decision.

[Paulmcall]

It will be a sad day when they leave for the locals.

[EbtsFldGuy]

Deb,

Thanks for your good reply.

Over the weekend. I emailed the Dodgertown conference center and asked some questions.

Got a prompt reply that was disappointing in that it said that there are memorabilia of the Brooklyn days, but they are not accessible to the general public. Don't know what that means.

Still, the investigation continues. I do want to be there for a game in the final spring training - even if they are not our Dodgers anymore.

[D6+]

Deb,

Thanks for your good reply.

Over the weekend. I emailed the Dodgertown conference center and asked some questions.

Got a prompt reply that was disappointing in that it said that there are memorabilia of the Brooklyn days, but they are not accessible to the general public. Don't know what that means.

Still, the investigation continues. I do want to be there for a game in the final spring training - even if they are not our Dodgers anymore.


EbtsFldGuy, my guess is the items from the Brooklyn days that were mentioned in the reply you received are the ones that DODGER DEB saw in 1977, when visiting the Offices, the Clubhouse, and Press Room.


The question that comes to mind on this end is will these items be moved out of Vero Beach by the Los Angeles organization or will they remain in Vero Beach beyond 2008. If the latter is the case, hopefully the Brooklyn items will be on display for the public in 2009. If that proves to be the case, I will make a trip to Vero Beach.



I hope that you enjoy seeing a game in Vero Beach next year and your overall visit to Vero Beach. I'm sure it will provide you with a whole array of emotions.

[DODGER DEB]

Deb,

Thanks for your good reply.

Over the weekend. I emailed the Dodgertown conference center and asked some questions.

Got a prompt reply that was disappointing in that it said that there are memorabilia of the Brooklyn days, but they are not accessible to the general public. Don't know what that means.

Still, the investigation continues. I do want to be there for a game in the final spring training - even if they are not our Dodgers anymore.


Let me see what I can find out, EFG.

I can't promise anything, but I'll certainly give it a good BROOKLYN try.

c.

[DODGER DEB]

EbtsFldGuy, my guess is the items from the Brooklyn days that were mentioned in the reply you received are the ones that DODGER DEB saw in 1977, when visiting the Offices, the Clubhouse, and Press Room.


The question that comes to mind on this end is will these items be moved out of Vero Beach by the Los Angeles organization or will they remain in Vero Beach beyond 2008. If the latter is the case, hopefully the Brooklyn items will be on display for the public in 2009. If that proves to be the case, I will make a trip to Vero Beach.



I hope that you enjoy seeing a game in Vero Beach next year and your overall visit to Vero Beach. I'm sure it will provide you with a whole array of emotions.

It is certain, D6+, that any and all DODGER items, from both teams, will be moved to Arizona, at the new training site in 2009. All these items were included in the sale to McCourt, aas they were with the previous two sales, and are owned by the team. Whatever team takesover that site in Vero Beach, if infact one does, will not want items from another team hanging around.

c.

[D6+]

It is certain, D6+, that any and all DODGER items, from both teams, will be moved to Arizona, at the new training site in 2009. All these items were included in the sale to McCourt, aas they were with the previous two sales, and are owned by the team. Whatever team takesover that site in Vero Beach, if infact one does, will not want items from another team hanging around.

c.


DODGER DEB, the only items that I like to see remain in Vero Beach are the ones that relate to the history of Spring Training and professional baseball in general, in Vero Beach. Unfortunately, it looks like another town is going lose most of it's tangible history as a result of the decision making by the ownership of the Los Angeles imposter franchise.


One additional thought. It makes no sense at all for the Brooklyn Dodgers items at the Los Angeles Imposter Franchise Spring Training Complex to be kept away from the general public. It's a given that these items mean much more to Brooklyn Dodgers fans than anyone remaining in the Los Angeles Imposter organization who was never associated with the Brooklyn Dodgers. This decision is so typical of the pathetic LA organization, regardless of who has run the that franchise since the team was hijacked out of Brooklyn.

[Number 4]

I did not grow up in Brooklyn and never saw the Dodgers play at Ebbets, but those Dodgers were my adopted team as a kid. Today I collect all Brooklyn Dodger memorabilia. This past March I visited Dodgertown during my week of making the rounds at spring training camps. I must say I was a little disappointed; perhaps the anticipation of nostalgia tainted my visit by raising my expectations. Dodgertown's complex was not as grand or as large as I thought it would be. Even though Homan Stadium is small and quaint, the fans' access to the players isn't much different from that at other spring training sites I visited. The ball players stand around in small groups out on the field, away from the stands. One or two players appear to be designated to sign autographs for the kids for about 20 mintues, just like at other parks. I assumed that there would be a museum displaying some of the history of Dodgertown and the players, but there wasn't (that I could find). I had envisioned large street signs displaying the names of old Dodger heroes. The signs (only a few) are there, but in much smaller script. The gift shops selling merchandise are just like those at other sites....all approved MLB stuff at high prices; no merchandise with Brooklyn or Brooklyn Dodgers on it. All in all, I'm glad I went to Dodgertown, but it wasn't as grand or as memorable as I thought it would be. BTW, the fake Dodgers lost to the Cards that night.

[EbtsFldGuy]

I did not grow up in Brooklyn and never saw the Dodgers play at Ebbets, but those Dodgers were my adopted team as a kid. Today I collect all Brooklyn Dodger memorabilia. This past March I visited Dodgertown during my week of making the rounds at spring training camps. I must say I was a little disappointed; perhaps the anticipation of nostalgia tainted my visit by raising my expectations. Dodgertown's complex was not as grand or as large as I thought it would be. Even though Homan Stadium is small and quaint, the fans' access to the players isn't much different from that at other spring training sites I visited. The ball players stand around in small groups out on the field, away from the stands. One or two players appear to be designated to sign autographs for the kids for about 20 mintues, just like at other parks. I assumed that there would be a museum displaying some of the history of Dodgertown and the players, but there wasn't (that I could find). I had envisioned large street signs displaying the names of old Dodger heroes. The signs (only a few) are there, but in much smaller script. The gift shops selling merchandise are just like those at other sites....all approved MLB stuff at high prices; no merchandise with Brooklyn or Brooklyn Dodgers on it. All in all, I'm glad I went to Dodgertown, but it wasn't as grand or as memorable as I thought it would be. BTW, the fake Dodgers lost to the Cards that night.

Thank you, Number 4. Your report may have just saved me a trip.

Still undecided, and continuing to investigate - but am leaning toward a nay vote on this one.

[Number 4]

Thank you, Number 4. Your report may have just saved me a trip.

Still undecided, and continuing to investigate - but am leaning toward a nay vote on this one.

Go to this web site; it shows some pictures of Dodgertown:

http://www.springtrainingonline.com/teams/la_dodgers.htm

IMO, that is about all there is. Like I said before, Holman Field is quaint and I'm glad to have gone just to say that I did, but I was already in the area visiting other spring training sites and not making a special trip to FL just to see Dodgertown.

[strummer]

To really appreciate Dodgertown, as a Brooklyn Dodger fan, you have to get inside the buildings. I don't know who they let in, but I was able to have access as an attendee of Fantasy Camp years ago. The locker room is pretty close quarters; you were next to the guy with the same uniform number as you requested. Of course, I was there when Podres, Branca, Labine, Erskine, Snider, Roe, Campanella, and Lasorda were there along with a similar number of west coast guys. [I knew everyone would pick #4 so i picked #6 to honor Furillo. So I wound up next to Steve Garvey, who also wore #6. He is a very nice guy.]

The lounge and bar area and dining room are filled with larger than life size blow ups of Brooklyn Dodger action shots to tickle your memory.There are also pictures and stats printed on the walls. The streets and public rooms (conference center) are all named for Brooklyn Dodgers. The nostalgia and heart tugging experience is more in the imagination and the mind as you walk through these areas, but being there is what stimulates the experience.

As for souveniers, years ago they did sell Brooklyn jerseys and hats. As a matter of fact all the Brooklyn players named above wore B hats with their uniforms, as did all us "campers" whose allegience was to Brooklyn. The other stuff is the same as they sell at their ballpark. But there is plenty of stuff with the Dodger logo -- the ball with the speed dashes and "Dodgers" -- which is the same logo they used in Brooklyn. I have golf club covers like that and love telling people it is Brooklyn Dodger golf club covers, as there is no "LA" on them. Other stuff which just says "Dodgers" is also available.

[DODGER DEB]

Thank you, Number 4. Your report may have just saved me a trip.

Still undecided, and continuing to investigate - but am leaning toward a nay vote on this one.

If you are seriously leaning towards NOT going, EFG, then I will cease my efforts to help make some of the "off limits" areas available.

c.

[EbtsFldGuy]

If you are seriously leaning towards NOT going, EFG, then I will cease my efforts to help make some of the "off limits" areas available.

c.

No, Deb, please don't cease your inquiry.

If there is Brooklyn stuff there, which the general public can see, I want to go.

Thanks in advance for your efforts.

[Shotgun Shuba]

If anybody is planning on making one last trip to Dodgertown be advised that the dodgers will be splitting their schedule between Grapefruit and Cactus this year. The last game in florida appears to be on march 17th against the astros. I am going to try my hardest to go down and pay my respects.

[donzblock]

If anybody is planning on making one last trip to Dodgertown be advised that the dodgers will be splitting their schedule between Grapefruit and Cactus this year. The last game in florida appears to be on march 17th against the astros. I am going to try my hardest to go down and pay my respects.
To whom will these respects be paid? Who did what to deserve these respects? How will these respects be paid?

[Shotgun Shuba]

I love history and I will be remembering the Brooklyn greats who played there and attempt to feel some sort of connection to the last remaining connection to the Brooklyn days.

I think the Brooklyn Dodgers who played there deserve to be remembered. I don't quite know what your point is there. I guess baseball is just a game so maybe respect is the wrong word, I don't know.

I will gaze across the field and be still in my thoughts and feel the memories wash over me like a cool breeze.

[DODGER DEB]

I love history and I will be remembering the Brooklyn greats who played there and attempt to feel some sort of connection to the last remaining connection to the Brooklyn days.

I think the Brooklyn Dodgers who played there deserve to be remembered. I don't quite know what your point is there. I guess baseball is just a game so maybe respect is the wrong word, I don't know.

I will gaze across the field and be still in my thoughts and feel the memories wash over me like a cool breeze.

Point well made to OUR Brooklyn Dodgers, Shotgun, who most certainly deserve all the rememberance paid to them.

You should know that there is a chance that Dodgertown will not be closed in 2008, but rather in 2009 instead. This is what I am hearing from the left coast. An announcement is supposed to be made soon about the exact date.

c.

[dodger dynamo]

ebbets field is gone, vero beach is still there any chance of turning the area back into a brooklyn dodger attraction, for us who lost and those who are about to lose. some place for us all to go. something, any thing to keep the city alive. an ebbets replica? what will be done in dodgertown after they leave?. If we join with them, what can be done?. this move west will destroy another city. battlin bake, the dodger dynamo.

[DODGER DEB]

ebbets field is gone, vero beach is still there any chance of turning the area back into a brooklyn dodger attraction, for us who lost and those who are about to lose. some place for us all to go. something, any thing to keep the city alive. an ebbets replica? what will be done in dodgertown after they leave?. If we join with them, what can be done?. this move west will destroy another city. battlin bake, the dodger dynamo.

I understand that some real estate developers (McCourt?) are looking at the place. I have also heard that Vero Beach is looking to attract another team to use the facility for spring training.

c.

[dodger dynamo]

I know just the team, they've been looking for a place for 50 yrs. that's no joke. battlin bake, the dodger dynamo

[crzblue]

I must confess: Dodgertown is one of the places I want to visit before taking leave of this life.

Looks like next spring is the last time to see the ex-Brooks there.

Will have to start planning, if only to see whatever vestiges of the Brooklyn days exist down there.


EFG,
You will throughly love it! Is such a nostalgic place! When I visisted in 2005, it was like walking back in time. All the players were easily accesible. A day when there is no game is better to walk around the various diamonds and watch the practices. Had a chat with Rick Monday, said hi to Vin Scully, chatted with sweet Lou Johnson, Jaime Jarrin, Many Mota and many others.

I am making my last trip there. Although I live 15 minutes from Dodger Stadium and Arizona would be closer to me, I was and still am sadden by the move.

[penncentralpete]

I hear that the Dodgers are talking about leaving their Florida spring training home. Sounds familiar?

The Dodgers have trained in the following locations: Charlotte, N.C. (1901); Columbia, S.C. (1902-1906); Jacksonville (1907-1909); Hot Springs, Ark. (1910-1912); Augusta, Ga. (1913-1914); Daytona Beach (1915-1916); Hot Springs, Ark. (1917-1918); Jacksonville (1919-1920); New Orleans (1921); Jacksonville (1922); Clearwater (1923-1932); Miami (1933); Orlando (1934-1935); Clearwater (1936-1940); Havana (1941-1942); Bear Mountain, N.Y. (1943-1945); Daytona Beach (1946); Havana (1947); Ciudad Trujillo, Dominican Republic (1948); Vero Beach (1949-present).

[aqib]

I understand that some real estate developers (McCourt?) are looking a the place. I have also heard that Vero Beach is looking to attract another team to use the facility for spring training.

c.

Yeah Vero Beach is looking for another team to fill that spot. I heard someone (White Sox maybe?) was seriously considering it but they are waiting until the Dodgers make their departure date official.

[DODGER DEB]

The NY Daily News' Bill Madden has this story today about how OUR Glory Days of OUR BROOKLYN DODGERS will soon be ending by the west coast group's decision to move their spring training base to AZ.

Note that Peter O'Malley said (if he still owned the club) that he would have found another way, in lieu of moving.

Read more....

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/2008/03/02/2008-03-02_in_leaving_vero_beach_dodgers_cutting_la-1.html

Another sad day for US to remember.

c.

[Shotgun Shuba]

I agree DD, it's very sad. The quote in the article from Vinny is very true, this is the cutting of the umbilical cord to Brooklyn. I like the Dodgers and when I am listening to the games I feel good thinking about the Brooklyn greats and the "transition years" players like Sandy and Drysdale and Tommy Davis. As each year goes by though it becomes harder and harder to stir up that feeling. I think I like the Dodgers because of what they once were and when you are looking at today's players, it's really hard to get a squishy feeling about Andre Ethier and Matt Kemp. To alter Dressen's famous quote of '51, the Dodgers is dead.

[Yankeebiscuitfan]

I must say that it is quite logic that they move to a facility closer to home.

But these Dodgers hardly care about their roots in Brooklyn. Only last year, when they could make some money with the remembrance of the final season in Brooklyn. Ditto with the celebration of the 1955 WS championship.

So I see this move all in perspective. Since they don't care about their roots, they also leave Holman Field.

1+1=2

[JohnCropp]

I visited Dodgertown the first Spring Training that I lived in Florida (March 1994) and was treated to the sight of Tommy Lasorda saying "Excuse us! Excuse us, folks!" in a golf cart as it drove past us in the ticket line.

It is a shame to see the Dodgers leave Vero, but they have provided more memories than can be calculated in the years they were there.

[willisraverchk77]

i'm not quite sure why some of you care or are upset at all. the dodgers ceased to exist after 1957, so the la team has been at vero all this time, and when they leave another team will move in.

[Ralph Zig Tyko]

i'm not quite sure why some of you care or are upset at all. the dodgers ceased to exist after 1957, so the la team has been at vero all this time, and when they leave another team will move in.
I'm sure you don't understand why, willisraverchk77, but a number of us care a great deal.

[willisraverchk77]

I'm sure you don't understand why, willisraverchk77, but a number of us care a great deal.

that's cool. i'm just saying the team thats moving out of vero beach isnt anymore the brooklyn dodgers than the team that will move in after they leave. so one team moves out, another moves in, so nothings really "ending". i realise some of you still consider the la team the dodgers, so those that do, sure, it will be sad. but the way I look at it the dodgers in vero beach ended 50 years ago, not in 2008.

[Number 4]

that's cool. i'm just saying the team thats moving out of vero beach isnt anymore the brooklyn dodgers than the team that will move in after they leave. so one team moves out, another moves in, so nothings really "ending". i realise some of you still consider the la team the dodgers, so those that do, sure, it will be sad. but the way I look at it the dodgers in vero beach ended 50 years ago, not in 2008.

Ah, but Dodgertown itself, is much more representative of the Brooklyn Dodgers than the other Dodgers, IMO.

[DODGER DEB]

Ah, but Dodgertown itself, is much more representative of the Brooklyn Dodgers than the other Dodgers, IMO.

BINGO, Number 4! You hit the nail right on the head!!

c.

[willisraverchk77]

Ah, but Dodgertown itself, is much more representative of the Brooklyn Dodgers than the other Dodgers, IMO.

that's my point. A team that WASNT your Dodgers has been using it for 50 years, and a new team that ISNT your Dodgers will be moving in to replace them soon. so whats "ending"?

[KCGHOST]

The fact the faux Dodgers stayed in Vero Beach for 50 years after cutting and running to the coast is amazing. With the growth of the Cactus League and all the cities in the Phoenix area dying to build a state-of-the-art spring training facility for a team it is amazing they stayed this long.

[Number 4]

that's my point. A team that WASNT your Dodgers has been using it for 50 years, and a new team that ISNT your Dodgers will be moving in to replace them soon. so whats "ending"?

The sad thing is that it is Dodgertown that is ending, not those California Dodgers which are irrelevant. Certainly, if another ML team takes over the facilities of Dodgertown you don't expect them to keep all the old Brooklyn Dodger players' street names, etc. Dodgertown will be just one more visual memory of the Brooklyn Dodgers that will be lost....and that is what is sad.

[willisraverchk77]

The sad thing is that it is Dodgertown that is ending, not those California Dodgers which are irrelevant. Certainly, if another ML team takes over the facilities of Dodgertown you don't expect them to keep all the old Brooklyn Dodger players' street names, etc. Dodgertown will be just one more visual memory of the Brooklyn Dodgers that will be lost....and that is what is sad.

i suppose so, but it remained 50 years longer than it "needed to" anyway. and Dodgertown was only a 10-year part of the 67-year history of the dodgers. if it was abandoned in 1958, i don't think it would have the same lore and "tradition" today. much of the "history" of the facility is that it's remained operating for 40 years after the team moved out and the new team moved in. anyway, who knows, maybe the new team that moves in will keep some or a lot of the dodger history there. i don't think vero beach residents will be too happy if they gut the place of all remnants of the dodgers and la team being there, but only time will tell.

the thing is, the la team isn't tearing down the place or anything, so if vero wants to preserve it i suppose they could. but really, the la team is under no obligation to keep the place and spend money to preserve it just for "memories" for brooklyn dodger fans--that would be nice but not make sense financially or otherwise. and like kcghost said, i'm amazed they stayed there as long as they did. it made no sense really.

[Yankeebiscuitfan]

i suppose so, but it remained 50 years longer than it "needed to" anyway. and Dodgertown was only a 10-year part of the 67-year history of the dodgers. if it was abandoned in 1958, i don't think it would have the same lore and "tradition" today. much of the "history" of the facility is that it's remained operating for 40 years after the team moved out and the new team moved in. anyway, who knows, maybe the new team that moves in will keep some or a lot of the dodger history there. i don't think vero beach residents will be too happy if they gut the place of all remnants of the dodgers and la team being there, but only time will tell.

the thing is, the la team isn't tearing down the place or anything, so if vero wants to preserve it i suppose they could. but really, the la team is under no obligation to keep the place and spend money to preserve it just for "memories" for brooklyn dodger fans--that would be nice but not make sense financially or otherwise. and like kcghost said, i'm amazed they stayed there as long as they did. it made no sense really.

The only way these Dodgers are doing something for the memories of (Brooklyn) fans is when they can make money out of it. Like I said, last year to commemorate the final year in Brooklyn and back in 2005 to remember Brooklyn's WS win.

It was the first thing that I said (and wrote here), when I read that the Dodgers would leave Dodgertown: The last ties that they have with Brooklyn are cut now too.

When you look at the distance and at the money they have to spend to get there, it does make sense that they leave Dodgertown. But from the historical point of view, they have to stay there IMO. The historical value of this complex is much greater than the costs that the Dodgers have to make to get there.

[willisraverchk77]

The only way these Dodgers are doing something for the memories of (Brooklyn) fans is when they can make money out of it. Like I said, last year to commemorate the final year in Brooklyn and back in 2005 to remember Brooklyn's WS win. .

well, hate to break it to you, but every team that honors their past is going to market it and make money on it. i'm not a fan of the la team, but their new owners are known to be very philanthropic, and that coliseum game they're doing could have been done to make a ton of money, but instead they're donating 100% the proceeds of everything to childrens cancer research.

on your secont point i don't get it. the dodgers died 50 years ago, so why would the la team have to stay there anymore than the baltimore team who might move in? its not the dodgers anymore, its just "the team thats still playing in dodgertown." and its stupid for them to be there, like if the yankees red sox and mets moved there training to arizona. that would be dumb.

i was watching the mets dodgers game the other day, and it was in vero beach, but most of the cheers in the crowd were mets fans. why would the la team stay in a situation like that with all their fans on the other coast and more mets fans in their own ballpark????

[Yankeebiscuitfan]

well, hate to break it to you, but every team that honors their past is going to market it and make money on it. i'm not a fan of the la team, but their new owners are known to be very philanthropic, and that coliseum game they're doing could have been done to make a ton of money, but instead they're donating 100% the proceeds of everything to childrens cancer research.

on your secont point i don't get it. the dodgers died 50 years ago, so why would the la team have to stay there anymore than the baltimore team who might move in? its not the dodgers anymore, its just "the team thats still playing in dodgertown." and its stupid for them to be there, like if the yankees red sox and mets moved there training to arizona. that would be dumb.

i was watching the mets dodgers game the other day, and it was in vero beach, but most of the cheers in the crowd were mets fans. why would the la team stay in a situation like that with all their fans on the other coast and more mets fans in their own ballpark????

IF you read my post well, you would have read that I also said that the move to Arizona makes sense. But then again, the historical value of Dodgertown is greater than some people can understand. And that is the problem with this country. They are forgetting their (sports) history way too easy. That is probably why they demolish shrines like Yankee Stadium, Tiger Stadium and Comiskey Park.

The first thing that came up to my mind, when I read that the Dodgers would leave for a facility in Arizona, was: "There goes the last tie of their past with Brooklyn."

I never said that these Dodger owners are not charitable. But they and the former owners hardly remembered their roots. So to me it is a bit fake to remember their 1955 WS win and their 1957 season.

Maybe the town of Vero Beach can make some museum out of Holman Field/Dodgertown, rather than letting the Orioles play there. No offense to the Orioles, but they just do not belong there.

[donzblock]

Camden Yards looks like a modernized Ebbets field. Rex Barney announced there and never tired of telling Brooks Robinson that Cox was better. Better the Orioles than that bloodsucking disease from the left coast.

[MATHA531]

You think they'll call it Orioletown from now on? Or perhaps Birdtown.

[alpineinc]

http://inlinethumb13.webshots.com/32844/2146442580039674882S500x500Q85.jpg

[MATHA531]

nice picture...but of course the question is...

Is the sign put up by the Los Angeles National League baseball club thanking Vero Beach for 60 great years?

Or was the sign put up by the city of Vero Beach thanking the Brooklyn Dodgers for 10 great years and the Los Angeles National League baseball club for 50 great years?

[Spirit of '55]

nice picture...but of course the question is...

Is the sign put up by the Los Angeles National League baseball club thanking Vero Beach for 60 great years?

Or was the sign put up by the city of Vero Beach thanking the Brooklyn Dodgers for 10 great years and the Los Angeles National League baseball club for 50 great years?


Friends:

Or perhaps thanking Brooklyn for ten glorious years and LAlaland for 50 "Oh yeah, remember when...?" years?

Living here in Florida, I can tell you that the exit from Vero Beach has raised up a few spectres and bad memories, and created some entirely new unhappiness among the fans of faux blue.

It's been front page news up and down the coast. It's incredible that the past and present management has succeeded in alienating TWO cities. Granted, it took 50 years, but it only proves that Walter The Dybbuk still walks among us.

I think WE need to adopt Vero Beach as Brooklyn's sister city.

It's good to be back, sidelined as I've been by health problems. Nice to see you all! :homeplate:

[DODGER DEB]

Friends:

Or perhaps thanking Brooklyn for ten glorious years and LAlaland for 50 "Oh yeah, remember when...?" years?

Living here in Florida, I can tell you that the exit from Vero Beach has raised up a few spectres and bad memories, and created some entirely new unhappiness among the fans of faux blue.

It's been front page news up and down the coast. It's incredible that the past and present management has succeeded in alienating TWO cities. Granted, it took 50 years, but it only proves that Walter The Dybbuk still walks among us.

I think WE need to adopt Vero Beach as Brooklyn's sister city.

It's good to be back, sidelined as I've been by health problems. Nice to see you all! :homeplate:

First, welcome back, So'55, and hope all is well.

I have been hearing much of what you say from some people I know down in the Vero Beach area. It simply amazes me that the group/s running that west coast bunch never have a clue, other than the $$$$$, about how their decisions affect their fans. Tell me, has their been anything written in the local papers about this issue?

That place (Dodgertown) is so incredible, that it should remain a monument to OUR BROOKLYN DODGERS. That sister hallowed ground to OUR Ebbets Field is a place to be revered, for it is the place where all OUR Heros walked, played and lived for many years. And, like OUR Ebbets Field, I am sure it is where their spirits can be felt if you were, and still are, a loyal and true BROOKLYN DODGER FAN.

c.

[Spirit of '55]

Dear DD & Friends:

There's been a ton of retrospective material, BROOKLYN Dodger material, and a host of cries of "Foul ball!" from fans and commentators alike. I'll Google for links. Mostly, it's the "What possible reason did they have to move?" variety (sound familiar?). Fans are disappointed.

Vero Beach will probably suffer a recession from loss of annual fan and player spending revenues. Fantasy camp drew in a lot of green. But does Faux Blue care? Naaaah!

They done it again, dammit!

The pro argument for the move is that Arizona is closer to LA and that this cuts down costs and communication lag. The con argument is that modern technology has rendered distance meaningless. Could it be that the Traitors can't afford the gas? Is the franchise in that much trouble out there?

Hey, I've got a moneymaking idea! Why not move them back to Brooklyn? :homeplate:

PS: Thanks for the good wishes. The road to recovery is long, the tolls are high, but I've got an EZPass here someplace. I'm on my way back, friends.:thumbsup:

[Yankeebiscuitfan]

That place (Dodgertown) is so incredible, that it should remain a monument to OUR BROOKLYN DODGERS.

I could not agree with you more DD.

[willisraverchk77]

Dear DD & Friends:

There's been a ton of retrospective material, BROOKLYN Dodger material, and a host of cries of "Foul ball!" from fans and commentators alike. I'll Google for links. Mostly, it's the "What possible reason did they have to move?" variety (sound familiar?). Fans are disappointed.

Vero Beach will probably suffer a recession from loss of annual fan and player spending revenues. Fantasy camp drew in a lot of green. But does Faux Blue care? Naaaah!

They done it again, dammit!

The pro argument for the move is that Arizona is closer to LA and that this cuts down costs and communication lag. The con argument is that modern technology has rendered distance meaningless. Could it be that the Traitors can't afford the gas? Is the franchise in that much trouble out there?



there's a reason every west coast team trains in arizona and east coast teams train in florida--'cause it makes no sense otherwise. the la team remaining in florida all these years made no sense and they're finally making the common sense move.

[DODGER DEB]

I could not agree with you more DD.

Great minds think alike, YBF!

Thanks for your support of US, and OUR Dodgers, once again!

c.

[Ralph Zig Tyko]

there's a reason every west coast team trains in arizona and east coast teams train in florida--'cause it makes no sense otherwise. the la team remaining in florida all these years made no sense and they're finally making the common sense move.
"Making sense" is not just saving $. Making sense is rewarding fan loyalty.
I've seen little or none of that in my 55 years of being a fan.

[willisraverchk77]

"Making sense" is not just saving $. Making sense is rewarding fan loyalty.
I've seen little or none of that in my 55 years of being a fan.

haha how is it "loyal to your fan base" to keep your team 3000 miles away instead of moving closer to them? how is it not idiotic to play somewhere where 70% of your florida home games are attended by fans from the visiting team?

[Perseus71]

I think it is stupid to move the Dodgers Spring training out of Vero Beach, because this was an East Coast market(fan base) that they are going to turn away from. Don't you want your team to have a presence on both coasts? Oh well, it reminds me of the Jets, Knicks and Mets... GROSS mismanagement over the years...

[willisraverchk77]

I think it is stupid to move the Dodgers Spring training out of Vero Beach, because this was an East Coast market(fan base) that they are going to turn away from. Don't you want your team to have a presence on both coasts? Oh well, it reminds me of the Jets, Knicks and Mets... GROSS mismanagement over the years...

like I said, if that made sense you would have west coast teams training in florida, and east coast teams training in arizona, which you don't because it's crazy to keep your main fan base AWAY from your team.

[Yankeebiscuitfan]

Great minds think alike, YBF!

Thanks for your support of US, and OUR Dodgers, once again!

c.

You don't need to thank me for that DD. Even though their move was about 10 years before I was born, I still think that the Dodgers belong in Brooklyn and nowhere else. I already had this opinion way before I became a member of BBF.

[Yankeebiscuitfan]

like I said, if that made sense you would have west coast teams training in florida, and east coast teams training in arizona, which you don't because it's crazy to keep your main fan base AWAY from your team.

Looking to the $$$$, it is a logical move. It saves them money on the travelling. More fans from LA will visit their ST games. Again, completely logical.

But from the historic point of view it is really a shame that they leave Dodgertown. Like I said, their last ties with Brooklyn are gone now too. But again this Dodger ball club does not care about it's past before 1958.

It would be a good thing indeed to make a museum out of Dodgertown. Fans will come anyway. It is a great historical and valuable landmark. Way too valuable to be left alone by it's original inhabitant.

[Yankeebiscuitfan]

I thought it would be nice to post some old pitctures of Dodgertown.

[Yankeebiscuitfan]

The dining room

[Yankeebiscuitfan]

Player attending skill class

[Yankeebiscuitfan]

Dodgertown sign

[Yankeebiscuitfan]

This speaks for itself

[Yankeebiscuitfan]

Maybe a stupid question, but have any of you been to Dodgertown?

Probably yes. How was it to be there?

[DODGER DEB]

Maybe a stupid question, but have any of you been to Dodgertown?

Probably yes. How was it to be there?


FABULOUS!

INCREDIBLE!


WONDERFUL!

That just about covers it, YBT!

I hope I've answered your question.

c.

[Yankeebiscuitfan]

FABULOUS!

INCREDIBLE!


WONDERFUL!

That just about covers it, YBT!

I hope I've answered your question.

c.

I think so. But the letters were a bit small. I have some trouble reading them... :D:laugh

[DODGER DEB]

I think so. But the letters were a bit small. I have some trouble reading them... :D:laugh


I'll try to be a little more emphatic in the future.......promise! ;)

c.

[Dalkowski110]

At one point, Fred Wilpon (a Brooklyn fan) seriously considered moving the Mets ST from St. Lucie to Vero Beach to succeed the Dodgers, but that fell through after they had to renovate the fields in St. Lucie to reflect the dimensions of Citi Field. Had the Dodgers announced they were leaving Vero Beach earlier (say 2006), I'm convinced it would be the Mets (as opposed to the Orioles) that would be training there.

[DODGER DEB]

At one point, Fred Wilpon (a Brooklyn fan) seriously considered moving the Mets ST from St. Lucie to Vero Beach to succeed the Dodgers, but that fell through after they had to renovate the fields in St. Lucie to reflect the dimensions of Citi Field. Had the Dodgers announced they were leaving Vero Beach earlier (say 2006), I'm convinced it would be the Mets (as opposed to the Orioles) that would be training there.

Thank you for posting that Dalkowski110, I had forgotten about it.

Fred Wilpon taking over DODGERTOWN would have been the perfect solution, if only that west coast group had, just for once, made the information available sooner, that they planned to leave Vero Beach.

DODGERTOWN would have stayed in the "NYC" family, and Fred would have, as an original longtime BROOKLYN fan, found a way to honor all OUR BROOKLYN DODGER greats that walked and played there for so many years.

c.

[DODGER DEB]

The NY Times ran this article today "RICH MEMORIES in the Last Days of DODGERTOWN".

While lauding Tommy LaSorda is certainly not my idea of what should be praised here, the article, nonetheless, does mark the end of a era...one that included 10 wonderful years of OUR BROOKLYN DODGERS...for whom the place was built.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/18/sports/baseball/18dodgers.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

Comments, please.

c.

[Ralph Zig Tyko]

haha how is it "loyal to your fan base" to keep your team 3000 miles away instead of moving closer to them? how is it not idiotic to play somewhere where 70% of your florida home games are attended by fans from the visiting team?
The "fan base" of the Dodgers is in Brooklyn. Vero Beach is the last tangible link to the pre-carpetbagging days.

[willisraverchk77]

The "fan base" of the Dodgers is in Brooklyn. Vero Beach is the last tangible link to the pre-carpetbagging days.

uh, I wasn't talking about the Dodgers fan base. if you re-read my post you see I'm talking about the LA team's fan base. and that fan base is not on the east coast--it's in california which is why they're moving spring training to arizona just like every other west coast team.

[Yankeebiscuitfan]

Another pic of Holman Field.

[Shotgun Shuba]

You know, the more I think about this, I think staying in Vero Beach after The Move was based on greed. The Dodgers had trained there less than ten years at that point, there wasn't the sense of history that we have now. I think O'Malley felt that nostalgic Dodger fans would flock(no pun intended) to Florida each year and try to soothe their wounds. As the Brooklyn fans got older he knew they would be moving to Florida. Maybe he thought he could have a springtime Brooklyn Dodgers and a regular season LA Dodgers. As more and more Brooklyn fans died and the memory of the Dodgers became more distant in the East it was no longer profitable. They stayed long after his death but not much longer after Peter sold. Something to think about.

[musial6]

http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/sports/stories.nsf/cardinals/story/478EEAED408307C78625756200162A51?OpenDocument

[Shotgun Shuba]

Very sad. I think this move has a lot more historical significance than people have shed light on. I read one quote from a long time member of the dodger organization in which he said: This is the last break from the East Coast, what began 50 years ago is finally complete. I think this is true. I think the New Yorkers who migrated down to Florida always had their spring Brooklyn Dodgers. Lasorda is right though, most of them are dead. It's been a long time since the move. The Brooklyn Dodgers are also dead but they are missed.

[VIBaseball]

I had not known about this until quite recently, and this thread is a good place to post it. It is the story of a bronze plaque commemorating the Brooklyn Dodgers' visit to Hiroshima during their tour of Japan in the fall of 1956. A picture of the plaque is included:

http://workbench.cadenhead.org/news/2886/dodgers-never-forget-hiroshima

I wonder what's going to happen to it now?

[MATHA531]

I had not known about this until quite recently, and this thread is a good place to post it. It is the story of a bronze plaque commemorating the Brooklyn Dodgers' visit to Hiroshima during their tour of Japan in the fall of 1956. A picture of the plaque is included:

http://workbench.cadenhead.org/news/2886/dodgers-never-forget-hiroshima

I wonder what's going to happen to it now?

I didn't go through your link...however as I remember while the Dodgers were visiting Hiroshima, the site of the A bomb attack, a Japanese person came up to the team and said, "Well do you think we deserved this?" (or something to that effect).

Gil Hodges turned to him and said, "Well you know we stopped at Pearl Harbor on the way over and saw what's left of the Arizona."

Touche

[VIBaseball]

The New York Times ran this article yesterday -- "In Vero Beach, Dodger Blue Fades to Black"

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/08/sports/baseball/08dodgertown.html?ref=sports

[VIBaseball]

A day late, unfortunately, but an entertaining little snippet to celebrate St. Paddy's:

"Brooklyn Dodgers owner Walter O'Malley, fiercely proud of his Celtic heritage, celebrated St. Patrick's Day at Dodgertown with lavish parties that became Vero Beach legend. There was green beer and green plastic derbies and players and writers partied alongside one another deep into the evening, and none of it ever made the newspapers."

http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/extras/extra_bases/2009/03/st_patricks_day.html

The tradition started in 1951 and moved to Dodgertown in 1952, according to The Big O's website. I won't go as far as to provide the link here, but I don't mind showing this aspect of O'Malley.

[penncentralpete]

In only their eighth home game at Camelback Ranch-Glendale, the Dodgers set a Cactus League single-game attendance record Tuesday of 13,046, breaking the previous record of 13,010 set by the Cubs last month at HoHoKam Park in Mesa.


Tuesday's game, played in temperatures in the mid-80s, was won by the Cubs, 12-3. The crowd included 2,292 in walk-up sales.

"Once you've taken in a ballgame at Camelback Ranch, these results are not surprising," said Dodgers president and chief operating officer Dennis Mannion. "We believe it's the best Spring Training experience in all of baseball, and we're looking forward to welcoming our fans here for the remainder of the Cactus League schedule."

Six Dodgers home games remain at the new complex, which the team shares with the Chicago White Sox. Over the first eight games, the Dodgers are averaging 9,495. The Dodgers played 11 games last year in their farewell spring at Vero Beach, Fla., and averaged 6,695.

[penncentralpete]

Even with a sour economy, the Dodgers turned out to be a big box-office hit in their first full Cactus League Spring Training.
The inaugural preseason at Camelback Ranch-Glendale drew 131,314 paid customers for 14 games and a per-game average of 9,367, both franchise records. The previous records set in Vero Beach, Fla., were 85,332 total attendance in 1992 and 6,504 average attendance in 1991.

[VIBaseball]

A good back story on how the Dodgers even came to Vero in the first place:

http://www.tcpalm.com/news/2009/apr/29/Holman-Vero-Beach-pioneers-dinner-heritage/

[Michael Green]

About the St. Patrick's Day parties, there's a picture in Bob Edwards's lovely book on Red Barber that shows Barber, Connie Desmond, and Young Scully surrounding Walter O'Malley at one of the parties. Lylah Barber mentioned in her memoir how much fun the parties were.