so confused

[jamesh23]

I throw my curveball with a either 1-7 rotation or 12-6 rotation and it only breaks if I throw it slow then its a really huge loopy curveball. but when i throw it semi hard around 55-60 it only breaks about 1" what gives? I know it spins right by the way.

[cubsphill]

when youre throwing it hard, youre probably not throwing it like a curveball, getting the snap.

[Baseball gLove]

I thought your elbow hurts? Curveballs are the worst thing you can throw if you have elbow pain.

[CoachB25]

I thought your elbow hurts? Curveballs are the worst thing you can throw if you have elbow pain.

Which is probably due to the curve in the first place. I'm not comfortable discussing the curve ball when every kid in America can read it here. Jamesh23, there is a safe way to throw a curve. If you are extending your arm out and popping your elbow, you are throwing it wrong. I guess the next question is why you think you need one? We won't let freshmen in our program throw a curve until I've worked with them one on one. Even at that, we assess their abilities and severely limit the number they may throw in a game. As a sophomore, we are also very guarded. With Sophs, we don't let them throw the deuce until the weather warms up some. Winning isn't that important. Besides, we get a lot of mileage out of the FB, cut FB and Change. Then, as a Jr. and Sr. we let them progress further. To be honest, even that age the deuce isn't acceptable for some. Baseball gLove is right, if your elbow is hurting, stop throwing the deuce. JMHO!

[jamesh23]

i dont do a wrist snap I hold it like a curveball, point my hand to my ear and pull down hard, I do not extend my elbow, I throw a maxline pronation curveball where I pronate. and im a sophomore and our coach requires we throw one. and a cut fastball is bad I thought since it requires supination like a weaker slider.

[cubsphill]

requires? its high school...

[Go Cardinals]

requires? its high school...

Talk about bad coaching...

[jamesh23]

Talk about bad coaching...

nah our coaching staff got coaches of the year our pitching and main coach anyway. last time I checked it wasnt dangerous to throw a curveball at 15...

[ralanprod]

When you're throwing slow it isn't a curve, it's gravity.

[cubsphill]

Talk about bad coaching...


for real.

i get by on 4seam, 2seam, circle change. all you need in high school.

it works for me in perfect games indoor league too, 17 k's in 6 innings giving up 1 hit.

[Go Cardinals]

nah our coaching staff got coaches of the year our pitching and main coach anyway. last time I checked it wasnt dangerous to throw a curveball at 15...

Last time I checked... throwing a curveball can cause injury even at the pro level.

Also, I know you don't want to hear this, but with pain in your elbow?

Also, with growth plates?

Who cares what awards he's won... especially with growth plates in your elbows, curves are not good...

Unless you do it 100% correctly a special way (which I'm unaware of how to produce or how accurate that statement even was), than it's bad.

[jamesh23]

for real.

i get by on 4seam, 2seam, circle change. all you need in high school.

it works for me in perfect games indoor league too, 17 k's in 6 innings giving up 1 hit.


how hard do you throw? its hard to get by with a 70 mph fastball and 60 mph changeup in JV... really hard especially when you have good control but throw meatballs all the time.

When you're throwing slow it isn't a curve, it's gravity.


I know that but it does break, I have been told my whoever I warm up with, it breaks 1-7.

[cubsphill]

mid-upper 80s.

my changeup is my best pitch but im reluctant to throw it. because my fastball ususally gets me by.

[jamesh23]

mid-upper 80s.

my changeup is my best pitch but im reluctant to throw it. because my fastball ususally gets me by.

exactly heck low 80's is usually enough to overpower highschool hitters. dont assume I can do what you can when you throw almost 20 miles harder than me.

[cubsphill]

i only threw 70s as a sophomore..

[Go Cardinals]

exactly heck low 80's is usually enough to overpower highschool hitters. dont assume I can do what you can when you throw almost 20 miles harder than me.

It's not all about VELOCITY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Drill]

Almost sounds like a slider the way you discribe it. Don't take my word for it because I have as must pitching knowlege as my tilda ~~~~~ key.


drill

[cubsphill]

It's not all about VELOCITY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

not at all, just give the first few hitters some head hunting pitches and you'll have the outside corner all day :)

[jamesh23]

i only threw 70s as a sophomore..

that leaves a lot of room? low 70's? or high 70's?

It's not all about VELOCITY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ya but your gonna get raped with a 70mph fastball and only decent control. evne if you can change speeds. but ya it is if you want to get looked at, they dont even look at you unless you hit 83 I think.

[jamesh23]

Almost sounds like a slider the way you discribe it. Don't take my word for it because I have as must pitching knowlege as my tilda ~~~~~ key.


drill

my curveball? no 1-7 is the same break as 11-5 or almost 12-6. a slider is like 3-9 or 2-8 I believe, I may also be wrong lol.

[cubsphill]

that leaves a lot of room? low 70's? or high 70's?



...

about mid. some days now, ill only sit at 78-82. thats if i havent pitched for a week though.

[Charger567]

ya but your gonna get raped with a 70mph fastball and only decent control. evne if you can change speeds. but ya it is if you want to get looked at, they dont even look at you unless you hit 83 I think.

Thats.. not true at all... In my brothers years in highschool, they had one pitcher who threw over 80 mph, and their ace threw 75. They weren't great, their defense sucked, but they went 12-7 lead by their pitching. If you mix speeds and throw strikes, you will be just fine. Especially at JV.

[Drill]

It like a good piece of real estate, location, location, location. You can play mind games with location fastball and change up curves, curves and more change up and a good fastball with a tail on it that you can control.


my son told me that, he love to catch pitchers that can locate the ball, it really gets fun than.

Don't worry about speed right now just location.


drill

[jamesh23]

It like a good piece of real estate, location, location, location. You can play mind games with location fastball and change up curves, curves and more change up and a good fastball with a tail on it that you can control.


my son told me that, he love to catch pitchers that can locate the ball, it really gets fun than.

Don't worry about speed right now just location.


drill

how, i throw strikes but they are all meatballs right down the center of the plate.

[Go Cardinals]

Just ask beemax who is a pro player now... he said he would much rather go against a flame thrower who throws flat than a guy like maddux. Beemax's dad also was a pro scout. His brother (deemax) pitched at the ... d1 level I think. Their dad was an amazing scout. You ask any scout in so cal (maybe more not sure) and they knew who he was. This is what you call a baseball family. Velocity is not the most important factor!

[Go Cardinals]

how, i throw strikes but they are all meatballs right down the center of the plate.

So learn to throw them somewhere else... not rocket science. Watch the pros, do they throw meatballs? Hard meatballs... no read my above post too...

[Drill]

how, i throw strikes but they are all meatballs right down the center of the plate.


low and out side, see how strong of a hitter they are than go inside on them or throw them a sucker pitch at eye level.

work it, get with your catcher and get a routine going, make a game within a game and have fun with the catcher. Don't worry about meat ball if you can toss a curve and a meat ball fast ball low and out side you will have varsity hitters talking to themselves. You are forcing them to hit at the next level. Watch and warn your fielders what you are doing because they will get a lot of pop ups and weak hit. It take a good hitter to tag a low and outside pitch to the opposite field. Locate you meat ball and I would stop calling it that. Just say that is your secret pitch.


have fun with it,

drill

[son who is sidearm]

my son throws in the low-mid 60's as a 7th grader and faced a true 8th grade team in a pre-season tourney. he threw nothing but 4 seam and 2 seam and cutter and hit the mit most of the time where the coach called for it to be. i will tell u he made them look bad only gave up 2 hits 4 k 1 hb and 1 run in 4 innings. he gave nothing up to the top 5 hitters but a hb on a missed cutter that stayed flat. like all of the posters before me its about hitting the spot(location).

also a cut fb is nothing like a slider. when throwing the cutt u slice the ball in half with the fingers. where the slider u flick ur wrist and turn like a door knob. that is the way it was told to me

[Chris O'Leary]

If you are extending your arm out and popping your elbow, you are throwing it wrong.

I know Leo Mazzone talks about this being bad, but I'm not convinced that everyone doesn't do this.

IOW, I don't think there's anything you can do to keep the elbow from extending fully, aside from maybe pronating.

[Chris O'Leary]

ya but your gonna get raped with a 70mph fastball and only decent control. evne if you can change speeds. but ya it is if you want to get looked at, they dont even look at you unless you hit 83 I think.

Jamie Moyer does just fine.

It's all about control and deception.

Making your change look just like your fastball. That means a 7 to 10 percent speed differential. If you FB is 70 then your change should be 63. That way they are very hard to tell apart but different enough to screw up the hitter's timing.

Throwing balls that are strikes way outside and that are hard to hit well.

[jamesh23]

my son throws in the low-mid 60's as a 7th grader and faced a true 8th grade team in a pre-season tourney. he threw nothing but 4 seam and 2 seam and cutter and hit the mit most of the time where the coach called for it to be. i will tell u he made them look bad only gave up 2 hits 4 k 1 hb and 1 run in 4 innings. he gave nothing up to the top 5 hitters but a hb on a missed cutter that stayed flat. like all of the posters before me its about hitting the spot(location).

also a cut fb is nothing like a slider. when throwing the cutt u slice the ball in half with the fingers. where the slider u flick ur wrist and turn like a door knob. that is the way it was told to me

oh ok, maybe ill add it to my repertoire.

Jamie Moyer does just fine.

It's all about control and deception.

Making your change look just like your fastball. That means a 7 to 10 percent speed differential. If you FB is 70 then your change should be 63. That way they are very hard to tell apart but different enough to screw up the hitter's timing.

Throwing balls that are strikes way outside and that are hard to hit well.

I hate how people say look at jamie moyer he only throws mid 80's.. well ya but he's a lefty and has natural movement. what is the average lefty velocity? like 88? anyway so all I need is some control, a 70mph fastball, 63 mph change, and maybe a cutter? and im set? right on thanks guys, what are somethings I can do to practice hitting the corners?

[Chris O'Leary]

what are somethings I can do to practice hitting the corners?

Practice hitting the corners.

[jamesh23]

Practice hitting the corners.

lol ok thanks and how do I throw a good cutter that will actually move?

[Chris O'Leary]

lol ok thanks and how do I throw a good cutter that will actually move?

I don't think the cutter is a safe pitch to throw.

The same thing goes for the slider and power curve.

[jamesh23]

I don't think the cutter is a safe pitch to throw.

The same thing goes for the slider and power curve.

ok thanks, well someone recommended I throw a cutter just makin sure though, thanks. and why the power curve though?

[CoachB25]

I don't think the cutter is a safe pitch to throw.

The same thing goes for the slider and power curve.

Chris, we throw the cutter with finger pressure off of a fastball. The arm action is not different and the ball will run 4-6 inches. What would be your reasoning that it is dangerous? Do you teach it this way or differently? Jamey Shouppe has a video out (Older one) on the hard curve. Have you seen it? I thought that it was very informative while at the same time, and under supervision of a coach, a good pitch to learn. JMHO! (I wouldn't recommend the hard curve for younger players.)

[Chris O'Leary]

Chris, we throw the cutter with finger pressure off of a fastball. The arm action is not different and the ball will run 4-6 inches. What would be your reasoning that it is dangerous? Do you teach it this way or differently? Jamey Shouppe has a video out (Older one) on the hard curve. Have you seen it? I thought that it was very informative while at the same time, and under supervision of a coach, a good pitch to learn. JMHO! (I wouldn't recommend the hard curve for younger players.)

I will acknowledge that this is theoretically safer (because it seems to be what Maddux does), but it still makes me nervous. It's hard to be sure whether the movement is from just the finger pressure or from supination of the forearm.

[Chris O'Leary]

ok thanks, well someone recommended I throw a cutter just makin sure though, thanks. and why the power curve though?

Because its a curve thrown at high speed and with greater force. Force nearing the slider (which I dont like).

[Charger567]

how, i throw strikes but they are all meatballs right down the center of the plate.

If that's the case, why the hell are you so concerned with velocity? It is very important, but it's not what you need to work on. You think if you throw harder, right down the middle that the balls aren't just going to go further? If you know what your problem is, why avoid it?

[Ursa Major]

To the extent that you can get into a game, don't overlook the benefits of changing speeds. Today in game condition BP (we called balls and strikes), our #4 pitcher was up against a pretty good hitter. Decent fastball low and outside corner, taken for strike one. Bit lazy curve that the batter hadn't seen before, taken for strike two. Kid still hadn't timed the pitcher, but was a little shaky. Third pitch, hard fastball right down the middle; the batter couldn't keep up with it. Strike three. Since the batter was the manager's son, the pitcher just earned himself a start somewhere early in the season.

I'm not saying you groove pitches with an 0-2 count, but rather that showing three different speeds with two different pitches can really make a difference. You can have two fastballs -- one that you can control better but don't throw for a strike unless it's a count where you think the batter will be taking, and one that's got your best gas but isn't necessarily quite so accurate. The trick is knowing when to throw each.