All-Time New York Team

[the_Bored]

Who are the best players at each position to ever play in New York? Basically, make a lineup/rotation consisting only of players from the Yankees, Mets, Brooklyn Dodgers and New York Giants.

[Honus Wagner Rules]

Starting Lineup
C- Yogi Berra
1B- Lou Gehrig
2B- Jackie Robinson
3B- A-Rod
SS- Derek Jeter
RF- Babe Ruth
CF- Mickey Mantle
LF- Rickey Henderson

Bench
Mike Piazza
Johnny Mize
Rogers Hornsby
Frankie Frisch
Pee Wee Reese
Reggie Jackson
Willie Mays
Duke Snider
Frank Baker

Starting Pitching
SP- Christy Mathewson
SP- Carl Hubbell
SP- Tom Seaver
SP- Whitey Ford
SP- Dazzy Vance

Relief Pitching
CP- Mariano Rivera
RP- Goose Gossage
RP- Sparky Lyle
RP- John Wetteland

[dabigyankeeman]

I couldnt add much to the post above me, except to say that since outfielders can basically play any outfield position, how can Joe Dimaggio not be in the starting outfield? As good as Henderson was, I will take Joe D any day over Rickey. Other than that, awesome job picking the team!

[Honus Wagner Rules]

I couldnt add much to the post above me, except to say that since outfielders can basically play any outfield position, how can Joe Dimaggio not be in the starting outfield? As good as Henderson was, I will take Joe D any day over Rickey. Other than that, awesome job picking the team!

I don't believe that outfieldrs can play other outfiled positions necessarily. Rickey was a left fielder and Joe D wasn't. Plus I want Rickey to lead off. I don't like to move OFers to other outhfield positions. It like when they give Gold Glove Awards to three center fielders. I hate that. That's like giving the four infield awards to four shortstops, makes no sense. Besides my lineups are not set in stone. On many days I'd probably start Joe D over Mantle.

[AutographCollector]

I'd add Mel Ott on the bench.

[GiambiJuice]

Willie is a benchwarmer?

[dabigyankeeman]

There is no doubt that Henderson is the greatest leadoff hitter of all time, but he was lacking in the field with a weak arm. Mantle played right field with DiMaggio in center, Mickey could move to left, and Henderson could be a DH and leadoff. Hard to keep Willie out of the starting lineup though, you know, Mantle originally was a shortstop, we could put Mickey at short and Willie in the outfield. I bet I am driving you nuts. Remember too, that Babe Ruth was a great pitcher, and he could pitch which would open up another outfield spot! Gotta think outside the box here! Anyway, I defy any other city to come up with a team like this - GO NEW YORK!

[Honus Wagner Rules]

There is no doubt that Henderson is the greatest leadoff hitter of all time, but he was lacking in the field with a weak arm. Mantle played right field with DiMaggio in center, Mickey could move to left, and Henderson could be a DH and leadoff. Hard to keep Willie out of the starting lineup though, you know, Mantle originally was a shortstop, we could put Mickey at short and Willie in the outfield. I bet I am driving you nuts. Remember too, that Babe Ruth was a great pitcher, and he could pitch which would open up another outfield spot! Gotta think outside the box here! Anyway, I defy any other city to come up with a team like this - GO NEW YORK!

In Rickey's younger day he was a very very good outfielder. He even played CF for the Yankee and should have one at least one GG. I didn't think of using a DH. If it allowed then of course that opens up a spot. I based my team more on Peak and Mantle was simply better than Willie at their respective peaks. But I have no problem starting Willie over Mantle. As for Ruth pitching he didn;t pitch for the Yankees so I can't honestly use him him as a pitcher.

[Honus Wagner Rules]

I'd add Mel Ott on the bench.

I totally forgot about Master Melvin! :( I'm not sure who I'd drop? Duke Snider?

[AutographCollector]

I totally forgot about Master Melvin! :( I'm not sure who I'd drop? Duke Snider?

Tough choice on who to drop. Sadly the "Duke of Flatbush" seems likes the only choice. :shrug:

[Scoops]

Starting Lineup
2B- Jackie Robinson

RF- Babe Ruth
CF- Mickey Mantle
LF- Rickey Henderson

Bench
Rogers Hornsby

Willie Mays
Duke Snider
I'd delete Henderson and Snider in favour of Ott and DiMaggio, personally. I'd also have Mantle in one corner (played about one season of each), Ruth in the other (he played about the same number of games in each) and Mays in center.

Also: If you're going to have Hornsby on the team, how is he not the starting 2B? Defense? The fact that he only played in NY for one season?

[Honus Wagner Rules]

I'd delete Henderson and Snider in favour of Ott and DiMaggio, personally. I'd also have Mantle in one corner (played about one season of each), Ruth in the other (he played about the same number of games in each) and Mays in center.

Also: If you're going to have Hornsby on the team, how is he not the starting 2B? Defense? The fact that he only played in NY for one season?

I want a great all around team. Having Jackie and Rickey give me that. I already have enough heavy hitters. Batting Rickey leadoff and Jackie #2 would be a devasting 1-2 punch at the top of the lineup. Besides I only count what a player did in NY. Hornsby had a great season in hs one year with the Giants. but Jackie at his best was pretty awesome as well.

Say is anyone esle going to post their all-time NY team?

[Honus Wagner Rules]

My lineup would be:

1. Henderson
2. Robinson
3. Ruth
4. Gehrig
5. Mantle
6. A-Rod
7. Jeter
8. Berra
9. Pitcher

[ElHalo]

Your 2Bman has to be Hornsby, and your SS has to be Arky Vaughan.

I'd go like this:

C: Yogi Berra
1B: Lou Gehrig
2B: Rogers Hornsby
SS: Arky Vaughan
3B: Alex Rodriguez
LF: Babe Ruth
CF: Willie Mays
RF: Joe DiMaggio (he played 18 games there in his career)
DH: Mickey Mantle

C: Bill Dickey (Or Mike Piazza, if you must)
1B: Johnny Mize
IF: Jackie Robinson
OF: Rickey Henderson
OF: Mel Ott
OF: Duke Snider

SP: Christy Matthewson
SP: Pedro Martinez
SP: Roger Clemens (or if you want to toss him for steroids, pick from Sandy Koufax or Carl Hubbell)
SP: Randy Johnson
SP: Warren Spahn

CL: Mariano Rivera
RP: Hoyt Wilhelm
RP: Goose Gossage
RP: Billy Wagner
Longman/Spot Starter: Joe McGinnity (chosen because he pitched extensively in relief, and could easily fulfill both a starting or relieving role)

I think this team can give an all-time non-NY team a run for its money. That bullpen is insanity; you can make a legitimate argument that Rivera, Wilhelm, Gossage, and Wagner are the top 4 relief pitchers of all time. You can also make an argument that this team has the offensive edge over the non-NY team at C, 1B, 2B, 3B, LF, CF, and DH. Pedro, Rocket, Randy Johnson, and Warren Spahn very nicely flesh out a rotation led by Christy Matthewson (the only "real" NY pitcher on the list). I'd give them a fighting chance against any other team ever.

[bob]

I can understand why you've got Henderson in there, it adds something other than pure slugging to the line-up but given the choice between Henderson and mays, Mays takes it for me no problem. In fact i cant think of a single fantasy line-up that he would be eligible but not actually get into!
The rest of your starting lineup i agree with.

[MadHatter]

I can understand why you've got Henderson in there, it adds something other than pure slugging to the line-up but given the choice between Henderson and mays, Mays takes it for me no problem. In fact i cant think of a single fantasy line-up that he would be eligible but not actually get into!
The rest of your starting lineup i agree with.

I agree - Mays is arguably one of the Top 5 players of all-time. He gets the nod.

[dl4060]

I don't believe that outfieldrs can play other outfiled positions necessarily. Rickey was a left fielder and Joe D wasn't. Plus I want Rickey to lead off. I don't like to move OFers to other outhfield positions. It like when they give Gold Glove Awards to three center fielders. I hate that. That's like giving the four infield awards to four shortstops, makes no sense. Besides my lineups are not set in stone. On many days I'd probably start Joe D over Mantle.

That makes sense if you are talking about moving from left to center, but not the other way around. Players move FROM center, I cannot believe that Joe D could not have handled left field at a competent level. There is less difference in outfield play between the positions than there is with infield play.

[Honus Wagner Rules]

That makes sense if you are talking about moving from left to center, but not the other way around. Players move FROM center, I cannot believe that Joe D could not have handled left field at a competent level. There is less difference in outfield play between the positions than there is with infield play.

I sure Joe D could have probably played LF but he didn't. Besides having Joe D as a pinch hitter would be awesome. And on some days I would start him in center field depending on the ballpark and starting pitcher. but I'm a strict believer in keeping position at their primary positions. Fair or not, Joe D has to compete for playing time with Willie Mays and Micky Mantle.

[Honus Wagner Rules]

I can understand why you've got Henderson in there, it adds something other than pure slugging to the line-up but given the choice between Henderson and mays, Mays takes it for me no problem. In fact i cant think of a single fantasy line-up that he would be eligible but not actually get into!
The rest of your starting lineup i agree with.

Bingo! What's the point of having all slugger types in my starting lineup? That's BORING! And Rickey was a great leadoff who could draw walks and make the pitcher go deep into counts.

[Honus Wagner Rules]

Pedro, Rocket, Randy Johnson, and Warren Spahn very nicely flesh out a rotation led by Christy Matthewson (the only "real" NY pitcher on the list). I'd give them a fighting chance against any other team ever.

So you would take these pitchers even though they were not dominant when they were on the NY teams, or in the case of Johnson and Spahn well past their prime?

[ElHalo]

So you would take these pitchers even though they were not dominant when they were on the NY teams, or in the case of Johnson and Spahn well past their prime?

The question refers to players who played for New York teams. It doesn't say anything about only counting their time with those New York teams toward the total. Spahn only played a half-season for the Mets, but with the way the question is worded, you get his entire 25 year career to count towards this. We're supposed to make teams of players "only from the Yankees, Mets, Brooklyn Dodgers, and New York Giants." It says nothing about us only counting their time with those teams toward their value.

[Honus Wagner Rules]

The question refers to players who played for New York teams. It doesn't say anything about only counting their time with those New York teams toward the total. Spahn only played a half-season for the Mets, but with the way the question is worded, you get his entire 25 year career to count towards this. We're supposed to make teams of players "only from the Yankees, Mets, Brooklyn Dodgers, and New York Giants." It says nothing about us only counting their time with those teams toward their value.

Using your logic the the All-Time California team gets to add the following. :)

Steve Carlton
Warren Spahn (part of the '65 season)
Joe Morgan
Joe Nathan

[NJMetfan4life]

Have The Babe pitch or DH, that stengthens the team.

[parlo]

There is too much emphasis on recent players and Yankees.
Whats John Wettland doing on an alltime list????

As far as pitchers go:
Mathewson, Hubbel, Seaver, Ford.

And Ricky Henderson does not belong ahead of Mays.
Neither does Mantle.

[Honus Wagner Rules]

There is too much emphasis on recent players and Yankees.
I have just three active players. Too many Yankees? Since they had Yogi, the Babe, Lou Gehrig, Mickey Mantle, and Joe DiMaggio there isn't much I can do. There is no other NY players to replace them with.



Whats John Wettland doing on an alltime list????
If you name me another closer to replace Wetteland with by all means let us know?



As far as pitchers go:
Mathewson, Hubbel, Seaver, Ford.
I have these four pitchers listed.



And Ricky Henderson does not belong ahead of Mays.
Neither does Mantle.

On my team they do. If you wish to post your team by all means do.

[ElHalo]

Using your logic the the All-Time California team gets to add the following. :)

Steve Carlton
Warren Spahn (part of the '65 season)
Joe Morgan
Joe Nathan

Well, yeah, if you want to expand it to a full state instead of a city.

[Honus Wagner Rules]

Well, yeah, if you want to expand it to a full state instead of a city.

The title of this thread in no way says "New York City". It says "New York". Since it was not clear it is subject to interpretation. I chose to interpret it as the entire state of New York. :)

[parlo]

HWRules,
I wasnt just referring to your post, but instead to the thread overall.
I also never mentioned "active" players, I said "recent" players, ie Randy Johnson, Mike Piazza, John Wetlend etc.
Meanwhile Roy Campanella hasnt been mentioned once at all.
The problem with these AllTimeTeam lists in my opinion, is that they too often favor players of the past 25 yrs or so.


As for the relievers, I need to look at the 1950s first.
And also Tug McGraw etc

[Scoops]

HWRules,
I wasnt just referring to your post, but instead to the thread overall.
I also never mentioned "active" players, I said "recent" players, ie Randy Johnson, Mike Piazza, John Wetlend etc.
Meanwhile Roy Campanella hasnt been mentioned once at all.
The problem with these AllTimeTeam lists in my opinion, is that they too often favor players of the past 25 yrs or so.


As for the relievers, I need to look at the 1950s first.
And also Tug McGraw etc
I may give you Wetteland, but do you really have a problem with one of the top 10 pitchers of all time and the best offensive catcher of all time showing up on an all time list? Wow... Seriously though, there's been about half a dozen recent players mentioned and they're all legitimately great players. Henderson is one of the best lead-off hitters ever, not to mention the career SB leader. A-Rod is one of the best current players and may well end up being one of the best all-time. Rivera is one of the best closers ever, as is Wagner. Roger Clemens is another top 10 all time pitcher. Pedro has one of the best peaks ever for a pitcher. You may not like "recent guys", but those ones all easily have a place in the discussion, if not on the list.

Also: Campanella was great, however Berra, Piazza and (arguably) Dickey were all better. A team only needs two catchers, and he might be third best. I would personally put him fourth behind Dickey, who is not that close to being on the team.

[parlo]

I may give you Wetteland, but do you really have a problem with one of the top 10 pitchers of all time and the best offensive catcher of all time showing up on an all time list? Wow... Seriously though, there's been about half a dozen recent players mentioned and they're all legitimately great players. Henderson is one of the best lead-off hitters ever, not to mention the career SB leader. A-Rod is one of the best current players and may well end up being one of the best all-time. Rivera is one of the best closers ever, as is Wagner. Roger Clemens is another top 10 all time pitcher. Pedro has one of the best peaks ever for a pitcher. You may not like "recent guys", but those ones all easily have a place in the discussion, if not on the list.

Also: Campanella was great, however Berra, Piazza and (arguably) Dickey were all better. A team only needs two catchers, and he might be third best. I would personally put him fourth behind Dickey, who is not that close to being on the team.

Of course all of these players have a place in the discussion. I am not denying that. But I do think that many of the choices so far, favor players from the last twenty years.
I would put Campanella third. What I found amazing was that his name never even came up.
There are also pitching lists that have included Pedro, Randy Johnson, and Clemens, while not even mentioning Seaver.
Go figure!

[Honus Wagner Rules]

HWRules,
I wasnt just referring to your post, but instead to the thread overall.
I also never mentioned "active" players, I said "recent" players, ie Randy Johnson, Mike Piazza, John Wetlend etc.
Meanwhile Roy Campanella hasnt been mentioned once at all.
The problem with these AllTimeTeam lists in my opinion, is that they too often favor players of the past 25 yrs or so.


As for the relievers, I need to look at the 1950s first.
And also Tug McGraw etc


Well as for the team I posted I don't think I am biased towards the more modern players. I have all the Yankee greats of the past. Perhaps I am heavy on modern players with relief pitcher a bit but I lean towards the more modern 1-2 inning guys over the older guys because they have more high quality performances. Campanella was a great catcher but he had yo-yo seasons, poor seasons among his MVP seasons, and he didn't have a long career.

Also, BBF is different from most of the bseball fans. There has been great debate over many people leaning heavily towards the older players. Some people's lists have something like 75%-80% pre-1940 players. And that isn't right either.

[parlo]

Well as for theam I post I don't think I am biased towards the more modern players. I have all the Yankee greats of pasts. Perhaps I am heavy on modern players with relief pitcher a bit but I lean towards the more modern 1-2 inning guys over the older guys because they have more high qaulity performances. Campanella was a great catcher but he had yo-yo seasons, poor seasons among his MVP seasons, and he didn't have a long career.

Also, BBF is different from most of the bseball fans. There has been great debate over many people leaning heavily towards the older players. Some people's liss many have something like 75%-80% pre-1940 players. And that isn't right either.

I agree with your entire post here.
Its hard to compare relievers from different eras because the job description changed about every 15 years.
I tend to discount the present day relievers with the exception of Mariano.

I think the other problem I am having with this list is that players who played here for less than 5 years (peak or not) are included.
How long was Wetteland in NY??? Two years maybe???
If thats the criteria, then I need to look at Jeff Reardon.

[Honus Wagner Rules]

I agree with your entire post here.
Its hard to compare relievers from different eras because the job description changed about every 15 years.
I tend to discount the present day relievers with the exception of Mariano.

I think the other problem I am having with this list is that players who played here for less than 5 years (peak or not) are included.
How long was Wetteland in NY??? Two years maybe???
If thats the criteria, then I need to look at Jeff Reardon.

I'm using the ElHalo rule here. Any player can be claimed as Yankee no matter how long or how good he was with the Yankees. Shoot, he's claiming Warren Spahn as a Yankee. :rofl:

[parlo]

I'm using the ElHalo rule here. Any player can be claimed as Yankee no matter how long or how good he was with the Yankees. Shoot, he's claiming Warren Spahn as a Yankee. :rofl:
If that is the case, then an all time Mets team could include
Richie Ashburn
Ken Boyer
Willie Mays
Duke Snider
Yogi Berra
Gil Hodges
Joe Torre
Eddie Murray
Warren Spahn
Amos Otis
Jeff Kent

[Honus Wagner Rules]

If that is the case, then an all time Mets team could include
Richie Ashburn
Ken Boyer
Willie Mays
Duke Snider
Yogi Berra
Gil Hodges
Joe Torre
Eddie Murray
Warren Spahn
Amos Otis
Jeff Kent

Well, there you go. :)

[Knick9]

Starting Lineup
C- Yogi Berra
1B- Lou Gehrig
2B- Jackie Robinson
3B- A-Rod
SS- Derek Jeter
RF- Babe Ruth
CF- Mickey Mantle
LF- Willie Mays

Bench
Mike Piazza
Johnny Mize
Rogers Hornsby
Frankie Frisch
Pee Wee Reese
Reggie Jackson
Duke Snider
Frank Baker

Starting Pitching
SP- Christy Mathewson
SP- Carl Hubbell
SP- Tom Seaver
SP- Whitey Ford
SP- Dazzy Vance

Relief Pitching
CP- Mariano Rivera
RP- Goose Gossage
RP- Sparky Lyle
RP- John Wetteland
Spot SP- Dwight "Doc" Gooden

These are the changes I see happening. Where's Rickey? He's off to Palm Beach! :rofl:

[philkid3]

HWRules,
I wasnt just referring to your post, but instead to the thread overall.
I also never mentioned "active" players, I said "recent" players, ie Randy Johnson, Mike Piazza, John Wetlend etc.
Meanwhile Roy Campanella hasnt been mentioned once at all.
The problem with these AllTimeTeam lists in my opinion, is that they too often favor players of the past 25 yrs or so.


As for the relievers, I need to look at the 1950s first.
And also Tug McGraw etc

Randy Johnson and Mike Piazza are really, really awesome. What's the problem here?

And Wetteland should be scoffed at because of Tug McGraw?

[parlo]

Randy Johnson and Mike Piazza are really, really awesome. What's the problem here?

And Wetteland should be scoffed at because of Tug McGraw? The problem I have is that Wetteland and Johnson only spent two years in NY. As great as Piazza is, he defense was a liability while in NY. I have no problem with someone ranking him #2 to Berra. But I dont think it is a slam dunk.

I never said McGraw was better, I said I need to look at him.
I have a hard time with relievers because of the changes that have taken place.
They used to rack up a lot more innings and twenty saves was a big deal.

My point is simply that I think there are some relievers pre 1977 that probably

deserve to be included in the discussion.

I will also point out that I tend to favor players who had a minimum of five years in NY while in their prime.

Therefore, I am comparing Piazzas time in NY with Campanellas time in NY.

[MyDogSparty]

Anyway, I defy any other city to come up with a team like this - GO NEW YORK!

No doubt that there is great baseball history in the city of NY but I'm hoping you realize that it is really not fair to defy another city to field a better team than NY due to the fact that most cities/states only have had only 1 franchise from which to choose players and probably fewer seasons to choose from as well.

[philkid3]

The problem I have is that Wetteland and Johnson only spent two years in NY. As great as Piazza is, he defense was a liability while in NY. I have no problem with someone ranking him #2 to Berra. But I dont think it is a slam dunk.
Who said he was a slam dunk? If you don't have a problem with him being behind Berra (and you shouldn't have a problem with him ahead of Berra, either), then there's no problem.

And as has been pointed out, the OP never specified how long a player had to play in New York, he just said the greatest players to ever play in New York.



Therefore, I am comparing Piazzas time in NY with Campanellas time in NY.
That favors Piazza pretty much.

[parlo]

Who said he was a slam dunk? If you don't have a problem with him being behind Berra (and you shouldn't have a problem with him ahead of Berra, either), then there's no problem.

And as has been pointed out, the OP never specified how long a player had to play in New York, he just said the greatest players to ever play in New York.



That favors Piazza pretty much.

OK let me get this straight....
You claim that it is not a slam dunk, but how dare anyone disagree with you.

[philkid3]

OK let me get this straight....
You claim that it is not a slam dunk, but how dare anyone disagree with you.

No, you do not have it straight.

[ElHalo]

No doubt that there is great baseball history in the city of NY but I'm hoping you realize that it is really not fair to defy another city to field a better team than NY due to the fact that most cities/states only have had only 1 franchise from which to choose players and probably fewer seasons to choose from as well.

If you want to live in the sticks, that's your problem. Don't come crying to the civilized folk because your city can't rate.

[MyDogSparty]

If you want to live in the sticks, that's your problem. Don't come crying to the civilized folk because your city can't rate.

Where I live is not the problem. He's asking someone to compare apples to oranges and I said so. I stated the truth. Too bad if you don't like it. Instead of refuting the truth you try to make it personal. Civilized folk? You sound like just another cyber punk trying to use your schtick on a message board.

[parlo]

Where I live is not the problem. He's asking someone to compare apples to oranges and I said so. I stated the truth. Too bad if you don't like it. Instead of refuting the truth you try to make it personal. Civilized folk? You sound like just another cyber punk trying to use your schtick on a message board.Actually Missouri puts together a very good All Time list.
St Louis Cardinals and Browns
Kansas City As and Royals
Even the Monarchs can be included.

Pennsylvania does well with Pirates, Phillies, and As.
And for a much shorter history, the Bay Area does well with the Giants and A's.
Granted the Yankee dynasty up to 1964 does provide a big advantage. But if you use an entire state (Missouri),or region (SoCal), there are plenty of teams, and players to choose from.

[MyDogSparty]

Actually Missouri puts together a very good All Time list.
St Louis Cardinals and Browns
Kansas City As and Royals
Even the Monarchs can be included.

Pennsylvania does well with Pirates, Phillies, and As.
And for a much shorter history, the Bay Area does well with the Giants and A's.
Granted the Yankee dynasty up to 1964 does provide a big advantage. But if you use an entire state (Missouri),or region (SoCal), there are plenty of teams, and players to choose from.


The person I quoted specifically said "I defy another CITY to field a better team". He didn't say I defy another STATE. And I replied that "MOST cities/states only have had only 1 franchise from which to choose". Everything I said is true. I even gave NY credit for having a very rich baseball tradition and I see no problem with naming an all NY team. I clearly realize that not all states had 1 franchise. But my point still remains that when you limit things to just the CITY of NY vs. other cities, it's comparing apples to oranges. I guess some people just can't handle the truth and feel the need to take things to a personal level.

[dabigyankeeman]

I am the person who defied another city to come up with a team like the New York team. Tell ya what, taking just one team, the Yankees, no other team can compare. Ruth, Gehrig, DiMaggio, Mantle, Berra, Ford, Reggie, Winfield, Mattingly, Jeter, Clemens, Rivera, etc., I could go on for a loooong time. So there! (just in fun).

How about picking a team of your FAVORITE NON-SUPERSTAR players, this is interesting because it shows what players really got to you over the years, which ones became favorites of yours even though they were not superstars. Picking just players i have seen play, my team would be:

C - Joe Girardi
1B - Bill "Moose" Skowron
2B - Wally Backman
SS - Bucky Dent
3B - Clete Boyer
OF - Lou Piniella
OF - Lenny Dykstra
OF - Hank Bauer
DH - Dave Kingman
SP - David Cone
RP - Ron Davis

Of that team i just listed, my absolute favorite would be Lou Piniella, Sweet Lou looked awkward in the field yet always seemed to make the big play, he always kept rallies going at bat, and he argues and goes nuts with the best of them!

[Baseball Guru]

If you want to get real technical and add any player that played in New York (state) you could add players like Dan Brouthers, Pud Galvin, Tim Keefe,Tim Keefe and Buck Ewing;)

[parlo]

The person I quoted specifically said "I defy another CITY to field a better team". He didn't say I defy another STATE. And I replied that "MOST cities/states only have had only 1 franchise from which to choose". Everything I said is true. I even gave NY credit for having a very rich baseball tradition and I see no problem with naming an all NY team. I clearly realize that not all states had 1 franchise. But my point still remains that when you limit things to just the CITY of NY vs. other cities, it's comparing apples to oranges. I guess some people just can't handle the truth and feel the need to take things to a personal level."Most cities/states have had only one franchise from which to choose"
I am not sure if that is true.
Boston has the Braves, Red Sox.
Ohio has Reds, Indians.
Chicago has Cubs, White Sox,
Philadelphia has A's, Phillies. PA can include Pirates.
St Louis and KC both have two teams.
Texas and Florida have two teams (short history).
Milwaukee has the Braves and Brewers
Baltimore and Washington are close enough to combine.
Los Angeles has two teams, plus SD and PCL
San Francisco has two teams, plus PCL
Toronto and Montreal are close enough.

The only teams that are tough to group is Atlanta, Colorado, Detroit, Minnesota, , Seattle, and Arizona. Three of those teams are expansion teams, and two of them are relocated teams.

[Baseball Guru]

The only teams that are tough to group is Atlanta, Colorado, Detroit, Minnesota, , Seattle, and Arizona. Three of those teams are expansion teams, and two of them are relocated teams.

Detroit actually had a team play there in the 1880's in the NL, called the Wolverines that had a few HOF'ers on those teams and Seattle had the Pilots back in 1969...

[parlo]

DABIGYANKEE,
I came of age baseballwise in the early seventies.
1B Keith Hernandez
2B Felix Millan
SS Jeter
3B Hubie Brooks
OF Paul ONeil
OF Lenny Dykstra/Bernie Williams
OF Cleon Jones
Honorable mention Lou Pinella/Rusty Staub

SP Tom Seaver
SP Jerry Koosman
SP Jimmy Key
SP David Cone
SP Al Leiter

I dont think I have a catcher that I
would call a personal favorite

[parlo]

Detroit actually had a team play there in the 1880's in the NL, called the Wolverines that had a few HOF'ers on those teams and Seattle had the Pilots back in 1969...Thanks for the Detroit info.
I am well aware of the Pilots, but thought that a one year expansion team would be stretching it a little too much for use in an ALL TIME TEAM.

[dabigyankeeman]

Actually, it just shows how lucky we New Yorkers are to come from there and have so many teams to watch and root for. Even if you are young and didnt see the Dodgers or Giants, right now you have multiple teams in all sports, its fantastic! For me, while I have my favorites (Yankees, football Giants, Knicks, Rangers), I still root for the other New York teams too in their respective league. I am not into this thing where people say if you love the Mets you gotta hate the Yankees, etc. Thats bull, they are all New York teams, root for all of them, and then root for your favorites when they play each other. Anyway, no matter what anybody says, if you are a sports fan you are better off being from New York than anywhere else! :highfive:

[Baseball Guru]

Thanks for the Detroit info.
I am well aware of the Pilots, but thought that a one year expansion team would be stretching it a little too much for use in an ALL TIME TEAM.

That and along with the fact tthat there was probably no one from that team to pick from anyways:rofl:

And you are welcome:)

[parlo]

Actually, it just shows how lucky we New Yorkers are to come from there and have so many teams to watch and root for. Even if you are young and didnt see the Dodgers or Giants, right now you have multiple teams in all sports, its fantastic! For me, while I have my favorites (Yankees, football Giants, Knicks, Rangers), I still root for the other New York teams too in their respective league. I am not into this thing where people say if you love the Mets you gotta hate the Yankees, etc. Thats bull, they are all New York teams, root for all of them, and then root for your favorites when they play each other. Anyway, no matter what anybody says, if you are a sports fan you are better off being from New York than anywhere else! :highfive:
In my traveling days, the best sports cities I witnessed outside of NY are St Louis, Boston, Chicago. Honorable mention goes to Cleveland, KC, Baltimore and Pittsburgh.
There are some good towns in the south and west, but it is predominately football, with baseball being a distant second or third.

Worst sports town that I have witnessed...... San Diego. Hands down!

[MyDogSparty]

"Most cities/states have had only one franchise from which to choose"
I am not sure if that is true.
Boston has the Braves, Red Sox.
Ohio has Reds, Indians.
Chicago has Cubs, White Sox,
Philadelphia has A's, Phillies. PA can include Pirates.
St Louis and KC both have two teams.
Texas and Florida have two teams (short history).
Milwaukee has the Braves and Brewers
Baltimore and Washington are close enough to combine.
Los Angeles has two teams, plus SD and PCL
San Francisco has two teams, plus PCL
Toronto and Montreal are close enough.

The only teams that are tough to group is Atlanta, Colorado, Detroit, Minnesota, , Seattle, and Arizona. Three of those teams are expansion teams, and two of them are relocated teams.

It's kindof convienent to include teams with short histories like Texas, Houston, Florida, Kansas City, Anahiem, Toronto, Montreal and then include Milwaukee along with the Braves when they don't really overlap in playing seasons. That is why I also mentioned comparing the number of seasons in my original reply. My reply was well thought out and the truth still holds. You can't really refute it. If you're going to get technical then NO, you can't add Toronto and Montreal, you can't add Milwaukee and the Braves as having multiple teams because their histories don't overlap like NY city, Los Angeles is not Anaheim, and Baltimore is not Washington.

It's nice to try to frame the argument in your favor but again it's not addressing the original comment now is it? The originator of the coment said to compare a single CITY (New York) vs. any other CITY. Not only are you continuing to combine cities within states but now you're adding minor league teams? His comment is comparing apples to oranges. PERIOD.

[MyDogSparty]

I am the person who defied another city to come up with a team like the New York team. Tell ya what, taking just one team, the Yankees, no other team can compare. Ruth, Gehrig, DiMaggio, Mantle, Berra, Ford, Reggie, Winfield, Mattingly, Jeter, Clemens, Rivera, etc., I could go on for a loooong time. So there! (just in fun).

I appreciate the "fun" comment. I really do because I think people are starting to get personal. In response to your challenge, I've always felt that the Giant organization compares favorably to the Yankees. The Giants have (Mays, Bonds, Ott, McCovey, Ewing, Frisch, Mathewson, Hubbell, Marichal, Cepeda, Irvin, Davis, Davenport, Jackson, Bresnahan, Youngs, Keefe, Welch, Rusie, Perry, McGinnity, Williams, McGraw, Kent, Doyle, etc.)

The Giants probably have more HOFers in total as being their primary team.

PS: Don't forget Arod.

[parlo]

It's kindof convienent to include teams with short histories like Texas, Houston, Florida, Kansas City, Anahiem, Toronto, Montreal and then include Milwaukee along with the Braves when they don't really overlap in playing seasons. That is why I also mentioned comparing the number of seasons in my original reply. My reply was well thought out and the truth still holds. You can't really refute it. If you're going to get technical then NO, you can't add Toronto and Montreal, you can't add Milwaukee and the Braves as having multiple teams because their histories don't overlap like NY city, Los Angeles is not Anaheim, and Baltimore is not Washington.

It's nice to try to frame the argument in your favor but again it's not addressing the original comment now is it? The originator of the coment said to compare a single CITY (New York) vs. any other CITY. Not only are you continuing to combine cities within states but now you're adding minor league teams? His comment is comparing apples to oranges. PERIOD."Most cities/states have only one franchise from which to choose from"
That is your comment and that is what I am replying to.
And I would not consider the KC Monarchs a minor league team.
I also made it clear that Texas and Florida teams have a short history.
"My comment was well thought out and the truth still holds. You really cant refute it." Whatever you say!
And if I am willing to include five teams from Missouri, how is that framing the argument in my favor??????? Or three teams from PA? Again, read your comment above about " most cities/states having only one team to choose from". I disagree with your comment.
Its not the number of teams NY has had. Its the Yankees alone that account for the disparity.

[MyDogSparty]

"Most cities/states have only one franchise from which to choose from"
That is your comment and that is what I am replying to.
And I would not consider the KC Monarchs a minor league team.
I also made it clear that Texas and Florida teams have a short history.
"My comment was well thought out and the truth still holds. You really cant refute it." Whatever you say!
And if I am willing to include five teams from Missouri, how is that framing the argument in my favor??????? Or three teams from PA? Again, read your comment above about " most cities/states having only one team to choose from". I disagree with your comment.
Its not the number of teams NY has had. Its the Yankees alone that account for the disparity.

It's a fact that most cities have only one team to choose from. You can't argue that.

If you want to argue that most states have more than one franchise that's fine but it's not the point of discussion. I don't know how to spell it out to you any more clearly. The original comment was a challenge to produce another CITY that compared to NY. Do you understand that?

Now if you want to pick apart how many states have multiple franchise that's fine. I'm well aware of the history and I know that teams like the Colt 45's, the Highlanders, the Pilots, the Wolverines, etc. existed. But they didn't exist concurrently which is why I mentioned counting the number of seasons these cities/states had teams. New York city had more teams and had them for the longest time and they had them concurrently which means they probably have more to choose from than most any other city/state you can come up with.


And if I am willing to include five teams from Missouri, how is that framing the argument in my favor??????? Or three teams from PA? Again, read your comment above about " most cities/states having only one team to choose from". I disagree with your comment.
Its not the number of teams NY has had. Its the Yankees alone that account for the disparity.

To that I would say, count the number of seasons from each franchise that your're comparing and then count the number or seasons that the city of NY can account for. Who has more? Do most cities/states have more? I really doubt it. Therefore I think my statement is still accurate.

[parlo]

It's a fact that most cities have only one team to choose from. You can't argue that.

If you want to argue that most states have more than one franchise that's fine but it's not the point of discussion. I don't know how to spell it out to you any more clearly. The original comment was a challenge to produce another CITY that compared to NY. Do you understand that?

Now if you want to pick apart how many states have multiple franchise that's fine. I'm well aware of the history and I know that teams like the Colt 45's, the Highlanders, the Pilots, the Wolverines, etc. existed. But they didn't exist concurrently which is why I mentioned counting the number of seasons these cities/states had teams. New York city had more teams and had them for the longest time and they had them concurrently which means they probably have more to choose from than most any other city/state you can come up with. It's a fact, get over it.Once again, I was responding to your comment that stated "Most cities/states have only one team from which to choose from"
Apparently you dont agree with that comment either, because you have now changed it to "Its a fact that most cities have only one team to choose from"
You also state that "if you want to argue that most states have more than one franchise, thats fine but its not the point of discussion"
Once again, you are the one who made the comment that "most cities/states have only one team from which to choose from."

And if you are going to change your argument in midstream, you should refrain from comments such as "Its a fact, get over it", or "I dont know how to spell it out to you any more clearly."

[MyDogSparty]

Once again, I was responding to your comment that stated "Most cities/states have only one team from which to choose from"
Apparently you dont agree with that comment either, because you have now changed it to "Its a fact that most cities have only one team to choose from"
You also state that "if you want to argue that most states have more than one franchise, thats fine but its not the point of discussion"
Once again, you are the one who made the comment that "most cities/states have only one team from which to choose from."

And if you are going to change your argument in midstream, you should refrain from comments such as "Its a fact, get over it", or "I dont know how to spell it out to you any more clearly."

Dude, the forward slash means "or", so I split the sentence into two so that you would better understand it. Apparently the attempt was lost on you. I'm not changing my statement. You're taking that comment and isolating it from the rest of my paragraph that it's related to. You can continue to play your little games, that's fine but I stand behind my statement. I've attempted to explain it to you several times but I'm giving up. The main point of my conversation, which you continually refuse to acknowledge, is that to original poster challenged us to find another CITY to compare to NY. Can you do that? ...I didn't think so (not without combining different cities or minor leagues). Why, because it's comparing apples to oranges.

[parlo]

Dude, the forward slash means "or", so I split the sentence into two so that you would better understand it. Apparently the attempt was lost on you. I'm not changing my statement. You're taking that comment and isolating it from the rest of my paragraph that it's related to. You can continue to play your little games, that's fine but I stand behind my statement. I've attempted to explain it to you several times but I'm giving up. The main point of my conversation, which you continually refuse to acknowledge, is that to original poster challenged us to find another CITY to compare to NY. Can you do that? ...I didn't think so (not without combining different cities or minor leagues). Why, because it's comparing apples to oranges.Thank you for the grammar lesson and the explanation of what a forward slash is.
I went back and read some of your posts on other threads and a common theme of yours is to imply that the person you disagree with is incapable of understanding.
You are more in love with the argument, than the issue. You will even change the issue in order to win the argument. You will then imply that the other person is ignorant.
Not the type of poster I want to spend a Saturday afternoon talking baseball with.

I did go back and count baseball seasons though.
From 1901-2000, the number of baseball seasons:
Pennsylvania A's Phillies Pirates 254
NY Yankees Giants Dodgers Mets 253
Missouri Cards Browns A's Royals Monarchs 226 (give or take depending on how many Monarch years are counted
OH Reds Indians 202
Chicago Cubs White Sox 202

So the argument that NY had all these extra baseball seasons compared to the others doesnt really hold up. They have a lot, but so did other places.
The strength of the NY All Time team is due to the Yankees great players. Not that NY had more teams and therefore more seasons.
Im not even a Yankee fan, but you have to respect Ruth, Gehrig, DiMaggio, Mantle, Berra etc. The Yankee all time team by itself would outdo other cities/states all time teams.

[dabigyankeeman]

I appreciate the "fun" comment. I really do because I think people are starting to get personal. In response to your challenge, I've always felt that the Giant organization compares favorably to the Yankees. The Giants have (Mays, Bonds, Ott, McCovey, Ewing, Frisch, Mathewson, Hubbell, Marichal, Cepeda, Irvin, Davis, Davenport, Jackson, Bresnahan, Youngs, Keefe, Welch, Rusie, Perry, McGinnity, Williams, McGraw, Kent, Doyle, etc.)

The Giants probably have more HOFers in total as being their primary team.

PS: Don't forget Arod.

Yes, these posts should all be done in a light-hearted vein and not get into personal attacks. Now then, the Giants certainly had a lot of great players, but I still will take the Yankees over them. You got Ewing huh? Well, he certainly was a good basketball player for New York! :rofl:

By the way, i just got home from a card show, and believe it or not, i bought 3 cards and they were all Giants - 1958 Cepeda rookie, 1958 Mays All-Star, and 1956 Giants team card! I wanted to buy Yankees and Dodgers, but you gotta buy whats available thats on your wantlist, so there it is, 3 Giants!

Whats great is that we can argue over which team had the greatest, and we are staying in the city of New York. You should have seen me at the card show, wearing a Yankee watch, a Yankee pendant, and an incredible replica of Joe Torre's 1976 World Series championship ring. The only problem is that wearing all that Yankee bling, the dealers want to sell me cards that I cant afford, they think I am rich (which I am NOT, but it wouldnt be bad to be!).

Hey, Giants vs Yankees, who took better drugs, Bonds or Clemens?:rofl:

[digglahhh]

Where I live is not the problem. He's asking someone to compare apples to oranges and I said so. I stated the truth. Too bad if you don't like it. Instead of refuting the truth you try to make it personal. Civilized folk? You sound like just another cyber punk trying to use your schtick on a message board.

Keep in mind, El Halo lives in LONG ISLAND!!

Just because you threw up at McSorley's once (or more than once), that doesn't give you claim to the five boroughs! :)

[MyDogSparty]

You are more in love with the argument, than the issue.

Hello Pot, meet the kettle. The issue was city vs. city. I threw the words most states in there along with the word season and according to you there's one state that has more to chose from than NY. That's certainly not most.

[Baseball Guru]

There's no need for any attacks on any level here..

I think there is just confusion because the thread topic is " All-Time New York Team"

I take that to mean any player that has ever played in the state of New York... Lots of cities in NY that have had teams that can fall into that category...

Then he goes on to say "Basically, make a lineup/rotation consisting only of players from the Yankees, Mets, Brooklyn Dodgers and New York Giants."

Not sure why you would limit it to just those teams as there have been teams like the Buffalo Bisons, New York Metropolitans, Brooklyn Tip-Tops and the New York Mutuals that have fielded HOF'ers...

Again, I dont see any reason to get too upset about things..

[dabigyankeeman]

Buffalo is NOT New York. In fact, nothing north of Westchester deserves to part of New York, it should be a separate state. New York is the city and Long Island, and thats that! :)

[parlo]

Buffalo is NOT New York. In fact, nothing north of Westchester deserves to part of New York, it should be a separate state. New York is the city and Long Island, and thats that! :)Why are you including Long Island then???

[Baseball Guru]

Buffalo is NOT New York. In fact, nothing north of Westchester deserves to part of New York, it should be a separate state. New York is the city and Long Island, and thats that! :)

Hmmm, funny that when I write to a friend in Buffalo, I always have to put NY at the end of the address;)

Sure would be a small state if it were separate:)

[dabigyankeeman]

Why are you including Long Island then???

Long Island and New York City are just different from the rest of the state, the rest of the state just doesnt rate.

Its the same in Florida, where i live now, they should draw a line across the state at the northern tip of Tampa thru Orlando to Daytona, and everything from those cities south is Florida, and everything north should be a different state. Just like in New York, the northern parts of these states are hicks from the sticks compared to the southern part. :)

Buffalo, ha! New Jersey is more a part of New York than Buffalo is. :p

[White Knight]

Starting Lineup
C- Yogi Berra
1B- Lou Gehrig
2B- Jackie Robinson
3B- A-Rod
SS- Derek Jeter
RF- Babe Ruth
CF- Mickey Mantle
LF- Rickey Henderson

Bench
Mike Piazza
Johnny Mize
Rogers Hornsby
Frankie Frisch
Pee Wee Reese
Reggie Jackson
Willie Mays
Duke Snider
Frank Baker

Starting Pitching
SP- Christy Mathewson
SP- Carl Hubbell
SP- Tom Seaver
SP- Whitey Ford
SP- Dazzy Vance

Relief Pitching
CP- Mariano Rivera
RP- Goose Gossage
RP- Sparky Lyle
RP- John Wetteland

Jackie Robinson was better than Rogers Hornsby? :noidea

[parlo]

Long Island and New York City are just different from the rest of the state, the rest of the state just doesnt rate.

Its the same in Florida, where i live now, they should draw a line across the state at the northern tip of Tampa thru Orlando to Daytona, and everything from those cities south is Florida, and everything north should be a different state. Just like in New York, the northern parts of these states are hicks from the sticks compared to the southern part. :)

Buffalo, ha! New Jersey is more a part of New York than Buffalo is. :pThats true in a lot of states though.
Northern California vs Southern; Eastern Pennsylvania vs Central and Western;
Chicago vs the rest of Illinois; Northern Virginia vs Western VA.
Sure, the Florida panhandle is more culturally tied to the neighboring southern states than it is to Miami.
I still dont know if I would group all of Long Island with NYC

[philkid3]

Long Island and New York City are just different from the rest of the state, the rest of the state just doesnt rate.

Its the same in Florida, where i live now, they should draw a line across the state at the northern tip of Tampa thru Orlando to Daytona, and everything from those cities south is Florida, and everything north should be a different state. Just like in New York, the northern parts of these states are hicks from the sticks compared to the southern part. :)

Buffalo, ha! New Jersey is more a part of New York than Buffalo is. :p

Surely there is no seriousness to this. . . this.

[ElHalo]

Keep in mind, El Halo lives in LONG ISLAND!!

Just because you threw up at McSorley's once (or more than once), that doesn't give you claim to the five boroughs! :)

Hey buddy! I live on Long Island, but I work in lower Manhattan 5 1/2 days a week. I just actually got back in the door after driving back from work (and spending a small time apartment looking in Sunnyside, Queens). I'm just as New York as the next guy. :-)

[Honus Wagner Rules]

Jackie Robinson was better than Rogers Hornsby? :noidea

My reasons for starting Jackie over Hornsby:

1) Jackie was a career Dodger, Hornsby played one season with the Giants.
2) Jackie was a temendous defensive player, Hornsby was not
3) Jackie was a game changing baserunner, causing much havoc on the basepaths
4) I don't want a lineup of all sluggers. That to me is very BORING.

[JayJohnstone]

It's kindof convienent to include teams with short histories like Texas, Houston, Florida, Kansas City, Anahiem, Toronto, Montreal and then include Milwaukee along with the Braves when they don't really overlap in playing seasons. That is why I also mentioned comparing the number of seasons in my original reply. My reply was well thought out and the truth still holds. You can't really refute it. If you're going to get technical then NO, you can't add Toronto and Montreal, you can't add Milwaukee and the Braves as having multiple teams because their histories don't overlap like NY city, Los Angeles is not Anaheim, and Baltimore is not Washington.

It's nice to try to frame the argument in your favor but again it's not addressing the original comment now is it? The originator of the coment said to compare a single CITY (New York) vs. any other CITY. Not only are you continuing to combine cities within states but now you're adding minor league teams? His comment is comparing apples to oranges. PERIOD.If the number of seasons is all that matters, then the Chicago Cubs and White Sox combined all time team should be twice as good as the Yankees. That is two teams from one city playing twice as many seasons as the Yankees.

[JayJohnstone]

Long Island and New York City are just different from the rest of the state, the rest of the state just doesnt rate.

Its the same in Florida, where i live now, they should draw a line across the state at the northern tip of Tampa thru Orlando to Daytona, and everything from those cities south is Florida, and everything north should be a different state. Just like in New York, the northern parts of these states are hicks from the sticks compared to the southern part. :)

Buffalo, ha! New Jersey is more a part of New York than Buffalo is. :pSo you grew up in Long Island, and now live in Florida. It sounds as if you are about as suburban as it gets. I wouldnt be pointing fingers with your track record.

[JayJohnstone]

Buffalo is NOT New York. In fact, nothing north of Westchester deserves to part of New York, it should be a separate state. New York is the city and Long Island, and thats that! :)There is the State of New York and there is the City of New York.
Buffalo and Long island are part of the State of New York.
Manhattan, Bronx, Brooklyn, Queens, Staten Island are the City of New York.

[Baseball Guru]

Its the same in Florida, where i live now, they should draw a line across the state at the northern tip of Tampa thru Orlando to Daytona, and everything from those cities south is Florida, and everything north should be a different state. Just like in New York, the northern parts of these states are hicks from the sticks compared to the southern part. :)


lol.. Good point! What part of Florida you in? I live in Kissimmee (5 mins from whee the Astros play ST and about 15 mins from the Braves ST facility...

[dabigyankeeman]

lol.. Good point! What part of Florida you in? I live in Kissimmee (5 mins from whee the Astros play ST and about 15 mins from the Braves ST facility...


I am inbetween Miami and Ft Lauderdale, not too far from Dolphin Stadium.