Jesse Tannehill

[Cowtipper]

Over 15 years in the big leagues, Jesse Tannehill posted a 197-116 career record with a 2.79 ERA. A six time 20 game winner, Tannehill led the league in ERA in 1901 with a 2.18 mark, and he came in third in 1902 when he posted a 1.95 ERA. He was in the top 10 in wins every year from 1898 to 1905, except for 1901 and 1903. His .629 winning percentage is 52nd all-time.

Tannehill had great control, as he finished with a career BB/9IP ratio of 1.56 - 27th all-time.

He is statistically similar to one Hall of Famer - Jack Chesbro.

So, should Jesse Tannehill be in the Hall of Fame?

[jjpm74]

I think he's good enough to be there. Unfortunately, his superficial numbers (wins, specifically) probably put him under the radar with most voters so I voted maybe for him.

[Paul Wendt]

Tannehill played 87 games (20%) in the outfield and pinch-hit about 60 times.
He finished 20 points below league-average onbase and 16 points below league-average slugging, OPS+ 89.

#1-2-4 on his most similar pitchers list are his 1900-1902 teammates Philippe, Chesbro, and Leever. #3 Babe Adams came along in time for Phillippe and Leever but Tanne and Chesbro were gone.

ops+ npg (non-pitcher games)
89 148 Tannehill
44 __1 Chesbro
36 __5 Phillippe
36 __1 Leever

[leecemark]

--Playing at a time when a much larger part of run prevention was the defense it is not surprising that teammates look very similar. It also suggest that maybe we should be looking more at th eguys behind them. Th emore I think about this the better I like Tommy Leach for the Halll. Moreso than any of the Pirate pitchers.

[STLCards2]

I have recently completed a top 200 pitchers list, and Tanehill is currently ranked #127. Certainly a great pitcher, but not a HOFer. In case you are curious (which you probably aren't), I have:

Leever: #109
Phillippe:#123
Chesbro: #147

[jjpm74]

I have recently completed a top 200 pitchers list, and Tanehill is currently ranked #127. Certainly a great pitcher, but not a HOFer. In case you are curious (which you probably aren't), I have:

Leever: #109
Phillippe:#123
Chesbro: #147

I'd be very interested in your top 200 list. What criteria did you use to determine your rankings?

[Paul Wendt]

--Playing at a time when a much larger part of run prevention was the defense it is not surprising that teammates look very similar.

very similar, perhaps, but this degree of similarity in lifetime statistics is a spectacular fluke.
By the way, Phillippe and Leever are each other's most similar pitchers and batters.


It also suggest that maybe we should be looking more at the guys behind them. The more I think about this the better I like Tommy Leach for the Halll.

Do it. Pull the trigger.

I didn't mention Ed Doheny, the fifth starting pitcher on the threepeat champions (1901-03), because the point was a curiosity re lifetime similarity scores. But take a look. And see Lefty Leifield and Howie Camnitz later in the decade. Same as in Chicago, the pitchers in pitchers in Pittsburgh were all above average.

[STLCards2]

I'd be very interested in your top 200 list. What criteria did you use to determine your rankings?

I focused a lot on IP (I try to adjust IP for era) and ERA+, trying to adjust mentaly for how much the pitcher was helped by his defense. I factored in offensive ability, and postseason play, and used peak seasons if IP/ERA+ ratios were very close. I do look at era quality, and do factor in lost time for war service.

I don't look at peropherals too much when looking at a guy's career because I feel that given a long enough career and factoring in the defense behind him already, a guy's ERA+ will be very close to his ability-or in other words, he did save those runs.

Of course, the list is somewhat subjective as I have a full-time job that requires many more than 40 hours a week and a wife, so I don't wish to create an exact legalistic formula and run it for hundreds of pitchers. There are too many exceptions to the rules for such rigid lists like that anyway.

I will send you a private message with the list. Acctualy, I will just add it here.

[STLCards2]

Here it is:

1.Walter Johnson
2.Cy Young
3. Lefty Grove
4. Pete Alexander
5. Greg Maddux
6. Randy Johnson
7. Christy Mathewson
8. Tom Seaver
9. Warren Spahn
10.Roger Clemens
11.Pedro Martinez
12.Kid Nichols
13. Carl Hubbell
14. Bob Feller
15. Bob Gibson
16. Steve Carlton
17. Gaylord Perry
18. Eddie Plank
19. John Clarkson
20. Phil Niekro
21. Ed Walsh
22. Bert Blyleven
23. Mordecai Brown
24. Juan Marichal
25. Sandy Koufax
26. Tim Keefe
27. Nolan Ryan
28. Robin Roberts
29. Whitey Ford
30. Tom Glavine
31. Fergie Jenkins
32. Curt Schilling
33. Jim Palmer
34. Rube Waddell
35. John Smoltz
36. Mariano Rivera*
37. Hoyt Wilhelm*
38. Amos Rusie
39. Dennis Eckersley*
40. Dazzy Vance
41. Hal Newhouser
42. Stan Coveleski
43. Mike Mussina
44. Ted Lyons
45. Addie Joss
47. Charles Radbourn
48. Don Sutton
49. Red Ruffing
50. Joe McGinnity
51. Eppa Rixey
52. Don Drysdale
53. Jim Bunning
54. Wes Ferrell
55. Vic Willis
56. Red Faber
57. Kevin Brown
58. Trevor Hoffman*
59. Bob Lemon
60. Tony Mullane
61. Eddie Cicotte
62. Tommy Bridges
63. Clark Griffith
64. Dan Quisenberry *
65. Billy Pierce
66. Luis Tiant
67. Early Wynn
68. Rollie Fingers *
69. Bruce Sutter *
70. Tommy John
71. Carl Mays
72. Pud Galvin
73. Dizzy Dean
74. Lefty Gomez
75. Bret Saberhagen
76. Urban Shocker
77. Lee Smith*
78. Dave Stieb
79. Dutch Leonard
80. Jim McCormick
81. David Cone
82. Wilbur Cooper
83. Bucky Walters
84. Rick Reushel
85. Mickey Welch
86. John Franco *
87. Dolph Luque
88. Kevin Appier
89. Lon Warneke
90. Hippo Vaughn
91. Babe Adams
92. Johan Santana
93. Roy Oswalt
94. Jack Quinn
95. Jim Kaat
96. Dizzy Trout
97. Jerry Koosman
98. Burleigh Grimes
99. Waite Hoyt
100. Silver King
101. Billy Wagner *
102. Don Newcombe
103. Virgil Trucks
104. Mel Harder
105. Eddie Rommel
106. Bobby Mathews
107. Noodles Hahn
108. Orel Hershiser
109. Sam Leever
110. Ed Reulbach
111. Harry Brecheen
112. Ron Guidry
113. Sparky Lyle *
114. Jimmy Key
115. Chuck Finley
116. Al Spalding
117. Frank Tanana
118. Larry Jackson
119. Jack Powell
120. Jack Morris
121. Catfish Hunter
122. Charlie Buffington
123. Deacon Phillippe
124. Sal Maglie
125. Steve Rogers
126. Andy Pettitte
127. Jesse Tannehill
128. Mort Cooper
129. Tommy Bond
130. Frank Viola
131. David Wells
132. Vida Blue
133. Kent Tekulve *
134. Bob Shawky
135. Tim Hudson
136. Dwight Gooden
137. Mickey Lolich
138. Mel Parnell
139. Larry French
140. Bob Caruthers
141. Curt Simmons
142. Paul Derringer
143. Roy Face *
144. Kenny Rogers
145. John Hiller *
146. Mark Buerhle
147. Jack Chesbro
148. Milt Pappas
149. Joe Wood
150. Roy Halladay
151. Claude Passeau
152. Chief Bender
153. Jack Stivetts
154. Charlie Hough
155. Tom Henke *
156. John Wetteland *
157. Will White
158. Jamie Moyer
159. Doc White
160. Andy Messersmith
161. Mike Marshall *
162. Thornton Lee
163. Sadie McMahon
164. Nap Rucker
165. Firpo Marbury*
166. Dean Chance
167. Bill Hutchinson
168. Ed Morris
169. Ed Lopat
170. Jose Rijo
171. Bobby Shantz
172. Wilbur Wood
173. Sam McDowell
174. Mike Garcia
175. Bob Friend
176. Charlie Root
177. Bobo Newsome
178. Larry Corcoran
179. Herb Pennock
180. Jeff Pfeffer
181. Allie Reynolds
182. Spud Chandler
183. Troy Percival*
184. Jesse Haines
185. Jeff Reardon *
186. Jim Perry
187. Jeff Montgomery *
188. Candy Cummings
189. Freddie Fitzsimmons
190. Dennis Martinez
191. John Candelaria
192. John Ward
193. Mel Stottlemyre
194. Charlie Root
195. Johnny Antonelli
196. Slim Sallee
197. Frank Lary
198. Murray Dickson
199. Rube Marquard
200. Al Leiter

[Freakshow]

So, should Jesse Tannehill be in the Hall of Fame?
The Ultimate Quest project suggests he should not. He is barely among the top 10 candidates from his decade, the 1900's:

Jimmy Sheckard 82%
Tommy Leach 78%
Roy Thomas 73%
Cy Seymour 52%
Mike Donlin 51%
Fielder Jones 47%
Harry Davis 36%
Bill Dinneen 25%
Johnny Kling 22%
Ginger Beaumont 21%
Sam Leever 21%
Jesse Tannehill 21%

[leecemark]

very similar, perhaps, but this degree of similarity in lifetime statistics is a spectacular fluke.
By the way, Phillippe and Leever are each other's most similar pitchers and batters.



Do it. Pull the trigger.

I didn't mention Ed Doheny, the fifth starting pitcher on the threepeat champions (1901-03), because the point was a curiosity re lifetime similarity scores. But take a look. And see Lefty Leifield and Howie Camnitz later in the decade. Same as in Chicago, the pitchers in pitchers in Pittsburgh were all above average.

--The trigger is pulled. Leach has been added to my BBFHoF ballot.

[KCGHOST]

Not that he was a good pitcher, but do we need any more Haines and Benders in the HoF??

[Fuzzy Bear]

Not that he was a good pitcher, but do we need any more Haines and Benders in the HoF??


Not really.

[Fuzzy Bear]

Deacon Philippe has a better case. Arguably, so does Sam Leever.

[Cougar]

--Playing at a time when a much larger part of run prevention was the defense it is not surprising that teammates look very similar. It also suggest that maybe we should be looking more at th eguys behind them. Th emore I think about this the better I like Tommy Leach for the Halll. Moreso than any of the Pirate pitchers.

That's a good point!

[henrich]

Tannehill scores at 36th within his era for me coming in at 7320 in the H-Factor. I have Chesbro in at 7690, but I believe Chesbro is a mistake. Joss is also in at 8146 and Griffith is in at 6450 but I believe these are the weaker portion of the Hall and Joss shouldn't even qualify. After these mistakes the lowest one in at this era that has credibility is McGinnity at 9298.

[Paul Wendt]

Leever and Phillippe finished with ERA+ 123 and 120, better than Jesse Tannehill 114. There are at least three important points in Tannehill's favor. First he was a regular pitcher for four full seasons during the 12- and 8-team NL monopoly, about 40% of his career. Compare two full seasons for Leever and Phillippe, about 20% of their careers. Second, he was a very good batter (OPS+ 89, probably close to average for C-3B-SS). Leever and Phillippe, both OPS+ 36, were each other's most similar batters! Third, Tannehill played a couple early seasons in Pittsburgh and a couple late seasons in Boston when he did not enjoy the great fielding support of the 19-aughts Pirates.