What's going on here- Front Leg

[cosmo34]

Not sure how to correctly describe this, but it's something I've noticed in a few hitters. I'll just give a few picture examples.
http://www.gasolinealleyantiques.com/sports/baseball/images/mariners/00edgar.JPG

http://hittingillustrated.com/library/Arod5.gif

Those two are kind of hard to see exactly what I'm talking about, but they were the best that I could find. If someone could post the GIF of Braun in the AFL (cough*Connor*cough) it shows a a full swing featuring what I'm describing.

Compare the first two to this
http://z.about.com/d/baseball/1/7/o/5/-/-/rockies17.jpg



Forgive my crude description. It seems that the front leg past the knee is bent towards the pitcher 20-35 or so degrees, rather than simply continuing the near straight line down, like Holliday (and alot more hitters do, compared to the # of those do it like Braun, Edgar, and Arod.)

Why are they doing this? To me it seems to help widen their balance point at their feet, while keeping their balance point at the knees and hips closer together. Upon striding, it would shorten the length of their actual stride, but have the point of weight transfer be longer.

Anyone see what I'm talking about? I can try and give a better description if needed.

[Go Cardinals]

This one?

http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa173/xvue84/hitting%20clips/th_braun1small.gif

[Go Cardinals]

Look where Benji's foot is prior to stride...

[cosmo34]

This one?

http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa173/xvue84/hitting%20clips/th_braun1small.gif


Yup, that one.

Muchas gracias.

Anyone see what I'm talking about?

[Go Cardinals]

Lau jr describes this technique:

He says that there are ways to load. You can start 50 50 and go back then forward w/ stride, you can go 60-40, etc. He says that the most important "
thing to remember is that you have to go back first.

Some people start with this going back action... IE: Larry Walker. Some people go back as they stride, IE: Soriano or David ortiz. Then you have people who do this action. It's hard to describe. Lau said that it is complicated.
I can't put words to it, but if I had to I would say pinch. For some reason thats what I think of...

Here are some more pictures and videos of what I am describing:

They all have different variations of what I described above...

http://www.hittingillustrated.com/library/Soriano2.gif

http://www.hittingillustrated.com/library/DOrtiz13.gifhttp://hittingillustrated.com/library/DOrtiz12.gif

http://www.teachersbilliards.com/MHolliday2.gif

http://hittingillustrated.com/library/Ankiel2.gif

[Go Cardinals]

See what I'm talking about?

[Go Cardinals]

Check this one out too:

http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa173/xvue84/hitting%20clips/th_delwynyoung1.gif (http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa173/xvue84/hitting%20clips/delwynyoung1.gif)

Just found it...

[Mark H]

Cosmo,

The late Jim Dixon covered this in his seminal work "The Exceptional Athlete". I'm sure your local library can find it for you. Jim's son still has copies available. You could go to Nyman's site and do a search for "pelvic loading" as well but I suggest keeping your head down and mouth shut while on his site. Briefly, it preloads the pelvis leading into powerful pelvic rotation/hips lead rotation. For more understanding I suggest Englishbey's site.

[cosmo34]

Connor- Pelvic loading?

It has to be a weight distribution thing, but I'm looking more of the specifics of why the "angle" comes into play. I know guys go back to go forward, and am a big fan of it.

[cosmo34]

Cosmo,

The late Jim Dixon covered this in his seminal work "The Exceptional Athlete". I'm sure your local library can find it for you. Jim's son still has copies available. You could go to Nyman's site and do a search for "pelvic loading" as well but I suggest keeping your head down and mouth shut while on his site. Briefly, it preloads the pelvis leading into powerful pelvic rotation/hips lead rotation. For more understanding I suggest Englishbey's site.


Hmmmm. Seems Connor and me are discussing the same thing, though done in different ways.

[Go Cardinals]

No not pelvic loading... Watch Molina he doesn't do that. He starts that way, its not an action.

Weight is loaded on the inside of the foot...

[Mark H]

Perhaps I'm not understanding the nature of the original question because I don't follow your comment. Are we talking about the front knee turning in with the lower leg thus angled out toward the pitcher or something else?

[Go Cardinals]

Isn't this pelvic loading?

http://imageevent.com/siggy/hitting/olympic?p=0&n=1&m=24&c=4&l=0&w=4&s=0&z=9

[cosmo34]

Perhaps I'm not understanding the nature of the original question because I don't follow your comment. Are we talking about the front knee turning in with the lower leg thus angled out toward the pitcher or something else?

Something else. I'm not talking about the physical act of pelvic loading or "hip cock" during the load of the swing. I'm talking purely, as the hitter is in his stance before any action has taken place. The front leg from knee down is angled forward to some degree rather than continuing in a straight or near straight line from hip to foot.

If you stop the Arod and Braun clip before any action takes place, you can see the front leg angle, just like Edgar has. I'm wondering about the reasons for this.

Connor- I was wrong on what you saw. I'm not sure what you see actually.
I see what you were saying about Molina, with the weight on the inside of the foot, but not so much in the other clips.

[Go Cardinals]

Something else. I'm not talking about the physical act of pelvic loading or "hip cock" during the load of the swing. I'm talking purely, as the hitter is in his stance before any action has taken place. The front leg from knee down is angled forward to some degree rather than continuing in a straight or near straight line from hip to foot.

If you stop the Arod and Braun clip before any action takes place, you can see the front leg angle, just like Edgar has. I'm wondering about the reasons for this.

Connor- I was wrong on what you saw. I'm not sure what you see actually.
I see what you were saying about Molina, with the weight on the inside of the foot, but not so much in the other clips.

Thats what they are doing... I'll get a clip here in a sec... the place where I get all my clips isn't loading...

[Mark H]

Isn't this pelvic loading?

http://imageevent.com/siggy/hitting/olympic?p=0&n=1&m=24&c=4&l=0&w=4&s=0&z=9

A non standard form. Here's a little better example. http://imageevent.com/siggy/hitting/olympic?p=9&n=1&m=24&c=4&l=0&w=4&s=0&z=9



#$%^ mlb for making Siggy take the mlb clips down. The example I'd like to use was on there.

[Mark H]

Something else. I'm not talking about the physical act of pelvic loading or "hip cock" during the load of the swing. I'm talking purely, as the hitter is in his stance before any action has taken place. The front leg from knee down is angled forward to some degree rather than continuing in a straight or near straight line from hip to foot.

If you stop the Arod and Braun clip before any action takes place, you can see the front leg angle, just like Edgar has. I'm wondering about the reasons for this.
.

I could offer at least a couple of thoughts on this but it's not important. Kind of like asking why does Counsell hold his bat way up in the air before the pitch. Because he wants to, because he feels it puts him where he wants to be at launch, etc. Maybe's said. If so, I'd find it moderately interesting but I'm not going to start teaching it.

[paul5150]

I think what your asking about is just an illusion from having an open stance. It looks the same in my stance also and i am a little bit open.

[virg]

It's the "start-back" stance.
In a 50-50 stance the weight is shifted back, and then forward with a stride.
In start-back the weight is already back, with no need to time a back shift. About all it takes is the forward moves.

[Go Cardinals]

It's the "start-back" stance.
In a 50-50 stance the weight is shifted back, and then forward with a stride.
In start-back the weight is already back, with no need to time a back shift. About all it takes is the forward moves.

You pretty much nailed that :highfive:

[Go Cardinals]

Just watch Juan Gonzalez:
http://www.hittingillustrated.com/images/JuanGonzalez2.mov

[cosmo34]

I think what your asking about is just an illusion from having an open stance. It looks the same in my stance also and i am a little bit open.

No, the 3 players shown are not open. Edgar is even slightly closed.

It's the "start-back" stance.
In a 50-50 stance the weight is shifted back, and then forward with a stride.
In start-back the weight is already back, with no need to time a back shift. About all it takes is the forward moves.

Interesting.