Steroids: an issue in the future?

[gojays]

Hypothetical question: Say, 50 or 100 years from now, the PED problem has disappeared for one reason or another. How do you think those generations will see the players of today?

It's always a possibility that as the time goes on, people will start to forget about how bad the problem was. Fans who weren't alive in the current era may not feel as strongly about the issue. For most people, if they haven't experienced something, they won't see it as badly as someone who did.

There were a lot more ways to cheat back in the 1890s, with only one umpire and no TV cameras(as proved by John McGraw), but people seem to have forgiven players for that. Pitchers like Gaylord Perry and Whitey Ford were known for scuffing or doctoring the ball, but they're not looked down upon today.

I'm not trying to detract anything from the steroid issue, but it's certainly possible that as time goes on, it will become less of one. What do you think?

Also, I wasn't exactly sure where to put this thread, so if it's in the wrong place, please correct it. Thanks!

[SamtheBravesFan]

It's a simple fact that over time, people tend to forget about how henious (or not henious) some things are (or were). The issue of PEDs in baseball will be no different.

[gojays]

True, but the steroid problem seems like a bigger and longer-lasting problem than anything so far in baseball. I was just wondering, is it possible that the players will be forgiven, even partly? Or will they always be known as the juicers?

[SamtheBravesFan]

True, but the steroid problem seems like a bigger and longer-lasting problem than anything so far in baseball. I was just wondering, is it possible that the players will be forgiven, even partly? Or will they always be known as the juicers?

They'll be forgiven, because society usually forgets. That's how I think it usually happens.

[gojays]

I'm not sure forgiving is the same as forgetting.

[bigtime39]

1) PEDs did not magically appear in 1998. They've been around in one form or another for decades.
2) What players were using five years ago is laughably crude by today's standards. Ditto today's stuff five years from now.
3) Nobody cares about massive PED use in football. They get up in arms about it in baseball because people cling to the fantasy that professional baseball is a game played by "normal people" rather than by a very, very small sliver of the population. It's a fantasy, just like it's a fantasy that the Yankee$ didn't use their off-the-field economic muscle to buy the bulk of their vaunted 26 Worlds Champion$hips.
4) Americans tend to have their heads up their a**es about PEDs, just like they do about money.

[SHOELESSJOE3]

1) PEDs did not magically appear in 1998. They've been around in one form or another for decades.
2) What players were using five years ago is laughably crude by today's standards. Ditto today's stuff five years from now.
3) Nobody cares about massive PED use in football. They get up in arms about it in baseball because people cling to the fantasy that professional baseball is a game played by "normal people" rather than by a very, very small sliver of the population. It's a fantasy, just like it's a fantasy that the Yankee$ didn't use their off-the-field economic muscle to buy the bulk of their vaunted 26 Worlds Champion$hips.
4) Americans tend to have their heads up their a**es about PEDs, just like they do about money.


Fantasy has nothing to do with it. You can debate my following statement but who can deny that it is true.

Baseball reveres its numbers, it's records like no other sport. Like it or don't like it, it's the truth and thats why rule breaking is a bigger issue in baseball.

How many people on the street, luke warm fans know who holds the record in football for rushing/receiving touchdowns in a season, a career. What quarterback threw the most in a season a career, what quarterback has the best percentage passing season or career. Sure there are some who know but the number 60, 714, 755 were known to many more. Look at the public interest when Mac was chasing 61 and Barry chasing 755.

Like it or not, thats the story baseball takes it's records more to heart than any other sport. That is why rule breaking is looked down more in baseball, fair or not it's a fact.

[SHOELESSJOE3]

Hypothetical It's always a possibility that as the time goes on, people will start to forget about how bad the problem was. Fans who weren't alive in the current era may not feel as strongly about the issue. For most people, if they haven't experienced something, they won't see it as badly as someone who did.

Pitchers like Gaylord Perry and Whitey Ford were known for scuffing or doctoring the ball, but they're not looked down upon today.I'm not trying to detract anything from the steroid issue, but it's certainly possible that as time goes on, it will become less of one. What do you think?

Also, I wasn't exactly sure where to put this thread, so if it's in the wrong place, please correct it. Thanks!

Fair or not the public looks down more on the use of chemicals to enhance performance more than pitchers throwing illegal pitches. Not here to defend and type of rule breaking. By the way steroids are banned in almost all sports baseball is not alone.

It wont be forgotten just as easily as some pitchers throwing some "wet ones" because of all the record breaking that took place in the late 1990s. The cloud that hangs over Barry's head and some others will not just go away. They have already named this time period the steroid era.

[SHOELESSJOE3]

1) PEDs did not magically appear in 1998. They've been around in one form or another for decades.
2) What players were using five years ago is laughably crude by today's standards. Ditto today's stuff five years from now.
3) Nobody cares about massive PED use in football. They get up in arms about it in baseball because people cling to the fantasy that professional baseball is a game played by "normal people" rather than by a very, very small sliver of the population. It's a fantasy, just like it's a fantasy that the Yankee$ didn't use their off-the-field economic muscle to buy the bulk of their vaunted 26 Worlds Champion$hips.4) Americans tend to have their heads up their a**es about PEDs, just like they do about money.

Stop crying the blues, your killing me. Do some research, going back to 1920 there were other teams with lots of money, Bosox for one example. Are the Yankees to blame for some other owners with short arms and deep pockets who don't want to spend.

The Yankees in New York in the 1900s were the new kids on the block. There was also the Dodgers and the Giants who by the way owned NY back then. They had the advantage of playing in the big city, where are they now.

Certainly not to deny Yankee finance helped but they earned a good deal of it by early success in the 1920s when Harry Frazee made the blunder of all blunders, selling his best hitter Babe Ruth to NY.

BTW John McGraw of the Giants had the first shot at Lou Gehrig and blew that deal.

A number of teams scouted Joe Dimaggio before the Yanks did. They were scared off when Joe suffered a serious knee injury in the minor league. The Yanks took a shot and it paid off.

Phil Rizzuto, sent packing by other teams, he was too small.

Yogi Berra, the Pirates would not even give him a 500 dollar bonus to sign up. He was too slow, clumsy.

Whitey Ford, too small, turned away by some teams.


Mickey Mantle scouted by both St. Louis teams..before the Yanks. St. Louis scout Runt Marr told Mick he would call him at his home, never did.

Stop crying the Yanks weren't handed everthing, they earned some of it. All your complaining wont take down all those flags fying over Yankee Stadium.

[brewcrew82]

It's a simple fact that over time, people tend to forget about how henious (or not henious) some things are (or were). The issue of PEDs in baseball will be no different.

An example of this would be the cocaine problem ballplayers faced in the '80's. It's almost never mentioned these days though it was a big enough problem in its time.

[SHOELESSJOE3]

An example of this would be the cocaine problem ballplayers faced in the '80's. It's almost never mentioned these days though it was a big enough problem in its time.

I don't think it's the same. Cocaine was a problem but steroids is viewed as a means to enhance, boost performance. To gain an edge on the other competition.

I don't remember the cocaine problem being even close to the uproar over steroid use.

May I remind it's not only baseball that has a ban on steroids, most other sports also do the same.

Cocaine use a problem but steroids seen a form of cheating.

[mtortolero]

The use of creatine is still allowed being a natural perfomance enhancer without secondary effects consumed under control and at the end can increase until 12% of muscular mass.
In 1998, when all the roids issue was not an scandal, McGwire declared he used Creatine and Androstenedione (which was legal to that year). In fact Sosa declared he took only creatine.
We need to draw a clear line between what substances are PED and all others diet supplements an athlete may use. Until that day we will have this permanent buzz in our ears.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/mlb/news/1998/08/22/mcgwire_supplement/

[Urbanshocker13]

1) PEDs did not magically appear in 1998. They've been around in one form or another for decades.
2) What players were using five years ago is laughably crude by today's standards. Ditto today's stuff five years from now.
3) Nobody cares about massive PED use in football. They get up in arms about it in baseball because people cling to the fantasy that professional baseball is a game played by "normal people" rather than by a very, very small sliver of the population. It's a fantasy, just like it's a fantasy that the Yankee$ didn't use their off-the-field economic muscle to buy the bulk of their vaunted 26 Worlds Champion$hips.
4) Americans tend to have their heads up their a**es about PEDs, just like they do about money.

Can you have one post where you don't say that!? Come on' everyone one has heard that argument, you don't have to say it ALL THE TIME! That argument has major problems, if that was true the Yankees would have won championships throughout the 80's and early 90's when george spent countless amounts of cash on stupid free agent deals! Shoeless is totally correct with his post, just ask any Yankee fan( not all of us have cloven hoofs and breath fire) the biggest problem we have with the Yanks Front Office is how they have sold out the farm system for over the hill veterens and overpaid for free agents! It dosen't really matter. we get it, you hate the Yankees and you think they buy championships. Fine! Just stop saying it EVERY TIME YOU POST!

[White Knight]

Hypothetical question: Say, 50 or 100 years from now, the PED problem has disappeared for one reason or another. How do you think those generations will see the players of today?

It's always a possibility that as the time goes on, people will start to forget about how bad the problem was. Fans who weren't alive in the current era may not feel as strongly about the issue. For most people, if they haven't experienced something, they won't see it as badly as someone who did.

There were a lot more ways to cheat back in the 1890s, with only one umpire and no TV cameras(as proved by John McGraw), but people seem to have forgiven players for that. Pitchers like Gaylord Perry and Whitey Ford were known for scuffing or doctoring the ball, but they're not looked down upon today.

I'm not trying to detract anything from the steroid issue, but it's certainly possible that as time goes on, it will become less of one. What do you think?

Also, I wasn't exactly sure where to put this thread, so if it's in the wrong place, please correct it. Thanks!

I don't know if you realize it, but by that time, someone will invent something that has just as good (or possibly better) results as PED's, but 100% safe. Because of this, it will be over-the-counter, and therefor legal in sports. Then what? Everyone will be on it, except a few older people who want to stay "natural."

[White Knight]

I don't think it's the same. Cocaine was a problem but steroids is viewed as a means to enhance, boost performance. To gain an edge on the other competition.

What the hell is wrong with trying to enhance performance or gain an edge? The gym room and a healthy diet does that too, but no one is tryinmg to ban that.

[White Knight]

The use of creatine is still allowed being a natural perfomance enhancer without secondary effects consumed under control and at the end can increase until 12% of muscular mass.
In 1998, when all the roids issue was not an scandal, McGwire declared he used Creatine and Androstenedione (which was legal to that year). In fact Sosa declared he took only creatine.
We need to draw a clear line between what substances are PED and all others diet supplements an athlete may use. Until that day we will have this permanent buzz in our ears.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/mlb/news/1998/08/22/mcgwire_supplement/

I read that entire article. I miss Big Mac so much, it almost brought a tear to my eye. :(

[bigtime39]

Can you have one post where you don't say that!? Come on' everyone one has heard that argument, you don't have to say it ALL THE TIME! That argument has major problems, if that was true the Yankees would have won championships throughout the 80's and early 90's when george spent countless amounts of cash on stupid free agent deals! Shoeless is totally correct with his post, just ask any Yankee fan( not all of us have cloven hoofs and breath fire) the biggest problem we have with the Yanks Front Office is how they have sold out the farm system for over the hill veterens and overpaid for free agents! It dosen't really matter. we get it, you hate the Yankees and you think they buy championships. Fine! Just stop saying it EVERY TIME YOU POST!

Thanks for making my point for me. Since the 20s, what are the two "dry" periods for the Yankee$? CBS, and the Madness of King George. Why are those two periods "dry"? Because Yankee$ ownership failed to make use of their massive advantage in resources, or used those resources badly.
To get after my team's lame-o owner, Peter Angelos proved that you can't win in 1998 by purchasing the 1993 All-Star team. I get that payroll doesn't always equate to being the last guy standing. But it sure as hell equates to making it to the final eight...almost every year.
We now return you to that other fantasy conversation...that PEDs are magically going to disappear from baseball...already in progress.

[SHOELESSJOE3]

What the hell is wrong with trying to enhance performance or gain an edge? The gym room and a healthy diet does that too, but no one is tryinmg to ban that.

I don't see the comparison. You compare physical training and a good diet to use of drugs. Two different worlds. Some putting up a big stink, think steroid use is OK in baseball. May I remind..............almost all major sports, individual and team ban steroid use......are they all out of line.