PDA

View Full Version : Jim Bunning's most similar: Who deserves induction?


Cowtipper
02-03-2008, 11:42 AM
Of all the players most statistically similar to Jim Bunning, these players are not in the Hall of Fame:

Mickey Lolich
Luis Tiant
Rick Reuschel
Jerry Koosman
Jim Perry
Hooks Dauss
Jerry Reuss
Billy Pierce

Which, if any of these guys, deserve induction into the Hall of Fame?

Here are some notable achievements and statistically similar Hall of Famers for each, courtesy of Baseball-Reference.com:

Lolich:

3-time AL All-Star (1969, 1971 & 1972)
1968 World Series MVP
AL Wins Leader (1971)
AL Innings Pitched Leader (1971)
AL Strikeouts Leader (1971)
AL Complete Games Leader (1971)
AL Shutouts Leader (1967)
15 Wins Seasons: 8 (1964, 1965, 1968, 1969 & 1971-1974)
20 Wins Seasons: 2 (1971 & 1972)
25 Wins Seasons: 1 (1971)
200 Innings Pitched Seasons: 12 (1964-1975)
300 Innings Pitched Seasons: 4 (1971-1974)
200 Strikeouts Seasons: 7 (1965 & 1969-1974)
300 Strikeouts Seasons: 1 (1971)
Won a World Series with the Detroit Tigers in 1968

Statistically similar Hall of Famers: Jim Bunning

Tiant:

3-time AL All-Star (1968, 1974 & 1976)
1972 AL Comeback Player of the Year Award
2-time AL ERA Leader (1968 & 1972)
3-time AL Shutouts Leader (1966, 1968 & 1974)
15 Wins Seasons: 6 (1968 & 1972-1976)
20 Wins Seasons: 4 (1968, 1973, 1974 & 1976)
200 Innings Pitched Seasons: 8 (1967-1969, 1973-1976 & 1978)
300 Innings Pitched Seasons: 1 (1974)
200 Strikeouts Seasons: 3 (1967, 1968 & 1973)

Statistically similar Hall of Famers: Catfish Hunter, Jim Bunning, Don Drysdale

Reuschel:

3-time NL All-Star (1977, 1987 & 1989)
2-time NL Gold Glove Winner (1985 & 1987)
1985 NL Comeback Player of the Year Award
NL Complete Games Leader (1987)
NL Shutouts Leader (1987)
15 Win Seasons: 4 (1977, 1979, 1988 & 1989)
20 Win Seasons: 1 (1977)
200 Innings Pitched Seasons: 12 (1973-1980 & 1986-1989)

Statistically similar Hall of Famers: Jim Bunning, Catfish Hunter

Koosman:

1968 Topps All-Star Rookie Team
2-time NL All-Star (1968 & 1969)
15 Wins Seasons: 6 (1968, 1969, 1974, 1976, 1979 & 1980)
20 Wins Seasons: 2 (1976 & 1979)
200 Innings Pitched Seasons: 12 (1968-1970, 1973-1980 & 1984)
200 Strikeouts Seasons: 1 (1976)
Won a World Series with the New York Mets in 1969

Statistically similar Hall of Famers: Jim Bunning

Perry:

1959 Topps All-Star Rookie Team
3-time AL All-Star (1961, 1970 & 1971)
AL Cy Young Award Winner (1970)
2-time AL Wins Leader (1960 & 1970)
AL Shutouts Leader (1960)
15 Wins Seasons: 5 (1960, 1969-1971 & 1974)
20 Wins Seasons: 2 (1969 & 1970)
200 Innings Pitched Seasons: 8 (1960, 1961 & 1969-1974)

Statistically similar Hall of Famers: Catfish Hunter

Dauss:

AL Saves Leader (1914)
15 Wins Seasons: 7 (1914-1917, 1919, 1923 & 1925)
20 Wins Seasons: 3 (1915, 1919 & 1923)
200 Innings Pitched Seasons: 12 (1913-1923 & 1925)
300 Innings Pitched Seasons: 3 (1914-1915 & 1923)

Statistically similar Hall of Famers: Waite Hoyt, Jesse Haines

Reuss:

2-time NL All-Star (1975 & 1980)
1980 NL Comeback Player of the Year Award
NL Shutouts Leader (1980)
15 Wins Seasons: 5 (1973-1975, 1980 & 1982)
200 Innings Pitched Seasons: 10 (1971, 1973-1977, 1980, 1982, 1983 & 1985)
Won a World Series with the Los Angeles Dodgers in 1981

Statistically similar Hall of Famers: None

Pierce:

7-time AL All-Star (1953, 1955-1959 & 1961)
AL ERA Leader (1955)
AL Wins Leader (1957)
AL Strikeouts Leader (1953)
3-time AL Complete Games Leader (1956-1958)
15 Wins Seasons: 8 (1951-1953, 1955-1958 & 1962)
20 Wins Seasons: 2 (1956 & 1957)
200 Innings Pitched Seasons: 9 (1950-1953 & 1955-1959)
Wins leader: 20 (1956, '57)
ERA leader: 1.97 (1955)
Innings leader: 276 1/3 (1956)
Strikeouts leader: 192 (1956)
WHIP leader: 1.02 (1964)
Saves leader: 8 (1963)

Statistically similar Hall of Famers: Hal Newhouser, Catfish Hunter

Paul Wendt
02-03-2008, 12:39 PM
How do you find the players who are better than all of their most similar players?

Fuzzy Bear
02-03-2008, 09:09 PM
I consider Tiant to be superior to Bunning.

I'd give the HOF nod to Tiant. I also checked Pierce; some folks around here have gotten me to come around on that one.

Los Bravos
02-04-2008, 02:27 AM
I consider Tiant to be superior to Bunning. I'd give the HOF nod to Tiant.Agreed, on both counts.

The Commissioner
02-04-2008, 03:20 PM
The only definite I see on that list is Luis Tiant. Pierce wouldn't be a bad choice either. I could live with Lolich, but he doesn't have as much of a H.O.F. case as Tiant.

Paul Wendt
02-04-2008, 04:14 PM
Bunning is the only definite. :)
Bunning's raw playing record is a little better than Tiant's and his rank among contemporaries is a lot better than Luie's. The last column in this table gives the number of pitchers elected to the Hall of Fame with major league careers beginning in the decade (first three digits of date). Probably you can all figure out the entire table with that hint.
Cooperstown Hall of Fame players (228)
did not play in the majors, 25
major league debut dates, 202
decade sum annual nons pitchers (58)
1870s 6 : -110010021 : 5 1 not including Ward
1880s 14 : 5020110041 : 9 5
1890s 20 : 4210211333 : 12 8
1900s 16 : 1132111222 : 8 8
1910s 22 : 1151361121 : 18 4
1920s 31 : 2235634132 : 27 4
1930s 17 : 4220003123 : 13 4
1940s 19 : 1311012541 : 15 4 including Paige
1950s 21 : 1222244013 : 15 6
1960s 20 : 1221242411 : 9 11
1970s 11 : 0022211120 : 8 3 Gossage, Eckersley, Sutter
1980s 5 : 0220100000 : 5 0
1990s :
(Yes, that's three pitchers with debuts since 1969, all relievers. Have I made some clerical error?)

For that reason I would rank Reuschel ahead of Tiant, too, for playing achievements. I like Luis Tiant and he is one of baseball's great characters; blech Reuschel; don't know Pierce. But it's only by usual Hall of Fame arguments, making the Hall itself a history museum or building the best possible tourist attraction in Cooperstown, that Tiant may rank first.

So I would rank Tiant fourth. Grossly, on the other hand,
- above : Bunning, Pierce, Reuschel, Tiant
- below : Lolich, Koosman, Perry, Reuss
- beside : Dauss, so wildly out of era, where the others are almost contemporary, that he really shouldn't be included

STLCards2
02-04-2008, 09:23 PM
I would put Bunning, Tiant and Pierce all in- in that order. Nobody else listed has a great case in my opinion.

Brad Harris
02-05-2008, 08:45 AM
Tiant and Pierce are the only two on this list that I'd consider and I'm not quite sold on either. Both are probably among the 100 greatest pitchers in history.