BBF HOF 2-2 to 2-22 voting thread

[jalbright]

Let the voting begin! For anyone who has not participated before, please read the rules posted here

The Rules (http://baseball-fever.com/showpost.php?p=1014933&postcount=2)

Those players receiving only one ballot in an election may go on to a list from which voters may only vote for a limited number of such candidates. For more details on this rule, please follow the above link to the Rules. For this election, you may not select more than six (6) from this list:


Bond, Tommy**
Bottomley, Jim
Elliott, Bob
Face, Roy
Jones, Charley*
Kingman, Dave**
Mathews, Bobby**
McCormick, Jim**
Munson, Thurman
O'Neill, Tip*
Pinson, Vada**
Rizzuto, Phil
Rosen, Al
Veach, Bobby**
Youngs, Ross


For more details on this rule, please consult the link to the Rules above, and to this post: Limited Selection List (http://baseball-fever.com/showpost.php?p=1015092&postcount=7)

Also, please note that now ballots as short as zero (0) names are now permitted. However, if a voter intends to cast a ballot naming no one, this must be clearly communicated or the ballot will not count.

Voting in this cycle will end at 11:59:59 pm Eastern Time, February 22, 2007.

Other information of note is who is in the BBF HOF.

BBF HOF membership by category (http://baseball-fever.com/showpost.php?p=1014935&postcount=3)

BBF HOF membership listed alphabetically (http://baseball-fever.com/showpost.php?p=1014936&postcount=4)

Last month's results are posted. You are requested to pay particular attention to those individuals receiving 50% or more of the vote last election, as they are the most likely candidates to be elected this month. In fact, I have specific posts on players receiving 50% or more of last month's vote:

Results of last election (http://baseball-fever.com/showpost.php?p=1015079&postcount=5)

Those with 50% or more last election (http://baseball-fever.com/showpost.php?p=1015103&postcount=9)

I have also posted this with respect to the status of the project:

Project Status (http://baseball-fever.com/showpost.php?p=1015091&postcount=6)

I have posted all the players who have exceeded 50% of the vote at least once without yet being elected

50%+ voting history (http://baseball-fever.com/showpost.php?p=1015105&postcount=10)

Also, please note that you can access the last voting thread (http://baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=70945) here.

[jalbright]

My 2/2 - 2/22/08 ballot

key:
red=Japanese League
blue=Negro Leagues
green=19th century

I'm only putting four new names on, though we elected five. The newbies are Tommy Leach, Dick Lundy, Quincy Trouppe and Bucky Walters. The electees were Ken Boyer, Larry Doyle, Eppa Rixey, Red Ruffing and Bobby Wallace.

Players

1. Sal Bando, 3b
2. Akira Bessho, p (Japan)
3. Cupid Childs, 2b
4. Wilbur Cooper, p
5. Leon Day, p
6. Darrell Evans, 3b
7. Jack Glasscock, ss
8. Burleigh Grimes, p
9. Tommy Leach
10. Dick Lundy, ss
11. Tony Mullane, p
12. Hiromitsu Ochiai 1B/3B (Japan)
13. Alejandro Oms, of
14. Dan Quisenberry, p
15. Sam Rice, of
16. Hardy Richardson, 2b
17. Joe Start, 1b
18. Vern Stephens, ss
19. Bruce Sutter, p
20. Ezra Sutton, 3b
21. Quincy Trouppe, c
22. Bucky Walters, p
23. Vic Willis, p
24. Hack Wilson, of

Anyone who wants more information on these or other players, please see my latest player voting guide (http://baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=68335)

[Cowtipper]

Jake Beckley
Chief Bender
Akira Bessho
Bobby Bonds
Pete Browning
Kiki Cuyler
Lefty Gomez
Burleigh Grimes
Addie Joss
Chuck Klein
Heinie Manush
Cal McVey
Al Oliver
Alejandro Oms
Dan Quisenberry
Jim Rice
Sam Rice
Jimmy Ryan
Lee Smith
Bruce Sutter
Larry Walker
Lloyd Waner
Mickey Welch
Vic Willis
Hack Wilson

[Sockeye]

Jake Beckley, 1b
Akira Bessho, p
Roger Bresnahan, c
Pete Browning, of
Jose Canseco, of
Cupid Childs, 2b
Darrell Evans, 3b
Dwight Evans, of
Lefty Gomez, p
Burleigh Grimes, p
Addie Joss, p
Dave Kingman, 1b
Chuck Klein, of
Edgar Martinez, 3b
Cal McVey, 1b
Dan Quisenberry, p
Rafael Palmeiro, 1b
Sam Rice, of
Jimmy Sheckard, of
Joe Start, 1b
Bruce Sutter, p
Hack Wilson, of
Mickey Welch, p
Jimmy Wynn, of
Vic Willis, p

[jjpm74]

Jake Beckley
Chief Bender
Roger Bresnahan
Cupid Childs
Leon Day
Lefty Gomez
Burleigh Grimes
Addie Joss
Chuck Klein
Rabbit Maranville
Cal McVey
Tony Mullane
Thurman Munson
Lip Pike
Dan Quisenberry
Sam Rice
Hardy Richardson
Phil Rizzuto
Joe Start
Vern Stephens
Bruce Sutter
Ezra Sutton
Mickey Welch
Hack Wilson
Jimmy Wynn

[Brad Harris]

Akira Bessho
Cupid Childs
Wilbur Cooper
Leon Day
Darrell Evans
Jack Glasscock
Burleigh Grimes
Dick Lundy
Edgar Martinez
Cal McVey
Tony Mullane
Hiromitsu Ochiai
Alejandro Oms
Dan Quisenberry
Sam Rice
Hardy Richardson
Jimmy Sheckard
Joe Start
Vern Stephens
Bruce Sutter
Ezra Sutton
Quincy Trouppe
Bucky Walters
Vic Willis
Jimmy Wynn

[Captain Cold Nose]

Jake Beckley
Akira Bessho
Pete Browning
Kiki Cuyler
Leon Day
Jack Glasscock
Lefty Gomez
Burleigh Grimes
Bob Johnson
Addie Joss
Chuck Klein
Ernie Lombardi
Heinie Manush
Hiromitsu Ochiai
Alejandro Oms
Rafael Palmeiro
Spot Poles
Jim Rice
Sam Rice
Jimmy Ryan
Jimmy Sheckard
Lee Smith
Bruce Sutter
Mickey Welch
Hack Wilson

[dgarza]

Pete Browning
Kiki Cuyler
Lefty Gomez
Bob Johnson
Chuck Klein
Tony Lazzeri
Ernie Lombardi
Heinie Manush
Edgar Martinez
Bobby Matthews
Jim McCormick
Cal McVey
Tony Mullane
Tony Oliva
Tip O'Neill
Rafael Palmeiro
Jim Rice
Al Rosen
Lee Smith
Vern Stephens
Bobby Veach
Larry Walker
Mickey Welch
Vic Willis
Hack Wilson

[TheSlaff]

Jake Beckley
Roger Bresnahan
Pete Browning
Kiki Cuyler
Bob Elliott
Dwight Evans
Burleigh Grimes
Lefty Gomez
Keith Hernandez
Addie Joss
Chuck Klein
Edgar Martinez
Cal McVey
Rafael Palmeiro
Dickey Pearce
Dan Quisenberry
Sam Rice
Hardy Richardson
Joe Start
Vern Stephens
Bruce Sutter
Ezra Sutton
Larry Walker
Mickey Welch
Hack Wilson

[Dogdaze]

Jake Beckley
Chief Bender
Akira Bessho
Pete Browning
Wilbur Cooper
Kiki Cuyler
Leon Day
Lefty Gomez
Addie Joss
Chuck Klein
Ernie Lombardi
Dick Lundy
Heinie Manush
Hiromitsu Ochiai
Al Oliver
Alejandro Oms
Spotswood Poles
Dan Quisenberry
Jim Rice
Sam Rice
Lee Smith
Bruce Sutter
Lloyd Waner
Mickey Welch
Hack Wilson

[BlueBlood]

1. Jake Beckley, 1b
2. Chief Bender, p
3. Jim Bottomley, 1b
4. Pete Browning, of
5. Kiki Cuyler, of
6. Lefty Gomez, p
7. Addie Joss, p
8. Chuck Klein, of
9. Heinie Manush, of
10. Al Oliver, of
11. Sam Rice, of
12. Lloyd Waner, of
13. Vic Willis, p
14. Hack Wilson, of
15. Ross Youngs, of

-Removed Sewell from my ballot after his election two cycles ago. Was out-and-about Europe during the last one but would've seemingly only prevented the recent crop from getting in as none of them were on my ballot. Still not buying into the Quisenberry/Sutter hype but I'll think about some more and try-and-see if I have the time here in Boston to read some more arguments for those two.

[leecemark]

Bresnahan, R.
Bridges, T. - edited onto ballot 2/22
Childs, C.
Hernandez, K.
Leach, T. - edited onto ballot 2/21
McVey, C.
Mullane, T.
Nettles, G
Rice, J.
Sheckard, J.
Start, J.
Wynn, J.

--This ballot is getting embarassingly short. There are alot of players I am open to persuation on who are just short of making my ballot at this point. I'll be looking to the results of the Ultimate Quest For Candidates and will probably include the top non-BBFHOfers on that list once the project runs its course. I'll also be hoping to gain some insight from the Suburbs of Cooperstown draft. Anybody who goes in the first round who is; a) not already in the BBFHoF and b) not already on my ballot will get the nod. Likewise anyone who is first picked at their position.

[Paul Wendt]

--This ballot is getting embarassingly short.

Yes, it is. The one that follows is short and it's twice as long. But it isn't final. I expect to vote for 25.
edit: now 23 | edit: now 24 | edit: now 25
(all edits were "adds" named in bold; there were no "drops")

Wally Berger
Akira Bessho
Roger Bresnahan
Cupid Childs
Gavvy Cravath
Darrell Evans (*)
Jack Glasscock
Burleigh Grimes - behind Cooper in my personal ranking, but ahead in the queue (see Discussion)
Charley Jones
Charlie Keller
Tommy Leach
Herman Long
Cal McVey
Tony Mullane - now ahead of Cooper and Grimes in my personal ranking
Graig Nettles
Alejandro Oms - undeniable if you buy the projections (see Keltner Lists) at 20% discount or less
Dickey Pearce
Lip Pike
Dan Quisenberry
Hardy Richardson
Jimmy Sheckard
Joe Start
Bruce Sutter
Ezra Sutton
Jimmy Wynn

Among the leaders jalbright covered in the ballot progress report, the change here so far is Beckley out, Sutter in.

* Evans played more at third base than anywhere else and he was a good one there (maybe not great). That distinguishes him from Ryan, Beckley, Evans, Palmeiro, and Walker whom I supported last week and would make 25, but I have dropped them at least temporarily.

[2Chance]

Thus far the only addition is Tony Mullane, so there are three open spots to consider. I intend to fill them in this week, and will be looking for reasons to vote for someone throughout the HoF threads.

Bando, Sal
Bessho, Akira
Bresnahan, Roger
Burns, George J.
Childs, Cupid
Cooper, Wilbur
Day, Leon
Evans, Darrell
Evans, Dwight
Glasscock, Jack
Grimes, Burleigh
Leach, Tommy
Manush, Heinie
Martinez, Edgar
McVey, Cal
Mullane, Tony
Ochiai, Hiromitsu
Oms, Alejandro
Pearce, Dickey
Quisenberry, Dan
Richardson, Hardy
Start, Joe
Sutter, Bruce
Trouppe, Quincy
Wynn, Jimmy

[Freakshow]

Short commentary this time. Last election was amazing, with four of the five that were on my ballot the longest getting elected. Now if we can just elect Darrell Evans, Jack Glasscock and Jimmy Wynn I can die a happy man. My four newbies are Childs, Leach, Oms and Pike. I've determined that we are full up on relief pitchers and Japanese stars, but still quite short on 19th century players.

16 Beckley-1B
4 Bresnahan-C
3 Browning P-OF*
1 Childs-2B*
32 Evans Da-3B*
20 Evans Dw-RF*
25 Glasscock-SS*
11 Grimes-P
20 Hernandez-1B*
3 Keller-LF*
4 Klein-RF
1 Leach T-3B*
7 Martinez E-DH*
2 McVey-C*
4 Nettles-3B*
1 Oms-CF*
21 Palmeiro-1B*
9 Pearce D-SS*
1 Pike-CF*
8 Richardson H-2B*
7 Ryan J-CF*
6 Sheckard-LF*
8 Start-1B*
2 Sutton E-3B*
25 Wynn J-CF*
9.6 ave mos on ballot

[leecemark]

Dan, I may have to keep those guys off my ballot just to give you something to live for:).

[J W]

Jake Beckley*
Chief Bender*
Bobby Bonds
Roger Bresnahan
Tommy Bridges*
Lefty Gomez
Addie Joss
Chuck Klein*
Tommy Leach
Rabbit Maranville*
Edgar Martinez
Dan Quisenberry
Jimmy Ryan
Lee Smith*
Bruce Sutter
Larry Walker
Mickey Welch
Vic Willis
Jimmy Wynn
-----
-----
-----
-----
-----
-----

* = bubble

[AG2004]

My February 22, 2008 ballot

PLAYERS
Sal Bando
Wally Berger
Akira Bessho
Bobby Bonds
Roger Bresnahan
Cupid Childs
Wilbur Cooper
Darrell Evans
Dwight Evans
Burleigh Grimes
Keith Hernandez
Charlie Keller
Tommy Leach
Hiromitsu Ochiai
Alejandro Oms
Dickey Pearce
Spotswood Poles
Dan Quisenberry
Jimmy Sheckard
Joe Start
Bruce Sutter
Ezra Sutton
Quincy Trouppe
Vic Willis
Jimmy Wynn

[Erik Bedard]

Jake Beckley
Akira Bessho
Roger Bresnahan
Gavy Cravath
Dwight Evans
Red Faber
Burleigh Grimes
Home Run Johnson
Chuck Klein
Rabbit Maranville
Edgar Martinez
Cal McVey
Dobie Moore
Tony Mullane
Hiromitsu Ochiai
Tony Oliva
Alejandro Oms
Dickey Pearce
Lip Pike
Dan Quisenberry
Jimmy Sheckard
Reggie Smith
Joe Start
Bruce Sutter
Jimmy Wynn

[jalbright]

Here's the player voting for the just completed election, which had 17 valid ballots. We elected Bruce Sutter.

Players……………….... votes pct Players………………... votes pct
Sutter, Bruce…….. 13 76.5 Bando, Sal……….... 3 17.6
Grimes, Burleigh….. 12 70.6 Beckley, Jake…….. 10 58.8
Quisenberry, Dan.. 12 70.6 Bender, Chief…….. 5 29.4
Klein, Chuck………. 11 64.7 Berger, Wally…….. 2 11.8
McVey, Cal…........ 11 64.7 Bessho, Akira……. 10 58.8
Beckley, Jake…….. 10 58.8 Bonds, Bobby……... 3 17.6
Bessho, Akira……. 10 58.8 Bottomley, Jim……. 1 5.9
Bresnahan, Roger 10 58.8 Bresnahan, Roger 10 58.8
Oms, Alejandro…… 10 58.8 Bridges, Tommy….. 2 11.8
Start, Joe…………... 10 58.8 Browning, Pete…… 8 47.1
Wynn, Jimmy……….. 10 58.8 Burns, George…….. 1 5.9
Childs, Cupid……… 9 52.9 Canseco, Jose…….. 1 5.9
Gomez, Lefty…….. 9 52.9 Childs, Cupid……… 9 52.9
Rice, Sam…………... 9 52.9 Cooper, Wilbur…… 5 29.4
Wilson, Hack……….. 9 52.9 Cravath, Gavvy…… 2 11.8
Browning, Pete…… 8 47.1 Cuyler, Kiki………… 6 35.3
Joss, Addie………... 8 47.1 Day, Leon…………... 6 35.3
Martinez, Edgar…… 8 47.1 Elliott, Bob…………. 1 5.9
Mullane, Tony…….. 8 47.1 Evans, Darrell……. 7 41.2
Sheckard, Jimmy…. 8 47.1 Evans, Dwight……. 6 35.3
Welch, Mickey……. 8 47.1 Glasscock, Jack…. 6 35.3
Willis, Vic…………. 8 47.1 Gomez, Lefty…….. 9 52.9
Evans, Darrell……. 7 41.2 Grimes, Burleigh….. 12 70.6
Leach, Toimmy……. 7 41.2 Hernandez, Keith… 4 23.5
Ochiai, Hiromitsu…. 7 41.2 Johnson, Bob…….. 2 11.8
Richardson, Hardy 7 41.2 Jones, Charley…… 1 5.9
Sutton, Ezra……….. 7 41.2 Joss, Addie……….... 8 47.1
Cuyler, Kiki………… 6 35.3 Keller, Charlie…….. 3 17.6
Day, Leon…………... 6 35.3 Kingman, Dave….. 1 5.9
Evans, Dwight……. 6 35.3 Klein, Chuck………. 11 64.7
Glasscock, Jack…. 6 35.3 Lazzeri, Tony…….. 1 5.9
Manush, Heinie…… 6 35.3 Leach, Toimmy……. 7 41.2
Pearce, Dickey……. 6 35.3 Lombardi, Ernie…… 3 17.6
Bender, Chief…….. 5 29.4 Long, Herman…….. 1 5.9
Cooper, Wilbur…… 5 29.4 Lundy, Dick……….. 3 17.6
Palmeiro, Rafael….. 5 29.4 Manush, Heinie…… 6 35.3
Rice, Jim…………..... 5 29.4 Maranville, Rabbit 3 17.6
Smith, Lee………….. 5 29.4 Martinez, Edgar…… 8 47.1
Stephens, Vern….. 5 29.4 Mathews, Bobby…. 1 5.9
Hernandez, Keith… 4 23.5 McCormick, Jim…… 1 5.9
Pike, Lip………….. 4 23.5 McVey, Cal……….... 11 64.7
Ryan, Jimmy……….. 4 23.5 Mullane, Tony…….. 8 47.1
Trouppe, Quincy…. 4 23.5 Munson, Thurman.. 1 5.9
Walker, Larry…….. 4 23.5 Nettles, Graig…….. 3 17.6
Bando, Sal……….... 3 17.6 Ochiai, Hiromitsu.. 7 41.2
Bonds, Bobby……... 3 17.6 Oliva, Tony……….. 2 11.8
Keller, Charlie…….. 3 17.6 Oliver, Al………….. 3 17.6
Lombardi, Ernie…… 3 17.6 Oms, Alejandro…… 10 58.8
Lundy, Dick……….. 3 17.6 O'Neill, Tip………… 1 5.9
Maranville, Rabbit 3 17.6 Palmeiro, Rafael….. 5 29.4
Nettles, Graig…….. 3 17.6 Pearce, Dickey……. 6 35.3
Oliver, Al………….. 3 17.6 Pike, Lip………….. 4 23.5
Poles, Spotswood 3 17.6 Poles, Spotswood 3 17.6
Waner, Lloyd…….. 3 17.6 Quisenberry, Dan.. 12 70.6
Berger, Wally…….. 2 11.8 Rice, Jim…………..... 5 29.4
Bridges, Tommy….. 2 11.8 Rice, Sam…………... 9 52.9
Cravath, Gavvy…… 2 11.8 Richardson, Hardy 7 41.2
Johnson, Bob…….. 2 11.8 Rizzuto, Phil………... 1 5.9
Oliva, Tony……….. 2 11.8 Rosen, Al………….... 1 5.9
Walters, Bucky…… 2 11.8 Ryan, Jimmy……….. 4 23.5
Bottomley, Jim……. 1 5.9 Sheckard, Jimmy…. 8 47.1
Burns, George…….. 1 5.9 Smith, Lee………….. 5 29.4
Canseco, Jose…….. 1 5.9 Smith, Reggie…….. 1 5.9
Elliott, Bob…………. 1 5.9 Start, Joe…………... 10 58.8
Jones, Charley…… 1 5.9 Stephens, Vern….. 5 29.4
Kingman, Dave….. 1 5.9 Sutter, Bruce…….. 13 76.5
Lazzeri, Tony…….. 1 5.9 Sutton, Ezra……….. 7 41.2
Long, Herman…….. 1 5.9 Trouppe, Quincy…. 4 23.5
Mathews, Bobby…. 1 5.9 Veach, Bobby…….. 1 5.9
McCormick, Jim…… 1 5.9 Walker, Larry…….. 4 23.5
Munson, Thurman.. 1 5.9 Walters, Bucky…… 2 11.8
O'Neill, Tip………….. 1 5.9 Waner, Lloyd…….. 3 17.6
Rizzuto, Phil……….. 1 5.9 Welch, Mickey……. 8 47.1
Rosen, Al………….... 1 5.9 Willis, Vic…………. 8 47.1
Smith, Reggie…….. 1 5.9 Wilson, Hack……….. 9 52.9
Veach, Bobby…….. 1 5.9 Wynn, Jimmy……….. 10 58.8
Youngs, Ross…….. 1 5.9 Youngs, Ross…….. 1 5.9

[Paul Wendt]

Several players gained three or more votes. The most remarkable, not to say electable this winter, may be
Quincy Trouppe and Dick Lundy entered the rolls at four votes and three (first votes ever?).

The comparison of Jake Beckley and Joe Start has done its work. Now they are both three votes from election.

[jalbright]

Several players gained three or more votes. The most remarkable, not to say electable this winter, may be
Quincy Trouppe and Dick Lundy entered the rolls at four votes and three (first votes ever?).

The comparison of Jake Beckley and Joe Start has done its work. Now they are both three votes from election.


Trouppe and Lundy are coming in at a time when we're entering the homestretch, and I'm sure that has something to do with their early jump. It doesn't hurt that they're coming on the ballot with an argument in their favor. There is an attention effect here at BBF HOF. Start is gaining from the arguments in his favor. The two jumps that I'd think may be of the most immediate import are those of Oms and Childs, followed by Leach.

[Paul Wendt]

Trouppe and Lundy are coming in at a time when we're entering the homestretch, and I'm sure that has something to do with their early jump. It doesn't hurt that they're coming on the ballot with an argument in their favor. There is an attention effect here at BBF HOF.

and the election of five at once is the occasion for an attention effect to be effective, and it is part of your role to direct attention.

The two jumps that I'd think may be of the most immediate import are those of Oms and Childs, followed by Leach.

and McVey

[jalbright]

I've chosen to be one who tries to direct attention, and, yes, the fact we had elected five players the previous election helped. However, anyone among our voters who wishes to try and direct attention in the manner he or she would like is free to do so. Some are better at it than others, and it helps if you can speak intelligently about Win Shares or WARP or whatever, as many of our voters are comfortable with those measures. Also, I've found that while there's virtually no one I could persuade that Mario Mendoza (or other unworthies) deserves a vote, I have gotten better at finding the types of arguments that tend to sway our voters. Unfortunately, by this point we're definitely moving into the "gray area" of at least most of our voters, and that makes getting 75% to focus on any particular candidate more difficult.