top center fielders since the 60s

[micsmith]

I was just looking at the list of players in the hall of fame and couldn't believe that there has only been one center fielder who started his career 1960 or later that has been elected (kirby puckett).

Who do you feel are the top 5 or 10 players that match the following criteria:

1. started their careers in the year 1960 or later
2. played (or for active players) have played the majority of their games in center field

puckett, griffey, and andruw jones come to my mind first.

i find it interesting that so many left fielders and right fielders from 1960-present are in the hall (or are on their way to the hall) compared to the number of center fielders.

[jjpm74]

Rickey Henderson is the first guy who comes to mind for me, though I can't remember how many games he played at Center Field.

[Captain Cold Nose]

Andre Dawson will eventually get in, although he was hardly exclusive to center field. Whether he was actually better or worse than Jimmy Wynn, Fred Lynn, Bernie Williams, and a few others is up for debate.

[leecemark]

--Amoung Cfer who debuted in the 1960s Jimmy Wynn has the best case. He had a very high peak, unfortunately well masked by his time and place. His career wasn't particularly long, but there are some solid Hall of Famers with no more to offer. The best candidates of the 1970s would be Cesar Cedeno, Fred Lynn and Al Oliver. Cedeno and Lynn are peak candidates who would be in if they had been a little better at staying in the lineup. Oliver was never as good as Cedeno and Lynn, but he was pretty good for a long time.
--Dale Murpy had the Hall of Fame peak amoung 80's CFers, but he is another short career guy. Andre Dawson's peak was not as high as many of the previously mentioned, but he put up the best career totals. He appears to have a very good chance of getting elected in the next couple years.
--Ken Griffey Jr is a slam dunk Hall of Famer when he hangs up his spikes. Bernie Williams and Jim Edmunds are winding down (or probably wound in Williams case) careers that should at least merit serious discussion when they reach the ballot. Andrew Jones has a very good start on a Hall of Fame resume. He just needs to show that last year was just an off one and not the start of a serious decline.

[micsmith]

These players don't fit the criteria:

Rickey Henderson - played more games in LF than CF
Andre Dawson - played more games in RF than CF

[leecemark]

--Henderson I agree belongs in LF. Cf was more a brief interlude for him. Dawson, however, played a goodly part of his career in CF, before his knees couldn't hold up to it anymore. If Ernie Banks can be considered a SS or Rod Carew a 2B then Dwson can certainly be considered a CFer.

[Captain Cold Nose]

These players don't fit the criteria:

Rickey Henderson - played more games in LF than CF
Andre Dawson - played more games in RF than CF

True, Dawson did, but he was at his best when he was in Center for Montreal, which is why I mentioned him.

[GiambiJuice]

Griffey
Edmonds
A. Jones

all have a good shot of getting in. (Griffey is a no-brainer of course)

[Brad Harris]

1. Ken Griffey Jr.
2. Jimmy Wynn
3. Jim Edmonds
4. Andruw Jones
5. Kirby Puckett
6. Bernie Williams
7. Fred Lynn
8. Brett Butler
9. Cesar Cedeno
10. Willie Davis

While Dale Murphy technically doesn't meet the criteria listed, I'd have him ranked second in the above list if he did.

[plask_stirlac]

If Eric Davis hadn't been injured so much and stricken with cancer he'd be up there in the top 4. Oh well.

[GiambiJuice]

Oops. Almost forgot about Carlos Beltran. He might have a decent shot if he has a few more seasons like the last two.

[ChrisLDuncan]

Jr.
Wynn
Bernie
Edmonds
Andruw

From there I really can't decide.

[THE OX]

Anybody besides me remember the fine centerfielder Paul Blair of the Orioles back in the late 60s to 1970s?

[leecemark]

--I remember him well. I just wouldn't mention him in a Hall of Fame discussion.

[Brad Harris]

Anybody besides me remember the fine centerfielder Paul Blair of the Orioles back in the late 60s to 1970s?

Integral part of a great dynasty; if only he could have hit more.

[Chickazoola]

Integral part of a great dynasty; if only he could have hit more.

If he didn't get beaned I think his hitting wouldn't have suffered so much.

[dgarza]

These players played a good portion of their careers in CF and are, I think, HOF-worthy.

1. Ken Griffey Jr.
2. Kirby Puckett
3. Andre Dawson
4. Dale Murphy
5. Robin Yount
6. Al Oliver
7. Bernie Williams

Biggest what if = Lyman Bostock

[Fuzzy Bear]

Anybody besides me remember the fine centerfielder Paul Blair of the Orioles back in the late 60s to 1970s?

Blair is nowhere near a HOFer, but he's another "what if".

Blair was a major league regular at age 21, and with a team that had finished second to the Yankees the year before. That's one of the things a HOFer does; come to the majors early and fill a starting role on a team.

Blair was a multiple GG center fielder, and was coming into his own, offensively:

Power/Speed Number
1969 AL-22.6-1
1970 AL-20.6-6
1974 AL-20.9-2

Blair was a key part of the 1969 Oriole success; he hit 26 HRs, and scored 102 runs. He led the league in power-speed, and this was a harbinger of things to come, until the next season, when he was hit in the face by a Ken Tatum fastball. The beaning affected Blair's offensive approach to the game, and he was never much of an offensive force again. He was, however, establishing himself as a low .600s player in Offensive Winning Percentage. At his best, he was comparable to Amos Otis, only better on defense, and about the same level on offense, maybe a wee bit better. Otis, however, had more good seasons; neither of these guys, of course, had HOF careers.

One wonders, however, if Blair had never been beaned, and if he kept up his 1967 and 1969 levels into his thirties, how good he would have been. If he had been the best defensive CF in the AL all that time, how would THAT have played with HOF voters? No outfielder has ever made it into the HOF primarily with his glove, not even a center fielder. Blair had a SMALL, SMALL chance of being that exception, but that ended with his beaning, for all intents and purposes.

[THE OX]

Yeah, I've got to agree with the last few posters that Blair is definitely NOT a Hall Of fame candidate.

But one helluva centerfielder since the 1960s? Abso-cottonpickin'-lutely!

[stejay]

Ken Griffey Jr
Kirby Puckett
Jim Edmonds
Bernie Williams
Andruw Jones

[Brad Harris]

These players played a good portion of their careers in CF and are, I think, HOF-worthy.

1. Ken Griffey Jr.
2. Kirby Puckett
3. Andre Dawson
4. Dale Murphy
5. Robin Yount
6. Al Oliver
7. Bernie Williams

Biggest what if = Lyman Bostock

Two of which, of course, are already enshrined.

I'd say Eric Davis was a bigger "what if" than Bostock, based on what they actually accomplished while they were around.

[J W]

Carlos Beltran was an interesting mention. Most similar batters through age 30:

1. Dale Murphy
2. Greg Luzinski
3. Shawn Green
4. Andre Dawson
5. Billy Williams*
6. Bobby Bonds
7. Gary Sheffield
8. Dave Winfield*
9. Scott Rolen
10. Del Ennis

Nice list. There's a lot of corner OFers on that list. Murphy and Dawson are in the discussion here (Dawson through age 30 anyways). Of course, Beltran has a lower OPS+ than these guys because he put up similar numbers in a more offensive era.

[GiambiJuice]

Also, Beltran is the best basestealer in history, percentage-wise. He almost never gets caught. Very very smart baserunner. He also had a reputation as great defensive player, but he may have declined in the field over the last couple years.

[slugger33]

Griffey Jr. obviously. No one has mentioned him yet, but Johnny Damon is a canidate. I know he doesn't seem very "HoF worthy" right now, but if he gets 3,000 hits, he may make it.

[dgarza]

Anyone think Ichiro will end up playing more games in CF than RF?

[Floyd Butterball]

--I remember him well. I just wouldn't mention him in a Hall of Fame discussion.

He may not have had a Hall OF Fame bat but he had a Hall of Fame glove.

[hellborn]

Two of which, of course, are already enshrined.

I'd say Eric Davis was a bigger "what if" than Bostock, based on what they actually accomplished while they were around.

I agree with this...Bostock was 27 in his last season, and wasn't the regular CFer any more. I think he would've had a fine career as a corner outfielder, but probably wasn't going to get much better.
If Eric had just been able to put in 10 more years at his 1990 level (with some decline tossed in at the end), I think that he'd have had a good HOF argument, with his electric combination of skills.

[jjpm74]

I agree with this...Bostock was 27 in his last season, and wasn't the regular CFer any more. I think he would've had a fine career as a corner outfielder, but probably wasn't going to get much better.
If Eric had just been able to put in 10 more years at his 1990 level (with some decline tossed in at the end), I think that he'd have had a good HOF argument, with his electric combination of skills.

Why 1990? His best year was 1998, but he had some decent ones in the late 1980s.

[hellborn]

Why 1990? His best year was 1998, but he had some decent ones in the late 1980s.

I picked 1990 because he suffered that horrible kidney injury in the WS that year, and it wasn't one of his best years. Trying to say that he didn't need to perform at his absolute peak to make a possible HOF career. And, he was far beyond decent in '86-9, he was outstanding. I'd argue for '87 being his best season, despite it being a big hitting year in general.

[commishbob]

Yeah, I've got to agree with the last few posters that Blair is definitely NOT a Hall Of fame candidate.

But one helluva centerfielder since the 1960s? Abso-cottonpickin'-lutely!

Paul Blair was as good a center fielder as I've ever seen. Unreal instincts and range. No H-O-Famer certainly, but great fun to watch.

[Calif_Eagle]

Blair is nowhere near a HOFer, but he's another "what if".

Blair was a major league regular at age 21, and with a team that had finished second to the Yankees the year before. That's one of the things a HOFer does; come to the majors early and fill a starting role on a team.

Blair was a multiple GG center fielder, and was coming into his own, offensively:

Power/Speed Number
1969 AL-22.6-1
1970 AL-20.6-6
1974 AL-20.9-2

Blair was a key part of the 1969 Oriole success; he hit 26 HRs, and scored 102 runs. He led the league in power-speed, and this was a harbinger of things to come, until the next season, when he was hit in the face by a Ken Tatum fastball. The beaning affected Blair's offensive approach to the game, and he was never much of an offensive force again. He was, however, establishing himself as a low .600s player in Offensive Winning Percentage. At his best, he was comparable to Amos Otis, only better on defense, and about the same level on offense, maybe a wee bit better. Otis, however, had more good seasons; neither of these guys, of course, had HOF careers.

One wonders, however, if Blair had never been beaned, and if he kept up his 1967 and 1969 levels into his thirties, how good he would have been. If he had been the best defensive CF in the AL all that time, how would THAT have played with HOF voters? No outfielder has ever made it into the HOF primarily with his glove, not even a center fielder. Blair had a SMALL, SMALL chance of being that exception, but that ended with his beaning, for all intents and purposes.


"No outfielder has ever made it into the HOF primarily with his glove, not even a center fielder."

Harry Hooper is in the Hall, and I feel that the only thing that even remotely justifies that selection was that he was reputed to be an outstanding defensive outfielder. I'm surprised they didnt put in Duffy Lewis with him. (I dont feel that Lewis or Hooper belongs in the HOF. But Lewis-Speaker-Hooper was once thought to be the best defensive outfield trio/unit ever. If only someone had written a poem about them, Lewis might be in too.)

[RuthMayBond]

"No outfielder has ever made it into the HOF primarily with his glove, not even a center fielder."
Richie Ashburn? Lloyd Waner? Tommy McCarthy?

[Fuzzy Bear]

1. Ken Griffey Jr.
2. Jimmy Wynn
3. Jim Edmonds
4. Andruw Jones
5. Kirby Puckett
6. Bernie Williams
7. Fred Lynn
8. Brett Butler
9. Cesar Cedeno
10. Willie Davis

While Dale Murphy technically doesn't meet the criteria listed, I'd have him ranked second in the above list if he did.

1. Ken Griffey, Jr.
2. Kirby Puckett
3. Jim Edmonds
4. Bernie Williams
5. Carlos Beltran
6. Fred Lynn
7. Jimmy Wynn
8. Kenny Lofton
9. Andruw Jones
10. Andy Van Slyke

[Bone Daddy]

Paul Blair was the pre-eminent AL centerfilelder in the late 60's. Tigers fabulous Mickey Stanley was a close 2nd. Mickey Mantle had been moved to 1st base due to his immoblity and Chisox Ken Berry had defensive chops but lacked offensive punch. That was the extent of elite AL CF'ers. Washington's Del Unser was still raw and Cleveland's Jose Cardenal was just OK. Blair had a dangerous stick and was a integral part of the '66 and '70 Champs- look up Game 3 of the '66 Series- his 5th inning blast was the decider. Paul Blair was an excellent CF but, alas, is not HOF material. Very, very good though... and should be acknowledged.

[Paul Wendt]

This thread is heavy on players from the 1990s and 2000s. Here is a list that may help. It gives all-time ranks thru 1995 and is limited to players with 1955-1984 debuts, approximately those with prime seasons centered in the 1960s to 1980s.

Center Field games, 1871-1995
subset with 1955-1984 debuts
3. Davis Willie
6. Butler
8. Otis
9. Blair
---------------- 1800 games
13 Flood
14 Pinson ***
16 Maddox
21 Lynn(!) *
23 Virdon
---------------- 1500 games
24 Monday
26 Lemon *
29 Cedeno *
31 Puckett *
35 Wilson Willie **
39 Moseby
40 Manning
42 McGee *
46 Moreno
---------------- 1200 games
49 Wynn **
50 Murphy Dwayne

* represents 250 games in left and right fields. For example '**' may represent 300 LF games and 200 RF games. Vada Pinson played 750-999 games in left and right.

Everyone here has been passed in career CF games by one or more recent players. Steve Finley is now third, with Davis and Cobb far behind Mays and Speaker.

Everyone here worked mainly under the 162-game schedule (except Bill Virdon NL 1955-65). All would be passed by some from the 1870s to 1950s if career playing time were measured as shares of full seasons. Finley, Cobb, and Davis would be 3-4-5. But that correction is almost meaningless for this group and the more recent players considered only among themselves. The shorter schedules of 1955-61 and the disruptions of 1972, 1981, and 1994-95 do not amount to much.

[brett]

Anyone think Ichiro will end up playing more games in CF than RF?

He should have will have.

If he had played at center all along he is probably a saber worthy hall of famer

(though Amos Otis may have actually been better than Ichiro. A little better OPS+. A stolen base champion and a three time gold glover in center)

[Edgartohof]

Over his whole career (Japan included), he has played more games in CF than RF. He moved to RF when he came to the MLB. So it was a natural switch for him to move back there.

In his 7 seasons in the MLB, he has:

898 games in RF
197 games in CF

So he would need 702 more games in CF to have more time there than in RF, for his time in the MLB.

So I guess he COULD do it. But he would probably be remembered as a RF. AS he had 2 of his most historic seasons there ('01 and '04). But I guess we'll have to wait and see.

[Paul Wendt]

This list differs from #35 by two matters of definition. First, it covers centerfield games through 2007 rather than 1995. Second, games are counted as shares of full seasons, 1/162 in 2007 and 1/60 in 1877: full season equivalent games played in CF (FSE games).

There are also two differences in display. First, the selection is everyone with debut 1955 or later, rather than 1955-1984, so it includes more recent careers and unfinished careers (active players). Second, the ordering is by debut rather than by career rank in FSE games.

--
Through 2007 there are 32 players with 10.0 or more full seasons equivalent games played in centerfield.

4 with debuts in the 1950s - Mantle, Mays, Flood, Pinson
14 more recent (7 active in 2006!)
14 earlier

There is a 7-year gap between Mantle & Mays in 1951 and Flood & Pinson in 1958, so it seems reasonable to draw the line between them, and associate them with the 1950s and 1960s respectively. That makes 16 "since the 1960s" or "from the expansion era". Here are the 16 with all-time ranks, ordered by debut year and grouped by debut decade, 1950s to 1990s.

Center Field games, 1871-2007,
10 or more full seasons equivalent (32 players)
rank on career list, subset with debuts since 1955 (16 players)
23 Curt Flood
28 Vada Pinson

_5 Willie Davis
17 Paul Blair
15 Amos Otis

25 Garry Maddox
32 Fred Lynn

10 Brett Butler
19 Devon White
_3 Steve Finley
_7 Ken Griffey
12 Marquis Grissom

11 Ken Lofton
14 Bernie Williams
31 Jim Edmonds
30 Andruw Jones