1967-8 Offseason thread

[leecemark]

--Welcome to the CKL 1967-8 offseason. These are the tenative dates for offseason activities.
Non-tender deadline: midnight EST on Friday, February 1
Rookie Draft: 8PM EST on Friday, February 8
Free Agent Auction: 8PM EST on Friday, February 15
Rosters filled and profiles submitted: midnight EST on Thursday, February 21
Opening Day: Friday, February 22
--If these dates are a problem for anyone please speak up ASAP.

[leecemark]

--Attached is the first draft of the 1968 rosters. Players with expiring contracts have not yet been removed. Please advise me of those players from your team so I canmake the edits. There will also be some missing players. Anybody not active in 1968 won't show up. If you have any players under contract who didn't play in the majors in 1968, but whom you'd like to keep please let me know and I'll add them to your roster. If you find any other mistakes let me know about those too.

[catcher24]

OK, let me be the first this off season (unless Mark posts something while I type this!). The Legends announce a HUGE trade with the Sockeyes, who seem to be owned by Trader Frank Lane, not a guy named Garry.:p

The Legends will send Mike Cuellar, Jim Northrup and the Stingers 2nd round draft pick in 1970 (obtained in trade a couple of seasons ago) to the Angels. In return, the Legends will receive Hank Aaron, Duke Sims, Jim Lefebvre and the Angels 4th round pick in 1969 (which I expect to be negligible, at best).

Garry, when you have time from burning up the trade lines, please confirm. You may also post our other trade and I'll confirm.

[leecemark]

--Well that does that the offseason out with a bang!

[leecemark]

--The Knights also have a deal with the Angels to announce. Leecemark send the Badgers first round pick (3rd overall) and the Angels second round pick to Sockeye for the Angels first pick (first overall). Garry confirm when you get a chance.

[Erik Bedard]

In another deal with the Angels, the Gold Sox send Sockeye's crew the Gold Sox 1st rounder in 1970, second rounders in '72, '73, and '74, and third rounder in '71. Coming to the Windy City will be Jimmy Wynn and Jim Northrup.

[leecemark]

--From the class of 62....
1) Skipjacks - Tony Oliva, LH-OF (premium with HTD rights)
2) Gamblers - Gaylord Perry, RH-P (premium with HTD)
3) Diablos - Willie Stargell, LH-OF (already entered FA deal)
4) Quakers - Bob Veale, LH-P (premium with HTD)
5) Hard Cider - Dick Radatz, RH-P (from Legends)
6) Redbirds - Dave McNally, LH-P (premium - unrestricted)[/B
7) Cannons - Denis Menke, RH-SS [B](premium - unrestricted)
8) Skipjacks - Jim Bouton, RH-P (from Hard Cider)
9) Skipjacks - Don Lock, RH-OF (from Knights via Hard Cider)

Second Round - $250k
10) Skipjacks - Pete Ward, LH-3B
11) Gamblers - Cookie Rojas, RH-2B
12) Hard Cider - Pete Richert, LH-P (from Diablos) (already on FA deal)
13) Legends - Jack Lamabe, RH-P (from Quakers via Hard Cider)
14) Legends - Ed Charles, RH-3B
15) Redbirds - Bob Bailey, RH-3B
16) Legends - Bob Tillman, RH-C (from Cannons)
17) Redbirds - Dal Maxvill, RH-SS (from Hard Cider)
18) Legends - Denny Lemaster, LH-P (from Knights)

Third Round - $250k
19) Redbirds - Diego Segui, RH-P (from Skipjacks via Hard Cider)
20) Gamblers - Manny Mota, RH-OF
21) Diablos - Fred Norman, LH-P
22) Quakers - Joe Pepitone, LH-1B (premium with HTD)
23) Legends - Bo Belinsky, LH-P
24) Redbirds - Tommie Agee, RH-OF
25) Knights - Max Alvis, RH-3B (from Cannons)
26) Skipjacks - Bob Humphreys, RH-P (from Hard Cider)
27) Knights - Dennis Bennett, LH-P

Additional Picks - $250k
28) Skipjacks - Fred Whitfield, LH-1B
29) Legends - Bernie Allen, LH-2B
30) Redbirds - Gene Conley, RH-P
31) Cannons - Tommy Harper, RH-OF
32) Hard Cider - Ron Taylor, RH-P
33) Knights - Don Rudolph, LH-P
34) Skipjacks - Bud Daley, LH-P
35) Diablos - Ken McMullen, RH-3B (premium with HTD)
36) Legends - Don Stenhouse, RH-P

37) Redbirds - Ken Berry, RH-OF
38) Cannons - Cal Koonce, RH-P - already on FA contract
39) Hard Cider - Sammy Ellis, RH-P
40) Skipjacks - Jim Golden, RH-P
41) Legends - Joe Bonikowski, RH-P
42) Legends - Dan Osinski, RH-P
43) Legends - John Boozer, RH-P
44) Legends - Tommie Sisk, RH-P
45) Legends - Julio Navarro, RH-P

46) Legends - Bob Botz, RH-P
47) Legends - Merritt Ranew, LH-C
48) Legends - Manny Jiminez, LH-OF
49) Legends - Ted Savage, RH-OF
50) Cannons - Jim Roland, LH-P (already on FA deal)

Other premium FA: Joe Morgan (non-tender)


--Tenatively I see 7 premium free agents. Possibily more depending on HTD being offered by clubs who still hold the rights to any of the players not already indicated. Some of these players may also have been previously released and on multi-year deals and won't be on the market. I haven't gone through and checked all the fringe players.

[leecemark]

In another deal with the Angels, the Gold Sox send Sockeye's crew the Gold Sox 1st rounder in 1970, second rounders in '72, '73, and '74, and third rounder in '71. Coming to the Windy City will be Jimmy Wynn and Jim Northrup.


--Looks like the Angels are going for a complete overhaul instead of building on a decent foundation left by the Cannons. Sockeye is obviously intent on putting his own stamp on the team.

[leecemark]

--for now anyway....
1) Angels (1- Knights)
2) Redbirds (1-Angels)
3) Badgers (1-Legends)
4) Gold Sox (1-Redbirds, 2-Gamblers, 3-Hard Cider, 4-Angels)
5) Hornets (1-Legends)
6) Shoeless Joes
7) Diablos (2-Hard Cider)
8) Gamblers (2-Shoeless Joes)
9) Hard Cider (2 and 3 - Gamblers)
10) Knights (1-Badgers, 2-Shoeless Joes)
11) Skipjacks (2and 3- Angels)
12) Legends (1 - Hornets)

[Sockeye]

TRADE ONE

JW Skipjacks send

- 3B Brooks Robinson (18.0, 64-68)
- 2nd round pick in '68 (JW Skipjacks)
- 3rd round pick in '69 (from Hard Cider)

to Sockeye's Angels for

- RP Don McMahon (10.0, 65-69)
- SP Ray Sadecki (9.25, 61)
- 1B/OF Ken Harrelson (1.0, 63-68)

Please confirm the deal when you have time.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
TRADE TWO

Leecemark Knights send

- 1st round pick in '68 (from Badgers)
- 2nd round pick in '68 (from Angels)

to Sockeye's Angels for

- 1st round pick in '68 (Angels)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
TRADE THREE

Lew's Legends send

- Mike Cuellar (4.50, 61)
- Jim Northrup (2.75, 64-69)
- Gene Alley (1.00, 63-68)
- 1st round pick in '68 (from Redbirds)
- 2nd round pick in '70 (from Stingers)

to Sockeye's Angels for

- Hank Aaron (12.00, 61)
- Duke Sims (.75, 64-69)
- Jim Lefebvre (1.50, 65-70)
- Bert Campaneris (1.50, 64-69)
- Don Buford (1.25) 63-68)
- 1st rd pick in '68 (from Badgers)
- 4th round pick in '69 (Angels)

I combined our two trades into one since we had to wait to announce it. Please confirm the rest of the deal when you get a chance.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
TRADE FOUR

EB Gold Sox send

- 1st round pick in '70 (from Gold Sox)
- 3rd round pick in '71 (from Gold Sox)
- 2nd round pick in '72 (from Gold Sox)
- 2nd round pick in '73 (from Gold Sox)
- 2nd round pick in '74 (from Gold Sox)

to Sockeye's Angels for

- Jimmy Wynn (1.50, 63-68)
- Jim Northrup (2.75, 64-69)

With each of the deals I included the players salary for the '68 season as I understand them to be. If any of these salaries are incorrect please let me know so I can make the correction.

[Erik Bedard]

Don't forget that the Gamblers' third-round pick was traded to me, and I forfeited it due to PT violations.

[Erik Bedard]

Okay, let's get this out of the way early.

Gold Sox non-tenders/contract expirations:

Jerry Buchek, 2B
Pete Ward, 3B
Tony Gonzalez, OF
Jim Weaver, RP
Tommy Harper, OF*
Tommie Sisk, P*


Retirees:

Whitey Ford
Bob Allen
Barry Latman

... leaving us at 68.00M for 32 players.

[mac195]

Good grief. I'm feeling left out of all this trade action.

http://www.amazinavenue.com/images/user/3/aa_ron_hunt_01.jpg

2B Ron Hunt is on the block. He's in his last year before free agency (class of '63). Hunt is an ideal leadoff hitter (.371 real life OBA for the Mets was 6th in the National League, rated VG as a runner in DM.)

I could also part with OF Rick Reichhart, (class of '64) a pretty good all around left fielder in '68.

https://www.gfg.com/cardimg/344/66899.jpg


I'm looking for pitching for '68, a draft pick, or maybe something else. Let me know if you have any interest.

[Sockeye]

--Attached is the first draft of the 1968 rosters. Players with expiring contracts have not yet been removed. Please advise me of those players from your team so I canmake the edits. There will also be some missing players. Anybody not active in 1968 won't show up. If you have any players under contract who didn't play in the majors in 1968, but whom you'd like to keep please let me know and I'll add them to your roster. If you find any other mistakes let me know about those too.

Came across 5 players not listed that are under contract with the Angels for the '68 season. They are as follows.

1B-Brant Alyea (.25) (drafted 1965, leaves after 1970)
RP-Jim Ray (.25) (drafted 1965, leaves after 1970)
LF-Norm Miller (.25) (signed FA 1967, contract expires after 1969)
LF-Willie Smith (.25) (signed FA 1967, contract expires after 1969)
1B-Mike Hegan (.25) (signed FA 1967, contract expires after 1969)

[Sockeye]

Brooks Robinson is officially on the trading block. For anyone needing a great defensive 3B with a decent bat (116 OPS+ in '68) come see me. He has one year left on his contract at 18.00 mil before becoming a free agent. Not cheap but a great pickup for anyone wanting to to make a playoff run. Ron Perranoski is another player on the trading block. He's an original 61 draftee with an ERA+ the next three seasons of (101, 176, 156) His salary for the '68 season is $7.75 mill. Could be a nice addition to someone's bullpen. In return I'm looking for a pitcher and/or draft picks.

[catcher24]

The Legends confirm the trades. Since Sockeye combined them, I'll break them down again to make it a little easier for Mark:
Trade #1: Legends send Mike Cuellar, Jim Northrup, and the Stingers 2nd round pick in 1970 to the Angels. Legends receive from the Angels Hank Aaron, Duke Sims, Jim Lefebvre and the Angels 4th rounder in 1969.
Trade #2: Legends send to the Angels Gene Alley and the Redbirds #1 draft pick in 1968 (#2 overall); Legends receive from the Angels the Badgers #1 pick in 1968 (#3 overall), Bert Campaneris and Don Buford.

The Legends ownership states: The first trade gave us a great power hitter in Hank Aaron, who can only help our lineup for several years. We think the second trade has shored up our two weakest spots in 1968, second base and shortstop. Campy and Buford give us good speed at the top of the order. We intend to take this team all the way to the championship for our fans this year. We hated to lose Cuellar, Northrup and Alley, but you have to give up quality to get quality in return, and we feel we've obtained the players who can put us over the top this season.

[leecemark]

--The Knights don't have alot of depth this year, but we do have a little extra pitching that could be had at a reasonable price. Gerry Arrigo offers 200+ decent innings for a team needing to round out their rotation - and he does it for minimum wage. John Wyatt brings 50 innings of relief work with a 2.79 ERA. In both cases I'm looking primarily for draft picks. Those picks can be in the future, even several years away.

[catcher24]

The Legends have the following players available for trade. If interested, PM me.
Dick Green, 2B; Jim Lefebvre, 2B; Doug Rader, 3B; Mike Shannon, OF; Art Shamsky, OF; Ollie Brown, OF. I would also discuss Amos Otis and Joe Rudi, along with Ted Abernathy, Dooley Womack and Grant Jackson.

[leecemark]

--The Knights non-tender OFer Tommy Agee, IF Don Wert and P Mel Queen.

[ElHalo]

Wow. For an offseason thread that's two and a half hours old, this sure is busy.

[leecemark]

--I just added in all my raises for 1968 and found myself at 104.75M for 37 players (first round pick Bobby Bonds - sorry to spoil any suspense:happy: - has already been added to the roster). Gary Peters will be the 2nd reigning CYA winner to be non-tendered in our brief history (Drysdale was the first) as losing his sore arm and 5M salary are the most logical way to get under the cap. That puts us at 99.75M for 36 players. We'll need to trade or release somebody else between now and the non-tender deadline just to sign minimum wage players to get the roster up to 40.

[leecemark]

--All players drafted in 1965 are due for salary doubling this offseason. This raise applies even if they did not play last season. Please keep that in mind when adjusting your salaries for 1968.

[mac195]

TRADE FOUR

EB Gold Sox send

- 1st round pick in '70 (from Gold Sox)
- 3rd round pick in '71 (from Gold Sox)
- 2nd round pick in '72 (from Gold Sox)
- 2nd round pick in '73 (from Gold Sox)
- 2nd round pick in '74 (from Gold Sox)

to Sockeye's Angels for

- Jimmy Wynn (1.50, 63-68)
- Jim Northrup (2.75, 64-69)
Yikes! That's an awful lot of picks for one Wynn season and two from Northrup. IMO the 1st and 3rd rounders should have been enough. Throwing in the 3 second round picks makes this an incredibly lopsided deal.

[baseballPAP]

Here goes....
Redbirds FA to be:
Bob Bailey
Andy Etchebarren
Richie Scheinblum
Tommy Davis(non-tender)
Mike de la Hoz(non-tender)
Jorge Rubio

On the block:
Orlando Cepeda(11.75 M, 61 draftee)
Nate Colbert(250K, and 4 big power years left under contract)
Bob Robertson(250K, 2 big power years left)
Tony Horton(1 M, signed through '69 with one good year and one so-so year)
Ray Culp(12.75M, signed through 1970 with 2 very good and one excellent year)

ALSO NEEDS ADDED Mark (DNP in '68)
Bob Robertson
Rudy May
Mike Marshall

After all is said and done, I'm looking at 34 players and 84.5M after raises. Also looking at another under 500 finish most likely :(

[Erik Bedard]

Yikes! That's an awful lot of picks for one Wynn season and two from Northrup. IMO the 1st and 3rd rounders should have been enough. Throwing in the 3 second round picks makes this an incredibly lopsided deal.

Well, since somebody else had already offered a 1st and 2nd for Wynn, I had to add a 3rd to make it work. Then Garry wanted another 1st for Northrup, which I countered with a 2nd and a 3rd. We agreed on two 2nds, since I figured that I could get one season like Northrup's with one second, so two wouldn't be too much of a stretch. Plus, now I've actually got a real chance of competing this year, if Mark is telling the truth about him not being as great as in previous years.

[mac195]

Good luck to you, EB.

Players leaving the Hard Cider:

non-tendered
Jim Bunning (sorry Jim, but my crystal ball tells me you are no longer a $10M a year pitcher)
Billy McCool
Steve Whitaker
Russ Snyder

Class of 62
Ron Taylor
Dennis Menke

Expired contract
Stu Miller
Danny Coombs
Jerry May
Dick Howser
Bill Mazeroski
Roger Maris
Bubba Morton

[J W]

Wow. I had no idea the Angels were going to blow up the team THAT badly. That's a firesale among firesales!!!

The Skipjacks confirm the deal with the Angels but feel like shrimps now compared to the Legends.

Ray Sadecki is on the trading block and can be had for very little. First come, first serve.

[Sockeye]

Wow. I had no idea the Angels were going to blow up the team THAT badly. That's a firesale among firesales!!!

It came down to whether or not this team had a reasonable chance at making the playoffs next season. Many of the key players were free agents to be after the '68 season so there was a one year window in which to compete. Looking at it we felt a 35+ game improvement in one season wasn't realistic. So instead of spending one medeocre year with likely 75-85 wins, then losing a lot of players to free agency and as a result having to rebuild after the '68 season anyway. Competing with 4 more expansion teams trying to do the same thing but with a lot more cap room. Why not skip the medeocre season and get a head start of rebuilding this season. Hopefully by 1969 this we'll have a chance to make a serious playoff run and then contend throughout the 70's with the many early 70's draft picks helping to keep this team at a high level.

Each of the deals made should improve this team in the future. Breaking them down deal by deal.

- 3B Brooks Robinson (18.0, 64-68)
- 2nd round pick in '68 (JW Skipjacks)
- 3rd round pick in '69 (from Hard Cider)

for

- RP Don McMahon (10.0, 65-69)
- SP Ray Sadecki (9.25, 61)
- 1B/OF Ken Harrelson (1.0, 63-68)

McMahon and Sadecki were both way overpriced IMO and no reason to pay that sum of money to them unless they were going to play a part in the teams success down the road. We hated to get rid of Harrelson. He was a tremendous bargain at 1.0 for his career year of '68. He was the deal maker though and we couldn't pass up the 2nd and 3rd rd picks. It was hard to take on Robinson's huge contract knowing he'll be a free agent after next season. It was something that had to be done though or the Skipjacks couldn't have afforded to take McMahon and Sadecki.

- 1st round pick in '68 (from Badgers)
- 2nd round pick in '68 (from Angels)

for

- 1st round pick in '68 (Angels)

There were two players in the '68 draft that we felt would give us 6 very productive seasons. Figured we could drop down from 1st to 3rd overall and get at least one of them while adding the 13th overall pick. Still should be able to get some decent production from that pick.


- Mike Cuellar (4.50, 61)
- Jim Northrup (2.75, 64-69)
- 2nd round pick in '70 (from Stingers)

for

- Hank Aaron (12.00, 61)
- Duke Sims (.75, 64-69)
- Jim Lefebvre (1.50, 65-70)
- 4th round pick in '69 (Angels)

Pitching was the most pressing need for our club. Last or near last in most pitching catagories. Mike Cuellar brings 5 seasons in a row of #1-2 caliber starter performance followed by 3 more seasons of #3-4 caliber starter. As an original '61 draftee he can be a solid part of our team for 8 seasons. Hank Aaron will be sorely missed. Wasn't real impressed by his numbers this year. Perhaps he didn't like the new ballpark or suffered from the team around him. Whatever it was his numbers weren't all that great. Next season looks to be something of a decline from this year. At 12.0 it's a lot of money to pay for that production. Northrup gave us a very solid replacement for Aaron for the 68-69 seasons at a much cheaper price. Would have liked to keep Sims for his 68-69 seasons. He turned out to be something of a deal maker though. Jim Lefebvre was looking at reduced playing time in '68. He gave the Knights added depth at 2B. Add in a second round pick to the deal in a strong '70 draft while giving up a marginal 4th rd pick in the weak '69 draft and it was hard for me not to like this deal.

- Gene Alley (1.00, 63-68)
- 1st round pick in '68 (from Redbirds)

for

- Bert Campaneris (1.50, 64-69)
- Don Buford (1.25) 63-68)
- 1st rd pick in '68 (from Badgers)

Prior to making this trade we learned of the Legends intentions to take the player we were planning to take with the 3rd overall pick. This caused us to need to move back up to the #2 overall pick. That price was Campy and Buford. Campy has one good season in '68 followed by a poor '69 season. Buford has a very nice '68 season then becomes a free agent. This deal will certainly hurt us in '68 but the player we'll be taking with the 2nd overall pick will help us for the next six seasons and allow us to be a better team from 69-73 which wouldn't be the case if not making this deal.

- 1st round pick in '70 (from Gold Sox)
- 3rd round pick in '71 (from Gold Sox)
- 2nd round pick in '72 (from Gold Sox)
- 2nd round pick in '73 (from Gold Sox)
- 2nd round pick in '74 (from Gold Sox)

for

- Jimmy Wynn (1.50, 63-68)
- Jim Northrup (2.75, 64-69)

Jimmy Wynn has one great season left in '68 then becomes a free agent. We may or may not have been able to sign him using the HTD. Jim Northrup gave us two good seasons with an OPS+ of 129/136 in 68-69 then becomes a free agent. This deal will defintely cost us big time in '68 and somewhat in '69. In return though the 1st rd pick in a strong '70 draft should provide us with a key component of our 70's clubs. 2nd rounders in a very strong '72 draft, '73 & '74 should enable us to fill some holes as they a rise to keep us strong. The 3rd rd pick in '71 could be used to give us one good season or provide bench strengh. Since '68 isn't going to be a contending year for us we can swallow that loss knowing it leads to better things ahead for us.

[J W]

That's fine -- I wasn't criticizing. You've made a commitment to the team and that's cool. In a couple seasons I'm going to have to face that situation.

We'll reiterate, Ray Sadecki can be had for peanuts. Any inquiries, please contact JW or Beanie Bill, whichever you prefer.

[catcher24]

I think I can relate to Garry more than anyone else here. I gave up a LOT of talent early on to build for the future - and the future is finally now. And I still have two first round picks in 68 and three in 70, with all of my 67 draftees having five seasons to go (Seaver, mainly). I think, with expansion looming, he did exactly the right thing, and most likely what I would have done had I inherited the team he did. I think he took advantage of poor Dan, though!

[catcher24]

Below are the list of Legends free agents, with reason for the release.

Contracts Expiring:

Dave Ricketts, C
Ron Brand, C
Julio Gotay, 2B
Jim Davenport, INF
Dick Tracewski, INF
Bill Monbouquette, P

1962 Rookies - Become Free Agents

Dan Osinski

Contract Buyouts:

Joe Morgan, 2B (750K)

The Legends currently have a 80.25M salary for 35 players.


Mark, in addition, there are two players who need to be added to my roster that didn't appear in any games in 1968: Amos Otis and Ed Herrmann. I discovered it while updating my salary sheets and comparing with what you sent in the file.

[leecemark]

Well, since somebody else had already offered a 1st and 2nd for Wynn, I had to add a 3rd to make it work. Then Garry wanted another 1st for Northrup, which I countered with a 2nd and a 3rd. We agreed on two 2nds, since I figured that I could get one season like Northrup's with one second, so two wouldn't be too much of a stretch. Plus, now I've actually got a real chance of competing this year, if Mark is telling the truth about him not being as great as in previous years.

--Dan, the Knights can be beat in 1968. I feel about the same way about the team as I did last offseason, which is it is a good, but not dominating team. The big difference between this offseason and last is I'm broke and can't really address the holes in my team. Last year I was able to sign Fregosi and probably wouldn't have won the division or got past the Skipjacks in the playoffs without him. This year I'll be rounding out my roster with strictly minimum wage filler.
--I also had pretty good depth last year and was able to trade to upgrade a shakey bullpen when I was behind the Gamblers at the All Star break. I don't have much to offer up this year to shore up weak areas if the season isn't going so good. The trade you've already made makes you a pretty strong challenger. I wouldn't have given up so much, but it obviously makes you a much better club this season.

[mac195]

Two more players leaving the Hard Cider:

Dennis Menke (1962)
Steve Whitaker (non-tendered)

[Erik Bedard]

Ray Webster will also be non-tendered.

Also, I don't seem to have the salaries for Larry Jackson and Ken Boyer.

If I assign 5M salaries to each of them (and do the arbitration bumps that I forgot earlier), then that puts me at 74.5M, not 62M as I had said earlier.

[baseballPAP]

The Redbirds announce the release of the Baby Bull, Orlando Cepeda. The team wishes him well, and hopes he can catch on with another team. Also parting ways is Jesus Alou, leaving the team with only 29 roster spots filled.

This move, along with the catch of a goof on my spreadsheet that wrongly had Ramon Hernandez making 5M istead of 500K, and the Redbirds may be a player in the FA wars after all, sitting currently at 67.25M after raises.

[leecemark]

--Scott after your initial round of cuts you were at 34. Cepeda and Alou drop it to 32. Was there another group of drops in between that I missed?

[leecemark]

Ray Webster will also be non-tendered.

Also, I don't seem to have the salaries for Larry Jackson and Ken Boyer.

If I assign 5M salaries to each of them (and do the arbitration bumps that I forgot earlier), then that puts me at 74.5M, not 62M as I had said earlier.


--Jackson was a 1961 draftee at 5M. With 7 years of raises he is at 6.75M now. Boyer was signed as a FA (in the 65 offseason? I non-tendered him after 1964). I'll have to do a little digging for his salary - or if he is even still under contract.
--Everyone the salary data can always be retreived, but it isn't always easy. Please keep your roster pages updated.

[baseballPAP]

--Scott after your initial round of cuts you were at 34. Cepeda and Alou drop it to 32. Was there another group of drops in between that I missed?

After checking the roster with my spreadsheet (and finding it WOEFULLY BEHIND..my apologies), I do have 32. The difference is the players that aren't coded for this year, Rudy May, Bob Robertson and Mike Marshall. Also, when re-doing the math, the total is at 60.75M. If you have something to check that against, please do....seems lower than I would have thought, but I can't find a mistake.....{EDIT...I caught it, didn't readjust my sum formula to include an new line added...one which I had Jerry Grote's 6.75M salary on..... 67.5M it is :) }

[leecemark]

--Dan, Ken Boyer is a free agent. He was signed for three years (65-67) at 1.25M in the 1965 free agent auction.

[leecemark]

--After some further evaluation of the roster the Knights pull Gerry Arrigo off the market. With our extreme cap issues a pitcher who contributes 200 decent innings for minimum wage is almost certainly more valueable to me than he would be to any trade partner.
--The only player we are actively trying to deal at this point is John Wyatt. He is a decent reliever, but even his rather modest 1.5M deal doesn't fit under our cap:eek:. He can be had for a third rounder - or if you have a pick in the top half of the draft I'd be willing to give up Wyatt and my 3rd rounder to move up in that round.

[-Kyle-]

I can get all my roster stuff done tomorrow, I am craming for finals now. :)

[catcher24]

Good luck on the finals, Kyle!:gt

[J W]

The Skipjacks announce a deal, sending recently acquired pitcher Ray Sadecki to the Hard Cider for outfielder Rich Reichardt.

Mac, please confirm.

Roster update forthcoming

[Erik Bedard]

Two things:

One, the first-round pick in the deal that sent Jimmy Wynn to the Gold Sox has been changed from 1970 to 1972 due to an oversight on my part.

Two, my FINAL roster figure is 71.25 for 31 players.

[catcher24]

The Legends and Gold Sox have reached agreement on a trade. The Legends will send Jim Nash, Rusty Staub, and Mike Shannon to the Gold Sox. In exchange, the Gold Sox give up their 1973 first round pick.

[Erik Bedard]

Confirmed. Now we're set. And I can't wait for this season.

[leecemark]

--Dan, I've got you at 32. There has been alot of activity in the last couple days, so I'm attaching the rosters as programed to this point (less the two just announced and not yet confirmed trades. BTW do you have an aversion to keeping your first round picks?. You've definatley improved your team, but you'll be dealing picks in the 80s by next year at this rate.

[Erik Bedard]

The discrepancy is that I removed Steve Barber from my roster and never posted the non-tender.

[catcher24]

This most recent trade leaves the Legends at 76.25M for 32 players - and a force in the free agent market!

[Sockeye]

Just a reminder. Both players still on the market. Asking for a 2nd rd pick for either or both can be had for a 1st rd pick.

[J W]

Lew, your 1968 team could rival my 1964 team as best ever. And you got rid of some fat, getting back that 1st round pick! (if you could ever call Nash, Staub, and Shannon fat)

I'm so glad if I make the playoffs I won't have to face you in the first round. :eek:

[J W]

Retired
RHP Bill Graham

Free Agents
SS Ruben Amaro (--) $66-67
RHP Pete Cimino (--) $67
SS Ron Hansen (--) $66-67
RHP Jack Lamabe (--) $66-67
OF Don Lock (--) #62
LHP Dave McNally (--) #62
RF Tony Oliva (--) #62
OF Cap Peterson (--) $67
RHP Jay Ritchie (--) $67
C Hawk Taylor (--) $67

Released
C Larry Haney (--) #66
RHP Minnie Rojas (--) #66
IF Chico Salmon (--) #64
RHP Joe Verbanic (--) #66

-----------------------------
We should be at 30 players, $78 mil after the Sadecki trade.

[J W]

The Skipjacks are looking to plug a hole at 3B for a couple seasons. For some weird reason Beanie Bill envisions incumbent C Joe Torre as the team's 3B for the future.

Because of this, the team is again offering 3B Graig Nettles for trade, and no prospect is untouchable.

We're also looking for a RH CF who can play good defense, a backup infielder/utility man, and a left-handed reliever. Please contact Beanie for details.

[catcher24]

Lew, your 1968 team could rival my 1964 team as best ever. And you got rid of some fat, getting back that 1st round pick! (if you could ever call Nash, Staub, and Shannon fat)

I'm so glad if I make the playoffs I won't have to face you in the first round.

Thanks for the vote of confidence, Jason, but I'm not counting on doing as well as your 1964 team. I've got a decent lineup and excellent staff, but for some reason the only team I ever had that played up to (and in fact, way above) expectations was my 1961 team - a true bunch of over achievers. Nash has a great season in 68, but with Seaver, Tiant, John, Jenkins and Hands in the rotation and my full bullpen, he was expendable. Shannon was a spare part (too bad you didn't post about needing a third baseman before Dan and I made the trade), so no problem sending him elsewhere. I hated to part with Staub, but he's a free agent after 1968. I wouldn't dare put him on my protected list because I might use that spot and then lose him as a free agent anyways - too risky for me. I was able to pick up what I hope will be a great draft pick in return, so I had to make that deal. And I still manage to have Hank Aaron, Reggie Smith and Rick Monday in the OF.

[mac195]

The Skipjacks announce a deal, sending recently acquired pitcher Ray Sadecki to the Hard Cider for outfielder Rich Reichardt.

Mac, please confirm.

Roster update forthcoming

Sorry JW, but I can't confirm that. I stupidly forgot to check his salary before proposing the deal. There's just no way I want to pay Sadecki $9.25 million this year so I'm backing out with sincerest apologies...

[mac195]

Hard Cider have 2B Ron Hunt, and decent starters (Jack Fisher, etc.) availible for trade.

We are looking for a right handed relief pitcher for '68.

[Erik Bedard]

Gold Sox manager Alvin Dark has named longtime minor league manager and good friend Larry Jansen as his pitching coach for 1968. Jansen was previously managing in independent leagues in his home state of Oregon. Jansen will be handed the task of handling a crop of promising young pitchers, including super-prospect Stan Bahnsen and a crew of second- and third-year guys, including Jim Nash, John Hiller, Steve Blass, and Jose Santiago. Gold Sox management released this statement: "We are very happy to announce Larry Jansen as our new pitching coach. We feel that he will be able to bring out the best in our young pitchers as we try and make a run at the playoffs."

[catcher24]

There's just no way I want to pay Sadecki $9.25 million this year so I'm backing out with sincerest apologies...

I'd be borderline on this one if I were in your position Mac. Sadecki's not great, but he gives you 254 IP with a 103 ERA+, 1.16 WHIP (league average: 1.20), and a 3:1 K/BB ratio. I think this guy would probably go for 8M or so in the free agent auction, since he has a couple more decent seasons coming up in 1970 and 1971. But that's just a guess, based on what guys have gone for in the past. If I had the cap room, I'd probably do it, especially if it's only a one year deal left on the contract. But it'd be a tough choice, and I certainly understand and respect your position.

[leecemark]

--I thought that was a horrible deal when Chris signed him, but picking him up for the last year of itwouldn't be so bad. A slightly above average innings eater on a one year deal for 9.25 is okay, although I'd disagree on what he might fetch as a free agent. This is the last year he holds down a regular rotaton slot so a multi-year deal would get you a very expensive swingman for years 2/3/4 (if you wanted that 71 season). While I wouldn't mind paying him that for a year, he isn't the kind of guy I'd want pulling down enough payroll to prevent me from bidding on Perry or McNally though . Not that I'm bidding on anybody.

[catcher24]

I guess when I projected 8M, I was thinking of next year, when his current contract is up. I think with four expansion teams bidding, 8M is pretty realistic. Also, with the contracts guys have been getting in the auctions, I could see it happening even this off season. Perry/McNally I expect to go for 20M+ easy. Morgan won't be far behind - although I personally think that would be overpaying for what his next five seasons hold. But when he comes up again after the 1972 season, I predict he'll set a new record for salary.

[J W]

Well, this is embarrassing...

The Skipjacks retain Ray Sadecki. He is still on the trade block. Don McMahon can be had for little as well but I assume with only one year remaining on his deal, Sadecki is the more attractive option.

[leecemark]

--That 72-73 offseason will yield several potential record contracts. Morgan heading into his historic run plus Seaver, Bench, Jackson and Carew in their primes. I assume the latter 4 will get big HTD opening bids, but 2 of them belong to Scott so he may not be able to set a pre-emtive price on both. Add in some nice second tier stars and some other guys with expiring deals and it will be a good yeat to have some cap space set aside for:twocents:.

[catcher24]

Yeah, I figure Seaver will cost me a lot even with the HD, but I plan on keeping him. Guaranteed if I lose him it will cost someone in the 26M+ range. Too bad his draft year wasn't a little later, so I could make him a franchise player. Interestingly, with the way the new FP rule is written, there won't be any such designations until at least 1973 (drafted in 1970, designation is made after the third season).

Also interestingly, in looking over the encyclopedia, I find that I have never had a 20 game winner. Hope to change that this season!:dance

[leecemark]

--We've had 19 20 game winners in our 7 seasons, by 13 different pitchers. Gary Peters and Camilio Pascaul both have had 3 20 win seasons for the Knights. Jim Bunning has had 2 for the Hard Cider and Joe Horlen 2 for the Skipjacks. Sandy Koufax won 3 CYA, but only had 1 20 win season - a record 27 in his last year. Probably the biggest surprise name amoung the group is Fred Newman, who won 21 for the 1965 Diablos.

[Sockeye]

We are in the market for a cheap 2B, RF, CF that can provide us with some PA's for the '68 season. Preferably 500+ PA's. Quality is not important. Just need to PA's for our bench. Anybody have a player they want to offer us that fits that bill?

[Erik Bedard]

The Gold Sox announce a trade with the Angels. Ron Swoboda and Randy Hundley will go to the Angels in return for Ron Perranoski.

[leecemark]

--For anyone wondering how their team stacks up at this point, I've run a bunch of sims with the rosters as they stand after the early flurry of offseasons moves. The Legends look like a virtual lock as Hulbert champ and best overall team. The Johnson looks very close between the Knights and Gold Sox and the Cartwright the same between the Hard Cider and Diablos. The Skipjacks and the Johnson and Cartwright runners up are the formost wild card contenders.
--The Shoeless Joes have finished ahead of the Skipjacks in a few sims. They definately have the pitching and adding a big bat would put them right in the thick of things. The Angels fared well in the first run of sims, but Sockeye's committment to rebuilding has put them out of the running for now. The Stingers have pretty good pitching, although not on the level of the Joes. They would probably need to add a couple quality bats to contend. The Redbirds and Gamblers aren't that far off the pace in the Johnson. They would need a few moves and a little luck, but they could make things interesting. The Badgers would have to climb over 3 clubs (well 2 for the WC - the Legends are out of reach) that have consistently finished ahead of them in the sims. They would need several significant upgrades and alot of luck to make a move this year.

[Sockeye]

The Gold Sox announce a trade with the Angels. Ron Swoboda and Randy Hundley will go to the Angels in return for Ron Perranoski.

Trade confirmed. Swoboda and Hundley give us some much needed depth.

I still need some PA's at 2B and CF for the '68 season.

[catcher24]

--For anyone wondering how their team stacks up at this point, I've run a bunch of sims with the rosters as they stand after the early flurry of offseasons moves.

Did the Gold Sox have Nash, Staub and Shannon when you ran them, or is that a wild card at this point? Also, Bobby Bonds should make some difference from your end, Mark. He'll probably be able to play about two thirds of the games with 349 PA. And losing Nash and Staub could make some difference to the Legends as well. Shannon won't have much effect as he was pretty much a spare part anyway. And adding Andy Messersmith should do something for the Angels. Actually, there seems to be an unusual number of rookies in this draft who could make significant contributions their first year. I think it's going to be a VERY interesting season, maybe better than 1967 which was the best so far.

[-Kyle-]

Drysdale, Mantle, and Curt Flood are availible for trade.

[catcher24]

I finally got around to updating the encyclopedia. I have uploaded all of the updated files to the website, including all the 1967 season info, the record lists, etc. in case anyone is interested.

It was a pretty slow year for records, individual or team. Of the records I track, only one season individual record was set/tied; one season team record; eight single game individual records; three single game team records. The records were:

Season Record - Individual

Triples: 19 - Lou Brock Stingers Ties the record set by George Altman in 1962

Season Record - Team

Innings Pitched: 1548.2 - Hard Cider Breaks old record of 1539.2 set by the Cannons.

Single Game Record - Individual

Batting
Triples: 2 - Tied by nine different players.
Runs: 5 - Roger Maris, Norm Cash Hard Cider Ties the record. Incidentally, both of them tied the record in the same game when the Cider scored 25 runs.
Hit by Pitch: 2 - Tied by eight players.
Strikeouts (batter): 5 - Mel Stottlmyre, Gamblers Ties the record.

Pitching
Innings Pitched: 12 - Dick Hughes Hard Cider Breaks old record of 11.2 (Dennis Ribant)
Runs Allowed: 14 - Sammy Ellis Diablos Breaks old Record of 12 (Diego Segui)
Earned Runs Allowed: 14 - Sammy Ellis Diablos Breaks old Record of 12 (Diego Segui)
Home Runs Allowed: 6 - Juan Pizarro Badgers Breaks old record of 5 (Bobby Bolin)

Single Game Records - Team


Batting
Triples: 5 - Angels Breaks old record of 4.
Hit By Pitch: 4 - Stingers Breaks old record of 3.

Pitching
Home Runs Allowed: 6 - Badgers Ties the record.

[mac195]

Well, this is embarrassing...

The Skipjacks retain Ray Sadecki. He is still on the trade block. Don McMahon can be had for little as well but I assume with only one year remaining on his deal, Sadecki is the more attractive option.

Feeling a bit guilty about backing out of the Sadecki deal. HC will offer the same deal for McMahon, if JW is willing...

[leecemark]

--The sims included the Staub/Nash?Shannon deal - and also Bonds for me, but no other rookies since with the probable exception of Messersmith I've got no idea where they will end up. I haven't run any with the Perranoski deal, but he isn't much of a difference maker in 1968.
--Lew, you edit out the players from the doormats on the career leaderboards? Ruben Amaro had 21 triples for the 1962 Phillies and thus the single season record in my version of the encyclopedia.

[catcher24]

--Lew, you edit out the players from the doormats on the career leaderboards?

Yes, I don't include any of the doormat records. They would also hold the records for most runs allowed in a game and a couple of other of that type record, but since the lineup was CM set and run, and it was the same players for three consecutive years, I've never included them. The record you mention is a good example of why - that would've been the 1961 Ruben Amaro's second season, and shouldn't have happened. Without his playing on a doormat team, he never would've had enough PA to come close - he only had 447 real life PA, and 9 triples, in 1961. With the 125% allowed in 1962, his top PA would've been 559. He actually had 743, or 166% of real life. Incidentally, had we used the 1962 Phillies instead of re-using the 1961 guys, Amaro had only 265 PA and NO triples.

I've also always looked with a rather jaundiced eye on any records set from 1961 to 1963, because of the doormats. I do include those records, but I sincerely believe that without the doormats, and with 12 human managers, several of those huge 1961 offensive records wouldn't exist.

[J W]

OK, the Skipjacks will trade Don McMahon to the Hard Cider for Rick Reichardt. As a token of good faith, we will also send the Hard Cider our 3rd round pick in 1970 (originally Gold Sox).

[leecemark]

--Many 1961 seasons do still hold their places atop the leaderboards (less true for 62-3). In fact, 9 of the top 10 seasons in RC/27 are from that single season. Jim Gentile is going to hold ALOT of single season records for a long time. Nobody has come close to matching his power stats since.
--That is only partly due to the doormats though. Real life 1961 saw an unusal amount of career years and even historic seasons (Gentile wasn't the best hitter in real life, but did have a career year - 181 OPS+! - and got a boost by moving to Tiger Stadium with its short RF porch). We've had a real couple teams do worse than some of the doormats - although never 3 in the same year like we did those first 3 seasons.

[J W]

How is Jim Gentile doing btw, Mark? I assume he's gotten a lot more attention in this timeline!

[leecemark]

--Jim had a great time back with the Knights last season. He is coaching firstbase for us and remains very popular with the fans. He'll have a job with the ballclub as long as he wants it. Although his career was short, the Knights PR department is planning a big push for Gentile for the CKL Hall of Fame when the time comes to get that started!

[leecemark]

--Just wanted to point out that there is opportunity for lots of change in the balance of the league between now and Opening Day. Some of the teams that didn't fare so well in the early sims could improve alot with a move or two. Signing one of the front line FA pitchers (McNally and Perry) to replace a shakey 5th starter on your rotation could save a bunch of runs allowed. Several teams in the middle of the pack have holes at 3B and FA Ken McMullen has a very nice season (several in fact) there. Tony Oliva will be a big bat for somebody. There are some additonal guys who aren't quite at that level, but could make a big difference a particular club with a gaping hole at their spot.
--Thats not even taking additional trades (or the rookie draft) into account. The offseason has already seen some big changes and its only a few days old!

[jkc32]

--Attached is the first draft of the 1968 rosters. Players with expiring contracts have not yet been removed. Please advise me of those players from your team so I canmake the edits. There will also be some missing players. Anybody not active in 1968 won't show up. If you have any players under contract who didn't play in the majors in 1968, but whom you'd like to keep please let me know and I'll add them to your roster. If you find any other mistakes let me know about those too.

Please add the following players back to the Shoeless Roster:

Willie Montanez
Cito Gaston
Ron Reed

[catcher24]

--Many 1961 seasons do still hold their places atop the leaderboards (less true for 62-3). In fact, 9 of the top 10 seasons in RC/27 are from that single season. Jim Gentile is going to hold ALOT of single season records for a long time. Nobody has come close to matching his power stats since.
Which is precisely why I take all those 1961 records with a grain of salt. The players did what they did - especially Gentile and Maris - but the doormat's horrid pitchers threw MANY more innings than they possibly could have, even if managed by a human, and they were truly horrid. Your Knights played the Phillies 24 times, and as examples: Jim Owens, 218 IP (107 real life), 4.73 ERA (second best pitcher on that Phillies staff, by the way); Dallas Green, 188 IP (128), 5.78 ERA. So, between facing the worst staff in CKL history 24 times and the short right field porch at Tiger Stadium, Gentile took huge advantage
.
--That is only partly due to the doormats though. Real life 1961 saw an unusal amount of career years and even historic seasons (Gentile wasn't the best hitter in real life, but did have a career year - 181 OPS+! - and got a boost by moving to Tiger Stadium with its short RF porch). We've had a real couple teams do worse than some of the doormats - although never 3 in the same year like we did those first 3 seasons.

I agree. We picked the first expansion year, and a high HR year, to begin. Everything worked out well for Gentile and he took full advantage. But when nine of the tip ten RC/27 seasons occur in one season, and the greatest seasons of Mays, Yaz, F. Robinson and others can't crack into it, you know something more was going on. It would be interesting to replay that with all human managers to see what difference it would make for the doormats, but that isn't going to happen. When we do begin our HOF, I'll have to look closely at Gentile. Very short career, but the all time greatest season in CKL history, one other excellent season, one decent season might do it, I don't know.

[jkc32]

I'm looking to acquire a few big bats for this season at any/all of 1B, 2B, SS, and/or OF. A high OPS guy to leadoff would be nice too. I can offer pitching and/or picks and can also take on some salary if need be. Shoot me a PM if you think we can help each other.

[mac195]

Also on the market:

http://home.onemain.com/~debrick/images/jc1.jpg

OF Johnny Callison, on a $5M/year contract through '69... AV/0, EX arm at every outfield position in '68... OPS+ 120 in '68, 117 in '69. Good player... but there just won't be room for him in the HC outfield with Dick Allen moving out there.

Still availible: 2B Ron Hunt, SP Jack Fisher. (both on last year of contract)

[baseballPAP]

The Shoeless Joes and my Redbirds have completed a deal.....
JKC gets Willie Horton, in exchange for the Joes' 2nd round pick in the upcoming draft, and Jim Maloney.

~S

[leecemark]

--Horton gives a pretty big boost to the Shoeless attack. Willie the Wonder has his best year in 68. It helps with the Redbirds rebuilding too. Maloney is back for a good year in 69 while Horton will be a free agent. The draft is fairly deep this year too, so the 2nd rounder should yield a nice player.

[mac195]

HC's tough veteran 2nd baseman, Ron Hunt, will be moving to the Joes in exchange for their '69 3rd round pick. The departure of Hunt, who is mending nicely after his collision with Knight catcher Bill Freehan in the CKL championship series, will make room for up-and-comer Mike Andrews in the HC lineup.

[leecemark]

--Thats 2 nice moves in one morning for the Joes. The market has been unusally active this offseason. Our newest owner seems to be setting the example!

[leecemark]

--Max of the Wasp Stingers is giving up his team due to time constraints. One of our prospective expansion owners, AutographCollector, will be assuming the franchise. New name and possibily park to be announced before Opening Day. Welcome and Good Luck, Tony!
--Attached are team rosters updated through the Hunt deal.

[leecemark]

HC's tough veteran 2nd baseman, Ron Hunt, will be moving to the Joes in exchange for their '69 3rd round pick. The departure of Hunt, who is mending nicely after his collision with Knight catcher Bill Freehan in the CKL championship series, will make room for up-and-comer Mike Andrews in the HC lineup.

--I wish Freehan were my catcher, but that collison came in the Divisional playoff with the Legends.

[jkc32]

Shoeless Cuts:

Joe Pepitone, 1B (1962 draftee)
Julian Javier, 2B (Contract expired)
Clete Boyer, 3B (Contract expired)
Max Alvis, 3B (1962 draftee)
Gary Bell, P (Contract expired)
Joe Gibbon, P (Contract expired)
Bob Veale, P (1962 draftee)
Joe Sparma, P (Contract expired)

[leecemark]

--I cleaned up and updated the Stingers roster for their new owner. Those changes plus the others that occured today are reflected in the attached team rosters. With most teams non-tenders already submitted I've also attached the free agents lists (at least a few additions to come I'm sure).

[catcher24]

Sorry I'm late in checking the thread today. Lots of personal items to attend to today. Sorry to see Max go, but a hearty welcome to Tony, the new Stingers owner.

I see Joe is trying to push both Jason and me out of the playoffs. Sure can't say as I'm sorry to see him departing for the new division in 1969 :waving, but it most certainly will eliminate what I think could be some pretty exciting three way races in the Hulbert in 69 and 70. But who's to say that Ed won't have the Badgers in the thick of things pretty soon, too?:shrug:

[AutographCollector]

Thanks for the welcome Mark & Lew!!

[buppers]

But who's to say that Ed won't have the Badgers in the thick of things pretty soon, too?:shrug:

I'll be doing my best. After all, I finished 3rd when our beloved commisioner thought I'd finish last for 1967 :) Hope to make a few moves soon but the way things are shaping up, I'll probably be 3rd for a couple years:noidea

Gotta let "real life" interfere a little. I'm fighting it as much as possible, but gotta earn to have home, heat, food and most important Internet Access :happy:

[buppers]

Badgers cut the following players

Wayne Causey - 61 draft
Don Minchner - 61 draft
Roger Repoz - 64 draft
Bucke Brandon - 66 draft
Ted Davidson - 65 draft
Al Jackson - 61 draft
Pete Mikkelson - 64 draft
Dave Wickersham - 61 draft


8 players cut, 10.5 million dollars saved

[leecemark]

--That makes the Badgers a serious player in the free agent market anyway. Wilhelm will make someone an awfully good reliever, although he was quite a luxury item at what Ed would have had to pay to keep him. Couple of those other cuts might be usefull to somebody. At least one of them was a surprise to me.

[mac195]

Hard Cider also non-tender OF Russ Snyder.

[leecemark]

--I think the Diablos and the Hornets are the only teams that haven't made cuts yet - and they have almost 2 weeks left before the non-tender deadline. Of course, addtional cuts by other teams may be made up until the 1st if you find players who no longer fit into your plans.
--Even without cuts, the Hornets have the fewest players under contract. The Stingers had nearly half their roster at the end of their deals and the Hornets inherit only 22 - with just 9 of them being position players. Tony will have the opportunity to build that lineup from the ground up. The pitching is in much better shape with 4 future HoF SP in Palmer (injured this year), Neikro, Sutton and Hunter plus solid vet Claude Osteen and promising youngster Rick Wise. The Badgers and Hard Cider have the next most open roster spots with 26 players apiece under contract.
--The Diablos have the most players under contract at 37 but, as previously mentioned, have yet to non-tender anyone. The Knights are next at 36 - and we are going to have to trim at least another 1M just to be able to sign the minimum wage guys to fill our 40 man roster.

[-Kyle-]

FA with expiring contracts

LF/1B Tommy McCraw (.25m, 65-67)
RHP Phil Ortega (.25m, 65-67)
RHP Jim Cosman (.25m 67)
PH Joey Amalfitano (.25m 67)
SS Bobby Wine (.25m 67)

Leaving due to non tender (drafted)

OF Tony Coniglario (1.75M 64 Draft, Trade with Gold Sox)
2B Jerry Adair (2.25m, 61 Draft Trade with Legends)
C Buck Rodgers (1.50m, 61 Draft)

Leaving due to 6 year rule

RHP Gaylord Perry (2.75m, 62 Draft) :think: maybe
2B Cookie Rojas (1m, 62 Draft)

--
when are we going to be able to offer HTD contracts?

[catcher24]

I also see what is a surprise to me on the Badgers cuts. Anyone looking for a good bat might want to check that list closely....

[leecemark]

FA with expiring contracts

when are we going to be able to offer HTD contracts?

--I'd like to have that info all compiled and ready to go up on the auction thread no later than 24 hours before it gets underway - which isn't until Feb 15. You can let me know as soon as you wish though. I'll edit them into the post on page 1 with the list of 1962 draftees.

[buppers]

Please see edited list.

Ed

[Sockeye]

Sockeye's Angels send

Gene Alley
Jim Ray
Ray Washburn

to Shoeless Joes for

1st rd pick in '71
3rd rd pick in '72

[jkc32]

Shoeless confirms.

Still looking for a big bat at 1B and/or OF who hits RH well. Willing to move picks and/or pitching to get the right player(s).

[Sockeye]

Still shopping Brooks Robinson....3rd round pick takes him!

[jkc32]

Shoeless is looking to move several solid starting pitchers. The Joe's are looking for 1968 help at RP and hitting (all positions, but must hit RH well). Future picks are also welcomed.

1968 stats
George Culver - 3.22 (ERA), 1.38 (WHIP), 8 (HR Allowed), 226 (IP), $0.50, 1966 (Yr drafted)
Dick Kelley - 2.76, 1.34, 4, 98, $0.50, 1964
Ken Johnson - 3.47, 1.26, 10, 135, $2.50, 1961
Al McBean - 3.58, 1.35, 10, 198, $2.75, 1961

[-Kyle-]

Also, Mantle (142) and/or Flood (111) are availible for draft picks down the stretch.

[-Kyle-]

Don Drysdale (128 ERA+ w/ 200+ IP) is also for sale.

[catcher24]

Legends management is pleased to announce that we have reached agreement with our newest owner, Tony, and have completed a trade with the newly christened A C Hornets. The Legends will send our 1st round pick in the 1968 draft (#12 overall) along with Doug Rader, Jim Lefebvre, Grant Jackson, Ollie Brown, Ed Herrmann and Dooley Womack to the Hornets. In exchange the Legends will receive the Hornets 1968 first round pick (#5 overall) and the Hornets #1 pick in 1972.

Tony, please confirm.

This leaves the Legends at 26 players, 71.75M.

[AutographCollector]

Legends management is pleased to announce that we have reached agreement with our newest owner, Tony, and have completed a trade with the newly christened A C Hornets. The Legends will send our 1st round pick in the 1968 draft (#12 overall) along with Doug Rader, Jim Lefebvre, Grant Jackson, Ollie Brown, Ed Herrmann and Dooley Womack to the Hornets. In exchange the Legends will receive the Hornets 1968 first round pick (#5 overall) and the Hornets #1 pick in 1972.

Tony, please confirm.

This leaves the Legends at 26 players, 71.75M.

I as the new owner of the new franchise team, "AC's Hornets" do acknowledge that this trade is in fact true. :)

[AutographCollector]

*So if a free agent is on the free agent roster that Mark posted, can I just claim them by posting here?*
If so... I would like to pick up Bill Melton & Tony Oliva.

[Erik Bedard]

Nope. Melton is a rookie, so he'll be eligible to be selected in the rookie draft. There's an auction the week after the draft for the "Premium" FAs, and after that, there's a secondary auction for everybody left. Once that's over, you can claim anybody you want.

[-Kyle-]

Legends management is pleased to announce that we have reached agreement with our newest owner, Tony, and have completed a trade with the newly christened A C Hornets. The Legends will send our 1st round pick in the 1968 draft (#12 overall) along with Doug Rader, Jim Lefebvre, Grant Jackson, Ollie Brown, Ed Herrmann and Dooley Womack to the Hornets. In exchange the Legends will receive the Hornets 1968 first round pick (#5 overall) and the Hornets #1 pick in 1972.

Tony, please confirm.

This leaves the Legends at 26 players, 71.75M.

Psst...I think the Legends are looking for Mike Schmidt.:hide:

[AutographCollector]

--Welcome to the CKL 1967-8 offseason. These are the tenative dates for offseason activities.
Non-tender deadline: midnight EST on Friday, February 1
Rookie Draft: 8PM EST on Friday, February 8
Free Agent Auction: 8PM EST on Friday, February 15
Rosters filled and profiles submitted: midnight EST on Thursday, February 21
Opening Day: Friday, February 22
--If these dates are a problem for anyone please speak up ASAP.

Well Mark, as you & I spoke about earlier... all of the above dates are an issue with me as I work nights from 3:00p.m.-11:30p.m.

[Sockeye]

Mike Adamson (contract expired)
Luis Alcaraz (contract expired)
George Altman (retired)
Steve Bailey (contract expired)
Lee Bales (retired)
Bob Barton (contract expired)
Bo Belinsky (contract expired)
Dennis Bennett (contract expired)
Walt Bond (retired)
Ty Cline (contract expired)
Tony Cloninger (non tendered)
Rocky Colavito (contract expired)
Al Ferrara (non tendered)
Marty Martinez (contract expired)
Jim Pagliaroni (non tendered)
Orlando Pena (non tendered)
Johnny Podres (contract expired)
Hal Reniff (retired)
Brooks Robinson ($9 buyout)
Wes Stock (retired)
Fred Whitfield (free agent)

15 players = $28.50

[baseballPAP]

15 players = $28.50

:eek::eek::eek:

[catcher24]

Psst...I think the Legends are looking for Mike Schmidt.

Who, MEEE? :eek: How could you even think such a thing? I don't know what I've ever done that might cause anyone to think like that....:rofl:


15 players = $28.50

Talk about rebuilding a team. I think someone is going to be very active in the free agent market.:nod: I've got my eye on a couple of free agents, but if Garry has his eye on them as well, I can pretty much forget about them...:rolleyes: And how many picks did you end up with in this year's rookie draft, Garry - about a dozen?:laugh

[Sockeye]

Who, MEEE? :eek: How could you even think such a thing? I don't know what I've ever done that might cause anyone to think like that....:rofl:




Talk about rebuilding a team. I think someone is going to be very active in the free agent market.:nod: I've got my eye on a couple of free agents, but if Garry has his eye on them as well, I can pretty much forget about them...:rolleyes: And how many picks did you end up with in this year's rookie draft, Garry - about a dozen?:laugh

Only gained three picks in the '68 draft while swapping our 1st overall pick for the Redbirds 2nd overall pick. The picks added are as follows

2nd round pick in '68 (from JW Skipjacks)
3rd round pick in '68 (from JW Skipjacks)
4th round pick in '68 (from EB Gold Sox)

[leecemark]

--I admire your commitment to rebuilding Garry, but you've got your work cut our for you to put a team on the field for 1968:hp. The demolition of the Angels can't even get you the top pick next year. With the expansion teams joining us the worse record this year only nets the 5th pick. Still, you should be well positioned to be a contender for most of the 70s.

[catcher24]

Yes, you and I think a lot alike Garry (boy is that scary :eek:). In looking over your roster I see that you've accumulated quite a number of extra picks in the early 70s. Great plan, IMHO, and just what I did about six seasons ago. Good luck to you, and don't worry about the record the next couple of years. I took a pummeling for a couple of seasons, but it turned around in a hurry once those draft picks started developing.

[leecemark]

--I had been running sims after each significant change to the rosters to see how the teams stacked up. There won't be any more till after the free agent signings though - the Angels don't have enough players to form a functional team now (though I do have 16 not 15 for you Sockeye - please compare your roster to the attached). The Hornets didn't really have one either, but they could be patched together enough to run sims. Not so the Angels with only 5 pitchers under contract.

[Sockeye]

--I had been running sims after each significant change to the rosters to see how the teams stacked up. There won't be any more till after the free agent signings though - the Angels don't have enough players to form a functional team now (though I do have 16 not 15 for you Sockeye - please compare your roster to the attached). The Hornets didn't really have one either, but they could be patched together enough to run sims. Not so the Angels with only 5 pitchers under contract.

Bernie Allen is the cause. I don't have him as a member of our team. Don't think he was on the Cannons original roster when I took over the team. Unless Allen was added and the Cannons roster wasn't updated. At any rate I'll be glad to take him. Can use the PA's at 2B next season. Could you tell me what his salary/contract statis is? He's a '62 draftee so he might be a free agent now anyways. My guess is though he was picked up as a free agent and signed to a 1 year deal at the start of '67. Which would make him a free agent either way.

[-Kyle-]

Who, MEEE? :eek: How could you even think such a thing? I don't know what I've ever done that might cause anyone to think like that....:rofl:

pffft...you were taking advantage of him...:rofl:...no bitterness from me at all :D.

[leecemark]

--Bernie Allen was a Legends draftee in 1962. That was the only season he appeared in a game for any team. Pending further info I'm going to assume he is a free agent this year. You can probably sign him at a pretty reasonable price though. he hardly seems like a guy who will inspire a bidding war.

[-Kyle-]

The Gamblers would like to announce a quickly finished trade with the Hard Cider. The Gamblers send Don Drysdale, on the last year of his contract to the Hard Cider for their 2nd round pick this draft.

[Erik Bedard]

--Bernie Allen was a Legends draftee in 1962. That was the only season he appeared in a game for any team. Pending further info I'm going to assume he is a free agent this year. You can probably sign him at a pretty reasonable price though. he hardly seems like a guy who will inspire a bidding war.

He would be a FA anyway.

[mac195]

The Gamblers would like to announce a quickly finished trade with the Hard Cider. The Gamblers send Don Drysdale, on the last year of his contract to the Hard Cider for their 2nd round pick this draft.
Confirmed.

[-Kyle-]

I have the best PH of all time this year. Gates Brown has a 234 OPS+ 67 games this year and can be had for a 3rd rounder if someone needs that little boost in the playoffs.

[mac195]

I have the best PH of all time this year. Gates Brown has a 234 OPS+ 67 games this year and can be had for a 3rd rounder if someone needs that little boost in the playoffs.
I will take Brown for my '68 3rd round pick.

[-Kyle-]

I will take Brown for my '68 3rd round pick.

Haha alright. Confirmed.

[Erik Bedard]

He's 5 PA away from not qualifying. Not a guy I'd give a 3rd-rounder for.

[mac195]

Brown will be batting cleanup for the HC in the playoffs.

[Erik Bedard]

Right, but that third-round pick could have been used to get a guy who would be instrumental in getting me into the playoffs. You don't have that problem, of course, but the Johnson should be really close this year, and I need all the help I can get.

[leecemark]

Brown will be batting cleanup for the HC in the playoffs.


--Have to admire your confidence - but I guess you have reason to expect to be there. It will be a major upset when (if?) you come up short for the first time.
--Brown could be the difference maker in a short series and a third rounder isn't THAT valuable. I might have made the deal myself had I been online in time, although I have never been big on the small sample size all stars. You are the master of that talent pool:bowdown:. Maybe thats why you've always been so tough in the postseason:ughh.

[mac195]

Brown will definately contribute to winning some games in the regular season as well. A pinch hitter that good might be worth 5 extra wins.

[mac195]

--Have to admire your confidence - but I guess you have reason to expect to be there. It will be a major upset when (if?) you come up short for the first time.
--Brown could be the difference maker in a short series and a third rounder isn't THAT valuable. I might have made the deal myself had I been online in time, although I have never been big on the small sample size all stars. You are the master of that talent pool:bowdown:. Maybe thats why you've always been so tough in the postseason:ughh.

I am feeling a lot better about the HC's chances now, with the addition of Drysdale, McMahon and Brown. If we can pick up a good 3Bman (and there are serveral availible in the free agent pool) we should be able to field a pretty strong team this year.

[leecemark]

--Once I ran a bunch of sims using different lineups for the 68 Tigers in a league made up of 60s and 70s champions. As a experiment I used Gates as the Tigers SS in place of perhaps the worst hitter ever to hold down a (semi) regular job with a pennant winner - Ray Oyler - in half the sims (ignoring playing time). I wanted to see what sort of balance you'd get by trading a good glove, no hit SS for a terrible glove (Brown is, of course, not a SS and was awfull even in LF) with a great bat. Brown put up some Ruthian seasons, but the Tigers record was more or less the same wether he or Oyler were in the lineup. His defense was bad enough to nuetralize the league's best bat. Doesn't have much to do with this deal, but I found it to be one of my more interesting experiments.

[mac195]

Well, we probably won't use Brown at shortstop, but we might have to move Dick Allen to 3rd in the playoffs, which is almost as bad.

[Erik Bedard]

The Gold Sox announce a trade that will help us plug up a glaring hole for 1968, acquiring Al Worthington from the Gamblers for their 1972 third-round pick.

[-Kyle-]

The Gold Sox announce a trade that will help us plug up a glaring hole for 1968, acquiring Al Worthington from the Gamblers for their 1972 third-round pick.

Confirmed.

[leecemark]

--The Knights are concerned that improvements by several clubs have put us in a position where it is going to be very difficult to defend our title. Accordingly some of our veteran players are available for the right price. Front office sources say preliminary talks with several teams are underway with franchise player Willie Mays reportedly available.
--Pitcher Bobby Bolin is healthy after missing last year and primed for a big season. We think he might fetch a good price. Dick McAuliffe is another player who might be available for a good enough offer. Actually anybody whose best years aren't ahead of him can be had.
--We haven't given up on the season and none of these players would be cheap. That said, all offers will get serious consideration.

[AutographCollector]

--The Knights are concerned that improvements by several clubs have put us in a position where it is going to be very difficult to defend our title. Accordingly some of our veteran players are available for the right price. Front office sources say preliminary talks with several teams are underway with franchise player Willie Mays reportedly available.
--Pitcher Bobby Bolin is healthy after missing last year and primed for a big season. We think he might fetch a good price. Dick McAuliffe is another player who might be available for a good enough offer. Actually anybody whose best years aren't ahead of him can be had.
--We haven't given up on the season and none of these players would be cheap. That said, all offers will get serious consideration.

Mark,
My team GM will be contacting your GM at the winters meetings.

[-Kyle-]

--The Knights are concerned that improvements by several clubs have put us in a position where it is going to be very difficult to defend our title. Accordingly some of our veteran players are available for the right price. Front office sources say preliminary talks with several teams are underway with franchise player Willie Mays reportedly available.
--Pitcher Bobby Bolin is healthy after missing last year and primed for a big season. We think he might fetch a good price. Dick McAuliffe is another player who might be available for a good enough offer. Actually anybody whose best years aren't ahead of him can be had.
--We haven't given up on the season and none of these players would be cheap. That said, all offers will get serious consideration.

:eek: Your rebuilding too? Your just gonna let EB win the division?

[Erik Bedard]

I'll believe it when Mays is traded. Not until then.

BTW, what is Worthington's salary?

[leecemark]

--Mays is the key piece. If I get a great deal for him, then the other smaller moves would follow. If nobody comes up big for Mays then I'll take my chances in the division this year. 1968 has been my target year for rebuilding, but with nobody clearly better (in the division - the Legends are clearly the class of the league) I have been reluctant to break things up as planned.
-- Seeing all the dealing going on that is improving the competiton while my cap woes keep me from doing anything has me wavering though. The Gold Sox and Kinghts are pretty even right now, but whichever one of us comes out on top of the Johnson will have a tough time of it in the playoffs. Of course, you do only need to get hot at the right time to beat a better team in the playoffs. I've been on the worng end of THAT a few times:eek:.

[catcher24]

I've been on the worng end of THAT a few times

Believe me, I feel your pain. I just haven't had as much of it.

[buppers]

Badgers trade Hoyt Wilhelm to Shoeless Joes for their 2nd round draft pick in 1970.
Look for confirmation today.

Ed

[jkc32]

Badgers trade Hoyt Wilhelm to Shoeless Joes for their 2nd round draft pick in 1970.
Look for confirmation today.

Ed

Shoeless confirms.

[leecemark]

--Knights owner M.D. Leece made a rare public statement on the team today, annoucing that discussions on a possible Willie Mays deal are officially closed, saying "Willie Mays will retire a Knight. I usually don't interefere in the decisions of our baseball people but Willie is the exception to the rule. I've talked directly to Mr Mays and made arrangements with him to remain a part of our organization not just till the end of his playing days, but for as long as he wishes. I've also let Smokey know that the idea of giving up on this season is not something I'm comfortable with. Giving up a little for this year to make us better in the future is one time, but tearing the team down to a non-competitive level is not acceptable."

[J W]

:applaud:

It'd be a sad day when Aaron and Mays are traded in the same offseason.

[leecemark]

--The Knights release John Wyatt, dropping us to 34 players at 97.25M . That will be35 at 98.25 after adding our first round pick - leaving a grand total of 1,75 K to sign 5 players to fill out the roster.
--The deadline for for nontendering/releasing/buying out players without retaining responsibility for their salaries in next Friday, 01 Feb. The Diablos still haven't made any cuts and the Hornets, I believe, have a couple drops to make. Additions or subtractions from their non-tender list by any other team are, of course, still okay.

[leecemark]

--I'll be posting the Rookie Draft thread shortly after the close of the non-tender period Friday night. The live portion of the draft is not scheduled until Friday the 8th, so there will be no clock. It would be nice to get as many picks as possible in at a more leisurely pace though to ensure everybody gets to make at least their first round pick in person. We'll be going through the end of the third round on the 8th so the more picks we get in early the less of a marathon session that will be:happy:.

[catcher24]

We'll be going through the end of the third round on the 8th so the more picks we get in early the less of a marathon session that will be

I love those marathon sessions. It gives me time to catch up on my baseball library :lookitup a bit while waiting for me next pick!:)

[AutographCollector]

From AP Reports:
AC's Hornets have announced that they have released Norm Siebern and Chuck Hinton. This freed up approximately 8.5 million dollars.

[ElHalo]

The Diablos release...

Johnny Roseboro, Ken McMullen, Ed Kranepool, Rickey Clark, Sammy Ellis, Frank Bertaina, Fred Gladding, Jim Price, Fred Valentine, Lee Thomas, Bob Hendley, and Chuck Hartenstein.

I show 27 players on the roster for $79 mill.

The big name here is Johnny Roseboro; he's been my catcher for the entire tenure of my team, basically, but I can't justify spending almost $10 mill on the 81 OPS+ he puts up the next couple of years.

[leecemark]

--Roseboro is the CKL career leader in games caught. His 880 is roughly 100 more than anybody else. Earl Battey, Elston Howard and Joe Torre are with half a dozen games ofother for 2nd place, with Torre the only one of the 3 still holding down a regular job. At 35, Roseboro is not be the player he once was - but he still may be the best of a sad lot of free agent catchers and figures to find a job with someone. He should remain at the top of the list for a couple more years anyway.

[catcher24]

I was surprised to see that Bill Freehan wasn't even in the top 10, so I expanded the list a bit and he's #11 in games as catcher - but he's 138 back (a full season at catcher) of Tim McCarver, who holds down the tenth spot. I imagine he'll eventually close in on the top spot, since almost everyone ahead of him except McCarver is either retired or a part timer, and Freehan plays pretty much full time through 1973. But he is already ninth all time on the assists list, and depending on how many try to steal on him this season could go as high as sixth by the end of 1968. Great arm back there!:nod:

[leecemark]

--Roseboro should manage to find a semi-regular job the next 2 years and keep the top spot through 1969. Joe Torre is probably the Skipjacks #1 catcher through 1970 and could pass him that season. Tim McCarver has 2 more years as a full time starter and should vault up the list, but is a backup starting in 1970 and is unlikley to end up catching as many games as Roseboro or Torre - at least not until after many years of hanging around. So Freehan is likely to hold the record by some point in the early 70s.

[leecemark]

1B: Norm Cash 1045 (and likely to hold for a long time)
2B: Jerry Lumpe:eek: (Maz likely to pass this year)
3B: Ron Santo 1138 (and likley to hold a long time)
SS: Maury Wills 1136 (over a seasons worth ahead of the pack)
LF: Carl Yastrzemski 832 (300 ahead of the pack)
CF: Willie Mays 1132 (4 ahead of Pinson)
RF: Roberto Clemente 1037
P: Ron Perranoski 488 (and likley to hold for awhile)
Overall: Hank Aaron 1165 (several seasons in CF keep him off the top spot in RF)

Other members of the 1,000 game club
Frank Robinson 1132 (LF/Rf)
Harmon Killebrew 1088 (3B/LF/1B)
Billy Williams 1087 (RF/LF)
Yaz 1069 (couple years in CF)
Bill White 1043 (1B)
Eddie Mathews 1032 (3B)
Curt Flood 1027 (CF)
Rocky Colavito 1013 (Rf/LF)

[J W]

Cool. Now what are their gray and black ink scores? :D

[catcher24]

Most starts by a pitcher, Juan Marichal with 252, four ahead of Don Drysdale. Drysdale could pass him this year, but Marichal would retake the lead next year anyway since this is Drysdale's last year as a regular starter. Marichal may eventually get overtaken by Gibson, who starts regularly in 74/75 while Marichal is pretty much done with a total of 11 starts over the two years in real life. Jim Kaat will eventually pass them both, and will probably hold the top spot for a long time, until one of the young guns like Jenkins or Seaver passes him.

And I would bet a year's pay that no one could tell me the fielding percentage leader at SS counting players with 200 games played at SS. BTW, you won't find it on the web site encyclopedia, since the file there is set for 420+ games played at SS.

Mark, I show Santo with 1128 games at 3B. Is my file messed up somewhere?

[Erik Bedard]

Gene Alley? His is about .976, the leader shown on the website is Aparicio at .974.

[leecemark]

--No, just a typo on Santo. Alley is #2. I'm pretty sure Lew is right that nobody is going to guess #1. I don't even remember him being in the league:hp.

[leecemark]

--Less than 24 hours to make changes to your non-tender list before you're on the hook for salaries for this season.
--I'll be putting the draft thread up shortly. Please check it out and let me know if there are any traded picks I've missed.

[leecemark]

--Looking over the rosters here is what I see teams needing to get ready for the seasons. Of course, most of these are just my opinion (in some cases not - the team literally has NOBODY to man the position). Not al these holes are going to be filled adequetely via the draft and free agency, so maybe you'll see a trade partner in this post:hp.
Hornets: C, 1B, CF, RF or LF
Badgers: upgrades at all IF and C
Gold Sox: locked and loaded!
Diablos: C, 2B
Shoeless Joes: 1B/OF?
Skipjacks: 3B
Gamblers: C, 2B, 3B, RF or LF
Knights: depth in IF/OF
Legends: depth in IF
Hard Cider: 2B and 3B
Redbirds: SS, LF
Angels: Everything, except catcher

--Three teams need starting catchers and at least one more would probably like one - but there is nobody very good and few who even played much available in this years draft or free agent market. The Legends, Skipjacks and Shoeless Joes all have better guys on their bench than the best available free agent. The deepest/best posiiton in free agency is 3B. A break for 2 contenders who have that as a primary need.

--Of course, many teams could use more pitching, too.

[Sockeye]

For those of you needing a catcher iron man Randy Hundley and/or John Bateman is available. In return I'm looking for draft picks.

[leecemark]

--Looking at SP all but 2 teams have 5 solid guys. The Gamblers and Angels are the exceptions, so maybe thats good news for Kyle in attempting to resign Gaylord Perry. Of course, some teams may be looking to upgrade from solid.

[catcher24]

Of course, some teams may be looking to upgrade from solid.

And some teams may be looking to upgrade from solid+...:dance

And I would bet a year's pay that no one could tell me the fielding percentage leader at SS counting players with 200 games played at SS. BTW, you won't find it on the web site encyclopedia, since the file there is set for 420+ games played at SS.

Very good guess with Alley, Dan. Actually, if I drop back to like 300 games, he is #1. And probably the reason Mark doesn't even remember this guy being in the league is that he played all three years with the doormat Senators, which means the 1961 version of COOT VEAL :eek: :confused: :noidea actually played 228 games at SS!

[catcher24]

Mark, the league file you sent me has every team listed with a neutral park. Didn't the migration routine move the ballparks? You may have to go in and modify the park for each team. Don't know if you noticed that or not - and it could make a considerable difference for some teams.

[-Kyle-]

--Looking at SP all but 2 teams have 5 solid guys. The Gamblers and Angels are the exceptions, so maybe thats good news for Kyle in attempting to resign Gaylord Perry. Of course, some teams may be looking to upgrade from solid.

I have cut a lot of space and willing to go high.

[leecemark]

--Looking over the rosters in the Roster Thread it looks like more than a few teams are not updated for trades, cuts, salaries, etc. It makes it very difficult for prospective trade partners to see what you've got to offer and how much its going to cost. Everyone please try and keep those current.

[mac195]

Could someone post ratings for the parks in use this season?

[leecemark]

--What a coincidence. I was just talking to Lew about that.
LH/RH splits ofr singles, doubles, triples and HRs
Dodger 91/91, 90/90, 80/90, 606/60
Busch 93/94, 95/95, 96/95, 75/75
Wrigley 111/111, 110/110, 108/108, 164/164 - yikes!
Connie Mack 95/95, 96/97, 100/100, 106/106
Memorial 104/105, 101/101, 100/101, 89/89
Fenway 99/100, 95/125, 100/101, 79/106
Tiger 94/95, 94/92, 95/95, 145/134
Shea 99/95, 88/80, 92/95, 144/144
Yankee 99/98, 99/100, 103/100, 115/99
Metropoliatan 112/112, 110/105, 106/106, 104/104
Anahiem 90/89, 90/75, 90/90, 116/116
--Biggest surprises are Fenway playing near nuetral and Shea playing as a big HR park.

[Erik Bedard]

That's an absolutely ridiculous park factor for Wrigley. While I'd love to see what Jimmy Wynn can do in that 164 HR setting (as compared to the 61 of the Astrodome where he actually played), but it might kill my pitchers. If anyone's run a sim or two of the '68 season and can tell me how my pitchers performed, it'd be much appreciated.

[-Kyle-]

Dodger stadium is 606 LH HR :o Better stock up on those lefties.

[leecemark]

That's an absolutely ridiculous park factor for Wrigley. While I'd love to see what Jimmy Wynn can do in that 164 HR setting (as compared to the 61 of the Astrodome where he actually played), but it might kill my pitchers. If anyone's run a sim or two of the '68 season and can tell me how my pitchers performed, it'd be much appreciated.

--I think Wrigley plays so high simply because there were so many pitchings parks in the NL at that time. Shea is definatley a pitchers park now, but it has a pretty extreme HR bias for 1968 too. I didn't save the stats
from any of the sims I ran (and I can't run any now because the Hornets and Angels rosters can't support it at this time), but the Gold Sox pitching was not horrible. Not amoung the best, but okay and with your offense made you a very strong contender. You almost always had a winning season and took the division about half of them.

[catcher24]

Dan - I added enough players to the Angels (the Hornets still have enough in the file I have) to whip off four sims. The results will undoubtedly be WAY skewed, since in adding to the Angels I gave them a very decent infield (Denis Menke 2b, Ken McMullen 3B and Hal Lanier, ss) as well as handed them both Dave McNally and Gaylord Perry. They certainly won't end up with all (or probably most) of those players, but it allowed me to run off the sims.

Let me say that you won the division three out of four times (and I did add Bobby Bonds to Mark, and move Messersmith to the Angels - one heck of a rotation on those Angels, huh?), but it was on the strength of your batting attack, which was in the top two in BA, OBP, SLG and OPS in all four sims (first once, second three times). All of those ex-Legends (Felipe Alou, Rusty Staub, Jim Northrup, Mike Shannon) helped out, with Staub, Alou and Northrup almost always among the top 4 (with Wynn) in OPS. Wynn slammed 50 homers one sim. Shannon is usually sixth or seventh. However, if you could improve your pitching somehow it would certainly help you, I think. Your team ERA was ninth, and below league average, in three sims, and was 11th and way below league average in the fourth.

If you'd like, I'll run off some more, but the results aren't going to be all that accurate until the rosters get pretty well set.

[leecemark]

--The park of course skews the numbers. The Gold Sox pitching is probably at least average, but no matter how good they might be they aren't going to post ERA near the top of the league with those park factors. It is a very good hitting team, but not that dominant in a nuetral setting (when I was running the sims in nuetral parks the Legends were ALWAYS the highest scoring team).

[-Kyle-]

Yes, McNally would really help, while Perry wouldn't. Trust me.

[catcher24]

It is a very good hitting team, but not that dominant in a nuetral setting (when I was running the sims in nuetral parks the Legends were ALWAYS the highest scoring team)

I didn't check home/road splits (which I think can be done), but no doubt Fenway helps considerably. He outscored me once; the other three times the Legends finished on top. I think my team may have finally reached their peak in 1968 - at least I hope so. And you're right about the pitching. If you move Dan's team to a neutral or even a pitcher's park, his staff would improve and his hitters will drop off, naturally. But I think you may be in for a real fight this year, Mark! :hp

[-Kyle-]

I didn't check home/road splits (which I think can be done), but no doubt Fenway helps considerably. He outscored me once; the other three times the Legends finished on top. I think my team may have finally reached their peak in 1968 - at least I hope so. And you're right about the pitching. If you move Dan's team to a neutral or even a pitcher's park, his staff would improve and his hitters will drop off, naturally. But I think you may be in for a real fight this year, Mark! :hp

I think you mean Wrigley, because I am definitly not in the competition this year.

Where is my team at anyways?

[-Kyle-]

Mickey Mantle (142 OPS+) is still on the block. Looking for a 2nd round draft pick.

[catcher24]

OOPS! :blush: Yes, I meant Wrigley.

Mickey Mantle (142 OPS+) is still on the block. Looking for a 2nd round draft pick.

If this were next year and I could use Mantle as a DH, you'd have a deal. But I don't think he's going to move Stretch McCovey (175 OPS+) off of first. And I don't think the Gold Sox have any more draft picks to give up, unless you're looking for a second rounder in 1977!

[Erik Bedard]

I've already got Staub. But if the Mick can play short, and Kyle doesn't mind a 1996 second-rounder, then we've got a deal.

[leecemark]

--The free agent thread is up. If you have a player who qualifies for the HTD and want to make a bid to keep them please get it posted there before the start of the auction. You might also check the free agent lists for errors. I'd hate to auction off a guy who belongs on your roster:cap:.

[buppers]

Might as well put this up now.

Putting feelers out to see if there is any interest in Willie Stargell.

All offers considered :)

Ed

[-Kyle-]

In addition, Curt Flood (111 OPS+) with great CF defense is also availible. My ears are open :)

[buppers]

Badgers putting Chris Short on the trading block.

Ed

[catcher24]

The Legends announce that Joe Morgan has signed a five year agreement, which will keep him a Legend through the 1972 season.

[baseballPAP]

The Redbirds sign Menke to a 3 year deal, through 1970.

[Erik Bedard]

Veale will get a three-year deal.

[buppers]

Badgers sign Brooks Robinson to a 4 year deal.

Ed

[buppers]

Should I try to maximize Badgers 68 season and try to be respectable (fat chance) or just get some warm bodies to fill roster spots for the season and move up(dowm?) the draft list for 1969?

Any thoughts welcome.

Thanks, Ed

PS - you can PM me instead of posting if you want.

[-Kyle-]

I kinda feel like the Marlins...but any time I feel I am not going to make a significant run...I just tank it and hope for a high draft pick, and sell some of my short term players for draft picks. I am doing that this year and looking at 1969.

[J W]

I'm very sad we lost Oliva. He was going to have a spot reserved on our outfield wall for his number. Four seasons of wonderful service probably isn't enough.

But all is not lost -- the Skipjacks ink Ken McMullen to a 3 yr deal.

[catcher24]

Should I try to maximize Badgers 68 season and try to be respectable (fat chance) or just get some warm bodies to fill roster spots for the season and move up(dowm?) the draft list for 1969?

Ed, I've run upwards of 40 sims now trying to tweak my rotation. I'm sorry to say, it looks like you'll be getting the #1 or #2 pick (5th or 6th after the expansion teams) no matter what you do. When I was in your position, I tried to field a respectable team, but I also got rid of some high priced talent if got me a high draft choice down the road. So, I guess my suggestion is to do a bit of both.

[leecemark]

--I couldn't see myself actually trying to lose games. Even if I didn't think I could contend I'd try to get the best guys who were available at a reasonable price and field the best possible team once my roster was assembled.
--That said, if I was a non-contending team for a given year I would definately be looking to move players who didn't fit into my long term plans for draft picks or players with more upside. If that meant losing more games this year, then so be it. Trading away guys who won't be part of the team when you are ready to contend is the right thing to do.
--You happen to be in the toughest division this year and your upside - with every possible short term signing and alot of luck - is probably 3rd place. That being the case focuiing on the future is not only acceptable it the only logical choice.

[-Kyle-]

Ed, I've run upwards of 40 sims now trying to tweak my rotation. I'm sorry to say, it looks like you'll be getting the #1 or #2 pick (5th or 6th after the expansion teams) no matter what you do. When I was in your position, I tried to field a respectable team, but I also got rid of some high priced talent if got me a high draft choice down the road. So, I guess my suggestion is to do a bit of both.

Am I at the bottom?

[catcher24]

Actually, I haven't been keeping close tabs. I've been running sims, checking my division standings and the division winners, then checking my pitching to see what I can tweak. I think I might have it now, but not sure.

However, I can tell you that the Gamblers are generally last in the Johnson Division, and second or third worst in overall record. It all depends on how well your guys do compared to the Angels and/or Hornets, who generally finish 3rd/4th in the Cartwright. Poor Ed is almost invariably last, though, because he's locked in the same division with the Legends, Skipjacks and Shoeless Joes, who usually have three of the top five team ERAs. Also, the Legends and Skipjacks more often than not have the top two overall records. The Johnson Division is about 50/50 Knights/Gold Sox as champions; the Cartwright has seen the Diablos win a bit more than the Hard Cider, perhaps 60/40. And those two divisions are usually very close, with the top two teams finishing three games or less apart probably 50% of the time.

Interestingly, for the Legends the four man rotation works much better than a five man set on skip. I tried both, and with the strict four man set up my team ERA is usually a quarter to a half run per game lower. We'll see what happens once the actual season starts, but I expect my test sims give a pretty good picture. I've had two pitchers with 30 win seasons, and Willie McCovey smacked 63 HR and drove in 187 once. He reaches 50 HR about one in five sims. I have been truly amazed, though, at how much the results can vary running the same teams/lineups/rotations.

I will be running my usual 14 simulations and posting results once the rosters, lineups and pitching assignments are finally set.

[buppers]

[QUOTE=leecemark;1115450]----That said, if I was a non-contending team for a given year I would definately be looking to move players who didn't fit into my long term plans for draft picks or players with more upside. If /QUOTE]


Guess that means Pinson, Short and Stargell are now available.

You all know the drill.
Looking for draft picks particularly for years 1970-72

Ed

[catcher24]

When is Stargell's contract up? You might want to hold onto him. He could be a real difference maker in 1969 or 1971. Of course, as I recall that was around a 24M contract, so there aren't too many owners who could take him off of your hands even if they wanted to. Short could make some difference for a team who's on the verge this season and needs an inning eating fourth or fifth starter. Pinson could be difficult to unload at this point, but he'd probably look good to an expansion owner next spring.

Incidentally, a note to all. Since I have decided to go with the four man rotation, Tommy John will be available via trade. He has 177 IP, 154 ERA+, 1.04 WHIP, 2.5M salary. This is his final contract year; he becomes a FA next year, and is almost certain to be taken by an expansion team with a lot of $$$ in the FA auction next spring. I'm looking for a second round draft pick in 1970 or later, but would consider trading for the right player. Full disclosure: He has done rather poorly in the sims I've run. He has had some very outstanding seasons as well, but more poor ones. It just depends on what the game engine decides to do for him in a given season.

[buppers]

When is Stargell's contract up? You might want to hold onto him. He could be a real difference maker in 1969 or 1971. Of course, as I recall that was around a 24M contract, so there aren't too many owners who could take him off of your hands even if they wanted to.


I make a proposal that we can trade budget dollars in transactions :):hide::debate::twocents:

Ed

[buppers]

Incidentally, a note to all. Since I have decided to go with the four man rotation, Tommy John will be available via trade. He has 177 IP, 154 ERA+, 1.04 WHIP, 2.5M salary. This is his final contract year; he becomes a FA next year, and is almost certain to be taken by an expansion team with a lot of $$$ in the FA auction next spring. I'm looking for a second round draft pick in 1970 or later, but would consider trading for the right player. Full disclosure: He has done rather poorly in the sims I've run. He has had some very outstanding seasons as well, but more poor ones. It just depends on what the game engine decides to do for him in a given season. Also, he will NOT be traded to another team in the Hulbert Division.

Not even the lowly Badgers???

[-Kyle-]

Gambler's trade CF Curt Flood to the Skipjacks for their 2nd 2nd Round pick. Please confirm.

[leecemark]

I make a proposal that we can trade budget dollars in transactions :):hide::debate::twocents:

Ed

--That is currently prohibited. It is too late to make rule changes for this season, but we could discuss options for future changes in the discussion thread. It would not be unreasonable for a trade to be made with a team retaining some of the financial burden for a player they moved.
--In any scenario I can think of that would commit you to a portion of Stargell's salary for the duration of his deal though. Since his best years come when you will hopefully be a contender it would be a shame for you to be paying him to play for somebody else. Actually I expect that if you really want out of the deal you could accomplish it next year simply by not protecting him from expansion. I'd probably bite if I were an expansion owner.

[buppers]

I really kinda like Stargell. You must not have seen the :) I put at the end of the line.

Maybe you don't need a secretary, just glasses. I thought at 53, I was one of the oldheads but it looks like maybe I am younger than the average owner (or at least, the average commisioner):):):)

As for trading salary dollars, its just a thought. Not necessarily for Stargell. And the paperwork would probably be prohibitive.

If I keep this up, I'll be volunteering to do league paperwork:eek:

Better get off now!!!!:hide:

[leecemark]

--You've got me by 5 years Ed. I think Lew, you and I are the eldest members. Our owners range from teenagers to 50 somethings. The internet is cool that way. You spend time with people you probably never would in person. Not just the age, but the geography. We've got owners from coast to coast plus Canada and Japan.

[buppers]

Referring to an earlier conversation. I would like to find a way to put salaries and contracts into DMB.
If I get any ideas, I'll let you know.

[catcher24]

Referring to an earlier conversation. I would like to find a way to put salaries and contracts into DMB.

Ed, the salaries can be entered into DMB, as Scott does it in PAP. However, the contracts can't be entered. Whoever entered the salaries would just have to update each year - a time consuming process, I expect. Right, Scott?

Not even the lowly Badgers???


Actually, I edited that post and the part about not trading him within the division is gone. Chances are slim he would go to the Skipjacks or Shoeless Joes, but yes, I'd consider the lowly Badgers.

[catcher24]

--You've got me by 5 years Ed.

And it seems I have Ed by 3 years. I guess that indeed makes me the elder statesman of the CKL. I don't know if that's good or bad. :confused: :noidea

[catcher24]

Tommy John is definitely going. If you are interested, PM me your best offer. I've got some already, and I'd like to get this done prior to the close of the FA auction so I can fill that spot, and his new owner can perhaps save a bid.

[J W]

Gambler's trade CF Curt Flood to the Skipjacks for their 2nd 2nd Round pick. Please confirm.

Confirmed. We're locked and loaded for '68. Just need some roster filler now.

The pick will be our second of two 2nd round picks in 1970.

[leecemark]

--AutographCollector has decided our league requires more time than he can spare. The team is under league control for the time being. I'll try and get the team reasonably competitive for this season without making any additional long term commitments for their new owners.
--This notice is an opportunity for our expansion owners to show if they have been following along. Ken and Robbie if either of you are reading this and want a team a season ahead of schedule say the word and the Hornets are yours - first come first served.
--We now have one immdiate opening and two additional openings for 1969. If any of you know someone who you think might be interested please encourage them to check us out.

[catcher24]

Certainly hate when that happens. :dismay: If anyone is interested, the Hornets are a couple of good hitters (or three to four mediocre ones) away from being playoff contenders. They have an excellent rotation: Jim Hunter, Phil Niekro, Claude Osteen, Don Sutton (with Jim Palmer coming back next season). Also some decent relievers: Wayne Granger, Cal Koonce, Phil Regan. If someone traded excess pitching for a couple of sticks, this team could surprise - as they have in a couple of the sims I've run.

[leecemark]

--The Knights have reached agreement with the Legends on a deal. Leecemark send Lindy McDaniel and our 1st round pick in 1970 to Lew's for Tommy John, Eddie Watt and the Legends 2nd round pick in 1969.

[catcher24]

The Legends confirm. That now provides me with one pick in the first 47 taken next spring, due to this trade and the entrance of four expansion teams. :eek: However, I'll be reloading in 1970 with four first round picks! :)

[J W]

We need a new rule. No more first round picks are to be sent to the Legends.

:help:

[Sockeye]

To whom it may concern. Randy Hundley and Ron Swoboda are both available. Anyone with interest please contract us via PM. Would like to get a deal done today prior to the auction deadline.

[catcher24]

We need a new rule. No more first round picks are to be sent to the Legends.

:p :laugh ;)

[Erik Bedard]

We need a new rule. No more first round picks are to be sent to the Legends.

:help:

And the Gold Sox aren't allowed to trade any more picks. I've only got one of my own first-rounders between now and 1974, and that's in probably the weakest class, 1971.

[leecemark]

--If you want to make it a clean sweep I'll be happy to take that 1971 pick off your hands:dance.

[catcher24]

--If you want to make it a clean sweep I'll be happy to take that 1971 pick off your hand

Or I could, since I have your 1970 and 1973 picks anyway...:p;)

Gee, if you do win the Johnson this season, Dan, and if I happen to win the Hulbert and we meet in the playoffs, maybe I'll have a barbeque for the team before the series and invite all those old Legends over to see their former team mates. I'd almost feel like it was an intra squad game, since your entire starting outfield and top OF reserve all used to play for the Legends.:laugh

[Erik Bedard]

Not Wynn. But Northrup, Alou, and Uhlaender are all ex-Legends, as are Shannon and Staub. In fact, the only homegrown member of my lineup is Johnny Bench.

[catcher24]

OOPS! Forgot Wynn. Is Staub at first base for you, or is he another extra OFer? BTW, based on my sims, your Sox will go as far as the pitching gets them. It isn't 100%, but mighty close to it, that when your team ERA is lower than the Knights or just a bit higher, you win the division. When it's over .25 runs higher, you lose the division. And it's also almost 100% (I think I've seen one sim where it didn't happen) that the second place finisher in the Hulbert is the WC team.

And Mark, you've done a magnificent job with the Hornets so far! You haven't even sent me the updated file with all the moves you made, but I added the players you took in the PFA. It actually allowed them to win the last sim I ran today, upsetting both the Diablos and Hard Cider!

[leecemark]

--I think that was a little flukey for them to win. I hope to make them competitive, but they seem more likley to be fighting to stay out of the basement than to win the division. Anything can happen once the season gets going though. Even if a team only wins 1 of 100 sims the real season might be that one where everything goes right for them.

[catcher24]

The Legends ink the following free agent contracts:

Tommy Harper - 6M, Four years

Ed Brinkman - 250K, Three years (Stinks in 68, is a great backup at SS the next two)

Ed Stroud - 250K, Three years (Ditto, except OFer)

Billy Bryan - 250K, One year

Jim French - 250K, One year

Chico Ruiz - 250K, One year

Russ Snyder - 250K, One year

[catcher24]

The Legends will sign free agent pitchers John Morris and Al Jackson.

Both will receive one year contracts at 250K.

[Erik Bedard]

Anybody need a space eater? I've got the following available for 1M or less:

Jim Lonborg
Al Santorini
Jerry McNertney
Ken Boyer
Ed Sprague

All are capable replacements in case of injury, and Boyer's probably better than that. Looking for a reserve 1B/OF and/or picks.

[buppers]

Comparing my roster to latest file I see:

I still have Hamilton, who I dropped
I don't have Brooks Robinson, who I paid A LOT for

Ed

[leecemark]

--Please post your profile here in something very close this format NLT Friday. For those with the DMB program please e-mail me your MPs.

25 man active squad
Starting Lineup
C: Tim McCarver (2M, 61 draft)
1B: Wes Parker (750K, 64 draft) -AAA
2B: Dick McAuliffe (4.75, 61 draft)
3B: Sal Bando (1M. 1966 draft)
SS: Jim Fregosi (22M, FA 67-69)
CF: Willie Mays (12m, franchise player)
LF: Billy Williams (13M, 61 draft, trade with Redbirds)
RF: Adolpho Phillips (750K, 64 draft)

-bench
OF: Lee Maye (1.75M, 61 draft)
C: Don Pavletich (1M, 61 draft/trade with Hard Cider)
OF: Bobby Bonds (1M, 68 draft/trade)
SS: Leo Cardenas (3.75m, 61 draft)
1B: Mike Epstein (500K, 66 draft)
C: Elston Howard (250K, FA 67-8)


Rotation
SP: Juan Marichal (11.50M, 61 draft/trade with Pirates)
SP: Sonny Seibert (2.75m, 64 draft)
SP: Tommy John (2.5M, 63 Draft/trade)
SP: Camilio Pascual (4.25M, FA 66-68)
SP: Larry Dierker (1M, 64 draft)


- Bullpen
LHSU: Hank Aguirre (2.75M, 61 draft/trade with Redbirds)
RP Jim Roland (250K, FA67-69) - AAA
LM: Eddie Watt (1M, 1965 draft/trade)
RHSU John Purdin (500K, 64 draft)
CL: Bobby Bolin (2.50M, 61 draft)
RP: Fred Lasher (250K, FA67-69) - AAA


Farm hands
Kalamazoo Squires AAA, Hamtramack Dragons AA, Cheyboygan Wizards
RP: Casey Cox (750K, 66 draft)
RP: Tug McGraw (500K, 65 draft) - AA
RHSU: Jack Aker (1M, 64 draft) -AAA
SP: Jim Rooker (250L, 68 draft) - AA
SP: Ron Bryant (250K, 67 draft) - A
RP: Ken Brett (250K, 67 draft) - A
SP: Gary Ross (250K, 69 draft) - A
SP: Jim McGlothlin (500K, 65 draft) - AAA
SP: Gary Peters (250K, FA68-70) - AAA
OF: Carl Taylor (250K, 69 draft) - AA
RP: Dave Baldwin (5000K, 1966 draft/trade with Legends)- AAA
OF: Mike Lum (250K, 67 draft) - A
1B: Rich Reese (500K, 64 draft) - AAA
C: Ken Suarez (250K, 66 draft) - AA
C: Manny Sanguillen (500K, 67 draft) - AA

--40 players for 100M





Draft picks traded
--Option to trade #1's or take #2 from Angels in 1969
--1969 2nd round pick acquired from Legends
--1969 3rd round pick acquired from Angels
--1969 2nd round pick acquired from Diablos
--1970 first round pick traded to Legends


Managerial Profile
Lineup vs RHP
2B: McAuliffe (Sutherland)
SS Fregosi (Sutherland)
RF: Maye (Bonds 25%)
LF Williams (Phillips)
CF Mays (Phillips 10%)
1B: Epstein (Parker, Parker DR)
3B: Bando (Sutherland)
C McCarver (Howard)
PH vs RHP: Paveltich
PH vs LHP: Paveltich

Lineup vs LHP
1B: Parker (Paveltich)
SS: Fregosi (Sutherland)
CF Mays (Phillips)
LF: Willaims (Phillips)
RF: Bonds (Phillips)
3B Bando (Sutherland)
2B: McAuliffe (Sutherland)
C Howard (McCarver)

PH vs RHP: Maye
PH vs LHP: Paveltich


Pitching
SP1 Juan Marichal
SP2 Sonny Seibert
SP3 Camilio Pascaul
SP4 Larry Deirker
SP5 Tommy John
Mop up: Fred Lasher, Jim Roland
Long man: Eddie Wattl, Roland
LH set up: Hank Aguire, Roland
RH set up: Bobby Bolin, Purdin
RH Closer: Bolin, Purdin
LH Closer: Bolin, Aguirre

Profile
Batting
Bunt for hit: least
Sac bunt: Least
Squeeze: Least
Steal: Least
Take extra bases: Standard
Take pitches: Standard
Pinch hitting
for pitchers: Less
for non-pitchers: Less
for platoon partners: More
in blowouts: Standard
Pitching
pitch around - Standard
IBB - Standard
use relievers - Less
use closers - Less
Defense
hold runners - Standard
IF in - Standard
guard lines - Standard

[leecemark]

Comparing my roster to latest file I see:

I still have Hamilton, who I dropped
I don't have Brooks Robinson, who I paid A LOT for

Ed

--Fixed. I'll send a new league file once everyone gets to 40 players tomorrow. If you want to make the change at your end and send MP before that please feel free.

[catcher24]

Owner/President/CEO: Lew Snyder
Manager: Gene Mauch
Batting Coach: Ted Williams
Pitching Coach: Harvey Haddix
1st Base/General Coach: Peewee Reese
3rd Base/General Coach: Minnie Minoso
Bullpen Coach: Yogi Berra

STARTERS
C: Bill Freehan 4.75M Contract: 1961 Rookie, 1 Year club option Exp: N/A
1B:*Willie McCovey 10.75M Contract:1961 Draft, 1 Year club option Exp: N/A
2B:#Don Buford 1.25M Contract:1963 Rookie, Bump 1966 Exp: 1968
3B: Ron Santo 12M Contract:1961 Draft, Franchise Player Exp: N/A
SS: Bert Campaneris 1.5M Contract: 1964 Rookie, Bump 1967 Exp: 1969
LF: *Rick Monday 1M Contract: 1966 Rookie, Bump 1969 Exp: 1971
CF: #Reggie Smith 1.25M Contract: 1966 Rookie, Bump 1969 Exp: 1971
RF: Hank Aaron 12M Contract: 1961 Franchise Player w/250K per year raise Exp: N/A

BENCH
C: *Duke Sims 750K Contract: 1964 Rookie, Bump 1967 Exp: 1969
C: *Billy Bryan 250K Contract: 1968 FA, 1 Year Exp: 1968
IF: Dick Green 1.75M Contract: 1967 FA, 3 Years Exp: 1969
IF: Ed Brinkman 250K Contract: 1968 FA, 3 Years Exp: 1970
OF:*Art Shamsky 1.5M Contract: 1965 Rookie, Bump 1968 Exp: 1970
OF:*Ed Stroud 250K Contract: 1968 FA, 3 Years Exp: 1970
OF:

STARTING PITCHERS
Fergie Jenkins 2.5M Contract: 1965 Rookie, Bump 1968 Exp: 1970
Tom Seaver 1.25M Contract: 1967 Rookie, Bump 1970 Exp: 1972
Luis Tiant 3.25M Contract: 1964 Rookie, Bump 1967 Exp: 1969
Bill Hands 2.5M Contract: 1965 Rookie, Bump 1968 Exp: 1970

BULLPEN
Ted Abernathy 1.75M Contract: 1961 Draft, 1 Year club option Exp: N/A
Bob Locker 1.5M Contract: 1965 Rookie Draft, Bump 1968 Exp: 1970
*Sparky Lyle 1M Contract: 1967 Rookie, Bump 1970 Exp: 1972
Lindy McDaniel 2.75M Contract: 1961 Draft, 1 Year club option Exp: N/A
Roger Nelson 250K Contract: 1967 Rookie, Bump 1970 Exp: 1972
Ron Kline 2.5M Contract:1961 Draft, 1 Year club option Exp: N/A
Dock Ellis 750K Contract: 1968 Rookie Draft, Bump 1971, Exp: 1973

MINOR LEAGUES
C:* Jim French 250K Contract: 1968 FA, 1 Year Exp: 1968
C:
1B:*Mike Jorgenson 250K Contract: 1968 Rookie, Bump 1971 Exp: 1973
2B:*Joe Morgan 10.25M Contract: 1968 FA, 5 Years Exp: 1972
2B:
3B:*Richie Hebner 1M Contract: 1968 Rookie, Bump 1971 Exp: 1973
SS:
OF: Joe Rudi 250K Contract: 1967 Rookie, Bump 1970 Exp: 1972
OF:*Dave May 250K Contract: 1967 Rookie, Bump 1970 Exp: 1972
OF: Tommy Harper 6M Contract: 1968 FA, 4 Years Exp: 1971
OF:
OF: Amos Otis 500K Contract: 1967 Rookie, Bump 1970 Exp: 1972

SP: *Al Downing 2.25M Contract:1961 Draft, 1 Year club option Exp: N/A
SP: *Gerry Arrigo 250K Contract: 1967 FA, 2 Year Exp: 1968
SP:
P: *Tom Burgmeier 250K Contract: 1968 Rookie Draft, Bump 1971, Exp: 1973
P: *John Cumberland 250K Contract: 1968 Rookie Draft, Bump 1971, Exp: 1973
P: Fred Beene 250K Contract: 1968 Rookie Draft, Bump 1971, Exp: 1973
P: *Al Jackson 250K Contract: 1968 FA, 1 Year Exp: 1968
RP:*John Morris 250K Contract: 1968 FA, 1 Year Exp: 1968
RP:

Miscellaneous: Contracts of Chico Ruiz and Russ Snyder, signed at 250K each then released

TOTAL SALARY = $92.5M for 40 players

DRAFT PICKS TRADED AWAY:
1969: Knights get my 2nd round pick.
1970: Stingers 2nd round pick. TRADED TO SOCKEYE ANGELS.

DRAFT PICKS OBTAINED VIA TRADES:

1969: Angels 4th round pick (for whatever that'll be worth!)
1970: Skipjacks 1st round pick.
1970: Gold Sox 1st round pick.
1970: Knights 1st round pick.
1972: Hornets 1st round pick.
1973: Gold Sox 1st round pick.

LINEUPS AND STRATEGIES FOR 1967

Lineup vs LHP
#Don Buford, 2B (Dick Green 45% DR: Green)
*Rick Monday, LF (Shamsky DR: Shamsky)
Bill Freehan, C (*Duke Sims)
Hank Aaron, RF (Shamsky)
*Willie McCovey, 1B (Freehan)
#Reggie Smith, CF (Monday)
Ron Santo, 3B (Buford)
Bert Campaneris, SS (Green)
Pitcher
PH vs LHP: Sims, Shamsky, Green
PH vs RHP: Sims, Shamsky, Green


Lineup vs RHP
#Don Buford, 2B (Green DR: Green)
*Rick Monday, LF (Shamsky 8% DR: Shamsky)
Hank Aaron, RF (Shamsky)
*Willie McCovey, 1B (Sims)
Bill Freehan, C (Sims 2%)
#Reggie Smith, CF (Monday)
Ron Santo, 3B (Buford)
Bert Campaneris, SS (Green)
Pitcher
PH vs LHP: Sims,Shamsky,Green
PH vs RHP: Sims,Shamsky,Green

Pitching Assignments
4 Man Rotation (Strict)
SP1 Tom Seaver
SP2 Fergie Jenkins
SP3 Luis Tiant
SP4 Bill Hands
Spot Starter: Roger Nelson, Dock Ellis
Mopup Relief: Sparky Lyle; Ted Abernathy
Longman: Dock Ellis; Roger Nelson; Lindy McDaniel; Ted Abernathy; Sparky Lyle
LH Setup:
RH Setup:
LH Closer: Bob Locker
RH Closer: Ron Kline

Managerial Profile
Hitting
Bunt for hit: Standard
Sac Bunt: Standard
Squeeze: Standard
Hit and Run: Standard
Steal: More
Take Extra Bases: More
Take Pitches: Standard
Pinch hit for pitchers: Standard
Pinch hit for non-pitchers: Less
Pinch hit for Platoon Partner: Standard
Pinch hit in blowouts: More

Pitching
Pitch Around: Standard
IBB: Standard
Pickoff: Standard
Pitching Out: Standard
Use Relievers: Standard
Use Closers: More

Defense
Hold Runners: Standard
IF In: Standard
Guard Lines: Standard

[Erik Bedard]

The Gold Sox cut Al Santorini to get us down to 40.

Lineup:

Beckert (Kubiak 15%)
Shannon (Boyer 10%, Kubiak)
Alou (Uhlaender)
Wynn (Uhlaender)
Staub (Alou)
Northrup (Uhlaender 5%)
Bench (Look 10%)
Alley (Renick 15%)

PH v. LH: Boyer, Renick
PH v. RH: Uhlaender, Boyer

SP1: Veale
SP2: Bahnsen
SP3: Blass
SP4: Nash
SP5: Jackson (skip)

Bullpen:

Spot Starter: Santiago
Long Man: Ryan
Mop up: Perranoski, Ryan, Face
RHSU: Santiago, Worthington, Bunker, Face
LHSU: Hiller, Bunker, Santiago
CL: Perry

Profile:

Batting

Bunt for hit: Least
Sac bunt: Standard (Pitchers: More)
Squeeze: Less
Steal: Less
Take extra bases: Standard
Take pitches: More

Pinch hitting

for pitchers: More
for non-pitchers: Least
for platoon partners: Standard
in blowouts: Most

Pitching

pitch around - Less
IBB - Standard
use relievers - Less
use closers - More

Defense

hold runners - Standard
IF in - Standard
guard lines - Standard

[Sockeye]

Starting Lineup
C-Randy Hundley (1.00) (traded for 1968, FA after 1969)
1B-Bill White (.25) (signed 1968, FA after 1968)
2B-Cookie Rojas (.25) (signed 1968, FA after 1968)
3B-Max Alvis (.25) (signed 1968, FA after 1968)
SS-Hal Lanier (.25) (signed 1968, FA after 1968)
LF-Willie Crawford (.50) (drafted 1964, leaves after 1969)
CF-Roger Repoz (.25) (signed 1968, FA after 1970)
RF-Ron Swoboda (1.25) (traded for 1968, FA after 1970)

Bench
C-John Bateman (.75) (drafted 1963, FA after 1968)
1B-Dalton Jones (.50) (drafted 1964, FA after 1969)
3B-Bobby Cox (.25) (drafted 1968, leaves after 1969)
LF-Norm Miller (.25) (signed 1967, FA after 1969)
RF-Brant Alyea (.50) (drafted 1965, FA after 1970)

Rotation
SP1-Dave McNally (22.00) (signed 1968, FA after 1972)
SP2-Gaylord Perry (27.50) (signed 1968, FA after 1972)
SP3-Mike Cuellar (4.50) (traded for 1968, 1961 draftee)
SP4-Milt Pappas (4.75) (signed 1968, FA after 1970)
SP5-Dick Ellsworth (4.25) (drafted 1961)

Bullpen
LHSU-Tom Hall (.50) (drafted 1968, FA after 1973)
Closer-Andy Messersmith (1.00) (traded for 1968, FA after 1973)
Longman-Jim McAndrew (.25) (drafted 1968, leaves after 1972)
RHSU-Mudcat Grant (2.25) (drafted 1961)
RHSU-Diego Segui (12.75) (signed 1968, FA after 1971)
Mop up-Rich Nye (.50) (drafted 1966, FA after 1971)
Mop up-Bill Kelso (.50) (drafted 1964, leaves after 1968)

Minor League Roster

1B-Mike Hegan (.25) (signed 1967, FA after 1969)
RP-Rollie Fingers (.25) (drafted 1968, FA after 1973)
OF-Ralph Garr (.25) (drafted 1968, FA after 1973)
C-Ellie Rodriguez (.25) (drafted 1968, FA after 1973)
1B-Gail Hopkins (.25) (drafted 1968, FA after 1973)
RP-Steve Kealey (.25) drafted 1968, leaves after 1972)
OF-Jim Holt (.25) drafted 1968, FA after 1973)
C-Bob Tillman (.25) (signed 1968, FA after 1968)
1B-Ed Kranepool (.25) signed 1968, FA after 1968)
3B-Don Wert (.25) (signed 1968, FA after 1968)
CF-Andy Kosco (.25) (signed 1968, FA after 1969)
LF-Willie Smith (.25) (signed 1967, FA expires after 1969)
CF-Jay Johnstone (.50) (drafted 1966, FA after 1971)
LF-Tommy Davis (.25) (signed 1968, FA after 1970)
LF-Jesus Alou (.25) (signed 1968, FA after 1968)

9.00 buyout on Brooks Robinson

Total Salary = $100.00 (40 players)

Additional Picks

3rd round pick in '69 (from Hard Cider)
4th round pick in '69 (from EB Gold Sox)
1st round pick in '71 (from Shoeless Joes)
3rd round pick in '71 (from EB Gold Sox)
1st round pick in '72 (from EB Gold Sox)
2nd round pick in '72 (from EB Gold Sox)
3rd round pick in '72 (from Shoeless Joes)
2nd round pick in '73 (from EB Gold Sox)
2nd round pick in '74 (from EB Gold Sox)

Picks given away

Leecemark has option of swapping 1st rd picks in '69 or my 2nd rd pick in '69
3rd round pick in '69 (to Knights)
4th round pick in '69 (to Lew's Legends)
5th round pick in '69 (to EB Gold Sox)
2nd round pick in '70 (to JW Skipjacks)

Managerial Profile

VS RHP

1. Roger Repoz CF (L)
2. Ron Swoboda RF (R)
3. Willie Crawford LF (L)
4. Bill White 1B (L)
5. Randy Hundley C (R)
6. Max Alvis 3B (R)
7. Cookie Rojas 2B (R)
8. Hal Lanier SS (R)

VS LHP

1. Roger Repoz CF (L)
2. Bobby Cox 3B (R)
3. Norm Miller LF (L)
4. Brant Alyea RF (R)
5. John Bateman C (R)
6. Cookie Rojas 2B (R)
7. Dalton Jones 1B (L)
8. Hal Lanier SS (R)

Batting
bunt for hit: standard
hit and run: most
sac bunt: most
squeeze: more
steal: average
take extra bases: most
take pitches: most

pinch hitting
for pitchers: less
for non-pitchers: standard
for platoon partners: standard
in blowouts: most

Pitching
pitch around: standard
IBB: standard
use relievers: less
use closers: more

Defense
hold runners: standard
IF in: standard
guard lines: standard

[mac195]

Major League
C: Tom Haller (2.5M) '61
C-1B: Jack Hiatt (500K) '64
1B: Norm Cash (10.75M) '61
2B: Mike Andrews (750K) '66
2B: Bernie Allen (1.5M) '68-'70 FA
SS: Larry Brown (1.5M) '63
3B: Ed Charles (4.75M) '68 FA
3B-OF: Dick Allen (3M) '63
OF: Frank Robinson (12M) franchise
OF Johnny Calison (5M) '66-'69 FA
OF: Roy White (1M) '65
OF: Len Gabrielson (750K) '66-'68 FA
OF: Gates Brown (1.25M) '63
SP: Don Drysdale (14.5M) '64-68' FA
SP: Ken Holtzman (1M) '65
SP: Jim Hardin (500K) '67
SP: Pat Jarvis (500K) '66
SP: Bob Moose (250K) '67
SP: Jack Fisher (250K) '67-'68 FA
RP: Don McMahon (10.5M) '65-'69 FA
RP: Dick Selma (500K) '65
RP: Steve Hamilton (2.25M) '61 (from Legends)
RP: Horacio Pina (250K) '68
SP: Luke Walker (500K) '65
SP: Jerry Nyman (250K) '68
Minors
C: Bob Barton (250K) '68 FA
3B: Bill Sudakis (250K) '68
OF: Tommie Agee (5M) '68-'71 FA
OF: John Mayberry (250K) '68
OF-1B: Ron Fairly (2.5M) '61
OF: Merv Rettenmund (500K) '68
OF: Ted Savage (500K) '68-'70 FA
OF: Manny Jimenez (500K) '68 FA
SP: Jim Bunning (250K) '68-'70 FA
SP: Dick Hughes (500K) '66
SP: Lee Stange (1.75M) '61
SP: Steve Hargan (1M) '65
SP: Larry Jaster (1.5M) '65 (from Pirates)
RP: Cisco Carlos (500K) '67
RP: Alan Foster (250K) '67
40 players / $87.5M

Additional picks:
1st- '69 Gold Sox (for Sandy Koufax)
3rd- '69 Shoeless Joes (for Ron Hunt)
3rd- '70 Skipjacks (for Rick Reichardt)
Picks traded away:
3rd- '69 Skipjacks

Lineup vs. RHP
1 Andrews 2B (B Allen DR)
2 White CF (Callison)
3 Robinson LF (Gabrielson 30%)
4 D Allen RF (Callison DR)
5 Haller C (Hiatt)
6 Cash 1B (Hiatt)
7 Charles 3B (D Allen)
8 L Brown SS (Andrews)
PH vs RHP: G Brown, Gabrielson, Callison
PH vs LHP: G Brown, Hiatt, Gabrielson
Lineup vs. LHP
1 Andrews 2B (B Allen DR)
2 White CF (Callison)
3 Robinson LF (Gabrielson)
4 Allen RF (Callison DR)
5 Charles 3B (D Allen)
6 Haller C (Hiatt 30%)
7 Hiatt 1B (Cash 30%, DR)
8 L Brown SS (Andews)
PH vs RHP: G Brown, Gabrielson, Callison
PH vs LHP: G Brown, Gabrielson, Callison

Pitching
SP1: Jarvis
SP2: Drysdale
SP3: Hardin
SP4: Moose
SP5: Selma (skip)
Spot: Holtzman, Fisher, Nyman
Mop up: Fisher, Holtzman
Long man: Holtzman, Fisher
LH set up: Walker, Nyman
RH set up: McMahon, Pina
LH closer: Hamilton, Walker
RH closer: McMahon, Pina

Profile
Batting
bunt for hit: less
sac bunt: less (Andrews standard)
squeeze: less
steal: less
take extra bases: standard
take pitches: standard

pinch hitting
for pitchers: more
for non-pitchers: more
for platoon partners: more
in blowouts: standard

Pitching
pitch around: standard
IBB: standard
use relievers: standard
use closers: more

Defense
hold runners: standard
IF in: standard
guard lines: standard

[leecemark]

Dan, you did not list major/minor league breakdown. It was easy to make the cuts down to 26 since that is how many players are listed in lineup, rotation, depth chart and bullpen roles. Somebody who is in your plans needs to be farmed to get to 25 though. You do have 13 pitchers active, so I'd look there first.
Ed, your MP had you at 26 also. Al Spangler was no higher than 4th on depth chart at any position so I farmed him until you tell me different.

[buppers]

Major League:

C - Elrod Hendricks - .250 (68 draft)
C - Jim Pagliaroni - 1.500 (68 free agent, signed for 1 year)
1B - Danny Cater - 1.750 (64 draft, .250)
2B - Horace Clarke - 1.500 (65 draft, .250)
3B - Brooks Robinson - 13.000 (68 free agent, signed for 5 years)
3B Tony Taylor - 2.250 (61 draft, .500)
SS - Ray Oyler - .250 (67 free agent, signed for 3 years)
SS - Hector Torres - .250 (68 draft)
LF - Mike Hershberger - 1.000 (67 free agent, signed for 3 years)
LF - Cleon Jones - 1.750 (64 draft, .250)
LF - Willie Stargell - 23.000 (67 free agent, signed for 5 years)
CF - Vada Pinson - 11.500 (61 draft, 9.750)
CF - Del Unser - .500 (68 draft)
RF - Roger Maris - 1.500 (68 free agent, signed for 1 year)
RF - Ceasr Tovar - 2.500 ( 61 draft, .750)

P - Dave Boswell - 1.750 (64 draft, .250)
P - Woodie Fryman - .750 (66 draft, .250)
P - Denny Lemaster - 2.500 (68 free agent, signed for 3 years)
P - Barry Moore - .250 (68 free agent, signed for 2 years)
P - Joe Niekro - .500 ( 67 draft, .250)
P - Juan Pizzarro - .250 ( 67 free agent, signed for 3 years)
P - Bob Priddy - .250 ( 67 free agent, signed for 3 years)
P - Ron Reed - .250 ( 67 free agent, signed for 3 years)
P - Chris Short - 12.000 ( 61 draft, 10.250)
P - Joe Gibbon - 3.000 ( 68 free agent, signed for 1 year)

Minor League:

C - Jake Gibbs - .250 ( 67 free agent, signed for 3 years)
C - Russ Gibson - .500 - (67 draft, .250)
1B - Jim Spencer - .250 ( 68 draft, .250)
2B - Tito Fuentes - .500 ( 67 free agent, signed for 3 years)
CF - Don Bosch - .250 ( 68 free agent, signed for 1 year)
CF - Ron Davis - .250 (68 free agent, signed for 1 year)
RF - Don Lock - .750 ( 68 free agent, signed for 1 year)
RF - Dave Marshall - 1.500 ( 68 free agent, signed for 1 year)
RF - Al Spangler - .500 (67 draft, .250)
RF - Larry Stahl - 1.500 ( 68 free agent, signed for 1 year)
P - Jim Hannan - 1.500 (68 free agent, signed for 2 years)
P - Jerry Johnson - .250 ( 68 draft, .250)
P - Mike Kekich - .250 ( 68 free agent, signed for 1 year)
P - Dave Morehead - .250 ( 68 free agent, signed for 1 year)
P - Bob Humphreys - .250 (67 free agent, signed for 3 years)



Ed

[Erik Bedard]

Farm out Nolan Ryan until I need him.

[mac195]

That Legends team looks truely legendary this season, Lew. You'll have at least one 30-game-winner, probably two... maybe three :bowdown:

[J W]

I told him he'd challenge the '64 Skipjacks but he doesn't believe me. :p

[leecemark]

The single season wins record is 117, shared by the 1961 Hard Cider and Knights and 1964 Skipjacks. I'd put the Legends at even money to break that.

[Erik Bedard]

And the amazing thing is that he did it without mortgaging his future. That's a sure sign of excellent drafting and trading.

[jkc32]

Shoeless trims to 40 by releasing the players below.

Willie Montanez
Bob Aspromonte
Dennis Ribant
Don Shaw
Al McBean
Johnny Edwards ($1.25 - 3 year contract good through 1968)
Bud Harrelson ($0.50 - 3 year contract good through 1968)
Clete Boyer (shouldn't be on roster, 4 year contract expired 1967)

[Erik Bedard]

I just found that Jerry McNertney was only signed to a one-year contract last year, instead of the two years that I remembered it being and had in my roster post. So he's gone now, and we'll sign Johnny Edwards to a three-year, 250K deal.

[Sockeye]

Just curious but what is the record for lowest team batting average and fewest runs scored in a CKL season?

[leecemark]

.236 (65 Legends) and 563 (65 Shoeless Joes). You've got a shot at both marks:gt.

[leecemark]

--Everybody except the Diablos is at 40 men now. Still 5 players to sign, Jim. Still need profiles/MP's from the Diablos and Skipjacks. Please make sure you've updated your team post in the Roster thread too. I don't need the info, but it will be help for fellow owners who might be looking for a deal or just trying to keep track of who has whom and what they are doing with them.

[Erik Bedard]

.236 (65 Legends) and 563 (65 Shoeless Joes). You've got a shot at both marks:gt.

Considering you've got either his first or second and third round picks, I'm not surprised you're rooting for him to set the records. The Year of the Pitcher might help, though.

[leecemark]

--I think Sockeye has a pretty good idea of how offensive his offense will be this year. Team real life line 223/281/333 (league average 261/323/391). The lineup is as follows.
CF Roger Repoz 240/309/371
RF Ron Swoboda 242/325/373::yawn:
LF Willie Crawford 251/335/400:shhh: - almost a real hitter
1B Bill White 239/309/361:hp
C Randy Hundley 228/280/311:confused:
3B Max Alvis 223/292/327:eek:
2B Cookie Rojas 232/248/306:noidea
SS Hal Lanier 206/222/239:bowdown:
--The Angels pitching OTOH is fairly good. Garry spent ALL his money on the staff. Most of that lineup are last minute, minimum wage guys. Maybe next season will be the lineup's turn:).

[Erik Bedard]

I believe it was Scott who once dubbed the current Angels SS Hal "what is this stick for?" Lanier. 38 OPS+... wow.