If the Dodgers would have gone to Queens...

[Yankeebiscuitfan]

Maybe today is not the best day to ask this, but I am just curious.

If the Big O would have accepted a move to Queens, would you have supported it?

I mean, Brooklyn Dodgers playing in Queens sounds a bit strange to me, even though both NY football teams play in New Jersey.

[TarHeelMan]

From what I gather in my brief time on these boards, that was never gonna happen, it was L.A. or bust for O'Malley. But I remember my father saying that he would have supported them in Queens, even though he was living in Brooklyn.

[Spirit of '55]

Friends:

A move to Queens would have been less than ideal from a Brooklynite's standpoint. A new stadium in the Borough would have done much to reinvigorate the County of Kings, which was beginning to slide into a decline which was as much engineered by developers as it was a natural occurrence.

People were being offered the suburban good life out on Lawn Guyland on the cheap, or what seemed like the good life, anyhow. As an adult, I now look back and realize what my family lost moving out to Massapequa. I was ten. We gained a backyard and a pool, but lost a sense of community and belongingness.

I still recall my first impressions of the new house: We moved from the Bayview Houses in Canarsie, where there were always 800 other kids (of all persuasions) readily available as playmates by the simple expedient of going outside, to whitebread Matzoh-Pizza where seeing anybody in the street was literally a cause for concern---Who was that and what was he doing wandering down Connecticut Avenue?

WHY WASN'T ANYBODY EVER OUTSIDE? That WAS weird. (Fellow Lawn Guyland transplants please feel free to weigh in with comments here.)

It rained steadily for the first two weeks that summer, essentially trapping me in the house. Oh, the boredom. A move is dramatic, but not so much for a ten year old. Not enough to keep him occupied, anyway. The schools were good, but NOT as good as PS 272, where I had been going. To go to the store---where WAS there a candy store?---required a car. And so on. Not that it was all so terrible, but it was a culture shock.

But to get back on topic: ON D' UDDER HAND, moving the team to Queens would have allowed the rapidly-expanding suburban fanbase easier access to the team. Something, a sense of intimacy, would have been lost going from Ebbets Field to Shea (or whatever it would have been named), but the team still would have been OUR Dodgers.

Someone here had the idea that Queens could have ceded the ballpark and environs to Brooklyn---I love the thought. That's what Joisey did with Ellis Island and the Statue of Liberty, ceded them to New York State; and that's as it should be, after all. Now, all Spitzer has to do is annex Boca-Delray-Boynton to Staten Island and we'll be getting somewhere.

What was in the Big O's cigars? Wallet O'Money must have been on hallucinogens if he really believed that moving to LA was just like moving to Flushing Meadow. I WONDER HOW MUCH MONEY PASSED UNDER THE TABLE TO CONVINCE HIM NOBODY WOULD NOTICE THE DIFFERENCE????

No wonder they won't release his correspondence in full. That cancelled check is the smoking gun.

Hey!

:lightbulb:

Why can't this group issue a press release :reporter: declaring the Dodgers as POW/MIA (Prisoners of Walter/Missing in Angeles) and demand their safe return to Brooklyn? The media attention might help to get Gil elected to the H.O.F. :twocents:

As Brooklyn Dodger ideas go, it isn't any more offbeat than the Sym-Phony and Hilda's cowbell.

Any thoughts?

:homeplate:

[DODGER DEB]

Friends:

A move to Queens would have been less than ideal from a Brooklynite's standpoint. A new stadium in the Borough would have done much to reinvigorate the County of Kings, which was beginning to slide into a decline which was as much engineered by developers as it was a natural occurrence.

People were being offered the suburban good life out on Lawn Guyland on the cheap, or what seemed like the good life, anyhow. As an adult, I now look back and realize what my family lost moving out to Massapequa. I was ten. We gained a backyard and a pool, but lost a sense of community and belongingness.

I still recall my first impressions of the new house: We moved from the Bayview Houses in Canarsie, where there were always 800 other kids (of all persuasions) readily available as playmates by the simple expedient of going outside, to whitebread Matzoh-Pizza where seeing anybody in the street was literally a cause for concern---Who was that and what was he doing wandering down Connecticut Avenue?

WHY WASN'T ANYBODY EVER OUTSIDE? That WAS weird. (Fellow Lawn Guyland transplants please feel free to weigh in with comments here.)

It rained steadily for the first two weeks that summer, essentially trapping me in the house. Oh, the boredom. A move is dramatic, but not so much for a ten year old. Not enough to keep him occupied, anyway. The schools were good, but NOT as good as PS 272, where I had been going. To go to the store---where WAS there a candy store?---required a car. And so on. Not that it was all so terrible, but it was a culture shock.

But to get back on topic: ON D' UDDER HAND, moving the team to Queens would have allowed the rapidly-expanding suburban fanbase easier access to the team. Something, a sense of intimacy, would have been lost going from Ebbets Field to Shea (or whatever it would have been named), but the team still would have been OUR Dodgers.

Someone here had the idea that Queens could have ceded the ballpark and environs to Brooklyn---I love the thought. That's what Joisey did with Ellis Island and the Statue of Liberty, ceded them to New York State; and that's as it should be, after all. Now, all Spitzer has to do is annex Boca-Delray-Boynton to Staten Island and we'll be getting somewhere.

What was in the Big O's cigars? Wallet O'Money must have been on hallucinogens if he really believed that moving to LA was just like moving to Flushing Meadow. I WONDER HOW MUCH MONEY PASSED UNDER THE TABLE TO CONVINCE HIM NOBODY WOULD NOTICE THE DIFFERENCE????

No wonder they won't release his correspondence in full. That cancelled check is the smoking gun.

Hey!

:lightbulb:

Why can't this group issue a press release :reporter: declaring the Dodgers as POW/MIA (Prisoners of Walter/Missing in Angeles) and demand their safe return to Brooklyn? The media attention might help to get Gil elected to the H.O.F. :twocents:

As Brooklyn Dodger ideas go, it isn't any more offbeat than the Sym-Phony and Hilda's cowbell.

Any thoughts?

:homeplate:

You just might have something here, Spirit of "55"!

How about everyone weigh in on this possibility?

I am all ears!

c.

[donzblock]

A corpse is not a POW, and the corpse is not missing. Its gravesite is clearly marked on Bedford Avenue in Brooklyn. The murderer has not only gone unpunished; he has been enshrined for his crime in the Hall of Infamy.

To talk about MIA or POW is to lend credence to the myth that there is a connection between the team that played in Brooklyn and the abomination that festers on the left coast.

[metfan13]

Maybe today is not the best day to ask this, but I am just curious.

If the Big O would have accepted a move to Queens, would you have supported it?

I mean, Brooklyn Dodgers playing in Queens sounds a bit strange to me, even though both NY football teams play in New Jersey.

My Dad would have remained a Dodger fan and most likely I'd be a Dodger fan.

He tried to follow them in LA for a couple of years while the old Brooklyn players were still with them, but eventually found it too much a bother to follow a team whose games were over too late for the morning paper.

[LeoD]

Queens, sure as hell is better then LALA, from this Brooklyn Dodger fans view point, I would not have liked it in 1958, but since then Queens, looks pretty good.

[dodger dynamo]

not Ideal as I've said before, but I'd still be going to the games, all two hrs. one way and two hrs. back! dodger dynamo

[MattM]

Why can't this group issue a press release :reporter: declaring the Dodgers as POW/MIA (Prisoners of Walter/Missing in Angeles) and demand their safe return to Brooklyn? The media attention might help to get Gil elected to the H.O.F. :twocents:

As Brooklyn Dodger ideas go, it isn't any more offbeat than the Sym-Phony and Hilda's cowbell.

Any thoughts?

:homeplate:

I think the problem that arises is one that has been often addressed on this board. With the "older" generation of Dodger fans moving on, there are less and less first hand fans to talk about the team. Just look at the fire at Ebbets Field, one of the children interviewed said he didn't know that Jackie Robinson broke the color barrier in the place he was standing. As someone from that generation, I don't think the interest is there. I don't know of many people my age who want the Dodgers back in Brooklyn quite like I do. Would there be interest if the team did move back? Of course, but if there was a grassroots campaign, I don't think most people would care. It's quite sad really. I can't tell you how many of my friends never realized the Dodgers played in Brooklyn, and that bothers me.

[Spirit of '55]

Friends:

Pardon my rant, :choke: but Johnny's death has made me think:

I agree that it's been a long time since 1957 and that the original Brooklyn Dodger fanbase has been reduced; however, I DO think the interest is there. The Cyclones do very well at Keyspan Park, better than most other Minors teams, and there's no question that in terms of fan population and fiscal return New York could carry a third ML team.

Yes, it's true that many younger people don't know Dodger history, but they generally don't know history, anyway. Something like 60% of High Schoolers think we fought WITH the Germans AGAINST the Russians in World War II. That's sad.

But they can be made aware, just as I was. Sports is a universal language, and if history and philosophy can wear team colors, then more power to them.
My own interest in the Dodgers is fairly recent, and came about only because one day I was reminiscing with an older relative about some of my childhood memories of Brooklyn. The Dodgers weren't even mentioned, except in passing; egg creams were the central subject.

That got me curious. When I delved into Brooklyn, I discovered three things:

1. If you are seeking "New Amsterdam" look in Brooklyn, not Manhattan.

2. The Dodgers were not just a baseball team, they were a social phenomenon.

3. Everything I remembered about growing up in Brooklyn was true.

It's nice to have this chat group, and it's nice to discuss Ebbets Field and 1955, and it's a fine, if sad, thing to mourn the passing of a man like Johnny Podres with like-minded friends, but there's so much more to this Dodger Way than just remembrances---

The Brooklyn Dodgers were all about community and family and locality. A Brooklynite being mugged in 1951 could have very well diverted the mugger by discussing Ralph Branca's unlucky pitch---"Wanna mug me? Wait 'til next year, OK?" The ethnically diverse team members were all Brooklynites, if not by birth, then by adoption, and that raggedy little ballpark on Sullivan Avenue was everybody's back yard. The Brooklynites I know would all greet the Dodgers enthusiastically, even the youngest ones. Welcome home, Dodger Blue.

The first curveball was thrown in Brooklyn. The first salaried baseball players played for Brooklyn. The first baseball tickets ever paid for were sold in Brooklyn. Ours was the first integrated team in baseball.

In 2008, we tend to forget how revolutionary that was. Jackie Robinson wasn't JUST a black man who put on a blue and white uniform, he was a man who RISKED HIS LIFE to PLAY A GAME, and this was years before Brown v. Board of Ed., Montgomery, Selma, the Voting Rights Act, and so on. And despite the fact that a few guys on the team circulated a petition, Jackie KEPT RIGHT ON PLAYING, and PLAYING PHENOMENALLY WELL. What a singular human being. What an incredible team backed him up.

The BROOKLYN DODGERS are missed because they represented true AMERICAN VALUES, and workable ones, not the Holy of Holies ones that politicians like to trumpet nowadays. That world wasn't perfect, for sure, but it held promise. Pete Hamill's father said it: "This is America, goddamnit!"

This is a team that should be promoted as a real reflection of what's best in this country. Every kid should know that Jackie broke the color line, and that it was our Brooklyn Dodgers who provided the setting for that. Not a Million Man March---a nine inning game of baseball. Everyone should realize that with enough pluck, every day can be a day in October 1955.

If this group, its members, its friends, Brooklyn historians, and other thinking people adopted the idea of THE BROOKLYN DODGERS as not just the Brooklyn Base Ball Club, but as an IDEA of what is possible, then interest in returning the team home would mushroom. The fanbase is there.

This team is no corpse, it's a kidnapped family member.

We've mourned our loss for half a century, we've cursed O'Malley to as thousand hells, and it's all right to do so, but I think that we need to promote this team as a true American institution.

Wallet O'Money violated that tradition. Reggie J. violates it each time he votes Gil nay for the H.O.F. It's time to take back what's ours---not just the Brooklyn Dodgers, but the truly compassionate things that team embodies. Those things are POW/MIA --- Prisoner of Walter/Missing in Angeles. No, the Dodgers returned won't be the same players or the same Ebbets Field, but a return could and would reawaken some of the sense of community that's been missing amongst Brooklynites and Brooklyn Dodgers fans, and by extension, those we come in contact with. And a sense of community is what's lacking in this nation and is what is so desperately needed. Without that, we're toast.

I don't know about you all, but I am sick and tired of being left on hold to Press Pound. I want humanity back. Let's reinvigorate our Dodgers. Let's at the very least make sure they aren't forgotten.

:homeplate:

[MattM]

Friends:

Pardon my rant, :choke: but Johnny's death has made me think:

I agree that it's been a long time since 1957 and that the original Brooklyn Dodger fanbase has been reduced; however, I DO think the interest is there. The Cyclones do very well at Keyspan Park, better than most other Minors teams, and there's no question that in terms of fan population and fiscal return New York could carry a third ML team.

Yes, it's true that many younger people don't know Dodger history, but they generally don't know history, anyway. Something like 60% of High Schoolers think we fought WITH the Germans AGAINST the Russians in World War II. That's sad.

But they can be made aware, just as I was. Sports is a universal language, and if history and philosophy can wear team colors, then more power to them.
My own interest in the Dodgers is fairly recent, and came about only because one day I was reminiscing with an older relative about some of my childhood memories of Brooklyn. The Dodgers weren't even mentioned, except in passing; egg creams were the central subject.

That got me curious. When I delved into Brooklyn, I discovered three things:

1. If you are seeking "New Amsterdam" look in Brooklyn, not Manhattan.

2. The Dodgers were not just a baseball team, they were a social phenomenon.

3. Everything I remembered about growing up in Brooklyn was true.

It's nice to have this chat group, and it's nice to discuss Ebbets Field and 1955, and it's a fine, if sad, thing to mourn the passing of a man like Johnny Podres with like-minded friends, but there's so much more to this Dodger Way than just remembrances---

The Brooklyn Dodgers were all about community and family and locality. A Brooklynite being mugged in 1951 could have very well diverted the mugger by discussing Ralph Branca's unlucky pitch---"Wanna mug me? Wait 'til next year, OK?" The ethnically diverse team members were all Brooklynites, if not by birth, then by adoption, and that raggedy little ballpark on Sullivan Avenue was everybody's back yard. The Brooklynites I know would all greet the Dodgers enthusiastically, even the youngest ones. Welcome home, Dodger Blue.

The first curveball was thrown in Brooklyn. The first salaried baseball players played for Brooklyn. The first baseball tickets ever paid for were sold in Brooklyn. Ours was the first integrated team in baseball.

In 2008, we tend to forget how revolutionary that was. Jackie Robinson wasn't JUST a black man who put on a blue and white uniform, he was a man who RISKED HIS LIFE to PLAY A GAME, and this was years before Brown v. Board of Ed., Montgomery, Selma, the Voting Rights Act, and so on. And despite the fact that a few guys on the team circulated a petition, Jackie KEPT RIGHT ON PLAYING, and PLAYING PHENOMENALLY WELL. What a singular human being. What an incredible team backed him up.

The BROOKLYN DODGERS are missed because they represented true AMERICAN VALUES, and workable ones, not the Holy of Holies ones that politicians like to trumpet nowadays. That world wasn't perfect, for sure, but it held promise. Pete Hamill's father said it: "This is America, goddamnit!"

This is a team that should be promoted as a real reflection of what's best in this country. Every kid should know that Jackie broke the color line, and that it was our Brooklyn Dodgers who provided the setting for that. Not a Million Man March---a nine inning game of baseball. Everyone should realize that with enough pluck, every day can be a day in October 1955.

If this group, its members, its friends, Brooklyn historians, and other thinking people adopted the idea of THE BROOKLYN DODGERS as not just the Brooklyn Base Ball Club, but as an IDEA of what is possible, then interest in returning the team home would mushroom. The fanbase is there.

This team is no corpse, it's a kidnapped family member.

We've mourned our loss for half a century, we've cursed O'Malley to as thousand hells, and it's all right to do so, but I think that we need to promote this team as a true American institution.

Wallet O'Money violated that tradition. Reggie J. violates it each time he votes Gil nay for the H.O.F. It's time to take back what's ours---not just the Brooklyn Dodgers, but the truly compassionate things that team embodies. Those things are POW/MIA --- Prisoner of Walter/Missing in Angeles. No, the Dodgers returned won't be the same players or the same Ebbets Field, but a return could and would reawaken some of the sense of community that's been missing amongst Brooklynites and Brooklyn Dodgers fans, and by extension, those we come in contact with. And a sense of community is what's lacking in this nation and is what is so desperately needed. Without that, we're toast.

I don't know about you all, but I am sick and tired of being left on hold to Press Pound. I want humanity back. Let's reinvigorate our Dodgers. Let's at the very least make sure they aren't forgotten.

:homeplate:


Amen brother.

My biggest problem has been the lack of education regarding what that team did for America. Now that I think about it, I honestly don't remember learning about Jackie Robinson from any teachers. I heard it from my family. I still remember passing Ebbets Field for the first time in 1993, when my grandmother died, and my grandfather said that we were passing the place where the Dodgers played. I couldn't picture a ball field in between those concrete walls. It was so bleak and depressing. Very ironic.

Looking back on it, guys like Branch Rickey, and Jackie were bigger than the game. They took on a different persona. There are very few figures in society that people can look on with such reverence. Yes, they were human, they made mistakes, and got angry. But they identified with the borough more than any team has, or ever will. Like you said SO55, that was a time when America was truly great.

Money aside, the fact that the Dodgers had such a following, and so much history, it was a down right crime to take them away.

[DODGER DEB]

Friends:

Pardon my rant, :choke: but Johnny's death has made me think:

I agree that it's been a long time since 1957 and that the original Brooklyn Dodger fanbase has been reduced; however, I DO think the interest is there. The Cyclones do very well at Keyspan Park, better than most other Minors teams, and there's no question that in terms of fan population and fiscal return New York could carry a third ML team.

Yes, it's true that many younger people don't know Dodger history, but they generally don't know history, anyway. Something like 60% of High Schoolers think we fought WITH the Germans AGAINST the Russians in World War II. That's sad.

But they can be made aware, just as I was. Sports is a universal language, and if history and philosophy can wear team colors, then more power to them.
My own interest in the Dodgers is fairly recent, and came about only because one day I was reminiscing with an older relative about some of my childhood memories of Brooklyn. The Dodgers weren't even mentioned, except in passing; egg creams were the central subject.

That got me curious. When I delved into Brooklyn, I discovered three things:

1. If you are seeking "New Amsterdam" look in Brooklyn, not Manhattan.

2. The Dodgers were not just a baseball team, they were a social phenomenon.

3. Everything I remembered about growing up in Brooklyn was true.

It's nice to have this chat group, and it's nice to discuss Ebbets Field and 1955, and it's a fine, if sad, thing to mourn the passing of a man like Johnny Podres with like-minded friends, but there's so much more to this Dodger Way than just remembrances---

The Brooklyn Dodgers were all about community and family and locality. A Brooklynite being mugged in 1951 could have very well diverted the mugger by discussing Ralph Branca's unlucky pitch---"Wanna mug me? Wait 'til next year, OK?" The ethnically diverse team members were all Brooklynites, if not by birth, then by adoption, and that raggedy little ballpark on Sullivan Avenue was everybody's back yard. The Brooklynites I know would all greet the Dodgers enthusiastically, even the youngest ones. Welcome home, Dodger Blue.

The first curveball was thrown in Brooklyn. The first salaried baseball players played for Brooklyn. The first baseball tickets ever paid for were sold in Brooklyn. Ours was the first integrated team in baseball.

In 2008, we tend to forget how revolutionary that was. Jackie Robinson wasn't JUST a black man who put on a blue and white uniform, he was a man who RISKED HIS LIFE to PLAY A GAME, and this was years before Brown v. Board of Ed., Montgomery, Selma, the Voting Rights Act, and so on. And despite the fact that a few guys on the team circulated a petition, Jackie KEPT RIGHT ON PLAYING, and PLAYING PHENOMENALLY WELL. What a singular human being. What an incredible team backed him up.

The BROOKLYN DODGERS are missed because they represented true AMERICAN VALUES, and workable ones, not the Holy of Holies ones that politicians like to trumpet nowadays. That world wasn't perfect, for sure, but it held promise. Pete Hamill's father said it: "This is America, goddamnit!"

This is a team that should be promoted as a real reflection of what's best in this country. Every kid should know that Jackie broke the color line, and that it was our Brooklyn Dodgers who provided the setting for that. Not a Million Man March---a nine inning game of baseball. Everyone should realize that with enough pluck, every day can be a day in October 1955.

If this group, its members, its friends, Brooklyn historians, and other thinking people adopted the idea of THE BROOKLYN DODGERS as not just the Brooklyn Base Ball Club, but as an IDEA of what is possible, then interest in returning the team home would mushroom. The fanbase is there.

This team is no corpse, it's a kidnapped family member.

We've mourned our loss for half a century, we've cursed O'Malley to as thousand hells, and it's all right to do so, but I think that we need to promote this team as a true American institution.

Wallet O'Money violated that tradition. Reggie J. violates it each time he votes Gil nay for the H.O.F. It's time to take back what's ours---not just the Brooklyn Dodgers, but the truly compassionate things that team embodies. Those things are POW/MIA --- Prisoner of Walter/Missing in Angeles. No, the Dodgers returned won't be the same players or the same Ebbets Field, but a return could and would reawaken some of the sense of community that's been missing amongst Brooklynites and Brooklyn Dodgers fans, and by extension, those we come in contact with. And a sense of community is what's lacking in this nation and is what is so desperately needed. Without that, we're toast.

I don't know about you all, but I am sick and tired of being left on hold to Press Pound. I want humanity back. Let's reinvigorate our Dodgers. Let's at the very least make sure they aren't forgotten.

:homeplate:


In a capsule, SO55, you have said what I have spent most of my life preaching about...to anyone who would listen. OUR BROOKLYN DODGERS didn't belong to BROOKLYN....they WERE BROOKLYN! As long as I have a breath in me, THEY will NEVER be forgotten!

But, as time goes by, more and more people, including many who claim to be real baseball fans, (for whatever reason) don't want to hear it! When WE started with the idea of having a 50th anniversary of OUR 1955 World Championship back in 2003, WE were so excited. I could write a book on just that experience of trying to get all kinds of people interested in the idea, including politicans, business people, and all kinds of people who were in some way connected to OUR DODGERS. But, while they all liked the idea, they wouldn't support it. All WE heard was "get over it, no one is interested in the BROOKLYN DODGERS anymore". I discussed it with several of OUR players, who are/were friends, and they were very excited about the possibility. But, WE just couldn't raise any $$$$$$$. All OUR efforts, by day, by week, by month and by year, were well documented here in BBF, on OUR Forum, in several long threads. Sadly, NO ONE can read them any longer. OUR entire archives, from 2002 through early 2006, has been DELETED! And, I am both sick and furious over it. There was so much of OUR history in those precious threads, stories, photos, ideas, etc.........now it's all gone! This happened this past Monday, when I not only woke up to the upsetting news about my friend Johnny Podres' passing, but then quickly noticed that OUR thread count total had been reduced to 583 from 1,969, and OUR post count total reduced to 9,318 from 22,766. I was told that BBF had "crashed". Funny thing, though, it was only OUR Forum that lost so many threads and posts. Now, how are WE supposed to interest people on the outside, if WE can't keep BBF interested in OUR team and it's history?

c.

[Ralph Zig Tyko]

Somewhere in cyberspace, those threads still exist. It is my understanding that nothing ever disappears entirely. Have you talked to the web master?

[Spirit of '55]

Friends:

Ralph's right. Those threads are out there on BBF. Get on the webmaster to bring them back up RIGHT AWAY. And when we get 'em back let's figure out a way to archive them safely---maybe give them to the Brooklyn Dodger Hall of Fame as documents.

Anybody here have a line to Fred Wilpon? Remember, he own the Mets and also the Cyclones, and they're his MiLB reincarnation of the Brooklyn Dodgers he knows, loves, and misses. Maybe they can find space on their server for our archives.

:homeplate:

[Yankeebiscuitfan]

But, as time goes by, more and more people, including many who claim to be real baseball fans, (for whatever reason) don't want to hear it!
c.

Not everybody is like us DD. I mean, I am a baseball addict; no matter if it is today's baseball or the history of baseball. If someone comes up with a story about the Brooklyn Dodgers, NY Giants or Boston/Milwaukee Braves for example, I am all ears.
When my father is telling about baseball in his days, I am all ears. Even though I have heard those stories a thousand times already. I love to hear them.

But not everyone is interested in the same things. I love to read the posts in your forum. I love to read the posts in the Yankee forum.There are several other parts on BBF that I like. But I do care less about the stories on the board on the Cincinnati Reds for example. Everyone has his/her own preferences.

No one is the same. And maybe that is good. Otherwise the world would be very boring.

[Spirit of '55]

Friends:

True, not everyone IS interested in the same things. And the world WOULD be very boring if they were.

As I tried to point out in my recent rant :choke: the matter is that most people think we are just sentimental hangers-on of an old ballclub that ceased to exist as such on a late September day in 1957. That's not the truth of the matter.

Anybody can be a fan of an old ball team, but very few old ball teams get mentioned almost daily in the media, have books written about them or films released about them five decades after their supposed end.

How many BOYS OF SUMMERs have been written about the Giants? The New York Giants are primarily memorable in relation to our Dodgers, as adversaries, and as having left New York in '57. Yet, nobody ever mentions the idea of the Giants coming back to the New York area. Governors and businessmen don't issue proclamations and hold press conferences about the Giants. A Minor League team (the Cyclones) belonging to another Major League franchise (the Mets) does not market itself as their successors in New York, nor sell Giant memorabilia, or have a statue of Durocher and Mays outside its stadium.

But our Dodgers do.

There's a reason.

If we approached the Brooklyn Dodgers not just as a fond but fusty memory but as a dynamic example of what we as Americans are made of, we'd get a lot of media interest. Imagine a political candidate mentioning our Dodgers as an example of prime American virtues. The fact is, the Brooklyn Dodgers are a better measure of "family values" than all the televangelistas out there, or all the I-wannabe-the-President yutzes who carp on about "faith." The Dodgers are essentially secular. The Dodgers have no one race or religion. Yet they come from the City of Churches, a place where 2 million diverse human beings of every shade of skin and belief live (relatively) peaceably side by side. When they said, "Wait 'Til Next Year" the fans swore by it, and all together they epitomized, and still epitimize, hard work and hope for the future.

There are millions of people who share these across-the-board values. This forum is not just about an historic ball club, it's about an American ideal. If we want to promote (and honor) our Dodgers, THAT'S what we need to promote. :homeplate:

[Ralph Zig Tyko]

"How many BOYS OF SUMMERs have been written about the Giants? The New York Giants are primarily memorable in relation to our Dodgers, as adversaries, and as having left New York in '57. Yet, nobody ever mentions the idea of the Giants coming back to the New York area. Governors and businessmen don't issue proclamations and hold press conferences about the Giants. A Minor League team (the Cyclones) belonging to another Major League franchise (the Mets) does not market itself as their successors in New York, nor sell Giant memorabilia, or have a statue of Durocher and Mays outside its stadium."

We Giants fans have been more appeased by the Mets. Strange, because, early on, Weiss brought in many former Dodgers and few former Giants. That the Mets first played in the Polo Grounds, their orange NYs are similar, and uni styles closer to the NY Giants are factors.

[dodger dynamo]

I have said and feel the same way so55. I've been ridiculed and chastised for it even in this forum, but I do not give up, despite the many arguments raised against my suggestions. some people just don't under stand. geez for cryin out loud their are giants fans who under stand. the name of the borough could have been brooklyn-dodgers when I was a kid. I probably believed it was. my children are brooklyn dodger fans and they've never seen them play and they came to it after asking me questions, it wasn't a forced issue. what people don't realize is it a part of our heritage our history, family history, not just baseball history. it's america's history. what took place at 55 sullivan went beyond baseball and brooklyn. it's not confined by outfield walls or borough boundries it belongs to americans and many don't know they've lost it. the brooklyn dodgers is not now or ever just a base ball team. the brooklyn dodgers weaved through our lives like the people we know and love. they were the under dog, a member of our family and they showed us what was possible not just in base ball, but in america. oh, and we were proud of them, not only for baseball accomplishments, but for all their accomplishments both political and cultural. now I'll get the nay sayer's the, you're too sentimental, too over emotional, you're romanticising them too much people and the never happen, because people. the dodgers do belong in brooklyn, not just because we want are team back, (which we do) but it's more than that and many people don't understand it or have forgotten it or just don't care anymore. well, I care and I'm wit'cha so55 and my friends here in the forum pcp, shotgun shuba, and everybody else who feels the same way. oh, and our beloved insightful giant fan (friend) rzt. THE DODGERS BELONG IN BROOKLYN. that is a fact, one that may never be acted on. for whatever reason, but they do because america needs some thing as crazy and as important as a scruffy team with a proud history, if for no other reason to teach us miracles do happen, the impossible is possible and nothing is hopeless. battlin bake, the dodger dynamo

[Spirit of '55]

AMEN!

(I was born in East New York, played a lot of handball and stickball, my Dad worked an honest blue collar job and drank Schaefer Beer, we were friends with the seltzer man and the milkman, I'm scruffy and I'm damn proud of it.)

[dodger dynamo]

an amen! back at' cha, so55. battling bake the dodger dynamo

[LeoD]

I have said and feel the same way so55. I've been ridiculed and chastised for it even in this forum, but I do not give up, despite the many arguments raised against my suggestions. some people just don't under stand. geez for cryin out loud their are giants fans who under stand. the name of the borough could have been brooklyn-dodgers when I was a kid. I probably believed it was. my children are brooklyn dodger fans and they've never seen them play and they came to it after asking me questions, it wasn't a forced issue. what people don't realize is it a part of our heritage our history, family history, not just baseball history. it's america's history. what took place at 55 sullivan went beyond baseball and brooklyn. it's not confined by outfield walls or borough boundries it belongs to americans and many don't know they've lost it. the brooklyn dodgers is not now or ever just a base ball team. the brooklyn dodgers weaved through our lives like the people we know and love. they were the under dog, a member of our family and they showed us what was possible not just in base ball, but in america. oh, and we were proud of them, not only for baseball accomplishments, but for all their accomplishments both political and cultural. now I'll get the nay sayer's the, you're too sentimental, too over emotional, you're romanticising them too much people and the never happen, because people. the dodgers do belong in brooklyn, not just because we want are team back, (which we do) but it's more than that and many people don't understand it or have forgotten it or just don't care anymore. well, I care and I'm wit'cha so55 and my friends here in the forum pcp, shotgun shuba, and everybody else who feels the same way. oh, and our beloved insightful giant fan (friend) rzt. THE DODGERS BELONG IN BROOKLYN. that is a fact, one that may never be acted on. for whatever reason, but they do because america needs some thing as crazy and as important as a scruffy team with a proud history, if for no other reason to teach us miracles do happen, the impossible is possible and nothing is hopeless. battlin bake, the dodger dynamo

I have to give you credit, for never getting tired of repeating your self, and over blowing what the Brooklyn Dodgers were to MOST fans, a ball club, by time your grown up they should have stopped being a religion.

[Yankeebiscuitfan]

I have to give you credit, for never getting tired of repeating your self, and over blowing what the Brooklyn Dodgers were to MOST fans, a ball club, by time your grown up they should have stopped being a religion.

I realized what they meant to your neighbourhood after I saw a documentary. A grown up man was crying like a kid when they tore down Ebbets Field.

[LeoD]

I realized what they meant to your neighbourhood after I saw a documentary. A grown up man was crying like a kid when they tore down Ebbets Field.

You or dodger dynamo? The day of the demolition, I was walking up Bedford Ave. to the subway to go to work, didn't shed a tear, my mind was on my job , maybe if I were 15 years younger, I would have dropped a tear or two.

[Yankeebiscuitfan]

You or dodger dynamo? The day of the demolition, I was walking up Bedford Ave. to the subway to go to work, didn't shed a tear, my mind was on my job , maybe if I were 15 years younger, I would have dropped a tear or two.

Not me. I wasn't even born when they torn down Ebbets Field. The documentary showed a grown man who cried like a little kid. Thanks to that, I will always remember what this team meant to the neighbourhood of Brooklyn.

[dodger dynamo]

leo d I was in the army when they tore down ebbets field. ok, I repeat myself, but i'm consistent. again your trying to tell us we should do as you do or we're wrong. I'll do as as do, If they don't matter to you the same way they do to me so be it. you seem to think only your way is right and the rest of us are are all wrong and should get over it. no, I don't think I will, I think I'll feel exactly the same way about it as I always have and I'll believe I'm right just like you believe you're right. I don't try to tell you you're wrong. sure there's work and world peace to worry about, but I'd rather add the dodgers to the list than cut them off like a withered appendage. telling me I'm wrong or attacking me is not going to make me think like you or follow you're advice (dictates) I've tried to be nice to everybody, respectful probably to a fault, but people gotta turn this forum into some thing besides what it's supposed to be. you don't respect other people's thoughts or feelings about the dodgers unless they agree with you. well I don't agree with you and I don't care what you say or how you try to insult me or others with what you think are oh so clever witicisms. you seem the most unhappiest of us all, yet "you've gotten over it and moved on." I think you're bored or lonely and you like to instigate arguments just for the attention. now I expect another of your clever insults about how, yea, you're bored by what I've got to say. don't read em, nobody has to. I still love the brooklyn dodgers. battlin bake the dodger dynamo

[DODGER DEB]

Not me. I wasn't even born when they torn down Ebbets Field. The documentary showed a grown man who cried like a little kid. Thanks to that, I will always remember what this team meant to the neighbourhood of Brooklyn.

I, and my sister DEBS, were there on February 23, 1960 when OUR Ebbets Field was demolished. WE were also there the following week to actally see the last breath of OUR Home.

That day was one of most horrible and sad days in my life. WE cried until WE had no tears left....and then WE cried some more. On OUR knees, WE picked up what WE could carry of what was left of OUR beloved Ebbets, on the streets. WE cried a river all the way home that night, knowing WE would never again, see this place WE loved so so much!

A few years ago, I posted, in full detail, what that day was like, and how it affected US. I would direct you to it, my friend, but I can't. That post, along with a few thousand others on OUR Forum, were deleted last weekend. So much of OUR recorded history...gone!

c.

[Yankeebiscuitfan]

That post, along with a few thousand others on OUR Forum, were deleted last weekend. So much of OUR recorded history...gone!

c.

I read something about that. That is a real shame. I wish that they could recover that somehow.

How is your book going? The last time I asked you, you did not have time to work on it.

[donzblock]

The deletion of the posts is shocking. If the deletions were necessary,they should have been made selectively. I see no evidence that they were. We now see a website that practices censorship and erases the past. Both practices indicate that the webmaster has lost control of what he is doing. And by callously and clumsily erasing the past, the webmaster is telling all posters that what they are posting will disappear forever when space runs out: space, not content, is what matters. This entire enterprise has become meaningless.

[D6+]

There's a way that many of the past threads can be retrieved. Go to Google. Then in the search button, type in the following:

site:www.baseball-fever.com "brooklyn dodgers"


With many of the results, a Cached button will appear. Regardless of whether the thread was deleted or not, it will appear.

[Spirit of '55]

Friends (and LeoD):

:twocents: In response to a comment by LeoD: I don't believe that the Brooklyn Dodgers are a "religion." I believe that AMERICA is a secular idea to which each of us subscribes, no matter what else we may believe.

The Brooklyn Dodgers are a small part of the American tapestry, but important nonetheless. Yes, they were "only" a ball club, but the Statue of Liberty is "only" a copper figurine. Symbols are the ideas imbued in our environment.

Frankly, I'd rather see public figures stand up and speak from the heart about the bedrock American values of hard work, perseverance, grit, dedication, hope, courage, tolerance, (two recently unheard words, haven't you noticed?) and the willingness to try to succeed beyond all odds (all ideas represented by the Brooklyn Dodgers, by the way) than to talk about the distracting eye-off-the-ball prattle we hear about "What America needs." In 1890, the answer was a good five cent cigar. It still is, I think.

If we got back to the first set of ideas, we'd know what we "need."

Why did it take only a week to build a Liberty Ship in WWII, or take only two years to build the Empire State Building during the Depression, when energy independence is decades away and it's seven years after 9/11 and ground hasn't been broken yet on the Freedom Tower? Why did it take us eight years to go to the Moon, and why has it taken us 36 years to NOT have gone back yet? Why could this country absorb 30,000,000 immigrants in the Nineteenth century, but be hamstrung by 12 million illegals in the Twenty-First?

Riddle me this . . .

Let's hear somebody with a bully pulpit stand up and say:

"Let's BE the Brooklyn Dodgers and go for it all, whether we get it or not! And if not, there's always tomorrow, so keep going forward!"

No, the Brooklyn Dodgers are not a "religion." :candle: Rather, a way of thought.

:homeplate:

[shlevine42]

The deletion of the posts is shocking. If the deletions were necessary,they should have been made selectively. I see no evidence that they were. We now see a website that practices censorship and erases the past. Both practices indicate that the webmaster has lost control of what he is doing. And by callously and clumsily erasing the past, the webmaster is telling all posters that what they are posting will disappear forever when space runs out: space, not content, is what matters. This entire enterprise has become meaningless.

The deletion is an outrage...and a heartless betrayal not only of loyal Brooklyn Dodger fans, but of EVERY member of this site who has contributed time, energy and passion to make baseball-fever.com a success.

This week, we lost SEVENTY PERCENT of our Threads, and SIXTY PERCENT of our Posts!

There was no advance warning, no opportunity for us to prune our own Forum. Just wholesale and arbitrary surgery that removed FIVE YEARS WORTH OF OUR HISTORY!!!

And since this massacre occurred, there has been no explanation and no apology. It's as if we never existed...as if the webmaster doesn't give a damn.

Other fans may not care about the Brooklyn Dodgers, but if this could happen to what was the most popular Team Forum on this site, it could also happen to EVERY OTHER TEAM!

If other fans care at all about the history of this game...about the history of THEIR TEAM...they need to speak up and demand that Brooklyn's history be restored.

Or else they could be next!

[metfan13]

It's a message board, not the Library of Congress.

Expecting posts on a message board to last forever is never a wise thing.

Let's not turn this into Dodgers move to LA part 2.

[Yankeebiscuitfan]

It's a message board, not the Library of Congress.

Expecting posts on a message board to last forever is never a wise thing.

Let's not turn this into Dodgers move to LA part 2.

You may be right about the part of the message board. But the bold remark is kinda backstabbing don't you think? Making a remark like that is the lowest you can do here.

Just treat them with a bit more respect.

[metfan13]

You may be right about the part of the message board. But the bold remark is kinda backstabbing don't you think? Making a remark like that is the lowest you can do here.

Just treat them with a bit more respect.

them? you better whisper so they don't hear you.

I was exaggerating to make a point. Did you not read the over the top reactions to the missing posts?

[shlevine42]

It's a message board, not the Library of Congress.

Expecting posts on a message board to last forever is never a wise thing.

Let's not turn this into Dodgers move to LA part 2.

It’s true that most of this site IS a message board, and most of its contents DO have a short shelf life.

But: One of the original goals of this site was to celebrate the game’s history...and to be a place where the fans of today could come to learn about that history.

The Brooklyn Dodgers died fifty years ago, and even though they reside in The Teams of Yesteryear section, until much of their history was deleted a few days ago, this was the most popular team Forum on this site.

Rather remarkable when you consider that there are hardly a dozen of us Brooklyn fans who have a first-hand connection to the team’s history.

We certainly could never have amassed over 20,000 posts without the contribution of curious fever members from all over this site who came to our Forum to learn and who consider us their favorite place to visit.

Their participation confirms that the Brooklyn Dodgers are an integral part of baseball history.

For that history to have any instructional value, it must have no expiration date.

[metfan13]

obviously this must be taken up with whoever runs the board, but if the expectation was that this particular forum would last forvever perhaps that should have been discussed with management sometime in the past.

[Yankeebiscuitfan]

them? you better whisper so they don't hear you.
I was exaggerating to make a point. Did you not read the over the top reactions to the missing posts?

I don't know what you mean with the bold remark (probably a saying that I don't know).

I read their posts about the missing posts. But the remark about the Dodgers leaving for LA, makes clear that you do not respect these fans feelings about the loss of their team.

Of course it can happen that you disagree (otherwise this forum would be very boring). But make your points clear without being rude. Lately some more people have been jumping on them in some kind of rude way. And these Brooklyn fans do not deserve that.

[donzblock]

I don't know what you mean with the bold remark (probably a saying that I don't know).

I read their posts about the missing posts. But the remark about the Dodgers leaving for LA, makes clear that you do not respect these fans feelings about the loss of their team.

Of course it can happen that you disagree (otherwise this forum would be very boring). But make your points clear without being rude. Lately some more people have been jumping on them in some kind of rude way. And these Brooklyn fans do not deserve that.
Rudeness is part of freedom of speech and is easily dealt with. What is not easily dealt with is the fact that 70% of our history has been erased. I don't believe the Yankee forum lost 70%. I don't believe any forum should have lost 70%. Metfan13 sinks himself. The webmaster has scuttled his entire ship.

[Yankeebiscuitfan]

Rudeness is part of freedom of speech and is easily dealt with. What is not easily dealt with is the fact that 70% of our history has been erased. I don't believe the Yankee forum lost 70%. I don't believe any forum should have lost 70%. Metfan13 sinks himself. The webmaster has scuttled his entire ship.

Like it was said before, this board had the most threads and posts. If a sub forum has the most threads and posts by far, I think it is not strange that a lot will be erased with a clean up. This does not mean that I agree. I think that they should have considered what the historical importance of all this information was.

The threads on the Yankee board have been brought back to 2006. So two years of postings have been erased as well.

[Imgran]

Just imagine how annoyed the Expos fans would be. Not only did they lose a lot of their forum history but they lost their last true connection to their team by losing all those old threads from back when the Expos were in Montreal. At least with the Brooklyn Dodgers the hurt is old and you're used to it. Their wounds are still fresh.

[VIBaseball]

Has anyone asked Sean yet whether the material is still available and whether IT methods can retrieve the archive?

Then the process of selective pruning could begin...though it would take a volunteer with plenty of time on his or her hands.

There were plenty of posts that truly did have lasting meaning, and as shlevine42 noted, a good many with short shelf life. But who's to make that judgment?

I wouldn't be surprised to find that server space on this site is a legitimate issue. However, if the archive is still available, perhaps another site -- such as one of those devoted to the Brooklyn Dodgers -- could become the new repository.

[LeoD]

It looks like my dear departed friend Jackie42, was a pretty smart guy after all, when he left he took all his Brooklyn Dodger stuff with him, and man did he catch hell from all of the forum members, but he's still got some priceless photo's, where they are only his grandson knows and he's not talking.

[metfan13]

So apparently the Yankee board DID lose posts too? Sounds like a clean-up. Again, it's a message board, these things happen. If you wanted permanent storage perhaps you should have looked into that.

Crying about it as if it's something more is silly. Checking with board management to see if the posts can be restored to some other site, maybe one maintained by the Dodger fans, would be the reasonable action.

[LeoD]

So apparently the Yankee board DID lose posts too? Sounds like a clean-up. Again, it's a message board, these things happen. If you wanted permanent storage perhaps you should have looked into that.

Crying about it as if it's something more is silly. Checking with board management to see if the posts can be restored to some other site, maybe one maintained by the Dodger fans, would be the reasonable action.

As long as you don't advertise the site, that's a no, no at BBF.

[donzblock]

So apparently the Yankee board DID lose posts too? Sounds like a clean-up. Again, it's a message board, these things happen. If you wanted permanent storage perhaps you should have looked into that.

Crying about it as if it's something more is silly. Checking with board management to see if the posts can be restored to some other site, maybe one maintained by the Dodger fans, would be the reasonable action.
You are missing the point. The stuff that should have been removed was the stuff that deserved to be removed. How much thought went into what was removed? What guidelines were used to determine what would be removed? What kind of intelligence informed each decision to erase? And what is the point of mentioning that the Yankee board also lost posts? Is that supposed to suggest that the erasing was democratic and fair?

[leecemark]

--There was a server crisis and immediate action was required. Sean deleted all threads which had no activity over the past 2 years. That was the ONLY criteria. Had action not been taken BBF would have crashed and perhaps more data - data which people were actually working with - would have been lost. At a minimum, BBF would have gone offline for an extended period of time while decisions were being made on what to cut to get it back in service.
Even then it probably wouldn't have been possible to get alarge group of people involved in deciding what to save.

[DODGER DEB]

Just a few words of thanks to all members that have supported US in the past and continue to verbalize support for US at this critical time, when WE thought all OUR historical BROOKLYN DODGER threads and posts were lost.

There is a possibility that something better just may come of this terrible injustice! :crossfingers:

Stay tuned!

c.

[shlevine42]

--There was a server crisis and immediate action was required. Sean deleted all threads which had no activity over the past 2 years. That was the ONLY criteria. Had action not been taken BBF would have crashed and perhaps more data - data which people were actually working with - would have been lost. At a minimum, BBF would have gone offline for an extended period of time while decisions were being made on what to cut to get it back in service.
Even then it probably wouldn't have been possible to get alarge group of people involved in deciding what to save.

What kind of crisis?

If you were running out of storage space, there must have been a warning that you were getting close to capacity; those situations don't suddenly happen. And professionals know that there are better solutions than to "delete all threads which had no activity over the past two years."

That's like putting a bandaid on a big, serious wound. And it guarantees that in a year or two, if you don't address the capacity issue, the same thing will happen again: YOU'LL HAVE TO DELETE MORE THREADS!

The solution is to add storage capacity -- and if need be, move the archived threads that you would otherwise delete to another drive or server.

And what about those deleted files? If they were backed up, as they should have been, then they can be recreated.

[Yankeebiscuitfan]

C'mon guys. Please don't fight.

I PM'ed The Webmaster. He told me that there was a danger of the site crashing indeed. Why would he lie about this?

As Dodger Deb said: A solution may be near.

Let's wait for that, instead of keeping up the fight.

One more thing. This thread has become totally off topic. :blush:

[shlevine42]

C'mon guys. Please don't fight.

I PM'ed The Webmaster. He told me that there was a danger of the site crashing indeed. Why would he lie about this?

As Dodger Deb said: A solution may be near.

Let's wait for that, instead of keeping up the fight.

One more thing. This thread has become totally off topic. :blush:

This is not a fight.

I'm trying to understand why so many of the Dodger threads had to be deleted. So I raised some questions about the operation of this site and specifically, what the "crisis" was and how it was handled.

And for the record: No one is accusing anyone of lying.

If a solution is near, I'm all for it.

[leecemark]

What kind of crisis?

If you were running out of storage space, there must have been a warning that you were getting close to capacity; those situations don't suddenly happen. And professionals know that there are better solutions than to "delete all threads which had no activity over the past two years."

That's like putting a bandaid on a big, serious wound. And it guarantees that in a year or two, if you don't address the capacity issue, the same thing will happen again: YOU'LL HAVE TO DELETE MORE THREADS!

The solution is to add storage capacity -- and if need be, move the archived threads that you would otherwise delete to another drive or server.

And what about those deleted files? If they were backed up, as they should have been, then they can be recreated.

--I'm no technical expert. I was just relaying what Sean told the mods. Perhaps your mod could have shared that info with you earlier.
--Space costs money as do additional drives and servers. This is not the first time old threads have had to be cut for space reasons and it probably won't be the last. BBF is a free service and I expect there are some severe financial limitations to what can be done.
---If you are expecting things posted on a message board to be permanant, then you are a greater optimist than I. It would be great if it that could be the case, but honestly anything that you can't bear to lose should probably be saved elsewhere. It is the nature of a message board that threads will sink and eventually disappear once the discussion in them dies up.

[Yankeebiscuitfan]

This is not a fight.

I'm trying to understand why so many of the Dodger threads had to be deleted. So I raised some questions about the operation of this site and specifically, what the "crisis" was and how it was handled.

And for the record: No one is accusing anyone of lying.

If a solution is near, I'm all for it.

Maybe I should have said it in a different way.

But in some posts I felt that there was some doubt about the necessity of the deletion.

The way things are discussed, I think it comes close to a fight.

[donzblock]

Maybe I should have said it in a different way.

But in some posts I felt that there was some doubt about the necessity of the deletion.

The way things are discussed, I think it comes close to a fight.
A disagreement is not a fight, but even if this disagreement were, so what? There are different opinions being expressed here--obviously. Why are you calling attention to that?

[DODGER DEB]

Can I please ask everyone to take a step back, for just a little while!

WE all want the same thing, the restoration of OUR BROOKLYN DODGER archives between 2002 and 2006. There just might be a way to accomplish this.

Can I ask for all your patience while I work on a possible solution? I really would appreciate it.

In the meantime, perhaps we should get back on topic of this thread. For now, it will do all of US some good, including myself.

c.

[shlevine42]

--I'm no technical expert. I was just relaying what Sean told the mods. Perhaps your mod could have shared that info with you earlier.
--Space costs money as do additional drives and servers. This is not the first time old threads have had to be cut for space reasons and it probably won't be the last. BBF is a free service and I expect there are some severe financial limitations to what can be done.
---If you are expecting things posted on a message board to be permanant, then you are a greater optimist than I. It would be great if it that could be the case, but honestly anything that you can't bear to lose should probably be saved elsewhere. It is the nature of a message board that threads will sink and eventually disappear once the discussion in them dies up.

Your reply proves my point.

You note that “this is not the first time that threads had to be cut for space reasons, and it probably won’t be the last.”

That should tell you that deleting threads is nothing more than a temporary fix and NOT the solution to the problem.

I’m no expert either, but I do know that other companies who run into a storage problem on their servers don’t resort to deleting historical information. Storage today is cheaper than it’s ever been, so they add another drive. Increase capacity. Find another server. ANYTHING but destroy precious data!

And that’s especially relevant for a site that claims to be a place where “the history of yesterday is preserved for tomorrow.”

[metfan13]

This is not a fight.

I'm trying to understand why so many of the Dodger threads had to be deleted. So I raised some questions about the operation of this site and specifically, what the "crisis" was and how it was handled.

And for the record: No one is accusing anyone of lying.

If a solution is near, I'm all for it.

It's simple. More were deleted because more had no activity for 2 years. Expecting the board managers to wade through thousands of threads to determine which should be kept and which deleted, while their baord is crashing around them, is kind of absurd.

But it's sounding like maybe something can be done.

[metfan13]

Your reply proves my point.

You note that “this is not the first time that threads had to be cut for space reasons, and it probably won’t be the last.”

That should tell you that deleting threads is nothing more than a temporary fix and NOT the solution to the problem.

I’m no expert either, but I do know that other companies who run into a storage problem on their servers don’t resort to deleting historical information. Storage today is cheaper than it’s ever been, so they add another drive. Increase capacity. Find another server. ANYTHING but destroy precious data!

And that’s especially relevant for a site that claims to be a place where “the history of yesterday is preserved for tomorrow.”

It's a message board, not the national archives or a company's historical data.

[donzblock]

It's a message board, not the national archives or a company's historical data.
By distorting Shlevine42's point, you ignore his point. And you also denigrate the purpose of this website. Do you seriously believe that Baseball Fever is merely a message board?

[VIBaseball]

To get back on topic, I'll draw a parallel with the New York Football Giants. There's a team that played in Yale Bowl, of all places, while their original home Yankee Stadium was being renovated. Then when Giants Stadium opened up in the Meadowlands, the franchise retained its fan base, or at least a large portion thereof.

No doubt the Brooklyn fans' mindset was at least somewhat different, but I tend to think that a lot of people could and would have adjusted. In particular, the folks who moved from Brooklyn out to Nassau could well have been inclined to drive to Flushing Meadows. When did the LIRR stop come in there?

PS: Professor and Mr. Levine -- I have started a thread over at Web Improvements and Site Ideas. There we may discuss the themes of storage space and the useful lifespan of posts on this site to our heart's content. :)

[Yankeebiscuitfan]

Thank you for returning to the thread's topic again VIBaseball.

[metfan13]

By distorting Shlevine42's point, you ignore his point. And you also denigrate the purpose of this website. Do you seriously believe that Baseball Fever is merely a message board?

Based on what happened this week, yes.

It's an exceptional message board, but still a message board, with moderators governing their forums, people posting opinions and research, varying levels of sense being made by some posters, and limits to how much can be stored on the servers.

[donzblock]

So would I have supported the Dodgers in Queens? Of course. And they would have continued to call themselves the Brooklyn Dodgers, and that would have made the Queensburgers furious, and that would have made it even more satisfying.

A parallel? I've had season tickets for the New York Giants since 1961 and have kept them despite their move to Jersey. However, my allegiance has been only to the seats. When the Giants shifted to Jersey, I became an Eagles' fan. I go to one game a year and sell the remaining seats. So has the Jersey move of the football Giants been for me a parallel to a hypothetical Queens move for the Brooklyn Dodgers? No. Queens is next door to Brooklyn. New Jersey is another country: even the mosquitoes are different. A person cannot even pump his own gas in Jersey. The pizza is better in Jersey once you hit New Brunswick. Essentially, New Jersey is a conduit linking Pennsylvania to New York. It is an area that is gradually becoming the Jersey Turnpike, which once had 4 lanes and now has 12+ and counting. In 20 years, every town in Jersey will be an exit/entrance for the turnpike, and the entire state will be a toll road.

Yes, I would have supported the Dodgers in Queens, and eventually the team would have moved back to Brooklyn once the new owners discovered the potential of Coney Island.

Now I think all would agree that this post is not in any way, shape, or form a message.