What is a compiler?

[plask_stirlac]

I think this was Keith Law, but it was someone who had a long and productive career and then had a lot of stats.

That's good! Okay, we have to look at a wide array of stats, but even if a guy comes out to be pretty average over time like Jeff Suppan, average is valuable. If those guys go down that probably means below average replacements. Cleveland definitely was happy to have Westbrook and Byrd even as average.

Is the fear just that since they don't have a season with an actual MVP award or three outlier seasons from age 24-28 or so, that they can't have that one big year to help win the World Series? Don't World Series teams have players besides stars? Wakefield and Drew helped the Red Sox, especially since Pena regressed (well Drew did but was better). Suppan and Eckstein were integral for the Cards.

Also, how can a player like Rizzuto get HOF credit for being average with one outlier season? Blyleven picked some good teams, too: two rings. I know that's one we here don't agree with.

Maybe the vets let in Morris and Blyleven?

[Calif_Eagle]

( Original post deleted and moved to start a new thread, instead. ) Re compliers: Harold Baines as suggested first by Leecemark was/is the "Babe Ruth of compilers". To me a compiler is a player that amasses huge career numbers but isnt HOF material. Doc Cramer from RuthMayBond's post is also an excellent example. Don Sutton would be one, but he made the HOF. Vada Pinson is another good example, also.

[leecemark]

--A compiler is someone who ends up with career numbers suggestive of a Hall of Fame player with few, if any, truely great seasons. He is a player who neve looked like a Hall of Famer while active who kind of looks like one after he is eligible (or as he nears retirement). I don't think there are alot of guys in that category because its difficult to keep a job long enough to get close to 3,000 hits or 500 HR or 300 wins or whatever without being a great player at some point.
--These guys do exist though. One great example is Harold Baines. He is nowhere close to being a HoFer IMO, but his career counting numbers would not look our of place in Cooperstown.

[plask_stirlac]

Baines does not have sufficient numbers that really matter. 120 OPS+. Only one season with a .400 OBP or better, and that's not adjusted but just once is low. He isn't that good as a DH.

Is Blyleven a compiler or are we admitting he's better? Can Stan Musial or Hank Aaron be a compiler plus great seasons?

If a player has two really good months, two good, and two bad ones to finish as "good" is he better than a player with six good months?

[dgarza]

--A compiler is someone who ends up with career numbers suggestive of a Hall of Fame player with few, if any, truely great seasons.
I followed you until you got to the Hall.
I would as a compiler is someone who ends up with career numbers which could easy lead a person to think that player was greater than he actually was (especially in isolated skills/areas), whose total career numbers or isolated career numbers can lead to an overrating of that player.
That player might have a few great years or might have none. That player will have not have many great years.
HOFer can be compilers. Lou Brock was a compiler of 3023 hits. Dave Winfield might be a better compiler of hits (3110/193 high).
Don Sutton and his 324 wins (21 high).
Compilers can also be non-HOFer, such as Harold Baines, Rusty Staub, and Frank Tanana.

[Brad Harris]

--A compiler is someone who ends up with career numbers suggestive of a Hall of Fame player with few, if any, truely great seasons. He is a player who neve looked like a Hall of Famer while active who kind of looks like one after he is eligible (or as he nears retirement). I don't think there are alot of guys in that category because its difficult to keep a job long enough to get close to 3,000 hits or 500 HR or 300 wins or whatever without being a great player at some point.
--These guys do exist though. One great example is Harold Baines. He is nowhere close to being a HoFer IMO, but his career counting numbers would not look our of place in Cooperstown.

You beat me to it. :P

[iPod]

Baines does not have sufficient numbers that really matter. 120 OPS+. Only one season with a .400 OBP or better, and that's not adjusted but just once is low. He isn't that good as a DH.


The fact that he had 2866 hits, 384 HR, 1628 RBI, but only a 120 OPS+ is exactly what proves he was a compiler. He only had one season above a .400 OBP? Right, he was a compiler. What aren't you getting here?

[Honus Wagner Rules]

--A compiler is someone who ends up with career numbers suggestive of a Hall of Fame player with few, if any, truely great seasons. He is a player who neve looked like a Hall of Famer while active who kind of looks like one after he is eligible (or as he nears retirement). I don't think there are alot of guys in that category because its difficult to keep a job long enough to get close to 3,000 hits or 500 HR or 300 wins or whatever without being a great player at some point.
--These guys do exist though. One great example is Harold Baines. He is nowhere close to being a HoFer IMO, but his career counting numbers would not look our of place in Cooperstown.

Another guy is Johnny Damon. He could end up with over 3,000 hits AND over 2,000 runs scored.

[Brad Harris]

Minus the steals, we'd think of Lou Brock in this category.

Had he not played on great teams, I think Tony Perez is another Harold Baines, too.

[Paul Wendt]

So Jeff Reardon compiled the saves record (since broken).
Bob Boone compiled the catcher games (since broken).
Bill Buckner compiled something less than Harold Baines.

Was Chili Davis too good at his best?

Is Omar Vizquel a compiler? Was Luis Aparicio?

[RuthMayBond]

Who was a compiler? See
Cramer, Doc

[digglahhh]

Another aspect of compiling can be a situation that allows you to continue to accrue stats that is not available to every one.

Hitting at slightly above league average as a DH in the twilight of your career is compiling.

Bouncing around to teams whose options are worse than you are to continue your career is compiling.

Making yourself a player/manager and inserting yourself at 1B despite putting up a sub 100 OPS+ is compiling, but it's not betting on baseball...

A prolonged decline is one form of the compiler...

[willshad]

do guys like Yaz and Ripken qualify as compilers? They had looong careers, but only 3 or maybe 4 seasons at most where they were really 'great'. The reslut is that their counting stats have them among players who were much better than them. I consider them to be compilers as well.

[digglahhh]

Willshad,

I'd say they kinda count.

I don't think "compiling" is something endemic to non-HOF players.

Reggie Jackson did some compiling at the end of his career too.

But Yaz and Ripken didn't only have a few great seasons, they also had many very good seasons. Arguments can be made in both of their cases that they deserve to be in the running for best player in the game over a substantial chunk of seasons.

In a sense, you can lump in lots of guys as compilers of sorts. Rickey Henderson? You could say that Frank Thomas is compiling now, I guess? Is Mike Piazza in the process of compliling?

Basically, when former big names are no longer sought after on the open market, it's clear they are in the compiling stage.

[Otis Nixon's Bodyguard]

I think a compiler is anyone who, based on the length of their career, has career numbers that make them look better than they actually were. These guys strung together many good seasons, but had few great ones. I wouldn't exclude Hall of Famers, even deserving ones, from this label. Don Sutton certainly qualifies. I suppose that, if you stretch that definition, Yaz and Ripken could be considered compilers - although they each won MVPs, they also each had a lot of sub .300/20-25 HR seasons. Heck, even Nolan Ryan could be considered one.

[holyroman]

I also think that this does not take away from a hall of famer's career. One of my favorite players some might say was a compiler. Craig Biggio. I don't think his peak was any shorter or less impressive than other hall of famer's. I think with Craig though, he could have retired before his last year where he was obviously in a decline stage, and still been a hall of famer without 3000 hits (which was a stated goal of his to do for his family and fans.

[willshad]

Ripken is a compliner because his lifetime stats dont reflect how good he really was overall for his career. 3000 hits, 430 homers, 1700 RBI, with an OPS+ of 112? Sure he had a good peak, but overall he was no better than Harold Baines at the plate, probably worse.

[Captain Cold Nose]

Ripken is a compliner because his lifetime stats dont reflect how good he really was overall for his career. 3000 hits, 430 homers, 1700 RBI, with an OPS+ of 112? Sure he had a good peak, but overall he was no better than Harold Baines at the plate, probably worse.

Remember, he was a shortstop. For his position, those are beyond stellar.

[jjpm74]

What about Rickey Henderson? Yes, the guy was arguably one of the best leadoff hitters of all time, but he also hung around at the end of his career just so he could break records and couldn't care less about how the teams he was on were doing.

It was poetic justice when he boke the stolen bases record and declared himself the greatest player in baseball the same day Nolan Ryan pitched a no-hitter that overshadowed his achievement. :rofl:

[Captain Cold Nose]

What about Rickey Henderson? Yes, the guy was arguably one of the best leadoff hitters of all time, but he also hung around at the end of his career just so he could break records and couldn't care less about how the teams he was on were doing.

It was poetic justice when he boke the stolen bases record and declared himself the greatest player in baseball the same day Nolan Ryan pitched a no-hitter that overshadowed his achievement. :rofl:

Couldn't he have? I've heard plenty about how helpful he was with younger players during the last few years.

He hung around because he felt he could still play. It's why he continued in the minors for a few years.

[jjpm74]

Couldn't he have? I've heard plenty about how helpful he was with younger players during the last few years.

He hung around because he felt he could still play. It's why he continued in the minors for a few years.


What I remember of his late career is a casual jog down the first base line that cost the Mets a win and resulted in them dumping him and as a coach developing Jose Reyes from a great prospect to a sub par performer with an attitude problem. The guy had a lot of talent, but he also has a very negative attitude.

[Captain Cold Nose]

What I remember of his late career is a casual jog down the first base line that cost the Mets a win and resulted in them dumping him and as a coach developing Jose Reyes from a great prospect to a sub par performer with an attitude problem. The guy had a lot of talent, but he also has a very negative attitude.

He has a Rickey attitude. it's not positive or negative. It's Rickey.

So it's really Henderson's fault Reyes isn't the all-star talent he was made out to be? Guess Reyes is off the hook, then.

[jjpm74]

So it's really Henderson's fault Reyes isn't the all-star talent he was made out to be? Guess Reyes is off the hook, then.

No. Rickey is responsible for the negative attitude and overall laziness. Neither of those traits were there before Rickey gave Reyes his words of wisdom, but that's a great job you did twisting around what I said. :)

[Honus Wagner Rules]

No. Rickey is responsible for the negative attitude and overall laziness. Neither of those traits were there before Rickey gave Reyes his words of wisdom, but that's a great job you did twisting around what I said. :)

Unless you know Reyes personally this is just speculation.

[Captain Cold Nose]

Unless you know Reyes personally this is just speculation.

Not to mention giving a bit too much credit to Henderson in regards to Reyes's development.

[digglahhh]

No. Rickey is responsible for the negative attitude and overall laziness. Neither of those traits were there before Rickey gave Reyes his words of wisdom, but that's a great job you did twisting around what I said. :)

Correlation vs. Causality.

To me, it seemed like Reyes was dealing poorly with his personal and his team's adversity. The laziness seemed more like an act of frustration than him being flippant.

Such laziness is not forgivable either, but it is circumstantial, not an omnipresent part of Reyes' game or personality. Is it your contention that Rickey was encouraging Reyes not to run out pop-ups or something.

Young stars are strangers to adversity, perhaps Rickey could have helped Reyes better deal with it, but I'm extremely reluctant to surmise that Rickey was encouraging the bad habit Reyes exhibited.