Ken Boyer

[Cowtipper]

Over a span of 15 seasons, 3B Ken Boyer hit .287 with 282 home runs and 1141 RBI. All told, he was an 11 time All-Star, although he was an All-Star 'twice' a few seasons in a row. A five time Gold Glove winner, Boyer was the 1964 MVP when he hit .295 with 24 home runs and 119 RBI.

Not one of the players most similar statistically to Boyer is in the Hall of Fame - the most similar player to Boyer is Bobby Bonilla. However, it should be noted that Boyer played much of his career in the second dead ball era.

Boyer has good grey ink - 138 - while the average Hall of Famer's is 144. He ranks 116th all-time in grey ink.

So, what do you think? Should Ken Boyer be in the Hall of Fame?

[jjpm74]

Boyer is one of those players who was very good but not great. In his even in his era. I don't think the guy belongs in the HOF.

[Fuzzy Bear]

Yes to Boyer, but Santo ranks ahead of him.

[BoofBonser26]

Boyer has good grey ink - 138 - while the average Hall of Famer's is 144. He ranks 116th all-time in grey ink.

So, what do you think? Should Ken Boyer be in the Hall of Fame?
Grey ink is a terrible way to evaluate HOFers. It's based on a flawed system.

As for Boyer, his career was just OK. 116 OPS+, very bad for a HOFer. Low counting numbers. Bad base-stealer. Short peak. Good player. Not a HOFer.

[Paul Wendt]

Who are the candidates?

Among maybe-third basemen,
let me set aside Deacon White and Joe Torre as catchers; Edgar Martinez as a designated hitter

There are at least five with very long careers for their times:
Lave Cross, Tommy Leach, Graig Nettles, Buddy Bell, Darrell Evans

merely long careers, average for a Hall of Fame player:
Ezra Sutton, Billy Nash, Stan Hack, Bob Elliott, Eddie Yost, Ken Boyer, Ron Santo, Sal Bando, Ron Cey, Robin Ventura

on the short side:
Ed Williamson, Bill Bradley, Heinie Groh,

very short:
John McGraw, Al Rosen, Bob Horner

Anyone else?

That is 21 but McGraw is in the Hall of Fame as a manager, eligible only for some alternative Halls; only 20 eligible for Cooperstown. If you want 25, add Arlie Latham, Larry Gardner, Eddie Yost, Matt Williams, Gary Gaetti.

Evans, Santo, and Groh must be ranked ahead of Boyer.
There seems to be a consensus among sabrmetrically inclined people to rank Hack before Boyer.

I think Nash, Elliott, Boyer, Cey and Ventura are comparable players. I suppose that Cey was a good fielder, lacking the reputation because of his unconventional body type.

At the moment I would put that quintet in the middle of the pack, behind Leach, Nettles, and Sutton. From a peakster perspective, it would be the middle of the pack behind Williamson and Rosen (and maybe Sutton again).

Boyer is somewhere from #4 to #18, ahead of Bradley and Horner.

[Mike Hoban]

Ken Boyer does not have HOF numbers - not even close.

According to the NEWS HOF Gauge, here are the players whose career value is closest to Boyer.

Heinie Groh 250
Bob Elliott 249
Heinie Manush 248
Graig Nettles 248
Luis Gonzalez 247
Don Mattingly 247
Ken Boyer 246
Harry Hooper 246
Vern Stephens 246
Bob Johnson 245
Dale Murphy 245
Jim Rice 245

Some good players here - but no GREAT players. None of these players had a career deserving of the Hall of Fame.

Author of BASEBALL'S BEST: The TRUE Hall of Famers

[leecemark]

==I'd probably vote for half the guys on your list Mike. Two I wouldn't are the ones who actually are in the Hall though.

[Freakshow]

Ken Boyer does not have HOF numbers - not even close.

According to the NEWS HOF Gauge, here are the players whose career value is closest to Boyer.

Heinie Groh 250
Bob Elliott 249
Heinie Manush 248
Graig Nettles 248
Luis Gonzalez 247
Don Mattingly 247
Ken Boyer 246
Harry Hooper 246
Vern Stephens 246
Bob Johnson 245
Dale Murphy 245
Jim Rice 245

Some good players here - but no GREAT players. None of these players had a career deserving of the Hall of Fame.

None of these players had a career deserving of the Hall of Fame.
These are EXACTLY the sort of players that comprise the Hall's lower tier. Ranking in this company is hardly a disqualifier. Few are what I would consider to be among the Hall's more egregious mistakes.

In addition, two key elements this look at Boyer entirely fails to consider.

1) The NL in Boyer's time was a MUCH stronger league than the AL, largely due to the AL's lagging to racially integrate.

2) Boyer lost his age 21-22 seasons to military service. He came back and ran roughshod over the Texas League competition in 1954 before hitting the ground running in his MLB career in 1955. I credit him with 1+ years for this lost time.

[J W]

Definite, absolute yes.

From the official website:

There are 10 (ten) MLB third baseman in Cooperstown. This includes George Kell and Freddie Lindstrom. Three Negro League third basemen (Ray Dandridge, Judy Johnson, Jud Wilson) also made it.

- There are 13 Cs in Coopertown, and three NLers
- There are 17 2Bmen in Cooperstown, and one NLer
- There are 18 LFers in Cooperstown, and one NLer
- There are 18 1Bmen in Cooperstown, and three NLers
- There are 19 CFers in Cooperstown, and six NLers
- There are 21 RFers in Cooperstown, all MLB
- There are 21 SSs in Cooperstown, and two NLers

Positions are accounted for pretty evenly in the HOF except for 3B and C. I'm ok with a little disparity but the lack of hot-corner players is eye-opening. I would like to see a HOF with five more 3Bmen in it, and Boyer is one of those. Of course we have to start with Ron Santo.

[Paul Wendt]

In my desktop copy of the baseball database lahman5.4 (thru 2006) I have a function that generates full seasons played in the field by position. Full seasons are shares of team games played so this measure adjusts for differences both in length of schedule and in games not played. Here are the leaders at third base, 24 players with 11 or more full seasons. Ken Boyer is #24.

full seasons equiv. Fname Lname
17.8198808543384 Brooks Robinson
15.2480239439756 Graig Nettles
14.2071877457201 Gary Gaetti
14.0060642063618 Wade Boggs
13.9163511022925 Mike Schmidt
13.8326096124947 Eddie Mathews
13.7513432577252 Buddy Bell
13.156911984086 Ron Santo
13.0735450088978 Tim Wallach
12.9672098979354 Eddie Yost
12.531478960067 Ron Cey
12.305530667305 Aurelio Rodriguez
12.0717856436968 Pie Traynor
11.9909192509949 Arlie Latham
11.9187789708376 Lave Cross
11.8660598918796 Stan Hack
11.7700210995972 Robin Ventura
11.7380170188844 Sal Bando
11.6316487491131 Ezra Sutton
11.5910967290401 Billy Nash
11.5496441870928 Jimmy Collins
11.5001692511141 Pinky Higgins
11.3191931694746 Terry Pendleton
11.1790018565953 Ken Boyer

The 2.6-season gap at the top is unique. There is no other 2-season gap in the other lists by position. Brooks Robinson is fourth at any position behind Cobb, Anson, and Mays; third behind Anson and Mays if left, center, and right are counted separately.